Today we will hear a presentation by Dr. Niamh Clune, director, Wealth from Waste, on the impact of resource recovery parks from the perspective of reducing the business costs of waste management and on job creation. I welcome Dr. Clune and Dr. Doug Johnson. Before inviting Dr. Clune to commence her presentation, I draw attention to the fact that while members of the committee have absolute privilege, the same privilege does not extend to those appearing before the committee. Members are also reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that they should not comment on or make charges against a person outside the Houses or an official by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable.
Waste Management: Presentation.
Dr. Niamh Clune
I thank the joint committee for the invitation to speak to it about the proposed roll-out of a resource recovery park in Gort which will be the first of its kind in Europe and involve the entire community. I will provide the committee with some background information on the project.
Wealth from Waste has been actively promoting the idea of wealth from waste to county councils and the Government. In that regard, it has made presentations to many councils, including Galway City Council, Galway County Council, the Western Regional Authority, and, on two occasions, to the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government. We have also met the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy Roche, and the Minister of State at that Department, Deputy Batt O'Keeffe.
Using our model of resource recovery parks, which I will explain later in my presentation, we hope to change the perception that waste is rubbish to be buried or burned and to illustrate that it is a valuable resource which can assist in the creation of employment. Current statistics indicate that the use of waste, if used as a valuable resource, could result in the creation of ten times more jobs than current waste management practices. Waste is the goldmine of the 21st century. As it will always be with us, we must think of creative ways to use it rather than burying or burning it, which we believe is a waste of valuable resources.
The project evolved from a feasibility study undertaken by Wealth from Waste for Galway County Council and a social impact study undertaken for Galway Rural Development of the town of Gort. The vision is that people will bring all recyclables to a central location to be known as a resource recovery park. The word "park" sounds nicer and presents a more positive image than a stinking dump or landfill. The waste will then be reproduced on the same site as value-added products and resold to the community which helped to create them. This will help to close the loop. Recycling will be free of charge. We propose to offer a low-cost collection service to businesses and households. Businesses using the recycled, reused and recovered materials will also be co-located, thereby creating a local multiplier effect. It is like a shopping mall for waste, with waste from one business becoming the feed stock of another, all of them clustered around the resource recovery centre. A local department store could also be located there. We have tossed around ideas such as "The Imagination Factory" for the recycle mart, asking the community to come up with creative names.
Anything that involves DIY, such as paint, broken tiles, furnishing off-cuts and other waste that cannot be disposed of, can be well organised and ordered in this recycle mart where people can get such material at a reasonable cost. These have been proven to be popular in those areas in which they have been located and to make a lot of money which can be put back into the project. It would be a pleasant place in the heart of the community for everyone. There would be links to education through the local green school programmes. Whatever could not be recycled naturally or through the marketplace at the end of the scheme could be easily identified, on which we could then work with the Department. We must track such items because they end up in landfill.
We are closing the loop. We do not seek to compete with large-scale industry, rather we support national and international interests, identifying waste no one else wants and exploring innovative ways of processing it. We make it into value-added products on the same site to be sold locally. We are creating pure feed stock out of local waste materials to be sold to larger markets.
We support the incubation of new small-scale businesses around Ireland. When we did the research for the resource recovery project study, we looked at the activities that would be viable and self-sufficient and asked if we could create local business opportunities and jobs. We used ten criteria to determine which were the viable secondary materials. These range from economic to social considerations, because this is a public private partnership between ourselves, a strong local community development group, the business community, the county council, schools and GRD. It is a strong partnership in which many stakeholders are involved.
We included a resource recovery project proposal with the business plan in our feasibility study for the county council in which we studied the waste stream in Connacht. The population in the Gort area is around 17,559, with a growth rate of 53.3% in the past six years. We carried out a projected population analysis and the town will probably grow by that much again in the next six years. The area is large enough to support a small-scale resource recovery park project of this nature.
On average, Gort businesses spend about €20,350 a year on waste collection, a phenomenal amount. They could save an average of €14,245 annually, based on 70% recycling, which is possible using the resource recovery park model. That is the reason the business community is so excited. When we carried out a cost analysis for resource recovery parks in Ireland, the average cost of placing 10,000 tonnes of waste per annum in a landfil site was €150 to €200 per tonne. Therefore, with a 70% recycling or recovery rate, over €1 million would be saved. The savings are massive. We are suggesting that the community which buys the waste owns the waste. That community should be allowed to make something creative out of it, sell it back to members of the community and generate income which would go back into the project. By doing that we could create jobs. In the town of Gort, for example, we could create 21 jobs.
After paying salaries and all our bills the project could generate income of €78,264. This may not seem like a large amount but it would make a difference to a community development project. This, in turn, would allow us to offer social services to members of the local community who do not have a choice regarding recycling. Some elderly people, for example, who live in outlying rural areas cannot bring their waste for recycling. We could offer them a community service which would also assist social inclusion. We could offer a whole-systems approach. These effects could all be felt in a very small area. In New Zealand, for example, the Zero Waste Trust predicts that 40,000 new jobs will be created in New Zealand alone over the next ten years, as transfer stations are converted into resource recovery parks.
We looked at potential sources of funding. I show these on the PowerPoint screen. I will not list them. The final screen shows an overview of the project.
Thank you, Dr. Clune, for a very interesting presentation. I also thank Deputies Callanan and McHugh, who have been instrumental in inviting you and Mr. Johnson to speak to the committee.
Ireland's population is approximately equal to that of New Zealand. How many thousand jobs could we create in Ireland if we adopted the system you propose?
Mr. Doug Johnson
A careful study was done in New Zealand and the figures arrived at were conservative. New Zealand adopted this approach at a very early stage and that country is committed to this type of waste recovery system. Ireland is at a good point because it has not invested in a great deal of infrastructure. We could make up our mind to invest in resource recovery parks, in which case the job creation figures in Ireland could be the same as in New Zealand.
We could create 10,000 jobs.
Dr. Clune
There could be 10,000 jobs. This type of system creates ten times more jobs than current waste management systems involving only the trucking operations. The system is labour-intensive, which is very good. It is an income-generating project.
The system proposed would benefit the environment and create jobs and new alternative products.
Dr. Clune
A recovery rate of between 70% and 90%, which is possible, would leave residual waste of only 10% which cannot be recycled back into nature or into the marketplace. There are technologies which would render that last 10% inert by steam cleaning or by putting it through MBT, which means there is no leachate.
What is MBT?
Dr. Clune
It is mechanical biological treatment. That system hangs the waste out to dry and composts it so it is no longer toxic. The residual amount is being reduced constantly because packaging is improving and producer responsibility is increasing as a result of EU directives and legislation.
If we can recover that amount, it means all the industrial processes that have gone into creating the product in the first place - of which the average life span is approximately six months before it is buried or burned - including the mining, logging, industrial processes and so forth, are taken out of the equation. We can drastically reduce CO2 emissions globally by recovering 70% to 90% of what is produced and treating it as a resource. A plastic bottle is oil, at the end of the day. It is predicted that we will dig up landfill sites in the future to recover plastic from them.
I thank the Chairman and committee for acceding to my request and that of Deputy McHugh to invite Dr. Clune and Mr. Johnson to appear before the committee. This is a very exciting project. Dr. Clune and Mr. Johnson came to Gort several years ago. They have brought all of the communities of Gort together under one umbrella organisation called GRACE, the Gort Regional Alliance for Community and Environment, which is a major achievement.
That is a major achievement.
Dr. Clune has the support of everybody for this project, which would be very important in any community. The business people are behind her, as is the county council. She has asked the council for a land base to begin the project and the outlook is very positive in that regard.
Dr. Clune pointed out earlier that waste is a valuable resource. A resource recovery park at Gort could serve as a pilot project for the whole country. As a public representative, I have travelled around the country, examining different waste management solutions because problems arose in my area with the landfill site. We are delighted that Dr. Clune and others are examining the other end of the spectrum of waste management, that is, trying to recover and recycle as much waste as possible.
This project is very exciting and has the full support of the people of Gort and surrounding areas. We urge the Government to support it as a pilot project which could be of benefit to the entire country. I am confident it will be successful, given the determination and drive of those involved.
The idea behind inviting Dr. Clune and Mr. Johnson before the committee this morning was to garner support among members for their project. The committee will make a recommendation that the project be supported at governmental, departmental and ministerial level.
It should be supported as a pilot project for the whole country.
Deputy Quinn had to leave to attend another meeting. He asked me to extend his apologies to the delegates and to thank them for their presentation.
I join Deputy Callanan in welcoming Dr. Clune and Mr. Johnson to this meeting. At a time when waste management is such a hot topic, this project represents a totally new departure and is most welcome. It is very well thought out, as the presentation indicated. I heard a similar presentation by Dr. Clune in Gort. The more one hears and thinks about a waste recovery park, the more one realises how relevant it is and how it could represent the future in terms of dealing with waste.
Deputy Callanan referred to the enthusiasm of Dr. Clune and her ability to manage people, groups and organisations in the Gort area. If that ability can be refocused on creating wealth from managing waste, the project has a successful future ahead of it. The Chairman outlined that the reason for the presentation was that the committee would make a submission on the project to the Government. As Deputy Callanan stated, the idea is to get Government support to initiate the project on a pilot basis. The remit of the joint committee is to deal with small business. To this end, we should support ideas which would be beneficial to small business. We should give our support to this project.
With the permission of the committee, I ask Deputy Callanan to take the Chair, as I must attend another meeting.
Deputy J. Callanan took the Chair.
This is superb thinking; however, I am not convinced it will work, although I want it to. It would be worth having a pilot project for this scheme. In the past three budget debates I suggested the Government should examine the possibility of providing for a tax base for any community which was prepared to deal with its own waste and meet its own energy requirements. Is there an energy component in this project?
I support the proposal and we should ask the Government to pilot the project. In the event of its being a viable prospect, any community that can look after its own waste is a gem. Apart from the impact of the project on the emissions of CO2 and the Kyoto Protocol elements, there is the pure-bottom level politics of creating an awareness and getting people involved in resource recovery.
I would see the project developing in such a way that if a business or domestic household were registered as a fully participating partner in resource recovery, it should be entitled to a defined percentage tax rebate. This project deserves such a response. Similarly, if a community sets up a windfarm, meets its own energy needs and feeds energy into the national grid and is prepared to put up with the disturbance it creates, it should receive recognition. We have to give communities responsibility for managing their own affairs. I have suggested at times to mild reactionary elements that there would be a great case to be made to see what would happen if there were no waste collection countrywide for a period of six months. We would take a brand new view of waste, having seen what would pile up
This is a most progressive, creative, visionary and attractive set of proposals but I cannot believe the project will work. However, I want to believe it will. It should receive all the support required. This is a fall-out from the discussion on the Kyoto Protocol. It might also soften the views of Neanderthals such as President George Bush on how we might deal with waste. This initiative is to be welcomed.
Dr. Clune
I thank Deputies Callanan and McHugh and Senator O'Toole for their comments. I did not realise Deputy McHugh was also involved in ensuring we would appear before the committee. I thank him for the support he has provided for our work, although he lives in Tuam.
There are reasons for his interest in Gort.
Dr. Clune
We appreciate his style. He is very charming and it works.
On the question of whether it will work, it is noteworthy that we have the support of the entire business community. The Gort Regional Alliance for Community and Environment, or GRACE, which I started 18 months ago, is an umbrella association and, as such, it has just been provided with an office by the business community. Businesses have been extremely generous. There are 26 groups under the GRACE umbrella, which means we reach into every part of the community, including business, social inclusion organisations, the socially excluded, the elderly, the actively retired, schools, children and youth. If the process will work at all, it will work in Gort. Gort is a very useful place for this to take place. The local authority has indicated that it will provide 4.7 acres of land within the town centre, beside the railway station and at the back of the large DIY store, which is a perfect location. If it works, it will be an example to the whole of Europe, in which regard we hope to promote eco-tourism at the site. We hope also to create an energy-efficient structure, which is an idea with which we are very engaged, having recently built an eco-house. We hope to use in the project some of the concepts Sustainable Energy Ireland is exploring.
It appears from a calculation that the project is barely meeting the minimum wage guidelines in the pay of its 18 workers. I recommend taking another look.
Dr. Clune
Unfortunately, that is one of the issues I have with the Pobal funding. The workers are on community employment schemes and while they should be paid more, we cannot do it.
I plead with Dr. Clune to use the traditional, old Irish name for Gort, Gort Inse Guaire, as opposed to the new one. There is a Minister going around the country.
Dr. Clune
As the Senator can tell from my accent, I have been out of the country for a long time and am in the process of catching up.
Dr. Clune should not worry about that, but simply make a note of the point.
I welcome Mr. Johnson and Dr. Clune to the meeting and thank the Chairman and Deputy McHugh for inviting them. The proposal the witnesses have made is very enlightening. I came across a similar idea at a presentation on the recycling of furniture in the USA for use in the community. It is a very worthy notion.
Have the witnesses made their presentation to other local authorities? If not, I invite them to make it to Roscommon County Council, of which I used to be a member. I am sure my colleagues there would be delighted to receive them. We have a site just outside the town of Roscommon at Killerny at which land could be made available for a proposal similar to the planned project for Gort. It would be an ideal use as the site is developed, but nothing else will happen there.
What has the experience of the witnesses been with the current recycling programme? We are all getting into this now, especially young people. Children in households enjoy the challenge of separating waste. Galway city is the leading light of the programme, having been ahead of the posse in this area. Many people, however, are not convinced that separated glass, tin, plastic and cartons are being properly recycled. Do the witnesses have a perspective on that? There is free collection in Killerny of obsolete dishwashers and washing machines, many of which are eminently recyclable. One unit can be used to put another back into operation. By changing the programme one could have two units. Where would they ultimately be going - China or somewhere else? I never followed this up. Much building waste such as tiles is thrown out. If Dr. Clune is planning another project in her region, I suggest she consider locating it in County Roscommon. I recommend she make today's presentation to councillors because they are anxious to be involved. Nobody has suffered more than the Acting Chairman on the old question of landfill. It is unreasonable to see so much at one location, as it has repercussions. It would be a tremendous breakthrough if Dr. Clune could create a situation where jobs would be created in Deputy Callanan's area.
Dr. Clune
We are aware of the trouble Deputy Callanan has had. The group involved invited us to talk to it 18 months or two years ago, as it was excited about the idea of a resource recovery park and would have supported it to the hilt. Unfortunately, we could not transmit the idea to the council in time. It has been a long, slow process. We would like to support Deputy Callanan in anything that could be done to alleviate the problem. This idea is popular from the grass roots up to the more enlightened councillors.
Recycling is something of a farce. Much of the material goes to China. A reliable source, known to committee members, has told me that when he was late putting out his recycling bin of separated waste, the waste collector told him to throw it in with the general waste, as it all goes to the same place in the end. Waste companies are not being responsible. We were almost warned off doing this by waste companies because it is a serious challenge to them. We have had to suggest to the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy Roche, that it is all right to have positive competition and that we should not be stopped because we are competitive. We need to revolutionise the way waste is treated and they knew it would be a revolution. As Mr. Johnson said, Ireland is in an amazing position to do this because it has not yet invested huge amounts of money in incinerators to burn waste, which would be very unpopular. In addition to the dioxins created, there is no safe incineration process. By the time we examine the carbon dioxide emissions and take everything out of the equation, we can see a viable proposition.
We can shred plastic and add wood shavings to make "super wood" for building. We could make fleece fabric from it, although we would not do so because each resource recovery centre must focus on what is possible in its area. We examined the industry around us and noticed there were some good horse trainers around Gort. For €14,000 we can buy a small, economic glass crusher designed for use on boats to prevent bottles from being dropped in the sea. We removed the picture of one from our presentation because we had to shorten it. The crusher implodes the glass and turns it into silicate, which is an amazing surface on which to train horses, as it is better than sand, drains better, and gives horses a great work out by making them use all their muscles. A local horse trainer is using it and was so excited when he heard we were going to do it that he immediately said he wanted to be involved in the project. We are going to get all the glass from all the businesses involved, which will save them from having to deal with it.
Some very good comments were made by Senator O'Toole in terms of tax and reducing taxation for communities that do this. We could also crush it so that it is larger, so that what we get is sparkly, multicoloured beautiful glass for paving. I definitely want some of it in my garden. It is pretty. Ladies will love it and will want it. We know we can do glass. We have already talked about cardboard. We can use all those materials, including wood and glass. We can crush cans. If we cannot do anything with them, we will deliver them to someone who can. As soon as something is done to any recycled material, as soon as it is processed, by shredding it, baling it, pelleting it, it immediately becomes value-added, so we are making money from it.
That is very good. Has Waste from Wealth approached local authorities in Roscommon?
Dr. Clune
We have not been to Roscommon.
I will get details from Dr. Clune and I will talk to them.
Dr. Clune
I thank the Senator.
In regard to other equipment such as washing machines and dishwashers, to Dr. Clune's knowledge, where do they go?
Dr. Clune
They probably go to China for steel collection. There are companies that take out bits, such as gases out of fridges, and the fridges are then crushed and used as metal and are being recycled in that way. There are companies doing better ecodesign like Ford and Toyota, which design cars for lease for a certain number of years and then put in new components. In that way, one gets a brand new car every six years but only components are replaced. The more we push for this as a nation, the more we will put pressure on the producers because it is they who must make the money down the road. They need to be ten years ahead of the thinking. Oil is running out. Everyone knows that the three biggest threats to our environment are pollution, global warming and resource depletion. If we do this, we will be ahead of the game overnight.
In regard to using plastic for instance, for firelighters, has the organisation examined all the possibilities for using plastic for other purposes? I am delighted with this presentation. It is one of the most interesting presentations I have heard here for some time. It is great that somebody has put some thought into this whole idea. On the building side, there is much resistance to recycling of building materials. The problem is in getting a site for recycling of building material. The site in Roscommon would be ideal for the type of project under discussion.
Dr. Clune
How big is it?
It is very big. It is on the dump site. Unfortunately, it was used at one time as a Traveller site. Part of it is quite demeaned, to say the least. That is being demolished and the area will be available. I believe the councillors in Roscommon are fairly enlightened people. I will make a call to them in a few minutes.
Dr. Clune
We had an input into the Connacht waste management plan. We had to work really hard to get the wording of resource recovery park into the plan so that we could build on that. We wanted to have one really big recycling resource recovery park to service Connacht and we came up against the fact that we would be competing. It must be done very carefully so that there are many different models. One would be a model which is community-based. A much bigger one taking waste from all over Connacht would be a different model and we would need to help with how that would be shaped because we have done the research on that as well.
I am pleased to say I voted against the Connacht waste management plan. I am totally against incinerators, which have an insatiable appetite for waste to keep them operational. It is a negative system. I was one of the few who voted against the concept of incinerators. To build an incinerator in a green country which prides itself on the production of good-quality food is akin to erecting a nuclear power station. That may sound a little old-fashioned to those who believe we must accept change. However, I have not changed my view of incinerators.
My wife and I have an organic farm in Roscommon. I am opposed to the location of an incinerator in Tuam which could result in dust coming onto our land, to be consumed again. I thank Dr. Clune for attending today.
Dr. Clune
Perhaps I can outline the background to the project to Senator Leyden. During our involvement, over a ten-year period, with Oxfam, UNICEF and the world food programme in the development of overseas aid in Africa, we learned how environmental issues can impact on world poverty. When we returned to live in Guildford we became aware of a proposal to build an incinerator two and a half times the size of Guildford cathederal within 500 metres of our house. I then set about learning about incinerators in terms of whether they are good or bad and so on. I researched the issue internationally and formed the opinion that they are an absolute disaster, but rather than oppose them I decided to seek out an alternative. The proposed resource recovery park is a positive replacement for incinerators. Very few people have come up with an alternative that could work. The world's best minds who developed the zero waste strategies are economists, social scientists and chemists and they are promoting this idea. We have been working on a specific design that will work in Ireland having regard to the law, culture and so on.
Is the committee agreed that we should write to the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment in respect of the potential for job creation as identified by Dr. Clune, and also to the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government in regard to the environmental matters contained in the presentation with a view to supporting the proposed recovery park on a pilot basis?
Yes. I also suggest we write to the Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs, as his Department operates the rural employment scheme being availed of by Dr. Clune's organisation.
Dr. Clune
We are an unfunded organisation. I won a Social Entrepreneurs Ireland award and this enables me to continue my work in this area.
We should request that the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, through the county councils, provide financial support for this project under the CLÁR programme. I believe he would be very open to this idea. We should ask that the Minster request the county councils to adopt this project. I will communicate with Dr. Clune regarding a presentation to Roscommon County Council.
Dr. Clune
I thank Senator Leyden for his invitation.
Acting Chairman
I thank Dr. Clune and Dr. Johnson for attending and participating in what has been a very informative discussion. I wish them the best of luck with their project. I know both witnesses and I am confident they will make it work. We must ensure the project succeeds in the best interests of the country. I thank the witnesses for their presentation.
Dr. Clune
I thank the Acting Chairman and members of the committee for their time. I will send Deputies Callanan and McHugh an invitation to the launch.
I apologise for being late; I was attending a meeting in the next room.
Acting Chairman
As there is no further business, the meeting is adjourned.
The joint committee adjourned at 10.20 a.m. until 9.30 a.m. on Wednesday, 11 October 2006.