On behalf of the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Education and Science I welcome Mr. David MacDonald. Before we begin, I draw attention to the fact that while members of the committee have absolute privilege, the same privilege does not apply to witnesses appearing before it. Members are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the House or an official by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable. I call on Mr. MacDonald to make his presentation.
HIV/AIDS and Sexual Health Education: Discussion.
Mr. David MacDonald
I thank Deputy English for suggesting I meet the committee and I thank the committee for receiving me. I am originally from Canada and have been living in Ireland for almost seven years. In January 2005 I decided to introduce to the secondary school system a presentation with a strong approach to sexual health education and with a major focus on HIV and AIDS, something that was not previously there. My approach is progressive and, as I tell the students, in your face. Rather than describe what I do by giving the presentation in written form, it would be easier to give excerpts from the speech I deliver to students. I have been in around 120 secondary schools since January 2005 and I am working on my own, without outside funding. I was driven to do this by the passion I have for the issues of HIV and AIDS and sexual health in general.
When I enter a classroom I stand before the students, introduce myself and tell them I am there to talk about sexual health with a major focus on HIV and AIDS. Unlike traditional presentations I do not give them hand-outs or leaflets and force them to look through the facts and figures relating to HIV and AIDS because I believe that type of presentation no longer works. My approach is to share with them my personal experience of HIV and AIDS. I apologise to the students in advance because my presentation is somewhat progressive and in your face. From previous experience I know some of them will feel uncomfortable or emotional due to what I say, but it needs to be said and must be felt.
I begin by telling the students that I have AIDS and go on to tell them what having the disease means. I explain how I contracted HIV from my girlfriend and we deal with the moralistic approach to relationships, how we work through relationships, the effect of placing trust in other people and whether it erases our common sense. I am completely honest with the students and they tend to react quite well to this. I go on to describe the symptoms and stages of HIV.
I tell the students that my ex-girlfriend, Kristin, and I decided to have unprotected sex after two years. Before we did so I made an appointment for both of us to be tested for the HIV antibodies but she refused to go. I explain to the class that I did not linger on the fact that she did not want to be tested as this goes back to the trust and belief we put in people with the bigger hope we have that everything will work out for the best.
I stress to the students that there is a large commercial industry surrounding HIV and they agree that the one thing that is advertised as something that can protect us and keep us healthy is the use of a condom. However, I explain that condoms were not a factor for me and should not apply to this issue for any of us. The thing I was not using and should have been using was my brain. I emphasise the emotional approach, rather than stand in front of them handing out leaflets, hoping they will come to understand the importance of all of this.
In my presentation I go on to describe some of the symptoms I am now experiencing such as my eyes clouding over and the loss of strength in my legs. I talk about the obstacles we can overcome in life. My presentation involves many aspects and the focus is not simply on sexual health, sexual responsibility, HIV and AIDS: it is on the struggles we all face in life. I am a foreigner looking at Irish culture and I realise that some young people take permanent solutions to temporary problems and I tell the students that the only permanent solution to our problems is to keep knocking on doors. If one gets 1,000 doors slammed in one's face one should not think one is alone with one's problem. The only permanent solution is to keep knocking because, eventually, someone will have the courage to open that door and embrace the problem.
My presentation to the students normally lasts one hour and 20 minutes and in the short time I have before this committee I am trying to display the same passion that I would in a classroom. I go on to talk about the different reactions we get to our problems in life and I tell the students that what is important is not what we go through in life but the example we leave behind. I aim to give a positive example in my presentations that no obstacle is too big to get past. My story is difficult to tell, giving the presentation can be awkward and I explain to the students that if they are feeling awkward they can imagine how I feel sharing this experience as the only stranger in the room. I always tell the students that I hope they can feel the passion that I have for this subject and how much I want them to learn something so crucial about their value as young people. My philosophy is to always stand and speak and not sit and think. It is quite obvious that many of them just sit and think about their problems. The problem gets bigger and bigger and takes up all the space on the inside and comes out through being aggressive, bullying, depression, sadness or upset.
I have told the committee many personal things and hope members walk away understanding the bigger picture about what I am doing. I try to get rid of all the stereotypes about HIV and AIDS, but sometimes ignorance gets in the way of reality. I tell the groups I meet that I have told them many things, and wonder what some of them might still think of people living with HIV or AIDS. Some may still think, although I hope not, that one cannot be in the same room as me, shake my hand or share food.
There is one simple fact about HIV that can and will end all the ignorance: HIV cannot survive once it comes in contact with the open air, such as when someone coughs, sneezes, spits, cries or sweats. No matter how much one is wrapped up in one's own ignorance, if HIV could be passed from person to person so easily there would be many more cases of the virus in Ireland and worldwide.
I finish off every talk by telling the group that they are all in an age group where peer pressure is constantly at play, whether it is to participate in certain activities or say or do something to someone else just to be cool around one's friends for a few moments. I tell them that they will all make mistakes, but the important thing is to learn from them. I tell them not to dwell on mistakes for too long because if one dwells on life there is no progress in life. I have made thousands of minor mistakes that have not come back to haunt me. However, the one big mistake I made has slowly come back to do this.
During every presentation one senses a barrier and feels that one cannot learn any more. One asks what the point of all those presentations is. I ask them to please take down the barriers. I tell the audience that they can forget everything in the presentation if they want, as long as they walk away with one piece of advice. Advice is exactly what it is. Please do not switch into lecture mode as you normally would in other presentations. Whenever one finds oneself in awkward, uncomfortable, confusing and pressurised situations; no matter what some of ones friends may say or no matter what some of one's girlfriends or boyfriends may say, one should always remember when one finds oneself in one of those situations it is better to be smart than cool. The cool road is a very short one and the laughter dies out quite quickly. The smart road is a long one with many twists and turns and experiences. More importantly, on that smart road there will be more positive experiences for the individual and I tell them that they and they alone will have the final say in what type of person they want to become.
I go on to tell them that I did not want to give them hairnets or leaflets, because I honestly believed that if I had taken that approach, once the presentation was over, they would all close their hand-outs, some would politely say "Thank you" and all would walk through the door and the first thing most would look for — and they all agree — would be a bin to dispose of the leaflet. I realise this and had to ask myself that question when trying to take this progressive approach. I do not believe the leaflet approach works. I hope my approach has worked today. I want them to be able to sit as individuals among their schoolmates and open their hearts. If they take one word or one sentence that I have said to them, it is something that cannot be thrown in the bin when they walk out the door. It is something that will be of huge benefit to each and every one of them for many years to come, or if not to the participants themselves, then to a family member or friend.
I feel somewhat guilty about my approach because it is extremely progressive. There is no other way to describe it. When I stand before the group and I see the emotion that is being displayed very clearly by both male and female students, I see that it is a heartfelt emotion because my story is not from an academic point of view, it is from an emotional point of view. I try to touch them in that way. I feel guilty sometimes about whether I am actually scaring people into understanding sexual health and responsibility. However, in an effort to erase my guilt someone once said that I had to realise that health is everyone's number one priority and there is a huge difference between scaring and preparing. I hope that in some way I am able to prepare the groups I meet.
The groups will gather that my approach is different from that of others. I conclude by telling them one final, awkward thing that might change their view of the entire two hour presentation. I now have to tell the committee, and Deputy English already knows this, that I am actually an actor. My name is not David MacDonald and I do not have AIDS. My name is Joe McGrath and I am a professional playwright and actor from Canada. There is always great confusion when I tell my audience this and the students ask me if I am lying. I always put my wedding ring back on at this point to step out of character.
I then immediately jump into the explanation. I tell them that I do not want to make light of what David made them feel or experience. I want to reassure them that I have not gone there as an actor who wants to lie to students about something so serious. I tell them that I did not make the decision lightly. At the beginning David said there was something missing in our approach to our number one priority, namely, the progressive approach. I see this because I am a foreigner looking into this culture.
I tell the students that I have come to their school with a much deeper purpose. That purpose came to me when I was 18 and in my final year of high school in Labrador, which is in north-eastern Canada. My teacher, the late Ray Condon, told my graduating class that he was in the final stage of HIV with AIDS. He passed away four months later. We had no idea he was HIV positive. He was only diagnosed with the virus six months before he passed away.
I have gone into the rough areas of Ireland that we hear so much about. I take pleasure in that because I come from an extremely disadvantaged background. That is why David constantly says it is a progressive, in your face, approach. I decided a long time ago that I was not going to let the misfortunes of my past be an excuse for the failures of my future. I do not want to sound poetic or religious, but I decided to be the person who would stand and speak and not sit and think. No matter how controversial my speaking would be I would stand and speak regardless.
I was so touched by my teacher's story, I wanted to write a play on HIV and AIDS in honour of Mr. Condon. My drama teacher told me that no such play existed. I went home and wrote my first play, "Fear of the Young" over the next three weeks. I called it "Fear of the Young" because I believed then as I do now that HIV, AIDS and all sexually transmitted diseases should be the fear of young people. The play had nine actors and two central characters in an AIDS help group, one went by the name David and the other was called Janet. I sometimes tell a little of Janet's story during my presentation. As luck would have it, the Newfoundland-Labrador Government bought the rights to the play and it has become the highest viewed school show in eastern Canada.
I now live in Ireland. On 16 March I will have been here seven years. I am married to a girl from Dublin and I live in Navan. I have a son and another child due in April and I had to come up with a way of practising not necessarily what I studied but what I am passionate about, that is, social issues affecting young people, starting with HIV and AIDS. Without letting the current situation or the views of the experts hold me back from what I felt was needed, I decided to adapt the bigger play, "Fear of the Young" into a one man show with the major twist that the students would be given what they felt was a real experience.
I know some of the people in this room are wondering if that is morally correct. I wonder about that every day and I feel guilty about the approach I am taking but I feel more guilt about the fact that it will be too late to talk about this problem once the damage is done. I explain to the students that I am a foreigner looking into this culture. Unfortunately, people are drinking at a younger age. They go to parties, participate in certain activities and perhaps have too much to drink. The next morning they wake up and say, "I can't believe I did that but I was drunk and that is my excuse". I do not have a comment on under-age drinking as such but using alcohol as an excuse the morning after will not erase the damage done to that person's health the night before.
That is my moralistic approach to what I do. I am aware not everyone agrees with what I am doing but I have visited 120 secondary schools and approximately 15 Youthreach centres. I have performed for more than 9,000 secondary students and the majority of people agree with this approach, even though it is a foreign approach as such. It is a unique idea. I am like any other professional working actor. I have to have the attitude to survive in this business and I hope the students walk away understanding that. Perhaps members of the committee will understand that it is drastic and progressive but as an actor I ask the students to ask themselves one question: would I have got the same experience if I had known he was an actor? The answer is an overwhelming "No". I walk into every school believing that this approach is progressive, unique and perhaps controversial at times but it addresses a need.
I wanted to be here today to share with the committee what I am trying to do on my own. I am not looking for anything as such but I wanted someone with an Irish voice to hear and experience what I am trying to do on my own as a foreigner here. I thank the committee for the opportunity. As I say to my students, I hope members will gain an understanding of the benefit of what I am trying to do regarding sexual health.
That was an impressive performance and I can understand students being shocked by it. There is not enough discussion about this issue and I hope by having Mr. McGrath before the committee we can advance that. I will now invite members to speak and perhaps Mr. McGrath will deal with any of the points they raise.
It was interesting to hear what Mr. McGrath had to say. I spoke to some of the pupils and teachers in whose schools Mr. McGrath made his presentation and got a very good response. This is a way of approaching the issue that we should examine.
What does Mr. McGrath believe the current programmes in schools are missing in terms of the message getting across to students?
Mr. Joe McGrath
What we are missing in regard to sexual health promotion?
In terms of where we are failing. I have done comparisons in terms of what Mr. McGrath is doing and what is being done by other people and there is a better reaction to what Mr. McGrath is doing. People tell me the message is getting through to students. I want to make some brief comments on which Mr. McGrath can give me some feedback later. What does he believe is the most important message to get across to people and the best way to get it across? What reaction is he getting from the authorities? I am aware he is doing this in the United Kingdom as well as in Ireland.
Mr. McGrath
Yes. I was in south Bromsgrove, in Birmingham. I presented this to a few teachers and members of the committee. We are trying to work out logistics because the show is an hour and 20 minutes long and they can only give me half an hour. That is an ongoing issue we are trying to resolve.
What age group is Mr. McGrath aiming at and what does he believe is the age group we should try to reach? Feedback from boards of management and teachers is important. What kind of feedback is Mr. McGrath getting? Are the authorities aware of what he intends to do before he does it in the school? What is the feedback in that regard? What does he believe is the main obstacle here to getting the message across to young people? When he concludes his presentation, what questions are asked of Mr. McGrath? How responsible are the students? I am amazed by some of the questions I am asked by students in schools on some issues, and groups who visit the Dáil. They are as tuned in as many of us on various issues. Does Mr. McGrath believe they are responsible? Mr. McGrath said it is better to be smart than cool. That is a clear message and one we must get out to young people.
Regardless of whether we are talking about drugs, sexual health or bad driving our young people do not believe anything can happen to them. We have a responsibility to ensure that young people are aware that good and bad things can happen to them. That is where education is vital to convince them that if they are in a bad situation it can get better but the reverse is true also. If things are going well that can change, and it is important to get that message through to them. We are failing to do that and I would encourage anything that can help in that regard.
In terms of how Mr. McGrath relates to students in the future, is his cover blown now because this committee is meeting in public session and people will know he is not David?
I had written down two questions before Mr. McGrath told us he was an actor but then changed one of them. In some respects that indicates that what he is doing is effective but does he believe it would be more effective if a person with AIDS visited the schools? There are cases of recovering alcoholics or drug addicts visiting schools and telling their stories. That direct, progressive approach gets very positive results because young people can see the results of activities they may be involved in whereas generally they do not look that far ahead if they are drinking too much, taking drugs or having unprotected sex. I respect the fact that Mr. McGrath can only do what he can do.
There are a number of organisations in Ireland and elsewhere working on HIV/AIDS prevention and support. I am involved with one in Limerick. Such organisations visit schools also. Does Mr. McGrath have a relationship with those organisations such as the Dublin AIDS Alliance, although I am not sure from which part of the country Mr. McGrath operates? What is his opinion of the work those organisations do in schools?
My final question is a general one. This committee has met various people who are invited into schools for a variety of purposes. At the outset Mr. McGrath said he was not paid to do that — I am not sure if that is the case now that I know he is an actor — but does he believe we should have a fund to allow schools invite people like him to talk to students? Schools in disadvantaged areas already find it difficult to pay their bills and probably could not afford to bring in people from other organisations. Obviously, organisations cannot operate without funding; they have expenses and costs. Does Mr. McGrath believe a fund should be set up to allow this direct confrontation with students to take place, that they are not just exposed to their class teachers but meet people like him who can contribute to their educational experience?
When Mr. McGrath began to speak I thought about my first experience of people who had AIDS. I remember attending funerals of people buried in sealed bags in this city at the time of the heroin epidemic. I saw the effect not being able to see their loved ones had on those families. HIV/AIDS is called a virus in this city; I do not know what it is called in other areas. Unfortunately, young people in many communities are aware of the impact of this virus. The big preponderance of people with AIDS/HIV in this city is due to people injecting themselves with drugs and sharing needles. That is how the incidence of the condition reached such a high level and then it spread to the gay and heterosexual communities.
Deputy O'Sullivan took the Chair.
Mr. McGrath spoke about the experience of the consequence of having unprotected sex. I was once stuck with a needle by a man who had full blown AIDS and who subsequently died from the condition. I had to have a blood test for AIDS and I am aware of how that affects not only the victim but his or her partner, family and the broader community.
Unfortunately the incidence of people with AIDS illustrates what is happening in some communities. It would be a positive move to deal with the issue of AIDS in schools. In communities where many deaths have occurred from AIDS and related illnesses young people will have unprotected sex even though there is a higher chance of them contracting AIDS or HIV. A person who starts to take drugs never thinks he or she will become an addict and similarly many young people in such communities do not think they will contract the virus, even though they probably know of people in their community who have it. They believe it will not happen to them. We try to get across the big message is that respect.
I found the shock factor in Mr. McGrath's presentation to be not what he revealed happened but his announcement that he is an actor. A leading practitioner in the North several years ago spoke in terms of warning young people in the North not to sleep with people from Dublin because of the high incidence of AIDS, which was linked to the drugs scene here. I know many people who are HIV positive and have AIDS. If one visits any of the community based drug addiction centres around Dublin, one will meet those people. AIDS is an horrific illness. I noted what Mr. McGrath said about the benefit of young people hearing the stories of people who have the virus. It is helpful for young people to hear of the experience of a person who was a drug addict. Similarly it is helpful for young people at risk of becoming involved in criminal activity to talk to a person who has been through the prison system and to hear of his experience.
I am involved with Teenline which counsels young people who are suicidal. If a parent or young person, or their child or loved one, who has considered or attempted suicide, talks about his or her experience to young people in schools, that can have a hugely positive effect. One of the parents involved in Teenline told me that young people have approached him following talks and said that they had seriously thought about committing suicide and the discussion had made them change their minds.
I am surprised at the number of schools that have allowed Mr. McGrath to talk to the students. A crazy attitude is taken by some school boards of management, school management and parents that if sex education is introduced, suddenly the students will become sexually active. Likewise, there is an attitude that if a person talks to students about the issue of suicide the students will begin to contemplate suicide. That is a major barrier that needs to be broken down. Such talks are a novel way of approaching this issue and this is work that needs to be done.
Traditionally in Ireland sex education has been the most difficult subject to deal with in schools. Very few teachers or staff members have had the courage to deviate from the core concept of teaching religion given that sex education is associated with religion. The Department of Education and Science has recognised religion as an examination subject and one would imagine that it might open the door for a wider subject content than it currently has. There is a reluctance to give young people information on real life situations that are staring them in the face. That option is not taken.
Mr. McGrath said the programme and discussion he presents is progressive. Has he received feedback on it or is it possible to monitor the effectiveness of his presentation given that he gives a talk to a school today and is gone tomorrow? Has he had positive contact or communication following his talks? Has he been asked to return to talk on this area?
When one reflects on the crowded curriculum in the school structure, it is only with the benevolence of a subject teacher that time could be found within the curriculum for the presentation Mr. McGrath has given. If his programme was more structured and was given recognition, it would be far more beneficial on the broader scale rather than he being invited as a guest to present it. The effect of his presenting himself initially as David and the reality subsequently being announced can be beneficial and positive in making students realise there are people who are genuinely suffering from this predicament.
Mr. McGrath said his presentation shocks students and the teacher or supervisor in the class. In terms of personal experiences and the specific details to which he referred, in what way does his presentation shock them? As an actor he can portray that experience but how does that affect him imparting the real story behind his delivery? If the students discover he is an actor towards the end of his presentation, does doubt creep in at that stage?
A variety of questions have been put to Mr. McGrath and I invite him to respond to them.
Mr. McGrath
I will deal first with Deputy English's questions. The age group on which I focus are those aged 14 and older. I really focus on the transition year programme and the SPHE programme students. I have performed for students of 12 years of age although I felt much of the show went over their heads. However, some teachers felt it appropriate that 12 year old children should sit in on this presentation.
Deputy English received first-hand reaction from some of the students of Kells Youthreach in Meath. They indicated that what is missing is someone who wants to stand in front of them and be open and frank about absolutely everything. I stand there as David and am open and frank about everything, including condom use and intravenous drug use. I tell them everything not, as I constantly repeat, in written form. I opt for an emotional point of view as opposed to an academic one, which they are so used to and which is forced upon them in the educational system, which is understandable.
I do this completely on my own. I am not part of an organisation and I do not work for anyone. I decided this was an approach I wanted to take. In short, what I believe is missing from sexual health promotion is honesty. We have to avoid tiptoeing around these issues for fear someone may be a bit embarrassed. Put in more simple terms, what is missing is openness and honesty. I speak about openness and honesty even though for one hour and 20 minutes I stand there and lie to them about who I am, but there is a reason for that.
I said I was not funded by anybody. I have to make a living so I charge the schools. From what I am told, they have a fund set aside for SPHE in transition year. I go into many schools that collect money at the door. My hope is that I can get some funding and eliminate that problem for schools which cannot afford to have this. There is a set price but I always say the price will not get in the way of the show. The play is the issue and I firmly believe it is more important than the price. I am torn but I must make a living. If funding was made available, it would make it easier for people like me to have the opportunity to go into schools in disadvantaged areas and to try to make a real difference.
As I said, I will stand and speak and not sit and think. If I create debate by doing so, that is fantastic because debate is better than silence. I firmly believe it is better for someone who is HIV positive or living with HIV or AIDS to go into a school. I have been in that position. In 1992 I listened to my teacher in Labrador tell his story. He was in the final stage and was four months from passing away. I remember the effect that had on me and I can only imagine the sort of lasting effect that would have on the students, that is, if someone who was actually suffering from this or living with HIV or AIDS stood in front of them and told his or her story.
Perhaps I am wrong in my thinking. Since I have taken this approach as an actor with a passion for wanting young people to learn, it does not restrict me in terms of where I can go with this. In a sense, I am given a theatrical licence to take it in many different directions. It overlaps into many different issues of life and the struggles of life.
It is not just one person's story. One can bring in other people's stories as well.
Mr. McGrath
In regard to intravenous drug use, I talk about a girl named Janet who just found out she is HIV positive. She contracted HIV from her boyfriend; her only ever sexual partner. They always had unprotected sex because he said he never had unprotected sex with anyone else and that as long as she was on the pill, things were fine. It turns out he was an intravenous drug user and he contracted HIV in that way. It shows the different ways and brings in the different realities. I say to students that even though sexual intercourse is the number one way to transmit the virus, like life, harm comes to us in many different ways. We take minor and major risks every day and we may think that because we take certain precautions no harm will come to us. Like life, the HIV virus comes to us in many decorated forms. I guess I am able to add the dramatic sense.
In regard to working with other committees, I am told by students that this is one thing they do not want. I received a telephone call from a committee saying it honestly felt I was undermining what it was trying to do. My simple question was, what information do students leave with? She said that there is literature, hand-outs and leaflets and that sometimes overhead projectors are used. If I gave hand-outs and leaflets, students would walk out the door and throw them in the bin because that does not register with them. Many of the committees come from an academic approach. I come entirely from an emotional and creative approach.
In regard to working with the committee, I am more than willing to meet anyone and discuss anything but that would restrict me in terms of what I am doing. I am constantly told there is too much information and that it is so technical. I tell students — this will perhaps shock them more than anything I have said — that it is difficult to contract HIV if, and that is a big "if", one is smart and safe. I say that HIV, AIDS and all sexually transmitted diseases are so technical and there is so much medical jargon thrown in. I firmly believe that if we get back to basics, forget about those technicalities and all that medical jargon and look at two simple factors, if one is smart and safe, the chances are things will be fine. That is my whole approach which restricts me somewhat because I am going in a completely different direction. As an artist, I am able to do that by working outside a committee. I certainly do not think my way is 100% correct but I have been told it is not wrong.
Deputy Crowe said he knows many people who are HIV positive or are living with AIDS. I refer to certain areas in Dublin. I was in such an area last week. I sat in the staff room for about 40 minutes with the teachers before the show and they told me all about the heroin abuse. Many of the children come from families where a brother or sister is HIV positive. That made me somewhat nervous because I was an individual and not part of an organisation. I have a unique idea and approach and I thought about how these people would feel once I revealed the secret that I was an actor. I guess I can only tell the committee what their teacher told me afterwards. She told me she was amazed that the students were so quiet and that they listened. It was a group of 12 years of age upwards. As the teacher said, I was a stranger with a strange accent, which is all over the place, standing there on my own and talking about something so serious which has affected these people.
The comments have been overwhelming. One girl, not in this particular school, told me that her uncle was just diagnosed as being HIV positive and she was really angry at the doctors because they could not allow her or them understand why this happened. She simply thanked me for coming in and breaking down all those technicalities into simpler terms. Therefore, I can only think that a majority of people agree that what I am doing is good.
On the contention that the shock value stands out more than the information, I suppose the difference between giving this presentation here today and standing in a school is that once I reveal the truth, I then speak of my deeper passion and understanding of what is needed and from where I come. In particular, in a disadvantaged area, I speak of where I come from. I am open and honest with them. I am frank. If they ask me a question about my childhood, I tell them I am the youngest of eight children and my father left my mother with eight children when I was aged three. I do not mind saying that because then my presentation has gone beyond HIV and AIDS to what we can get through.
There are some who walk away and say that I lied to them and it did not matter, but I say to them that everything I said about HIV and AIDS is true. Every moralistic point of view that David had was from me and one cannot walk away forgetting that. One must walk away understanding that this is a new approach.
I guess if it drums up anger, if people want to vent that and say this is wrong or they feel betrayed, as an artist I accept and welcome those mixed emotions because debate is stronger than silence. If people's fears or angers are sparked by my approach, that is great because at least they will be speaking about it and at the end the information will come out and will be remembered.
I visited a school in Tipperary. Owing to the different emotional aspects of my show, afterwards a student e-mailed me stating that she was thinking honestly about suicide before the show and she realised through David's story, even through he was not real, that she was no longer thinking about suicide but she still was into self-harm. It is a beautiful aspect that the students would take that time to e-mail me. Obviously, I immediately telephoned the school and spoke to the guidance counsellor, who was aware of the student. It is nice that students feel the need to e-mail.
On Senator Burke's questions and comments, I go to many schools where some educators are reluctant to talk openly about this subject — sexual health, condoms, etc. They assume that if I am there to speak about HIV and AIDS, I am there to speak of condoms only when that is not my approach.
The short answer to that question may be found from my experience in a school in Monaghan where a teacher approached me afterwards and said I had no right to be standing in the school speaking about this in their school. That is okay. Everyone has a different opinion and that is fine. I told the teacher who booked the show what was said to me and she said that sometimes we are blind to the reality of what is happening and that no matter what we believe, for many people there is a reality they do not want to see. She stated that sitting in the front row there was a 15 year old girl who had had a baby last year, her friend sitting next to her was 16 and pregnant, and that she spoke of teenage pregnancy and such matters as well. She asked how this could be happening in front of us when there were people saying that I should not be in the school speaking about this.
I am stubborn in the sense that no one will stop me from doing this and I have been afforded many opportunities because I decided to stand and speak. I have been asked by a psychologist to work with her on a show on anger management for young people and older people. When my wife went to register my son in school for 2010, the principal found out what I did and she now wants to work with me on the issue of sexual abuse for young people in primary school. That is the progressive thinking I like.
On responses from students, I have a website up and running and I encourage each and every student to e-mail me their honest opinions. I state there that if a student wishes, he or she may vent or say nice things but, more importantly, that if the student feels angry and cannot tell me honestly what he or she felt about the show, the student must remember that I do not need to know his or her name and I do not know what he or she looks like and, therefore, the negativity will never come back on him or her, but I need to know what he or she honestly thinks.
I have information packs, including e-mails from students and the leaflet I issue, for each of the members on the schools I have visited. I have more than 700 at home from students who have taken the time to e-mail me their honest opinions. I do not know whether the committee would allow me to read the most recent e-mail I received. I was in Johnstown in Kilkenny yesterday. This will sum up everything — all the questions that were asked today and my overall perspective on what I am trying to do. The e-mail thanks me for making them listen without brute force and thanks David for leading by example rather than by rules. It states that the writer felt slightly alone after experiencing this event owing to not wanting to ruin it for others because everyone should see this, and supposed that is bad news for Joe. The writer shared some of David's feelings because he appealed to us in such a different way and because he was the only one who could be so open with the students. It states that this is a work of genius, that its writer has never learnt so much in such a short space of time and asks to know when they can see more.
I receive many e-mails every day. Once the presentation is finished, I honestly feel guilty because during the presentation I get such a high from all this emotion from the students. Once I reveal the truth and I get into my car to drive home, it is so difficult because each week is a struggle. I have been in 120 schools since January 2005. That is not a large number of schools. There are approximately 662 schools to perform in and then bring other social issues from my perspective. It is a low feeling. I drive home wondering whether the students are getting it and then I get home and look at my e-mail. I get these emails stating that Ireland needs someone like me to make us more experienced on subjects like this, and that all the students and the teachers learnt something, not only about HIV and AIDS but about themselves and life today.
I cannot say any more than what is said to me directly by the students. I know my approach is different. It is an approach which has not been introduced to this system, but I am willing and somewhat stubborn in the sense that I will follow through with this. I hope that someone with an Irish voice can stand up and speak for me, and perhaps get the majority of schools interested in what I am trying to do.
I thank the committee for having me here today. I thank Deputy English for initiating this. As I say to the students, I hope the committee members walk away with the bigger picture and the greater understanding.
On behalf of the committee, I thank Joe McGrath. He certainly engaged all of us, as he appears to have engaged many young people in Ireland.
The joint committee adjourned at 12.40 p.m. until 11.30 a.m. on Thursday, 8 February 2007.