I welcome the Croatian Minister for European Integration, Mrs. Kolinda Grabar Kitarovic, with whom the committee is to have an exchange of views. Mrs. Grabar Kitarovic will give a Powerpoint presentation. After that the discussion will be opened up in order that members of the committee may ask her any questions they want.
Visit of Croatian Delegation.
Mrs. Kolinda Grabar Kitarovic
I thank the Chairman and members of the committee. It is a real pleasure to be here today to represent Croatia's view on the European integration process and path to the European Union. It is a pleasure to be in Dublin. This is my second visit this year. I was here in April, also, for the ministerial conference on Communicating Europe. Today's visit is part of our programme with representatives of our civil society on information about the European Union issues, on communicating Europe and on availing of the best opportunities for advancing the process of European integration. I have prepared a short Powerpoint presentation and I have hand-outs that are somewhat more extensive. After the presentation I am open to any questions members might have concerning Croatia and the Croatian European integration process.
Where is Croatia today? It is currently a candidate for the start of accession negotiations. We are awaiting the opening of negotiations as was determined by the European Council in early 2005. What have we done so far in the process? We signed a stabilisation and association agreement, SAA, on 29 October 2001. Unfortunately, it has not come into force yet. It was ratified by the then 15 member states, but we are still awaiting a decision on the acceptance of the SAA by the ten new members. The plan on the SAA has been adopted and even though the agreement has not yet come into force we have implemented more than 85% of its provisions. We expect the full process of implementation to be completed next year.
Even though the agreement has not yet come into force, we have implemented more than 85% of its provisions, and we expect to have completed implementation of the stabilisation and association agreement in the course of next year. We submitted an application for membership in February 2003, and on 20 April this year we received a positive avis and recommendation by the European Commission to the Council to take a decision to open negotiations with Croatia. Official EU membership candidate status was approved by the Council on 18 June 2004. The European partnership with Croatia was adopted by the Council of Ministers on 13 September. We have already included several short-term measures prescribed in the European partnership, along with some medium-term measures in our national plan for integration with the European Union, which is our central strategic and implementation document for the EU process.
The pre-accession strategy was adopted by the Community on 6 October 2004. It defines the process of negotiation with Croatia as the same as with the enlargement. Croatia has to fulfil the same Copenhagen and Madrid criteria for membership. We expect the Council to take a decision in December 2004 on specific dates in the first quarter of 2005 to open accession negotiations for Croatia.
What is the significance of candidate status for Croatia? First, it is an opportunity for us to catch up with the accession process of the ten new members and two candidates. We are going through a double transition. Croatia is going through a transition that eight of the new members went through, from a centralised economy to a market economy, but we also have our own transition process from a country recently affected by war to a peacetime economy and national prosperity. The prospect of membership is a catalyst in all the reform processes that we are undertaking in Croatia. It accelerates the reforms that we would have to undertake even if there were no prospect of membership. Our goals are to make Croatia an exemplary European democracy and a strong market economy with a significant social dimension. Of course, candidate status allows us access to the resources of pre-accession programmes to assist us in our reforms. That will be PHARE and ISPA as of 2005, and SAPARD will be operational from January 2006.
Croatia is proud it was granted candidate status, thus taking a big step forward for the region of south-eastern Europe, or the western Balkans. In that way, it has made a really high contribution to the stability and prosperity of the region, and to the European perspective of neighbouring countries. We want to assume the role of leadership in the region as a political model fulfilling the criteria and an economic leader and contribute to the stability of the entire region, as we realise that the image of the region also affects the image of Croatia. Therefore, regional co-operation is not only one of our obligations as a specific criterion for membership in the political criteria arising from the stabilisation and association process. It is also in our interest and our goal to co-operate with neighbouring countries and help them on their way in European integration to carry out the same reforms and fulfil the same criteria with the aim of stabilising the whole region and bringing about the sustainable development of neighbouring countries too.
A question frequently asked is when Croatia can achieve full EU membership. Of course, we can say with near certainty when we believe we will be ready for membership in the sense of having fulfilled the criteria to the point that we are acceptable as members. We hope that, at the same time, we will have concluded the negotiations. We believe that, in mid or late 2007, we will have completed the process as such. Based on the experience of the countries participating in the fifth enlargement process, and especially of candidate countries such as Bulgaria, we believe that it would be possible to conclude negotiations within about two and a half or three years.
Of course, many challenges remain on the road to EU membership. The basic framework is the decision by the Government and the political consensus that has been achieved in Croatia that full membership of the European Union is a fundamental policy goal. The preconditions of the process are overall consolidation of the system and continuing with the process of reform with targeted and uninterrupted internal reforms aimed at fulfilling the political and especially the economic criteria and also building administrative capacities. Vigorous and sustainable economic development is part of fulfilling the second Copenhagen criteria, but it is also of course in the interests of Croatia and its citizens and will allow us to bring down unemployment and boost production and exports. A determined and streamlined foreign policy and co-operation with the member countries in the region is also one of the strong elements of the whole process.
When it comes to fulfilling the criteria, as members can see in the handouts, we determine more specifically what is the level of achievement. With the political criteria, in its avis of this year, the Commission has concluded that Croatia is a functioning democracy with no major problems regarding human rights and so on. Of course, there remain many tasks to fulfil. Our obligations on the specific political criteria of co-operating with the International Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia, regional co-operation, the return of refugees and the restitution of property remain high on the Government's agenda, and we are very much determined to fulfil those criteria. There are also other political criteria, especially the reform of the judiciary and the public service so that it really is the servant of the citizens. Regarding the Copenhagen economic criteria, Croatia was evaluated by the Commission as a functioning market democracy. However, we will be able to face the competitive challenges of the Internal Market only in the medium term, meaning three to four years, which means that we must invest a great deal more effort and funds in raising the economy's competitiveness.
On the acquis, or “legal criteria” as it is sometimes known, we will be able to assume the obligations of membership in the short and medium term. The area of environmental protection was singled out as the only one where Croatia will need a long transitional period with substantial investment of effort and funding, both on a Government level and on the part of the private sector. Regarding the Madrid criterion of building administrative capacities to take over the obligations of membership, of course there is still a great deal of work to be done, not only in building new institutions but also in increasing transparency, individual responsibility and the efficiency of our civil service.
What lies ahead of us? The pre-screening process began on 5 October 2004. We started pre-screening our national legislation and comparing it with the acquis through the sub-committee of the committee on the implementation of the interim agreement on trade relations, which will remain in force until the SAA agreement becomes operational. The official screening will begin after the opening of the intergovernmental conference, and then negotiations, one hopes, in the first quarter of 2005. As already outlined, our goal is to achieve so-called "virtual membership" in 2007, meaning that we have fulfilled the criteria and concluded negotiations. Of course, the date of accession depends not on us but on the European Union. At this point, we do not want to obsess over the actual date. We want to go step by step towards fulfilling the criteria and do our best in carrying out the reforms. The prospect of membership is really the final station in that journey. It will be followed by an EU decision on Croatia's membership. We are assembling the negotiating team and sectoral working groups to make sure the people who participate in negotiations are experts in the subject of the negotiations, have an excellent knowledge of English and are capable of teamwork. Establishing the system of expert and technical assistance for negotiation support means including the broad spectrum of experts, think tanks, non-governmental organisations, giving the parliament a role in the negotiating process and including the citizens in the process. Ensuring the adoption of strategic documents and programmes for integration in the EU does not mean only the reform processes but also preparation for pre-accession funding. Ensuring successful absorption means creating good specific strategies for the absorption of the funding, making sure the project proposals are up to standard and the administrative officials performing those functions are as efficient as possible.
Establishing the necessary institutions and agencies, and upgrading the institutions to a capacity that will be able to implement the adopted legislation and fulfil other obligations, as part of fulfilling the Madrid criteria for administrative capabilities, is also very important in the short to medium term. Informing the Croatian public about the process is one of our foremost goals too. This is why we brought eight representatives of civil society to Ireland. We believe that Croatian citizens share ownership of the process of European integration and the Government is only the medium through which the process is conducted as efficiently as possible. We look forward to co-operating with our citizens to get their ideas, hear about their problems and to being in constant contact with them, to address the needs they have in the process.
Recently we experienced quite a sharp drop in support for EU membership, mostly because the process has been very intense and there has been a great deal of misinformation circling around, based on hearsay, especially from the EU member states. It is our responsibility to provide accurate information and to allow our citizens to make informed decisions, and take the final decision about Croatia's membership in the European Union in the referendum, I hope in 2007.
The European Union can bring stability to Croatia and the region, as well as security, prosperity and shared European values, to go back to the places we like, to be where we belong. We want to be able to decide on the future of Europe and participate in its future and resist the challenges of modern globalisation and the transborder threats to national and international security. The end result of the transformation and transition process, catalysed by the integration process, should bring about not only EU membership but also the growth and competitiveness of our industries, higher living standards and a better life for our citizens.
The Minister mentioned a sharp drop in support for EU integration and said there was some misinformation going around. Will she explain that? Who is doing it and what kind of misinformation it is? Is it politically motivated?
Mrs. Grabar Kitarovic
At the Ministry of European Integration we conduct a poll every six months on the level of support for EU membership along with questions on the overall knowledge of the EU institutions and the whole process. In June this year we registered a drop of 20% in support for EU membership. In the first half of this year Croatia made very difficult and important political decisions.
To and from what did the percentage fall?
Mrs. Grabar Kitarovic
It fell from 72% to approximately 51% of support. That is probably the lowest point it will reach because the first negative effects have become obvious and the difficult political decisions are not always popular with the people. Sometimes there is a feeling that we are making those decisions because of pressure from the European Union and not because it is in our own interests. Co-operation with the International Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia and the fact that two of our generals and six people of Croatian origin from Bosnia Herzegovina surrendered to The Hague this year has not been too damaging because people have accepted co-operation with the tribunal as quite normal and necessary to achieve final closure, and to point out that guilt for war crimes is individual and these issues should be settled in court as legal not political issues.
One of the hot topics was the ecological and fishery zone in the Adriatic proclaimed last year without proper consultations with the neighbouring countries, Italy and Slovenia. Under the Law of the Sea the countries have the right to proclaim an exclusive economic zone. The Adriatic, however, is a closed sea so any decisions on its future should be made in consultation with the neighbouring countries. We decided to suspend implementation of the zone for the EU member countries until we have negotiated a partnership for fisheries agreement or closed the fisheries chapter. The general population perceived that as giving up a national interest.
In addition the integration process has become highly politicised and we have talked more about the political aspects of the process rather than the specific issues that will be of interest to the population especially to specific groups. I have friends who live in Austria, Germany and the Czech Republic who tell me that since their countries joined the European Union the standard of living fell by 20% or 40%, unemployment and prices rose etc. There is a great deal of information floating around. After the poll in June we did some specific focus group research to identify the reason for the rise in Euro-scepticism but we could not find one reason alone. There was synergy of reasons, even though we modified our communications strategy since the beginning of this year to aim it more specifically at certain population groups. There is a need for specific information on what changes people must make in their lives to adjust and what the EU membership, or the whole process will entail, what opportunities will emerge and what compromises will be required.
I, too, welcome the Minster and her delegation. I had the opportunity to meet her yesterday in my capacity as vice chairman of the Irish Council for the European Movement and with some of my colleagues here visited Croatia and Slovenia last year. The Minister has addressed several of my questions including co-operation with the International Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia, and the dispute, such as it is, between Croatia and Slovenia. That issue was raised when we were in Slovenia last year. If it is not addressed it will fester.
Will the Minister elaborate on some issues about which we were concerned last year and which remain challenges, for example, the functionality and independence of the judiciary. What measures have the government taken to ensure it combats corruption? The respect for minorities and the return of refugees are other areas of concern. The Minister said the return of refugees is linked to an extent to the economic situation. How independent is the media given its control by a monopoly? Is it wrong to assume the media, particularly the electronic form, is very heavily controlled? How does Mrs. Grabar Kitarovic view the evolution of security in Croatia and surrounding countries in the short to medium term? Does she believe the application from Turkey for membership of the European Union will have a positive or negative impact, if any, on political stability in the region?
Mrs. Grabar Kitarovic
I thank the Deputy for his questions which encompass all areas of foreign policy. Our co-operation with the International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia, ICTY, is a matter which, as a Government and a nation, we are determined to carry out to the full. It is undoubted that we will continue to co-operate with the court in The Hague to the full.
The only remaining issue is that of General Gotovina who has not surrendered to the court and is still at large. The Government has invited him on several occasions to go to The Hague to defend his position before the court. According to our information services in Croatia, he is not currently in Croatia. Therefore, the extent of co-operation in that case is that we do what we can, namely, to co-operate fully in trying to find where the general might be hiding. He is a prominent international figure with French citizenship and a French passport. He has strong connections with the underground and was a member of the French Foreign Legion. While Croatia of course has an obligation if he is in Croatia, if he is not there all we can do is co-operate fully in an investigation to try to find his whereabouts.
The other issues on co-operation have been resolved. Two Croatian generals of equal rank to General Gotovina have gone to The Hague. This proves there is no difference for us between them and General Gotovina and that we want to co-operate fully. With respect to the indictment against General Gotovina and the other two generals, who have been indicted under the same indictment, we do not agree with some of the political qualifications in the indictment. We will use every legal means at our disposal to defend our position before the court in The Hague because we believe it is the proper forum in which to discuss these issues.
There have been some problems with Slovenia with regard to open issues, mainly the border issue, the limitation in the bay of Piran and access to the sea. We regard Slovenia as a friendly neighbouring country and we intend to carry out bilateral co-operation. Regardless of the current state of bilateral relations, Slovenia and Croatia will in the future be close, neighbouring countries in the European Union which will contribute to the consensus in the Union. The open issues between the two countries are bilateral and should be resolved as such between the two countries and based on mutual respect. If this is not possible by dialogue, it should be undertaken by arbitration, which we have been proposing for some time. We are ready to accept the outcome of arbitration, whatever it may be and even if it is unfavourable to Croatia.
With respect to the question on the reform of the judiciary, the Commission has evaluated that if we continue at the same speed, Croatia will be able to carry out the reform in the medium term — in approximately three to four years, or five at a maximum. Many issues remain to be resolved in this sector. First, there is a backlog of 1.5 million cases which affects not only the credibility of the courts but also the economy and internal exchange between companies. We have established a judicial academy that will be fully fledged as of next year and, in this regard, the CARDS programme is helping us to carry out the education to a European standard.
There is a need to change mindsets and attitudes. Judges must realise they are public servants and are there to serve the citizens. They must accept that they should be impartial and efficient and that their work must be transparent, like any other public servant. Significant progress has been made with regard to the independence of the judiciary. While some problems exist, this is one of the high points of the agenda. My colleague at the Ministry of Justice, who is from a coalition party, the Democratic Centre Party, is an energetic lady and will be able to carry out the reform. From talking to her, I feel she has a clear idea of where we must go. However, it is not only up to the political leadership. The lower levels and institutions must also be carried. This is part of the overall programme of reforming the judiciary and also the civil service.
Corruption is a reality. While, unfortunately, it is impossible to eradicate it, we must reduce it to the minimum level possible, not only in the judiciary but also in the civil service. Not only is it an issue of credibility but it greatly affects the economy, foreign direct investment and everyday business in Croatia. Among other measures, we now have pilot projects such as a one-stop shop, as here in Ireland. This is to reduce administrative barriers and to reduce the possibility of corruption in the process. There is individual accountability of every civil servant who receives applications so that we can reduce the time needed to process applications and remove the possibility of someone taking an application, putting it in a drawer and, for various reasons, trying to extend the process. Again, this involves changing mindsets and attitudes, and much education and public campaigning.
In addition to co-operation with the ICTY, the issue of minorities is one on which we have made much progress throughout this year. Even during the pre-election campaign, the current Prime Minister invited Serbian refugees to return to Croatia and made it clear what the reformed Croatian Democratic Union and the new Government, if elected, would stand for. It is important to state that the governing coalition in the Parliament, comprising the Croatian Democratic Union, Democratic Centre, the Croatian Social Liberal Party and other parties, also comprises representatives of the minorities. We have signed an agreement with the representatives of the Serbian minority and the Italian minority. These agreements stipulate conditions, for instance, on the restitution of property in the context of the return of Serbian refugees and, in the case of the Italian minority, on the full implementation of the 1996 agreement on mutual protection of minorities between Croatia and Italy.
Important symbolic moves were made by the Government and the Prime Minister in particular. The Government was appointed on 23 December last year, one month after the elections took place. The Prime Minister celebrated New Year's Eve with the Italian community in Istria and addressed them in the Italian language. Seven days later he celebrated the Orthodox Christmas with the Serbian community and greeted them in the Serbian language. While these moves may seem symbolic, they are very important for Croatia because they clearly signal where we are truly going and remove doubts about whether we would have the right attitude.
With regard to the return of refugees, we are determined to take back every single person who wants to return to Croatia and call Croatia their homeland. There are obstacles, mainly of an economic nature. Funding must be provided for the rebuilding of homes as people will mostly return to areas affected by war. There is a shortage of jobs in those areas and, in addition to housing, the basic conditions for human security must be provided for, which would encompass social security, jobs and prospects for sustainable futures and sustainable development of the areas and the families who return.
Incidents occasionally occur on the ground but, fortunately, less and less often. What is most important is that the Government and local authorities take energetic action when incidents occur. For example, when a house is burned down, it is important this is treated like any other criminal action, that the police take action and apprehend the perpetrators and that the judiciary also plays its role in prosecuting those persons. We are making progress towards an independent media and are working closely with the Council of Europe and the OSCE in drafting our legislation. A law on electronic media was passed this year that brings Croatia into line with European Union legislation. We did not want to do anything without proper consultation with the OSCE, the Council of Europe and the European Union. We do not want to rush into making any decisions because we want to ensure there is an independent media and we realise the Croatian national television station is the strongest opinion former. Opening the market will ensure an independent media and competition in the market. In addition to the Croatian national television network, we also have RTL and Nova TV nationally and regional television stations. As the market grows, it will ensure objective presentation of information and less influencing of the media.
I was impressed by Mrs. Grabar Kitarovic's articulation of the problems and challenges faced by Croatia and she will find a sympathetic hearing in Ireland. I was impressed when it was mentioned that the recent drop in support for EU membership only brought the figure down to 51%. There was a fear that the liberalisation of trade and services would result in the handover of power to Brussels. How much of a challenge is that? Is there much opposition to joining NATO?
Mrs. Grabar Kitarovic
There are fears in Croatia of loss of national identity and of surrendering sovereignty to Brussels, mostly because our independence was only recently won and we paid a high price for it. Euro-realists and optimists believe, however, that we can best realise our sovereignty within the European Union. Although part of a country's sovereignty is shared, it is built upon and becomes part of the European decision-making process. At least half of the population of Croatia realises that and the other half can be presented with those clear advantages in the debate on joining. There is a price to pay, such as the cost of the reform process, but we would have to do that even if we were not joining the EU.
NATO membership is another issue. A smaller percentage of the population supports NATO membership — approximately 35% — because of a lack of information. Membership is perceived as giving Croatian territory for military bases, putting radar on Croatian mountains and destroying the environment. We must present the right information but the Ministry of Foreign Affairs is in charge of NATO membership while the Ministry of European Integration deals only with EU membership.
I welcome the delegation to the committee — we are delighted to have this opportunity to exchange information. I have never been to Croatia but many of my friends have been there on holiday and have come back with positive reports.
The question on the accession of Turkey was not answered and environmental issues also must be addressed. Has Croatia signed up to the Kyoto Protocol? What environmental problems face the country? Was much environmental damage caused by the war? Are there other outstanding border issues, apart from the problems mentioned with Slovenia, about which we have not heard?
Mrs. Grabar Kitarovic
Croatia believes every country's approach to joining the EU should be based on individual merit. We support the applications of our neighbours to join the EU but membership should be based on the speed and quality of reform every country undertakes along the way to membership. The same goes for Turkey. We are not competing with Turkey, Bulgaria or Romania, countries which may join in 2007 and which have concluded the negotiations. We are competing with ourselves to do what we say we will do and to carry out the reforms for the benefit of the citizens of Croatia. We do not look at the European integration process as converging with Turkey, but going in parallel. Each country has its own problems and we must work towards resolving them. We can carry out our reforms quickly and we do not see Turkey's membership as a barrier to ours.
Waste disposal and the protection of water — drinking water and sewerage systems — are the main environmental issues. There are issues related to dangerous substances but they are not prominent in Croatia. The war did not affect the environment badly and there have been no major ecological catastrophes as a result. There are land mines in some areas that were affected, particularly the dividing areas, and de-mining is a precondition for the return of people to those areas.
We have signed the Kyoto Protocol and the acceptance of environmental standards is not an issue of our will to do it but having the necessary economic means to fulfil them. Environmental protection groups are increasing in numbers in Croatia and everyone is more aware of environmental issues. This will not be a sensitive area for negotiations in the sense of public support but it will be sensitive in terms of funding.
The Badinter Commission concluded in 1991 that Yugoslavia had dissolved and the new borders should be the old borders of the former Yugoslav republics. We now have an issue with Slovenia because a border was never marked on the sea and there is a problem with where the border ran on the land — if it was the river or the channel into which it flowed. We must agree on this. There are pockets on the Danube between Croatia and Serbia that remain at issue and the maritime border in the south between Croatia and Montenegro remains contested. There are other issues between other countries that achieved independence, such as Serbia and Montenegro and Macedonia and Bosnia Herzegovina. We believe, precisely for that reason, we should not change the principle of the Badinter commission that the old Republic of Yugoslavia borders should be the borders of the new countries because if one changes it, one opens a Pandora's box, giving rise to disputes about borders between all of our neighbouring countries.
I am delighted to meet the Croation delegation. I was very impressed when I visited Croatia last year and I am very interested in its progress to date. The delegates have answered all of the questions I had planned to ask as Deputy Carey highlighted reform of the judiciary, the status of refugees and the restitution of property. Surely the high unemployment rate presents a problem in trying to be ready for 2007. Is it possible in that timeframe to correct all the problems highlighted today?
Mrs. Grabar Kitarovic
Yes, because we are determined to carry out the process. The process of restitution and rebuilding of property will be completed by the end of 2006. A number of homes remain to be rebuilt. A number of refugees who do not want to or cannot go back to Bosnia Herzegovina are occupying some of the homes of the Serb refugees who must come back. We do not wish to throw the people concerned out on the street but we must find temporary housing for them. This complicates the issue a little. I believe in the new budget for 2005 we will increase the allocation for rebuilding the homes of the refugees. There is a clear political will to carry out the process. The Ministry of the Sea, Transport, Tourism and Development deals with these issues, but in order to speed up the process a government committee headed by a lady who lost her son in the war is now helping Serbian refugees to come back. We want to give political weight to the process to help refugees return. Bureaucracy sometimes tends to be slow, but for people who want to return it is a matter of urgency to organise their lives in their country. By setting up a political commission, we will speed up the process. Unfortunately, funding is a problem.
I wish to ask a similar question, but perhaps in a more sceptical fashion. I would have been under the impression when the Minister's party was last in government that it would have preferred if the Serbs who were displaced in the course of the war just stayed away. The impression was certainly given by the former President's party at the time that it did not want them back. Forgive me for being sceptical, but is it fair to say the party is now saying that while the Serbs can come back, they may not be able to get their houses back as the Government does not have the budget to return their houses to them and that they will not get jobs? Does Mrs. Grabar Kitarovic have an estimate of the numbers who have come back and the numbers who may wish to come back?
Mrs. Grabar Kitarovic
I thank the Senator for his question. It is true there were problems, but both the party and Government pride themselves on the reform of the party. It is not a political problem, but one of funding. Regardless of this, the Government will resolve every single case of anyone who wishes to return. It might take more time, but they will come back.
Has Mrs. Grabar Kitarovic an estimate of the number who wish to return?
Mrs. Grabar Kitarovic
A significant majority of those who wish to return have already returned. I believe several thousand in Serbia and Bosnia Herzegovina wish to return. It is true that not all will want to return because they have been away for a number of years. We have a problem with displaced persons in Croatia — Croats who lived in the occupied areas and were forced from their areas to other parts of Croatia. In the meantime, they found jobs or their children were born in another city and they no longer want to return.
In addition to infrastructural problems and the removal of land mines, the opportunity to find work presents a difficulty. For those reasons people who have settled elsewhere in Croatia or Bosnia Herzegovina or Serbia or Montenegro may be reluctant to return. The OSCE has conducted research on those who want to go back and their numbers approximate to those of our embassy in Belgrade. We are talking about tens of thousands who have come back or will come back.
Does Mrs. Grabar Kitarovic estimate the numbers who wish to return to be a few thousand?
Mrs. Grabar Kitarovic
Approximately 2,000.
How many of those who were displaced will remain in Serbia or Bosnia Herzegovina?
Mrs. Grabar Kitarovic
We drew a distinction between displaced persons, Croatian citizens who stayed in Croatia, but were forced out of the occupied areas and refugees who actually went to other countries, either in the West or Bosnia Herzegovina or Serbia and Montenegro. I will check if I have that number.
I am not looking for an exact figure, but an idea of the numbers involved. Is it fair to say most of those who were displaced to Serbia or into the Serb part of Bosnia are not expected to come back?
Mrs. Grabar Kitarovic
It is hard to say, but a percentage of them.
Mr. Anton Babic
No one has done a survey.
In regard to General Gotovaina, will Mrs. Grabar Kitarovic expand on the political qualifications regarding his indictment?
Mrs. Grabar Kitarovic
We believe the court in The Hague should be a legal institution and should not be making political qualifications, but decide on the individual guilt of every individual.
I thank the delegation. The committee appreciates its excellent presentation. The Minister was impressive in answering tricky questions. I wish her well.
Mrs. Grabar Kitarovic
I thank the committee for its attention. It has been a pleasure to be here. Should the committee require further information, we are at its disposal. I thank Ireland for the support it gave to Croatia. We look forward to future co-operation in the European Union.
Sitting suspended at 3.29 p.m. and resumed at 3.31 p.m.