JOINT COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION AND SCIENCE debate -
Thursday, 24 Feb 2005

Play in Schools: Presentations.

Chairman

On behalf of the Joint Committee on Education and Science, I welcome Ms Marie Kennedy, principal officer, National Children's Office and from the Department of Education and Science, Ms Doreen McMorris, assistant chief inspector, Mr. Pádraig MacFhlannchadha, a primary inspector, and Ms Teresa Griffin, principal officer, school building unit.

Before we begin our discussions, I draw attention to the fact that members of this committee have absolute privilege but the same privilege does not apply to witnesses appearing before the committee. Members are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that members should not comment on, criticise or make charges against any person outside the House or an official by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable.

I now invite Ms Kennedy to make a presentation on behalf of the National Children's Office.

Ms Marie Kennedy

I hope members have a copy of my presentation. It is important to set the context for play policy. I know members are particularly interested in play in schools but the purpose of my presentation is to give the committee some idea of how we came to develop a play policy in the first place. I will give some idea of the content of the policy, how we are getting on with its implementation and then move on to the development of a recreational policy for older children.

I am from the National Children's Office which is part of the Department of Health and Children. There are approximately 16 in the office and we share staff with the Departments of Education and Science; Justice, Equality and Law Reform and Health and Children. The office was set up to provide a cross-cutting focus on policies for children. Our work programme covers the implementation of the national children's strategy of the year 2000 and work on specific projects identified for us by the Cabinet sub-committee on children. Play was one of the projects identified by the sub-committee and it was assigned to us because it is not a topic that falls naturally into any one Department.

The impetus for the development of a play policy came from children themselves. Quite an extensive consultation preceded the development of the strategy in the year 2000. Approximately 2,500 children sent in their views to the then Minister of State with responsibility for children, Deputy Mary Hanafin. The children were asked basic questions such as what was good or bad about living in Ireland and what they thought Ireland would be like in the future. Their responses gave a stark view and play and recreation featured highly on their agenda. This was a surprise to us both as civil servants and adults. Play and recreation are a burning or major quality of life issue for children.

The issue was picked up in the national children's strategy which gave commitments to develop play and recreation policies in the programme for Government to the year 2002, which is where we came on board and drafted a policy in consultation with the relevant Departments. The play policy concentrates on publicly funded play and concerns what the Departments and local authorities in particular can do. We deal with children up to and including primary school age for the period up to 2008. The policy was launched by the Minister of State at the Department of Health and Children, Deputy Brian Lenihan, in March last year.

The vision of the play policy, which fits in very well with the vision of the national children's strategy, is an Ireland where the importance of play is recognised in order that children experience a range of quality play opportunities to enrich their childhood. Developing awareness of the importance of play is a critical part of this policy. As we prove in the policy, awareness of the importance of play is currently quite low. We want children to have a choice and to experience many ways to play. The evidence outlined in our policy shows that if we do not provide this choice, their opportunities will shrink over time.

We had to define "play" in order to know and agree on what it meant. We were also keen on distinguishing between play and sport because sport already gets quite a lot of attention. Play is intrinsically different. The definition in the policy, which I think does not sound playful, is that play is freely chosen, personally directed, intrinsically motivated behaviour that actively engages the child. A translation of this which we like is that play is what children do when nobody is telling them what to do. Play is not a means to an end; it is the means that are important. The defining characteristics of play are that the child chooses it, it is not organised or supervised by an adult, there are no rules and children do it when they want.

Our definition excludes sport. We feel strongly that play demands and deserves attention in its own right. Our report is evidence based. There is much evidence to show that play is good for the physical, mental, social, emotional, cognitive and every other kind of development of children. We also included in our report as much evidence as we could on how play is changing. Many people would feel from the experience of their childhood that the way children play today has changed dramatically and many have concerns about whether this is good.

We carried out a superficial audit of current play provision when we were developing the policy at the end of 2002. At that stage there were only 168 local authority provided playgrounds. Compared to the United Kingdom and Europe, we were doing badly as that is a very low level of provision. We would argue that playgrounds are only a part of the landscape of play. That said, however, they are a visible part. If there are no playgrounds for small children, people see that and become exercised about the issue. There are huge variations between local authorities with some doing considerably better than others. The good news is that the launch of the play policy in March 2004 was marked by a Government fund for the set up of local authority playgrounds and as a result we have 79 additional playgrounds.

One of the main issues that arose in the development of the play policy was the increasingly less child-friendly environment. This is the result of a range of issues one of the most significant of which is traffic, which is a fear of both children and parents. There is also a fear for children's safety and parents are increasingly reluctant to let children out to play unsupervised. Insurance is an issue for those seeking to provide facilities for children, more particularly for local community and parent groups than for the local authorities. Funding is another issue. A further issue, not included in the list I have provided, is the organisation of children's time. Children spend far more time in informal and formal child care arrangements and get fewer opportunities to socialise freely.

We came up with eight objectives for the play policy that were very much derived from a consultation with all the stakeholders. I will highlight just a few of these. Raising awareness of the importance of play and the creation of a child-friendly environment are two of the most significant. I hope the policy shows convincingly that children play wherever they are. Play cannot be curtailed to what is defined as play areas for children. They play everywhere, at school, at home, on the way to school and on the way to wherever they are going. Children learn through play.

The policy sets out 52 actions for the relevant Departments, our office and the local authorities, and to a lesser extent for the health boards and the voluntary and community sector. I will skip through the actions for the local authority and move to education because that is the focus of our attention at this committee. A feature of our policy is that play in school should be enhanced. We have set out four actions relating to play in primary schools dealing with the interval of 30 minutes, the school modernisation plan, school plans and teacher training.

Another action related to increasing the provision of publicly funded play is the need to investigate making school buildings available for recreation facilities for local communities. This issue was raised with regard to the cost of land and increasing lack of available land. We have buildings like schools available and should be innovative regarding ways to use them.

We particularly wanted to distinguish play from the PE curriculum. There is an element of play in the curriculum, but we wanted to acknowledge the fact that children play wherever they are. We want to put particular emphasis on the importance of the school break which has come more under threat as a result of schools curtailing what children do both in terms of activity and time available for it. Play must also be given more recognition in teacher training. It is recognised, but to a limited degree as only six hours of teacher training is devoted to play. Play must be integrated in school life and become part of the school planning process because schools are about children who are very much about play.

A Government decision approving the play policy emphasised that implementation should encourage local funding, commercial scholarship and roll-out of the 2000 levy. I spoke briefly about the playgrounds grants scheme in 2004. We also had a grants scheme for RAPID playgrounds which resulted in investment of €3 million for them in 2004, over and above the scheme for local authority playgrounds.

With regard to implementation, monitoring and evaluation of the policy, our office is driving implementation. We are working on our own actions where appropriate and supporting and encouraging other Departments to do their bit. The issue of the play resource centre was raised by people active in child care and children's issues who feel that there is a need for expertise and help on this. People want to do something but are not sure what they should do. The play resource centre will provide support, advice, evidence and dissemination of information and research to anyone involved in play, particularly local authorities. The city and county development boards are responsible for implementation at a local level, as they are for the implementation of the national children's strategy. We report to the Cabinet sub-committee on children on progress with the policy and will have an evaluation at the end of 2005.

We are now working on a recreation policy for 12 to 18 year olds which we hope to have in place by the end of the year. We are finalising a consultation document and we intend to have extensive consultation with young people, particularly on recreation.

Chairman

I now invite Ms McMorris to make a presentation on behalf of the Department of Education and Science.

Ms Doreen Morris

When we think of play, most of us think of children having fun. Fun is a necessary and essential part of play. However, we tend to acknowledge less often the central role of play in children's development. Through their interactions with objects or others in the context of play, children can develop imagination and creativity, develop as thinkers, develop physically, develop social skills, develop language and learn how to handle their emotions among others. Hence, play as a learning tool is mainstreamed in the work of primary schools.

Children experience play in two main settings when at school: formal play in the classroom and recreational play in the playground. By formal play, I am referring to the use of play in lessons to achieve the objectives of the curriculum. Regarding recreational play, the rules for national schools provide for a minimum 30 minutes recreation period each day out of a typical school day of 4 hours 40 minutes for infant classes and 5 hours 40 minutes for all other class levels. An additional five minute morning and afternoon break is also allowed which is combined by almost all schools into a ten minute morning break.

The primary curriculum was developed by the National Council for Curriculum and Assessment and was launched by the Department of Education and Science in 1999. It encompasses the philosophical thrust of its predecessor, the 1971 curaclam na bunscoile, along with the recommendations of the review body on the primary curriculum in 1990. It reflects the thinking and aspirations of the National Convention on Education in 1994, the White Paper on Education, "Charting our Education Future", in 1995 and the Education Act 1998. The primary curriculum incorporates the principles of current educational thinking and the accompanying guidelines encourage highly innovative and effective practice in teaching. Whereas the teacher handbooks of the 1971 curriculum comprised two volumes, the primary curriculum of 1999 consists of 23 volumes covering 11 subjects.

The primary curriculum aims to allow every child to experience success in learning and to gain both a desire to learn and a love of learning. It reflects the trend in many countries towards active involvement that is enjoyable for the pupil, participative and stimulating. Thus, when one visits an Irish primary school today, one is unlikely to see children seated in rows for long periods. Instead, they will be involved in activity and discovery which involves movement, collaboration and work out of doors. They will be using varying materials and media such as clay paints and natural materials.

Time in class will involve children working in a circle at "circle time" or working in pairs or groups. Generally, pupils love circle time and the opportunities it gives them to talk about themselves and one another. They could be discussing, for example, the best day or worst day of their lives or what they would do if they saw a child being bullied. Circle time assists children's development by teaching them, for example, that only one person should speak at any one time and that respect should be shown for others and their views.

The curriculum emphasises structured play as opposed to free play. This means that the teacher influences and directs children's play experiences within the classroom in order to maximise their learning during play activity. The teacher's role is to interact with individual children and groups of children, to contribute to the activity involved, to support it with collaborative talk and to challenge the children. Teachers promote learning through play by asking questions, prompting new directions for the play activity, initiating dialogue, introducing a new child into the particular activity, encouraging individual children to co-operate in play activity and encouraging role-playing. Such activity is particularly suited to the needs of young children. Excellent examples of good practice can be observed in settings such as Early Start and preschools for Travellers where young children are provided with experiences in sand and water play which challenge and extend their learning.

Through play, junior infants learn how to work independently, how to find equipment and materials, how to work as part of a group and how to share resources. Examples of play activities that lay foundations for work in mathematics are pupils working as individuals, or as groups, classifying objects on the basis of colour, shape, texture or size, ordering objects according to length or height or making patterns with objects.

A core element of the curriculum in English and Irish is dramatic play and role play where children are encouraged to imitate the people around them by recreating scenes from everyday life and acting out familiar roles. They can experiment with the language they have already acquired as well as new vocabulary to which they are being introduced. As they grow, their ability to imagine exerts greater influence on the nature of their play. Their play becomes increasingly complex and the narratives which are created include more characters and episodes. For example, the acting out of the role of shopkeeper and customer-buying, selling and negotiating, as it happens in real life, is a highly beneficial learning experience for young children. In a senior class, improvisational drama might involve acting out a scene from the Famine, exploring the relationships between the children who crept out at night into the potato field to see what their elders meant by blight.

Games are an effective aid to the teaching of mathematics. Card and dice games can reinforce number recognition and help in the development of strategies. They also encourage co-operation and turn-taking. Older children can design their own board games. Games involving chance are popular with older children. Chance promotes thinking, discussion and decision-making and the concept is generally familiar to children through board games and sporting activities.

An example of the use of play to promote learning in mathematics is, in the context of exploring the theme of "An Post", the involvement of third and fourth class pupils in weighing letters and parcels, guessing the weight of a postbag, calculating the height and width of letterboxes, finding out how many stamps would cover an envelope and calculating the cost of sending letters and parcels in Ireland and overseas.

As the curriculum is designed to encourage integration, the teacher might decide to extend the theme of "An Post" to lessons in other subjects. Irish lessons might focus on conversations with the postperson who is delivering letters and on the writing of letters. The teacher might further develop the theme by exploring in geography lessons the countries to which their letters are being sent and in visual arts by investigating stamps of other countries and designing stamps.

In music, children naturally play with and explore rhythmic melodic features through singing and through simple instruments, varying tempo and dynamics instinctively. They can learn rhythm notation through games and activities that involve movement to music. Play is also an integral part of the drama curriculum, which is now one of the 11 subjects to be taught to all pupils in primary schools.

Enabling the child to experiment and explore is a major focus of each of the strand units in the visual arts curriculum. The construction strand, in particular, encourages inventiveness and allows for experimentation in spontaneous, imaginative and increasingly structured ways.

Physical education provides opportunities to develop important personal and social attributes such as the concept of fair play, the acceptance of success and failure, and the ability to co-operate in group situations. In-service training for teachers to support implementation of physical education is currently being delivered and will be complete by June 2006. During in-service, teachers are encouraged to use the guided discovery approach, where emphasis is placed on leading the children to explore and experiment with movement through the provision of informal play experiences. A key message is the importance of considering the needs of every child in the class — those who like contact activities and those who do not, those who like competition and those who do not and those with physical and learning disabilities.

The games strand of the physical education curriculum focuses on the development of skills, the creation and playing of games and the understanding of games. In the past formal drills and a strong emphasis on competition took from the enjoyment of physical activity for some children. Small-sided activities and games now enable all children to experience success. These mini-games are designed to suit children's developmental stages, the size of the playing area and the equipment available. In the aquatic strand the emphasis is on fun activities to develop confidence and competence in, near and around water. This includes playing water-based games in a pool setting.

The curriculum gives schools flexibility to design individual physical education programmes in accordance with the available facilities. Some schools have constraints on available indoor or outdoor play space. Where appropriate facilities are not available within the school, teachers are encouraged to gain access to an appropriate community facility and find creative ways of working with the facilities available. For example, some schools with tight yard space have playground games painted onto yard surfaces and zoned playground space separating junior and senior pupils.

Recreational play is an important feature of everyday school life in that pupils are given opportunities to engage in play contexts which they choose and which, according to the national play policy, are "the result of personally directed, intrinsically motivated behaviour". The 30 minute recreation period and the two five minute breaks during which pupils can engage in physical activities are important to allow them a mental break from classroom-based activities and develop in them an early interest in physical activity that will contribute to healthy lifestyles as adults.

Schools are obliged to ensure pupils are supervised during these periods and the Department of Education and Science funds such supervision. Traditionally, pupils in Irish schools have participated in a range of semi-formal and informal activities in playgrounds prior to the start of the school day and during in-school recreational periods. A feature of many rural schools is the continuing enthusiastic engagement of pupils in semi-formal games such as pupil-initiated football and basketball games.

A growing concern about litigation, however, has led to some schools restricting the types of activity in which pupils are allowed to engage. In response to health and safety concerns many boards of management have developed alternative recreational contexts. For example, some have traditional games such as snakes and ladders, hopscotch and odd-man-out painted on school yards to facilitate safe play during play time.

Some urban schools have developed play pal schemes to prevent bullying and other difficulties in the playground. These structured play contexts, co-ordinated by teachers and organised by senior pupils, involve the division of the school yard into a series of activities a few days each week. Other pupils engage in these activities by rotation. Several schools, particularly in disadvantaged areas, have invested significant resources in providing mini playgrounds for junior classes where pupils can access climbing frames, slides, etc.

In recent years the State has invested heavily in modernising schools. Between 1998 and 2004 almost €2 billion was invested in primary and post-primary educational infrastructure in 7,500 individual building projects; site purchases; dust, asbestos and radon remediation programmes; science initiatives; contingency furniture and equipment. At primary level, this has delivered 84 new school buildings, over 350 large-scale refurbishment and extension projects and over 6,000 smaller scale projects and thousands of small scale projects under the annual minor works grants scheme. This programme includes outdoor play areas and will continue for the next few years. An additional €493 million has been allocated for investment in school accommodation in 2005. The Minister recently announced that a further 122 major projects at primary and post-primary level will proceed to tender and construction within the next 12 to 15 months.

The Department is committed to funding the provision of physical education, general purpose and outdoor play areas in schools as part of the schools capital investment programme. Providing recreational facilities such as hardcore ball courts, general purpose rooms at primary level and PE halls at post-primary level is considered an integral part of the design stage of any major refurbishment programme of existing school buildings, provided always that the site is of a sufficient size, or a new school is being built on a greenfield site.

Applications for the provision of enhanced PE or sports facilities in schools are considered in the context of all other applications in hand for capital investment, for example, applications for new schools, refurbishment projects, extensions, new sites, remediation programmes and so on. When an application for new or refurbished accommodation is approved, the size of the school determines what is provided. Smaller national schools are sanctioned for an outside ball court area of 585 sq. m. and a junior play area of 200 sq. m. Separate general purpose rooms are provided in larger national schools. A 16 classroom school is provided with a general purpose room of 200 sq. m., two outside ballcourts and a junior play area of 430 sq. m. Equipment is also provided. The Department is committed to the provision of modern school buildings, including outdoor play areas.

The Department's inspectorate evaluates the effectiveness of the teaching and learning processes in schools through whole school evaluation. During this process, teachers receive individual and whole school feedback on areas requiring further development while a report issues to the board of management. A major thrust of inspectors' recommendations is to encourage schools to develop a variety of teaching approaches, one of which is structured play in the sense of promoting learning through activity and discovery in a context of fun and enjoyment.

The National Council for Curriculum and Assessment will soon begin the development of a framework to support children's early learning. This will complement existing curriculum guidance by creating more coherence and connectedness across learning for children from birth to six years of age. A major section of the document launched by the council in June last year to initiate its nationwide consultative process is devoted to the critical context of play in supporting all aspects of the child's learning and development. It can, therefore, be expected that the framework that emerges will give a central position to play in the lives of young children.

The Department has just completed evaluations of the implementation of English, mathematics and visual arts programmes, that is, three of the 11 subjects, in primary schools and of literacy and numeracy achievement in disadvantaged schools. The reports on these evaluations will be published in April this year. The council is also about to publish a report on its review of the implementation of the primary curriculum to date. These reports will discuss the teaching approaches used in primary schools, with the challenges identified by teachers in seeking to vary their methodologies as recommended in the curriculum. An outcome of this imminent debate will be a further highlighting of the greater need for structured play in primary schools.

Deputy Enright

I welcome our visitors and thank them for their presentations. Both presentations dealt with the issue of insurance. The traditional response of local authorities to questions about the lack of provision for playgrounds is the cost of insurance and the risk of litigation and so on. Some counties are more proactive than others and seem to be less concerned about this.

Ms McMorris has mentioned that some schools are changing what they do because of the risk of litigation. If a curriculum is in place, schools are required to implement it. Are they changing matters outside the curriculum or are there parts of the curriculum that they do not implement because of the fear of litigation? Surely they should be implementing all parts of the curriculum. Is the Department aware of the level and costs of claims to schools? I accept such information would be collated by the schools rather than the Department. Is it a significant issue or is it being used as an excuse by schools? Is there a problem with the facilities in particular schools? Due to unsuitable surfaces, which schools cannot afford to improve, is it more dangerous to allow children to play in the playgrounds? Are schools not able to implement the programmes they should?

Six hours of teacher training are devoted to play. Is that through the curriculum or is it to evolve teachers' skills for use in the playground? The number of schools with general purpose rooms was mentioned. It has been my experience that when a school gets overcrowded, the general purpose room is allocated as a classroom. This is happening more in pressure areas. How can play policies be implemented within a school if the facilities are not there?

The presentation also referred to the new sections of the curriculum such as swimming and the use of pools. That would be lovely if one lived in a town with a swimming pool. What alternatives are available? Does the Department finance those schools ten miles from a swimming pool to bring pupils there to avail of such facilities? On average, there are only three swimming pools per county and children from rural schools would not have ready access to them.

Ms Kennedy spoke of trends and changes to play in schools. Has the use of PlayStations and similar interactive games affected children's attitudes to play? Are their social skills and their ability to interact with each other being affected?

Deputy O’Sullivan

I am interested in the difference of emphasis on play in the two presentations. Obviously, the Department of Education and Science must be more interested in more structured activities. Does Ms Kennedy consider these organised activities in the classroom as play? A distinction was made between sport and play; Ms Kennedy spoke about free play, such as child-directed play when the child decides what to play and when. To what extent is there a need for adults to interfere if there is bullying or exclusion of other children? Play situations must be supervised in schools.

Deputy Enright already raised the issue of insurance. Has the Department ever considered taking a more proactive role in providing insurance? It is the individual responsibility of schools to insure their property. Would it be cheaper for insurance provision to be administered centrally, letting schools pay a fraction of costs? Would the Department consider looking for competitive quotations in bulk insurance? While most schools use the same insurance company, there must be some scope to address this issue collectively. If this was achieved, there would be a better chance of having school property available for community activities.

Research has been undertaken on the usefulness of play in pre-school children's development. To what extent is play valuable to language development? The delegations referred to maths and structured play. Has any evaluation been done on free play and language skills? Much good language work is done with children when they are not told what to do.

I know Ms Kennedy will not agree that physical education is play. I accept it is departmental policy to have physical education and sports areas in schools. However, in practice, when schools did not get funding for an extra classroom, they were informed to use their general purpose and physical education rooms for this purpose. I had three examples in three counties where schools had to do so. While I accept the Department is being proactive and there is a limited budget for school buildings, this should not happen. I should be addressing this question to Ms Teresa Griffin. However, it is wrong for schools to lose their physical education rooms in such circumstances.

Deputy Gogarty

Before Lucan was rezoned to death, I was lucky enough to roam its fields, playing and exploring, which many kids cannot now do. I argue for unsupervised play where possible. However, recently in an inner city school, two five year olds were pulled off each other. One of the boys was asked what they were doing, to which he replied they were having sex. When the teacher asked where he got that from, he replied he had seen it on a video. That might not be typical of a more innocent rural school. However, it is a growing danger that kids do not get the same socialisation opportunities at preschool level as they used to. Instead they are on PlayStations and watching videos inappropriate to their age. In turn, they tend to play out what they watch as play is an exploration of the adult world for children. Some types of play are inappropriate. Has the delegation come across an increase in such incidents? What advice are teachers being given to deal with this? Is it a social or supervisory problem?

It can be argued that non-sport play is separate to physical education. However, when kids play football on their own, such as during yard-time, it involves socialisation such as development of leadership and negotiation skills, which must be welcomed. However, one gaelscoil in the Dublin Mid-West constituency will be trebled in size through an extension. The school wanted to put in extra play space but cannot because of the expansion. The active play space is being reduced to cater for a demand. The school is not complaining too much because it is using the general purpose area. I will not go into the ethos of the gaelscoileanna which is a separate issue. Do the witnesses think that the almost €500 million allotted this year is sufficient for schools? The newer schools are obviously being well catered for but many schools do not have active sports play areas, rather have a general purpose room which is used as a library or as another classroom.

Is the way forward, as Ms Kennedy said, to get in touch with community bodies, either to let them use the school buildings in order to maximise their efficiency or to act as a sort of encouragement? For example, a school might need sanctioning to develop a sports hall and the Department might be delaying that because of prioritisation. Is there scope for the Department to liaise with local authorities or community groups to create a slightly bigger or more multi-purpose sports hall which would be exclusively available to the school during certain hours but would be open to the community both at preschool and senior citizen level, people of all ages, during other parts of the day? That would have insurance implications of a positive nature, and usage implications.

The new PE curriculum will include swimming. Deputy Enright noted that not every town would have a swimming pool and one might have to travel eight or ten miles to find one. In the city area one might have to travel only two miles but it might take one a hour to travel that distance. While Birr has a swimming pool and Ballyshannon, with a population of 2,500, also has a pool, Lucan, with 36,000 people, has no pool. Has the Department considered a partnership with a council to build a swimming pool which would be shared by a number of schools but would be open to the public outside hours? If not, why not?

I support what Deputy O'Sullivan said. I asked the Minister on a previous occasion about a school which had no money for insurance and which was told to use the devolved grant to pay that insurance, which was hiked up significantly over a year. Why can the Department not get involved in insurance if the costs are proving prohibitive? Has the Department noticed the rising insurance costs and if so, can pressure be put on the Minister to put pressure on the Cabinet to consider the issue of public liability insurance?

Residents on a housing estate cannot have a picnic or party on a nearby green space because of the prohibitive cost of public liability insurance, yet that is the only space on which kids can play. By the same token, kids might want to play in the vicinity of a school on their way to school or just after school, but they are not allowed out at certain times with minimal supervision for rough play, which can also be developmental, because of the lack of teachers or resources. Should the Government make more effort to tackle the issue of public liability insurance or even to get parents to make some sort of watertight legal statement which would minimise the impact on the school where their kids may be injured while play-acting with other kids? I know there are bullying issues but the area needs to be tightened up to reduce the overall costs.

Deputy Crowe

I welcome the witnesses. The documents refer to the direct linkage between play and learning and child development. I welcome the mention of fun, which play is supposed to be all about, in my understanding.

Bullying has been touched on. How big a problem is it, particularly in the playground? Is it hyped up? A recent survey in my own area culminating in the west Tallaght childhood development initiative report noted the extent of bullying. It was emphasised very much in the media but the statements came from the kids themselves, who were interviewed, and there seemed to be a big problem in the area. Is that reflected in other areas? I am glad to hear that card and dice games are a positive thing. In my time they were considered a sign of a misspent youth and we were considered to be involved in the devil's games. Regarding the major area of insurance and litigation, no doubt the Department is looking at the situation in other countries.

There is an over-reliance on local authorities to develop playgrounds and so on. Such development has failed in the past and the document provided shows how few playgrounds there are. There has been a failure in promoting social housing, never mind playgrounds. Will the Department take a more active role in developing playgrounds? I know that some of the RAPID areas are siting playgrounds in community centres but the big problem has always been supervision. I was involved in a group which received funding for a playground in Jobstown. That playground remained closed for years because there was no one to supervise it. That represented child abuse in that area, with kids unable to access a state-of-the-art playground. Eventually the kids cut a hole in the fence and got in but all sorts of activity then began to take place there at night and dangers arose.

What importance does the Department attach to security and fencing of play areas? We all know of schools which might be close to busy roads but which do not have fencing. Is the Department concerned about such schools? How important is play in terms of burning up children's energy? Obesity has not been mentioned but there is growing concern about it and play is important in tackling it.

Finally, I know of a number of schools waiting at least ten years for PE halls. No doubt it comes down to funding, but what importance does the Department give to such facilities in terms of child development? What is the demand? How many schools are looking for basic facilities such as playgrounds and PE halls? What are the costs and how much time is involved? Will it take ten, 20 or 30 years for all schools to have playgrounds and PE halls?

Deputy Gogarty

There are currently more golf courses in this country than playgrounds. Does the Department or Ms Kennedy have any idea when that gap might be bridged?

Ms Kennedy

I will deal with the last question first. When we did our survey at the end of 2002, that statistic about there being more golf courses than playgrounds was the one everyone remembered. Matters have improved significantly since then. Even at the end of 2002 our figures did not include town council playgrounds so the provision might have been understated. Through the funding put in place by Government in the past year, there are at least 79 more playgrounds, which improves the situation if one considers an additional 80 or so added to the 170. Many local authorities are themselves working on the issue. The figures are significantly better but on average we are not yet at the point where we have a ratio of one playground per 10,000 population, which is what is encouraged by the guidelines from the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government. There is a lot more interest in playgrounds and much more local demand for them.

Deputy Enright asked about the six hours dedicated to play in teacher training. Our information is that it is dedicated to the management and organisation of play activities. I read that to mean unstructured rather than structured play. It is not play as a teaching method but on its own. Deputy O'Sullivan asked about the role of adults in play. There is information in our play policy on page 39. Ferney sets out guidelines for what adults should do in play. Regarding smaller children, there seems to be a role for getting involved. It is very much a case of ensuring one values play and allows children the time and material to indulge in it. One must supervise them to the extent that one intervenes if a conflict arises that they cannot manage themselves. A certain amount of play is learning to manage conflict oneself. It is only if it escalates or is not being resolved that one need get involved. There might be particular children with special needs who need to be supervised more than others.

To answer another question, our emphasis on the play policy is very much on unstructured play. That is what we were talking about, since I bet that, when the children who raised this issue talked about play, they were not talking about how they were being taught in schools, however innovative, creative and valuable that might be. I think they meant their free time or lack thereof.

Deputy Enright mentioned technological changes in play. When we were drawing up the play policy, we found there is not that much research, and what there is tends to be from the UK, which is far ahead of us on this. One can extrapolate a certain amount, but one does not want to take it all completely unquestioningly. One of the big issues is the new toys that children are playing with, the technology and telephones. In the National Children's Office, we have just received a piece of research on play and technology to answer exactly those questions. Rather than condemn new technologies as not having any of the advantages of old-fashioned play and toys, we wanted to examine them.

The preliminary findings are that children adapt what they have in a playful way. That sounds terrible, but they use technology to be interactive with each other. They see mobile phones as a new way of communicating with each other. It is not all bad, but we need more information on it. There is certainly research in the UK context to show that children are spending a great deal less time outdoors and unsupervised. Regardless of whether one could argue that there is a play value in technological toys and so on, we still need to examine the amount of time children are spending on their own. They are having less time to socialise in an unplanned way with children whom they do not know. Research is showing that children are using technology to communicate with each other. They may look like they are on their own. One could argue that this is virtual communication and that the face-to-face sort might be better.

Deputy Enright also talked about insurance. The officials can answer for the Department of Education and Science, but the local authorities and the playgrounds all have insurance with Irish Public Bodies Mutual Insurances Limited and have a general scheme that covers everything that they do and all their sites. No distinction is drawn between accidents in the playground and those from falling over an uneven kerbstone. When we were preparing the policy, we conducted research on the number of claims, which was not excessive. That is not to say that matters might not have worsened significantly since, but it did not appear to be a huge problem or area of litigation. We have guidelines from Irish Public Bodies Mutual Insurances Limited on what the local authorities can do to minimise their exposure to claims. It is fairly obvious that the equipment must be up to standard, maintained and supervised and that one must keep records. If one does all that, one can fight a claim, for want of a better word.

There is also the initiative in the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment regarding public liability insurance, which is obviously a wider issue than play but will affect it. It is all about reducing the cost of such insurance and the burden that litigation places on local authorities and Departments. We did not come across any research on the usefulness of play regarding the development of language. There is research to indicate that play is good for children, since it causes them to mix with others from different backgrounds. That is a matter of acceptance and social development, but when it comes to developing language, we do not have any evidence.

On watching videos and children acting out what they see, our preliminary findings on play and technology indicate that research on the damage this can do is not conclusive, with results pointing both ways. We cannot come down on either side of that. I return to the point that the ideal is that play be unsupervised, but if difficulties arise, children must have someone to go to.

On the local authorities, in the past two years there have been significant improvements. We recommended in the national children's strategy back in 2000 that responsibility for play be specifically assigned to a particular body or person. That has not happened in every case, but it is getting better, and a process of setting up a network of play development officers is ongoing. Only Dublin City Council has a full-time play development officer, but in other local authorities it can be the sports officer or a park superintendent. There is a network, and we are trying to formalise it in order that there might be someone in every local authority with this responsibility. It is also getting a much higher profile in councils' strategies for economic, social and cultural development.

Regarding the supervision of playgrounds, as I mentioned in my presentation, the insurance issue is much more important for voluntary and community groups and parents. We have been told by the local authorities that in situations where they are building playgrounds and the local community is willing and able to supervise them, the insurance company does not want that as part of the arrangement. They insist that the entire responsibility and burden of supervision fall on the local authority. That is militating against the kind of co-operation that would seem to be a step forward. Regarding playgrounds being built and not used, we would argue that the design and location are crucial. One needs an element of passive supervision, and that is where one runs into difficulties, since some adults do not want a playground near them, yet if one puts it somewhere not within sight of houses or passing traffic, the chances of its being vandalised and misused are much greater. We also have so few facilities for teenagers that what tends to happen is that playgrounds are used by older children in the absence of anything else. The ideal would be a playground for the smaller children and something for the older ones.

Deputy Gogarty

I would play in them myself.

Ms Kennedy

It would be great. The Deputy is a child at heart. That is the ideal. If I have missed anything, members can come back to me.

Ms McMorris

I will attempt to deal with some of the general questions regarding education and then ask Pádraig MacFhlannchadha to speak from the perspective of a primary inspector with a great deal of experience in schools. I hope this will bring more reality to what I am saying. Teresa Griffin will give the perspective from the building and resourcing point of view.

Deputy Enright asked whether schools were implementing the curriculum. I would like to clarify that play, as I have described it in the paper, takes place in two ways, either recreationally in the schoolyard or the 30 minutes allocated as part of activities in the classroom. Play is not a mandatory part of the curriculum and the subjects being taught. It is one of a range of methodologies recommended to teachers. The focus in the new curriculum is very much on teachers using a variety of methods and incorporating a great deal of activity, work in groups and pairs, real-life materials and so on. Teachers are trained, particularly through the in-service that accompanies the curriculum, to think of play and to use it on an ongoing basis. It is not a question of deliberately leaving play out of the delivery of the curriculum, from the viewpoint of the classroom work. As regards recreational play, that is loose and unstructured and what happens in the playground is very much within the context in which a school operates, as regards what the children want to do and so on. I do not share the concern that teachers are not implementing the curriculum because they are not doing play, so to speak.

With regard to physical education, which is one of the 11 subjects, the curriculum has been designed in such a way that schools have a good deal of flexibility in terms of the programmes they deliver. There are six strands and it is recommended that in any year five of them are delivered to each year group. Even within the programme for each year group, there is significant flexibility. One of the key areas on which teachers are provided with guidelines is using resources that are most suitable and available to them.

On the other question Deputy Enright asked with regard to the level of insurance claims, I do not have access to information of that nature. However, I do not believe this information is available within the Department, because as we know, schools are managed and run by boards of management. The Education Act is very clear as regards the functions of the boards. We all know from the newspapers that such issues arise on a day-to-day basis. However, it is not part of the Department's role to be keeping track of what is happening at the level of individual schools, on a routine basis. To my knowledge, that information is not available.

With regard to teacher training, Ms Kennedy explained about the six hours in the course. In the course of the methodologies to support the different subjects, the trainee teachers are being exposed to play on an ongoing basis as a tool which should be mainstreamed for the delivery of all subjects. The six hours relates to the management and organisation of recreational play. To complement that, play is a large part of training throughout the full programme.

As regards swimming pools, I know this is quite an issue at school level throughout the country. Access to swimming pools in terms of delivering the aquatic strand is certainly a difficulty, particularly for schools that cannot come to an arrangement with the pool that is within a reasonable and practical distance. However, the aquatic strand may be one that schools are forced into not delivering. It is better to have some children, or those who are near the facilities, in a position to avail of them rather than depriving everybody of that aspect of PE. There is an issue which will not be easily resolved. There are aspects of the aquatic strand, however, that can be delivered without access to a pool on a regular basis, such as water safety etc. Therefore, these are aspects that the children may benefit from.

As regards the distinction between sport and play, from the Department's perspective, sport, games and the activities involved in PE are seen as part of play. After all, this is the Department of Education and Science. Therefore, that will not be a surprise to members of the committee. As regards organising the provision of insurance from a central position, I am not aware of any progress. One of the reasons is that the circumstances that pertain to schools vary greatly in terms of the type of facilities they have, the extent to which there is a presence at weekends and during holiday times etc. There is also the question of size and all the other practical factors. The fact that boards of management are fully in control of managing their schools is also a factor. It would be unusual for the Department to impose any type of structure on an aspect of school management of that nature. However, I will take a note of that point and will inquire about it when I return to the Department.

As the committee knows, I am representing the inspectorate, as is Mr. MacFhlannchadha. We are looking at play from the perspective of the curriculum and as regards what happens within schools on a day-to-day basis. As we are not in the best position to answer that question, we will refer it back. I thank the Deputy for raising it.

I am not able to point to anything that may be helpful as regards research on the role of informal play rather than the structured play that takes place in classes on the development of language — perhaps Mr. MacFhlannchadha can do so. In answer to the Deputy's questions as regards children imitating what they see on PlayStations, videos etc., that may be generalised into all the activities that take place in school in terms of the type of language they use, the activities and so on. Unfortunately, the only response I can give is that this is a factor of daily living and is part of what teachers must try to deal with on a daily basis in schools. I do not have an answer to it. Again, the quality of supervision during the 30 minute period and at breaks is very important. The role of the teacher in being able to intervene in the case described indicates the significance of the supervision that is in place.

I like the point made about asking parents to enter into a partnership as regards public liability issues and will refer this back to the Department. From the experiences I am aware of that have taken place at school level in terms of parents and English children etc., I am not sure how practical this is, but I have certainly taken note of the suggestion.

The Deputy asked whether we have any figures regarding the extent of bullying. My first reaction is that while in many cases it comes to the forefront, there is also a good deal of covert bullying. That is part of life, unfortunately, but we do not have any way of measuring bullying. It is an issue to some extent for all schools. Within the Education Welfare Act, there is an obligation on schools to draw up and issue a code of behaviour which clearly sets out the programme in place for dealing with bullying. In many schools there is an open campaign against bullying, as regards posters and structures such as peer support, the idea of a mentor for young children and so on. Good practice is being identified with regard to how bullying may be dealt with at school level. I believe, however, it is there to stay and teachers need access to the guidelines that exist for schools in order to help them to deal with these problems. Certainly, the code of behaviour has brought a level of requirement at school level. Therefore, they have to address the issue.

Deputy Crowe

We do not know whether the problem is getting worse. Ms McMorris has said there is no way of measuring it.

Ms McMorris

We have no way of measuring it because bullying takes place in different ways, depending on the ages of the children and whether they are boys or girls, etc. Schools are strongly advised to have a system in place for reporting and recording incidents. However, it is likely that in most schools an element of bullying is taking place at different levels, which may not be reported. One of the major challenges as regards bullying is to ensure that children are reporting it so the issues may be addressed in consultation with parents and the other people involved. A number of packs, sports materials and so on are in place to help schools, teachers and parents, because identifying the bully and the bullied are major steps in all of this.

Ms Griffin would be better able to give some indication regarding golf courses and playgrounds.

Pádraig MacFhlannchada

I am not aware of any research into the role of play in promoting language. However, there seems to be a general understanding that it does play a vital role in that regard. This is reflected in the primary school curriculum. Play is proposed as a methodology, particularly in developing language in junior classes where the teacher would play a significant role in directing such development.

Deputy O’Sullivan

I wish to clarify what I was speaking about. Research shows that some children hear much more vocabulary in their own homes than other children. Some work may have been done in trying to draw the children with less language into situations where they develop their vocabulary in a natural way through interaction.

Pádraig MacFhlannchadha

Obviously, if a child is only learning language from an adult, he or she will only learn it in one context. Play is important because if children play together, they will be motivated to interact with their peers. That is the significant factor in wanting to learn language. Listening to children and their expressions, much of it is what they have learned from their peers rather than from adults. Therefore, play is a significant factor.

There were a number of concerns with regard to inappropriate play and the issue of bullying in the school yard. The question was asked whether it was a social problem or a matter of supervision. It is not really a matter of supervision in that all schools are obliged to provide supervision in the school yard and it is very structured. As schools also deal with pupils who come in from outside society, what often happens is reflective of what happens outside.

The onus on schools is to be proactive in how they handle the issue. One way is to ensure children are engaged in more positive and structured activities. Many schools have taken steps to structure school yard activities. In the classroom the issue would be dealt with as part of the social, personal and health educational programme within the context of the anti-bullying policy as per the school's code of discipline. The SPHE programme is proactive in dealing with such issues and tries to prevent such instances from occurring. If they do, the programme attempts to deal with them within the classroom through activities such as circle time as well as other aspects such as the Stay Safe programme which was introduced a number of years ago and one of the modules of which deals with the importance of play in burning up energy. When children have been inside a classroom, it is very important that they get the opportunity to go out into the school yard and engage as much as possible in challenging physical activity. Different factors present themselves in each school. Most schools take proactive steps once they identify difficulties.

Ms Teresa Griffin

A number of questions were raised relating to play facilities in schools. With regard to the use of GP rooms as classrooms where schools are overcrowded or unsuccessful in securing grant aid for a prefab, the Department's view is that funding must be prioritised. If a school has other facilities which can be used as a classroom, we must prioritise funding for schools with no other facilities. For that reason, schools with other facilities were asked to use them for classrooms in recent years.

Deputy Enright raised the issue of playground surfaces and, if they are uneven, whether this contributes to increased insurance claims. The Department is not aware of any such instances because any claims would be made against the school's insurance policy. However, the Department provides every primary school with funding on an annual basis under the minor works grants scheme to enable them to carry out minor remediation works such as levelling an uneven playground surface. Alternatively, schools can apply under the summer works scheme for more substantial funding if the project is bigger. Schools have done this.

Regarding whether €400 million is sufficient for schools——

Deputy Gogarty

There is already a €2.5 billion deficit for primary and post-primary projects.

Ms Griffin

The Department can only work with what it is given. We have spent €2 billion in recent years. The amount given to us this year is very substantial and is part of a continuing programme to modernise schools. We have achieved a lot.

On the issue of play, playgrounds and GP rooms, there are 116 projects at primary level, in the vast majority of which work is proceeding on site. In 105 of these projects there is either a GP room or the school is getting one. The issue of outside play and GP rooms is regarded as an integral part of the design process. Eleven schools will not be getting a GP room either because the schools are tiny, the sites are very small or the job might be a simple but urgent roof replacement as opposed to being part of the general school modernisation scheme.

A question was asked regarding the scope for the Department to liase with council or community groups to facilitate bigger PE or GP rooms for use by groups outside or after school hours. The Department has been working with such groups. For example, a number of schools within the Fingal area are getting enhanced GP or PE facilities which will be available to community groups. One word of caution: it is not a simple case of providing facilities into which the community groups will pop as soon school finishes. There are a number of issues, including insurance and caretaking services. Sometimes community groups assume somebody will be available to lock up but the principal is not going to hang around until 10 p.m., neither is the caretaker. We are working through these issues in Fingal. We are open to the possibility of community groups wanting to contribute to the cost of a bigger PE or GP hall, providing groups realise they do not have ownership of buildings in spite of their contribution. It would be more like a leasing arrangement.

On working with councils in the building of swimming pools, we must prioritise funding. There is a large deficit in terms of academic infrastructure which is our priority at this time.

Deputy Gogarty

A pool was recently opened in Monaghan with a gym attached at a cost of €7.8 million. The Department of Arts, Sport and Tourism spent €3.8 million on swimming pools, on which local authorities also spend money. One can envisage a scenario where the Department of Education and Science would look at three or four schools in an area in need of aquatic facilities and liase with local authorities on the issue of people using the pool before and after school hours and during the summer holidays. This would mean the Department of Arts, Sport and Tourism would provide €3.8 million, the Department of Education and Science would provide €2 million — for four schools — and the local authority would provide €2 million for a pool which it would then manage. Has the Department considered a model whereby an outdoor swimming facility would be copperfastened during certain hours for participating schools? This would be cost-effective from its perspective.

Ms Griffin

Such a model has not been considered. We are concerned with investing in the infrastructure of schools and unless a school is to have a swimming pool, it is not an issue we examine. However, I will raise the matter with my colleagues.

A number of questions were asked in regard to security and fencing around school play areas. Such issues are examined as part of the design process and facilities are provided where necessary. However, fencing is often an attraction to vandals. A number of studies of community facilities indicate that a hedge of the prickly variety is a more effective and cost-effective deterrent against vandals. Nevertheless, fencing is provided if its necessity is clearly flagged during the design process.

A question was asked as to the number of applications in hand for the provision of PE halls. There are 42 applications for stand-alone PE halls and 11 for stand-alone GP rooms at post-primary level, as distinct from applications for a new school or extension. However, the Department recognises that this is not an accurate reflection because 1,600 applications are in hand for general improvement works which may include the provision of PE halls.

How long these issues will take to address depends on how long funding continues to be provided. We have flagged an infrastructural deficit in the region of €2.5 billion to €3 billion. This deficit will be more quickly addressed if we receive €400 million rather than €200 million per year.

Deputy O’Sullivan

Can a school apply for funding for a hedge of the prickly variety under the summer works scheme?

Ms Griffin

I understand these hedges are very cheap and could easily be funded from a school's minor works grant.

Deputy O’Sullivan

If it were insufficient, could funding be provided under the summer works scheme?

Ms Griffin

I am unsure whether hedges fall within the priority rating. They certainly come under the minor works scheme but it may depend on the size of the campus.

Ms McMorris

I understand the research to which Deputy O'Sullivan referred is that recently undertaken by the Educational Research Centre on reading standards for children in disadvantaged schools. The general drift of the report is that factors in the home have a significant influence on the reading competency levels children acquire during their primary education. I do not recall whether play is specifically referenced but the level of exposure to language in the normal interactions that take place in life outside school are highlighted as being of major significance.

Chairman

On behalf of the joint committee, I thank the delegations from the Department and the National Children's Office for their contributions. We have had an informative meeting with good interaction between members and guests.

The joint committee adjourned at 1.05 p.m. until 11.30 a.m. on Thursday, 10 March 2005.