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JOINT COMMITTEE ON ENVIRONMENT AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT debate -
Wednesday, 6 Jul 2005

Private Residential Tenancies Board: Presentation.

We will now have a presentation by the Private Residential Tenancies Board. We welcome the board's representatives to the meeting today. The discussion will deal with the operations of the board to date, as well as its future role and plans.

I draw the witnesses' attention to the fact that members of the committee have absolute privilege but that this same privilege does not apply to witnesses appearing before the committee. Members are also reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside House or an official by name in such a way as to make him or her identifiable.

We welcome Mr. Tom Dunne, chairman of the board, Ms Shirley Groarke, acting director, and Ms Sheila McMahon, a board member. We are grateful that they have taken the time to address us this afternoon.

Mr. Tom Dunne

I thank the Chairman and the committee for the invitation given to the Private Residential Tenancies Board to make this presentation. We are pleased to have the opportunity to brief the committee on the operations of the board to date.

The Private Residential Tenancies Board, PRTB, was established on a statutory basis on 1 September 2004, the date on which the first large portion of the Residential Tenancies Act 2004 came into operation. The principal functions of the board are: dispute resolution and tenancy registration; provision to the Minister of policy advice on the private rented sector; development and publication of good practice guidelines; collection and provision of information on the sector, including information relating to rents; research and monitoring of various aspects of the sector; and to review the operation of the Act and make recommendations to the Minister in respect of any necessary amendments, as well as any additional functions conferred by ministerial order.

The Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government appointed the 15 members to the board on 28 October 2004. The terms of membership of six members will expire on 31 December 2007 and the terms of the remaining nine will expire on 30 September 2009. The intention is to ensure that there will always be a continuity of experienced members. The members who, in accordance with the Act, were appointed for their relevant expertise and experience are primarily from legal, auctioneering, landlord, tenant and social policy backgrounds.

The 2004 Act allows the Minister to provide services to the board — including the services of staff — and up to now the board has been primarily staffed by departmental officials in a combination of formal assignments, loans and temporary arrangements. It has also engaged varying numbers of agency or contract staff to undertake specific duties that mainly relate to the registration system. The total number of staff working there at present is 43, including 16 contract staff. The board is affected by the embargo on public service numbers and, like all State bodies, the numbers, remuneration and conditions of employment are subject to the consent of the Minister for Finance. In addition, panels of 120 mediators and 88 adjudicators were established in preparation for the board's dispute resolution role.

The PRTB is currently in a developmental phase as it makes a transition from its former purely advisory role to operating statutory services and moving onwards to a point, probably in the next year or 18 months, where it is likely to become a fully stand alone operation with its own staff corps. At that point, it will directly provide or procure various support services currently provided to it by the Department in areas such as personnel, accounts and IT. During this process of transition, it will build up a considerable store of experience and expertise in addition to fine tuning its procedures and services.

The residential tenancies legislation passed by the Oireachtas last year has already enjoyed considerable success. This legislation represents major reform in the area and, to date, there has been no evidence of, or commentary on, interference with the operation of the market and the supply of and access to accommodation. Given that the legislation was enacted at a time of quite static rent levels and less attractive capital yields, the fact it did not result in any departure from the market by investors is an encouraging vote of confidence in the new regime. It is also good to note that the PRTB has no evidence, contrary to the predictions of some doomsayers, that there was a higher than normal instance of termination of tenancies before the security of tenure rights kicked in for pre-existing tenants on 1 March 2005.

Over 80,000 tenancy registration applications have been made to the PRTB. This contrasts sharply with the fact that the numbers recorded under the local authority registration system never reached 30,000. Literally, tens of thousands of queries and information requests on private rental matters have been dealt with. Several hundred tenancy problems have been resolved, through the assistance of the PRTB's staff, without the need to have recourse to the formal dispute resolution mechanism. These include cases where evictions have been averted. A very effective model of formal dispute resolution, involving mediation, adjudication and tribunal hearings, has been developed and strong panels of mediators and adjudicators have been assembled.

As can happen with any entirely new undertaking, the PRTB encountered some teething problems and it has taken longer than we would have wished or anticipated to get to the sort of response time to queries and applications we would consider desirable. The sheer volume of calls and applications has been a major factor. The high rate of defects in applications has added to the workload and some landlords seem to have had difficulty, for example, in obtaining tenant details. Some difficulties in the IT area were encountered and it has taken longer than anticipated to build up the board's permanent staff corps. Action has been put in train to address these issues, significant progress is being made and the learning curve being followed will stand to the benefit of the board in refining is operations and services.

I hope these remarks will give the committee a reasonably good picture of where the board stands at present. I propose to comment in more detail on some of the key functions of the PRTB. I will be glad to respond to the best of my ability to any questions from the Chairman or members.

It may be helpful to refer back briefly to the origins of the PRTB. As many members will know, the Residential Tenancies Act and the PRTB came out of the report in 2000 of the Commission on the Private Rented Residential Sector, which I chaired, the recommendations of which were accepted virtually in their entirety by Government. The legislation was considered at length during its passage through the Oireachtas and a number of improvements were made. In anticipation that enactment would take a certain amount of time, the Government set up the board on an interim or ad hoc basis in October 2001 to inform the development of the draft legislation and to offer a mediation service for disputes referred on a voluntary basis by both parties. I also chaired the interim board and several of the current board members also served on it, so some of us have built up quite an amount of experience in this private rented sector reform process.

Preparations for the statutory services in the period before September 2004 involved mainly the following: development of the mediation and adjudication service; commissioning, implementing and testing the IT system to support the registration and dispute resolution services; drafting of relevant forms, rules and procedures; compiling informational material; and general administrative arrangements, including sourcing and equipping suitable premises from which to operate. A considerable effort was invested in developing the dispute resolution service. The panels of some 200 mediators and adjudicators, with very good qualifications and experience, were assembled. The board arranged information, training and support for these personnel in regard to landlord and tenant issues and the new residential tenancies legislation.

Significant resources were applied in providing and publicising a voluntary mediation service in advance of the full statutory dispute resolution service. Take-up of the voluntary service was unfortunately low due to the requirement for joint landlord and tenant agreement to use the service. In this period, the board contributed significantly to the refinement of the dispute resolution provisions in the Residential Tenancies Act.

As already stated, many of the provisions of the 2004 Act came into operation on the board's establishment date of 1 September 2004. These included improved security of tenure through a system of four year tenancy cycles, under Part 4; new tenancy termination procedures, including longer notice periods linked to length of tenancy, under Part 5; a new system of tenancy registration with the PRTB, under Part 7; and the provisions relating to the PRTB itself, under Part 8.

The remaining sections of the Act came into force on 6 December 2004. These included the new dispute resolution service through the PRTB instead of the courts, under Part 6; provisions setting out clearly the statutory tenancy obligations of landlords and tenants, under Part 2; and rent provisions whereby landlords are not entitled to seek a rent greater than the market rate and rent reviews, whether up or down, may not occur more than once a year unless warranted by a substantial change in the accommodation, under Part 3.

The Residential Tenancies Act is lengthy legislation containing 202 sections with some detailed and novel provisions dealing with quite complicated issues, particularly with regard to security of tenure. Since its commencement, the PRTB has strenuously engaged in providing information on the legislative provisions and responded to the thousands of queries we have received about various aspects of the new legislation and about specific lease covenants and other landlord and tenant statutes, which are not, strictly speaking, relevant to the PRTB. We have published a series of leaflets dealing with landlord and tenant obligations, dispute resolution, registration and termination of tenancies. A quick guide, providing an overview of the main provisions of the Residential Tenancies Act, has also been widely disseminated.

The volume of calls to the board from the time of its establishment has been far greater than anyone anticipated. Phone lines are constantly active and we are aware that callers find it difficult to get through. Unfortunately there have also been intermittent problems with the phone system which were outside our control, including, for a considerable period, a fault which caused a "ringing out" tone when all of the lines were engaged. This was particularly frustrating for unsuccessful callers, but has now been resolved. Additional staff has been assigned to the PRTB to deal with queries and improvements have been made to our telephone system to make it easier to get through to our staff. A new, directly accessible PRTB internet site has also made it easier and faster to obtain information, rather than having to go through the Department's website.

The registration requirement in Part 7 of the Act, which replaced the 1996 regulations requiring landlords to register their tenancies with local authorities, has applied since 1 September 2004. Landlords had a period of three months in which to apply to register existing tenancies while applications to register new tenancies are required to be made within one month of their commencement. Instead of the expected fairly even spread of applications during that three month period, the PRTB received a very large volume of applications in late November and December. When large quantities of records came to be inputted on to the computer system, commissioned for tenancy registrations, various technical difficulties came to light. The most notable of these was the inability to automatically generate confirmation notices in a format ready for posting. As a result, a backlog arose in entering registrations on the database and issuing confirmations of registration. Most of the technical difficulties have been resolved at this stage. Registration confirmation letters have now issued to landlords and tenants in respect of 60,000 tenancies and the backlog of registration applications for entry on to the computer system is largely cleared.

A significant number of applications have been sent back or are in the process of being sent back, to the landlords due to missing core essential information. As soon as these areas have been cleared, the extract of the register will be prepared for publication. The extract of data for transfer to local authorities regarding their functional areas will be prepared and staff resources can then be directed at identifying and pursuing non-compliant landlords.

The board is grateful to landlords for their co-operation during this initial period of operating the new registration system. It is very gratified at the relatively high level of compliance by landlords and intends to build from this good compliance base. We will introduce an on-line registration system as soon as possible, which will also require an amendment to the legislation and we hope to get to the stage shortly where current applicants can expect confirmation of registration within a few weeks of application. The board is also currently reviewing the registration form and will consult representative landlords and tenants about changes that may be needed.

Another significant area of PRTB activity is dispute resolution under Part 6 of the Act, which came into operation on 6 December 2004. The PRTB dispute resolution service replaces the courts in respect of the majority of landlord and tenant disputes. The board operates a two-stage dispute resolution process. The first stage consists of mediation, if chosen by both parties, or adjudication otherwise. Both mediation and adjudication are confidential to the parties. The second stage is a public hearing by a tenancy tribunal if the matter is not resolved at the first stage.

At this point, approximately 300 formal applications for dispute resolution services have been referred to the board. In addition, as I already mentioned, there has also been a large number of landlord and tenant problems, including threatened illegal evictions that have been informally resolved by PRTB staff. The majority of referred cases, approximately 60%, are from tenants and so far most have opted for adjudication rather than mediation. The concentration of effort on processing the registration applications and the fact that a high proportion of the dispute applications were received quite recently means that hearings must now be arranged for many cases and arrangements are being made to do so as quickly as possible.

An issue that has arisen in respect of the dispute resolution aspect of the board's work concerns the procedure for enforcement of the determination orders made by the board. The Act provides that where a determination order reflects an adjudicator's determination that has not been appealed by the parties to the dispute, the order is binding on issue to the parties. Where the board's determination order reflects the determination of a tenancy tribunal, set up where the adjudication determination was appealed or mediation was unsuccessful and a party requested a tribunal hearing, there is a 21-day appeal period to the High Court on a point of law only, after which the order is binding.

Section 124 of the Act deals with applications to the Circuit Court for orders directing the respondent to comply with the terms of a determination order of the PRTB. Such applications may be made by a party mentioned in the determination order or by the board if it is satisfied that another party has failed to comply with terms of that order. In practice, it is likely that parties affected by the non-compliance will seek to have the board make the application in the vast majority of such cases. This has been the case in the applications to date. The court must make the order unless it considers that there are substantial reasons for not doing so in respect of matters such as procedural fairness, material considerations, etc. which are listed in the section, or the respondent shows that one of those matters applies to the determination order.

Representatives of the board met the Circuit Court rules committee in March to discuss the approach for dealing with applications under section 124 and for interim or interlocutory injunctions under section 189 of the Act. The board's concern was to ensure that its applications to the court would be dealt with expeditiously, particularly as these would be made in the context of very serious situations under section 189 or having already followed a thorough statutory process in the case of section 124. The committee issued a practice direction, pending amendment of the Circuit Court rules, that section 124 applications are to be made by way of motion on notice and heard on affidavit evidence only, save where otherwise directed by the court.

The board has made two section 124 applications to the Circuit Court to enforce determination orders to date. The second of these is still being processed. The experience with the first application has been difficult. What was envisaged as a single application to the Circuit Court as the final stage in the process has involved a sequence of six separate court appearances by the board with attendant major costs. Although some of the delays and motions were due to difficulties of service of notices on the respondent, the effort required to secure partial enforcement of this order was unsatisfactory and a cause of concern to the board. If the experience with future applications is of a lengthy and expensive process, contrary to the intention of the Oireachtas and the purpose of the legislation as stated in the long title to the Act, the board may find it necessary to recommend to the Minister a review of this aspect of the legislation. An inexpensive, effective and speedy system for resolving disputes between landlords and tenants was one of the key recommendations of the Commission on the Private Rented Sector and the board must strive to achieve that objective.

In conclusion, the PRTB is a start-up organisation and like the vast majority of start-ups, we have had teething difficulties as we strive to become established and provide a good service to our customers during what is a developmental and transitional stage. The commission saw the private rented sector as an area that had been somewhat neglected over several decades and very much in need of modernisation. However, it has come as a surprise to everyone that such a demand for information about all aspects of renting existed. The volume of queries we received has placed big demands on the organisation and has had an impact on the allocation of resources to other functions of the board. We regret the PRTB has not been able to reach the level of customer service to which we aspire, as quickly as we would have liked. I reiterate our commitment to providing a high quality customer service. The board's staff has responded very positively to the challenges that have arisen. Their desire to provide a good service to tenants and landlords and their commitment to the work of the board is very commendable.

While the PRTB's attention up to now has been very much focused on dealing with the initial surge of demands with regard to queries, registration and disputes, as our operations develop we will increasingly become engaged in the provision of other valuable services in the areas of research, analysis, policy advice, the review of the operation of the residential tenancies legislation and making recommendations for any improvements that might be desirable. As systems bed down and board staff and members gain experience on the various facets of the board's work, the PRTB will play an increasingly important role in the private rented sector as a mature and self-reliant State body.

I welcome Mr. Dunne and the director and board member of the PRTB. I am very happy they are here before the committee because it spent a considerable amount of time on the legislation and the lead-up to the legislation. I commend the board on the work it has done to date. This must be acknowledged. It is accepted, and it was always anticipated that there would be teething problems. When the committee debated the legislation, teething problems with the establishment of the board and the new system were anticipated by at least some members.

I am disappointed the board has run into difficulties with the courts, the way in which the Residential Tenancies Act is operating so soon after it was passed and the conclusion that some provisions of the Act must be revisited. It might be prudent if the committee revisited these sections. I know it is a new system but it is not rocket science. It is surprising, given the legal advice available to the Government, that something of this kind would have emerged so quickly. This is something to which the committee should pay some attention.

With regard to the teething problems, is Mr. Dunne saying the board's staff is doing an excellent job but that the board does not have the resources capable of meeting the demand that is clearly present, and that the embargo on recruitment is one of the factors causing problems? Is that what it comes down to?

On registrations, while I appreciate that the number of registrations the board has achieved is approximately double what all of the local authorities combined ever managed to achieve, it is still quite a degree short of the number of tenancies in the country. As I understand it, all landlords had three months to register tenancies with the board. I recall that the commission on the private rented sector, which Mr. Dunne chaired, estimated that there were approximately 135,000 tenancies at that time. It is probably fair to say that this number would probably have increased anyway since the work the commission undertook five or six years ago. The figure of 135,000 was based on information that I think went back to 1997. I do not know whether the board has an estimate of the number of tenancies but it is fair to say the current figure is in excess of 150,000. A total of 80,000 have applied to be registered, which means that half, if not more, of the landlords and tenancies we know of have not yet applied to register those tenancies even though the three month period is over. The board has been concentrating on processing received applications but has it given any thought to plans concerning what is to be done regarding unregistered tenancies?

Mr. Dunne

I wish to make three observations. First, it is wrong at this stage to draw the conclusion that we have and will continue to have difficulties with the courts. The courts have their procedures and arrangements and we need to learn to manage them and our relationship with them. We received the assurance of the then chairman of the committee on the Circuit Court's rules and procedures that it would examine arrangements if we have any problems. It is too early to draw firm conclusions about the nature of the interaction between the board and the courts.

The courts have a valuable function in this area. Through legislation, they must have some oversight of the operations of the board's dispute resolution services. Speaking as a citizen of the State, this is a valid oversight for the courts to have and we would all be happy to see this happen. However, there are procedural and administrative arrangements that we must steer our way through and find the most efficient way of dealing with. The courts must respond and I am sure they will. It is too early to make judgments but if it is concluded that the system is not satisfactory, the board will recommend to the Minister that we revisit the legislative arrangements for dispute resolution.

The Deputy raised the issue of staffing. The embargo applies to permanent staff and the board has been able to employ part-time and contract staff to get it over the hump of the challenge of the initial registration system's challenge, which has been phenomenal. Tackling this issue and answering all of the questions asked by individuals concerning their landlord and tenant issues and about the operation of the law at the same time was a challenge for the board, one that took the board some time to come to terms with. An interim judgment will be made but we will only know how the system operates after a good period of time. I am unsure whether the level of staffing will be a problem once we enter routine arrangements after the initial phase of operation.

The registration matter is an interesting one. The Deputy correctly pointed out that the previous registration only captured approximately 30,000 landlords. A considerably greater number of landlords than this have been registered. The commission on the private residential rented sector identified approximately 137,000 private rented tenancies in the country. This figure has grown since then and there may be approximately 150,000 now. We must note that not all of these need to be registered and that, in the private residential sector, there is always a transitional situation of tenants leaving and going elsewhere. This situation has probably extended somewhat since the time of the commission. There are more voids out there than heretofore. Although there may be 150,000 houses in the private rental sector, the question that must be asked is what proportion of these will be eventually registered by the board. We do not know the answer, which is one of the problems surrounding the residential tenancies sector. We have relatively little information about what is happening. One of the intentions of the registration system is to gather this information and we have set about doing so.

The 60,000 or so registrations is not the final figure. As we handle the registration system and get over its teething troubles, the board will be able to apply its energies to making all landlords compliant in this area. From the board's discussions, the committee can take it as board policy that we intend the majority of landlords to be compliant.

Another important point is that it is in the landlords' interests to register. If landlords do not register there are consequences for them. For example, they cannot access the dispute resolution processes of the board. It will take some time before landlords realise that the best thing to do is register with the board. There is a learning curve involved and ignoring the board is putting landlords in some peril. This matter will correct itself as registering tenants becomes seen to be the right thing to do if one is in the business of renting accommodation.

My question also relates to the registration process. Mr. Dunne's submission states on page 4 that "staff resources can then be directed at identifying and pursuing non-compliant landlords". How will this be done? In the five major cities, particularly in Limerick, the figure for registered landlords was nominal. Less than one fifth of landlords had registered. How will Mr. Dunne pursue this objective?

The Act states that there is a fine of €1,000 for not registering. Not many, if any, landlords have been fined €1,000 for not registering tenants, despite the fact that 100,000 landlords were not registered when this matter was dealt with by the local authorities.

What type of landlords are exempt from registration? Mr. Dunne is making a mistake if he is depending on the goodwill of landlords to correct this situation. What other plans does Mr. Dunne have to ensure non-compliant landlords register?

Mr. Dunne

I will begin by responding to the last point. Perhaps I misled the committee. One is not relying on the goodwill of landlords to register but it is in their own interests to do so. As understanding of the operation of the Act permeates the sector it will become clear that landlords put themselves in peril if they do not register. This does not relate to goodwill, rather it is a learning issue for landlords. At present, landlords are not clear on the consequences of not registering but once this becomes clear, they will register. We will not be relying on the goodwill of landlords because those without goodwill would not register and the board would have to pursue them.

It will do so once it gets over its initial workload. It can pursue landlords by looking over records from the Department of Social and Family Affairs of properties that were registered in the past. It will also have information from tenants that come to the board to discuss disputes involving landlords. Landlords who do not register are also likely to be the ones who come to the attention of the board through tenants' complaints. In time the board will find other ways of getting information on private rented properties. A procedure exists in the legislation to prosecute landlords who have not registered tenancy. Many tenancies are exempt from these regulations. Property let as part of an employment contract does not have to be registered and is not under the operations of the board.

Why is that?

Mr. Dunne

They must register but they are not subject to the part 4 regulations. There is much ignorance on this matter. It may be that people feel a contract of tenancy is dependent on a contract of employment and consequently that they do not have to register tenancy. Misunderstanding of these aspects of tenancy registration procedures exist. Combined business and family lettings are also exempt as are landlords of spouses or parents or inter-family tenancies. Many of those may exist because people from the country in particular have a tradition of buying accommodation in Dublin for their children who might want to go to university in the city. Other tenancies, such as those to which the old rent control and restrictions Acts apply, are not included either. Many categories of tenancies do not need to be registered; however we do not know the level. I am not sure if I answered that question. I believe I have. Was there another question?

I am not convinced about the manner in which unregistered tenancies will be pursued. It will not work if the Private Residential Tenancies Board depends on difficulties between landlords and tenants, as many never have difficulties. If they do not register how will they be traced?

Mr. Dunne

We will publish a list of all registered tenancies and will encourage people to report those that are unregistered. If, as time goes by, we have the resources, we can walk the streets and examine the numbers of properties with doorbells. I cannot comment on how it will happen. The only important point is that the board will find ways of doing it. One significant way is to ensure landlords understand it is in their interest to register tenancies. Heretofore, landlords did not want to engage with the State in any way because on balance it was not an advantage to do so. This legislation has changed that and on balance it is of advantage to the landlord to register the tenancy. That context has changed.

I welcome the board representatives to the committee meeting. While it is heartening to see that good initial work has been done, I have concerns. The chairman referred to difficulties with regard to the public service embargo in his introductory remarks and that is a fundamental concern. This is a brand new institution meant to oversee an important sector of the housing market. I would be disturbed if it was not getting the full force of the State's support. I hope we can support the board in some way to ensure it gets the amount and quality of staff it needs to ensure members of the public, landlords and tenants alike have full confidence in the system. That is fundamental and crucial to the board's existence. As a result of that I am also concerned about delays in processing applications, and that initial recourse to the courts has led to difficulties with section 124 referrals.

I take some comfort from the chairman's remarks that the board will become more streamlined over time as the courts get to grips with the legislation. I hope the issue of on-line registration can be resolved quickly and this committee has a role to play in considering amendments to the legislation. Landlords are busy people and a system whereby details of tenancies could be updated on-line would make life much easier for everybody, tenants and landlords alike.

My first question is one that has already been asked in several different ways. Approximately 60,000 tenancies are fully registered out of 80,000 applications, which shows some disparity. Nonetheless, the overriding question is how many tenancies exist and how many have been registered? This board was established to eliminate the cowboys from the rental sector. I want to know that the cowboys have been firmly headed off at the pass. The figures I heard this afternoon do not convince me that has been done. What will we do to deal with the significant number of tenancies that have not been registered? Do we have good up to date statistical information from the Central Statistics Office on this matter? I suspect we do not and the situation is rapidly changing.

I would hate to think there are still landlords who abuse the system, do not register, hold tenants to ransom and deal with people in a way which we had hoped this legislation would eradicate. I am particularly mindful of the significant numbers of non-Irish people who have moved here over the last year. I attended a presentation recently at which I learned that in the 12 months to April 2005, an extra 50,000 Polish and 20,000 Lithuanian citizens have moved to Ireland. It is safe to assume that a majority of those people are in the private rental sector. They are a particularly vulnerable group who, as Europeans, we should do our utmost to support. Perhaps the Private Residential Tenancies Board has a role to play in this regard. It could make leaflets available — either on-line or through its offices — explaining, in simple language, the rights of such immigrant tenants. I would like to see the board undertake such work.

I have looked at the board's website and found the information therein was expressed in rather legalistic terms. While I understand that the board must conform with the law, it would be better if the obligations and rights of tenants and landlords were explained in simple English, so that newly arrived immigrants can understand the situation here. A list of simple facts, either on the website or in leaflet form in various languages, would be most useful.

Can a member of the public or a prospective tenant find out from the board whether a tenancy or a landlord is registered? If, for example, I knocked on the door of a building and was told that there was a flat available to rent, can I find out if the landlord or the address is registered? Several people have asked me this question recently and I am not sure what the situation is in this regard. I do not know if it is possible, although I hope so.

Can Mr. Dunne tell us how many threatened evictions the board has dealt with? The information he has supplied indicates that the board has handled over 400 queries, but how many prospective evictions has it dealt with; how many were averted; and in how many did it act as mediator?

Now that the board has solved some of its initial teething problems, is it in a position to launch a public information campaign on its work? Will it have the time and resources to become involved in research? One of the heartening aspects of the legislation for me was the emphasis placed on research. I would like to see the board conducting door-to-door surveys on particular streets to ascertain whether its figures tally with the actual numbers of private rental tenancies. I hope it will be possible to deal with the so-called cowboys but the jury is still out on that and I am interested in the views of Mr. Dunne on that issue.

Mr. Dunne

The board was concerned about the issue of staffing because it was faced with an enormous increase in its workload arising from the enactment of the legislation, both in terms of the numbers of registration forms and queries it received. Staffing levels were a constant issue at board meetings. The Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government has made representations to the Department of Finance regarding the correct establishment of the board and I am confident that the staffing issues will be addressed. That is all I can say on the matter at present but I welcome the support expressed by the committee in that regard.

Registration is a common theme in the questions posed. It is important to note that properties are no longer registered. The board, through the legislation, requires that tenancies are registered. A difference exists between the tenancy and the property. Somebody cannot knock on a door to determine whether a property is registered because the property is not registered. The agreement between the landlord and tenant on a tenancy is registered. Every tenant will know whether he or she is registered because the landlord should ask questions which will be filled out on the form and the tenant will receive confirmation from the board. The assumption is that one is not registered without confirmation of registration and should therefore seek information from the board and landlord. That represents a safeguard. A tenancy is registered subsequent to being entered into. It will not be possible to determine whether the landlord is registered; the board registers tenancies rather than landlords.

The consequence is that it does not matter from the tenant's perspective if a tenant occupies a property but the landlord does not register it. The landlord cannot hold the tenant to ransom and cannot interact with the tenant other than through the board. If the landlord attempts to take any action of which the tenant disapproves, the tenant can complain to the board. The tenant has security of tenure. His or her terms of tenancy cannot be adjusted at that point without regard to the board's decision. This is a significant matter which people may be overlooking. If the tenancy is not registered and a dispute arises, the tenant can come to the board to make a complaint. The landlord can do nothing about the tenant and is in a lacuna. The first step the landlord must take is to register. The board can proceed with the tenant's complaint as far as a termination order and subsequently through the courts but the landlord is in an exposed position. This is a crucial point which we will have to share with the public as soon as possible by means of an information campaign.

This legislation has fundamentally changed the nature of the relationship between landlord and tenant in the residential sector in ways that people probably do not yet fully understand. It altered the balance of power between landlords and tenants in favour of tenants. Tenants are not unprotected if the landlord does not register the tenancy. While I understand that Deputies are concerned about the question of registration and may conclude from the lack of registration that the tenancies are unprotected, registration does not make any difference to the protections offered to tenants by the legislation. Regardless of whether the tenancy is registered, they may access those protections.

The focus on registration has altered. Formerly, registration was one of the tools needed to chase landlords. That tool is no longer needed if a tenant has a problem. The registration is in place to address some other issues. It will permit more efficient resolution of disputes because it requires that a number of basic pieces of information be recorded. It also garners information so that we know the number of tenancies in the private residential sector. The commission found a paucity of information from its investigation of this sector. We do not know how the private residential sector is composed in terms of the number and characteristics of tenants. The intention behind the registration system was to ascertain that information. It was less a tool for the board's interaction with landlords and more a means of collecting information. Members may be assured that the legislation transformed the nature of the relationship between landlord and tenant, in that cowboy and unprofessional landlords will find that operating within this environment has become more uncomfortable.

On threatening evictions, the board established a research committee, which will use the database of information to examine this issue. I expect we will describe our findings in the annual report and through the release of information about the characteristics of the private rental sector. We will put that on the website.

On the question of evictions, it is difficult to identify where one stops in eviction. In this country, now, no landlord can or should repossess a property without the sanction of the board. With the agreement of the tenant, of course, the tenant can surrender his or her tenancy. The notion that tenants may be evicted or moved on is gone under this legislation. If a landlord tries to move a tenant the board will intervene, as it has done in a couple of cases, and tell the landlord, in effect to reinstall the tenant and talk to the board. That is the norm unless the circumstances are extremely difficult.

The number of questions about evictions that has arisen is running at about two per week, on average. The only reason the board has not gone to court is that in eviction cases the board tells the landlord that it will get an injunction to ensure the tenant will be reinstalled and the cost of defending such an action would be much more than the cost of the damage the tenant might inflict on the property, so the landlord is convinced to put the tenant back in. As soon as the procedures in hand become public knowledge we will quickly see evictions becoming a thing of the past.

I have one last point about the influx of Europeans or non-Europeans. Are there any plans to provide information in languages other than Irish or English?

Mr. Dunne

That is an area of which the board is extremely conscious. A number of board members have raised that issue, particularly as regards the dispute resolution process. The board is very conscious that quite a number of problems that emerge in the private residential sector involve tenants whose first language, perhaps, is not English and who do not understand some of the rules and regulations. When such people come to the board to have their disputes heard, we are very conscious that they need support.

We will definitely move to provide information in languages that are not, perhaps, the first and second tongues of this country. That is a good, well-made point and we can and intend to do that. It will, no doubt, come to pass that a significant proportion of those in the private residential sector will be people who have come into Ireland. They will not be people who have been here and moved out to find accommodation. The first port of call for virtually every immigrant is, undoubtedly, the private residential sector. We will take those points on board.

I welcome the board, as represented by Mr. Dunne and his staff. My experience to date, in the contact I have had with the board has been excellent. We have always been given the information and help we needed.

I circulated information on what the board does, the powers it has etc. throughout a number of estates in the town of Drogheda. There were some interesting responses. One of the most irate was from a man who knocked at my door at six o'clock in the evening, to ask whether I was accusing him of being a bad tenant. Obviously, I told him I was not, so he asked me why I had circulated the letter. I made it clear, thereafter, that it was being circulated to all areas. People are pleased that the board is there and that it is doing a good job.

I want to tease out a few issues that have come to my notice since. One concerns anti-social behaviour, where the local authority is the landlord in the first instance. Either it lets the property directly to tenants or it has leased or is about to lease a particular property. There appear to be ongoing difficulties with some local authorities with which I am in contact. I keep getting the same complaints.

While I welcome the fact that anti-social behaviour officers are appointed to a number of local authorities, the problem persist. What advice, if any, does the board offer to or what direct involvement does it have with local authorities in that regard? With regard to a new scheme the local authorities are introducing they effectively will be the tenants of many thousands of properties they will take over, right around the country. Instead of the traditional relationship between the individual and the landlord, that will change to the local authority and the landlord. What legal status will the tenant have? What assistance may he or she get from the PRTB? It will be a big change in the private rented sector.

I get many complaints from people living in apartment complexes. When they sign a contract to rent or lease a property, the issue of annual charges comes up. Residents complain that they are being charged too much. Others feel they are not charged enough to create a provision for a sinking fund for future problems. Does the PRTB have any opinion on that? I am not just talking about rent, but about the up-keep and maintenance of common areas. A number of apartment complexes are gated complexes. Previously, an apartment complex with free access obliged the local authority to maintain the road, the footpath and so on. In gated complexes, there is no liability on the local authority. The provision of the sinking fund, therefore, needs to be much greater as these common private areas must be maintained.

Mr. Dunne

I thank the Deputy for his kind remarks. They are very welcome. When the public is provided with information, it often misinterprets that information. I am sure when the Deputy gave people information on the PRTB, he was not trying to give them a hint.

Absolutely. Some of them were delighted.

Mr. Dunne

I am not surprised if they were wondering whether they were bad tenants. It points to a certain level of ignorance about the operation of the board.

There is provision in the legislation whereby anti-social behaviour can be sanctioned. That is only where the tenant and the landlord are in the private rented sector. If the person is a tenant of local authorities, the provisions in this law do not apply. There are other provisions under the operation of the housing Acts that apply to local authority tenants. There is an interesting provision in the Act, which has not received much attention. It provides that third parties can make complaints about the behaviour of tenants. A landlord is under an obligation to have the tenant abide by the terms and conditions of the letting.

I know of a case of a local authority that has tenants in a private house. The third parties are those who are living in the area and they are making complaints. There has been no resolution of that problem.

Mr. Dunne

Our remit does not apply to social housing in that sense.

They are on the local authority housing list and they have been placed in this house. The local authority is paying the rent for them.

Mr. Dunne

They would then come under the operation of the Private Residential Tenancies Act.

That is the problem.

Mr. Dunne

If a tenant is behaving in an anti-social manner and a third party makes a complaint, the board has the power to look at that. That issue can be brought to finality.

How does the third party rectify the problem of anti-social behaviour by tenants next door in a private rented property?

Mr. Dunne

The third party makes a complaint to the board.

What happens then?

Mr. Dunne

Having been through the procedure of trying to explain to the tenant that his or her behaviour is anti-social——

Let us say that the third party cannot find the landlord, or the third party tracks down the landlord, but he or she does nothing. Gardaí do not do anything on many occasions. How does the practicality work out?

Mr. Dunne

It is an interesting point. It is clear that somebody will own the property and a tenant will be in occupation. Assuming the tenant is behaving in an anti-social way, the neighbours are complaining and the landlord is doing nothing about it, the third party should first make representations to the tenant. If the normal interaction between two human beings does not work, as it might not, the procedure is to then come to the board. The board will take the representation as a complaint and deal with it. It will have to do research, if necessary, to identify the parties, including the landlord. Somebody owns all property and one can find out who the owner is. The complaint would go into the normal dispute resolution processes of the board. That process would come to fruition and could result in a determination order, which the courts could enforce.

Drogheda is a pilot area so other areas might not have the same problems. However, the issue there is that the local authority is housing the tenants. In other words, the arrangement is between the owner of the rented accommodation and the local authority who put the tenant into the house and it is third parties who are complaining. There does not seem to be any resolution of this difficulty.

Mr. Dunne

If the tenant complained of is in the private residential sector, the third parties should come to the board.

Would that be the case if the local authority is not doing the business? Will that happen to all of the new arrangements with the third party?

Mr. Dunne

Is the Deputy referring to matters under the new rental accommodation assistance scheme?

Mr. Dunne

Those tenants are within the private residential sector. Their locus of complaint is to the board.

That will be a major area from now on.

Mr. Dunne

I hope not.

I can see it happening. I can see it coming at us like an express train. I wish to be clear on this point so I can explain it to others. Given a problem with a tenant placed by a local authority in private accommodation, where the local authority pays the landlord for the accommodation and the tenant pays the rent he or she would have paid for a local authority house, if the local authority does not solve the problem, the person with the problem goes to the PRTB.

Mr. Dunne

There will be a landlord. The landlord has an obligation to act in a way towards a tenant to keep the tenant compliant with the Act. The Act contains a provision which states all tenants must not act in an anti-social way. While I cannot recall the exact phraseology in the Act, it contains a relevant procedure.

Has the board a clear role?

Mr. Dunne

We have a clear role. The board will be delighted to attempt to fulfil that.

A further point not understood at large is that the legislation will bring about major change in the culture of private residential accommodation. One of the issues for the private residential tenancies commission was that a landlord who had invested in property where a tenant was misbehaving had very little sanction over that tenant. The landlord had to go to court, which was expensive. One of the intentions of the commission was to bring about a situation whereby landlords were provided with some mechanism for dealing with that issue. It was intended to "respectable-ise" landlordism.

There will always be cases where tenants do not behave appropriately and landlords must have a means of dealing with them. That is written into the legislation. While there will be cases where tenants will misbehave, I am sure this can be stopped or sanctioned in some way once this legislation is introduced. I hope it will become part and parcel of a new mindset that if one is in private rented accommodation and behaves in an anti-social way, a system will be in place to stop that behaviour. Interestingly, it will become part of our understanding that tenants in private rented accommodation must behave to a higher standard vis-à-vis their neighbours than residents living in their own accommodation. That is an important point.

If a person owns a house, neighbours cannot do anything if there is a problem. Neighbours can drive everybody mad. That is a weakness.

Mr. Dunne

It may be. However, an interesting point is that people often fear that neighbouring accommodation might be rented into the private rented sector. This was a concern brought to the commission at the time.

It is still a concern.

Mr. Dunne

Yes, it is. That provision intended to bring about a situation whereby a resident living beside rented accommodation, the tenants of which are causing trouble, will have some sort of redress he or she did not have heretofore.

What of apartment complexes?

Mr. Dunne

I have a personal interest in that area, which is outside the operation of the Residential Tenancies Act. There are some problems in this regard. The Act brought in certain measures to support tenants in that they are now entitled to the type of information their landlord gets from the management companies in the apartment blocks. There is transparency from the tenancy through the landlord back to the apartment management and managing agents.

The cost of providing services to the block is a matter for the management company and it traditionally delegates this to the managing agents. I am familiar with problems in this area from other work I do. It is a matter for the management companies and the managing agents and not for the board, other than that the payment of service charges may be delegated to the tenant. In those instances, the tenant must pay the charges, as they are part of the contract. The board does not have much function in this respect regarding apartment blocks and gated communities. It does not operate that way and the board would not deal with that type of question, which is becoming an emerging problem here.

The board's liability and role is solely in respect of a good or bad tenant and not costs or problems. Let us imagine I am in an apartment that is private rented accommodation and the management company wishes to increase the fee for the maintenance of the total common area. I must pay this as part of my rent. Am I correct in understanding that the board does not have a role in such a dispute?

Mr. Dunne

In respect of a contract regarding an apartment block or a gated community, the tenant has occupation of a property and the landlord has contracted to collect a rent that is inclusive of service charges paid to the landlord. The Deputy said the tenant might have some concerns about the cost.

I am referring to the extra fee charged for common areas.

Mr. Dunne

If there are separate bills, the tenant can find out what the landlord is charged for the service. He or she can get that information. The rent will normally be paid separately. However, the landlord will often cover the cost and charge it to the tenant in the rent. It depends on the market rate. If the tenant thinks the rent charged for the property is in excess of the market rate, taking into account that it includes service charges, it is a matter of dispute and there is procedure in the legislation to examine it. The board does not have the power to adjudicate between apartment owners, management companies and managing agents about the appropriate level of service charges. That is outside the provisions of the legislation.

I welcome Mr. Dunne and other members of the PRTB and thank them for their most informative and interesting presentation. Among the board's many functions is the welcome publication of good practice guidelines that outline both tenant's and landlord's obligations. It should be translated into other languages to accommodate the influx of people from other nations into Ireland in the past decade. The board receives a huge number of queries from different sectors of the community, which is possibly because people do not understand the guidelines.

Regarding improved security of tenure through a system of four-year tenancy cycles, some tenants use this against the landlord to prevent inspections of property. If one owns a property it is important to have the right to inspect it for damage from time to time. Tenants can say that the Act protects them from people infringing on their privacy. However, a landlord or landlady is entitled to inspect their property. I know of one case with the longer period, where tenants left three weeks before they were due to leave and the house was totally wrecked. It will cost something like €27,000 to refurbish this house, given the extent of the damage caused. Landlords have rights as do tenants. The obligations of both the tenants and the landlords are outlined in the guidelines. Perhaps Mr. Dunne will elaborate on this point. He has stated that there are two ways of resolving disputes, one being the resolution service and the other being the tenancy tribunal. If that fails, are the courts then the only option?

To return to another point raised previously in respect of the registration of landlords, a census of population is due next year. Would it be possible to make representations to improve the format of the census form to allow a line to have "registered tenant" or simply "tenant" on that form? I again thank Mr. Dunne.

Mr. Dunne

I thank the Senator for his kind remarks. Clearly, the board will publish good practice guidelines and they will be improved as the situation evolves. The board intends also to examine the issue mentioned in the Act of providing a standard model lease that can be used by landlords and tenants. We have had an enormous number of queries. My background is in understanding property economics. A French economist named Jean-Baptiste Say suggested that when one provides a service, one creates a demand for it. I can certainly state that in the provision of information about the private residential tenancies sector, the board has verified Say's Law that if one supplies a service there will be a demand for it, in that many people rang the board with queries about their circumstances under the Residential Tenancies Act. In many ways, this is what caused the problems for the board as it was inundated with personal queries at the start. This is a good thing that I do not denigrate, and the board is quite happy for landlords to contact it. This is what the board was established to do although I was somewhat surprised by the volume of inquiries the board received.

Four-year tenancy cycles are built into the law and are now the norm. If a tenant is in occupation of a property in excess of six months, he or she is entitled to remain there for up to four years and have security of tenure for it. The board considers that to be a good thing. It changes the nature of the agreement whereby a tenant now has some degree of security about being able to occupy a house for an extended period while heretofore, letting was, at best, on an annual basis. Clearly, when one gives one's property away, as a landlord does to a tenant, the property must be maintained. There is provision in the legislation to give the landlord an entitlement to inspect the property periodically. At the same time, it must be stated that a landlord cannot overdo it because there is also an obligation on a landlord to allow a tenant quiet enjoyment. If a tenant or a landlord feels the arrangement between them is not working, he or she can complain to the board and some sort of a positive adjudication will be made on the matter. Hence, under the legislation, landlords have the right to inspect the property and tenants must respect that.

On the point raised about wrecking houses, it is clear that being a landlord carries responsibilities as well as benefits. One of the responsibilities is that one must manage one's tenancy. If one has early indications that tenants are misbehaving, I recommend that landlords take action. The way to so do is to come to the board and make a complaint about the tenant. Naturally, the landlord would need some evidence, but there is a procedure whereby action can be taken by complaining to the board. The board would like to reach the situation where that kind of behaviour is simply unacceptable and that someone who becomes a tenant takes his or her responsibilities as a tenant seriously. Landlords should complain about such behaviour. That was a serious loss to that landlord. The wider problem is that if this gets around and people begin to feel that investing in property is a higher risk than they perhaps felt previously, that will reduce investment in the private rented sector. If investment in the private rented sector is reduced, rents will increase and tenants will lose out. It is in the interests of a good operating private residential sector that we do not have these kinds of risks for landlords and that where they exist landlords have a means of addressing them.

Regarding dispute resolution, the courts have moved out of this picture for perhaps, the substantial number of cases. If a tenant or landlord has a problem and they are in dispute, they must go to the PRTB, except in a number of circumstances specified in the Act. The idea landlords and tenants have, that if they get into dispute with each other, they must resolve it by going to the courts is an old idea. This is not the way the world operates any more; they must come to the PRTB. If the PRTB issues a determination order and either of the parties to it do not comply with it, the PRTB, or one of the parties, can go to the courts to make the non-compliant party comply with the specifications in the determination order. This is the only point at which the courts come into operation. We mentioned earlier the slight difficulty we have in getting into the courts in that way. It is a learning curve and relates to procedural issues. However, both landlords and tenants must come to the PRTB, which has replaced the courts as the place to go for disputes between landlords and tenants in the private rented sector.

I thank Mr. Dunne for appearing before the committee today. In my work as a public representative, I am aware of the teething problems of the PRTB. The board has received some adverse publicity about that. I, therefore, congratulate Mr. Dunne on addressing the teething problems in an up-front and frank manner and describing how the PRTB plans to deal with them. The committee would like to keep in touch with Mr. Dunne with regard to staffing issues and any new legislation the PRTB requires, particularly with regard to online registration and determination orders. We look forward to having ongoing contact with the PRTB to ensure that it fulfils its mandate.

Mr. Dunne

I thank the Chairman for his remarks. When I started out on this, I thought there would be a greater volume of complaints about the board because once a forum is offered in which people can make known their views or complaints, that often happens. We have had some adverse publicity but perhaps not as much as one might have thought four years ago when we set out on this journey.

The joint committee adjourned at 4.05 p.m. until 11 a.m. on Tuesday, 19 July 2005.

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