I welcome our first delegation from the Serbian Parliament. I hope its members were not caught in traffic, a typical occurrence in this country. The normal format is that delegation members make an initial statement, which is followed by a ten minute exchange and some questions and answers. Is that agreed? Agreed.
Visit of Serbian Parliamentary Delegation.
Mr. Radojko Obradovic, MP
I thank the Chairman for this opportunity to visit the Irish Parliament and to be guests at this committee session. I am also grateful for the openness offered to us, which helped us to learn many details concerning the operation of the Irish Parliament. Such visits and talks of this kind are also very helpful for us in the Serbian Parliament to use the experiences of this committee's members and implement them at home. We are especially interested in learning more about the operation of the parliamentary committees because in Serbia the public is more interested in plenary sessions than in the work of such committees. Since we represent a significant parliamentary committee in Serbia, we are interested to know to what extent the Irish Parliament and this committee are involved in the matters relating to the European Union.
The committee has a major responsibility for engaging in all European matters with our Ministers, the Commission and all the other institutions of the European Union. Our work programme over the next 12 months will include an assessment of the Balkan situation with particular reference to updating ourselves on what is needed to ensure the Union and the Balkan states have an adequate understanding of each other's position. Mr. Obradovic and his colleagues can be assured we are more than anxious to engage with them as a committee of one of the parliaments in the Union that has always been involved in European relations, the relationship between the current and potential member states and, at least, engaging in the dialogue required for this. My colleagues have a number of questions.
I welcome the Serbian delegation. Ireland has had a good relationship with Serbia over the years and it is good that the delegation is before the committee.
The committee evolved following the defeat of the first Nice treaty. There was a view that European affairs were not promoted strongly enough in our Parliament and that there was an information gap regarding the workings of Brussels. The committee was set up to enable Ministers to inform us about what is going on in Brussels so that we can disseminate information to the public. It has worked successfully as a link between the parliament and Brussels.
I will put a few questions and we can sum up afterwards. The main issue of interest for us, and I am sure it is a topical issue in Serbia at the moment, is the 10 December date for the end of the talks on the future of Kosovo and Serbia. I am a member of the main Opposition party here. I would appreciate it if the delegation could answer some questions, but I will understand if it cannot. Our Government would like to see broad agreement between the groups involved, but it seems most unlikely that there will be agreement by 10 December. There is speculation that Kosovo may declare unilateral independence. What is the delegation's view on that and what is envisaged if that happens? I ask because members of our Defence Force are in Kosovo with KFOR and if the UN resolution for the peace force becomes null and void our military force would have to withdraw.
How does the delegation see Serbia's involvement with the EU in the future? Does it believe the EU is giving Serbia a fair hearing?
Mr. Radojko Obradovic, MP
I stress that this is a study visit by a delegation from the National Assembly of Serbia. Nevertheless, we should use the opportunity to get to know each other better. This delegation includes four members of the Serbian Parliament and four professional staff. Politicians should always talk about politics.
The MPs include three members of the opposition party: Mrs. Jorgovanka Tabakovic, Mr. Igor Becic and Mr. Zoran Krasic. I come from the ruling coalition.
The vast majority of MPs in the Serbian Parliament take a single stance on the issue of Kosovo. There is only one small party which joined the parliament at the beginning of this year which has a different view on the issue. It has only ten Members of Parliament.
There are many problems throughout the world. We are sure the European Union fully understands the situation in Kosovo, the history of the problem and the consequences of either solution which may be reached.
We have learned about the history of Ireland. What we have heard in the past two days reminds us of our own situation. If you look at your own history, I am convinced you will be able to understand the situation with which we are faced.
Serbia is a member of the United Nations and has its own territory, part of which is populated by the majority non-Serb population. Serbia is ready to offer to the ethnic Albanians living in its territory the highest possible level of autonomy that has ever been offered internationally. We are unified around the stance that Serbia will never allow another state to be created in its own territory. Serbia is a unique case of re-tailoring of international law and offering the possibility to a nation to have two and a half states. Albania is Albania's state. Kosovo Albanians want Kosovo to be their state and members know very well that almost half the population of Macedonia is Albanian. We had an opportunity to hear the US stance which was to the effect that international law was not a fixed category but can change with every new case. Humankind has endured much suffering to bring about international law and precedents of this kind will take us all back many years.
Deputy Timmins asked what consequences independence for Kosovo would have or if it was possible to reach an agreement.
After this reply I will invite another of my colleagues to reply. The debate can be extended in that way.
Mr. Radojko Obradovic, MP
There are no true negotiations because several major world powers are striving to recognise the independence of Kosovo. When one of the two parties at a negotiating table is very sure about the final outcome, in this case the recognition of independence by several major powers, that constitutes obstruction of the negotiations by that party.
I will close with one final sentence to allow my colleagues to state their views. Sometimes force can be stronger than law but Serbia will never recognise the independence of Kosovo or a unilateral violation of international law. Serbia's relationship with the European Union will depend on the latter's relationship with Serbia. We are very determined about that, whatever the consequences.
I propose to invite my colleagues to speak. Far be it from me to advise any delegation from any country but we have, unfortunately, much experience in this country of the issues about which the delegates have spoken.
I, too, welcome the Serbian delegation. As the Chairman stated, this is a study trip from which it is hoped the delegation will learn how we conduct our business. There is a large number of committees similar to this one which deal with the nuts and bolts of legislation in committee rather than plenary session. Each Department is shadowed by at least one committee. There are other committees which deal with specific issues. Joint committees which include Deputies and Senators deal with matters relevant to the line Department, including amending legislation and extending invitations to speakers and non-governmental organisations. They provide a forum for dealing with the business of Parliament separate from that which takes place in plenary session.
All political parties are represented on the committees of the Houses and work together as a team to resolve matters. The Joint Committee on European Affairs is complemented by what is known as the Joint Committee on European Scrutiny which, as the Chairman stated, was set up following Ireland's rejection of the first Nice treaty. The public perception at the time was that we did not, as a Parliament and country, provide sufficient information or ensure transparency in respect of European matters.
This committee scrutinises pending and draft legislation in Ireland and checks legislation presented and passed by the European Commission and the European Parliament with reference to subsidiarity and proportionality in respect of the domestic scene. We also deal with Ministers, such as the Minister for Foreign Affairs or the Minister of State with responsibility for European affairs who attend the European Council of Ministers, as do other committees, to check on what is being discussed, debated and agreed at the Council of Ministers. There are checks and balances in this committee.
The National Forum on Europe was established arising out of the perceived deficit in information provided to the people about European affairs. It has been established as a forum to discuss European matters and to provide an opportunity for a wide range of politicians, non-governmental organisations and what we call the social partnership of trade unions, business and farm organisations to discuss matters on a regular basis.
I will not say a word about Kosova or Macedonia, but could I ask the delegation about Montenegro. Has Serbia accepted the independence of Montenegro at this point? There is no need to answer.
I will now conclude with our submissions and then the delegation will have an opportunity to reply. We have eight minutes.
I am a student of history. I am quite conscious of the very strong role of Serbia in European history, going back to Archduke Ferdinand and the start of the First World War, and the brave manner in which Serbia fought against the German oppressors during the Second World War, almost uniquely winning as a guerrilla organisation. I am also conscious of the tragedies of the break-up of the country Yugoslavia and the follow on from that. We had significant difficulties in Ireland, and it was said that if you had the answer to the question, you did not understand the question. Eventually we found a strong and peaceful role through confidence building. However, Serbia has a great future. Croatia will join the European Union, Slovenia is already a member and I look forward to the day when Serbia will be. Nonetheless, it is a testing time because no matter what the people of Kosovo decide to do, the solution can only be found through peaceful means.
I welcome the delegation and will be brief. I like raspberries and understand Serbia produces one third of the world's crop. It is also a large exporter of frozen fruit. What are the threats and opportunities facing the Serbian economy, especially with a 20% unemployment rate?
Ms Jorgovanka Tabakovic, MP
Distinguished ladies and gentlemen, I thank you for your cordial reception. I am here as a representative of the Opposition party in the Serbian Parliament, namely, the Serbian Radical Party, which has one third of the Members of Parliament. I am also here as chairperson of the Serbian parliamentary finance committee, but we will be discussing financial topics tomorrow. I would like to make a few points about the most important topic for my country and me personally.
Until NATO forces arrived in Kosovo in 1999, I lived in Pristina as one of 250,000 Serbs and other non-Albanians. At the time I was a member of the Government of the Republic of Serbia. I had no personal enemies in Kosovo and Metohija, and I have none now. Today not a single Serb lives in Pristina because it is not safe for them there. My human rights and those of other people, which have been upgraded to the level of religion by international law, have been violated. International law, such as UN Resolution 1244, is the last bulwark of defence that must not be broken down. We will not recognise or agree to any form of separating one part of a state. The issue of Kosovo and Metohija will define our relationship with other countries and the EU as a union of European states. We expect all countries, EU members and others, to think about whether a similar case existed in the past and whether one will exist in the future. We count on Ireland's friendly support in the future. I thank the committee members for their attention.
Mr. Zoran Krasic, MP
I am pleased to have the opportunity to speak to this committee, but it may be difficult for members to understand the issues properly. Stereotypes and prejudice are difficult to break because sometimes they supersede the truth, especially in this first part of the struggle. However, once the fighting ends, truth always prevails. To give members an insight into the extent of the EU's error, it is even making a mistake concerning toponyms. It refers to this territory as "Kosovo", however it is called "Kosovo and Metohija". It deliberately omits or forgets the word "Metohija" because originally it denoted the territory under the administration of the church and monasteries.
As for the stereotypes, for example, ask anybody in the EU to name at least one ethnic Albanian cultural and historical monument in Kosovo and Metohija. One can ask members of the academy of arts and scientists, all the historians and even representatives of the Council of Europe who are writing the common textbook on the history of Europe where this single cultural and historical monument is located, but there is none. Do martians have a cultural monument in the Irish territory? Of course not. Should they have their own state in the Irish territory?
One knows what Jerusalem means to the Jews. Kosovo and Metohija means twice to the Serbs. It is not a matter of territory, but it is the soul of a nation. Our alleged friends from the Union favour the independence of Kosovo. The holy right to private property is not respected in Kosovo and Metohija to the detriment of the Serbs. Should this be protected in the form of independence? Those people who know the truth cannot just bypass the following statement: those who favour an independent Kosovo also favour freedom of trafficking in drugs, arms and humans and the destination market of such products is the united and rich Europe.
Not a single international standard is respected and observed in the territory of Kosovo and Metohija so those who favour independence of Kosovo are against international standards. Do members think that those who favour the independence of Kosovo perhaps do not know the truth? Serbia has always offered a wide ranging autonomy there, which used to be the case, but somebody wants to have a third state. If the European Union says "Yes" to an independent Kosovo, the European Union will trample on all its principles. This is why it is stated in UN Resolution 1244 that only the modalities of this broad ranging autonomy should be sought. The words "talks" or "negotiations" are not mentioned in this resolution. The issues of sovereignty, territorial integrity and independence have, therefore, been resolved. Kosovo and Metohija is part of the Republic of Serbia. We are speaking about human rights. This is what has remained, but some do not want to talk about it. Those who want to have another NATO state in the territory of the Balkans are prompting something that is totally contrary to modern civilisation and there is an orchestrated demand or request imposed on Serbia to join this disrespect for human rights. The example of Montenegro given was wrong. Approximately 50% of the population in Montenegro declare themselves Serbs. Montenegro was not separated from the territory of the Republic of Serbia. Montenegro was one of the former Yugoslav republics. Then the famous Mr. Badinter, the current Senator, in order to cover up the outside disintegration of the former Yugoslavia, applied the colonial principle of creating states in Africa.
We need to conclude the meeting. I understand Mr. Becic wishes to comment.
Mr. Igor Becic, MP
I would also like to greet the members of the committee on behalf of the largest opposition party in the Serbian Parliament, the Serbian Radical Party. Since I asked for the floor my colleague, Mr. Krasic, answered the question concerning Montenegro. I stress that, for the Serbian nation, Kosovo and Metohija is not just 12% of its territory, it is also Serbian tradition, Serbian spirituality and Serbian history. It would be like taking out the heart from a human being, and a human being cannot live without a heart.
I thank the delegation for attending and addressing the committee. We have another delegation so, unfortunately, we are short of time. I thank my colleagues for engaging. We in this Parliament are also keen students of European history. During my holidays last year I visited the Balkans. The aspect of the visit which most caught my attention was the number of cemeteries full of young men between the ages of 18 and 25. Hundreds of marble headstones carried the names of young men of identical ages but from opposite sides of the conflict. They were a mute testimony to what war means, especially at a local level. Ireland has experienced 30 years of conflict for which everyone blamed history or the other side. In the end we had to come to the conclusion that we could live in the past or look to the future. It was eventually agreed that we should look to the future.
We will, therefore, be a positive influence for Serbia in Europe.