I welcome the Minister of State at the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine and his officials. Members are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that they should not comment upon, criticise or make charges against a person outside the Houses or any official either by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable. I remind them to turn off their mobile phones. I call the Minister of State.
Forestry Sector: Discussion with Minister of State at the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine
It is nice to be back. It is almost 12 months since I appeared before the committee to discuss the forestry sector. I am accompanied by officials who deal with forestry in my Department. They are: Mr. Kevin Smyth, assistant secretary; Ms. Bridgeena Nolan, principal officer; Mr. Seamus Dunne and Dr. Eugene Hendrick, senior inspectors; and my adviser, Mr. Liam Cahill.
At our meeting last October, I outlined, in broad terms, the significant returns and benefits from forestry in Ireland, including employment, exports, climate change mitigation, and recreational and environmental benefits. These benefits are the return on investment by the Government in the development of forestry over recent decades through the availability of forestry grants and premiums to landowners. One of my most gratifying moments since I assumed responsibility for forestry was the announcement in the budget of the allocation for forestry for 2012. Given the challenging budgetary and economic environment of which we are all aware, the maintenance of funding for the afforestation programme at near 2011 levels was welcome news for the forestry industry as a whole. The provision by the Government of almost €112 million is a reflection of the importance it attaches to an industry that provides employment, predominantly in rural communities, for more than 16,000 people. These jobs are provided across a range of activities, including growing, harvesting and processing of forestry products.
There continues to be a demand for timber as a raw material and this demand has the potential to increase significantly over the next 20 years, where in addition to the traditional outlets in the wood processing sector, the wood energy sector is also developing into a substantial market. The allocation for 2012 covers afforestation grants, ongoing premium commitments and the support schemes, which are vital for the successful management of the forest estate. With regard to the ongoing investment in the development of forestry, premiums amounting to €75.2 million were paid during 2011, which represented an increase of 4% on 2010.
The 2012 allocation also provides funding for a planting programme of about 7,000 hectares in 2012, which is in line with average levels of planting achieved over recent years, with payments made in 2011 for the new planting of 6,653 hectares. While this is significantly less than the targeted planting levels, it continues to meet the demand for planting among both farming and other private landowners.
With regard to support schemes, members may be aware of the suspension before Christmas of both the thinning and tending of broadleafs and forest roads schemes pending a review of liabilities and available funding. I was pleased to reopen both schemes in late January with some minor changes to the forest roads scheme. It is important every now and then to take stock to ensure that money is being spent efficiently and effectively to maximise the benefit of the investment for the sector and the wider economy. I am satisfied that both schemes are essential elements for forestry development and provide necessary incentives to landowners to manage their plantations effectively to get the most from what is a joint investment in forestry. I was keenly aware of the concerns expressed about the future of the schemes and I was delighted that the Government's commitment to forestry evidenced in the budget placed me in a position to be able to keep these important schemes open.
While we tend to discuss the forestry sector and the forestry industry in general terms, it is sometimes useful to examine the range that covers. The elements within the sector include forest nurseries, landowners, forestry companies, both establishment and harvesting, sawmills, and timber processors right through to the end markets, all of which have linkages and interdependencies with each other. For example, a certain level of new planting is essential on an ongoing basis to ensure a critical mass of timber comes on stream for processing. In 2010, the Irish forestry and forest products sector generated €2.2 billion in annual output and forest products to the value of €286 million were exported. This underlines the importance of the afforestation programme in the long-term. I was encouraged, therefore, by the increase of 37% in the number of applications for approval for forestry in January 2012 compared with January 2011.
I am conscious that the mobilisation of the private timber resource is also a priority. A great deal of effort is being undertaken to encourage private owners to thin their forests as appropriate. I acknowledge the work of the Teagasc forest development department in this regard, as it has assisted the formation of forest producer groups throughout the country. There are 25 such groups currently, the purpose of which is to provide a means by which forest owners can come together to share information and experience. The IFA farm forestry committee have also highlighted this issue, as the theme of its 2011 forestry conference was "Working together to mobilise the private timber resource" and it has also developed "A Practical Guide to Forest Owner Organisations".
Infrastructural issues to be addressed and I was pleased to reopen the forest roads scheme to assist in the construction of forest roads. It is evident that privately owned timber is being harvested, given the increased demand for felling licences. In 2011, the felling section of my Department issued 3,616 licences, an increase of 29% on 2010. This covered harvesting in almost 138,000 hectares of plantations throughout the country, with thinning accounting for approximately 122,000 hectares of the total. While the bulk of the felling licences related to Coillte owned plantations, felling licences for 13,000 hectares related to private plantations.
The increasing focus on renewable energy has been a positive development for forest owners. Wood makes an important and increasing contribution to Ireland's energy requirements, reducing dependence on imported fossil fuels, contributing to national fuel security and redirecting money back into the local economy. In 2010, 34% of roundwood harvested in the Republic was used for the production of biomass energy. Approximately 1 million cu. m of wood biomass was used for energy purposes. Almost half of this - 475,000 cu. m - was used for energy production and process drying at sawmills and wood-based panel mills, but in recent years, there has been significant growth in the use of wood for domestic and commercial heating in the form of traditional firewood, wood chip, wood pellets and wood briquettes. Between 2005 and 2009, the domestic use of forest based biomass for the production of energy increased by 18% per annum. The vast bulk of this wood is used within 70 to 80 kilometres of the forest, contributing to sustainable employment and economic development in rural communities. It is estimated that the use of wood biomass energy in Ireland has resulted in a total emissions saving of 2.03 million tonnes of carbon dioxide since 2006.
I refer to exports of forest products in 2010. I acknowledge the efforts of timber processors in maintaining and growing exports during a particularly difficult time in the construction sector. This is a great success element of the forestry sector because, until recently, Irish structural timber was largely sold on the home market, with pallet and fencing products making up the bulk of sawn timber exports. However, in recent years, Irish sawmillers have developed new products and export markets for them. I recently visited Coillte's Medite plant outside Clonmel and I was impressed by their innovation in developing new MDF products. As I said at the time, it is an example of what can be achieved with consistent commitment to anticipating and meeting market requirements.
A continuous, secure supply of timber to timber processors is vital to maintain these developments. We need not only to encourage increased afforestation and mobilisation of timber from privately owned plantations, but also to protect our current forestry resource. My Department has done significant work to raise awareness about the threat posed by forest fires and has sought to minimise that risk by tackling the problem of illegal and uncontrolled burning. I acknowledge the level of assistance from and engagement by a range of agencies and bodies in addressing this issue. Last week, I addressed a conference on forest fires in Ireland organised by the Irish Forestry and Forest Products Association, IFFPA, to outline the progress we are making in the implementation of a series of recommendations by the land and forest fires working group, which I mentioned to the committee last October.
One of the main elements has been the publication of a set of guidelines intended to assist farmers who wished to burn vegetation safely and within the requirements of the law as part of their land management regime. This prescribed burning code of practice for Ireland is important because it addresses one potential and actual source of many land fires. My Department will continue its information and awareness campaign into 2012 to bring this message to farmers, landowners and forest owners and will also continue to pursue the various other recommendations of the working group.
I understand the committee is also interested in the new renewable energy feed-in-tariff, REFIT, scheme. Responsibility in the first instance for REFIT rests with my colleague, the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources. However, I welcome the decision by the director-general for competition to approve REFIT as it is hoped that its introduction will provide a basis for increased mobilisation of forest-based biomass, underpin the energy crop sector and contribute to rural development. I understand that applications for entry under REFIT are not yet open and that the Department of Communications, Energy and Natural Resources has placed the draft terms and conditions on its website and invited comments to be submitted.
That is just a brief overview of the forestry sector but I hope I have conveyed the main positive aspects within the sector and the important role it plays in the economy. There is also a range of recreational and environmental benefits that time does not permit me to outline.
The theme of this year's National Tree Week, Trees - Our Past, Our Present, Our Future, sums up the importance of forestry. The Tree Council of Ireland, which organises the annual event that runs this year from 4 to 10 March, is asking people "to recognise the significance of trees and forests as a living link to our past, as an enjoyable, life-enhancing asset in the present, and a wise investment in our future".
My officials and I are working towards the achievement of returns from State investment to date and ensuring that forestry is in place so that future generations will be able to enjoy the many benefits of forestry.
I welcome the Minister of State and his officials. I thank him for his comprehensive overview of what is being done in the Department. He rightly pointed out that the forestry sector, in terms of an economic resource to the State, is very important and outlined the generation of €2.2 billion in annual outputs in terms of forestry product to the economy, which is significant.
The Minister touched on a number of the key issues including forest fires and roads but the overall work being done by his Department, and by him as Minister of State, cannot be underestimated. I praise the Minister of State because since he came into the Department he has shown a keen interest in the forestry area, and that has been demonstrated up and down the country. I thank him for that and for the work he is doing.
The road being played by Coillte as a forestry service is enormous. Coillte may be the largest land owner in the State. It has huge resources of land that has the potential to generate more economic activity than that land is currently generating. I would like to hear the Minister of State's views on that. To be fair, Coillte is reaching out to the community, including in my county of Donegal, and is trying to co-operate with Donegal County Council and local authorities in other parts of the country to examine tourism potential within Coillte-owned lands, whether that be for mountain biking, orienteering or walking. There are other economic benefits that can be developed on the back of Coillte-owned land, and the Minister of State might outline the steps being taken in that regard.
The processing of timber grown in the State has always been an issue in the Border counties in particular. Much of the evidence, at least anecdotally, would suggest that a great deal of the timber is being grown in the State and then exported across the Border for secondary processing, with little added-on economic benefit to our Exchequer and to job creation here. The Minister of State might indicate whether there is any way we can stimulate additional add-on or secondary processing within the timber sector here. Do we need to consider research and product development in terms of the manufacture of timber-based products? The energy market is very important but I understand there is also a great deal of importation of energy wood chips and other products into the Republic. Is there any way we can try to penetrate the market more actively in the Republic in terms of the product we are producing? I am aware there might have been an issue about the moisture content of wood chip products being produced here, and the Minister of State might give us his views on that.
Forest fires are an issue. The Minister of State was in Donegal to meet with all of the stakeholders where he outlined in his presentation that his Department is addressing the problem of forest fires, and I know that is the case. The forest fires in Donegal and in other parts of the country happened on commonage land that was under-grazed. I understand the Minister and his Department have been considering opening up those lands for the grazing of sheep. That must occur because the people best equipped to give the Minister advice on what happened in their own areas are the farmers, and they are all saying they cannot graze because they are curtailed under the commonage framework directive but if they were allowed to graze it would cut down on the stubble type grass that is generating the fires. The Minister of State might indicate if any progress has been made on that.
The damage to roads is a contentious issue. We always get the phone call from people who live on forestry roads complaining that they are being torn up by large forestry lorries, both private or public. There is co-operation between Coillte and relevant local authorities at a national level but could a more dedicated fund be made available? Coillte and the Department might say there is already a dedicated fund but I refer to putting some mechanism in place between the local authorities and Coillte to ensure that if roads are torn up, and if the council engineers are reporting those roads are being torn up, as a result of excessive usage by timber lorries the funding can then be made available to repair those roads. Very often the local authority blames Coillte, Coillte blames the local authority, the road does not get fixed, and the local communities lose out as a result.
I make those general points. The Minister of State is doing a good job. He is promoting forestry, which is the way forward from an environmental sustainability point of view in that we must try to generate as much forestry development through grant aid to farmers as possible. Farmers are interested in diversifying into forestry development schemes, which is welcome, as is the additional funding this year. The applications being made as a result of that are welcome.
I welcome the Minister and his officials. I share the view expressed. This is an area in which the Minister of State has a personal interest in and commitment to, and that comes across in what he says and in the decisions he makes. I share that enthusiasm. There is significant investment by the State in this important industry, and that is important in terms of now and the future of this island.
My questions are by way of seeking the Minister of State's views on some issues. Does he believe we have a good mix in terms of native, non-native, hard wood and soft wood? Does the State need a greater input into the mix of wood types being supported through grant aid?
Some people are expressing concerns that as building contracts elsewhere the export potential may not continue to rise as it has done in the past and that there should be a slight refocusing on the renewable energy sector in which greater benefits may arise.
I put this consideration to the Minister of State. For a landowner an investment in forestry is significant because once the decision is made he or she cannot roll back on it. In these stringent economic times people want a certainty in terms of where they will be in ten or 20 years time. The last thing they want to do is enter into some form of contract with the State and, as a result of economic factors, that which had been contracted begins to reduce and the landowner has no option but to continue in the forestry industry. People are seeking medium to long-term certainty in the arrangements with the State.
I thank the Minister of State for his briefing. I echo the sentiments expressed by previous speakers about his personal commitment to the development of the forestry sector.
While Coillte might not come within the remit of the Minister of State, its potential sale is an important issue in terms of the future development of the forestry sector and the important role forestry can play nationally in the biomass sector as we pass peak oil production resulting in a need to divert from using oil resources for energy and heat, particularly at a domestic level. Coillte will have a huge role to play in that respect. How does the Minister of State see its sale fitting into a strategy in preparing for the end of the use of oil as a source of heat?
The Western Development Commission is participating in the RASLRES programme, an EU-wide programme. It has estimated that approximately 1,200 jobs could be created in the wood-biomass sector in the north west. The sector has huge potential, particularly in rural areas where it is difficult to attract and create jobs, and should be developed further. We should examine moving away from using oil to biomass as a heating source, which would have huge benefits in offsetting oil imports. Biomass is also a renewable energy source. Coillte will have a significant role to play in the sector. However, its sale would be a negative step in developing the sector.
Senator Brian Ó Domhnaill mentioned the huge amenity value to the forestry sector of the land bank of Coillte. It could be developed much further. What role does the Minister of State envisage the sector will play in that respect?
I welcome the Minister of State and his staff. Having planted 40 acres of forestry in 1995 and 1996, I have a good idea of how the forestry service works. I could not compliment the staff at Johnstown Castle enough on their work. They have been extremely good and competent during the years in sorting payments and addressing various issues. While we might have had issues with single farm payments, the forestry service has been extremely well organised, which must be recognised.
It is important to maintain planting levels to meet targets and also to ensure the viability of nurseries which simply cannot turn on and off the tap. I bought trees in a nursery during the week and the sector is finding the going tough. There is a need for certainty that planting will continue.
Up to a number of years ago SEI provided grants for wood gasification boilers. I bought and fitted one of these boilers which are fantastic in that they not only burn timber but also the gases therefrom. They are up to 90% fuel efficient. The use of such a boiler on a farm involves the use of natural resources and the withdrawal of the grant has had an impact, although I acknowledge the scheme was aboused. Many are waiting to see if such a boiler will work in that they do not want to take the plunge and be the first to install one. However, it can result in savings of €4,000 a year in the direct substitution of oil. I was asked for €7,000 to have a boiler fitted which I could have bought for €2,000 from a supplier elsewhere in the country. Suppliers and fitters were seeking a premium on top of what was provided under the scheme. If the reintroduction of the scheme at a sensible pricing level could be examined, more wood gasification boilers would be installed. They are tremendous and the benefits are evident. I know they cannot be ignored.
We need to prioritise the use of wood and other products up to the level for peat in the REFIT tariffs. I had people call to me during the week seeking to fire combined heat and power plants not only using wood but also miscanthus and other materials. This issue needs to be seriously examined.
The issue of planning permission in the forestry sector arose recently. I live in an area of the Nagle Mountains in the Blackwater Valley where we have plenty of timber. I know of a person who wanted to plant quite a distance from the Nagle Mountains but who was refused permission because of a threat posed to the habitat of a white butterfly. This is bordering on the ridiculous; it is madness. There was a forest long before the white butterfly. I have been living in that area for a long time and never one. Such inconsistency in planning is frustrating. The butterfly species at risk would need to be really important to stop permission being given for planting. Common sense should prevail.
I agree with Senator Brian Ó Domhnaill on forestry owners making a contribution towards the cost of local government. A levy of perhaps €5 per acre per annum should be paid by them, although I may be speaking against my own interests in this respect. Forests tend to be planted on poor ground at high locations. Many who have moved into forestry areas will have to pay the €100 household charge, but they have found that local roads have been ripped asunder. This might only happen every number of years, but a fund needs to be put in place to address the issue, as good roads mean good neighbours. The contribution of the forestry sector to society has not been good enough to date.
I echo the sentiments expressed by other members in welcoming the Minister of State who presented a positive overview of the contribution the forestry sector is making domestically and through exports. A number of contributors referred to the energy potential of the sector. The Minister of State might elaborate on whether his Department can be more proactive in this regard. As stated previously, if wars are to be fought, one of them will be over energy resources.
Some 18 months ago RTE broadcast a television programme on the incidence of littering across the country and it emerged that an increasing amount of litter was being dumped on Coillte lands. I corresponded with Coillte at the time and received a comprehensive reply, for which I was grateful. The Minister of State might comment on this issue. Previous speakers, including the Minister of State, commented on the amenity value of forestry. Nothing will put off visitors, be they domestic or international, more than suddenly finding a number of bags that have been torn open by animals along a walk with a beautiful vista and birds singing in the midst of flora and fauna. Has the Minister of State had any input into whether extra sanctions should be imposed for littering? I know he cannot legislate for human behaviour and that forestries can be so large that it is almost impossible to patrol them all the time, but is there any mechanism in place to address this problem? A more concentrated effort should be made to address it close to the beginning of the tourist season in April-May. I am not suggesting Fáilte Ireland is falling down in its efforts in this regard, but it is important that I raise the issue.
My final question relates to a matter that arose during the private sessions and it is one to which I will be returning regularly. I ask the Chairman for his indulgence to briefly raise the issue of fracking. The company which has stated publicly that it will proceed with a licence application has made it clear at a variety of public meetings in my county and others surrounding it that if it receives a drilling licence, the ponds used in extracting gas from the rock will be located on Coillte land. It has made this statement repeatedly. Is the Minister of State aware of any discussions, formal or informal, at local, regional or national level between Tamboran and Coillte? This is important for the people of this country in general, but particularly for those who are in the eye of the storm in the north west. This public statement, which has now been repeated by representatives of Tamboran, is causing a great deal of concern because it gives the impression that there is some form of conspiracy between the State agencies and a commercial company to thwart the will of the people. The company is operating in a stealth-like manner by not going into the commercial market to purchase land that it wishes to drill but instead going to State agencies. I am only saying this. The Minister of State knows that perception is sometimes worse than fact. There may be a perception that somehow the State could be conspiring with this company to thwart the will of the people. It is important that Coillte and the Minister of State be aware of this, if they are not already, and that they ensure the interests of the people are protected and not those of a commercial entity.
Like everybody else, I welcome what the Minister of State had to say. There is one issue I wish to raise. We are all quite aware of the difficulties with increasing the areas of afforestation. The Slieve Aughty mountains are close to where I live, and the great majority of the planted area falls within my constituency. As the Minister of State may be aware, there is a special protection area for the purpose of protecting the hen harrier, and as a result it is increasingly difficult for farmers to get permission to plant. However, within Slieve Aughty there are areas under Coillte ownership which were planted in the past. Coillte planted large areas and there were various experiments in the 1940s, 1950s and 1960s, all of which was very welcome, but some areas, particularly deep peat areas, were not suitable for growing crops. Some crops seemed to grow well initially and Coillte planted more of those areas, but after ten years or so it transpired the trees stopped growing, or stopped growing well.
Under the Forestry Act 1946, if Coillte fells any area that is currently afforested, it must replant that area or a similar area. However, because Coillte does not obtain the same grants as private farmers, it is not in the market for buying land as it used to be. Effectively, these areas are not growing commercially-viable timber. However, I am told the cost of felling the trees in these areas so they can return to their natural state, which would be beneficial for hen harriers, would barely be recouped by what Coillte would obtain, and then it would have to undertake the further cost of replanting those areas despite their commercial inviability. I draw to the Minister of State's attention the difficulty associated with the provision under which Coillte must replant areas. Large swathes of the Slieve Aughty area are growing excellent commercial timber, but there are deep peat areas in which trees do not grow well. Lough Attorick is one area that was cut and allowed to return to nature, but there are other regions in which this was not done. The Department should consider a more nuanced approach. This would benefit hen harriers, which in turn would benefit farmers, if an exchange programme were set up under which farmers were allowed to plant new areas in the SPA in return for Coillte's allowing the areas unsuited to commercial timber plantation to return to their natural state.
I welcome the Minister of State and his officials. I will not go over all that has been said previously. We agree on the importance of forestry to the fabric of rural life in this country and the significant number of jobs it creates - 15,000 ha. of forest can contribute almost 500 jobs directly. This is something we must consider from the point of view of employment in rural areas.
The Minister of State outlined the funding for forestry in 2012, which is welcome. It was a close-run thing and might not have happened at all. He might outline future funding proposals and plans. Obviously, funding will need to continue, as these are long-term projects. I would like to know what is proposed for the future.
I note that in 2009, approximately 6,500 ha. were planted with forest, while in 2010 the total was just short of 8,500 ha. and in 2011 it was approximately 6,500 ha. The Minister of State might give an indication of why there is fluctuation in the levels of planting. Is it directly related to funding, or are there other issues that come into play? These are serious fluctuations. The targets we are reaching are modest compared with what we were trying to achieve some years back - up to 20,000 ha. per annum. The current levels are probably more pragmatic, but there are serious fluctuations year on year. It might be no harm to give us some indication of why that happens.
Senator Ó Domhnaill mentioned the tourism potential of Coillte lands. Where there are public lands with no immediate action plans, it might be appropriate to enter into development partnerships with local Leader groups or communities to maximise their tourism potential, particularly those that have significant waymarked trails or rights of way. How proactive is the Department in liaising with Fáilte Ireland or development partnerships throughout the country to maximise the potential of rural areas?
With regard to the biomass and bioenergy sector, one thing we have come across previously is the possibility of the Department making a contribution towards district heating systems in conjunction with other Departments or State agencies. There is quite a lot of potential in this regard. I would be interested to hear whether the Department would consider engaging with other State sectors to promote district heating systems, particularly for remote areas where there is a forestry resource that could supply fuel for energy. It would be a good project for the Department to undertake.
I welcome the report, but we could do better. The Minister of State has been absolutely outstanding in achieving what we have achieved, but there is further potential there and this should be considered. It is a good news story for rural Ireland that 10,000 ha. or 15,000 ha. of forestry can produce 500 to 600 jobs directly and many more indirectly.
I welcome the Minister of State and his staff. I also welcome my colleagues from the Irish Farmers Association. I agree wholeheartedly with the view that has been expressed by a couple of members on the tourist potential of forested areas, with the possibility of walking and other activities. In some cases walking trails were developed some years ago but for one reason or another were let go, and are now so eroded due to storms and so on that people are not even able to access them. I have evidence of that close to where I live. It would be great to see those walks reopened.
A lot of damage was caused by forest fires last year, both to the forests themselves and to neighbouring farms. Is there any aid available for people whose fences, for example, were damaged by fires?
I have been approached by a number of people who have small amounts of land under forest. Perhaps the IFA could help us in this regard. There is no register, perhaps due to confidentiality provisions, of farmers who have drawn down grants. If one has a small amount of land planted, it is not feasible to get in a machine to thin it or do some work on it, but if there were a register, a group of people could be brought together to get this type of work done. I have been approached by people who would be interested in setting up groups for this purpose. If 15 or 20 people got together, it would be feasible to bring in machines for thinning forests, building roads and so on. Isolated farmers with very small amounts of land planted do not know who else is in the scheme or who has drawn down a grant. If we could get a register of farmers, we could work towards forming groups for this purpose.
I thank the Minister of State for his presentation. The issue I wish to raise is an environmental one, namely, the balance we are trying to achieve between our carbon footprint and the use of very heavy machinery for harvesting in wood production and examining how the process has gone back to the future, as I would describe it, in other countries. Has the Department considered the re-introduction of the use of horses in harvesting for wood production? Horses have been introduced in other countries because they do the least amount of damage. They have to be fed oats but they do not have to be filled with petrol. In addition, they do not tend to damage the roads or the peat. Is the Department giving any consideration to this matter?
I represent a part of the country that has the highest percentage of forestry. Planning permission for road entrances is an issue that must be examined, especially in the case of people with relatively small areas of land to be thinned. The yield from the thinning might not justify it, but if one does not carry out the thinning, one might not have a viable clear-fall product that is commercially viable. That is a problem.
There is another problem that must be examined. Notwithstanding the fact that we are below our stated objective of 14,000 hectares per annum, there is competition now in an era of higher food prices. A land use policy is required where we can, through other efficiencies in farm production, allow for an increase in forest area cover without conflicting with the food supply. Food versus trees will become an issue and we will have to be aware of it. An awareness programme is required. All of the objectives outlined in Food Harvest 2020 can be achieved by growing food output through greater efficiency. However, as an overall policy a mix should be considered.
The matter of forest fires is particularly relevant in areas where there is open country. A huge section of the centre of County Wicklow is a national park and is subject to SACs, NHAs, SPAs and includes Natura areas and anything else one can think of. This excludes a great deal of proper and prudent vegetation management, including, dare I say it, heather burning. That has issues for deer migration and so forth but if it is not done properly, and we have seen evidence of this, it leads to a greater risk of a fire going out of control. Coillte has a great deal of forestry near that national park and it is terrified. It is a really serious issue and the Minister's Department and the Department of Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht must deal with it. Just as we are not trying to cull every deer out of the place, there is a proper conservation management plan which involves prudent heather burning.
With regard to biomass, there is a new technology available in other countries which have a far greater percentage of land under forestry. It is forest floor harvesting for the purposes of biomass. A product that was previously a nuisance and was rolled up and allowed to rot can now be harvested and turned into a source of energy.
Given what has been said about overall land use and the value of forestry for carbon sequestration - and we did work some work on that in the last committee - the net benefit of a forest over its lifetime, notwithstanding what Deputy Phelan has said, is probably quite significant and it must be part of our armoury when we go to argue our case.
Finally, with regard to tourism, Wicklow has some of the best mountain bike trails in the country. There are some in Cork as well. Wicklow also has walking trails. Both can work together. In the case of the Wicklow Way walking trail Coillte is allowed to move that trail from time to time when a clear fall or a planting is taking place. It can and does work. One particular Sunday publication does a lot of good work on this in its magazine section which covers a road less travelled. Every Sunday it gives a different Coillte route for readers. It is a very useful type of promotion that does not cost a great deal. The Coillte Outdoors website also promotes those trails.
Perhaps the Minister of State will respond on those issues and the matters raised by other members.
Some of the questions are interlinked. I thank the members for their initial comments. It is an agri-related industry. I did not know much about it previously but the only way to learn about it is to visit at ground level and, with the help of officials and people such as members of the committee, I visited sawmills and other places. Only a month ago I visited a sawmill that was working 24 hours per day, seven days a week producing materials. It was a Coillte sawmill in Clonmel. It was incredible to see what is being done and the markets that are being created abroad. It is all through Irish timber. It is the leading light in new ideas and new products. It has new products for windows that have not yet come onto the market but they will soon.
The biggest worry for the mills and for the people who start the process with regard to the plantations was whether there would be enough timber. That was always the question asked. In the budget we set out to ensure there would be confidence in the industry. The premia remained the same. Yes, we would like to have more hectares but the 7,000 hectares for which we have grant aid this year is achievable. My biggest worry was whether there would be the uptake in hectares given what will happen in 2014 and 2020 and with people going mad at sales marts and taking back land that was leased. The issue was whether we would have the land but there was a 37% increase in January this year compared with last year in initial inquiries and applications. That is coming from people who now see that forestry is a safe bet and is a far better bet than the stock exchange and so forth.
We know we have a great deal of work to do. The members have covered many of the issues relating to planning applications, the hen harrier, continuing to get markets, everybody working together as a team and the forest fires, which were a nightmare. Last week we addressed deforest issues and there are plans in place for education and so forth. The idea of the horses is new, but I know what the Deputy means. There was trouble in Donegal when machines went into the forest and broke down the banks of rivers. Representatives of Coillte met me and we discussed it. I am very impressed with Coillte and how it runs its business. It has all the markets and knows how to deal with them. However, that was an issue. I saw the size of the machines for thinning. They are massive and if they go into areas that are sensitive, they can do a great deal of damage. All those avenues can be considered.
Senator Ó Domhnaill spoke about Coillte and tourism. Tourism Ireland and Coillte are working on that. In some areas it is beginning to lapse but it can be rejuvenated. I visited Cavan and saw 30 or 40 log cabins in the middle of a forest that are closed down. It is an incredible facility and a great deal of money is being used to keep it maintained. It could be used during the summer or by a college or whatever. It has massive potential for people who might wish to spend their holidays at home instead of going to France or the like. Tourism Ireland is working very well in supporting the forestry industry in terms of walk ways, bike trails, trekking and pony trekking. It is an area we must work on.
The Chairman referred to forest fires. Some weeks ago I attended the launch of a campaign to prevent such fires. It was organised by the Irish Forestry and Forest Products Association at the IBEC centre and everyone involved in forestry sector was present. I was led into a room where I was shocked to find 40 people and to be asked to speak to them as soon as I went in. There were people there from the Irish Fire Service, the Army, the IFA, planting and timber yard companies. Everyone is concerned about this issue because one big fire could destroy everything. The Department has put a code of practice in place which is presented in a small booklet which is available on its website. There will also be a smaller booklet produced.
We will be tough. What happened in County Donegal and other areas last year was a disaster and a certain amount of it could have been stopped. The Minister is particularly concerned about hill grazing and the restocking of hill land with sheep. That will be a major issue, in respect of which people must be responsible.
I had hoped to see people compensated, but we have no money and it is not going to happen. There is no point in trying to fool anyone. Unless there is a crock of gold in a tree somewhere, there will be no compensation payments. However, people are beginning to realise that they must ensure their forestry. Through the 25 discussion groups set up, those who planted in the early 1990s to avail of the premium are beginning to realise that their crop is worth thinning and minding. The responsibility must lie with the people who planted. They cannot simply depend on the premium payments. However, forestry is a great investment. By keeping the industry constantly to the fore, people will be confident enough to invest in it. In some areas farms of 30 or 40 acres may be left to sons or daughters who have left their home place and do not wish to farm. Such land could be used for forestry and that is where the 37% increase will come from. I am informed that demand for land for forestry is beginning to increase again in traditional forestry areas, which is good.
Many members mentioned the need for good roads to take thinned timber out of forests. I went to County Leitrim during the summer because there was a stand-off there. I went with staff from the county council and Coillte and some private planters. My initial feeling was to wonder what people were complaining about, but when I saw the roads on which timber was to be transported out of forests, I could see that they were right to kick up. The roads would not last two days, with big lorries being driven on them. We set out a programme for County Leitrim which will then be extended to every county. We obtained the possible dates of thinning and final felling of all forests in County Leitrim and sent them to the county council on a disk. This allowed it to plan the road infrastructure. There were areas in which there was a big outtake of finished product and the road programme could be planned with this in mind. The council found the information very helpful. We received confirmation that councillors accepted the need to prioritise these forest roads when they learned that 13 million door frames per year were produced in County Leitrim. They accepted the economic benefit of the roads programme and that everyone had to work together. The county council has a map on which to plan for the next ten to 15 years. This has now been done for every county and the information will be sent to the relevant bodies. I hope county councillors will get involved in the programme.
In conjunction with the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government, a programme for road building must be worked out. If we do not work one out, we cannot expect an owner of ten,15 or 20 acres of land to put down a lump sum of €10,000 to cover the cost of roads. We are working with the Department in order that instead of people involved in the forestry industry having to go to three Departments - the Department of Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht is also involved because of the hen harrier, unenclosed lands and so on - a forestry grower will only deal with the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine, with guidelines from the other Departments involved. That is all now in place. If it does not happen, there will be consternation because people will be prevented from getting involved in thinning to get the best value out of their forestry and work on the idea of renewable energy will be delayed.
Deputy Michael Colreavy spoke about exports. We are selling as much timber as we were during the Celtic tiger years. We talked about some people going to Northern Ireland. One cannot beat competition. This is still the one island and competition between here and there keeps the price up for everyone. I may be wrong in saying that, but competition is the name of the game.
Deputy Michael Colreavy also spoke about a commitment to forestry. Dedicating land to forestry is a serious commitment. Once land is planted the landowner is, more or less, committed for life. The only way to ensure this commitment will continue is by keeping the premiums up, but that will be a tough task in the budget next year. We were lucky this year to be able to carry over capital funding of €29 million. We must look again and ensure we are able to keep up the premiums.
Deputy Thomas Pringle talked about the sale of Coillte which is, certainly, an issue. However, I will not have a say in that decision. I am making it clear to all concerned that the forestry industry is a very good one and if a sale takes place, the last penny will have to be got out of it. The issue, however, is complicated. My personal opinion is that when something is doing very well, one should not try to sell it at a bad price. I have no doubt that people have been given the task of making sure that if it does happen, the maximum amount of money will be got out of it. Meanwhile, we must let people know how good the industry is. Every day 50 full loads of product leave the Coillte premises in Clonmel. The same is true of many of the other factories. That is a lot of product and it is bringing in a considerable amount of money. This should not be thrown away, no matter what anyone says. There are many complications surrounding the possible sale of Coillte. We must ensure the industry is not closed down, for one reason or another, and that no one is left without timber. I have no doubt the Government will not make a decision lightly. This is too good an industry to sell at a cheap price. I have made my feelings known on the issue.
Deputy Tom Barry talked about tree nurseries. One of my first visits as Minister of State was to nurseries in counties Wicklow and Wexford. They depend so much on the use of 7,000 or 10,000 hectares of land and if there is a blip, the whole enterprise can be a failure. This is, therefore, a big issue.
Deputy Tom Barry also spoke about boilers. I was not familiar with that aspect of the scheme. People who have a few pounds - it is surprising how many who do - are installing pellet boilers. It is a matter of taking a leap of faith and changing from oil to wood pellets. The other day I was in a house that had a wood pellet boiler which had settings from 1 to 4. Although it was set at 1, the husband and wife were both in their shirt sleeves and the back door was open on a cold winter's day. It is a simple system to use and wood pellets can be bought in 50 kg bags or by the tonne. The cost is about €250 a tonne for a three tonne load, which would last the winter. It helps to cut out oil bills.
Many have been reluctant to progress to using wood energy products because of the REFIT tariff. I still do not understand why the application for the tariff was allowed to lie for 12 or 15 months. My first meeting as Minister of State was on this issue, I think in Mullingar. We brought it to the attention of the Minister and the Taoiseach, and actions were put in place straight away. There was a bit of an objection as we know, but we had our meeting with representatives from Coillte and they decided not to appeal that. I was delighted it did not happen. We had a very good meeting with them in our offices. Many people have come forward since then.
Bord na Móna now has a big intake in people growing grasses. Instead of importing hundreds of thousands of tonnes of palm kernel or waste material, they are now looking at growing the different types of grasses or the willows, or they are getting involved in thinnings. I was in Clonmel the other day and even the branches of the trees are being brought into the factories and used to provide the heat that goes into the drying of timber. We spoke about our timber being wet and we spoke about the hardwoods. Many of these places that are selling hardwoods have kilns into which the timber can be placed. If the timber is bought a year in advance and left to lie there, it will go from 60% to 30% to 40% and if it is then put into the kilns it will go back down to 20%. The hardwood sale of timber has increased by 18% across the country. There is great potential in this and we are committed to ensuring that the hardwoods continue to grow.
Deer are causing one of the biggest problems we have with hardwood in Wicklow. I will be seen as a cruel Minister of State if I talk about this, but the deer problem has to be addressed. I am not talking about the slaughtering of deer, but a proper management system like they have in Scotland. We have not really spoken about this, but it must be put first on the agenda. They are moving up into our area, which is the poor end of the county in north Meath. That is true. It is a big issue for anybody who has an interest in forestry and it must be dealt with. It can be mixed with a lot of things. I was with a farmer in Wicklow and one morning he went out to his field of silage and there were 200 deer sitting on it. He would never cut the silage after that because they would eat it up in no time. That is an issue, but it has to be done in a proper way.
Senator Mooney spoke about littering. I know exactly what he means. I come from the poor end of County Meath. Members were laughing at me when I said that, but there is a bit of bogland up there. However, there are many good plantations as well and we had a serious problem with littering. Coillte put up barriers and it has enforcements in place. Local authorities sometimes clean up the mess, but local active groups are constantly on the phone saying that there is a problem. Anytime somebody rang me about a problem with Coillte, that organisation dealt with it. There were problems in Kentstown and in other areas. Perhaps people were not happy with the way the site was left, and Coillte was very good to deal with that. People were cutting timber or dumping rubbish, and Coillte workers came in and blocked it off. We will constantly inform people, through PR initiatives and so on, not to be afraid to lift the phone, because Coillte and the private sector people will react. I must compliment the people in Coillte who do react. There is nothing as bad as littering. We can get lorry loads of it and it creates a mess. The local authorities and the local gardaí are quite good in certain areas as well.
We had a serious problem just three miles up the road from me. It took a lot of time and effort, and a neighbourhood watch was set up. People spent weeks and weeks just cleaning up in an area where forest was attached to bogland. It was a lovely walking area. People would park their cars and go walking, only to be met with this littering. The locals have taken things to hand, along with the local authorities and Coillte.
What about the fracking issue?
I never knew what fracking was. There is a new word in the dictionary every few months in the Department, but this is the first I have heard about Coillte and the land. We will come back to the Senator on this and we will get a straight answer. If it is true, it is true. If it is not true, it is not true. We spoke about the suitability of land for replanting. I know that lands were planted which did not work. It went for eight to ten years and the next thing was that the plant died. There is no point in planting those areas again and Coillte is recognising that. There are enclosed areas and unenclosed areas. I am going to Kerry on a fact finding mission next week to look at enclosed and unenclosed lands, but there is no point in wasting money on land that will not grow forestry. It is a waste of time and money. We might as well go for the best. Forestry in the right type of land will grow quickly and will be harvested quickly.
Through the Chair, the suggestion is that they will use forestry as a cover in order to prevent images that are not in keeping with the environment.
We will come back to the Senator on that.
The hen harrier issue was covered. We are working with the Minister for Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht to get everybody to understand that issue. There is a breeding period during which felling does not take place. People who live in a sensitive area should come forward six or nine months earlier than anybody else, if they are waiting for licences and so on, and go through the problems. They will not go away. I would like to learn a bit more about the hen harrier issue before I make any more comments.
We have started to work on next year's budget already. We started to work the minute we took office and I must compliment the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine on that. The first meetings we had were about budgets. In July I thought I would be gone out of forestry by Christmas because through the work of the Department, nobody was badly damaged in our budget. We have already started to think about everything, but the one way to guarantee as good a budget next year is through good PR on the industry. There are 50 loads per day leaving our factories. Factories are running 24 hours a day, seven days a week. The energy potential from the ash of the oak is increasing all the time. I know there are serious grants available in Northern Ireland for putting in a boiler for wood pellets, but I do not know from where they are getting the money.
They are printing it.
Once these boilers are in operation, they save money before long. I will not talk about grants because I could be committed to say something more.
When we sat down to discuss the budget, we were very worried about the acres and whether they would come in at all. What is happening in Ireland is that people who might have a few euro now want a safe bet, rather than invest in buildings across the world and Bank of Ireland shares, like we did for years. I think timber is a very safe bet. I am hopeful that the 7,000 ha. will happen this year. We will then try to increase it by 500 ha. per year, or whatever. The fluctuation of acres has a serious impact on people's minds on whether they will plant the land or give €500 for a bull calf who will lose money after that. In my opinion, such people are better off planting the land. Coming from a strong dairy area in County Meath, I know that many people involved in dairy and beef are beginning to talk about planting a little bit of ground for many reasons. We are going to increase our dairy and beef production, and it is the best way of offsetting carbon. It is a solid investment. As I said, a lot of farmers did well but invested in some stupid projects at home and abroad.
Senator Michael Comiskey raised the issue of walks and forestry. Local people should contact my Department with a good idea and we will work in conjunction with Tourism Ireland and Coillte. A lot more can be made of walks and forests.
With regard to forest fires, the more forest groups in an area the better. If they bring in somebody to thin or cut a forest eight or ten fellows might bring in one machine on the same day to do it. They should work in conjunction with the IFA and my Department. The more groups that get together the better. We have collaboration in the dairy sector and it is being done in the beef sector and we can push forward with forestry groups.
We have talked about the environment and I know it is a big issue. Lighter machinery can only be used in some areas and that may mean using a horse. I have never thought of that before but it is a solution. Forests were damaged but Coillte was quick to respond.
The Chairman raised the issue of planning permission. It is an ongoing problem and we are trying to get everyone to work together. If people with planted areas miss two or three thinnings they will lose extra lump sums. Planning permission should be streamlined and we should not curtail people with thinned plantations because they just do not have the money. We must adopt a sensible approach and the best way to do that is to point out to county councils how important forestry is. When the Leitrim case was highlighted it was lovely for me to receive a letter of thanks. My staff put the data together in half the time that I expected it to take them. It was done in a professional manner. A disc and map was sent to Leitrim County Council showing everything that happened in the forest area from the first year to the year of cutting, thus enabling the county council to plan. Some of the councillors were 100% right. I do not know which political party they were from and I do not care. They were right to protect the area that I had seen. Once the value of the forest was pointed out to the county council it could plan its roadmap for a five or six-year period and make better use of the area in north Leitrim. Money can be better used to fund that road thus ensuring it is in good condition from the start. One does not mind people making some contribution but one cannot have cowboys destroying roads in a plantation. There is no problem getting them to produce money for bigger plantations. Small growers must be given some help otherwise they will not realise the full value of their forestry. I shall conclude but will answer more questions.
I thank the Minister of State and his officials for attending and thank him for dealing with all of the issues in a frank and open manner.
I wish to make a comment about litter that did not occur to me until the Minister of State started to respond to questions. The stakeholders in the Wicklow Uplands Council set up a project some years ago that subsequently received the PURE award from the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government. It is worth Googling to find out more about PURE. A truck, provided by Coillte, goes out on the road with a co-ordinator and the Department funds the scheme through its local authority. The National Parks and Wildlife Service also puts some money into the project along with South Dublin County Council and Wicklow County Council. There is also a freephone number available. They keep the area clean because walking is so important. It is worth examining the project because it works.
I thank the Minister of State and his officials for attending and for his presentation. As he said, forestry and the forest resource is essential in many ways. The committee is acutely aware of that and is anxious to assist him in any way. By raising issues with him I hope that he will bring our concerns to the attention of his colleagues with a view to resolving them. As there is no further business the meeting stands adjourned.
The joint committee adjourned at 4.15 p.m. until noon on Tuesday, 21 February 2012.