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JOINT COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION AND SCIENCE debate -
Thursday, 3 Jul 2008

National Skills Strategy: Discussion with Minister of State.

I welcome the Minister of State with responsibility for lifelong learning, Deputy Haughey, and his officials. The Minister of State will provide a briefing on the role of the recently established interdepartmental committee in respect of the implementation of the national skills strategy.

I remind everyone that members of the committee have absolute privilege but that the same privilege does not apply to witnesses. I am sure the Minister of State's officials are well aware of that fact. Members are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against any person outside the Houses or an official, either by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable.

I thank the Chairman for the opportunity to address the committee on the national skills strategy and the implementation thereof. I am grateful to the committee for taking an interest in this matter and for allowing me to outline the progress made in respect of it.

The timing of my address is very appropriate. Recent economic reports have highlighted the extent of the challenges the country faces. There is no doubt that there are significant challenges. However, these can be met. We can safeguard our future economic and social development if we make the correct decisions across a range of vital areas.

The skills and competencies of members of the labour force is one such area. Members will all agree that one of the cornerstones of Ireland's remarkable economic transformation has been its highly skilled and well educated workforce. We have long been immensely proud of our people's ability to compete with the most educated in the world, rightly so. For more than 40 years, successive Governments, irrespective of the economic climate, consistently invested resources in ensuring Ireland had a world-class education and training system. The rationale behind this was simple. Investment in education and training was an investment in our people. By producing highly educated and skilled individuals, we ensured that the country had a labour force with the ability to not only meet the needs of enterprises but, more importantly, to allow Ireland to quickly respond to emerging opportunities.

The Government remains committed to the improvement of our education and training system. This commitment is reflected in the national development plan and the current social partnership agreement, Towards 2016. The Government recognises that for Ireland to sustain its economic and social development, it is imperative that we ensure that we develop and maintain competitive advantage over our competitors in the area of skills. It was this recognition that led to the publication of the national skills strategy. The expert group on future skills needs was asked to undertake a forecasting analysis and to map Ireland's labour market and skills needs to the year 2020. This report, Tomorrow's Skills — Towards a National Skills Strategy, was launched early in 2007.

The national skills strategy details an ambitious vision for the skills profile in Ireland in 2020. It sets out clear, long-term objectives regarding what Ireland's education and training system needs to deliver if we are to develop competitive advantage in the area of skills, education and training. The strategy shows that if Ireland is to progress ahead of its competitors, we must examine the existing education and training system and improve our performance in several key areas.

The national skills strategy shows that more than 70% of the current workforce — almost 1.5 million people — will still be in employment in 2020. For our continued economic success, it is, therefore, essential, that these people achieve their potential and that they be given assistance to do so.

The national skills strategy also shows that there will be a need to upskill an additional 500,000 people by at least one level on the national framework of qualifications by 2020. According to the strategy, approximately 330,000 of these individuals will need to be upskilled to between levels 3 and 5. This is equivalent to between junior certificate and leaving certificate levels. We must ensure that the output from our education system reaches its potential. This will involve increasing to 90% the focus on improving participation rates in upper secondary level and ensuring the progression rate to third level increases to 72%.

The strategy has helped us to target specific skills and sectors that will become increasingly important in the next few years. It has allowed us to identify and to begin addressing specific gaps in our skills base and it will help us to further develop an education and training system that will allow us to adapt quickly and respond to the changing global business environment. In short, the strategy will facilitate the development of Ireland's competitive advantage in terms of world-class skills, education and training. The development of competitive advantage in this area will go a considerable way in safeguarding Ireland's future economic and social development. The Government's future policy and investment decisions in the area of education and training will be informed by the objectives and vision contained in the strategy. It is, therefore, a key policy document and its implementation is a priority for the Government.

As Minister of State with responsibility for lifelong learning at the Departments of Education and Science and Enterprise, Trade and Employment, I have responsibility for overseeing the effective co-ordination of education and training programmes delivered by the two Departments. In this capacity, I am the chair of the interdepartmental committee on the implementation of the national skills strategy. This committee, which is comprised of senior officials from the Departments of Education and Science, Enterprise Trade and Employment and Finance, has responsibility for drafting and implementing a plan to realise the targets and objectives contained in the strategy.

The implementation plan will examine the existing provision of education and training and determine the key areas and initiatives that will require additional focus in order to achieve the objectives of the strategy. The interdepartmental committee has met on two occasions to date. Its first meeting took place at the end of April. During this meeting the committee agreed its terms of reference, the outline of the implementation plan and agreed to establish a senior officials group to draft appropriate documents for the committee's consideration. Since the first meeting in April, the group has commenced work on drafting elements of the implementation plan and these were considered in detail at the committee's most recent meeting, which took place on Tuesday, 24 June. Work will continue on the development of the plan in the coming months and it is expected it will be published in early 2009.

In the interim, the Departments of Education and Science and Enterprise, Trade and Employment are continuing to examine the existing provision of education and training programmes to ascertain how they can deliver the objectives contained in the national skills strategy. For instance, the Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment last week launched an innovative initiative relating to a strategic alliance between the ICTU and FÁS in delivering a training programme aimed at upskilling the low skilled. This programme allows for the training of trades union representatives in identifying the education, training and personal development needs of members and work colleagues.

Both the Government and I are fully committed to the implementation of the national skills strategy. However, given the broad nature of the strategy and the multitude of stakeholders involved in this area, its successful implementation will be dependent on employers, trade unions and especially individuals committing themselves to upskilling and actively participating in lifelong learning. Lifelong learning will be crucial in enabling all our learners to engage in the pursuit of continuing education and training on an ongoing basis. Education and training should be seen not only as the preserve of the younger generations but as an essential tool in the development of people both within and outside the workforce, at whatever age. This is the only way we will enhance and contribute to the development of a knowledge-based economy and succeed in delivering the national skills strategy.

I am determined and confident the interdepartmental committee will work effectively to realise the objectives of the strategy. I am confident that with the active participation and support of the social partners we will be successful in achieving our aims and in upskilling Ireland's workforce. I thank the Chairman and I am happy to answer questions from members.

I thank the Minister of State for his brief but detailed presentation.

I welcome the Minister of State and his officials to the meeting. He said the timing of the address is appropriate, all the challenges are surmountable and, irrespective of the economic climate in the past 40 years, this programme will be delivered. I take it there will not be cutbacks in the national skills strategy. Despite all the targets set by Government, it withdrew funding from the Integrated Ireland Language and Training Centre and 40 jobs were lost and, at the same time, it expects immigrants to be integrated into the workforce. If they cannot be provided with competency in the English language, how on God's earth can the strategy be implemented? I hope the Minister of State will give a truthful response. I do not know when his presentation was drafted or whether it was intended to be delivered some time ago but it has been presented in the aftermath of job losses, which contradicts the objective he is trying to achieve.

I refer to lifelong learning. On 20 February, I tabled a question to the then Minister for Education and Science regarding part-time fees. She outlined commitments in Towards 2016 and said targeted funds were put in place to alleviate the fees for part-time and third level courses for those at work who have not previously benefited from third level education. She further stated the Higher Education Authority had developed proposals for a modular accreditation programme that allows flexibility in the manner in which people are able to undertake these courses and such individuals would receive a substantial fee subsidy as part of that initiative. What is the nature of the modular accreditation programme? How substantial will be the fee subsidy?

I thank the Minister of State for his presentation. I understand the strategy will be implemented and an implementation plan is being considered by his officials, which he expects to receive early in 2009. The flesh is about to be put on the bones regarding the detail of implementation. I refer to the provision of paid educational leave for the workforce. In other words, if the initiative involving the ICTU and FÁS identifies sets of skills that could enhance the employability and competitiveness of workers, will they be given time off to take the courses? Paid educational leave is a factor in many other European countries in addition to recreational leave.

Immigrants comprise 10% of the workforce, not all of whom will return home. They need additional skills and assistance with the English language. Will the implementation plan contain proposals to provide English language skills in addition to paid educational leave or will they be provided as part of the plan?

I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Haughey. On skills needs, we require a number of strata because people currently in employment need to be upskilled and we also need to identify the needs of people of different ages for the future. I agree that when people abroad wonder how Ireland achieved such a successful economy, investment in education is seen as important. We still need significant investment in technology. We supplied schools with computers, but did we return and update the software afterwards?

I have completed a report for the committee on the teaching of history in areas of recent conflict. One of the questions posed in this regard was whether to teach facts so that people can regurgitate them and prove they have a brain that can remember them or to teach skills to help people develop a critical mind so that they can analyse problems in their daily lives, deal with them in a critical and objective manner and deal with people around them in similar fashion. Does the work of the interdepartmental committee on national skills go to the core of the curriculum to analyse what we are trying to achieve through education? Are we trying to pump people with information so that on exam day they can spew it out or are we developing skills and critical and analytical minds?

Where does education begin? Often, we do not consider the various starting points. It is all right to say we will develop maths and science skills at 14 years of age, but everyone knows that most of what a child learns is founded on what they learn from the age of nought to six. If children have not been introduced to many concepts by the age of six, their ability to develop the required skills at a later date is impaired. Have we any information on this area? We should think about a 20 or 30-year strategy rather than a five-year strategy and begin with what we are doing for pre-school children — I will throw in my old chestnut here, pre-school music and music in schools for rhythm and development, language development and teamwork skills.

The delegation mentioned increasing the participation of secondary and third level students. Sometimes the students falling behind on skills are those who are least likely to stay in school. They are vulnerable and drop out early. Some of them may be special needs people who have not had their needs identified early. Last night on the adjournment I urged — I do the same at this committee — that the Departments of Health and Children and Education and Science work together in a more co-ordinated fashion to deliver cross-overs to maximise the abilities, not just of special needs pupils, but of people in lower attainment brackets. Our skills needs in the future must be multilayered and everybody should be able to achieve the optimum of his or her particular layer.

I wish the interdepartmental group well with its work on its daunting task, which is something that must be done. The work will have implications for not just ten years but up to 50 years.

I welcome the Minister of State and I am delighted to hear of his commitment to the national skills strategy. With 600,000 people in the country with junior certificate level education or lower, we have a massive problem on our hands. I am concerned with whether the Minister of State is sincere on this having seen, despite all my lobbying, that he did not fund the young mothers in education project in Galway for 60 young mothers.

That has not been decided yet.

They have been waiting a long time and the project has closed down. People are now working on a voluntary basis to keep it open. I use that service and need to know the Minister is sincere about his commitment to the skills strategy. Following on the point made by Deputy Quinn, will the Minister of State outline the plan for implementation, the funding commitments he expects to get from the Government and the deadline for implementation?

I addressed a conference in Galway two weeks ago on research and practice in adult literacy. I assure the Minister of State there is no lack of commitment by adult learners or VECs in the system towards lifelong learning. However, I wonder why we have such high rates of adult illiteracy given our supposedly good education system. The Minister has the chance now to commit on this. Funding of €30 million is being provided now for adult learners, €10 million of which is for ESOL, English for speakers of other languages. The request coming from VECs is that these funds would be decoupled and separate budget streams would be provided for each. What does the Minister of State intend to do in that regard?

I know workers in FÁS who are trying to work with the workers about whom the Minister of State spoke when talking about the huge challenge to bring people with only low level qualifications back to education. FÁS is having difficulty with employers in that regard because they do not want to release these workers. We must face the issues and decide what incentives will be provided for employers. I understand that it is not easy for employers to release workers, but if we are to meet the needs of the knowledge society and be competitive, these workers must be upskilled. Has the Minister of State considered introducing tax incentives to encourage employers to release employees for upskilling?

I welcome the Minister of State and his officials and thank him for his brief and concise presentation and for allowing us the opportunity to explore the issues of importance. Representatives from four of the major banks attended the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Finance and the Public Service. In one of the presentations the point was made that a number of positions have been unfilled for some time in the Irish Financial Services Centre because workers do not have the qualifications required. I understand these are high-end jobs and may not be the focus for workers being upskilled. However, I interpret what is being said by the delegation as meaning enabling people to have the skills to fulfil any vacancies that might appear. Will the Minister of State comment on whether this is something that could be brought to the attention of the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment and, perhaps, the Minister for Education and Science before the plan is drawn up in detail?

A question on many people's minds as a result of the downturn in the construction industry is what does the interdepartmental committee have in mind with regard to enabling those involved in construction to retrain and reintegrate into the workforce at some other level?

I welcome the Minister of State and wish him well with his difficult brief. Much of what I wanted to say has been covered, so I will be brief. I have great time for adult education, but we need funding for upskilling. I welcome the fact that employers, trade unions and stakeholders are targeting people for upskilling.

I have one concern. The issue was raised in the Dáil last week of the implementation of a major budget for FÁS and I am concerned that such funding might be used on self-aggrandisement campaigns. Dealing with upskilling should not centre on increasing footfall or on targeting huge numbers. What is required is that the organisations target a particular sector. Unions, employers and those working in the social welfare area can target that sector. What budget will be available for advertising that will be targeted at the people who need upskilling? We need funding that will be targeted at these people rather than at companies that will use the funding for self-aggrandisement and to point out how great they are doing.

Is the Deputy talking about the need to advertise the implementation plan?

Yes. I also look forward to seeing the Minister of State next Tuesday in Castlerea.

I am looking forward to my visit to Castlerea. I will go to the prison.

I hope the Minister of State gets an early release.

I welcome the Minister of State and his officials. I apologise for being late as I was dealing with a matter relating to County Donegal.

I have read the Minister of State's presentation. The national skills strategy is critically important in addressing the challenging needs of the economy. It is one of the most important briefs which the Minister of State holds, considering the current economic position. We live in an evolving job market and every day there are reports of construction firms laying off workers. Unfortunately there is a downturn in that sector, as was evident from yesterday's financial mid-term review.

The Minister of State noted that 70% or almost 1.5 million people in the current workforce will still be in employment by 2020. This is the age group below 55 years of age. Some of those people will not be doing the same work in 2020. The construction sector is currently in transition. In my constituency, the construction, farming and fishing sectors are in transition. I hope this will be addressed in the national skills strategy and that these three areas will be examined. These areas have both employers and self-employed workers.

It will be critical to bring the employers on board and this is what the Minister of State is doing. I ask him to outline whether he believes the input from trade unions, employers and FÁS is positive and progressive at this point. I welcome the fact the national skills strategy will be launched in early 2009. This will give a clearer picture and will help focus the mind and provide a vision for the period up to 2016. Thousands of people have been laid off in the construction sector. We need a flexible and adaptable workforce. There was a reliance on the old manufacturing industries up to 2002 but we have moved away from this. The next challenge will be moving away from reliance on some of the three sectors I have referred to and having a strategy to deal with this.

I thank the Minister of State for his presentation. He referred to the need to ensure the potential output from our education system is realised. This involves increasing focus on improving participation rates in upper secondary level to 90%. I refer to DEIS, delivering equality in education scheme, and the illogical way in which it is rolled out. Belmullet has eight or nine schools, and all but one are in the DEIS scheme. Families receive book grants for those children whose school is in the DEIS scheme. It is a fantastic scheme and the schools have benefited from it but it is very difficult to explain why one school in a town is in the scheme and another is not. I look forward to the Minister of State's comments. Schools have been given incentives to keep children up to leaving certificate and those schools which have been successful in this regard have had the funding withdrawn. It is usual that when money is well spent, more money is provided but in this case, success means the money is taken away.

I thank the Deputies and Senators. This is a broad strategy to which the Government is committed. It is therefore dependent on the trade unions and the other bodies and individuals. How broad is the strategy? Senator Keaveney spoke about children learning skills at an early age. Many households in the country do not have one book in the house, although there may be plenty of DVDs and so forth. Those children start off at a disadvantage when they go to school. They will be the ones to fall behind and will be the early school-leavers. They will be the ones in low-skilled jobs, if they can get a job. This costs the taxpayer money and there is also a societal cost.

I do not wish to be personal but the Minister of State's late father did the State a good service many times and one of his decisions was to give all schoolchildren a free toothbrush. Is there a case for providing a free book to those children whose families are in the social welfare system, as part of the strategy? It may have been done before but it should be considered. There are children who are two and three years' old and do not have a book in their house. This is a simple and cost-effective measure which could be part of the strategy.

I note that in Northern Ireland, one rarely sees a foreign person in a shop, restaurant or business. Local people are doing the jobs and earning a living in jobs which many Irish people would consider to be relatively menial. As we move towards a knowledge-based economy, we need higher skills for those working in the construction industry. We welcomed many foreign workers into Ireland who did the jobs that Irish people were not in a position to do. However, there is a group of unskilled people who would be able to do work which foreign workers are currently doing. In an economic downturn it is important to target the influx of non-Irish workers who are doing the jobs for which Irish workers need to be trained. With a little bit of training and upskilling, many Irish people could do these jobs.

Low levels of literacy and basic numeracy skills are the reasons people can be isolated and not able to do these jobs. There is a strategy in place with the aim of halving the rate of illiteracy by 2015. However, as I have said before on many occasions in this committee, this is literally the time it takes to have a kid. By the time the first half become skilled in literacy, the other half have had children and they will be illiterate. The strategy needs to be speeded up. Is there scope within this strategy to speed up the tackling of illiteracy and numeracy issues among adult learners? This would create a higher level of skills; it is not just about fourth level doctoral education but rather moving people from the very bottom to the next level. Is there scope within the strategy to do this? Does the economic situation provide scope for this strategy? The Minister of State is not in charge of the country's finances but has his Department or has he personally made recommendations to the Minister for Finance that the current levels of funding should be maintained and even if it breaches the 3% borrowing level, investment should be made in tackling the problems of illiteracy and in upskilling? Has the Minister of State recommended funding for the Department of Education and Science in the budget? Despite current pressures, we need to ensure we invest in the future rather than try to maintain current levels of service in education and health. I would be grateful if the Minister of State would answer some of the questions.

Many questions have been asked and we are having a good debate. Several speakers referred to the current economic climate, specifically in the context of funding for the national skills strategy. The commitments are set out in the national development plan and Towards 2016 agreement. The Government is committed to spending approximately €7.7 billion on human capital between 2007 and 2013. We are all aware of the current financial position and maintaining Ireland's economic competitiveness is a top Government priority. If we are to solve the problem of public finances, we must have a strong economy and economic growth, as the Government and social partners recognise.

The national skills strategy will last until 2020 and, given the cyclical nature of economics, we must take a long-term view. It is possible that this year and next the emphasis will be on examining the existing capacity of the system and exploring whether it can be better utilised to deliver improved results. This is only a suggestion as I am not fully au fait with the decisions the Government will take next week. I reiterate, however, that the commitment to the strategy is a Government priority.

On the issue of part-time fees, paragraph 7.9 of Part 6 of the Towards 2016 agreement contains a commitment to establish a targeted fund to alleviate fees in public institutions for part-time courses at third level for those at work who have not previously pursued a third level qualification. In the context of the launch of the current round of pay talks it was agreed that a sum of €10 million would be made available from the national training fund with the aim of putting in place a scheme this year to meet the commitment. In general terms, a key objective of the Department of Education and Science is that the scheme should be targeted at those in employment who have not attained a level 8 award of the national framework of qualifications.

A commitment has been given to develop the scheme in close co-operation with the Irish Congress of Trade Unions. The Department had a bilateral meeting with ICTU on 22 May 2007 to discuss draft proposals for a scheme to be put in place from autumn 2008 and a further bilateral meeting is scheduled for Monday, 7 July 2008. We must await whether progress can be made on this issue with the stakeholders. There is some work to be done in this area.

The issue of immigrants was raised from many angles. The English language needs of legally resident migrant groups are being addressed on a number of fronts. Almost 2,000 English language resource teachers are working in our primary and post-primary schools at an annual cost of approximately €120 million. In 2001-02, the figure was 262 teachers. The arrangements for enhanced provision of English language resource teachers were set out in a circular from the Department which issued to schools in May 2007. The previous restriction of two teachers per school was removed and a two-tier limit on English language classes for students was also lifted where a specific request is made. Members will probably be familiar with this measure. Resource materials, including intercultural guidelines and assessment kits, have been prepared and provided to assist teachers with this work.

The network of vocational education committees provides English language classes for adult migrants. In 2007, approximately 13,000 students were attending these classes at a cost of approximately €10 million. Integrate Ireland Language and Training, IILT, provided English language classes for immigrants with refugee status. In 2007, more than 900 learners attended 12 Integrate Ireland Language and Training centres around Ireland. Taking turnover into account, approximately 450 students are in receipt of direct tuition at any given time.

Integrate Ireland Language and Training approached the Department earlier this year with a proposal to withdraw from direct tuition for adult refugees and a request that this tuition be mainstreamed. IILT envisaged continuing direct tuition for a group of up to 200 programme refugees. I accepted that mainstreaming of service provision was appropriate as it accords with the overall approach to provision of service for migrants, as set out in Migration Nation, a statement on integration strategy and diversity management which was launched recently. In this context, it was decided that all direct tuition provision should be mainstreamed and provided by VECs as it would be less efficient to seek to continue with a small element of provision by IILT.

The funding allocated to IILT will be redirected to provide for the continuation of this service for refugees through VEC networks. The Irish Vocational Education Association has confirmed it is pleased to co-operate and collaborate with the Department in the delivery of English language services through its nationwide network of 33 vocational education committees. The VEC sector has also developed best practice on the teaching of English for speakers of other languages, ESOL, provision. My Department has had discussions with the Irish Vocational Education Association with a view to ensuring a smooth transition to the new basis of delivery. I wanted to explain the position as I am aware of protests which took place on the issue.

A number of speakers mentioned adult literacy, which is a priority for my Department. All policy documents prioritise adult literacy, upskillng the low-skilled and education for those most disadvantaged. The acquisition of adequate literacy skills is necessary for adults to derive benefit from any education or training courses in which they want to engage. In addition to reading and writing, adult literacy stems from such basic education as numeracy, social and personal development, learning to learn and IT skills. In the modern context, adult literacy is as much about an individual's self-esteem and confidence as traditional reading, writing and arithmetic skills, a point recognised by speakers.

In concrete terms, funding for adult literacy has increased from €1 million in 1997 to €30 million in 2007 and the number of places has increased to 44,000. Budget 2008 provided for additional places to adhere to commitments made in Towards 2016.

Many people are concerned about the information we use for statistics on adult literacy. We are commencing participation in an OECD survey in this regard. I hope this will improve the statistics available to us and provide a good general indication of the current position. All the anecdotal evidence suggests the position has improved since the previous survey was undertaken.

On paid educational leave and a number of options raised, paid learning leave, individual learning accounts, brokerage services, tax measures and regional skills advisory councils are being examined simultaneously by the expert group on future skills needs. The group's work will feed into the interdepartmental committee. No decision has been taken on this. One has to examine who pays for it and the experience of other EU member states where, by and large, it has not been taken up. It will be examined by the expert group on future skills needs.

Senator Keaveney raised several philosophical issues. While the strategy deals with education and training, we are very much aware of the value of adult and further education for personal development and not just skills. The national skills strategy aims to improve the generic skills of individuals. The Senator can be reassured it is dealing with the social as well as economic development of the individual.

Preschool has not been examined in the context of the implementation plan or the national skills strategy because it goes to 2020. Those in preschool now will not be in the workforce by then.

With respect, some could be in the workforce if they fall through the cracks in the system.

The deadline of 2020 is too far out when it comes to such critical skills.

I will allow questions later.

Members will be interested to know I have taken over the educational disadvantage section of the Department. Deputy Brian Hayes claimed in the Dáil I would now have a two and a half day week having lost youth affairs. The Minister of State, Deputy Barry Andrews, is in charge of youth affairs. I have taken on responsibility for the DEIS programme. There are several aspects to this such as the school completion programme, the home-school-community liaison programme and the National Education Welfare Board. Great progress is being made in these programmes. The purpose of the DEIS programme is to concentrate resources on educational disadvantage and to have objective criteria for selecting schools rather than ad hoc criteria or political interference. I do not know what the position of the programme is in County Mayo but it is designed to target resources.

The Disability Act sets out policy in special educational needs cases. Recommendations will be issued presently by the Department on allocations for the young mothers in education project in Galway. Youth affairs are within the remit of the Minister of State at the Department of Health and Children, Deputy Barry Andrews. I am not sure if his delegation order has yet been approved by the Government.

Would the Minister of State, Deputy Haughey, have recommended them for approval?

No decision was taken as recommendations had not come from the officials in my Department. Until the delegation order for the Minister of State, Deputy Barry Andrews, is signed, he cannot make a decision on these programmes.

Senator Fidelma Healy Eames referred to funding being provided for adult learners, €10 million of which is for ESOL, English for speakers of other languages. On the request from VECs that these funds be decoupled and separate budget streams be provided for each, the Department's view is not to separate them. The literacy schemes should continue as they are. The Minister of State, Deputy Conor Lenihan, is in charge of integration. Consultants are examining the best way to provide ESOL lessons. The upskilling programme for construction workers will be endorsed and supported by all stakeholders.

Is the Minister of State giving a guarantee that adult literacy programmes for immigrants will be integrated into the mainstream VEC system? Considering problems with accommodation and numbers, will a mainstreaming programme be in place by September?

I am sick that yet another report on adult literacy will be commissioned. The Department is not listening. In 1996, we learned of our huge adult illiteracy rates. In 2005 Galway County Council commissioned a social inclusion report which discovered that of the 29,000 adult literacy learners in the county, only 5% had achieved any success. Every VEC can furnish information on adult literacy. I do not want any more delaying tactics. Valuable time is being wasted. Last year, Galway VEC received only €400,000 for adult literacy programmes when it needed €1 million to meet actual needs. Although I come from a research background and encourage surveys, the needs in adult literacy are known. The Minister of State must address these needs.

I can give the Minister of State a specific example of the problems with the DEIS programme which highlights problems encountered across the board. Belmullet has a vocational and a secondary school but only one is in the DEIS programme. I know social welfare benefits such as medical cards are used in determining a school's status. However, it is unfair that one school must compete for resources with another in such a small area. I am not seeking its withdrawal but both schools should receive it. I cannot see the logic behind the designations for the scheme.

The national skills strategy report examined various sectors. It is expected that the sectors which will experience the greatest growth up to 2020 are financial and business services and other market services. The sectors expected to decline are agriculture and manufacturing. I believe we all know that. I have a great deal of information here on construction workers, what FÁS is doing, the downturn in the construction industry, etc. but I do not think the committee has time to go into it.

If the Minister of State has a report he wants to put before the committee, we should be grateful.

I can send the committee some information on that. Discussions on this are taking place as a matter of urgency with the Irish Vocational Education Association on its role in dealing with immigrants.

Does the Minister of State believe it can be done, bearing in mind the existence——

That is the objective. I admire Senator Healy Eames's commitment to adult literacy. Literacy is our top priority. Much has been done and I do not believe there are any delaying tactics. Consultants have been appointed to see how best English language services may be provided for immigrants, but much has been done to improve literacy in general. I should like to have details of the particular school which did not meet the criteria for DEIS.

I thank the Minister of State for coming before the committee today. I hope he will be able to provide the further information for the committee on the construction sector and the areas of growth or slowdown. The Minister of State might allude to the DEIS criteria in terms of what Deputy O'Mahony said.

The whole purpose of DEIS is to target resources to those most in need and there are objective criteria for selecting schools under the scheme. Previously the criteria for selecting schools deemed disadvantaged were not very clear. Those criteria are available and we are moving slowly but surely to the implementation of DEIS. I have just signed off a document on the home-school-community liaison programme, which will reorganise home-school-community liaison officers in line with DEIS. More details will be made available in due course.

The Minister of State might particularly make a note to forward those details to Deputy O'Mahony, as he might want to come back to him on that. I thank him for engaging with the committee today on this very important strategic issue and for taking on board members' comments and questions.

Sitting suspended at 10.33 a.m. and resumed at 10.35 a.m.
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