JOINT COMMITTEE ON EUROPEAN AFFAIRS debate -
Wednesday, 13 Oct 2004

Visit of Bulgarian Delegation.

Chairman

I welcome our Bulgarian colleagues. It is only seconds since I departed as Fine Gael spokesman on foreign affairs, and this is my first occasion to welcome a group. This probably will be my last meeting as Chairman of the committee. I presume the relevant changes will be made in due course.

I welcome Professor Ognian Gerdjikov, Mrs. Darinka Stantcheva, Mr. Ivo Atanasov, Mrs. Kina Adreva, Mr. Hasan Ademov and Mr. Nikolay Nikolov who are accompanied by the Bulgarian ambassador who is well known to us. We hope to welcome Bulgaria in the not too distant future as a full member of the European Union. It is a great privilege to have the Speaker of the Bulgarian Parliament at this meeting. I invite him to make some opening comments. We can then have an exchange of views and questions from members. As I am aware that our guests' next appointment is at 3.15 p.m., we will conclude at about 3 p.m.

Professor Ognian Gerdjikov

I thank the Chairman very much. It is a great pleasure to be here today. I am pleased to see ambassadors of EU member states here. I thank everyone for the support that they have rendered and continue to render to us on our road to membership of the European Union, our main foreign policy goal. It was reported in June in Brussels that we had temporarily closed the negotiation chapters. We received a very hopeful regular report from the European Commission last week and expect that on 17 December we will receive a date for the signing of the accession treaty which we hope will be signed at the beginning of 2005. That will allow us, on 1 January 2007, together with Romania, to become a fully fledged member state of the European Union.

We are aware that there is a long road ahead. In that regard, the regular report contains some remarks and recommendations. However, I am convinced that the European Commission would offer recommendations, not only to acceding countries but also, if necessary, all member states. We have a responsible and committed attitude to all of the recommendations or observations regarding certain flaws that have been noticed. This will give us yet another occasion to join together the efforts of all the political parties and institutions to fulfil the commitment made. My colleagues and I are ready to take questions, if there are any.

Deputy Quinn

I will be brief and hope my brevity will not be confused with simplistic analysis.

I welcome the delegation. We hope Bulgaria will meet its target date for accession of 2007. I have two observations about our experience which may be of value. First, Ireland has been a member of the European Union for 30 years. During the first 20 years, there was no sign of the Celtic tiger or success. Membership is no guarantee of success. Second, Ireland has been an independent state for approximately 80 years. During the first ten years of our independence in the 1920s, even though we were part of an established democracy, there were serious problems with corruption. The new state struggled very hard to establish an independent, non-political Civil Service at national and local level. Despite the title sometimes attributed to us, we are not a nation of saints and scholars.

One of the reasons we have attracted foreign direct investment to this country is our governance was transparent and our system of administration pretty much non-corrupt. As a country that endured similar difficulties long in the past, these are impediments to progress that only Bulgaria can resolve.

Professor Gerdjikov

I thank the Deputy for the observation and the question hidden within. We have to admit that we have a corruption issue. This is also an issue in different shapes and forms in other countries. However, the major action we must take is to not allow corruption to infect and affect the whole of society. The level of corruption needs to be minimised as much as possible. This is one of the aims of the incumbent government but achieving it will not be a simple task. The Bulgarian Government has taken and continues to take measures to fight corruption. The main targets of these measures are the administration and the justice system.

As regards the justice and courts system, we have passed the first amendment to the Bulgarian constitution since it was adopted in 1991. This amendment relates to the immunity and mandate of the work of the magistrates. I hope it will work towards limiting, curbing and fighting corruption in the justice and courts system. There will be a second amendment to the constitution that will need to be passed in view of our future membership of the European Union.

I will now defer to my colleagues, some of whom may wish to add to what I have said.

Senator Quinn

I welcome the delegation to Leinster House and I hope we will soon welcome Bulgaria to the European Union. I am interested in comparing Ireland and Bulgaria as Deputy Quinn has. Though Bulgaria's population is twice that of Ireland, there are similarities. Was it an easy decision to support the United States in going into Iraq, particularly when Bulgaria has lost troops there? Was arriving at such a decision easy or did it tear the country apart?

One important element in the Irish economy's good performance in the last ten years is the low corporate tax rate, making Ireland attractive to outside investors. Our tax rate stands at 12.5% while Bulgaria's stands at 19.5%. Will Bulgaria follow the Irish lead in this direction?

Deputy Carey

I welcome the delegation and its report to the committee. It highlights human trafficking as a significant issue that needs to be addressed by Bulgaria. Another issue is the unsatisfactory treatment of minority rights in Bulgaria. What measures will be taken to meet the standards required by the EU?

Another matter of concern is the recent case where Bulgarian nationals were sentenced to death in Libya. How does the delegation believe Ireland and other EU member states can address this issue, particularly when it appears those Libyan nationals involved in the case escaped without penalty?

Deputy Ó Snodaigh

I congratulate Bulgaria for closing negotiations on EU entry and hopefully the timeframe will be maintained by the EU. When I visited Bulgaria last year, I met a number of ministers and I noted the huge enthusiasm for the EU and the challenges ahead. Ireland's history has much in common with Bulgaria's and we can learn much from each other. Bulgaria has the opportunity to learn from mistakes made in Ireland but also from successes, such as the Celtic tiger. Huge opportunities in agriculture and industry will exist for Bulgaria from EU membership. When I visited an international trade fair in Plovdiv, I noted enthusiasm in promoting Bulgarian tourism and foreign industry investing there. Hopefully, the delegation's trip to Ireland will assist them in learning lessons from us.

What steps have been taken to rebuild the agricultural sector that is struggling to change? What is the delegation's view of Turkey's application for EU membership?

Senator Lydon

Dobre doshli Dublin. The committee has been presented with a comprehensive report on progress towards Bulgaria's accession to the EU which raised many critical questions. I compliment and congratulate Bulgaria on its work in meeting the goals and objectives that were set by the EU. Dobri pojelania za pregovrite. I look forward to visiting Bulgaria.

Senator Ormonde

I welcome the delegation and wish Bulgaria well in its accession to the EU in 2007. I find it difficult to follow my colleague on my left and his competency in Bulgarian. I am delighted that there is a Bulgarian Women's Party and that it represents 26% of the national vote. Has the party separate issues that it pursues or do all parties represent women? Do the other parties agree with the issues raised by the Bulgarian Women's Party?

Deputy Sexton

I welcome the delegation and thank it for its responses. I congratulate Bulgaria on its progress towards accession given the task which appeared remote to all economists when first mooted. Despite this, the delegation has acknowledged that Bulgaria has some way to go. However, I believe Bulgaria will confound its critics and arrive at the accession objectives on the date agreed. Bulgaria's macro-economic and structural reform polices have been praised by the IMF.

The delegation already addressed the judicial reforms. Is the delegation concerned by the EU's response to Bulgaria's ignoring of the moratorium on the adoption of children? Will it interfere with Bulgarian accession to the EU in 2007?

Senator Bradford

I welcome the delegation. For 50 years, Bulgaria lived under a communist system of centralised planning and state enterprise. Now, as it is about to enter the EU and with the flow of resources that will follow, is the delegation satisfied that it has a sufficient business culture with a spirit of entrepreneurship to build the economy?

Professor Gerdjikov

With the number of questions asked, we should stay with the committee for longer and not leave tonight. Everyone in the world was concerned with the Iraq issue. When backing the international coalition spearheaded by the US, Bulgaria was convinced that this was necessary for Iraq itself because of the dictatorship and its infringement of human rights and freedoms. As a part of the world's anti-terrorism coalition and as a democracy, we decided we could contribute to the restoration of democracy in Iraq. We are aware of Ireland's position on the issue. It is against all military unions and is a neutral like Switzerland. We commend Ireland on this stance but Bulgaria has its own interests in Iraq.

Bulgaria is a creditor of Iraq in the amount of $1.7 billion, 12% of Bulgaria's GDP, which is why we have strong economic interests there. We hope that when the Iraqi democratic government becomes operational, we will receive part of the resources owed to us. Iraq must be a sovereign state and democratic elections must be held for it to take control of its own affairs.

Regarding the Bulgarian Parliament's position on Iraq, there were only four votes among the 240 members of the unicameral parliament against the decision to support the US-led coalition. There are those in Bulgaria who are against supporting the coalition, but this is a minority group.

We are following Ireland's lead in reducing corporate tax. Before, corporate tax was high, but now it stands at 19.5% and it is aimed to reduce it further to 15%. It is a consistent Bulgarian Government policy to reduce taxation.

There are problems with human trafficking and minorities in Bulgaria. I believe that Mrs. Stantcheva can answer this question better as she is member of two committees on foreign and security policies.

Mrs. Darinka Stantcheva

I thank the committee for the opportunity to answer on minorities and the equal footing on which they are placed in Bulgarian society. One political criterion for EU membership is the official attitude to minorities and the equal footing on which they are placed. Bulgaria has met the requirement in providing equality for minorities and has passed an anti-discrimination Act. In the near future, a committee will be established to deal with the Act's implementation. The main goal of the line ministries is to raise the standards of living among the minorities. The Government has established various programmes and schemes, including training and retraining, that will secure employment for the unemployed in the minorities.

Another government goal is equal access to education. All of these issues are interrelated and will receive a comprehensive solution. An opportunity must be given for the development of the different indigenous cultures of the minorities. Here non-governmental organisations and the charities can play a large role in supporting the process. There are many steps and measures that can be taken. However, we believe most of the main actions and measures have already been undertaken. We rely on the development of various initiatives and projects related to the minorities.

Professor Gerdjikov

I thank Mrs. Stantcheva for her answer. My decision in selecting her to accompany me on this trip has been justified.

Mrs. Andreva will speak on trafficking and women's issues. She is a member of the opposition, but will provide the correct answers.

Mrs. Kina Andreva

I will add to Professor Gerdjikov's comments on Iraq. Bulgaria lived under communist dictatorship for 50 years. There was no freedom of speech and many of the normal freedoms people enjoy were suppressed. We hoped somebody from the outside would help us fight for democracy. The Berlin Wall fell after huge pressure from the UK, the US, and many European countries. We understood better how the Iraqi people felt than so-called old European countries, and that is why it was easier for us to support this initiative.

The best recipe for eliminating human trafficking and other such problems is to improve the economic welfare of the nation. Bulgaria has undertaken serious measures to fight trafficking. It has been criminalised, in that it is considered a crime under the penal code of the country. The government works well with NGOs who have built asylums for the victims of trafficking. Many measures must still be undertaken, but the present policy of the government and parliament is to provide the necessary witness protection which would guarantee continued positive development in this matter.

The Bulgarian Women's Party is not the only political party dealing with the women's agenda. Recently my political party, Democrats for a Strong Bulgaria, introduced a Bill on equal opportunities for men and women which we hope will be passed quickly by the ruling majority.

Mr. Ivo Atanasov

Our delegation holds a unanimous opinion on most of the questions asked. I will only dwell on the questions on which we differ.

I am a representative of the Socialist Party, which was formerly the Communist Party. I am a deputy chair of the parliamentary group. If the polls are correct, we will be the incumbent party next year. The main difference of policy relates to the issue of Iraq. Before the war started, the Bulgarian Parliament voted to support it. We were the only parliamentary group not to support it. The developments in Iraq showed we were right. None of the arguments for starting the war was confirmed. This is not the war of the European Union, neither is it the war of NATO.

In May, when the war ended, we voted with the majority for the reconstruction of Iraq. We have had similar reconstruction missions in many countries, such as Cambodia, Afghanistan, Kosovo and Bosnia. A United Nations resolution gave us the legal ground to participate in the reconstruction of Iraq. Later we were concerned because our troops in Iraq were outside the remit that parliament gave them. Bearing in mind public opinion, which is against the war, we want our troops out of Iraq as soon as possible. We would like democratic elections, a legitimate government, parliament and constitution, and then withdrawal of troops.

Corruption was not invented in Bulgaria. The European Commission resigned because of allegations of corruption. The difference is that in Europe people resign because of corruption, but in Bulgarian nobody resigns. Together we are reducing corruption. We would like to introduce ethics into politics which would eradicate corruption.

Professor Gerjikov

I thank Mr. Atanasov. The committee has been able to witness that Bulgaria is a democratic state. In our parliament, there is an operational and active opposition. We do not differ on main foreign policy goals. Opposition and incumbent parties have a common interest in EU membership.

The situation in Libya is a burning and painful issue for Bulgaria. We are convinced the Bulgarian medics are innocent. This has been proven by the opinion of the best HIV and AIDS experts in the world. However, in order to solve its internal problems, Libya has identified our medics as scapegoats. Libya also wants international recognition. I would like the EU, including Ireland, which has supported us in our just cause in Libya and put pressure on that country to show justice to the Bulgarian medics, to keep up the pressure because there is no greater crime than to convict innocent people.

The next question related to agriculture. I was looking through the programme and the list of participants in search of someone who might be expert in this area. Unfortunately we do not have an expert here on agriculture. I do not believe we will be able to give the committee precise answers. I want, however, to give my personal impressions dating back about a year and a half. I was in Dobroudzha at the time, the region that is considered to be the granary of Bulgaria, for the beginning of the harvest. I was pleased to see the big fields of cereal and grain, state of the art harvesters, etc. This inspired me and was an indication that Bulgarian agriculture had started to revive because we have the climate and the soil to produce high quality produce, fruit, vegetables, cereals, etc. Unfortunately, I am not an expert in this area so I am not able to report on it in greater detail.

The next question was about Turkey's application for membership of the EU. We have been monitoring Turkey's progress on reforms, something that is reflected in the regular report of the Commission. Bulgaria is interested in Turkey becoming a member state because we want neighbours on all sides who are also part of the European Union. That is why we support the efforts of all south-eastern European countries applying for members. I hope that in December the EU will announce a date for the start of negotiations with Turkey. Of course, it has to move along swiftly if it is to meet all the conditions for membership laid down in the Copenhagen criteria. However, we are ready to share our experiences with Turkey and with all other countries which are pro-European.

I have nothing to add to the answer that was given as regards the women's party. On the moratorium on international adoptions, I do not believe this is an obstacle to Bulgaria's progress to accession. If my colleagues would care to add something on this, briefly, perhaps they would do so.

Mrs. Stantcheva

One of the priorities about social policy in the country is providing good care for the so-called institutionalised children. Usually, the children who are placed in these institutions are the targets for adoption within the country and internationally. Most of these children come from socially disadvantaged families and a large number of them are orphans. Under Bulgarian legislation three rejections are required as regards adoption within the country, after which permission may be given for an international adoption attempt. The government is trying to create conditions for reducing the numbers of children institutionalised. It offers a good many programmes as regards foster care for the resocialisation or reintegration of these children so that they may grow up in their natural environment. That is the general trend.

Professor Gerdjikov

I thank Mrs. Stantcheva. There was a last question about the entrepreneurial culture and the development of business, bearing in mind that for 45 years we had a centralised planned economy. I want to assure everybody that Bulgarians have always possessed an entrepreneurial spirit. History has demonstrated this. I cannot reach back too far into history. However, when we gave up the centralised planned economy at the beginning of the transition to democracy, with the adoption of the commercial act, thousands of Bulgarians set up their own businesses and started to trade. Many of these were successful, which is reflected in the good macro-economic climate the country currently enjoys. Many other things have to be done, but I believe we have this spirit within us.

Ladies and gentlemen, these were the answers to the questions put by the committee. We hope we have not failed the exam but have passed it.

Chairman

I would like to conclude with these few words for our colleagues from the Bulgarian Parliament. When Ireland joined the EEC its per capita income was approximately 56% that of the other nine members. As an island on the periphery of Europe we have benefited greatly from the single market. Access for Bulgaria should be even better than it was for us so the future augurs well for the Bulgarian economy. At one stage our public finances were in a vicious circle; then we got into a virtuous circle. Controlling the public finances was a major issue.

As we all know 60 million Europeans died in the first half of the last century and the European Union aims to maintain peace and stability and the resulting prosperity. It aims for integration, not assimilation, whereby we all share our different cultures, religions and beliefs and learn how to live side by side. We look forward to working with Bulgaria in the European Union in the near future.

As a national Parliament, through this committee and a sub-committee of this committee, we scrutinise in advance all draft regulations, directives and decisions and decide which of them need to be examined in greater detail by Parliament. We also meet the Minister for Foreign Affairs each month before he goes to the General Affairs and External Relations Council. A national parliament can have a proactive role in examining and contributing to the role of the European Union. Thank you for your visit, which I hope has been a fruitful experience for you.

Professor Gerdjikov

Thank you very much. I thank everybody here for listening so attentively and for being so kind to us. Before we leave I wish Deputy Mitchell success in the European Parliament because I understand that he is chairing this committee for the last time today. I would like to give him a token of our appreciation. This is from a ninth century prayerbook. Bulgaria is very proud of its medieval art.

Chairman

Colleagues, I think this is my pension.

The joint committee adjourned at 3.15 p.m. sine die.