I propose to defer consideration of the minutes of the last meeting until the next meeting. Is that agreed? Agreed.
The first item of correspondence is a letter received from Ms Carbery of Amnesty International. I suggest we acknowledge this letter and refer it to the relevant Department. I do not believe it is for the committee.
It should be forwarded to the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment. Previously Amnesty International wrote to us regarding human rights abuses within the European Union and we forwarded it to the Sub-Committee on Human Rights of the Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs, whereas because it was specific to Europe, it should have been dealt with here. I have not heard whether the sub-committee has dealt with it or merely noted it.
We will check it out. There is correspondence forwarded by the Clerk of the Dáil regarding up-coming EU Presidency conferences. I propose to note this also. Is that agreed? Agreed. Deputy Mulcahy wishes to raise a matter under any other business.
Is there a report on progress on the visit to Turkey?
It is more a timetable issue than anything else.
According to the secretariat, the European Affairs committee in Ankara has stated it will be available between Wednesday, 17 November and Friday, 19 November. The plan would be to travel first to Ankara for two days and then perhaps spend the weekend in Istanbul. At the last meeting, we debated the fact that part of the decision on the accession of Turkey to the EU is about culture and one certainly would get more of a European flavour of Turkey in Istanbul than in Ankara.
I note that the COSAC meeting is on the following Monday and Tuesday, 22 and 23 November, and therefore consideration is being given to perhaps postponing this for a further week. I would urge caution about postponing it because we do not know if the Turkish side will have a second available slot in that second week. More importantly, at our last discussion we sought to conclude this as early as possible in November because the decision on EU membership is being made by the Council of Ministers early in December. The view was that we should have as much time as possible between the visit to Turkey and that decision being made to have a debate, representations and a forum here on that issue. The greater the gap between the visit and the decision in early December the better. I urge caution about postponing that visit, even for a week.
I endorse the Deputy's view. I am not sure of the date of the Council meeting in December. It will probably be in the second week.
It is being held on 17 December.
That gives us a little more time. We will need some follow-up from the meeting. I do not think it should be a meeting which stands in isolation. At the very least, we should have a session with the Minister after the committee has formed a view and decided whether it wants to make a recommendation. I am not anticipating any recommendation — we may decide that we do not want to make one. If we decide to make a recommendation, we will need a short while to get it together and to set up a meeting with the Minister and the relevant officials. The recommendation, if it is made, should be given to the Minister in good time to allow him to take it into account, to some degree, when he attends the Council meeting on 17 December. I agree with Deputy Mulcahy that we should do it as early as we can.
That is fair enough.
I wish to ask a question about one of the problems which has arisen. Will the new ambassador be in place by then?
I will respond to the questions asked by Deputies Ó Snodaigh and Mulcahy. The committee has been asked to arrange for the new ambassador to attend one of its meetings before members go to Turkey. Two issues arise in response to the Deputies' questions. If we leave on 17 November and return on19 November, perhaps the trip will be too close to the COSAC meeting. There would be a space of one day between returning from Turkey and leaving for the COSAC meeting in The Hague. If we arrange our trip for the dates in question, it may not be possible for the ambassador to attend a meeting of the committee. I think we will have a week to formulate a position in time for the European Council meeting. There is a difficulty either way. It may be more problematic if we leave on 17 November.
Can we check that the Turkish side is available in the latter week?
Yes.
We have been trying to organise a trip to Turkey for 18 months.
Yes.
I am not entirely happy that the trip has not taken place before now. Members of the committee were quite keen for the trip to take place. We were supposed to go to Cyprus before the referendum took place there, to enable us to have a proper debate. If the Turkish side is not available in the second week, we must leave in the first week, notwithstanding the COSAC meeting.
This is the most important decision to be made by the European Council. As it is such a fundamental and historic decision, it behoves us to be as prepared as possible. If the Turkish side is not available in the latter week, I will have to propose that we go in the latter week. It is possible to fly from Istanbul to The Hague. It is not impossible.
That is fair enough. This has been thrown at me at a late stage. I would like to go through the dates with Deputy Mulcahy before he makes an alternative proposal. He may give me an opportunity to do so in the next day or so.
I am sorry for being so adamant.
That is fine.
I am somewhat frustrated because we have been trying to organise the trip for 18 months.
Will the Deputy give me 24 hours? I will get back to him.
Is it not the case that COSAC really only involves the Chairman and some officials?
Six members are going.
Is that normal? I was not aware that six members normally go.
It is expected that the Chairman will be part of the delegation going to Turkey. I know the Turkish side would like the Chairman of the committee to be part of the visit. I have been to COSAC meetings at which just two or three people were in attendance. I do not think there will be a problem with numbers. There will be a great deal of interest in the Turkish visit. We will be able to get people to The Hague as well. I am very nervous that we will lose our slot in Turkey.
I thought before today that COSAC was a small community on the Adriatic Sea. I ask the Deputy to give me a break. I will get back to him within 24 hours.
We will talk about it.
I propose that the Croatian ambassador and Minister for European integration should attend a meeting of this committee at 2.30 p.m. on Wednesday, 3 November next. Representatives of the European anti-poverty network will be in attendance at 3 p.m. on that day. The briefings will be separate. The Minister for Foreign Affairs will be in attendance.
Will we be given a list of Turkish groups at that stage? We were trying to compile a list of groups to be invited to make presentations, as well as the ambassador.
We are working on it.
I will forward my suggestions to the Chairman.
I thank the members of the joint committee.
The joint committee adjourned at 3.35 p.m. until 2 p.m. on Wednesday, 27 October 2004.
