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JOINT COMMITTEE ON COMMUNICATIONS, MARINE AND NATURAL RESOURCES debate -
Wednesday, 18 May 2005

Summary Report on Visit to Argentina and Chile.

In November 2002, the joint committee hosted a delegation from the Chilean Parliament and the discussion centred on the dumping of salmon as it affected the EU, including Ireland, and Norway. At the meeting a general invitation was issued to the Chairman to visit Chile to see the Chilean salmon farming industry at first hand. On 5 November 2003, following a "Prime Time" programme in October, the joint committee conducted a review of the aquaculture industry. This progressed to the point where, at the joint committee meeting of 9 February 2005, a sub-committee on salmon drift netting, draft netting and angling was set up. This sub-committee held a full-day hearing on 5 April, engaging all parties to the salmon debate.

As part of the process of completing a report, the joint committee agreed to accept the invitation to visit Chile to see the salmon aquaculture industry at first hand. This was considered particularly timely as, on 22 April, the Minister of State at the Department of Communications, Marine and Natural Resources, Deputy Gallagher, welcomed the European Commission's agreement to initiate trade defence anti-dumping measures against Norwegian imports of farmed salmon. These are in the form of ad valorem duties to be applied to Norwegian imports to the Community, ranging between 6.8% and 24.5%. The measures came into effect on Wednesday, 27 April 2005.

On 6 January 2005, the Minister of State launched the Government's ports policy statement. He said the policy would provide the framework for the efficient operation of Irish ports. Ports have clear commercial mandates and the challenge for them is to realise their full commercial potential so they can provide adequate infrastructure and services to meet customer needs. Following this, the joint committee, at its meeting of 9 February 2005, commenced its process of scrutinising COM (2004) 654, a proposal for a directive of the European Parliament and the Council on market access to port services. At the meeting, IBEC expressed its grave concerns in regard to the proposed directive, particularly in regard to the duration of authorisations as contained in Article 12. Having regard to this concern and the Government's policy statement on ports, and in light of the capacity and expansion issues facing both Cork Port and Dublin Port, together with the proposal to build a new Drogheda port to be sited in Balbriggan, the committee considered it prudent to visit the Argentinian port of Buenos Aires, which has recently reclaimed 32 hectares, and the port of Rosario, the primary bulk shipping port of Argentina. To augment this work, the committee agreed to examine the Argentinian energy sector, having particular regard to renewables and grid construction and renewal.

The Government's new ports policy statement, in conjunction with COM (2004) 654, has major implications for Ireland as both Dublin and Cork ports are at capacity. The vast majority of all Irish imports and exports go through the ports system and therefore the Irish ports are vital to the economy.

The expansion of Dublin Port can only be achieved by reclaiming land and this is being objected to on environmental grounds. Both Cork Port and Dublin Port deal with bulk liquid and solids and container traffic.

Buenos Aires has the same capacity problems as Dublin and has expanded by reclaiming 30 hectares. Buenos Aires Port mainly deals with container traffic, while Rosario Port deals with bulks, grain and liquids. The committee wanted to see, in the context of an expanded Dublin Port or a new port for Drogheda sited in Balbriggan, if Ireland should dedicate one port for bulks, like Rosario, and one port for containers, like Buenos Aires, if there are economies, management or infrastructural issues to be addressed and if a green field option allowing both bulk and container traffic should be considered.

In the context of COM (2004) 654, which is of concern to IBEC, the committee was keen to examine the concession model used in Argentina. This model came about when legislation was introduced in 1992 that allowed ports to be taken out of state operation. Since then, 13 years have elapsed and it was timely to see how this model has worked. Chile has also set up a concession model but this is a more recent development.

Argentina has a unique profile in terms of the fuel mix and grid infrastructure for energy. A total of 25% of the population live in 2% of the country and Argentina generates over 50% of its electricity from hydroelectric sources. It is noted that Latin America produces 22% of the world's hydropower. Argentina has a potential huge wind resource in Patagonia, and with a sub-tropical climate in the north, photovoltaic energy can be generated.

Owing to the recent economic climate and the currency crisis, Argentina has not made any major investment in its national grid, but is now proposing such an investment. In Ireland the ESB is investing €3 billion in strengthening and renewing the national grid. Therefore, it is timely to see how Argentina is accommodating renewable energy in its grid structure. The new north-south and east-west distribution network work on the Argentine grid will accommodate renewables, a matter that is debatable in the case of the ESB.

Argentina has a better fuel mix than Ireland and is probably the only country to commission a new nuclear generating plant in 2005. Its energy comes from a mix of nuclear, wind, oil, gas and hydroelectric sources. Argentina, with soya production running at over 70 million tonnes, proposes to have 3% of the energy mix come from biofuels and this will have a major impact on the energy demand from the transport sector, particularly when 25% of the population lives in 2% of the country.

Ireland's energy mix is out of balance compared to world and EU norms. EU levels run at carbon fuel usage in the 50-60% range and several EU countries, such as France, have a nuclear generating capacity, with renewables such as hydroelectricity in the Nordic countries and photovoltaic energy in the Mediterranean countries adding to the mix. In Ireland we have an 87% dependency on carbon fuels for both generation and transport and our position at the end of the supply chain is a serious cause for concern.

The national development plan provided a strong Government support framework for the development of aquaculture in Ireland up to 2006. In particular, the aquaculture measure of the NDP provides Exchequer and EU grant supports amounting to €30.7 million for the development of aquaculture projects over the life of the plan. Under the measure, Irish farmed salmon production is targeted to increase from 18,000 tonnes in 2000 to 38,000 tonnes in 2006. In reality, however, in 2004 production will run out at just over 14,000 tonnes and for 2005 it is anticipated that the industry will only produce 12,000 tonnes.

In terms of State and EU investment, and considering the hold that salmon has on the Irish psyche, it was vital that the delegation examine the salmon industry in Chile. It should be noted that in 1980 the production of farmed salmon in Chile was 50 tonnes and by 2004 this had increased to the point where Chile is now the largest producer of farmed salmon in the world, with production running at in excess of 750,000 tonnes. Considering the foregoing, it was essential that the delegation see the Chilean salmon farming industry first hand and so accepted the invitation of the Chilean Parliamentary Committee for Fishing and Aquaculture to meet and exchange views relevant to both countries.

Valparaiso is the largest port on the western seaboard in South America, a gateway access for Argentine and Chilean produce to Far East markets. As with Argentina, which in 1992 introduced legislation to permit the privatisation of its state-run ports system by way of the concession model, Chile took the same route in 2002. For the delegation it was illustrative to see, compare and contrast the two models in the context of the proposed EU directive in COM (2004) 654, which we are currently considering.

I will give the joint committee a summary report of the work undertaken during the visit to Argentina and Chile. It is important to note that we had 25 formal and informal meetings and engagements with the different public and state bodies.

Our first public engagement was at the Browne Institute. This was important in the light of next year being the 150th anniversary of the death of Admiral Browne, a native of Foxford in County Mayo and revered by the Argentines as the founder of the Argentine Navy. The delegation received a tour of the Browne museum and a presentation on the Irish-Argentine celebrations that are planned to mark the event, which will include a visit by a vessel from the Irish Naval Service.

The next visit was to the Hurling Club of Buenos Aires. This is one of the most important links for the Irish-Argentine community. The last St. Patrick's Day celebration saw over 1,200 people join in the club celebrations. While the club no longer plays hurling — it ceased during World War II as hurleys could not be imported from Ireland — the club maintains its strong Irish connections and now caters for the youth of the area by providing rugby and hockey facilities. In Argentina, 400,000 people claim Irish descent and want stronger ties with Ireland.

The delegation had a private meeting with Dr. Carlos Contepomi and through Deputy Perry, at the request of Mr. John Scannlon, visited St. Brendan's College. This was arranged as the scheduled meetings were re-scheduled owing to the High Court ruling on the Judge Curtin appeal, which is related to the work of the sub-committee chaired by Deputy O'Donovan, a member of the delegation.

Accompanied by the ambassador, we had a meeting with Señor Blanco and the Parliamentary Committee on Energy and Fuels. This meeting and the tour of the Department was scheduled to last one hour, but in the event it lasted over three hours.

There was a meeting with Señor Paragati, Director of Development, Secretaria of Energy, and this dealt with the work that Argentina is doing on developing biofuels. Argentina exports over 70 million tonnes of soya and the committee was apprised of the projects being supported to develop biofuels. The target is that by 2010 Argentina will produce 3% of its fuel from biofuel sources. As over 25% of the population live in less than 2% of the land mass, and as this is centred in Buenos Aires, this would be considered a huge advance for biofuels which, by virtue of this synergy, would have a major impact on the transport sector.

We held a meeting with Señor Leguiza, Director of Planning, Secretaria of Energy. The meeting dealt with the work that Argentina is doing on developing and renewing its electricity grid. Over 50% of electricity is from hydroelectricity, but with over 25% of the population living in less than 2% of the land mass, the distribution grid and transmission grid are no longer capable of supporting economic development. Owing to the recent economic and currency crises Argentina has not made the necessary investment in the grid infrastructure and this is now being addressed in the development of a north-south and east-west axis for the transmission grid, together with interconnections to Brazil that would deliver up to 4,200 megawatts. This was very informative in terms of the €3 billion investment being made by the ESB. However, in Argentina the grid infrastructure, both transmission and distribution, is being developed on the basis of being able to take renewable energy sources. This may be a function of the fact that Argentina has a land mass greater than the 25 member states of the EU, in which instance a grid of such magnitude could accommodate greater wind energy variability.

The delegation had a private meeting with Professor of Economics Robert A. Mundell of Columbia University, Nobel Laureate in Economics in 1999. We then travelled 300 km to the port of Rosario and met with ENAPRO, the port authority for Rosario. The delegation met the president of the port authority of Puerto Rosario, Mr. Juan Carlos Venesia, Dr. Juan Carlos Retamero and Ms. Zulma Dinelli. Mr. Venesia gave a presentation on the public private structure and work of the port and took the delegation on a tour of the public port facilities.

Rosario port deals mainly with bulks, namely, grain and liquids, and has very little dealing with containers. At Terminal Puerto Rosario private port facility in Rosario, operated under a concession, Mr. Guillermo Salazar Boero, president of Terminal Puerto Rosario, gave the delegation a presentation on how, as a concession holder, it operates within the port. This was followed by a tour of the private port facilities.

The delegation returned to Buenos Aires for a buffet dinner with members of the Argentine-Irish Community hosted by the ambassador, Mr. Ken Thompson, and Mrs. Thompson. As this is the largest Irish community in the non-English speaking world, this was considered a valuable function linking Ireland with the Irish-Argentinian community.

There was a meeting with Buenos Aires port officials and the general manager, Mr. José A. Carrea, who gave the delegation a presentation on the public private structure and work of the port and took the delegation on a tour of the public port facilities. The port of Buenos Aires deals mainly with containers and a small amount of bulk grain and liquids. However, the port also deals with cruise ships and has a passenger terminal.

The delegation met with Terminales Portuarias Argentinas, TPA, a private port facility operated under a concession from the port of Buenos Aires. Captain Ricardo H. Ferrera gave a presentation to the delegation on the TPA operation of the port, including its passenger terminal. TPA operates as part of the P&O worldwide operation. This was followed by a tour of the port and passenger terminal.

The delegation had a private meeting with Antonio J. Zuidwijk on his experience of port administration and a separate private meeting with Mr. Pat O'Leary of Liebherr Cranes Ltd., a Killarney-based company which employs 400 people and which exports container cranes worldwide, with sales worth €18 million to Argentina to date. At that time it was installing a new crane worth €5 million.

On Sunday lunchtime the delegation travelled to Puerto Montt via Santiago arriving in Puerto Montt at 9 p.m. At a meeting with Salmon Chile, Ms Zorzano gave a presentation to the delegation on the work of Salmon Chile and how the salmon farming industry was developed in Chile. There was a meeting with Ms Soledad Zorzano, ProChile, the government support agency that leads the export drive for Chilean manufactured products. This is based in the tenth region of Chile, of which Puerto Montt is capital, and is dominated by the salmon industry.

The delegation visited the AquaChile salmon processing facility, which combines hatcheries, farming and processing. This one processing facility handles 45,000 tonnes of salmon per annum, three times the annual Irish production. This was a very impressive sight. The facilities are the best the delegation has seen, including the fish processing facilities which the delegation saw some weeks previously in Killybegs. Mr. Christian Meyer and Mr. Alfonso Marquez de la Plata made a presentation to the delegation on AquaChile and gave the delegation a tour of the processing facility which employs over 400 on two shifts over five and a half days totalling 44 hours per week, per worker.

The delegation paid a courtesy call to the Mayor of Puerto Montt, Mr. Rabin Dranat Quinteres, and met with Wavemaster Chile, which manufactures fish cages used in the aquaculture industry, and is in partnership with Wavemaster Ireland based in Meath. The partnership has proved so successful that in the last five years, since the partnership was formed, Wavemaster Chile has developed its market share from 5% or 10% to 70%. Brothers Roberto and Renato Salas made a presentation to the delegation on Wavemaster Chile and took the delegation on the tour of their manufacturing facility which employs over 100 people.

At lunchtime the delegation travelled to Santiago. At 8 a.m. the next morning the delegation drove to Valparaiso and met with parliament's fisheries and aquaculture committee. This meeting was scheduled for one hour but the discussion ranged over the full fishing industry including the commercial fishing industry, the aquaculture industry and common interests such as stock management and control. The meeting lasted over two and half hours.

Following this, the delegation met the president of the senate and members of the senate fisheries committee. The president of the senate hosted lunch in honour of the delegation, the first parliamentary delegation ever to visit the parliament since it was established in Valparaiso. This was followed by a tour of the parliament. The following morning the delegation met port of Valparaiso director, Mr. Enrique Morales, who made a presentation to the delegation on the public private structure for port administration used in Chile and the work of Valparaiso port. Following this, the delegation toured the public port facilities and the passenger terminal. Valparaiso port deals mainly with containers and is the major exporting port for Chile and Argentina as it can access the Far East markets.

In the afternoon the delegation visit the private Terminal Pacifico Sud port facility, licensed under concession from the Port of Valparaiso. Mr. Duncan Glass, general manager, gave a presentation to the delegation which was followed by a tour of the port facility. The following morning the delegation drove to Santiago and that afternoon had a meeting with the subsecretario de telecommunicaciones, Mr. Christian Nicolai, and Mr. Pablo Bello Arellano, director of regulation. Under Chilean administration the subsecretario, at ministerial level, is appointed by the President as the "head" of a department. This meeting was very informative as it covered the difficulties that Chile was having in the provision of the telephony services, including broadband and mobile services, to a country that has such a low and disparate population density — the similarities to Ireland being obvious, particularly in regard to the digital divide. Last year this committee discussed the roll-out of broadband and produced a report on the subject in March 2004.

At noon on Saturday the delegation departed Santiago to return to Ireland. I now propose that we invite the Chilean and Argentinian ambassadors to discuss some of the issues that arose during our visit to their countries and which will assist us in formulating our final report on this important visit.

This will also give the media a better understanding of the parliamentary exchanges with countries which have established diplomatic and trade links with Ireland. I also propose that, through both ambassadors we formally extend an invitation to the committee on energy and gas of the Argentinian Parliament and to the committee on fisheries in the Chilean Parliament to visit Ireland and to meet this committee to discuss matters of mutual benefit.

I compliment everyone concerned in preparing this substantial report, and particularly the committee secretariat, bringing together the various aspects of the tour. The tour revealed the lack of aquaculture development in Ireland compared with the extraordinary development in Chile where 20 years ago it produced 50 tonnes and now it produces 0.75 million tonnes of fish. The national development plan here had anticipated that we should produce 48,000 tonnes by 2010 and today we produce only 12,000 tonnes.

A few weeks from now we will visit Enda Connellan in Dublin Port, which is now up to 98% capacity. We learnt a great deal on this visit to Argentina and Chile. Exchanges of this nature are very beneficial. Ports are my area of responsibility. Ireland is an island nation but much of its coastline lacks infrastructure, with many ports lying derelict. The Government must invest in the development of the port infrastructure. Wild salmon cultivation versus aquaculture salmon cultivation is an important area.

Many people we met on the visit were highly supportive. The Chilean ambassador advised us before the visit, which was important. The trip was important for re-establishing cultural links, particularly with Admiral Browne's connection to Argentina, and Ambrosio and Bernardo O'Higgins's connections to Chile. There are strong cultural links between Chile, Argentina and Ireland. Chile has done well in the last 12 years. There is an opportunity for expanding trade links between there and Ireland. There is also much to be learnt from both countries in the development of ports, aquaculture and fisheries.

I compliment the Chairman on the role he played as leader of the delegation. The number of meetings is evidence of the amount of work involved. I was delighted to return home to recover from the travelling involved. As we travelled 13 hours in economy class, I did not see any element of luxury in the trip. As a former chairman of the Committee of Public Accounts, I have worked very closely with the Comptroller and Auditor General, Mr. Purcell, on accountability and the spending of taxpayers' money. The value for money aspect of the trip would stand up to any scrutiny with regard to the development of critical areas of the Irish economy.

I thank Deputy Perry for his presentation.

I thank the members for their extensive setting out of the activities and the work of the committee abroad. I was not on the trip but I heard the Chairman's interview on RTE when he was away. I was concerned at the linkage in the interview between the fact that RTE, on behalf of the public, was asking legitimate questions about the trip and the Chairman saying the RTE authority would appear before the committee in several week's time. As a member of the committee, I cannot stand over any threat to the national broadcasting service. I cannot stand over any linkage between its questioning, as a public service broadcaster and a member of the media, of the activities of the committee, which it is perfectly entitled to do, and its appearance before this committee to discuss its financial situation and corporate governance. The Chairman in the course of the interview made a remark about the licence fee which was not appropriate. The linkage between this committee's spending of public money and RTE's spending through the licence fee does not reflect well on this committee. I dissociate myself from the Chairman's remarks.

Parliamentary trips are valuable and I have taken part in them. I recently made a valuable trip with the Chairman to Russia. The media are not only entitled but welcome to question what we do when we are on trips abroad. Any level of public information that the public can have about the valuable work done by committees, particularly inter-parliamentary work, is useful. It does not serve this committee or the valuable work done by the Chairman and other members who travelled to Argentina and Chile to take umbrage at RTE and the media's questioning on what the committee was up to there. All members agreed that the delegation should travel. It came before the committee in the proper manner.

Like Deputy Perry, I believe the Committee of Public Accounts would have no difficulty with how the money was spent. My concern is with any suggestion that the media have no right to question what we do. The media have every right to question what we do. In advance of RTE, as the national broadcaster, appearing before the committee, I ask the Chairman to clear the air on his remarks so that there is no question on any linkage between the licence fee, our opinion on it and our role in scrutinising how RTE spends public money and how the committee spends public money. I invite the Chairman to do so as it would be useful.

For clarification, I spoke to only one journalist other than Jody Corcoran of the Sunday Independent. I was using the analogy of comparing value for money from both organisations. It was certainly not an implied threat. In my business in the committee, I have always been impartial and have given every side a fair hearing, including RTE, even though we have had robust meetings. One of the first actions the committee took was to invite RTE to discuss the licence fee increase. As a consequence of that meeting, on the same day we agreed to endorse a substantial licence fee increase for RTE.

RTE appeared before the committee two years ago when we had a robust meeting on corporate governance, finances and the code of ethics of the authority. Subsequently, the RTE authority published a new code of ethics for its staff and contractors and presented it to the committee at an informal meeting in the authority's offices last year. RTE is to appear before the committee next Wednesday. Senator O'Meara can be assured that the issues that will be discussed will be on corporate governance and the running of the station and any other matters which members feel should be raised with the authority. The Senator has my full assurance that I will act in an impartial manner.

I thank the Chairman. I take it then that he has no difficulty with RTE, as part of the media and the national broadcaster, questioning what this committee is about.

I respect the right of the media to inquire and report. My only request to the media today is that it should report in an objective and full manner. A comprehensive press release on the work being undertaken by the committee was issued on the Sunday night we were travelling. It is unfortunate that the most important matters in the press release were not dealt with in the interview.

It is unfortunate the interview left the impression it did. It is useful to have it cleared up.

Absolutely.

I have never been on a foreign trip. However, coming to this committee and hearing the reports on the various trips members have made, I know how valuable they are and how much work goes into them. While it is most important that journalists can question any aspect of Oireachtas work, there is also a responsibility on them to do it in a transparent way and to represent the facts. The coverage of this trip, by both the broadcast and print media, was absolutely despicable. It was as if Deputies Perry, O'Flynn and others were gone surfing in South America. The media reports clearly called the work of this committee into question. I was embarrassed on Sunday afternoon, after reading newspaper reports and hearing particular shows on radio and elsewhere, to have to defend the trip. While we must welcome questioning, there is also an onus on us as an Oireachtas committee to ensure that the representation of events is factual and transparent.

I propose that from now on, after each committee trip, a report such as this one be put on record. I look forward to the press benches behind me being as packed then for each such committee report as they were today. I trust that our reports will be commented on with the same eagerness and enthusiasm, but more factually, focusing on the true nature of these trips rather than attempting to sensationalise aspects such as where one might be staying, how far away the trip is or its cost.

In terms of value for money, the cost of this trip has been very small. One could not hold a conference for 50 delegates in Cork for the kind of money involved. A high-powered group of members, representative of the entire Houses of the Oireachtas, was taken to the other side of the world to hold 25 meetings, which were exceptionally good. I have never gone on any such foreign trip but this committee has perhaps the most substantial remit of all. The committee, the Houses of the Oireachtas and the Irish people were represented, and had a service done for them, which was not truly represented by any media interest.

I advise the Senator that under Standing Orders, the committee is obliged to write a report on every trip undertaken overseas and publish it. Today's report was a verbal summary of the visit and the written report will be forthcoming.

I noticed five mis-quotes in the report in the Sunday Independent. Remarks were attributed to people who did not make them, and two such remarks were attributed to me. Fortunately for us, we had the full tape-recording of the interview in Buenos Aires. Derogatory remarks which, it was alleged, I made about Joe Duffy, were totally out of context. I made an off-the-cuff comment that I would not mind having Joe Duffy’s salary, and nothing more dangerous than that, because I admire people like Joe Duffy, Pat Kenny and others. I am a regular listener to their programmes. They are doing a great job, and good luck to them.

I represent a constituency which has a substantial fishing industry. All belonging to me, going back to Famine days, were involved in fishing, and I have a keen interest in the whole area. The salmon industry is of serious concern to me. There is a good deal of fish farming and aquaculture in West Cork, in particular a successful mussel industry. Our fishing production has fallen from 20,000 tonnes to 12,000 tonnes, and continues to fall. Ireland is spending €31 million annually on aquaculture but instead of moving towards our target of €38 million we are falling back, which is of serious concern.

The report read today was only a summary. We also discussed with the politicians in Argentina and particularly in Chile the question of managing and conserving fish stocks in a worldwide capacity. The point was made, I think by the secretary of the Department of Fisheries in Chile, that we should consider a sort of Kyoto Protocol in terms of a worldwide programme to manage fish stocks.

In this country we face the problem of declining mackerel stocks. We were told that the Chilean navy constantly monitors its 200-mile fishing zone because at the edge of that zone there are huge Chinese and other Asian fleets which scoop up large quantities of mackerel and other fish. There is worldwide concern that mackerel, being a migratory species, is in danger of serious decline over the next decade or two. Ireland and indeed Europe should support a worldwide fish management programme before it is too late. In Newfoundland, we saw that certain whitefish species were wiped out and never recovered. We should initiate through the EU a worldwide management of our fish stocks and not just focus on the small picture of Europe. Argentina on its own is as big as Europe. There is a major problem out there which even Irish fishermen are concerned about.

When I suggested in Chile that its navy might police Chile's own fishing vessels and arrest any crews breaking the law, which would involve heavy fines, court appearances and the confiscation of fishing gear, the authorities laughed at the idea. The Chilean navy polices its own waters to ensure that other large navies, such as the Korean, Chinese and Japanese, do not encroach on Chilean waters.

It if of great concern to me that our Naval Service seems to have nothing to do but arrest Irish vessels, which currently face great difficulties because of quota restrictions and worldwide problems in the past decade such as the increasing cost of fuel. The Irish fishing industry has never been under such duress. I am asking once again that the Naval Service should consider patrolling our national waters rather than engaging in daily arrests of Irish boats, which is ludicrous. I think we are the only country where fishing boat skippers when arrested are brought before the Circuit Court, where draconian penalties, the highest in Europe, are imposed. In most countries throughout Europe and the world, offences in this area are dealt with in a more appropriate manner, with smaller fines imposed, so that an industry already under great duress is not crippled.

This country is almost 90% dependent on fossil fuels. That situation cannot continue. Not only in my own constituency but throughout Ireland, a great debate is going on about wind farms and wind energy. Though we regularly talk of harnessing energy from the sea, we have done very little to develop that over the past 20 years. Farming has greatly changed, with some land in this country no longer used because of the set-aside scheme, and there is a feeling that we should do more to foster the development of biofuels as well as hydropower. Over the next ten to 15 years we should be trying to increase our own energy supplies to at least 30% to 40% of our needs and not be so dependent on outside energy. For example, we are importing nearly 3 million tonnes of coal annually from South America for the power plant in Moneypoint in County Clare. That cannot continue, partly because of the damage being done to our environment.

There are many such areas in which this committee can play a very positive role. In that regard, the trip was very educational, though we got only a small synopsis of it today. The Chairman was very diligent on the trip, attending meetings from early morning to night. We were all engaged in continuous debate on issues of concern to us. Argentina and Chile have strong links to this country and it worried me that the adverse comments made by a small section of the media caused concern at diplomatic level in those countries. Next year, we expect about 6,000 visitors to Ireland from Argentina. Moreover, in the port of Buenos Aires, of the 11 huge cranes which deal with the containers there, ten were manufactured in Killarney. While we were out there we met three or four engineers from Liebherr in Killarney, who were installing another crane and hoping to do further business. I asked the Chilean port officials, particularly in Valparaiso, to take a look at Irish cranes. I found out that all the cranes in Valparaiso were actually made in China. A good deal of business is being done, with much interaction and trade between the various countries. We are now in a global market and cannot bury our heads in the sand.

I want to formally acknowledge the excellent work done by the Chairman on the trip and his active participation in a number of areas. I did not mention telecommunications and other areas that we discussed.

Let us forget for the moment about Dublin, where there are problems as regards expansion, and look at Kinsale, where the port is in the middle of a tourist town, or Bantry. The thinking internationally, and in South America in particular, is that if a port is being developed, it is best to move the port area outside the centre to stop congestion. That gives more room for manoeuvre. In Valparaiso, unlike Dublin where a tunnel is being built at great cost to bring trucks to the port, they are building a motorway dedicated to trucks travelling to and from the port, circumventing the main route. There are many parallel issues that are worthy of discussion.

I remember when the Chilean ambassador came here with a delegation. Chile and Argentina have come through severe socio-economic earthquakes in the last decade or so and have now embraced democracy. When they are prepared to visit Ireland to discuss issues of mutual interest, there should be no question about the integrity of our visit, provided it was valuable, engaging and educational. It was all of those things.

To say that the Chairman took umbrage at the media coverage is incorrect. The opposite is nearer the truth. The Chairman issued a press release as he left the country to inform everybody what the trip was about. It is well known that he enjoys a good relationship with the press, including RTE.

I thank the Chairman for the report. I was on a trip with the Chairman previously to the United States of America and I know how hard he worked. It was to do with broadband and was very interesting. On a constructive note, had he issued the press release in advance that might have been better. A press release referring to countries such as Chile and Argentina was bound to provoke some reaction, as it did on the RTE morning programme. I would not have become involved in the issue. I make that point as a constructive suggestion. The media must have a bee in their bonnet regarding Argentina. A few years ago members of the Public Accounts Committee went to Argentina, and if I recall correctly, one of the papers actually followed and took photographs of them there.

Quite often when the Taoiseach or the President travel abroad on trips, they are accompanied by journalists who report on what they are doing. There is a degree of accountability and transparency about this trip from what the Chairman has produced this morning. After this and the previous trip, I cannot help thinking of Eva Peron and "Don't cry for me, Argentina".

Tháinig fear ó Valparaiso. It should not be thought that I am afraid to speak on these occasions, having been a Member of this House for some considerable time. I have been on many delegations and represented the Public Accounts Committee as well as the European affairs, environment, social affairs and various other committees over the years. The work programme laid out by the Chairman was very extensive and included a great many important meetings which deserve to be covered seriously rather than the manner in which such items are traditionally reported. I have had criticism for taking time off — my holiday time, incidentally — to attend to the work of a committee, about which facetious remarks were made. However, I do not worry about that.

Senator Finucane made a valid point. Nobody questions it when the Taoiseach, the Tánaiste or a bevy of Ministers descend on the shores of another country. The cost is considerable and the benefits are obvious. However, the perception that ordinary rank and file Members of the Oireachtas have nothing to offer is incorrect. The quicker everyone takes that proposition seriously the better. The alternative is that committees should remain at home, become parochial and not learn about what their contemporaries are doing in other places. We might not make as many mistakes if we learned a bit more about what is happening elsewhere. Perhaps we might not have as many embarrassments if we took account of what is being done in other jurisdictions.

They make mistakes as well that we can learn from, and vice versa we can tell them about ours. On the whole concept and value of delegations going abroad, there are two choices. We can do nothing and be criticised for that, or we can do something and be criticised for it. The media could be invited to send journalists along on such trips, for their own benefit. I see nothing wrong with that.

On one occasion someone complained to me that a certain media person had not been invited. I had presumed that it was up to the newspaper, radio or television station involved to send their own nominees along to see what was going on. Certainly, the issue of transparency and accountability must be recognised at all times.

Is it agreed that the clerk will find a suitable date to invite the Chilean and Argentinian ambassadors along to share their views with the committee on the issues that were raised? That would assist us in concluding the report on this important trip. Is that agreed? Agreed.

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