The purpose of the meeting is to discuss the value for money function of the Commission for Taxi Regulation with Ms Kathleen Doyle, Commissioner for Taxi Regulation. I welcome Ms Doyle and Ms Jennifer Gilna, head of corporate affairs at the Commission for Taxi Regulation. I draw witnesses' attention to the fact that while members of the committee have absolute privilege, the same privilege does not apply to witnesses appearing before the committee. Members are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the Houses or an official either by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable. I propose that we hear a short presentation by Ms Doyle followed by questions from members.
Value for Money: Discussion with Commission for Taxi Regulation.
Ms Kathleen Doyle
I thank the Chairman and members of the joint committee for inviting me to appear before them today. Our submission has been circulated to members. I will outline the key points of it before taking questions.
On page two of our presentation it outlines the background to the Commission for Taxi Regulation, which was established in September 2004. The principal function of the commission is the development and maintenance of a regulatory framework for the control and operation of small public service vehicles and their drivers. On page three of your presentation, you will note our mission statement "to achieve a first class, professional, efficient, safe and accessible customer-friendly service for small public service vehicle passengers and service providers."
Page four outlines the key functions of the commission under its statutory obligations for the reform of the industry relative to qualitative standards. These include setting standards for vehicles in terms of vehicle size, specification and seating for the comfort and safety of passengers; improving driver standards through the introduction of new training, with emphasis on the required knowledge to operate in the industry; and consistency in the taxi fares charged nationally. As a licensing authority, the commission sets terms and conditions for granting vehicle licences and the standards required for booking services for dispatch operator licences. The commission also supports the Garda Síochána in licensing drivers, testing licence applicants and providing identification for display in vehicles and smart cards to be carried by drivers.
In regard to another of the commission's key functions, enforcement, we have taken over the processing of national complaints from the Garda. We have established joint enforcement operations with the Garda and have put in place fixed charge penalties and a prosecution function.
Page 5 of the presentation describes the regulatory model for the industry here. The structure of the industry closely follows that suggested by economic principles in that there is free entry to market but maximum fare control in respect of taxis. The OECD and World Bank favour the Irish approach to regulation and the former emphasises the value of quality regulation combined with entry deregulation. The OECD recognises that the large increases in taxi numbers in Ireland and New Zealand indicated severe restrictions on supply prior to liberalisation. The commission's objective on enhancing vehicle and driver standards is a particularly valuable initiative and a similar approach is being followed in other jurisdictions. Other countries which have adopted regulatory models similar to Ireland's have experienced greatly improved supply while in the main maintaining quality standards. Examples include Austria, the Netherlands and Japan, as well as approximately half of all UK local authorities and Washington DC, which is similar to Ireland in terms of significantly increased supply and a slowed rate of entry. The Irish model is required to ensure continued fair competition and high quality standards in vehicle and service provision.
On page six, the presentation outlines the position prior to liberalisation compared to the present. Members will note that features of the current position include increased supply and customer satisfaction with shorter waiting times. Several new reforms have been introduced, including licensing arrangements, fares, increased supply of wheelchair accessible vehicles, national complaints procedures, stronger enforcement, new vehicle and driver and dispatch operator standards, a national register of licences, formal publications and a new and informative website.
On page seven it sets out the commission's action plan for 2006 and 2007 and outlines the changes introduced over this period. These include a national vehicle licensing system, a national register of licences, a national taximeter area, a new national taxi fare, a new complaints process, enhanced consumer protection, improved information and awareness campaigns, national consumer and industry telephone lines, stronger enforcement with on the spot penalties and commission prosecutions and the publication of new vehicle standards.
The presentation also sets out our action plan for 2008 and 2009. While continuing the reforms set out in the 2006-07 plan, we are introducing several initiatives over this period, namely, implementing new vehicle standards for taxis and hackneys, a driver skills development programme, rolling out the skills development test for small public service vehicle drivers and dispatch operators, licensing dispatch operators, improving services for people with disabilities, ongoing development of guidelines, including on accessibility, for taxi ranks nationally and a quality assurance scheme, work on which is to commence at the end of 2009.
On page nine, we set out the six public consultation processes which have been entered into since 2005. The sixth consultation process, which took place in 2009, comprised an economic review of the industry. This review was undertaken in late 2008 and the findings were published in March 2009. The process in all cases includes invitations for submissions, consideration of submissions received, meetings with stakeholders, consideration of views received at these meetings and advice and input received from the advisory council to the commission. The advisory council is a body set up under part 4 of our parent Act to advise the commission and the Minister on issues pertaining to small public service vehicles, SPSVs, and has representatives from all stakeholders including local authorities, the Garda, consumers, people with disabilities, business, tourism, the Competition Authority and the Road Safety Authority. Following the full process, decisions are then reached for appropriate reform of industry. The outcome from the current consultation process will form part of the work programme for late 2009 and beyond.
Page ten sets out the funding model for the commission. The commission is now a self-financing body and fees accrue to the commission from vehicle licensing, driver licensing and fixed charge penalties. Dispatch operator licensing fees will accrue when licensing commences later in 2009. Income shall be applied for the purpose of meeting the expenses of the commission in discharging its functions. Any surplus income shall be disposed of in a manner determined by the commission with the consent of the Minister for Transport and the Minister for Finance. The commission is obliged to submit its accounts to the Comptroller and Auditor General for audit and following the audit annual report financial statements are provided to the Minister for Transport. The commission complies with public sector financial management requirements including internal audits, annual audits by the Comptroller and Auditor General and the introduction of cost savings across expenditure following Department of Finance instructions. The commission has maintained an efficient cost base since its establishment with the appropriate measures in place including procurement obligations. We estimate the cost of regulation is €200 per licence holder.
On page eleven, the presentation outlines the commission's resources. We currently have a small dedicated team of staff to meet the commission's statutory objectives and to ensure effective daily operations. These operations include customer services for licensing and information requirements, project management, complaints, enforcement operations, legal services to include regulatory, advisory and prosecution services, corporate management to include financial controls and risk management, management of outsourced services and internal organisational requirements. The three core areas of licensing to be managed by the small team for 2008 and 2009 are vehicle licensing, SPSV driver licensing and dispatch operator licensing.
The Commission has ensured effective and efficient operations through outsourcing. This includes national vehicle licensing in 43 centres nationally for 27,000 vehicles, contact management, administration support, driver identification for more than 47,000 drivers, a public awareness campaign on use of licensed vehicles, public relations, internal organisational requirements including IT development and support, human resources and finance.
The presentation outlines the additional outsourcing required for 2008 and 2009 on page thirteen. We undertook the economic review of the industry and preparation of guidelines for the provision of taxi ranks incorporating accessibility is ongoing. Other operations include administration of SPSV driver licensing, administration of dispatch operator licensing, the development of skills development programme materials — including a manual and DVD — and skills development programme testing. There is a new contract for vehicle licensing and vehicle suitability testing nationally. Commission staff are required for input into all outsourced activities at project management level and the commission will require additional staff to continue effective operations and to manage outsourcing. The commission will also require additional staff to transfer the administration of driver licensing from the Garda to the commission as administering 47,000 licences is a great deal of work.
The presentation outlines statistics relating to all SPSVs for 2007 and 2008; the number of licenses increased. Driver license statistical information is also given and we receive this data from the Garda Síochána; again, it will be seen that there was an increase in drivers entering the industry from 2007 to 2008.
The presentation also shows consumer complaints, an area we took over from the Garda Síochána. There was a slight fall in complaints from 763 in 2007 to 601 2008. The variety of complaints covered is outlined. Fixed charge offences are also outlined and there were few of these in 2007 due to commencement in November of that year. In 2008, 258 fixed charge penalties were issued by our enforcement team. It sets out the prosecution function of the Commission for Taxi Regulation. We carried out a small number of prosecutions in 2007 because we commenced them after recruiting our enforcement team late in the year. In 2008 there were 106 prosecutions involving 117 charges. It finally shows the number of calls to our industry and consumer lines in 2008 and the breakdown of the type of calls received. The majority — 43,000 — were from industry with 10,000 coming from consumers.
I welcome the taxi regulator and the head of corporate affairs. They have been before the Joint Committee on Transport on several occasions and, on the last day, they gave the figures for new entrants to the industry, as well as the exit numbers. The regulator said the two figures were not quite in equilibrium and that the number of new entrants had dropped. Can she give us the figures?
Taxi queues are getting longer everywhere, particularly during the day, with the economy in a difficult state and people having less money. A moratorium would mean no new entrants, regardless of the economic climate. Can the regulator assure us that, under the new rules, entry into the industry will require more knowledge of a geographical area? She said there would be uniformity of testing and I understand that, at the moment, a written test is not obligatory in some areas. Taxi drivers and the public want higher standards and better regulation.
Taxi drivers say they are experiencing difficult times because of the economy. Can Ms Doyle elaborate on her point about the churning of licences? The Deloitte report was published last December and did not recommend a moratorium but the economic climate has deteriorated since then. Does the regulator have a view on that?
Ms Kathleen Doyle
There has been a sharp decline in new entrants since the middle of last year and that has continued in 2009. Early last year there were approximately 350 applications for new vehicle licences but there are now only 100 or less new vehicle licensing applications each month.
The Deputy asked about the churning of licences. Slightly less than 1% of drivers transfer licences, for all sorts of reasons such as retirement or a decision to leave the industry. The Deputy also asked about the queues of taxis and there is certainly a strong supply but there was an increase of 25% in consumer usage between our economic review of 2005 and the latest in 2008.
Small public service vehicles are now being used more than other forms of road transport, so a taxi culture has developed. With increased quality standards consumer demand will also increase.
Given that the economic situation has changed, has Ms Doyle reassessed the situation since the report of December 2007?
Ms Kathleen Doyle
The economic climate has changed since. We are in the middle of a consultation process following the publication of that economic review. We had several submissions from the industry. We have met industry representatives and then we will look to see what other new reforms and changes can be put in place to address all of the problems the industry is experiencing, including working hours, earnings and long queuing at taxi ranks.
The other point they raised was the question of people driving taxis part time. Obviously, when there is need for more supply, it is right and proper that they come out drive. Nevertheless, full-time taxi drivers are losing out. They are working Monday to Friday and they are not getting the carriage whereas others at weekends can. Is Ms Doyle addressing the issue that the working time directive does not apply to taxi drivers who, theoretically, could do 40 hours in a place of employment and then 20 plus hours over a weekend. How will that directive be enforced in terms of safety?
Ms Kathleen Doyle
That is an issue we will look at as part of this process. While we cannot restrict somebody who wishes to work part time, there are obligations on such persons to act in a responsible manner, for instance, relative to driver fatigue. Certainly, we will look at the part-time and full-time issue and at employers being aware that they may have employees operating in the industry outside of those hours and what contractual arrangements should be in place. All of those matters are part of this consultation process and they all are being considered.
When does Ms Doyle expect to have that data and her report ready, having consulted all of these parties?
Ms Kathleen Doyle
We are nearly finished the consultation process with all the stakeholders. We will then go to the advisory council. We indicated to the council the response we got from the consultation process. We are now looking at several options for the industry to improve it for the future. We will go to the advisory council later this year with those options on which it will deliberate and come back with advice to the commission, following which we will then have an action plan arising out of this economic review.
Does she reckon it will be September?
Ms Kathleen Doyle
It would probably be in September.
I welcome Ms Doyle and Ms Gilna to the committee. Ms Doyle has been before the committee previously. Specifically, I spoke to Ms Doyle previously about the taxi drivers in Limerick city. I looked at Ms Doyle's economic review of the small public service vehicle industry on which there are currently consultations. First, who is responsible for issuing taxi licences?
Ms Kathleen Doyle
There are two separate licences: a vehicle licence and a driver licence. The commission is responsible for granting vehicle licences and the Garda Síochána grants the driver licence.
If a moratorium was to be declared on the issuing of taxi licences, who makes that call?
Ms Kathleen Doyle
My role is in quality standards. I do not have any role in quantitative restrictions.
Does Ms Doyle advise the Minister? Is this purely at the behest of the Minister? Is this within the Minister for Transport's domain?
Ms Kathleen Doyle
It is not within my role and it is not in my role to advise the Minister. The Minister can advise me on policy but it is not my role to advise the Minister. My role is purely relative to quality standards.
If a moratorium was imposed, is it correct that Ms Doyle would have to be advised by the Minister that no further licences should be issued?
Ms Kathleen Doyle
That is correct.
I note Ms Doyle in her report makes the point that part-time drivers are much more likely to supply services on days of peak demand than are their full-time counterparts and, therefore, part-time drivers make a valuable contribution to meeting peak demands.
We are getting various representations from taxi drivers of which Ms Doyle will be well aware. The other point is that part-time drivers clearly would take up the hours in which there is most business and the full-time drivers end up doing astronomically long hours outside of the peak hours just to make a living. That paragraph does not quite state the obvious. It does not do justice to the full-time drivers and that is our difficulty.
My colleague, Deputy O'Dowd, referred to the drop in demand in 2009. Ms Doyle stated that there was an increase in demand of up to 25%. I presume that was up to 2008, whereas now 2009 is really the benchmark year. I hope that following the consultation Ms Doyle will come back with up-to-date figures for 2009.
Ms Doyle states in the report that of taxi drivers who have another occupation, one third work between 30 and 45 hours a week in that occupation. One in five drivers with two occupations works in excess of 75 hours a week in total. Is Ms Doyle comfortable with somebody working that number of hours? Clearly they are working another 30 to 40 hours a week as taxi drivers. From a safety viewpoint, does she think that is sustainable? Has she an up-to-date figure for the number of additional taxi drivers this year in Limerick city? The drivers in Limerick city request that staff members from the office of the regulator look at the operation of the taxi industry in the city over a period. Consumers want a safe, efficient service that meets their needs, but side by side we must take cognisance of the significant number of full-time taxi drivers who are under enormous financial pressure. Many would have bought licences prior to deregulation and have enormous financial burdens. All they want is a sense of fair play. I am aware Ms Doyle met the taxi drivers in Limerick. Will she comment on those points?
Ms Kathleen Doyle
I have the statistical information to give the Deputy an idea of the number of vehicles operating in Limerick. At present there are 925 vehicles.
Is the figure of 925 a decrease of five on the 2008 figure?
Ms Kathleen Doyle
Yes, the number has decreased by five.
May I have a breakdown in terms of the four categories, hackneys, limos, taxis and taxis for the disabled?
Ms Kathleen Doyle
For Limerick, we have 210 hackney licences, 57 limousine licences, 619 taxi licences and 39 wheelchair accessible taxi licences.
While the number of taxi licences has increased, the number of wheelchair accessible vehicles has decreased.
Ms Kathleen Doyle
May I point out that when I give statistical information, it is taken from a database on a monthly basis, so it is taken at a point in time.
What is the date of the Limerick statistics?
Ms Kathleen Doyle
The statistical information is from 1 June 2009. If some people allowed their licence to expire and came in on the following day, the numbers would change on the following day.
The Deputy referred to the lengthy working hours and we are very conscious of the hours that people are working in this highly competitive market. Some people are working between 60 and 75 hours a week, which is a cause of worry and we are concerned about it.
That is just to make a living.
Ms Kathleen Doyle
We are looking at the long hours from the perspective of driver fatigue, health and safety and part-time and full-time workers. We are looking at all the issues as part of the consultation process to see how we can address the problem. While we cannot restrict people who may wish to work part time, we need to capture information about their activities outside those hours. That will also be part of this process.
Will Ms Doyle comment on the possibility of appointing a person to look at the regulation of the taxi industry in the city?
Ms Kathleen Doyle
The Deputy referred to looking at the situation in the city. We have a nationwide brief. We look at the whole country. Our enforcement officers travel around the country on enforcement operations. We also work closely with local gardaí in all the various areas. We have joint operations with the Garda Síochána. In addition, there are also PSV inspectors stationed in each county who work very closely with us and we are part of the PSV inspectors group as well. We have people in the area, but they are not always visible. We have nine enforcement officers but we work closely with the Garda to ensure we have more joint operations and we are part of the Garda Síochána national strategy for enforcement operators across the country.
Let me make the following key point. In the context of the report by the regulator, does she have a view on a possible moratorium on issuing new licences given that we have reached a point where so many working in the industry are experiencing difficulties? I am particularly concerned about those drivers who have been working in the industry for a significant period and for whom it is their sole livelihood. Many such persons have young families and have invested substantially in the business. Does the regulator consider there is merit in some type of moratorium by, for example, attaching stricter controls in terms of knowledge of the business and the areas in which drivers operate?
Ms Kathleen Doyle
I do not see merit in a moratorium as a solution to the current problems in the industry. Moreover, such a move would be anti-competitive. Ultimately, the market will determine the number of cabs on the road. That is already happening with the decline in new entrants since the middle of last year.
The issue is that people who have been working full-time in the industry for many years are competing with part-drivers who have other incomes and have obtained their taxi licences at a relatively low cost. We all know the peak times are from Thursday night to late Sunday morning. How can we ensure that people are able to safeguard their livelihood? In many cases, those who may be forced out of the industry will not have the option of alternative employment. This is the human perspective. We all want a taxi industry that provides a good service, but what does the regulator see as the solution to these problems?
Ms Kathleen Doyle
I am very conscious of the Deputy's concerns. However, people make an informed choice to enter the industry in a self-employed capacity——
My concerns relate in particular to those who entered the industry well prior to deregulation or shortly before it.
Ms Kathleen Doyle
Significant numbers have been in the industry well in advance of deregulation, but the majority have entered since liberalisation. The latter group availed of the opportunity to come into an industry that was previously restricted. It would be anti-competitive to reintroduce restrictions at this stage. Road hauliers, private bus operators, couriers and so on are in a similar situation in that there are no restrictions in terms of operation and anybody can make a self-informed choice to enter those industries.
What about the requirements regarding number of hours worked?
Ms Kathleen Doyle
There are regulations in place whereby one can only work 11 hours in any three consecutive days, but they are not being enforced because there is no tachograph technology in vehicles. It is not something for which the industry currently has an appetite. We are still looking at how we can record working hours into the future, with a view to enhancing the capability of taxi meters currently installed in vehicles.
When does the regulator expect the consultations she is undertaking to conclude?
Ms Kathleen Doyle
We hope to conclude them in August and to make an announcement in September.
I welcome the regulator. Are there any statistics for the numbers who use taxis, hackneys and limousines on a regular basis? Do taxi and hackney licences remain valid for a particular timeframe, whether five years, ten years, for the lifetime of the applicant or otherwise? Are licences a tradeable commodity? Will the regulator outline the general criteria for the issue of licences and the calibre of individual required?
Ms Kathleen Doyle
The economic review undertaken last year indicated that 100 million trips were taken in 2008, putting a value of some €1.5 billion on the industry. It also outlined that taxis, hackneys and limousines are used much more than other forms of public transport, namely, trains and buses.
Deputy Kirk asked about the length of time for which licences are valid. A vehicle licence is valid for one year, while a driver licence, which is granted by the Garda Síochána, is valid for five years. The Commission for Taxi Regulation, which will take over the administration of driver licences from the Garda Síochána, will reduce the length of time for which licences are valid from five to three years.
The Deputy asked whether licences are tradeable. While taxi licences may transfer from one person to another, it is not possible to transfer hackney and limousine licences. In 2007, we issued a public consultation paper to the industry to determine whether it would like the practice of transfer to continue. At that point, the industry wanted the practice to continue. The reasons varied. For example, in the event that they fall ill, taxi drivers would like to have someone else operate their vehicles or, in the event of death, they would like their spouse to have some form of income from the taxi vehicle. We are reviewing the transferability of licences as part of the consultation process.
The criteria for obtaining a driver licence and vehicle licence are slightly different. For the latter, the vehicle's roadworthiness and suitability must be tested, a tax clearance certificate is required and appropriate insurance for a small public service vehicle must be obtained. The vehicle is presented to a national car test centre for the various testing and licensing arrangements. To obtain a driver licence, a full driving licence and tax clearance certificate are required before an application may be made to the Garda Síochána. Applicants must also be vetted by the Garda before they will be granted a small public service vehicle driver licence.
Testing for small public service vehicle drivers was raised. We have introduced a new skills development programme. I have with me a manual used in the programme, which is supported by a DVD. The programme commenced in May and is being rolled out with for the purpose of ensuring consistency throughout the country on the requirements to operate in the industry. The manual provides the knowledge required to undertake the test. The new testing arrangements commence in July 2009.
I welcome our guests from the Commission for Taxi Regulation. As I do not have extensive knowledge of the taxi licensing system, I ask their forgiveness if I repeat questions asked by my colleagues. Like Deputy O'Donnell, I have a great deal of sympathy with established taxi drivers who wish to have a relatively normal job, in other words, working mainly during the day and not many weekends while enjoying a decent income. At the same time, I would not like part-time drivers to be driven out of the industry because additional capacity is required on Thursday evenings and at weekends. I am young enough to remember having to queue for three hours on Saturday nights to get a taxi home from the city. While liberalisation of the taxi industry has given rise to problems, at the same time we must not return to the previous position. The Commissioner for Taxi Regulation receives considerable abuse for doing her job but we should also acknowledge recent successes in the taxi industry.
Ms Doyle stated the cost of regulation is roughly €200 per licence owner. I understand the annual charge to licence holders is approximately €230, although I may be wrong in that. Is the regulator self-funding or potentially profitable or does it require a subsidy from the taxpayer? I also understand it is Government policy to integrate the Office of the Commission for Taxi Regulation in the Dublin Transport Authority. Given that the regulator has a national brief, how will this measure work? Will we have two regulators, one for Dublin and another for the rest of the country?
On the broader issue, I appreciate that a moratorium is not within the remit of the regulator. From the statistics the commissioner has presented, there appears to be too many taxis in Dublin. It is sometimes difficult to drive around St. Stephen's Green or down Dawson Street owing to the large number of taxis at the ranks. Despite having approximately one third of the population of the State and the best public transport facilities, 13,000 of 27,000 public service vehicle licences and 20,000 of the 46,000 driver licences were issued in Dublin. Given that the capital has only one third of the population and probably has the best public transport, one would expect Dublin to account for less than one third of licences and drivers. What is Ms Doyle's view of that issue? Does she agree that Dublin has too many taxis and, if so, why does she think that is the case?
In regard to fares, I am happy to plug the taxi companies located in Blanchardstown and Dublin 15 which offer 20% discounts on call out charges. However, while this can be seen as evidence that the market is working does it not also indicate a failure of regulation in that the approved increase in taxi fares was greater than 8% whereas the market is providing a 12% decrease? We are experiencing deflation and I understand that most taxi drivers who responded to the commission's previous consultation exercise opposed the fare increase. Does Ms Doyle think she made the correct decision and does she intend to review it?
When will responsibility for driver licensing and standards be transferred from the Garda to the commission? Is it the intention to raise standards? I generally agree that we should not impose absolute barriers to entry but regulation should be about quality. Is taxi and driver quality satisfactory at present? Do we need to develop tests of drivers' language and local knowledge? Similar issues arise in respect of vehicle quality. I am not sure if Ms Doyle takes taxis around Dublin but, as someone who uses them regularly, I find that the quality of vehicles varies considerably compared to London, Berlin, Vienna or Washington DC. Do we need to develop higher standards?
Ms Kathleen Doyle
The figure of €200 which I mentioned for the cost of regulation is based on the budget for the commission's reform of the industry and is calculated according to expenditure in 2008 divided by the amount of licence holders during that period. The separate licence fee to which the Deputy referred is €250. We are self-funding and accrue licence fees from vehicle and driver licensing, fixed charge penalties and, from later in 2009, dispatch operator licensing.
Does that mean the commission is making a profit?
Ms Kathleen Doyle
In respect of vehicle licensing we have accumulated a surplus relative to the number of people entering the market over several years. However, this fund is no longer accruing because the numbers entering the industry had decreased since mid-2008 and the surplus will dissipate over a period.
I welcome that the commission is self-funding but I would not like to see it become a money spinner for the Government. Is it possible to reduce the fee or introduce a hardship fund for taxi drivers?
Ms Kathleen Doyle
That is not within my remit but we are considering ways of reinvesting the money in the industry. For example, the skills manual will be distributed for free to all 47,000 current licence holders and they will not be charged for the first test they have to undertake. Introducing the new driver skills standards will not represent a cost to incumbent members of the industry, therefore, and charges will only be imposed on new entrants.
On the number of taxis in Dublin, the roll out of the driver skills programme and vehicle standards for incumbent drivers, which is due to take effect on 1 January 2012, will improve the quality of vehicles because they will have to be newer than nine years old on that date. These standards currently apply to new entrants to the industry. They are being phased in for incumbents in the industry, due to the cost of replacing vehicles and so on. Many people have financial packages and we want to give them the opportunity to pay off loans before borrowing for new cars. Raising driver and vehicle standards by 2012 will lower the number of people in the industry. We are not trying to drive people out of the industry but we want to ensure high quality standards as they will increase consumer demand.
Regarding consumer demand, Deputy Varadkar mentioned a 20% discount in light of increases in taxi fares. We had a public consultation process on the increase in taxi fares. We first introduced a consistent taxi fare across the country in September 2006 and we committed to the industry that we would revisit the area every two years. We issued a public consultation paper in April 2008 and 81% of the industry requested a considerable increase as they were finding it difficult to cover operating costs. We evaluated the various costs and the 8.3% increase in fares represented the increase in the cost of operating in the industry between September 2006 and August 2008.
A person with a taxi faces many operating costs including a financial package, insurance, road tax, vehicle licence, the national car test, NCT, radio rental, meter equipment, meter recalibration and verification, driver licence renewal and airport permit charges. Then there are everyday running costs including fuel, servicing, spare parts, tyres, cleaning, labour and miscellaneous running costs. The 8.3% fare increase was to cover increases in these costs but due to the economic downturn many people are offering discounts. The fare set out is a national maximum fare and the driver may offer a discount at his or her discretion.
I covered the quality standards that were mentioned, but on language testing, a person will need a thorough knowledge of English to read the manual and undertake the new test that begins on 1 July 2009. This test will be held at all Prometric test centres around the country — driver theory tests are held in these centres. We will introduce a quality assurance scheme, which will be developed later this year, and this will assist in raising quality standards. The quality standard sticker will be displayed on taxis and it will cover vehicle quality, driving quality and booking services.
We are anxious to take the driver licensing function from the Garda Síochána and it is anxious to transfer responsibility to us, however, we are awaiting additional staff. We submitted a request for additional staff to help deal with this function to the Department of Transport in 2007. We will be licensing on behalf of 47,000 drivers and, while we have taken responsibility for the test, there is a good deal of work to be done with the Garda Síochána. The Garda will remain in charge of vetting and we will take over administration, which involves a great deal of work. We hope to take over soon, subject to resources.
What about the Dublin transport authority?
Ms Kathleen Doyle
We have been informed by the Department of Transport that we will be incorporated into the Dublin transport authority at a later stage. We have not received any further information on this. We will still hold our national brief on the regulation of taxis. I cannot say when we will be incorporated into the authority or whether the brief of the authority can be extended. I know that the Dublin Transport Authority Act 2008 allows for extension of the brief and I assume this is how it will be in future.
The Dublin transport authority would be the taxi regulator for the entire country.
Ms Kathleen Doyle
It may become the national transport regulator.
That would make sense but I do not understand how the Dublin transport authority could be the national taxi regulator.
Ms Kathleen Doyle
I do not know at what stage it is intended for us to join the new body. We have been informed that we will be incorporated at some stage as part of the rationalisation programme.
I expect that, like much of the Government's rationalisation programme, it is largely a verbal commitment that it does not mean to honour. I agree with rationalising State agencies but I do not see a clear logic in combining the national taxi regulator with the Dublin transport authority. It would make sense to have a national transport regulator.
Ms Kathleen Doyle
The legislation for the Dublin transport authority does not include us, so there will have to be an amendment. However, the Bill provides for us to work closely with the new authority.
Would the regulator care to place a bet on when that will happen?
Ms Kathleen Doyle
I have no idea. I have not been informed by the Department of Transport as to when it will happen.
I bet she has not been informed because it will not happen. It was added to the budget to make up the numbers for the agencies the Government would rationalise.
My next question is outside the regulator's remit but I am interested in her views. Ireland is a very difficult country in which to be self-employed. The self-employed, including taxi drivers, have no rights or protections. Does Ms Doyle see a future role for her office in running a sick pay scheme, a PRSA scheme or a pension scheme for taxi drivers?
Ms Kathleen Doyle
That is not within our remit. However, our manual includes a business section so that anybody thinking of coming into the industry, or those already in it, can find out the business requirements. It should discourage them from coming into the industry based on a casual decision. It should be an informed decision based on all the business requirements for operating in the industry.
There is a vote in the Dáil but two members wish to speak. Do they want to ask their questions now and await the replies from the witnesses in written form at a later date or do they want me to suspend and resume the meeting after the vote?
I will be very brief.
I have a couple of questions but wish to tease out a few issues.
I have no objection to coming back after the vote.
I do not mind.
We will suspend until the vote is over.
I join other members in welcoming the regulator. Will she clarify the extent of her powers and competences? Is she saying she does not have the authority to impose a moratorium on the issuance of licences and that it is a matter for the Government or the Minister? Is she saying she has no power even to make recommendations in that regard?
Ms Doyle referred to the new CD and manual. Will she clarify that from 1 July, new entrants to the market will have to undergo a more rigorous examination than is currently the case? Will existing licence holders have to take a revised examination? Driver knowledge is still severely lacking, particularly in Dublin. For a culchie such as myself who uses the city taxi service intermittently, to have to explain how to get to Coolock or another suburb indicates a serious lack of knowledge among some drivers. What is the regulator's view of the situation in London, where there is a rigorous examination process for drivers, with applicants having to undergo several examination stages before a licence is granted? Knowledge of the city is of paramount importance for London taxi drivers. Does the regulator envisage similar requirements being put in place in the future for Dublin taxi drivers?
I understand the CD and manual include a skills development programme. I admit to some scepticism in this regard. If I were a new entrant to the taxi industry driving around Mallow town, for example, the likelihood of me taking three or four hours to read a manual and listen to a CD would be slim. What information do these tools contain that will add qualitatively to one's experience as a taxi driver? What was the cost of producing them?
I represent a constituency that has a rural and urban mix. It is characterised by provincial towns, some of which are almost satellites of Cork city. While some of these towns do not have town councils, those which do, such as Mallow, Fermoy, Cobh, Midleton and Youghal, are encountering problems because of the increase in the number of licences. It is simply impossible to provide additional spaces in taxi ranks in certain town centres and an increase of two or three licences per annum in a town such as Mallow is significant in terms of the number of people who are plying for trade in off-peak hours. The issue is causing tension among traffic wardens and taxi licence holders. Incumbent drivers who work on a full-time basis see new entrants who are driving part time or not parking correctly. Is the regulator liaising with local authorities in regard to rectifying problems of this nature?
No mention was made in the presentation of the number of plates issued to cater for people with disabilities. The Labour Party published a document which recommended an initial target of making 20% of the fleet wheelchair accessible by 2012 and a longer term objective of 100% accessibility. How near is the current fleet to meeting these targets?
Ms Kathleen Doyle
The Deputy's first question concerned my powers to impose a moratorium. I do not have the power to introduce quantitative restrictions in what is now a liberalised market nor can I make recommendations to the Minister. Under the Taxi Regulation Act 2003, the Minister can advise me on policy but the converse is not permitted. I personally believe a moratorium would be anti-competitive. The market has already determined the number of cabs in that the numbers of new entrants and active operators have declined since the middle of last year. There is no restriction in other sectors which rely on our roads, such as the haulage industry, private buses or couriers. Washington DC, which was similar to Ireland in the number of cabs per thousand of population and which removed quantity restrictions several years ago, recently considered a moratorium. However, as the rate of entry to the industry in that city was also slowing down, it was decided that a moratorium would be anti-competitive.
I want to challenge the language used by Ms Doyle. She stated that there was a decline in the rate of new entrants relative to last year but the number of licences being issued is increasing. In County Cork, the number of licensed vehicles has increased from 2,238 to 2,382 and driver licences have increased from 4,285 to 4,555. She asserts that light touch regulation is the way to go and that the market should be allowed to settle into its own equilibrium. If I follow through on the logic of her argument, the rate of increase will probably drop to zero or 0.1%. Then the market will find its equilibrium. At the end of the day, it will have major consequences for the livelihood of people in full-time employment. It will have major consequences for smaller towns throughout the country which are not able to deal with the extra capacity. In towns such as Mallow, where more than 50 licences have been issued, the number of taxis is having a major impact on traffic movement in the town and is causing major tension for the existing licence holders. The regulator may say that the market will find its own level but the market is imperfect because one cannot apply the permutations of the market evenly across the country because of topography and geography.
The regulator may talk about Washington DC, which is a major metropolitan area, but when considering the issuance of licences in Ireland, one must take account of having too many licences in certain parts of the country. That is my central point. One has to factor that into the model when issuing licences. One cannot take a global figure and apply it globally because of the other factors that are not being taken into account.
Ms Kathleen Doyle
The Deputy's first point is relative to what I said about new entrants to the market, which has decreased since the middle of last year. Since the end of 2008 up to the current month, the number of licences actively operating in the industry has decreased. While we had 27,429 licences at the end of 2008, the number has reduced every month since that date and at the end of May 2009, we are down to 27,286. There has been a decrease in the number of people operating in the industry. We will reach a natural equilibrium and from the statistical information we have we can see it happening on a month by month basis and we are monitoring the situation very closely county by county. We are conscious that a difference of a few licences in a small area can have a significant impact. We are monitoring these statistics quite closely to see the difference on a month by month basis.
Has the regulator refused a licence on the basis of the negative permutations of adding one extra licence in a smaller town?
Ms Kathleen Doyle
We are looking at that issue as part of the public consultation process but we are not in a position to refuse the granting of a licence provided that somebody meets the criteria. We are in a liberalised open market so we cannot restrict people from coming into a market but we can set the standards for the market. That is what we are doing and it is part of our job.
How does the regulator propose to tackle the issue as part of her review if one does not propose the number of licences that will be issued?
Ms Kathleen Doyle
The number of licences issued is determined by the number of people who wish to enter the industry in a particular county. It is not for me as regulator to state that somebody cannot enter an open market that was liberalised by the Government in 2000. What we can do is offer information to would-be entrants to the market and that is what we propose to do in the future. We will publish statistical information so that would-be entrants will have an opportunity to see the number of taxi drivers in an area. They will look at the competition relative to other taxi drivers in their area and at the hackneys and limousines, the buses and other forms of transport. We will make that information available to new entrants.
A new programme is being rolled out across the country. The first test will be on 1 July 2009. The objective is to improve service standards in the industry and I acknowledge that many are offering a high level of service standards. It is to develop the skills required in the day-to-day operations in the industry and it also informs drivers and dispatch operators of up-to-date developments in legislation, which they would not have had since the Commission for Taxi Regulation was established. It will provide information on the role of the commission in the three key areas of regulation, licensing and enforcement. When everybody has undertaken this programme, it will raise the profile of the industry and will also increase public confidence in the delivery of service and, therefore, repeat business. It will also improve recognition of service excellence.
There are several modules in the programme. It includes the commission's role in the industry, the basic regulations we have put in place and the new reforms and changes in licensing, streamlining licensing, and so on. It also includes a module on the new vehicle standards we have introduced to operate in the industry, and on area knowledge. The latter includes the detailed knowledge of the area in which a driver proposes to operate and how to advise him or her on how to get that knowledge because he or she will need to demonstrate quite a high level of knowledge in any county in which he or she proposes to operate. Another module relates to customer services. That deals with the high level of quality services provided and dealing with persons with disabilities.
Earlier I mentioned the business module. That module will look at the various models that one can operate as a self-employed driver and all of the requirements that one needs to think about and know about before going into the industry. The last module is about staying safe. It is about driver hours, driver fatigue and manual handling, lifting, and so on.
The rigorous examination in the UK was mentioned. This is the first new consistent test to be introduced here. We will revisit it at a later stage. However, people will need to have all of the knowledge in this manual to operate in the industry and to pass the test. There are 90 questions in the test. Some 54 of them are on the six main modules and 36 questions are on the area of the county in which the person proposes to operate.
New drivers must complete the entire programme and current drivers will be exempt from the route selection and area knowledge unless we receive repeated complaints that a driver does not have knowledge of their area. If the latter is the case, we may ask the driver to re-sit the area knowledge part of the test.
Everybody must do the test: new drivers from 2009 and all current drivers. All 47,000 drivers must undertake this programme for the renewal of their licence by 2012.
Does that mean that some of them might be refused?
Ms Kathleen Doyle
We expect that most of those currently in the industry have a fairly good knowledge, certainly of parts of that manual. We will encourage them to undertake the test early. Current drivers can undertake the programme now and can sit the test from 1 July. We will encourage all of them to do the test as early as possible and have the skill certificate at the end.
On the increased number of taxi rank spaces required, we have consultants looking at the requirements and guidelines to provide to local authorities for taxi ranks nationally which will incorporate accessibility. That work is ongoing. We will provide guidelines to all of the local authorities nationally. We are in liaison with them because we are conscious of double parking, of congestion, and so on. That is lengthy work. It will take between nine and 18 months to complete. We have had a good response from the local authorities to work with us to prepare these guidelines.
On the number of vehicles for persons with disabilities, while there were approximately 1,600 at the end of 2008, we are conscious of the need to increase the number of vehicles for persons with disabilities. We published new vehicle standards because there are new vehicle standards required with EU regulations coming down the track. Therefore, the vehicles required to continue to provide the service for people with disabilities will be far more expensive than vehicles currently licensed as wheelchair accessible vehicles. Converting a vehicle from a goods vehicle to a wheelchair accessible vehicle will no longer be permitted and they must purchase passenger vehicles which can be converted for use for persons with disabilities.
Our original target was 10% of the fleet because we had written to the Minister for Transport about a subsidy for people to buy these extremely expensive vehicles to transport persons with disabilities. We originally applied for VRT and VAT to be removed and it was suggested that we might look for a subsidy instead. To meet this target of 10% in the first instance and then to increase that target to 20%, which is what the Irish Wheelchair Association wants, we will need intervention of some sort to assist people to purchase these vehicles.
In the meantime, there is a fleet of approximately 1,600 vehicles offering the service. We put new regulations in place last year where people who have wheelchair accessible licences, which incur a significantly reduced licence fee, must give priority to persons with disabilities and must keep records of those bookings. If we receive continued complaints from people that they cannot access the service, we will look for the records to ensure that they are given first priority to persons with disabilities.
Deputy Sherlock asked some of the questions I was to ask. How many of the driving licences and the vehicle licences are in daily use? People have licences which they leave sitting. How realistic is the picture that Ms Doyle paints?
Ms Kathleen Doyle
The picture relative to vehicle licences is——
And driver licences.
Ms Kathleen Doyle
——an active one because it is pulled from our own database. If persons renew their licences, which are yearly licences, we will assume that they are operating. They will not renew a vehicle licence because it is subject to an NCT and it will be subject to a suitability test from next year onwards.
Can Ms Doyle give statistics distinguishing between full-time and part-time drivers? To put it another way, looking at the numbers of licences and the counties, there is a disproportionate relationship between the number of drivers and the population in some counties. Topographically and other issues arise, as my learned colleague stated. Is there any analysis of that done?
Ms Kathleen Doyle
For driver licensing, we capture the information as it is passed to us from the Garda Síochána to populate our database but as part of the current consultation process, we are looking at how we can capture that information in the future. In other words, the application form, for instance, may need to be indicative of whether one is working full time or part time somewhere and how many hours one offers. Previously, there were regulations where one had to undertake to offer services for 40 hours a week but that regulation was removed by the then Minister for the Environment in 1998 as a result of pressure where people wanted to offer a part-time service and people who might want to work part time only also wanted to offer a service.
On the question of a multiple vehicle owner, I saw statistics some time ago that there are 200 persons who have more than six vehicles registered. Are there issues in that regard?
Ms Kathleen Doyle
We put regulations in place last year whereby if somebody has more than one vehicle licence, he or she must keep records of particular information on who will drive those vehicles, in other words, such owners must keep records and ensure that the driver has a proper small public vehicle driver licence and is insured to drive the vehicle. They must keep those records and produce them to us on request. We have requested all multiple vehicle licence holders to give us all the information on any third party who may be operating the vehicle on their behalf.
Would they also be obliged to have PSV driver licences as well?
Ms Kathleen Doyle
The person who drives must have a driver licence, but we are looking at that at present because there is a separation between the vehicle licence and the driver licence. For instance, there could be a fleet of vehicles owned by a company, which is offering services and may have drivers employed. That is fine because it is giving employment in the market. However, it also puts an onus on the company to ensure that each one of those persons has the proper driving licence.
Is the corollary that some of them may not have?
Ms Kathleen Doyle
In some instances the fleet owner or the vehicle owner may not, but as part of this consultation process we are looking at whether we will make such a requirement for the future.
will Ms Doyle give us an update on that as it happens? Can she give us an update on the statistics for the counties for both vehicle licences and driver licences?
Ms Kathleen Doyle
We are of the view that not all of the 47,000 driver licences issued are operating in the industry. Many apply for a small public service driver licence but may not necessarily operate in the industry. They have it on their CV or they may hold it for a further date.
Can Ms Doyle provide the link to the analysis of the Washington moratorium?
Ms Kathleen Doyle
That came from the economic review undertaken by Goodbody.
Fair enough. I thought it was new.
I do not want to delay Ms Doyle. She has been very forthcoming. The key question is, are there any other strategies she has not mentioned, short of a moratorium, that have been used in other jurisdictions that could be used to restrict entry without confining — in an uptake in an economy — new entrants coming into the market?
Ms Kathleen Doyle
The strategy used in most countries relates to raising the quality of standards, and continuing to raise standards. While we published vehicle standards in 2007 and we have been rolling them out in the past year and will roll them out over the coming years, and the new driver standards as well, these are matters we will continue to revisit. We will not just sit with the current level of vehicle standards. We will continue to increase those standards.
I thank Ms Doyle.
On behalf of the committee, I thank Ms Doyle and Ms Gilna and the members for their co-operation. I apologise for the unforeseen interruption while the votes were taking place.
At next Tuesday's meeting at 4 p.m. the Financial Services Ombudsman will be before the committee.