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JOINT COMMITTEE ON ENTERPRISE AND SMALL BUSINESS debate -
Wednesday, 11 Feb 2004

Scrutiny of EU Proposals.

COM (2003) 453 is a proposal for a directive of the European Parliament and Council on establishing a framework for the setting up of equal design requirements for energy-using products and amending Council Directive 92/42/EEC. Brief documents have been circulated to Members. I welcome Mr. Gerry Wrynn and Ms Aisling O'Reilly from the Department, as well as the members of IBEC's environmental policy committee, Ms Sinead Hyland from IBEC, Ms Claire Penny from IBM, Ms Ciara Lynch from Intel, Mr. John Hayes from Hewlett Packard and Mr. Donal Buckley from IBEC.

I remind our visiting delegation that, while the comments of members are protected by parliamentary privilege, those of our distinguished visitors are not. Members are also reminded of long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that members should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the House or an official by name in such a way as to make him or her identifiable. I now ask Mr. Wrynn to make his presentation.

Mr. Gerry Wrynn

Thank you. I have already circulated a document to members outlining answers to the queries they raised. This is a somewhat unusual initiative, since most EU legislative initiatives are more specific regarding products. Certain substances have been banned, or waste issues at the end of a product's life have been dealt with, as happened with the electrical (WEEE) directive and the end-of-life vehicles directive. This one is unusual; other EU initiatives which seek to address environmental product issues have dealt mainly in more abstract or aspirational terms. There have been various initiatives from the EU such as the sixth environmental action programme. There is an EU sustainable development strategy. However, those do not get down to the nitty-gritty of the products.

Another unusual feature of this initiative is that it is a joint one from two branches of the European Commission, DG Enterprise and DG Energy. One hopes that that reflects more joined-up administration from the EU. Since this initiative is about both the environmental performance of products and energy saving, it was very appropriate that those two DGs got together to produce a combined proposal.

The underlying premise of this initiative is the assumption that 80% of the environmental impact of products is determined during the product design phase. That means that, no matter what happens after the product has come on to the market, the environmental impact will essentially happen, and it is very difficult to effect changes thereafter. The impact of products on the environment covers quite a range of environmental aspects. There is the aspect of climate change when energy is used and greenhouse gases can be emitted. There is the issue of energy use, and products can vary considerably in the amount of energy that they use to fulfil their task. There is the issue of what natural resources are being used and whether they are being used efficiently and well. There is also the question of how much waste is generated and whether hazardous substances are released, either during the product's life or at its end.

The initiative has three overreaching objectives as enunciated by the EU. It wants the free movement of energy-using products. That is obviously central to how the EU operates, and it is very desirable that there be no artificial barriers in place. If a new regime is introduced throughout the EU, that facilitates the free movement of those goods. They also want to improve the environmental performance of products. Quite a pressing issue in recent years has been the security of energy supply. Last summer there were quite a few energy shortages throughout Europe, involving both power cuts and gas shortages, and any initiative which helps reduce products' energy use will obviously go towards fulfilling that objective.

The type of initiative that has been decided on is a framework directive. That will lay down the selection criteria, and after that the specific product measures will be laid down in implementing measures. That is a much more flexible arrangement than if the directive itself went into the specifics of individual products. We feel it is very appropriate that they have done it this way, since the changes that happen in technology and the way trends change mean that, if measures were prescribed in the directive, it would then be very cumbersome to change because the lead-in time for initiating directives is obviously longer. The framework directive lays down the ground rules, and the specifics come later in more flexible implementing measures.

Discussion of the measure has started in Brussels in a working group. There has been some high-level discussion of the principle, but the specific textual details have not yet been worked out. However, as a result of those discussions, the text has now been revised, and there are quite a few provisions now in the draft directive - some were there already, and others were introduced subsequently - which provide quite a high degree of comfort to those of us worried about the competitiveness aspects of the measure. Products must have a significant volume of sales before they are targeted under the measure. They must also have a significant environmental impact which can be substantially reduced without entailing excessive cost. All those provisions mean that it would be extremely unlikely that measures would be introduced to target products on the fringes.

Other provisions in the latest draft are that a detailed analysis, including an impact assessment, must be carried out in each case. That is a very significant feature. The full implications of a measure must be adequately considered. The impact on SMEs must be taken into account. There must also now be stakeholder consultation. There has always been unease that measures can be introduced in Brussels and in the EU without the people most affected being adequately consulted. However, now stakeholder consultation is stitched into the measure. The functionality of the products shall not be negatively impacted. Perhaps that is self-evident, but it is good that it is in the text, since it would obviously be totally counterproductive if a measure were introduced which changed the functionality of the product so much that it was not able to do the job as well as previously. The affordability and life-cycle cost of the product shall not be negatively impacted, so those measures should not result in a huge or significant increase in the cost of purchase or the cost of the product throughout its life cycle.

To allay fears that the great unknown was coming and that people would have very little notice of which products were being selected, the Commission now has to prepare a three-year working plan listing the priorities and products to be selected. The manufacturers have to supply certain information relating to products, and there was a fear that commercially sensitive information might come into the public domain or be made available to competitors, but there is now a safeguard in the measure on that. Of great interest to business is the fact that account must now be taken of relevant self-regulation and measures taken by industry. Many voluntary measures are undertaken by industry in this area, and targets have been set. Measures are being introduced, and it is absolutely reasonable that account be taken of them, since they have the same ultimate aim.

There are some areas which still concern us and where clarity is needed, of which the most obvious is that it is still not clear which products will be selected and how many of those there will be. Obviously that follows from its being a framework directive, details not being available until later. It means that the measure will be introduced affecting a large or small number of products. It is probably unlikely that it will be a large number of products. However, that cannot be decided at this stage.

What will be the costs for businesses, especially SMEs, in complying with this measure? Will it impose an onerous and costly regime on business and take a lot of time? That is still not clear. My Department has been consulting widely with industry interests and will continue to do so. We will also be involved in the negotiations in Brussels. We want to achieve a workable and balanced solution which will be effective and not impose undue burdens on industry and consumers.

Thank you, Mr. Wrynn. I also welcome Dorothy Maxwell from the Department as I did not welcome her at the start of proceedings.

Who from IBEC will address us? We only have 10 to 12 minutes for the visiting delegations as members of the committee have to be available for the Order of Business in the House at 10.30 a.m.

Mr. Donal Buckley

I will say a few words before I hand over to my colleague, Ms Clare Penny. I will put our contribution in context. On behalf of our delegation I thank the Chairman, Deputy Cassidy, and the committee for giving us the opportunity of putting our views on this proposal.

Briefly, IBEC represents 7,000 businesses, with five full-time staff who deal with environmental issues. We have a number of sectors of which ICT is the biggest and most important and most of the people who are here today are from that sector. It employs approximately 91,000 people in Ireland in 300 overseas companies. Its contribution to GDP is approximately 12%. I am saying this to show that a lot of the products we will be referring to are manufactured in Ireland, so Ireland may be more affected by this proposal than others.

The sector has its own environmental policy committee, of which John Hayes is the chairperson and all the other people in the delegation are part of that. We support the proposal. If one looks at the products produced by the ICT sector the things that have appeared over the last few years have been innovation, eco-efficiency and ultimately a reduction in price. The trend of those products has been a benefit to the consumer and the environment.

We support the proposal, but the mechanisms related to its implementation are of some concern to us. We will present a few of those concerns today in some detail. I will hand over to my colleague, Ms Clare Penny.

Ms Claire Penny

I will outline what the industry defines as the vital issue in respect of this EU policy directive.

As the members of the committee know, the directive will set the trend for a modern product policy, which requires a modern and realistic approach that promotes the environment without damaging competitiveness in the marketplace.

I believe the directive has already been covered. The five vital issues identified by industry are Article 95, which should be used as the sole legal basis for the proposal to enable harmonisation of all national provisions in the member states and to ensure that barriers in inter-community trade are avoided. The second point is that new implementing measures should be avoided. Where there is already self-regulation and voluntary measures in existing legislation that is established and effective new implementing measures should be avoided and this should be adopted, but where implementing measures are deemed necessary there should be prior studies conducted in depth to reduce cost and with industry involvement.

We should reject mandatory third-party certification. Any system that requires third-party certification of new energy-using products should be rejected. If we have to go outside the industry to obtain certification to place products on the market it will delay the process and drive up costs and reduce competitiveness.

All imported products should be subject to EU requirements. All products coming into the EU should be subject to the same requirements as products developed and manufactured in the EU. As the members know, there are a lot of products manufactured in Ireland, so this could have a big impact on the Irish economy.

It is a vital issue that there be guaranteed stakeholder involvement at all stages. This ensures transparency in developing and identifying required implementing measures.

Another issue that has been identified, in annex 5, is where the use of environmental management systems as a control for conformity should include all the accredited EMS schemes, which include EMAS and ISO 14001.

Thank you. I want to ask some questions before we invite the members to contribute. European GDP is at 72% of the US level. How will this proposed directive help to raise the European GDP level? Ireland's priorities for the Spring European Council include advancing the environmental technologies action plan. Is this proposed directive seen as an important part of that plan? How important is the creation of the European panel on environmental technologies to the success of this directive and when is this panel likely to be in place? Who wishes to answer those questions?

Mr. Buckley

I will take the question on GDP.

Going back to the points raised by Ms Penny, it is very important that if we are to close the gap between the EU and US and if we are to be as innovative and competitive an economy as others, it is important that the measures we implement do not damage competitiveness. It is important that measures such as this and other environmental measures are implemented in such a way that we get the benefit from the technologies instead of the down side. What we really need to do is to implement it in a way that does not add cost but stimulates innovation. That is the only way that this can be done. If we incorporate some of the points raised by Ms Penny and that have been driven by this committee, we will get the benefit of that.

Mr. Wrynn

The environmental technologies action plan is not strictly related to this initiative. It is another surprising joint initiative by the Commission, involving the DG research and the DG environment. It concentrates on encouraging research into environmental technologies. A considerable emphasis in that document which has just been agreed by the Commission is on encouragement of opportunities in new environmental technologies, particularly with a view to creating business opportunities for companies in eastern Europe, which have a lot of environmental problems to be sorted out. There are various recommendations on research and other aspects which do not cross over the EuP issue, which is product centred, but if in an overarching way there is greater research on environmental technologies, it could spill over into this area as well.

Mr. Wrynn, are you convinced that we as a nation are doing enough in this regard?

Mr. Wrynn

We are doing a considerable amount. Our Department is involved in a considerable level of activity with Science Foundation Ireland and research expenditure generally is at a very high level.

On specific assistance towards environmental products, my colleague, Ms Dorothy Maxwell, is involved with a scheme in Enterprise Ireland where grant aid is provided to companies to develop environmentally superior products. Ms Maxwell will be happy to give further details on that.

My questions are more prosaic. Nobody could have any objection to the stated objectives of the directive. The job of this committee, as opposed to the environment committee, is to vet it in terms of its impact on industry and Irish competitiveness.

The recommendation from the IBEC deputation is that the transposition of the directive be an Article 95 transposition. Is that what is intended? This question is aimed at the people who deal with the Council. I am not clear as to what is meant by the view expressed regarding the avoidance of third party certification. Is there an expectation that once the directive is transposed there would be some new body set up to validate some self-regulatory internal mechanism for complying without the requirement of full compliance with the directive? What is proposed in that situation?

The presentation we have had relates to the internal market of the EU. It is about putting in the mechanisms that will not disadvantage the internal market. What is the implication for the directive in terms of the competitiveness of European companies vis-à-vis external non-EU companies, companies which surely still hold the majority share of the ICT market? Is there satisfaction from IBEC? There was no mention that competitiveness issues will not arise from establishing environmental best practice within the EU, if that is not to be followed externally.

My questions are on the same lines as those of Deputy Howlin. The delegation is calling for imported products to be subject to the same EU requirements. Challenges exist outside the EU from various products. What progress has been made on an EU-wide agreement on standardisation of all products, irrespective of whether they are internal or external to the EU? Can that be done at national level or is it the case that a common system throughout the EU must be agreed? Has the national Government any latitude on how it deals with challenges from outside the EU?

On the issue of certification raised by Deputy Howlin, I also seek clarification. The third part asks that we reject third party certification. I agree with that, but what type of certification would be regarded as the optimum? We would also like clarification on what is meant by "that thorough studies should be conducted" in the new implementing measures. Studies can go on forever. Can the delegation be more specific as to what is meant and what precise studies are required before we implement the directive?

My question relates to what has already been asked. Has the ICT sector harmonised to a European standard or to a US standard? That has implications for our own competitiveness. If the EU standard arising from this directive is higher than the US, we are putting ourselves at a disadvantage, which would concern me.

Mr. John Hayes

The first question was about Article 95. Yes, it is intended, but some of the environmental committee in the European Parliament have sought for it to come under Article 175. Some of the member states have also indicated a preference for that. The concern of industry is that Article 175 legislation will have varying implementing measures in the different countries. This is not possible for a worldwide industry. An Article 95 is probably the most workable system that industry could manage.

In terms of how it will be transposed, what would your bet be?

Mr. Wrynn

It will be Article 95. We would all favour that. It was discussed at a Council of Ministers meeting before Christmas and there was very strong support for Article 95 because, as Mr. Hayes has pointed out, it can become very messy if the other one is used. It should be an internal market issue. We are confident that it will end up as Article 95.

Mr. Hayes

On third party certification, if one examines the back of any electrical product today, there is a CE mark on it which indicates electrical safety. The testing for that electrical safety is usually carried out in-house, in companies such as IBM or HP which will have their own authorised testing labs. There are also independent labs around Europe, which will test for companies that lack their own. It tends to be much more efficient and much cheaper to do it that way. It is efficient in that the product is developed and tested all in a conveyer belt type system, whereas if one uses a third party, one has to get behind other companies. It will be much more difficult. There is concern that it would slow down the whole introduction to market——

Who validates those standards?

Mr. Hayes

It is self-validation, but also bodies in the various member states can pick products off the shelf and test them to ensure they are compliant with the electrical safety requirements.

Who tests the products?

Who does that sampling?

Who does the picking?

Mr. Hayes

I am not sure who does it in Ireland. It could be National Standards Authority of Ireland. It could even be the Health and Safety Authority. Different bodies do it in each of the member states.

Mr. Buckley

The question that Deputy Howlin asked about outside the EU is a very important point. If one looks at much of the regulation in this area, it is singularly Europe that is going ahead on areas such as chemicals directive and emissions trading. This is a huge area of concern. If one is to be ahead of the posse and start something, there are some benefits. However, returning to the point we raised earlier today, the detail is in how one does it and one tries to extract the benefits of innovation without adding the costs. Deputy Howlin will be aware of that. We started licensing perhaps ten years ahead of everyone else. Looking back——

Ten years ago, they came to look at our best practice.

Mr. Buckley

Indeed, yes. It is important. It all goes back to an issue of sustainable development. It is the balance between cost and environmental gain. On some of the issues which have been raised here today, the fear is that one will get the cost without the environmental gain and the innovation that we spoke of. Obviously, the companies present today are involved in many of those things.

Mr. Wrynn mentioned that it is a framework directive and on that basis a lot of the detail is not there. It is important that, as we are going down this road, we focus on this issue and get the benefits. If we can get the benefits without the cost, then the European directive in front of us will not be the prime point. That is difficult to achieve and concerns exist that we do not always get the balance right.

Mr. Hayes

In response to Deputy Hogan's question about progress on the worldwide standard in the context of the EU, this is the EU standard and it is definitely out in front. The progress to a worldwide standard is at best slow; it may be an ISO standard but there is nothing specifically along these lines moving towards an eco design standard. There is a serious concern that because technology moves so fast the legislation is potentially redundant by the time it is written. Are there any further questions on certification?

Will there be a specific mark to go with the eco standard levels?

Mr. Wrynn

The CE mark will cover it. A product will have one CE mark which will show that it complies with the whole range of available measures. It might already have a CE mark for something else, such as electrical safety.

A distinctive new eco mark would put European products at the cutting edge.

Ms Dorothy Maxwell

There are already several eco labels on the market which come through the legislative system as well but the uptake is quite poor. The idea behind this concept for energy-using products was to make things easier and use an existing third party validation system and tie in the eco design concept to that so one does not have to look at additional new ones.

Mr. Hayes

Deputy Hogan also asked about further studies. We are looking for impact assessments. There have been very limited impact assessments for some EU legislation. Most notable recently is the draft legislation for regulation, evaluation and authorisation of chemicals, otherwise known as REACH. Many member states are very uncomfortable with the level of assessment completed by the Commission prior even to drafting a White Paper. We agree that it cannot be unlimited but it does need to be more focused and possibly more realistic in scope.

I can understand that the marks would apply more to safety than energy saving standards, but what about disposal of the product in an environmentally friendly way? I speak as one who will be living near landfills.

Hopefully not.

Hopefully not but is there anything in this directive that more or less compels industry to make sure that products can be disposed of in an environmentally friendly manner? Is any research under way on this subject?

Is this the electrical equipment directive which comes into effect in August 2005 and will oblige manufacturers to take back electrical products?

Mr. Buckley

That is right.

Has the task force considered the implications of this yet and will the implementation of this directive reduce the demands or costs on businesses of that directive? That is what Deputy Callanan is coming at too.

Is it the practice in the industry to produce to the European standard across the production line? I ask out of curiosity. Will a situation arise whereby a product being pushed into the European market will be produced to a higher environmental standard but, for instance, computer components for the Chinese or American markets will be of a lower environmental compliance? Is that likely to emerge from this directive?

Will anyone take Deputy Callanan's question, which is very close to the bone at the moment?

Mr. Wrynn

Another directive to which the Deputy referred is the Waste Electrical and Electronic Equipment Directive, due to come into force into 2005-06, which proposes an onerous regime to ensure that electrical goods are properly disposed of at the end of their life. It proposes that industry pay for the cost of disposal, even to the point of being responsible for disposal of products manufactured by companies other than those in the market, which is a sensitive and far-reaching issue.

The Department has formed a task force, of which some of us are members, to work out the mechanics of that because there will have to be collective gathering and financing systems. That directive will address the fate of electrical and electronic equipment at the end of its life.

Is this the directive that will take effect from the end of August 2005?

Mr. Buckley

Beginning in August 2005 there will be free take back for any piece of electric or electronic equipment. We are doing a great deal of work on this and hope to have a compliance scheme in place to deal with it instead of producers taking individual responsibility. There is a producers' responsibility scheme and we hope to have a scheme in place for 2005 when the free take back begins. The target from 2006 is to collect 4 kilograms of waste electrical and electronic equipment per person in Ireland. It will not simply be disposed of. Recycling targets are very high, as are recovery and reuse targets. The two directives will be linked in that manufacturers will design their goods in a more eco friendly way and there will be less disposal and more recycling of electronic equipment.

Mr. Hayes

Some questions have not been fully answered, for example, on new implementation measures. We want the Commission to quantify what environmental improvements are foreseen by any measures which it thinks necessary and to avoid additional requirements where maybe voluntary standards or other initiatives exist. One example is the TV industry's voluntary standard for energy usage to which over 80% of the industry has signed up. It is a very strong voluntary measure which the Commission has acknowledged and it is less concerned about that area.

Another question raised harmonising standards and marketing to the EU or the US. Industry tends to produce a single PC whether to be sold here, in the US, or Japan. It can force companies into additional expense to manufacture to different standards if necessary, or if something is not effective, they could stop producing into a market for a period until, for example, it could be improved or changed to the standard required in the EU. It is not possible to give a straight answer. If one is manufacturing to a US standard and an EU standard one would manufacture to a global standard.

If the EU level is higher the global product will be produced at EU standard, is that correct?

Mr. Hayes

Yes, and the transatlantic business dialogue would be concerned if the US felt that Europe was driving something it did not see as very important, and that would lead to various trade issues.

Is it possible to stop people importing inferior material?

Mr. Hayes

The directive does not make clear whether one can import or stop the importation of goods manufactured outside the EU which do not meet the requirements of this legislation.

That should be written in.

Mr. Hayes

Absolutely.

We can all agree with that.

I welcome Mr. Buckley's comments that in 2005 there will be a free collection service. Compared with the new entrants to the EU, costs imposed on businesses here are very high. I understand that standards will come up in the accession states. However, notwithstanding that, it is important that the Department and IBEC be constantly mindful of costs to industry, remembering that the smallest additional costs can lose jobs.

Mr. Buckley

It is a point we have made repeatedly. Costs always have to be legitimate. However, on the environmental scene, we do have costs without benefit and that really hurts because no one gets any gain, cost is added, competitiveness is reduced and it ultimately costs people employment. If there is to be an environmental gain, there can be some justification for the costs. However, this area is a classic example where we have the highest waste disposal charges in Europe without the environmental gain that should come with it.

Should there be some provision in this directive that implementing measures be approved by the Competitiveness Council before they are adopted?

Mr. Wrynn

That is a useful suggestion. There is a fear, as everybody has expressed, of how the actual implementing measures will work. The Competitiveness Council would be a good forum to discuss this. The implementing measures will be processed by a committee formed by the Commission which will be formed by the enterprise and energy DGs and member states' representatives. There is an unease about making the process too unwieldy, but there is still unease at how the mechanics of it will operate. The competitiveness issues are the key elements and if there was a role for the Competitiveness Council it could be done.

Mr. Buckley

IBEC would like a body such as the Competitiveness Council to oversee an issue of this importance. Hopefully, it will not have to on the basis that the directive could be brought in in a manner that would be business friendly. IBEC would be supportive of such a consultation.

I thank all the delegations for attending this morning. The committee will work closely with them for the remaining life of this Government. These are the groups that we look to in protecting our environment and enhancing Ireland as a nation. We certainly appreciate their efforts and the committee was impressed by the presentations. These groups are the professionals in this field and with whom the committee wishes to work closely. This committee is the conduit to Government and we look forward to delegations assisting us in our deliberations. This committee receives 30% to 40% of all EU scrutiny from most Departments. It comes in by the half stone weekly and we need the assistance of delegations.

I wish to be associated with the Chairman's comments. These were very informative presentations.

The joint committee adjourned at 10.35 a.m. sine die.
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