JOINT COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION AND SCIENCE debate -
Thursday, 11 Mar 2004

Educational Services: Presentation.

Chairman

On behalf of the committee I welcome representatives of Learning for Young International Students, LYNS, the National Consultative Committee on Racism and Interculturalism and the Department of Education and Science. The meeting has been convened to discuss the provision of educational services in a multiethnic and multicultural society. The committee thought it would be particularly appropriate to consider this issue today, close to UNESCO's International Day Against Racism on 21 March.

The committee notes that an interesting report was produced last year on intercultural guidelines for schools, which was an initiative of the Joint Managerial Body, JMB, and the Association of Community and Comprehensive Schools, ACCS. A copy of the report has been circulated to members.

On behalf of the committee I welcome all the representatives. I draw attention to the fact that members of the committee have absolute privilege, but this does not apply to witnesses appearing before it. Members of the committee are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the House, or an official by name, in such a way as to make him or her identifiable.

Given that we have three presentations, I ask the respective organisations to keep them to a maximum of ten minutes to allow as much time as possible for discussion afterwards. The first presentation is from Ms Dinan and Mr. Ryder of LYNS.

Ms Ann Dinan

LYNS is a support network for voluntary secondary and community comprehensive schools. It was set up by the JMB and the ACCS. The JMB and the ACCS represent the boards of management of voluntary secondary and community comprehensive schools.

It became clear to the JMB and the ACCS that schools needed to adapt themselves to the growing numbers of ethnic minority students coming from abroad. We were already tuned into the concept of inclusion in schools from working with our own ethnic minority students from the Traveller population. However, the need for inclusion in schools escalated inordinately following the arrival of work permit holders from outside the EU, children of asylum seekers and refugees and separated children arriving alone. Some of these students had little or no English and many had scant previous education. Many had been hurt physically, psychologically or emotionally, or all three, and most had cultural or religious backgrounds that were unfamiliar.

The Government policy was, and is, clear: that all children are entitled to full-time education up to the age of 18. Our schools were asking how they were to implement this policy, how to find suitable books and teaching materials and who would train or re-train our subject teachers who are now meeting issues in the classroom that are unfamiliar to them and who may not have worked out their own responses, as yet, to this level of influx from abroad. Who will fund the training of the teachers? Many of the young people need guidance and counselling. How is this to be provided and who will fund it? Where is the information? Where are the resources and what are the key agencies?

LYNS grew out of the need to answer these questions for our schools. The JMB and the ACCS facilitated a group of school principals coming together to work to support schools in finding the answers. The guidelines were produced by that group of principals working together, who gave generously of their time in order to confront the issues. Schools are aware of their key role in combating racism and in developing a more inclusive intercultural society in Ireland. However, LYNS cannot be the sole mechanism through which this happens. Schools must have the support of the Department of Education and Science, through the appointment of a national co-ordinator. For the past three years, JMB, the ACCS and LYNS have pleaded with the Department of Education and Science for a national co-ordinator to take over the supportive role for schools which has been initiated and carried on by LYNS.

It is true that second level schools want to plan for diversity and to ensure excellent learning opportunities and outcomes for all students. We welcome our central role in building an inclusive and intercultural society in Ireland. Schools need a national co-ordinator appointed by the Department of Education and Science to ensure that our policy can become our practice in all schools.

Mr. Liam Ryder

My function is to draw the committee's attention to some very practical issues and problems that are being faced by schools in dealing with this matter in their day to day work.

The first area is assessment and testing. As the members know, whenever any pupil, Irish or otherwise, is enrolled in a school, one needs to put them through a series of assessments and tests to make intelligent decisions about their assignment to classes, subject choices and so on. We have an urgent need for testing and assessment instruments and research is required into their production. The instruments we use at present - many of them exist - are appropriate to a certain extent, but do little to help us identify the types of shortcomings and difficulties of many pupils, especially asylum seekers and refugees.

Language is one of the most important issues any school has to face. As Ms Dinan already pointed out, there are currently some 2,600 individual pupils in second level schools who are considered by the Department to have a significant English language deficit. This becomes a more serious problem if one adds the very many others who have a reasonable knowledge of spoken English, but not necessarily the sort of technical knowledge they need to deal with school.

We quoted an OFSTED report from the UK entitled, Inspecting English as an Additional Language. The report stated that it takes five to seven years to become competent in a second language to the extent that is needed to deal with examinations in the complex language that is required for ordinary school purposes.

The Department of Education and Science supplies 1.5 hours per week of additional language teaching support over a period of two years. The conditions of this are laid out in the presentation so I will not waste time on it. We have often been surprised at how successful these young people are in developing their spoken language with such a small amount of input. However, much more is needed to make the fullest use of the curriculum and for them to be able to face examinations. Teachers and schools need to have access to additional training and resources to help them deal with this aspect.

Particular shortcomings are listed. There is a limit on the provision of language teaching in schools. A school which has 28 children with a significant English language deficit will receive two whole-time teacher positions. My colleague, Mr. Finucane, has 120 such pupils in his school, yet he has exactly the same degree of support as if he had only 28 such pupils. It is difficult to justify this regulation.

The programme also finishes after two years. Many schools that are in the position of being over the quota have complained that they are expected to meet the additional teaching needs from within their own staff resources. These teachers are often not specially trained or do not have an interest in dealing with such work. Their qualifications are often in other areas.

Another factor is that immigrant pupils often arrive in the country at times outside the normal start to the school year. We cannot assume that these pupils begin the school year on 1 September. Schools have to make provision for such pupils half way through the school year, yet the allocation of teachers is based on the pupil-teacher ratio at the beginning of the year.

State examinations are an integral part of our system and are expected to measure the true ability of students. It is our belief that the current leaving certificate and junior certificate examinations are not particularly suited to dealing with this issue. There is an urgent need for the State examinations commission and the NCCA to examine the syllabi, curricula and so on to ensure that they go some way towards measuring the true ability of these pupils if they are to remain part of society in the long term. A simple measure such as access to dictionaries in the course of the leaving certificate is a particular plea. It is a small thing, but it would make a huge difference to these children in approaching examinations.

Access to trained personnel is a major problem even where one has a proper allocation. There is no formal qualification for the purpose of teaching of English as a second language, as distinct from the teaching of English as a foreign language. The only course in existence is in Trinity College, which is called integrate Ireland language and training. The course is successful, but it is extremely limited. There is a need for more diversity in this regard. The course should be made available throughout the country and not just in the Dublin area.

Apart from the teaching of English as a second language, teachers of history, mathematics, science and other subjects are finding they have an increasing number of multilingual pupils in school. Although the teacher is not necessarily an English teacher, he or she needs a degree of inservice and pre-service training to help them cope with the multilingual and multicultural situations with which they are dealing.

The area of psychological and health services has particular significance for those children coming in as refugees or asylum seekers. Many of them have suffered extreme trauma and difficulties. They are separated from their homes and backgrounds and are living in what to them is an alien society. We need psychological services for ordinary Irish pupils who come from a relatively stable background. How much more is it needed in the case of immigrants and asylum seekers? Health issues are also coming up. Schools need to have access to the necessary psychological and health services for advice and guidance in this area. NEPS needs to take this on board and to try to increase its knowledge of this issue to support to schools in that area.

I want to draw particular attention to a relatively small group of what are officially known as separated children. They were formerly called unaccompanied minors. These are young people between the ages of 15 and 18 who come into the country unaccompanied by any responsible adult in charge of them. They are assigned to hostels, mostly in the Dublin area. Although I am not sure of exact statistics, I understand that, at any given time, there could be 500 to 600 of them. A large number of them are enrolled in the senior cycle of second level schools and do reasonably well. The efforts made to accommodate them are a great credit to the schools involved.

I want to draw attention to a decision taken by the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform just before Christmas. The tradition was that where a person like this was in the middle of a course, he or she was left in the accommodation and under the same conditions until the end of the programme even when he or she had reached the age of 18. Just before Christmas, this was changed so that all these children are recognised as adults on reaching the age of 18 and are shifted into direct provision. This has had a huge effect on many of these children, apart altogether from the practical problems with their loss of income and sense of independence.

They had their own social welfare payments and were able to feed and clothe themselves. They had a degree of personal and financial independence but, suddenly, on reaching adulthood all that independence is removed from them and they are put into direct provision with a total income of about €19 per week. There is fear, anxiety and trauma involved. How many parents would decide to uproot their children, move house or take other major decisions in the six-month lead-up to the leaving certificate, which is a very important and significant examination? Although it is really a matter for the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform and the Department of Education and Science together, we strongly recommend that any change in their status or living accommodation should await the completion of the course of studies in which they are engaged or, at the very least, should ensure that it coincides with the end of the school year, taking into account the circumstances of the school organisation in making such changes, if they are considered necessary.

These are some of the issues that are coming across. We believe strongly that the idea Ms Dinan proposed of a national co-ordinator is necessary to assist schools with this matter. If we are serious about providing a sensible and reasonable education process for these people, the matter needs to be taken in hand and the political will must exist to do so.

Chairman

I thank Ms Dinan and Mr. Ryder. We will now hear an introduction from Ms Crickley and a presentation by Mr. Watt on behalf of the National Consultative Committee on Racism and Interculturalism.

Ms Anastasia Crickley

We in the National Consultative Committee on Racism and Interculturalism welcome this opportunity to address the joint committee. We look forward to this occasion as the beginning of further discussions and interaction on this increasingly important issue in policy and practice throughout the education system. I have a dual interest in the issue, in particular as chairperson of the National Consultative Committee on Racism and Interculturalism and also as a lecturer at the Centre for Applied Social Studies, National University of Ireland, Maynooth. I believe that the universities should be taking a leadership role with regard to educational diversity.

Members of the joint committee have already received our written submissions, so we do not intend to repeat everything that is contained therein. We have, therefore, divided our brief presentation into two sections. I will focus on the increasing cultural diversity in Ireland in general and on our education system in particular. Mr. Philip Watt will outline some of the key issues and possible ways forward. We are also accompanied by Ms Anna Visser, our research and policy officer, who has done much work for us in these areas. Mr. Kensika Monshengwo, who is in the public gallery, is our training officer. Much of his work overlaps with the education area.

The theme for today's discussion is particularly important and appropriate given that Sunday, 21 March, is designated as International Day Against Racism. It provides an important focus for diversity and anti-racism initiatives in Ireland and we hope all members of the committee will be able to participate in some of them. This year, we will be focusing in particular on participation by politicians.

The National Consultative Committee on Racism and Interculturalism is an expert body funded by the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform, which seeks to bring together both Government and non-governmental bodies and build partnership approaches to addressing racism and supporting the development of a more inclusive and intercultural Ireland. The committee was formed as one of the initiatives that emerged from the European Year Against Racism in 1997.

There is no doubt that Ireland has become a more culturally diverse society than it was ten years ago. There are now approximately 160 nationalities living here. The 2002 census indicates that non-nationals make up approximately 5.8% of the population and about half of these are non-EU citizens. Ethnic diversity, however, is not new, as I know from my own work with Travellers. The 2002 census indicates that there are 23,681 Travellers, or about 0.65% of the population. As members of the joint committee know, there have also been long-established Jewish and Islamic communities in Ireland.

More recently, there has been an increase in the numbers from Asia, eastern Europe and Africa who come as migrant workers and also as refugees and asylum seekers. A further feature of diversity in Ireland has been the significant increase in Orthodox Christians and Muslims over the past ten years. There has also been a significant increase in diversity at all levels in our education system. Cultural diversity in third level colleges has increased as a consequence of active recruitment policies. As Ireland's and the EU's birth rate continues to fall, this trend is likely to continue. There are many thousands of English-language students in Ireland who, as well as adding to greater diversity, contribute significantly to our economy, particularly in the service industry sector.

At primary and second level, our schools are becoming more diverse and this raises challenges, some of which were made clear in the previous presentation by LYNS. It raises challenges for teaching methodologies, as well as challenges to the way in which curricula are developed, and perhaps newer challenges for the way in which religious diversity is accommodated and respected within schools.

Of particular concern for us is the issue of racism. The NCCRI's voluntary racist incident reporting system has highlighted a number of incidents in our schools and colleges, which, while relatively small, could be indicative of a wider problem. Some schools have coped well with these issues. The incidents reported to the NCCRI indicate that all schools need to develop policies to deal with bullying and other forms of harassment, which are motivated by discrimination and racism. In short, there is a range of challenges that requires both society-wide responses and responses at educational policy and practice levels. My colleague, Mr. Philip Watt, will now identify some of the key priorities which we feel are important.

Mr. Philip Watt

The issues I wish to highlight are drawn from our own direct work in the NCCRI and also our involvement in the Government's year-long consultation process to develop a national action plan against racism. I will highlight a number of issues briefly. The key one is the need to develop an overall intercultural approach in the Department of Education and Science. We would be the first to acknowledge that some important policy initiatives have been developed in recent years, which are consistent with this approach, such as the employment of resource teachers and the beginning of the revision of the primary and second level education system. There have also been commitments in recent policy statements to human rights and equality, which are to be welcomed. The forthcoming action plan against racism provides another opportunity to do some more work on this matter.

A key way of developing a more intercultural approach to education is the school planning process, which has been rolled out by the Department of Education and Science over the past few years. It allows a holistic approach to the way schools and colleges plan to do business. That specific approach makes for the most effective way of planning for diversity by looking at all issues concerning schools, such as enrolment and dealing with bullying in the classroom. Such issues are included in a whole-school approach. The issue of diversity among students could easily be included in that process. As I understand it, some moves towards that are beginning to happen already.

We support the development of an increased focus on cultural and ethnic diversity within the national curricula. The curricula, both at primary and second level, have a role in ensuring that students appreciate the richness of a diversity of cultures. They should also ensure that school students have the skills to challenge prejudice and discrimination where they exist. As I said, some progress has been already made in this area.

There is a need to increase access and participation in education for Travellers. While there has been progress in Traveller participation at primary level, unfortunately participation at second level has been poor. By year four of second level only 6% of Travellers progressing from primary school remain in second level. A further concern is the very low participation of Travellers at third level. Around four or five Travellers per year advance to some form of third level education. We welcome the recent decision by the Government to review Traveller education policy and to draw up a strategic plan which provides an opportunity to examine some of these issues again.

There is also a strong need to enhance the participation of refugees in education provision, as refugees are recognised as long-term residents in Ireland. There are also many migrant workers in Ireland whose children are attending primary, second and third level education institutions. An issue of particular concern in this area is that long-term residents in Ireland, people who have been here many years and who have contributed much through employment, taxation and so on, still have to pay the full fees to attend third level education. That is very unjust. One can understand the economic argument for sustaining fees for recent arrivals in Ireland, as colleges like to maximise their income by accepting students from outside the European Union. However, there is no longer any argument that can be justified to charge full fees to people who have been here for a long period of time.

We support the presentation made by LYNS on separated children and we also feel that women from minority ethnic groups should have access to education in Ireland. In some cultures there are barriers which prevent women from accessing adult and further education. There are also issues with respect to child care access. There is a need for targeted strategies to ensure that those vulnerable groups are included in the overall education strategy. The need to enhance the provision of English as a second language has been rightly highlighted. That is very important for the integration of new communities into Irish society. Many people attend good English language schools, but many others do not. It is interesting to see how quickly children are picking up both English and Irish in schools.

The important role of data is another issue of concern. There is very little segregated data, that is to say, data that focuses on how minority ethnic children access education in Ireland, their experience of education in Ireland, and the outcome of their education. There are administrative data systems in schools that could be used to try to assess the impact of Irish education on those children.

The issue of consultation is very important and in recent years the Department of Education and Science has been quite open to involving bodies like our organisation and NGOs in discussions about cultural diversity in schools. These consultations need to be brought together under an overall strategy, which is what is missing.

Ms Crickley

There is an urgent need for the Government to develop an overall approach to combating racism and to make reasonable accommodation for ethnic diversity at all levels within the education system. The forthcoming national action plan against racism could provide a unique opportunity to develop such an approach. We have only touched briefly on many of the important issues in our submission and we would welcome an opportunity to take a look at pre-school level, the role of youth services and non-formal education for young people, as well as adult and further education. We would also welcome a further opportunity to focus on education at primary, second and third level. Universities and third level institutions have a very clear part to play in providing developmental research and delivering services for an intercultural and anti-racist society. I am very conscious that third level institutions are often teachers of teachers, but I am also aware that targeted initiatives at all levels can gain responses. An holistic approach has the possibility of bringing about a change that acknowledges not just cultural diversity, but also the need for a change in the culture of education.

Chairman

Thank you very much Ms Crickley and Mr. Watt. The committee would now like to hear the submission from the Department of Education and Science.

Mr. Johnny Bracken

I would like to introduce myself and my colleagues. I am the principal officer in the primary branch of the Department of Education and Science. Mr. Matt Ryan is the principal officer in the post-primary branch and Ms Audrey Scott is an inspector with responsibility for this area. I would like to thank the Chairman for giving us this opportunity to discuss this important area with the committee. My colleagues and I will be very interested to hear the views of the committee members on this matter.

Traditionally Ireland has been a country of outward migration and it is only in the last decade that inward migration has exceeded the level of outward migration. Skill and labour shortages have emerged in the Irish economy which are being filled by returning emigrants, mobility within the European Union and a large growth in the numbers with work permits from non-EU countries. It is clear that Ireland is now a multicultural state.

In the last census of population, taken in 2002, non-Irish nationals number 226,200 or 5.8% of the total population. The principal geographical areas of origin are listed as the UK, European countries outside the EU, Asia, Africa, USA, Germany and France. Immigrant children residing in Ireland are entitled to primary and post-primary education regardless of their legal status. Attendance at school is compulsory for all children aged from six to 16 years under the Education (Welfare) Act 2000. Schools are obliged to enrol any child in respect of whom an application for admission has been made, except where a refusal is in accordance with their admissions policy, published by the school under section 15(2)(d) of the Education Act 1998. Such an admissions policy cannot discriminate on grounds of nationality or legal status.

The Department has put in place a system of language support for non-English speaking children, normally immigrants or Irish-born children of immigrants, enrolled in mainstream schools. This support takes the form of financial assistance, additional temporary teaching posts or portions of teaching posts. Full details on the support available to schools are contained in the Department of Education and Science information booklet for schools on asylum seekers, a copy of which has been made available. The level of support provided to any school is determined by the numbers of non-English speaking pupils or students on roll. School management can decide on the structure of the support to be provided in their own schools, but it must focus on the language needs of the non-English speaking children, allowing them full access to the mainstream curriculum in as short a time as possible. There is flexibility for schools in deciding the way in which to structure language support. The majority of schools operate a "withdrawal" system whereby small groups of non-English speaking children are withdrawn from mainstream class during the normal school day for a number of hours per week. The most common mainstream class subjects from which such children are withdrawn are Irish and religious education.

Integrate Ireland Language and Training Limited, IILT, was established in 1998 as the refugee language support unit under the aegis of the centre for language and communication studies at the University of Dublin, Trinity College. It provides training seminars for language support teachers, part-time or full-time, along with classroom materials, including the European language portfolio, to assist them in meeting the English language needs of their pupils. The classroom materials have been developed by IILT, in partnership with practising classroom teachers.

Language support teachers may be permanent members of the school staff who apply to act in this position on a temporary basis, or they may be specifically employed to carry out the required language support work. In all cases, however, language support teachers are members of school staff. IILT advises close liaison between language support teachers and mainstream class teachers so as to ensure that work done in language class reinforces that being done in the mainstream classroom.

Comprehensive English language tuition is available to adult immigrants with refugee status through IILT. Language and literacy provision for adult asylum seekers or immigrant workers is available through the adult education programmes run by the vocational education committees throughout Ireland.

All children, including immigrant children, enrolled in school are counted for the purposes of capitation grants to the school. In addition, under the school books grant scheme, grants are allocated to primary and post-primary schools by the Department to fund schoolbooks for children whose parents or guardians are unable to do so. Asylum seekers, immigrant families and Irish nationals may avail of this grant.

Free school transport is provided to eligible children based on distance from school, regardless of nationality or status. Asylum seekers living in direct provision accommodation centres are provided with free transport to all schools in which they are enrolled under the same criteria as apply to all other children. Exemption from State examinations fees is available to holders of medical cards, regardless of nationality or status.

There is an increased understanding within schools of the various religious occasions of importance to students from minority religious groups. It is not uncommon for schools to acknowledge religious seasons such as Ramadan or the Chinese new year. Students' dress code is a matter for individual school managements and, generally, where a religious or cultural requirement is out of keeping with the school uniform, a compromise is agreed between the family and the school - for example, wearing a required garment under or along with the uniform garments.

In 2003, a service entitled the separated children education service was established by City of Dublin VEC and County Dublin VEC to deal specifically with the educational needs of unaccompanied minors and separated children residing in the greater Dublin area. Two education co-ordinators, funded through the Department, provide an educational assessment service, advise on appropriate placement, monitor and support enrolment, attendance and participation at school and devise and organise after-school and summer programmes.

Intercultural education is one of the key responses to the changing shape of Irish society and to the existence of racism and discriminatory attitudes in Ireland. It has evolved from existing educational policy and is in keeping with other equality legislation and initiatives, such as the Employment Equality Act 1998 and the Equal Status Act 2000.

Much of Ireland's policy framework for education has sought to promote equality and interculturalism through education. The 1995 White Paper on Education, Charting Our Education Future, highlights that equality and pluralism are two of the key considerations which underpin educational policy. The Education Act 1998 sets out to make provision in the interests of the common good for the education of every person in the state to ensure that the education system respects the diversity of values, beliefs, languages and traditions in Irish society. Guidelines on Traveller education in primary and post-primary schools, issued by the Department of Education and Science in 2002, also emphasise the importance of interculturalism within the school, emphasising the two elements of intercultural education, namely, appreciation of diversity and challenging inequality.

These principles are also endorsed in the primary school curriculum which was revised in 1999. The curriculum recognises the diversity of beliefs, values and aspirations of all religious and cultural groupings in Irish society and acknowledges that it has a, "responsibility in promoting tolerance and respect for diversity in both school and the community". The curriculum's vision for primary education identifies that the curriculum: celebrates the uniqueness of the child and seeks to nurture the child in all the elements of her or his life - spiritual, moral, cognitive, emotional, imaginative, aesthetic, social and physical; recognises that children live in and are part of society and that their personal development is deeply affected by their relationships in the home and with other people; and recognises that education not only reflects society but is an influence in shaping its development. The curriculum equips people to share in the benefits of society and enables them to contribute effectively to society and to deal with and adjust to the changing nature of knowledge and of society.

The aims of primary education outlined in the primary school curriculum provide an important foundation on which to build an intercultural approach. These aims include: to enable children to come to an understanding of the world through the acquisition of knowledge, concepts, skills and attitudes and the ability to think critically; to enable children to develop spiritual, moral and religious values; to enable children to develop a respect for cultural difference, an appreciation of civic responsibility and an understanding of the social dimensions of life, past and present; to enable children to develop skills and understanding in order to study their world and its inhabitants and appreciate the interrelationships between them; and to enable children to develop personally and socially and to relate to others with understanding and respect.

Each junior certificate syllabus is presented for implementation within a general junior certificate curriculum context based on the aims and principles of the junior certificate programme. These aims include: to contribute to the moral and spiritual development of the young person and to develop a tolerance and respect for the values and beliefs of others; and to prepare the young person for the responsibilities of citizenship in the national context and in the context of the wider European and global communities.

While all subject areas contain opportunities for engaging in intercultural education, these

opportunities are not explicitly stated in many of the subject syllabuses. However, examples of subjects in the junior cycle programme where principles of intercultural education are more explicitly presented include: art, craft and design; social, personal and health education, SPHE; civic, social and personal education, CSPE; and religious education.

The National Council for Curriculum and Assessment is producing guidelines on intercultural education and the curriculum for schools and teachers, to be completed within the next few months. There will be two publications: Intercultural Education and the Primary School Curriculum, and Intercultural Education in the Post-Primary School. These guidelines will be provided to every teacher and will include specific instructions on school and classroom planning for intercultural education, choosing classroom resources, thematic planning for intercultural education, identifying intercultural education opportunities across the curriculum, approaches and methodologies, assessment and language. They aim to mainstream intercultural education across all aspects of the curriculum with the main approach being on identifying opportunities for intercultural education within the curriculum and demonstrating how teachers can further develop these opportunities in the school and classroom.

That concludes our presentation. Relevant statistical information is given in the appendix to the material provided to the committee. I hope my colleagues will be able to deal with any issues which members of the committee may wish to discuss.

Chairman

I thank Mr. Bracken and all the speakers. Members will now ask questions.

Deputy Enright

I welcome the opportunity to consider this matter with the delegation. I was concerned that Mr. Bracken did not deal with how the Department would go forward but he did so towards the end of his contribution when he referred to the two publications concerning the primary and post-primary curricula.

The information booklet for schools and asylum seekers is functional and factual but deals only with particular information on the rights of the schools in terms of what they have access to by way of supports, teachers and so on. However, it does not address how schools should deal with the general issue of asylum seekers attending schools and associated cultural issues. It deals with general practical and financial points as distinct from the greater issue and I hope the other two publications will deal more with the greater issue, which must be addressed.

Other speakers referred to the facilities available, in particular for languages and in regard to the curricula for junior and leaving certificate, and the assistance which should be given to students. From the perspective of the Department, are changes planned in this area, such as were outlined or sought by previous speakers? What progress will be made in terms of basic teaching materials, such as dictionaries for exams, which were mentioned? Is there any intention to establish a national co-ordination unit? Does the Department have a dedicated unit to deal specifically with interculturalism or are those working in that area also working in other areas of the Department?

Mr. Watt or Ms Crickley raised the issue of youth services. There seems to be a reliance on the national youth work development plan, which concerns me considering the lack of funding provided for it. What the Department is trying to do will become aspirational if the plan does not progress, and the delegation might comment on that. In regard to the NCCRI presentation, the Department stated that all schools should develop policies to deal with bullying and other forms of harassment motivated by racism. It is aspirational given that not all schools have a policy to deal with bullying and such a policy is not mandatory. It is left up to a school whether to have a policy on bullying. Bullying in general was discussed over a year ago at this committee. Is it the Department's intention to make it mandatory on all schools to have a bullying policy? That should be the case. There are two good pilot projects, one through Trinity and one in County Donegal, which have been successful but there has not been a roll out of these around the country. We should insist that such a policy is mandatory. Perhaps the delegation would comment on whether schools of many different cultures are more likely to have policies in place or are they quicker to develop them because they see a need or a necessity to do so?

Deputy O’Sullivan

I apologise for being late but I was attending the Order of Business in the Dáil. I felt we should discuss this issue in the lead up to International Day against Racism which will have passed before our next meeting.

Schools have great potential to address issues of possible racism and interculturalism and the importance of Ireland being a sharing and caring nation in terms of all the different ethnic origins because every child goes through a school at some stage in his or her life. We cannot expect the schools to do it on their own if they do not have the supports they need. For that reason it is important to address this issue in the context of education.

I wish to refer to the general position of schools having the supports they need to ensure they do their best to support those from ethnic minorities and the capacity to extend that support out into the broader community. I note the LYNS document states the intercultural school has significant and educational benefits. It goes on to point out that it is an environment that respects the rich ethnic diversity characterising our changing society and that as a microcosm of the larger world, the intercultural school is a significant model of what it is to be inclusive by living out the values of its ethos statement.

We should do whatever we can to facilitate schools to spread that message out into the broader community. I say that in the context of having attended a meeting a few days ago on access to schools and having heard parents speak about the money being spent in certain areas and not in other areas. Do schools have the opportunity to involve parents and do they convey to them the ethos of diversity that they are trying to engender in their schools?

My other questions are more specific. There is the question of the difficulty of English not being a first language and being in schools where English or Irish are treated as the first language. The point is well made that English, as a second language, is different from English as a foreign language. I admit I had not thought that through. There is a need for more support. I was contacted by the stepfather of two Russian children who are in the school system, one of whom is sitting the junior certificate this year. As a result I tabled a parliamentary question on the dictionary issue to which I got a reply this week. The reply stated that the issue raised by the Deputy was being considered by the State Examinations Commission, an independent body, and that the Minister would reply to me when he got the decision of the commission. I understand the matter is under consideration but as a committee, we should make a recommendation that students be facilitated with a straightforward dictionary of their native language into English and vice versa. It must be extraordinarily difficult to study a subject such as geography and answer in English, having had difficulty in understanding a few technical words in the question. It is a practical support that should be available for students and this committee should recommend it.

The question of unaccompanied minors is one to which there has to be a practical solution. That an 18 year old, who should be preparing for the leaving certificate, is suddenly thrust in a totally different environment is an issue that should be addressed. I suspect the number involved is not great but, perhaps, the delegation can verify that. This is an issue on which we should be able to make a recommendation. Students in that age group should not be so disrupted.

Perhaps Mr. Watt or Ms Crickley would say if the admission policy of second level schools is an issue for Travellers. Is there a difficulty for Travellers in transferring from primary to second level? The LYNS group raised the issue of students coming in during the school year and the need to facilitate them. I came across that situation during a visit to a school this week. A class of 33, which is way beyond the guidelines, would have 34 students the following day because a new student, a non-national, was joining it. The school was quite happy to facilitate him but obviously there were difficulties in terms of the numbers. There are not enough supports from the Department in terms of students who come in during the year. Given that the provision for language of 1.5 hours per week for two years is totally inadequate, does the Department intend to increase the provision?

On the issue of third level fees, I have come across specific individual cases where students have gone through the second level system to the stage of filling in the CAO form and being told they had to pay full fees. In one case, a young girl who qualified for third level ended up doing a PLC course - there is nothing wrong with PLC courses - because she could not afford the third level fees, even though she and her family lived in Ireland for a number of years and had gone though the Irish school system.

I pose my final question to the Department of Education and Science. We are in a position where, for historical reasons, the primary school system is largely denominational. When the Educate Together group came here, it raised the issue of how it is providing for the constitutional rights of parents all over the country but is having difficulty in going out into a greenfield area where there are many new houses, particularly in the Dublin area, and establishing a school because of the various restrictions. Given that the original national school concept in the last century was multidenominational rather than denominational, has the Department any intention of intervening to provide for intercultural and interdenominational education at primary level, because the ethos of 90% plus of our schools is denominational?

Deputy Andrews

I welcome the delegations and particularly Mr. Finucane who is a colleague of mine and who, uncharacteristically, had nothing to say during the course of the presentation. I am sure he will have some contribution to make. Mr. Ryder touched on the enrolment policy. I understand it is the exclusive function of a primary school to choose its own enrolment policy. Typically, a national school will enrol children who live locally, taking into account the attendance of siblings at the school and so on. My experience, however, is that a Catholic national school cannot favour Catholics over Muslims or anyone else. Given that the State, as such, pays for national schools, it could be argued that it allows this discriminatory practice.

I do not know whether the Department has any function or control over enrolment policy. Can it push for this situation to be changed? Being a sibling is not grounds for discrimination in the equality legislation but being a member of a religious group is. This is therefore a discriminatory practice. These schools are funded by the State and, while it may be all right under the law for them to engage in this practice, it is probably unconstitutional. I am not sure whether exceptions are made in this area, although they are in other areas. I invite the views of the representatives on this matter. Is the Department aware of the many challenges in this area? Under section 29 of the Education Act, one can appeal to the director general on issues such as enrolment.

Mr. Ryder raised the issue of unaccompanied minors. I have received much correspondence from schools along the same lines, but I have not really got to the bottom of the matter. It seems the Department of Social and Family Affairs is possibly the guide Department in this area because of the reduction in payments when a person turns 18. I know the payment is supplied through the health boards, but there is also the question of rent allowance. I would like clarification on this issue so that we can address it. It is clearly an anomaly. I do not think it was the intention of the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform or anybody else that people still in a post-primary course should be discommoded to the extent that has been described. We need to ensure people do not go into direct provision until they finish their schooling.

I invite the views of the representatives on the wearing of headscarves, which has been a major issue in France over the past month or so. I do not know whether it has arisen in this country. Nobody has raised it with me. It is related to the issue of clothing and uniforms. Has this been an issue in this country? Do the representatives have any views on this matter?

Are resource teachers being used for integration in terms of classroom assistance? What has been the experience in this area? Are there any guidelines? Would the representatives recommend that we encourage this?

The list of schools on the website of the Department of Education and Science does not give an indication of the ethos of each school. If a student comes into the country, perhaps the son or daughter of a person with a work permit, the person cannot tell from the vast list the nature of any school - whether it is Church of Ireland, Catholic or anything else. He or she may be obliged to spend a long time telephoning various schools and may not be able to find an appropriate one.

My final question concerns language experience. It is said that it takes five to seven years for somebody to learn a language, but that surely depends on the person's age. The younger the person, the quicker he or she will learn to be functional in a language. I met a student yesterday who came to Ireland from China three years ago and is now studying medicine in UCD. He is 16. I presume younger children learn much more quickly. I question the figures that are taken as orthodox.

Chairman

Deputy Andrews referred to school enrolment. There is a substantial number of asylum seekers in County Clare, partly because of Shannon Airport. Historically, there have been large numbers of people from the former Soviet Union, Cuba and so on in this area, and there are many from African countries and eastern Europe. Many of them come to my clinic to discuss various issues, but I can only recollect one query about education provision, which came not from an asylum seeker but from a non-national working here. I know from my former teaching colleagues, however, that they sometimes come under pressure from parents if there are large numbers of non-nationals in their schools.

There seems to be an informal policy of discouraging enrolment by non-nationals in some schools. There seems to be parental pressure in number of cases - it is a small number but significant enough to be noticed - to reduce the number of asylum seekers in a school. Parents have also been known to threaten to or actually move their children to schools with fewer Travellers and asylum seekers. This is almost impossible to prove but is an area in which action, if taken, could be effective. I point out, however, that I have dealt with a wide range of issues on behalf of non-nationals and asylum seekers and education simply has not featured to any great extent. It is a credit to schools and teachers that they have done such excellent work, sometimes with relatively poor provision from the Department, but also with its help.

Deputy Andrews

Mr. Finucane is not very keen on public speaking.

Mr. Michael Finucane

I do not think Deputy Andrews knows me well. I am always very quiet, especially in certain situations in which I recognise who I am talking to. I know my place. I thank Deputy Andrews for the words of welcome.

We all agree that there are many issues, concerns and challenges to be dealt with. We think education provides the opportunity to prepare people to contribute to society, whether in Ireland or in another country if somebody is eventually repatriated. Education must be seen as an investment in the future. In fact, it is part of an essential infrastructure in Ireland. It is a learning process. Many of the issues raised are new to us and we are only now learning about how to deal with them within the schools. The issue of non-national students in schools has only come to the forefront in the last four or five years. Many people have referred to resources in the meantime.

There is a need for a proper, co-ordinated planning process. Many of the issues raised in today's meeting could be identified and addressed through the national co-ordination unit. There would be someone there who could deal with the issues as they arose. We must be careful because any restrictions or cutbacks imposed out of short-term considerations, such as a lack of resources due to the absence of the Celtic tiger, could put progress at risk and have medium to long-term effects which will have to be addressed in future.

Schools can provide the ideal facilities to deal with many of the issues raised. They may deal with issues now which will have long-term effects. They have already responded to many of the challenges that have been pointed out by the Chairman and the members - we thank them for their remarks - in providing for a multi-ethnic, multicultural society. We have tried to be proactive and do what is necessary, especially through LYNS. Credit is due to Ms Dinan and Mr. Ryder, along with the JMB and the ACCS, for what they have done in this regard. They have brought us together to share experiences and deal with many of the issues that arise.

However, issues continue to arise on a daily basis. Yesterday somebody came to our school seeking admission. He had no English whatsoever. He was from Eastern Europe and his education has been seriously disrupted for various reasons. He could not even identify the alphabet. We must start afresh at this time of the year with this person. The reason we have so many people such as this in the school is that we have programmes in place to cater for them. This is fortunate. That is not the case in all schools. Schools would need immediate assistance to cater for such individuals.

Schools must be properly funded and resourced if they are to deal effectively with changing circumstances. Resources based on numbers, such as the provision of one teacher for 14 students and two for 28 and so on, is dangerous and regressive. While everyone is treated equally, unfortunately, some are more equal than others. It is the most disadvantaged and vulnerable who will benefit least from such policies which fail to take account of other factors my colleagues mentioned earlier which are not immediately identifiable but have a serious impact on many students, such as, social and economic factors, disadvantaged background, emotional and behavioural difficulties, learning difficulties and so on.

Dealing with current international student issues may be viewed as a special case. We ask members to consider it in that regard because of the issues impacting on schools and the challenge which they pose to us. We need to respond quickly in this area. Mention was made earlier of the involvement of parents in education. It is essential that is part of the process. Not all schools have experienced the same challenges. However, in some areas, there is a concentration of international issues. For example, one would imagine that the problem of unaccompanied minors would be particular to the Dublin area. Many of the issues raised need to be addressed.

The question was asked if schools have the opportunity to address parents. They do through the National Parents' Council and through the highlighting of various activities such as international days. Many schools have set up weekly international events to which everyone in the community is invited to participate. As regards the dictionary issue, we have identified that all students need to be treated the same, be they Irish or not. We were told by the examinations commission that we should not discriminate or differentiate between students. We believe dictionaries should be available to everybody.

If one breaks down the 1.5 hours of language support given to students, that amounts to two 45 minute class periods per week. Mr. Bracken said such children could be withdrawn from Irish classes. Five or six class periods per week are given over to Irish. The key for many of these students is learning English, especially those with a deficiency in that area. It is essential they are immersed as quickly as possible. Their proficiency in language enables them to participate in society and problems in that area would impact on them socially and academically. That issue needs to be addressed, in particular, in schools with more than 28 students per class. I cannot understand why the cut-off point in that regard is being adhered to by the Department. There is an obvious need in this area. We continue to take on students throughout the year and to address their needs. Many speakers referred to the ethos of our schools. It is the policy of many of our schools not to refuse enrolment to any student however they present themselves.

Mention was also made of third level fees. We are continually drawn into this area because we provide career guidance and counselling for all students. It was agreed some time ago that a student applying for third level education could only access it when he or she had gained status under the three year residency rule. However, the position in that regard has been reversed. At one stage it was decided that students should only be considered from the date they obtained their status and not from the day on which they applied for status. These issues need to be addressed because schools are having to spend a great deal of time dealing with them.

Deputy Andrews asked about enrolment issues in primary schools. We are involved at post-primary level but such issues have significant affects on us all. What happens in primary school has a knock-on effect for post-primary schools. We ask that there be more care in the system in regard to separated children and their automatic move to direct provision on reaching 18 years of age. The amount of notice we receive is insufficient to allow for an easy transition to new circumstances. We also ask that they are not changed until such time as they have completed second level education because the affect of that change is traumatic for them. Often outstanding students are enormously affected by the changes involved.

The appointment of the national co-ordinator will help to address these issues quickly. The proposed language support teacher will be of enormous benefit but we need more staff. We are being asked to provide an intercultural cross-curricular programme. That will require that all teachers get involved in a specialised service. We all need help in that regard. I acknowledge and support everything said about the commitment of teachers to provide a service in difficult circumstances. Deputy Andrews mentioned the age difference issue. Age is but one factor. There is a diversity of abilities among the students who come to us, some of whom may be 18 years old but unable to speak English. One cannot simply place them in first year education given the age difference. It is essential the language support service is improved, although that service has improved significantly through support from the Department for the ILC course. We must ensure our examinations are user-friendly. We must also address issues such as direct provision and so on.

Schools are at the coalface in this regard and they have already done a great deal. We have welcomed everyone to our school and have tried to help them as much as possible, but it is a tremendous challenge. We are trying to be proactive but we need more support.

Ms Crickley

I welcome and agree with Deputy Enright's remarks as regards the youth work development plan. As we mentioned at the outset, we would welcome further discussion with the committee regarding non-formal education, not just in terms of youth work and the plan but as regards adult and continuing education and the specific requirements which Ireland may put in place for training and education under EU employment guidelines for non-nationals seeking work here.

On our enrolment policy, the Chairman mentioned that it was implementation of our policy and not the policy which caused a particular problem. I am conscious that a number of schools proactively try to inform their enrolment policies with cultural diversity. While it is not policy that is at fault, we must create conditions where its implementation can be monitored and can become part of creating excellence within the school system.

Deputy O'Sullivan asked about our enrolment policy for Travellers at second level. Transition to second level is difficult for all children and can be more difficult for children from minority backgrounds whose status in Ireland is not totally secure. The issue is not whether Travellers transfer to second level; the issue is what happens when they transfer to second level and how the system can be resourced and organised in such a way as to meet Travellers' needs. I will ask my colleagues to answer the other questions that were raised.

I am struck by the fact that the issues we have been discussing with regard to intercultural education require not just an add-on about such education. In the first instance, intercultural education within the system must involve addressing racism. It is not merely concerned with learning about intercultural issues, it involves a systematic approach to changing our education processes. The latter will require pre-service input and, as our colleagues from LYNS stated, in-service input and support for the people who are already part of the system. A systematic approach to addressing racism in an ongoing way is also required. We hope the latter would include policies which, as far as possible, might be mandatory. As Deputy Enright pointed out, policies on bullying are not mandatory at present and we would welcome a move in that direction.

Mr. Watt

All the Members who spoke referred to enrolment. One of the issues there is that it is a positive thing. In our experience, many children attend schools where they will receive the best reception and where there is a history of inclusiveness. There is one brilliant example, namely, the Holy Rosary school in Firhouse, at which there is a fantastic head teacher and 20% or 30% of the school population is made up of non-nationals. That is largely as a result of a very positive response on the part of the teachers to promoting inclusiveness. There is an issue of choice but the major challenge for the Department of Education and Science is how to translate the good practice at Holy Rosary to other schools. LYNS made a good point about the need for central co-ordination in the Department which would take an overall look at all levels of education to ensure that an intercultural strand is included from pre-school up to third level. Regardless of whether the latter could be achieved through an equality or intercultural body set up within the Department of Education and Science, it is really important in terms of driving the agenda forward.

Deputy Andrews referred to head-dresses. We all looked askance at France and began to wonder what was going on. That country has a separate history of secular education. However, we hope that it is unlikely that such policies would be introduced in Ireland. We have a long history of religious diversity which I, more than others, perhaps appreciate more than others. Members may have guessed that from my accent. I am originally from Belfast. That tolerance and sense of diversity should be allowed to continue. There is a need for compromises in regard to head-dresses. However, long may our tolerance and sense of diversity continue.

Ms Anna Vasser

With regard to a number of issues that were raised and by way of information, it would be worth noting that the recently published Equality Bill, which takes on board a number of European Council directives, including the race directive about which we are most immediately concerned, does a number of things in respect of education. The first of these is that it leaves in place section 37(1) of the Employment Equality Act, which allows religious, educational and medical institutions to discriminate in order to maintain their religious ethos. This relates to the point made earlier by Deputy Andrews.

Another matter is third level fees, the other side of which is the grants issue. The Bill allows the Minister for Education and Science to discriminate where he or she requires grants to be restricted to nationals of member states of the European Union. The fees debate needs to be balanced with reference to accessing grants. There was an equality tribunal judgment on this matter recently but the Bill addresses it in any event.

Mr. Bracken

I will deal with some of the issues that were raised and my colleagues will cover others. One matter to which many speakers referred was the allocation of teacher resources. It is worth pointing out that, at present the equivalent of 303 teaching posts have been allocated at primary level. At post-primary level the figure is of the order of 178 posts.

There was an issue with regard to 1.5 hours per week. My colleague Ms Scott may deal with this matter further if required. The suggestion was that 1.5 hours per week is not sufficient. I understand the idea was that pupils should be withdrawn in groups rather than individually. If people are taken out for 1.5 hours on an individual basis the same benefit might not be achieved whereas if they can be brought out as a group, 1.5 hours can make a difference.

The matter of dictionaries has already been dealt with but it is more relevant to the state examinations commission in any event. Ms Scott will deal with the issues relating to the curriculum.

Deputy Enright inquired if there is a separate unit in the Department. There is no such unit. Ms Scott is the inspector in that area but we do not have a specific unit in the Department which deals with this issue. Mr. Ryan deals with the post-primary area, while I deal with the primary area. There are a number of sections involved, but there is no one specific section which deals exclusively with this issue.

Educate Together schools were mentioned. I agree that the question in this regard should be aimed at the political head of the Department because it is a policy issue. If the Deputy concerned does not object, I will not attempt to answer the question.

Deputy O’Sullivan

I understand Mr. Bracken's position.

Mr. Bracken

Deputy Andrews referred to section 29 appeals. At present, such appeals, whether they relate to primary or post-primary, are dealt with in Mr. Ryan's area. Perhaps Mr. Ryan will deal with that matter for the Deputy.

I will raise with the relevant section in the Department whether it would be possible to indicate the type of school involved in the list on the website. There may be issues of data protection involved and we would have to try to discover the exact position. I appreciate what the Deputy said and we will bring the matter to the notice of the relevant section to see if something can be done.

The Chairman referred to informal policies in schools in respect of non-enrolment. We are not aware of such policies. The Department would be interested in knowing if there exists specific evidence of such behaviour. Mr. Ryan will indicate whether any specific section 29 appeals have been made in that regard. If there was evidence that schools have informal non-enrolment policies, we would like it to be presented to us. The Department would be disappointed if the existence of such policies could be proven.

Ms Scott will now deal with the curriculum issues.

Ms Audrey Scott

A question was asked about the practicalities of how schools cope with students. It was stated that the answer to this question lies, perhaps, in the guidelines being developed, which is true. It was hoped these guidelines would have been completed and in force in schools prior to now but, as everyone knows, these things sometimes take longer than anticipated. The guidelines take a whole school approach in respect of interculturalism. It is not something that is dealt with by particular teachers in certain classrooms. It is dealt with by the entire school community, including parents, ancillary staff, teaching staff and students. The guidelines provide practical advice to schools in respect of these issues. They also refer to sections of the curriculum where teachers can highlight anti-racist or interculturalist approaches. Many people will be happy when the guidelines emerge. I hope they will be published sooner rather than later. In the meantime, assistance to schools comes from the reception and integration agency, the interdepartmental agency under the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform. An Education person has been instrumental in providing guidance for schools, particularly with regard to asylum seekers and refugees, which is the brief of the reception and integration agency. There has been guidance for schools on non-national issues.

Integrate Ireland Language and Training, which provides in-service training for language support teachers and school principals looks at resource materials for classes and language support and gives guidance to language support teachers and school principals on issues of an intercultural nature in their schools.

As an inspector with responsibility in this area, part of my job is to visit schools to see how they are getting on and what sort of issues are arising. While there is a limited amount that one person can do, I try to advise and to get examples of best practice and disseminate them. However, it is a limited exercise.

Mr. Matt Ryan

Deputy Andrews raised the issue of section 29 appeals. There are three grounds on which an appeal can be brought under section 29. Refusal to enrol is the main ground to date, on which appeals have been lodged. The refusal to enrol non-nationals has not surfaced to any great extent so it does not appear to be an issue. Clearly, if a non-national applies for enrolment to a primary or post-primary school and is refused, he or she has a right to appeal under section 29. The case will be heard by an appeals committee.

Deputy Andrews

Have there been appeals on religious grounds?

Mr. Ryan

No. There has not been any appeal quoting religious grounds as the reason for refusal to enrol.

A representative of Learning for Young International Students raised the issue of the appointment of a national co-ordinator. An application was made by LYNS to the Department for the appointment of a national co-ordinator, two assistant co-ordinators and some administrative back-up. The Department has a limited budget with which to respond to a request such as this. The question is being looked at and I hope we will be able to make progress on it in the near future. With the Department, I acknowledge the very valuable work of LYNS.

The joint committee will have seen from the Department's presentation that two co-ordinators were appointed to the City of Dublin and County Dublin Vocational Education Committees, specifically to try to assist in the area of separated children. Some of the issues concerning what happens these children when they reach 18 years of age cannot be decided by the Department. We are willing to hear what the joint committee has to say about those issues.

The question of head-dress has not been raised with us. Schools take a very sensible attitude to issues such as this. It is not an issue for parents or students.

Chairman

The joint committee must decide how to proceed on six or seven issues. I suggest that we ask the clerk to prepare a report on the main issues raised. At the next meeting we can consider how to proceed. Those which come to my mind are the limit of two units whether there are 28 or more children, the dictionary issue which is the state examinations commission enrolment issue. Maybe I will take the charitable view of Mr. Watt that it is because one school in the particular area is so much more forward thinking, that a huge proportion of the students go there, or perhaps it is not. Other issues which come to mind are the co-ordinator issue, the youth services and adult and non-formal education issue and the separated children transfer issue, which relates more to the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform but we can decide how we will proceed on it.

Deputy Enright

The issue of teacher training has not been raised. Training courses are available for people who wish to go abroad and teach English as a foreign language. Nevertheless, teachers within our system are coping with teaching English as a foreign language without training. How can we deal with this problem? It might also be included in the report as an issue to be dealt with.

Chairman

That matter could be included in the report and brought to the Minister's attention. He will be with us very shortly for the Estimates debate. These issues could be pursued with the examinations commissions and the various other bodies. The issue of the transfer of separated children could be pursued with the Joint Committee on Justice, Equality, Defence and Women's Rights.

Deputy O’Sullivan

Have you included the dictionary issue, Chairman?

Chairman

I have. When we see the report at the next meeting we can decide how to proceed on each of the issues.

Ms Dinan

A pilot project is being conducted by the joint managerial body and the Association of Secondary Teachers in Ireland, in which teachers have volunteered to pursue an in-service course in their own time on Wednesday afternoons. The lecturer is Ms Mary Gannon from Trinity College. She hopes to make this course an inter-cultural education module of the Trinity College Master in Education course. Teachers respond when they are encouraged in this way.

The admissions policy of JMB schools is totally in line with the Equal Status Act, the Education Act and the Education (Welfare) Act. I represent the JMB on the CROSSCARE education committee. We are very alert to any problems which arise regarding Traveller children. Our schools have open admission policies.

Chairman

I thank the witnesses for their presentations and for answering questions. Please feel free to contact us if there are items which you would like the committee to pursue.

The joint committee adjourned at 1.20 p.m. until 11.30 a.m. on Thursday, 25 March.