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JOINT COMMITTEE ON EUROPEAN AFFAIRS debate -
Wednesday, 7 Feb 2007

EU Issues: Discussion with Speaker of Slovakian Parliament.

Item 1 on the agenda is an exchange of views with Mr. Pavol Paska, Speaker of the Parliament of Slovakia on current issues of interest in the EU. On behalf of the joint committee, I welcome Mr. Paska and the parliamentary delegation from Slovakia. I also welcome and thank His Excellency, Mr. Ján Gábor, Slovakian ambassador, for his assistance in organising today's meeting. We will commence with a presentation from Mr. Paska following which I will invite members to put questions to the delegation.

Before doing so, I will outline to the delegation the workings of the joint committee. The committee has spent a great deal of time in recent years on immigrant affairs and issues around people from the accession countries coming to Ireland to work and live and has issued a report on that. There are several Slovakians now living in Ireland and I am sure members will be interested to hear the types of issues affecting them. I understand Mr. Paska will head the Conference of Speakers in Bratislava. Perhaps he will outline to the committee his hopes and wishes in that regard.

Mr. Pavol Paska

I thank the Chairman and members of the joint committee for this opportunity. I will commence with a short presentation following which I hope I will be able to answer members' questions. I introduce my colleagues from Parliament, Mr. Kondrót who is chairman of the committee on economic affairs, Mr. Devínsky who is the chairman of the committee for education, and Mr. Csáky who is former Vice Prime Minister of the former Government responsible for European affairs.

When I took over the office of chairman of the National Council of the Slovak Republic I stressed that politics must be perceived as an ambitious service to our citizens and political representatives cannot be entitled to more than the people they represent. Successful development of relations between citizens and their representatives is strongly conditioned by continuity and stability, not only on domestic but also on foreign policy, as the state with good credibility abroad is also reliable at home. The Slovak Government's statement of policy has offered such a guarantee, and I am convinced that the Minister for Foreign Affairs, who is generally regarded as the expert in the field of international relations — I refer to Mr. Kubis — is the right person to carry out the foreign policy of the Slovak Republic that will be in compliance with the task of securing stability and continuity. Continuity offers a new range of possibilities following on the international position of the Slovak Republic. We might eventually witness that besides a little adjustment, the priorities of Slovak foreign policy have not been altered.

The main outline of European Union and NATO membership that foreign policy has been effective in explaining is the result of constant and extensive political consensus. The joint interest of the political spectrum in strengthening the stable and good position of our country abroad continues. At the same time we wish to enrich foreign policy with a more intensive economic dimension. Let me return to my inaugural speech when I stressed the co-operation of the National Council of the Slovak Republic in regard to foreign policy. The consensus among all political parties in regard to key issues of the European Union agenda has not changed. All parliamentary parties share similar opinions on the extension of the EU, on strengthening the EU role in foreign policy, and on the fulfilment of the EU task in regard to increased competitiveness in a global perspective. All foreign political obligations that have been taken over by the Slovak Republic are fulfilled responsibly today. That is why the task of securing stability and continuity is also essential for foreign policy.

I am aware that the EU constitution is very high on the agenda of this committee. One of the priorities of the European dimension on foreign policy is the reform of the institutional scope of the EU which should result in increased efficiency of EU activities. I assume the fundamental element of this process is the continuance of EU constitution ratification, which represents a significant innovative factor in the extended European Union. Despite the amount of discussion on the EU constitution so far, unfortunately, an eventual solution has not yet been found. Also, communication with EU members is still based on the relations among states, the states' competencies, borders, sovereignty and the difference between domestic and foreign policy.

Since this document has not altered it is indisputable that the new environment needs more transparent rules in the extended EU. In spite of its imperfections the introduction of the EU constitution has been logical and it has been the highest priority of the National Council of the Slovak Republic in regard to foreign policy. I am convinced that once the EU has its own treaty document it will contribute to the fulfilment of a united EU and to global competitiveness. I am glad the Slovak Republic is not the one that has disputed the future of this document but we fully respect the right of others to do so.

However, today at the beginning of the German Presidency and the review period, we must ask questions on the fundamental direction of the European integration process. Moreover, as we are a part of this process and have always worked towards it, we wish to form such relations among EU member states as will sustain the freedom, prosperity and security of our sub-continent. Allow me, therefore, to appeal to politicians, European leaders and citizens of the European Union to take over the responsibility for successful continuance of the European integration project and together find the solution and means to achieve the validation of the treaty.

One of my interests is the Conference of the Speakers of EU Parliaments. At the beginning of July this year in Copenhagen, the national council of the Slovak Republic took over the Presidency of the Conference of the Speakers of EU Parliaments. I assure our Irish partners how delighted we are with the meeting on the Bratislava forum and that the highest legislative assembly of Slovakia will follow up with the successful activity of Danish Folketing and will do anything not to disappoint our partners' belief. I am fully aware that we have to cope with the amount of issues in parliamentary relations, mainly due to overgrown bureaucracy and not very much effective discussion. In this connection, the highest priority of the conference shall be the opening of discussion on the streamlining and rationalisation of parliamentary relations in order to exempt mutual co-operation from overblown formalism and ambitious challenge. In terms of this agenda, we shall discuss with the partners particular topics that might enrich all involved parties and parliamentary diplomacy in the future. Our decision about the future within this forum will be led by courage, responsibility and understanding of the national parliaments' roles in the decision making process within the European Union.

When speaking about European relations we have to bear in mind relations within and outside the EU. With regard to relations with the neighbouring countries of the EU, I point out our permanent interest in the western Balkans, mainly in the succession countries of former Yugoslavia, where the most discussed topic is the future of Kosovo. I emphasise that it is not only about the calculation of our own benefit but also about the permanent solution for all involved parties.

Being elected as a non-permanent member and currently chairing country of the UN Security Council, we will make it a priority to contribute to solving this issue. The aim in defining Kosovo's future status shall be not only the strengthening of stability and security but also the European prospect in the region. In this regard, we cannot forget about the danger of the domino effect in the form of other frozen conflicts as well as the eventual radicalisation of Serbian society and possible denial of the pro-western orientation of Serbia resulting in the destabilisation of the western Balkans. The result of the recent parliamentary election in Serbia has implied the weakening of the pro-western orientation of the country, the existence of a negative attitude to dependency separation from its territories, despite the obvious political spectrum of Serbia.

The future of Kosovo has to come from the mutual agreement of all the involved parties that will guarantee the conditions of creating a multi-ethnic society with consistent protection of all minority groups. As a member of the EU and based on historical and cultural ties with this part of Europe, we support the effort of the international community to find a permanent solution for Kosovo in order not to proportionally damage any party, even though it will be very difficult.

I refer to Slovak nationals in Ireland. Apart from mutual characteristics, Slovak and Irish people have an historical connection, namely, the tradition in work emigration. Ireland is a little further ahead in development. Mainly thanks to the huge progress they have made in the recent period, many Irish citizens are coming back to their homeland. In the case of Slovakia, many Slovaks are leaving the country to make profits abroad. This also means the outflow of many qualified, young prospective people but it does not necessarily have to be perceived as a negative situation. The Irish example gives hope that in the near future, if Slovakian economic growth persists, those people will return enriched by new experiences and savings. I am convinced Slovakia will be capable of capitalising on these attributes and maximising their positive significance.

Ireland has opened the door to our citizens and, by the best means, has shown Europe the direction of integration. I am grateful for the opportunity to make a presentation to the committee and for the attention of members. My colleagues and I are prepared to answer questions.

I thank Mr. Paska. If others members of the delegation would like to join in or ask questions, that is entirely allowable.

I refer to the Slovakian population in Ireland, which may number upwards of 30,000. The Slovakian ambassador to Ireland informed the committee last week that 20,000 PPS numbers had issued to Slovakian nationals. Have issues arisen for them? For example, citizens from the new accession countries have experienced work discrimination and homelessness.

Mr. Paska

No. I do not have information regarding the opening of the job market for the new accession countries. Sometimes we read in our media about some problems but it is based on tension within the host country towards immigration rather than tension between the countries. It is based on normal human activity. We do not have negative experiences.

I do not wish to overstate the issue but I must ask the question. All the evidence suggests Slovakian nationals have assimilated well and, overall, the experience has been extremely positive. How is emigration to Ireland perceived in Slovakia? Is the number of young people leaving the country to live in Ireland an issue, particularly in regard to the skills base?

Mr. Paska

I may be too subjective because I represent social democracy. The new Government formed after the election last June is social democratic. We are changing the system of social security and providing many other changes with the aim of getting many young educated people back home. It is really based on the creation of parallel conditions for those people who are living abroad, mostly in economically and socially developed countries, as Ireland is without any doubt. It will be difficult to get our young people who are living here back home but that is the project we have set ourselves. During the debate earlier, I expressed the view that the most interesting Irish experience is social partnership, which has created the platform for dramatic progress and increasing economic development. This is something we would like to use in Slovakia. We heard it took 20 years to achieve, so while we can create a project in one day we cannot implement it within two or three years. As I expressed in my opening speech, we are trying to find a consensus across the political spectrum and to undertake long-term projects. The Irish experience is great. I would like to hear more about it over lunch.

I welcome Mr. Paska and his delegation. I am conscious of the time. We have only about half an hour for questions, so I will not make any statements. I wish to focus on two areas. Mr. Paska dealt with the EU constitution and the ongoing volatility in the Balkans. My question arises from the comments regarding Kosovo and the implications of the situation there. In terms of future enlargement of the Union, how does Mr. Paska view the Croatian and Macedonian applications? Does he believe we should proceed quickly or take time to assess the impact of the most recent enlargement process.

My second question relates to the avalanche of EU directives and regulations that have appeared in recent years. As a relatively new member, how is Slovakia accommodating and examining the implications of the aforementioned legislation?

Mr. Paska

In response to the Deputy's first question on enlargement, the number one priority is Croatia. All political parties in Slovakia supported Croatia's application for membership of the EU. It has already been stated the process is not as fast as it was for Romania and Bulgaria, for example, which became members of the European Union from 1 January this year. However, as I said in my speech, we must do everything we can to the support enlargement of the EU in the western Balkans because of the introduction there of democratic systems and to support the political representation that is fighting for democratic values and systems.

The accession of Turkey as a member of the EU presents a more problematic question in the Slovak Republic. The official position is that the door must stay open because the European Union started the debate and it would be a strategic mistake to close the door and find a different mechanism or forget about the aim for a common Europe. This is not only a headache for Slovakian politics. We must do the maximum for the western Balkans, principally Croatia and then other countries, once the membership criteria are fulfilled.

Regarding bureaucracy and the avalanche of directives and changes, the greatest impact was on the former Government in the last Parliament, during which I was in opposition. The pressure was tremendous and we implemented hundreds of directives. The voices of scepticism are now appearing in parliamentary debates on animals. Previously, no one had to declare pigs or cows but now the farmer must go to the veterinarian, have a sample taken and await the results of an investigation. This is an example of directives that are not being implemented very well. In principle there is no problem with implementation in Slovakia. Our representatives in the European institutions must protect the national economic interest if a directive which would damage our interest is proposed.

I welcome the Speaker and the representatives and hope they forge beneficial links. It will not take 20 years for Slovakia's graduates to return. The economy is growing steadily and graduates will see an opportunity to get in at the beginning to build the country to the levels and standards in which they wish to live.

That all the representatives present are men prompts me to ask about gender balance in Parliament and in the democratic process in Slovakia? Do women participate in the Parliament and in the democratic process? Are measures envisaged to ensure that happens over time?

Mr. Pál Csáky, MP

I thank the Chairman for the opportunity to appear before the committee. I am the former Deputy Prime Minister of my country. This is my sixth time in Ireland. The colours I am wearing are similar to the green of Ireland. I have many friends in this Government and the former Government. I was responsible for three areas in the previous two Governments, including human rights, which is important for post-communist countries and minorities. Slovakia is multi-ethnic and 17% of its inhabitants belong to a minority group. My most important responsibility was in the area of European affairs and organising the referendum in 2003. It was a very interesting result. Of all participants in the referendum, 92% voted "Yes" to EU membership. Currently, therefore, public opinion in Slovakia is very strongly in support of our EU activities.

Ours is not a country without problems. The balance of women on the delegation, for example, demonstrates one issue while ethnic Hungarian citizens are also under-represented. There is some compensation in my private life, however, as I am the father of four daughters. It is an important issue. It is a problem not only for my country, but for all post-communist countries that must discover how to invite women into the public life. Perhaps all of our political parties have problems in respect of this question. Of all MPs in our Parliament, 18% approximately are women, including the Deputy Speaker and two or three members of the Government.

Our philosophy on migration and free movement of people is to create jobs at home. We are relatively successful and GDP growth is now higher than 7%. Foreign investors are interested in Slovakia, especially the automobile industry. Our general aim is to create jobs domestically and to stabilise conditions for our citizens. Slovakia's educational system is not bad. The level of education of our citizens is acceptable and will help to stabilise employment for the citizens. As a member of the European Union, we guarantee the free movement of our citizens. It is one of the priorities in European co-operation.

On our foreign activities, we are in a geo-political position which involves both the Balkans and the future of Ukraine and Belarus. We try to constitute a bridge for the European Union to the east, including the Russian Federation and Ukraine. The Balkans are also very important. It is not simply a question of economic co-operation but of security for all of Europe. The Balkans are problematic in this context. We see Croatia as a very good prospect for future EU membership although the Nice treaty creates problems in that it is not possible to accept a new member of the Union on the basis of it. The possible solution would be the acceptance of the European treaty by all member states, although this avenue is also problematic. We noted the results of the referendums in France and Holland, but see also problems in the United Kingdom, Denmark and the Czech Republic. There may also be different positions on the future development of the European treaty in Poland. The Slovakian Parliament has already ratified the treaty with the approval of 92% of all MPs. There is no Eurosceptic party in our Parliament, although the Christian Democrats have some reservations on the current structure of the EU and its effect on Slovakia. It is important that Slovakia, which is a small country, is part of an effective European Union in terms of the globalisation process. Slovakia is a free market and as such is not affected by competition among the member countries of the European Union though we try to co-operate in that regard. We are aware of the competition between the different regions and European Union. It is an important balance.

We support the requirement for a higher level of co-operation in terms of EU foreign and security policies and it was for this reason we accepted the treaty. We are strong supporters of the authorisation of priorities of the German Presidency. I am a little sceptical that it will be possible to realise these priorities within a six months timeframe. We are big fans of the German Presidency.

I join in welcoming Mr. Paska and his colleagues from the Slovakian Parliament. On the last point about the treaty, when we met the ambassador in regard to the German Presidency, there appeared to be a suggestion that the treaty would need to be unpicked to have it brought forward. While there is some merit in that argument, from a political point of view, for those countries which have yet to adopt the treaty, the counter argument was that this is a synthesis of all countries, it is a reasonable compromise and should therefore be adopted. It would be interesting to hear the perspective of a country that has adopted the treaty bearing in mind that question. Does the treaty as drafted stand or does it require to be changed or redrafted? I would like to tease out this question with the delegation.

My second question relates to Kosovo. I accept what has been said in regard to the western Balkans. We may not be as centrally interested given our geography. What is the position in regard to membership for Kosovo in terms of the surrender of people alleged to be war criminals? Should Serbia and Montenegro be taken as one or as separate entities?

I do not know whether there is a member of the Christian Democrats or KDH among the delegation. Perhaps a member of the delegation can explain what happened at the discussions in regard to the draft treaty with the Holy See.

I welcome the delegation.

What happened in regard to the proposed draft treaty with the Vatican?

The Lisbon Agenda which aims to create wealth and jobs in Europe has not been successful to date. Many traditionalists believe wealth and jobs depend on traditional manufacturing rather than on trade, commerce and services. Has Slovakia found it difficult to move from the Soviet influenced system to one which required it to remove its trade barriers? Has it moved towards accepting people from other countries taking over its shops and other services traditionally operated by Slovakians? Has it been possible to remove those barriers? Is there a recognition that if the Lisbon Agenda is to work it means trying to influence spending by our citizens in Europe so that we influence the creation of jobs and of wealth not just through manufacture?

Mr. Paska

I will try to answer this question and then go through all the questions. Regarding the Lisbon Agenda, we have for many years been talking and working towards initiating the steps to be taken. It is not a problem for our economy because the structure of GDP in the Slovak Republic is still changing. We need to be flexible and create new jobs in manufacturing and in standard production, using money, and pushing for new jobs in services and so on. The share of GDP of agriculture is still 4% or 5% while the share of services is still only 27%. We have to increase the income of the people. We must, therefore, increase jobs in manufacturing. We are doing that in the car industry and in heavy industry, with American investment and US Steel in the east, and so on. This is resulting in an increase or a doubling of income with more demand for services, which will slowly change the structure of our GDP. It is not a big problem to implement the Lisbon Agenda in our country. The problem is how effective the Lisbon project is in developed European countries and whether the long debated Bolkestein directive on opening up the market for services is impacting on the jobs market and creating more jobs in that area. We are working and are prepared. We have a Lisbon man in government who is really effectively and flexibly preparing the project. He is very close to the project of investment and development of the economy in Slovakia.

In regard to the treaty, we are aware there must be compromise because I cannot imagine how we could find a way to have to come back to a referendum either in France or in Holland, but we are not in a position to support cherry-picking. Nor are we in a position, before knowing what the final text is, to support opening what is in effect, a Pandora's box.

In regard to Kosovo, I have already explained our position. The problem is that the Slovak Republic is a non-permanent member of the Security Council. The responsibility of the European Security Council on this issue is tremendous. Before I left yesterday our Ministry of Foreign Affairs again published our position which is that we really would not like to express a view before the permanent members of the Security Council and our partners in NATO. Knowledge from this territory is very sensitive, given the history and personal contacts and the role played by some Slovak diplomats in this hot area during the past ten or 12 years. There must be a solution because if we wait for a long time it is not only about a final political solution, it is about potential political radicalism and some damage at the level of political structures.

What about Serbia and Montenegro?

Mr. Paska

I cannot answer that question. I know the territory. It was normal to visit these countries. Montenegro is very small. It would be difficult for a country with a population of only 500,000 to fulfil all the criteria. It would be much faster for Serbia, which is geographically bigger, has a larger population and is much more complicated politically. I am not sure if it would be possible to deal with both applications together, assuming we accept the referendum and split of the former federation. I will ask Mr. Csáky to answer the question about the KDH. This was the agenda of a former coalition government of Christian Democrats and Hungarians. It is not our agenda.

Mr. Csáky

This is now an excellent position for me. I can give information about the previous Government. I do not have responsibility for the current situation because I am in opposition. I see Senator Lydon is an expert on the Slovakian situation and he knows the details of our policy making process. As we are among friends I will make a personal observation. I have many friends in the Christian Democratic movement. They now have a strong internal crisis and are waiting for their party congress in June of this year. There are two groups in the Christian Democratic movement, both of which have a different position concerning the treaty with the Vatican. My opinion is that it was a mistake to push this question. The question is not now on the agenda. This is also accepted by the Catholic Church and by the Vatican. It is the current situation. The result of this debate within the Christian Democratic movement will be known in June.

I was in Crne Gora, Montenegro, before the referendum and I met the Prime Minister. We had emissaries there. Slovak diplomacy was very active in this process because the Balkans is one of our priorities. However, if we are democrats we must accept the result of the referendum. In the future of the Balkans we must accept the separation processes. After that, perhaps in 25 or 30 years, we must accept all the Balkan states as members of the European Union. This will be the final solution for the Balkan region.

A question was asked regarding the official position of the Slovak Government on the ratification of the EU constitution. I fully agree with the speaker. However, I do not see the solutions. It is nice to declare our ambition to continue with the ratification process but the question is one for the French President and for the French political elite. It will then become a question for the Dutch, British and Danish political elite and for the Czech Republic. There will be discussions with Madame Merkel and our great friend, Mr. Vaclav Klaus, who is a well known Euro-sceptic not only in the Czech Republic but also in the European Union. This is also a problem for the new Czech Government and political elite. It is a very complicated situation and I await new know-how from the side of Madame Merkel.

Slovakia has a border with Ukraine. Does Slovakia support the accession of Ukraine?

Mr. Paska

This is one of my priorities and I have invited the president of the commission, Mr. Moroz, chairman of Ukraine's Parliament to Bratislava for a summit in May. I gave him the possibility to introduce the project and vision of Ukraine. Political representation must continue on the European Union agenda because it is interesting. I visited Ukraine officially last November. I met representatives, at all three constitutional levels of power. I met President Yushchenko, Prime Minister Yanukovych and the chairman of Parliament, Mr. Moroz, and I received three positions. The only connecting issue was they would like to go to the EU but they differed on how to deal with the agenda. I invited them to the highest forum in Bratislava in May to meet 40 European Heads of State to outline what they are prepared for and how they would like to continue and they accepted. It will be an interesting matter.

For Slovakia, Crimea is the foreign office priority not only because of attaching Europe through an action plan and neighbourhood policy but because it is our biggest neighbour. We have a problem in that we are still battling over the Schengen Agreement. While Ireland is not a signatory to the agreement, one of the most interesting political issues for us is Slovakia coming under the agreement on 1 January 2008 because it was one of our political promises to the public before we entered the Union. We need strong co-operation with the Ukraine because we share 97 km of border with a complicated relief. Ukraine is like the western Balkans. It is one of the priorities in our relations.

I thank the delegation for attending. If the many Slovakian nationals living in Ireland have issues, will Mr. Paska ensure his ambassador lets us know? I also thank the ambassador for setting up the meeting and I hope the delegation enjoys the rest of its visit.

The joint committee went into private session at 1.05 p.m. and adjourned at 1.10 p.m. sine die.
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