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JOINT COMMITTEE ON EUROPEAN AFFAIRS (Sub-Committee on Ireland's Future in the European Union) debate -
Tuesday, 18 Nov 2008

Vol. 192 No. 4

Discussion with Professor Richard Sinnott.

I thank Professor Richard Sinnott for participating in the work of the committee and I particularly thank him for his attitude so far today. He was due to speak to us at 11.30 a.m. and has been good enough to wait since then. He has also been gracious about the inconvenience, for which I am very grateful. As he said, on this occasion politics had to come before political science.

The sub-committee was set up to examine Ireland's future in Europe. This session is unique in that we intend to look at how things stand at the moment and what guidance people's attitudes towards Europe can give us for the future. The professor will be aware of how we do our business and I hope I will be able to play a far less active role as Chair than the role I played this morning.

Professor Richard Sinnott

I promise that will be the case.

Is the transcript available yet?

I will have to keep an eye on my colleagues. We normally give ten minutes to our guest speaker but we will give more to Professor Sinnott because of the amount of information he can impart to us. After he has finished, each group will have ten minutes and anybody who has not spoken will be given the opportunity to do so.

Members of the sub-committee have absolute privilege, but this privilege does not apply to witnesses appearing before it. I invite Professor Sinnott to make his presentation.

Professor Richard Sinnott

I thank the Chairman and hope I will be able to make a contribution along the lines he suggests. In thinking about what I might present to the sub-committee, I decided the most useful contribution would be to go over the attitudinal background against which a referendum takes place in Ireland. I will make some European comparisons because they are quite relevant and then I will turn to the evidence from the survey of the Department of Foreign Affairs on what brought about the circumstances of the Lisbon treaty and what we can learn from it on a variety of fronts.

The overhead projector is rather small and it may be difficult to see, especially for Deputies Costello and Creighton. The first slide deals with referenda in Ireland on European issues. This is an unusual but important way of presenting the information. Instead of taking "Yes" and "No" voters as percentages of those who voted, they are taken, along with abstainers, as percentages of the electorate. To understand what happened with the Lisbon referendum one must first look at the first Nice referendum, which saw two thirds of the electorate abstain. By comparing the two figures, 21 and 19, one can see that the proportion of people voting "No" went down between the Amsterdam and Nice referenda. Yet the "No" side won the latter due to the huge rate of abstention.

It is crucial to note that this is not what happened with regard to the Lisbon treaty; turnout went up a fraction and only 47% of the electorate abstained. To appreciate the magnitude of the issues involved it is important to note the big increase in the "No" vote as a proportion of the electorate — it went up ten percentage points. This is something the sub-committee should consider as it differentiates the Lisbon referendum from other referenda. Prior to this, from the Maastricht referendum to the second Nice referendum, there was little movement in the "No" vote. People were inclined to assume that this would continue to be a stable situation. This turned out not to be the case and it contributed significantly to the result. I am here to be as objective as possible but I will say that the achievement of the "No" side was significant. It notched up a notable vote and saw a substantial increase after a substantial stable period.

The background to all of this in the presentation comes under the heading of Irish people's underlying attitudes to European integration. The top line is recognition that the country has benefitted: whatever we are, we are not ungrateful and we recognise the benefits of membership. The line below that is the basic measure of attitudes to the European Union and the question is "Is Ireland's membership of the European Union a good thing, a bad thing or neither?". That question is also asked by the Eurobarometer throughout Europe. It is worth examining the decline across member states in the view that membership is a good thing. This is obviously influenced in part by the accession states but something happened around 1990 or 1991 that started this decline, from which the EU has not recovered. If one were to pick a country in which to hold a referendum one might choose Ireland ahead of a country with support for EU membership that averages support of around 50%. The problem is a referendum also occurred in the Netherlands, which also has a high level of support for membership, and it was rejected.

A qualification should be made to these measures of support. The red line indicates the proportion of people who said they would be very sorry if the EU were scrapped. It is a measure of enthusiasm and there is quite a gap between the proportion saying they think the EU is a good thing and take the pragmatic view on membership, at around 70% or more, and the proportion who are enthusiastic. Arguably enthusiasm is needed to pass referenda. There are two ways to read the meaning of that red line. The question is not always asked by the Eurobarometer so it ends in the presentation at 2003 to 2004. To have this proportion claiming to be enthusiastic and that they would be sorry if the EU were scrapped is not bad. On the other hand, it is an important qualification to the overall level attitudes.

Some further European comparisons are worth bearing in mind. On whether one's future sense of identity is Irish only or Irish and European, the bar chart in the PowerPoint presentation shows that 63% of people in Britain say their future sense of identity involves nationality only, but there is a substantial proportion in Ireland also; therefore, part of our heritage of nationalism or patriotism expresses itself in this form and is an important qualification to the level of support for membership of the European Union.

A second factor that needs to be borne in mind is the question of knowledge of the European Union. This has come up time and again in coverage and discussion of the Lisbon treaty referendum. In this area Ireland is below average on the spectrum between having two correct answers and all correct answers. Ireland lags behind the EU 27 in terms of knowledge of the European Union. Irish people also lag behind the average European in terms of subjective knowledge. There is a range of countries where people have a much higher subjective sense that they know what is going on. That is also an important factor in a referendum context. People are right when they say this is not just a problem for Irish public opinion. The democratic deficit and communication gap with the public is something that we know the European Union is tackling, but it needs to tackle it very seriously both in countries that have referendums and in the majority that do not.

Turning back specifically to the Irish picture, indicated in my PowerPoint presentation is a strong urban-rural pattern in terms of turnout in the 2007 election. There was a lower turnout in certain areas. There was a lower turnout in Limerick East and in Galway. There is a parallel graph of the turnout in the referendum on the Lisbon treaty. In that graph the pattern is gone. It presents a rather unpatterned picture. The reason is what in political science is called drop-off, that is, voting in one election and not in the following referendum or local elections. In America, for example, people vote in the Presidential election and not in the mid-term elections. There is a definite pattern here. The darker the shading the greater the drop-off in voting between the 2007 elections and the referendum on the Lisbon treaty. There is an east-west or an east and south coastal pattern, but the drop-off was lower in Dublin and areas which are the hinterland of Dublin. Apart from Galway West, the drop-off was much heavier along the western seaboard and part of the midlands; therefore, there is an urban-rural distinction that is the opposite of what it is in general elections. Again, that is something that needs to be taken into account.

I will enter into what is called a multivariate analysis on a number of occasions but will keep it as brief as possible. There is a range of variables to examine to see what effect they have on the drop-off in voting in the referendum. The big factor is that the proportion of farmers in a constituency is closely associated with greater drop-off from a general election to a referendum. This is not the first time that has happened. I am not saying it is the farmers, but it is farmers as a proxy for more rural constituencies. I will come back to this at the end but it is definitely a factor.

The Labour Party managed to reduce the rate of drop-off on the basis of this analysis of constituency level results. That is probably the major inference to be drawn from it.

I refer to a PowerPoint presentation of a map of the "No" vote in the Lisbon treaty referendum. I will leave Galway aside as an area with a distinctly heavier "No" vote. Presumably because Laois-Offaly is the Taoiseach's constituency, in south County Dublin or Dublin South and Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown or the constituency of Dún Laoghaire, there is a pattern which, again, can be analysed with the same statistical technique and it shows a substantial working-class effect that we need to take into account if we are to understand the nature of what happened in the Lisbon treaty referendum. Without any survey, Government study or Eurobarometer polls, we would know definitely that there was a contrast in attitude to this referendum between middle-class and working-class voters, to which I will return.

The other factor is that Fianna Fáil contributed to lowering the "No" vote, that is, it contributed to increasing the "Yes" vote, and that Sinn Féin contributed to increasing the "No" vote. They are the only party contributions that come through in an analysis of the constituencies. Here we have the same relationship we noted. It is occupational class, except now we are looking at individual level data. There is a big contrast between the 64% voting "Yes" in the professional and managerial class, what is referred to by market researchers as the A-B class, down to the figures of 35% and 37% in what is broadly described as the working class. There is a confirmation at the individual level of this class contrast. The farmer column shows relatively little difference.

Why did those who abstained abstain? Why did people vote "No"? One way of finding out — it may seem odd to say this — is to ask them. Pollsters are sometimes wary of data such as these but it is the starting point. One simply puts the question in an open-ended way as to why the person did not vote or why they had voted "Yes" or "No". Comparing Nice I and Nice II and the Lisbon treaty referendum, one finds that the results for the Lisbon treaty are much closer to those for Nice I in terms of the reasons people abstained than in the case of Nice II. There is a big contrast between the two outer referendums, as it were, Nice I and the Lisbon treaty, and Nice II.

There is a similar contrast when one looks at the reasons for voting "No". The proportions are 39% in respect of Nice I and 42% in the case of the Lisbon treaty. To all intents and purposes, these are identical. Some 14% cited a lack of information as a reason in the case of Nice II. There was something distinctly different about the Nice II referendum. The step beyond the subjective account of why a person had voted "No" or "Yes" or abstained is to look at people's characteristics. An opinion poll allows one to know how and whether people voted but it also allows one to gather a lot more information about their attitude, social characteristics, etc. which can be matched. This provides information on the nature of a particular voting decision.

I refer also to the gender factor, which is small. However, it has been talked about as if it were substantial; no doubt in certain sub-categories of the population it may come across more strongly. There is a male-female contrast but it is barely statistically significant. On age, the differences are also small, although one suspects further analysis will lead to a bigger estimate of the age effect. There is not a huge difference. The over-65s are the most favourable. The 20-somethings and those in their early 30s seem to be the least favourable but the differences are not big of the sort evident when one studies people's identity. For people who said "Irish only", 32% voted "Yes"; for people who said "Irish and European", 55% voted "Yes". That factor we considered earlier is an important one.

In attitudes to neutrality, there is large difference between the proportion of people who say Ireland should do everything it can to strengthen its neutrality versus those who say it should accept limitations on its neutrality. There is a range from a 23% "Yes" vote to a 68% "Yes" vote. These are factors that were in the minds of people and influencing them.

In attitudes to immigration there is a similar span with pro-immigration and anti-immigration aspects. On the question of whether Ireland has become a better place to live with immigration, there is sharp contrast between the "Yes" and the "No" votes. The "No" vote ranges from 30% to 85% and an inverse pattern can be noted with the "Yes" vote.

We also need to examine people's subject of knowledge. Those who said they had a good understanding of what the treaty was about were 60% likely to vote "Yes". Those who said they did not know what it was about at all were 23% likely to vote "Yes".

Does this knowledge matter? If we look at a 2005 Eurobarometer survey, of those with little knowledge of the treaty, 36% were likely to believe their country's membership of Europe was a good thing, compared to 62% of those who had very good knowledge. As a colleague of mine put it in the title to an article, "To know it is to love it." There is certainly a relationship between knowledge of the European Union and positive attitudes towards it.

In the Irish aspect of this survey, of those with little knowledge, 58% were likely to believe their country's membership of Europe was a good thing compared to 81% of those who had very good knowledge. When this is compared to the Lisbon treaty "Yes" vote, it works out as those with little knowledge of the EU, 28%, compared to 63% of those who had very good knowledge. Knowledge is crucial in itself and the attitudes the people have. Knowledge is also problematic and, particularly in a referendum context, can easily go astray.

In the survey questions were asked about eleven items contained, or perceived to be contained, in the Lisbon treaty. Up to 65% believed the loss of an Irish Commissioner for five out of every 15 years was part of the treaty. At the other end of the scale, 33% believed conscription to a European army was part of the treaty. In between, the questions centred on various items that were in the treaty or perceived to be in it. The perception could be accurate, misled or misinformed. Regarding those who believed the loss of the Commissioner was in the treaty, 48% voted "Yes" versus 51% who voted "Yes" among those who said it was not in the treaty. In other words, there was no relationship between that perception and voting outcome. This is because many decided that even though they did not like this aspect of the treaty, it was part of the deal or a compromise and that they would vote "Yes". That is what accounts for there being no difference between people's perceptions and their voting decisions in that regard. However, among those who said conscription was provided for in the treaty, 33% voted "Yes" and 68% voted "No", while among those who did not see conscription as being provided for in the treaty it was the opposite — 61% voted "Yes" and 39% voted "No". Thus, these perceptions which take hold in the public mind to the extent that 33% of people thought the treaty provided for conscription to a European army can be very closely related to the outcome. I choose the words "closely related" for a reason to which I will return.

Among those who said the treaty involved an end to control over abortion policy, 67% voted "No", while among those who said it did not, 64% voted "Yes". On the issue of our right to decide our own corporation tax rate, the relationship was not as strong. Those who said the treaty did affect it voted "No", while those who thought it did not more strongly voted "Yes". On the erosion of Irish neutrality, there was a similar pattern, if somewhat stronger. Among those who said the treaty would erode Irish neutrality, only 33% voted "Yes", while 67% voted "No". The other side was an exact mirror image of this. Interestingly, in terms of the work of the sub-committee, there was also a relationship between people's beliefs that the treaty involved the strengthening of the European Parliament in EU decision making and whether they voted "Yes" or "No". Among those who saw this as being a provision of the treaty, 56% voted "Yes", while among those who were not persuaded that this was an element of the treaty, 38% voted "No".

With all that information, there is a sense of information overload. What we need to do, on which we are still working, is what is called a multivariate analysis which tries to bring all these variables into one framework of explanation, known as a model. In this way we can control for the effects of all the other variables and thus identify the real contribution of any particular variable in which one is interested. We are working on this multivariate analysis. However — I was thinking as I was coming in how I would put this — multivariate analysis is a little like conflict negotiation. There is an implicit rule that nothing is agreed until everything is agreed. Another metaphor one can use is that it is like building an arch out of stone; the arch is nothing until the capstone is put in place. It is a process that is still under way.

One of the main things that comes across in the analysis we have done so far is the role of knowledge in the whole process — not just that knowledge was important but that it had a large bearing on whether people turned out to vote and also how they voted. I will take a brief look at the channels of communication because that is something that is directly related to the level of knowledge people end up with. Again, we have a contrast between the Lisbon and Nice treaty referendums. In the illustration the red bar represents Nice I, the green bar, Nice II and the blue bar, the Lisbon treaty. The bars represent the degree to which voters said they had found any particular source of information helpful in making up their minds how to vote. These include TV news and current affairs, radio news, newspaper articles and discussion with family and friends. These are the main channels of communication in a referendum. There are other items such as the Government summary or White Paper, Referendum Commission publications, the National Forum on Europe, leaflets and brochures, Internet websites and posters in public places. However, they are all secondary to an interactive debate between the public and political leaders and campaigners which is reflected in television, radio and newspaper coverage and, very importantly, the degree to which voters tune in to this by discussing matters with family and friends. It should be noted that the red bars in the presentation are quite low. It was not a satisfactory referendum process in the case of Nice I. In the case of Nice II, the process was more satisfactory, as represented in the green bars. In the case of the Lisbon treaty, it fell back to almost halfway between the two Nice treaty referendum results. There was something less satisfactory about the Lisbon treaty referendum but it was not as bad as the Nice I referendum from the voters' point of view.

There is a strong difference between the publications of the Referendum Commission. They were unfavourably evaluated in the case of Nice I, quite favourably evaluated in the case of Nice II but unfavourably evaluated in the case of the Lisbon treaty referendum. The associated figures are 45, 30 and 31.

My last slide illustrates what we are doing with the data, over and above what I have presented. There is a multivariate analysis of voter drop-off. This examines individual evidence rather than constituency evidence. The dots on the horizontal bar chart are the estimates of the impact of variables on whether voters in a general election dropped out of voting in the referendum. The numbers to the right of the chart are major factors affecting voter drop-off. Two are outstanding, one of which is the age profile of 18-24 years. This is not a general phenomenon because these are young voters who voted in the general election but not in the referendum. This is a major contribution to the lowering of participation. The other contribution is the lack of objective knowledge of the treaty. If people felt that way, even if they were regular voters, they were more likely not to vote in the referendum. The knowledge factor affected two matters — participation versus abstention and "Yes" versus "No". Other factors are that farmers and those living in rural areas are less likely to vote in a referendum. Abstention is not limited to the 18-24 year category, it is also evident in the 25-34 age group. The other variables are less significant. The implications are that knowledge and understanding are crucial factors. This suggests there should be a process of long-term education, discussion and communication strategies in increasing understanding, whichever way people will vote. It would be better if they were voting "No" on a basis of a thorough understanding and knowledge rather than voting "No" because they did not know.

There is a long-term campaign need. It is a mistake to approach a referendum by analogy to a general election, whereby one names the referendum date and, while it is not as short as a general election campaign, it is quite short. In order for people to come to grips with the issues involved, a long campaign is essential. The counter argument is that people would be bored but at least they would be bored in an informed way. Perhaps aspects of the European Union are boring, something with which we must live. The crucial aspect is that people should be informed about the basic framework, institutions and processes of the European Union. There was something about the formula, presumably on both sides of the campaign because it takes two to make an argument, which was more satisfactory in the case of Nice II than it was for the Nice treaty or the Lisbon treaty. I am not equipped to tell members what that was but it is clear from the evidence.

It is evident from the range of evidence that the experience has put Ireland at the front line of something fundamental to the success of the European Union, namely, an engagement between the Union and the people of Europe. Bringing the European Union closer to the people may become very uncomfortable at times but is both necessary and something to which the Union is, as a whole, strongly committed. I thank the Chairman for his indulgence.

I invite Deputy Costello to speak. I will then call Senator Doherty, Deputy Creighton and Deputy Dooley.

I thank Professor Sinnott for making such a fine presentation and waiting so patiently for the opportunity. He has said there was a surprising increase in the number voting "No" compared to previous treaties. The graph seems to be flat until the Lisbon treaty, when the "No" vote increases substantially. Does Professor Sinnott have a factual, rather than speculative, explanation as to why the difference should be so marked? Did he examine the effect of the level of support for the Government of the day at the time of a referendum? Referenda are automatically led by the Government of the day as it determines the timescale and the process.

Professor Sinnott said the only party which had significantly brought down the number of "No" voters was Fianna Fáil. I did not catch what he said about the Labour Party in that regard. I was surprised that, in his discussion on voter attitudes and behaviour, he did not refer to one of the key areas of the Millward Brown-IMS report, namely, workers' rights and the perception that 40% of those who had voted "No" had done so because they regarded these rights as very important.

Professor Richard Sinnott

The Deputy asked for an explanation of the increase in the "No" vote. We have good comparative data for the three referenda and I tried to exploit these in my presentation but it is difficult to pin down the decisive change which brought about the "No" vote. My tentative judgment is that knowledge played a bigger role than it had in previous referenda. There is a danger that one might be misled by the fact that we now have better information on people's levels of knowledge; this is a caveat. The degree of knowledge and, by implication, the nature of the campaigns on both sides, which created perceptions and misperceptions regarding what was in the treaty and what the referendum was about, probably contributed to the imbalance between reliable and unreliable information and the degree to which unreliable information took hold among a segment of the population. This contributed to the 10% increase in the "No" vote. I say this with some qualifications.

All of the elements of the previous treaty campaigns were included in the Lisbon treaty campaign, bar one, Libertas. Is there any indication of whether Libertas was a major factor in the 10% increase?

Professor Richard Sinnott

There is no information that would enable one to state Libertas caused the 10% increase in the "No" vote. Different research designs would have been necessary from the beginning to address that question. Wisely, the decision was made that information on the influence of Libertas was not crucial. It was crucial to know people's beliefs and attitudes because they are the things that must be targeted in subsequent referenda.

The second question was on the effect of satisfaction with the Government on the outcome of referenda. A whole school of political science in this area says all referenda end up as plebiscites on the popularity of the government and there is learned literature in this regard. I do not subscribe to this view. A question on satisfaction with the Government was asked in the poll and it is part of the multivariate analysis on which we are still working. The evidence suggests it was a factor in how people voted, but not a major factor when one measures the relative impact of the different variables on the outcome. A variable measuring satisfaction with the Government played a role but so did 20 other attitudinal variables of various sorts.

There is another side of this coin. The evidence suggests that another contributory factor to the "No" vote was closeness or attachment to an Opposition party. Dissatisfaction with the Government was a factor but there is also a factor relating to partisan loyalty to the Opposition that must be taken into account.

On the basis of the analysis of constituency results, Fianna Fáil and the Labour Party made distinctive contributions to the outcome. There was an association between Labour's strength in 2007 and a break in the rate of drop off. Labour had a mobilising effect but the evidence does not say whether it was in a pro-treaty or anti-treaty direction. The Labour vote in 2007 was associated with higher turn-out in the referendum. The point on Fianna Fáil related not to turn-out and drop-off but to the "Yes" and "No" votes. Fianna Fáil contributed to reducing the "No" vote and increasing the "Yes" vote. I emphasise that these results are not based on a statistical analysis of the opinion polls but the results of the election and the referendum.

There are several measures of attitudes to workers' rights in the survey. I must caution that this multivariate analysis is not yet complete. While widely endorsed in various forms in the questionnaire, the connection between workers' rights and voting does not appear to be statistically significant. It is an issue about which people expressed concern but there is not much evidence that it had a substantial effect on the vote outcome.

The issue of the Commissionership was very much at the centre of the debate on the Lisbon treaty. Can Professor Sinnott explain why 51% of those who voted "Yes" believed the loss of a Commissioner would not result from ratification of the Lisbon treaty?

Professor Richard Sinnott

Let us put ourselves in the mind of the voter when considering the issue. The voter may take the view that it is not included in the treaty and vote "Yes" accordingly. Alternatively, the voter may take the view that it is included in the treaty but may believe, as I suggested, it is part of a package deal and will not want to unravel it on this issue. Despite having the view that there would be a loss of a Commissionership, the voter may have been prepared to support the package as a result of the collective decision of the people.

Did the question posed state the Lisbon treaty would result in the loss of a Commissioner?

Professor Richard Sinnott

The question was, "Which of the following do you think are included in the Lisbon treaty?" Eleven items were listed, the first of which was, "The loss of an Irish Commissioner for five out of every 15 years". It is the perception that it was included in the treaty that we measured.

Everyone knows that provision is included in the treaty. Some 51% of those who voted "Yes" believed it was not. While Professor Sinnott and others may be examining why people voted "No", I am asking why people voted "Yes". It seems that question was the one the highest percentage of "Yes" voters got wrong. If the Commissionership was such a large issue for the Irish people, does Professor Sinnott believe if more people who voted "Yes" were aware and informed about the loss of a Commissionership, the "Yes" vote would have been further reduced and the "No" vote increased?

Professor Richard Sinnott

The Senator is correct that this was the issue on which there was the greatest degree of consensus. Up to 65% of people said the Commissionership provision was included in the treaty, while only 9% said it was not. Some 26% did not know. Lack of knowledge was also a factor there. On the other point about how that would affect the outcome in terms of voting, I do not think we can go beyond the data other than to say there was no difference in the voting behaviour of those who recognised this was in the treaty but voted "Yes" anyway and those who recognised it was in the treaty but voted "No".

I understand it was quite split. However, I am not getting the explanation. Maybe there is no explanation. To me it is quite alarming that over half of those who voted "Yes" believed we would not lose a Commissioner. I wonder how that message got out to those who supported the treaty so that they believed the loss of a Commissioner was not part of the package.

Professor Richard Sinnott

With respect, what this chart is saying is that half of those who said it was in the treaty voted "Yes" and half "No", and among those who said it was not in the treaty it was 50:50. It is not giving the composition of the "Yes" vote; it is giving the relationship between the perception and the voting outcome. Those percentages are to be read vertically rather than horizontally. With respect, the Senator's line of questioning suggests he is reading them horizontally.

Professor Sinnott has taken out the "don't knows" from the percentages. If we excluded those who were undecided on the question, how would the figures have changed? In a number of the slides shown, those who voted "No" were the ones who did not have an opinion or were undecided on a question. I wonder how the percentages would have changed with regard to the overall number of people who cast their votes. Obviously there would be a different set of figures, but the analysis of those figures would have changed.

In the original slide Professor Sinnott took out those who abstained. If those who were undecided on the question were eliminated, how would things change? We tend to look at a question and believe we know the answer either way, and then we compare those who voted "Yes" to those who voted "No". In some ways those figures can be misleading — although that is the wrong word, because obviously they are accurate figures. If they were presented in a different way we could have a different evaluation of them. The percentage of the "No" vote would be reduced because more of the "No" side were undecided on the original question. They may have had other concerns such as the transfer of powers, the loss of the veto, or workers' rights, which were not the burning issues for them in the questions proposed.

Professor Richard Sinnott

That is a good question. The "don't knows" are left in for this variable. To be slightly technical, I will point out the independent variable which the Senator is assuming is the cause of the outcome, and also the dependent variable.

What the Senator is suggesting is that the dependent variable could also be calculated as the proportion voting "Yes", the proportion voting "No" and the proportion abstaining. Obviously the two numbers based on this would drop considerably. It would make for a much more complex task, in terms of analysing and interpreting the outcome, if one tried to analyse both abstention and the "Yes" and "No" vote in the same statistical model.

The usual way of presenting these results — that is why I stress that my first presentation of the results was unusual — is to set aside the abstainers and conduct an analysis of the "Yes" and "No" votes, and then to conduct a second analysis which contrasts abstainers with voters, keeping the two things separate. In terms of the overall clarity of the analysis that is probably a better way of going about it, but the point made by the Senator is an interesting one.

Professor Sinnott can see my point. Automatically, one will read that a higher percentage of "No" voters believed that conscription was included in the treaty compared to the "Yes" vote. Taking out those who were undecided on that question, the percentage would have dropped significantly because more of the "No" side were undecided. It is the same in regard to a number of slides.

Professor Richard Sinnott

Right.

I thank Professor Sinnott for his presentation. Some of the matters I hoped to raise were referred to by Deputy Costello. I accept Professor Sinnott's point on the influence of the Government on people's voting intention but, in terms of the potential influence in hypothetical future referendums, given that Government ratings have dropped so low in recent times, does he expect that this would have an impact on voting intentions on the basis of analysis carried out on Lisbon and previously?

Professor Richard Sinnott

It is a possibility. The other point to note on the influence of satisfaction with the Government is that it is relative to the strength of the political campaign that is conducted. An issue that is clearly defined and regarded as important is described by the political scientist as salient. In the case of a vigorous campaign on such an issue, voters are more likely to vote on the issues rather than on their attitude to the Government. Any such prediction must predict what the level of support for the Government will be in 12 months' time and, in order to see what the effect of Government popularity at that time would be, we would have to assume a strong campaign or a weak, poorly co-ordinated campaign. In the latter case, an unpopular Government with a poorly co-ordinated campaign, then the campaign is in trouble. In the case of an unpopular Government with a well co-ordinated campaign, the issues can be kept reasonably separate.

That is certainly informative. I am interested in the channels of communication. I raised this point previously in a different forum. It would be instructive to examine the influence of politicians and political engagement such as canvassing door to door and the type of campaigning that politicians engage in. It is not listed as one of Professor Sinnott's channels of communication. It is part of the television and radio element but I refer to the direct contact between local politicians and their constituents. Although it is only anecdotal, in areas where politicians bothered to get out to explain matters and make the effort to communicate with their constituents, we saw a more positive approach than in areas where politicians were not as active. Is there any data on this?

I refer to moral or social issues, which may be contained in Professor Sinnott's survey. Issues such as abortion, the family and family rights were raised during the campaign. Is there research on how these issues informed voting intentions?

Literature was referred to under channels of communication. Was any analysis undertaken on postering? The "Yes" campaign fell down on the postering campaign compared to the "No" side, which had effective postering as a means of communication.

Professor Richard Sinnott

I thank Deputy Creighton. On the question of data on door-to-door canvassing, the Deputy has raised an important question. It is well known and probably goes without saying in a forum such as this, the extent to which campaigning is crucial in a general election and how widespread it is. Political scientists recently produced what we think is pretty definitive evidence of that with regard to the 2002 general election. It comes as no surprise to politicians that the other factor that needs to be borne in mind as background to all of this is our estimate that 40% of voters are candidate rather than party voters. The implication is not an unreasonable one that leadership by individual incumbents in elected office, at whatever level, is crucial, given our political culture. On the question of data, we have data under the heading of "Canvassers called to my home campaigning for a "Yes" vote" and "Canvassers called to my home campaigning for a "No" vote" and there is no difference between the two rates of campaigning according to this data. In general, 15% of the population — not 15% of those canvassed — 15% of the electorate said this was very valuable or somewhat valuable. So there is some evidence in the study and certainly in light of the Deputy's question we will build that into our further analysis.

On the moral issue, we have the bivariate cross-tabulation of that and on the relationship between the perception that this was part of the treaty, there is quite a clear connection to the vote on that basis. We are still working on the analysis of that and one way of analysing it is to take that question along with the other 11 similar questions and build it into a general index of knowledge. The alternative is to look at them as 11 separate items. Statistically and substantively, what is important is the index of perception and misperception and a measure of the knowledge that was out there and the accuracy of that knowledge. Just on a bivariate relation analysis as is shown in the PowerPoint presentation, there is undoubtedly a relationship, whether that is a causal relationship is more difficult to determine but there is a relationship between how a person voted and whether a person believed this item was in the treaty or not.

On the postering question, the assessment by the electorate of the postering campaign was evenly split in this data. On the other hand, other data from the Eurobarometer survey indicated clear perception of a better campaign in general being conducted by the "No" side. I cannot recall whether it specifically goes down to the question of postering but on the data collected from the question, "Could you please evaluate the following, including posters on poles and billboards for the "Yes" side and posters on poles and billboards for the "No" side", there is no difference between the rate at which people evaluate each of those as being helpful or unhelpful. In general the rate tends to be low. About 15% of people found that helpful and more or less equal number on each side responded in that way.

I will be brief because most of the issues have been raised. I thank Professor Sinnott not just for his presentation but for his ongoing work through various public fora in assisting us towards an understanding of the attitudes of people towards this and other matters.

One point that has not been raised is to do with the gender issue. There is a perception that women voted in greater numbers for a "No" than a "Yes" outcome and that there was a greater number of younger women voting "No". Has there been any analysis of the issues of greater importance to female voters and various age groups?

Professor Richard Sinnott

Not as such. Our perception was that there was only a minor general gap. To a politician, a five percentage point gap ultimately decides elections. From a statistical point of view, that is not much of a contrast; therefore, it would not have been considered too relevant to probe the issue, except in one respect. On the abortion question, we categorised the variable in an interaction effect where we took into account older and younger women, men versus women and combination of both as a way of getting at the influence of the attitude to abortion as measured in the survey. Somewhat to our surprise, that did not come out. In other words, one cannot say abortion is a larger issue for older people than younger people and, in particular, women. That does not show up in this statistical analysis.

While I accept it is anecdotal evidence, the conscription issue seemed to rankle on the doorsteps, particularly among women. It was suggested to me that there was an opinion forming process, whereby the mother had indicated to the family that there was a concern about conscription. Is there any finding in the research that might park this issue or give it further credibility?

Professor Richard Sinnott

There is certainly evidence of a relationship between the perception that conscription was provided for in the treaty and the referendum outcome. This could be linked with the data on discussions among families and friends to examine whether the perception of conscription being provided for in the treaty is stronger in that group. Arising from the Deputy's question, we will examine whether there is a contrast between the views of men and women on the perception of conscription.

Yes, it was suggested information was emanating from some of the social networking sites in the electronic media that conscription was a major issue. It is considered there is greater female participation on these sites. While it may not ultimately have been that there was a greater number of females than males voting in a particular way, it seemed to be the channel through which information was gathered and disseminated.

Professor Richard Sinnott

That is interesting because the study did look at the use and evaluation of electronic media, in particular, the Internet. To my surprise, there was no increased usage in the Lisbon treaty referendum since Nice I or Nice II. This did not anticipate the Obama-type phenomenon. Presumably, we will see this reflected in future campaigns.

I welcome Professor Sinnott. Has his analysis of the referendum results given any indication as to the specifics as to why people voted "Yes"? The sub-committee received another paper which suggested people who had voted "Yes" tended to do so on a global feeling that membership of the European Union was good for Ireland.

It is unclear whether some of that was an economic analysis — the idea that Ireland's membership of the European Union had been good for Ireland in economic terms. However, it appears that many Irish people, traditionally, have supported the European project, largely on the grounds that it represented opportunities for the economic modernisation and development of this country. Was that a finding of Professor Sinnott's analysis? Could he comment on whether that might have been the main reason people voted "Yes"? Does he feel a new narrative is necessary with regard to the promotion of membership of the European Union as a positive thing? Does he think that perhaps the traditional arguments or reasons for this country's supporting the European Union may, particularly after a period of prosperity such as we experienced during the Celtic tiger years, have less purchase with the Irish people? Is there a need for a new narrative to convince people of the merits of ongoing membership of the European Union, and does he have any suggestion as to the components of that narrative?

Professor Richard Sinnott

That is a demanding array of questions, if I may put it that way. On the basic factual question of why people voted "Yes", if we take as the starting point of the analysis — as I outlined in my presentation — the subjective reports by the respondents as to why they behaved as they did, there is a contrast between the reasons for voting "No" and the reasons for voting "Yes". The reasons for voting "Yes" tend to be global, to use the Senator's term. They tend to be general expressions of agreement with the direction of European integration. They are broad positive sentiments. In one sense they are the translation of the graph of approval of membership which I showed at the beginning. It is that segment — or perhaps the segment represented by the red line — that is in favour of unification for reasons based on experience and overall approval, without specifying particular content. That was a contrast between the "Yes" and "No" sides. I am not suggesting that one should criticise that viewpoint. It is a perfectly valid viewpoint — this is part of our world, we are in it and we are doing well from it. More than 70% approve of membership and 80% see benefits flowing from it. It is an expression of the majority view, in a sense, and that is what people turn to when they seek, in answer to the interviewer's question, to express the reasons for their vote.

Another part of the explanation, however, is that the statistical analysis shows that just as certain factors led to a "No" vote, the opposite of those factors led to a "Yes" vote. The negatives of all of these attitudes — attitudes to neutrality, to immigration and to the degree of regulation by the European Union — led to a "No" vote, but the rejection of those negative arguments was what underpinned the "Yes" vote.

The Senator asked about a new narrative. I am hesitant to enter into that terrain because my belief is that the best one can do with the evidence, in which I have some expertise, is to look at what happened. It is for others, essentially, to build the political programmes and formulate the new narratives that may bring a change in behaviour. The fundamental point is to understand the factors underlying the decision.

We are talking about attitudes and behaviour. All the data is compiled post factum. One had a campaign which effectively continued, in one form or another, from the signing of the treaty in December 12 months earlier. I presume many of the responses in the data were determined by the view people took at the time the questions were asked. The further removed from the events, the more questionable the data might appear to be.

This is probably the first treaty on which we have such intensive analysis, the Eurobarometer, the Millward Brown analysis and so on. You might comment on that. Has there been any analysis in the other countries which voted "No", such as France and the Netherlands? Denmark had a similar experience to ours in that they voted twice.

Professor Richard Sinnott

There are a number of questions about the nature and extent of the available evidence and data. There is a danger in any research of this sort that the context in which the questions are posed will have an effect on the responses. There is much research literature on that. Delay is not necessarily the only factor. In this instance, I recall that a decision was made not to run the survey at the earliest possible point because that was the week of the visit of President Sarkozy. That would have created a context which could have affected responses and attitudes. The Eurobarometer survey after the Lisbon referendum, because it used a different methodology — telephone polling — could be done immediately and it got the response immediately after the event. I think they were surveying on the Sunday after the referendum. There was a lapse of a month at least before the Department of Foreign Affairs survey was conducted. It can have advantages and disadvantages. The immediate shock of the outcome of the referendum will have one effect; there may be another effect when people are interviewed six weeks later. All you can do as an analyst of this evidence is weigh up the circumstances and the likelihood of their being affected. In some instances one segment of the sample may have been interviewed before an event and another segment after the event. That is not the case in this instance, but you can imagine such situations. There is a simple recall factor. If you are analysing voting behaviour six months after the event, people may remember, depending on the strength of their feelings on an issue, whether they voted "Yes" or "No" in a referendum, but they may not remember the reasons they did so or how they voted in a particular election when a long period has passed.

There are more data and there is a more active culture of inquiry into these kinds of issues, both within the European Union and its institutions and within government, but also externally. There is much more interest in these kinds of analysis. No doubt there will be further analysis of this same body of data when the Government and the Department of Foreign Affairs have published the report commissioned for them. There is a Eurobarometer report on the French and the Dutch referendums which can be downloaded from the Eurobarometer website. We have requested that data because it would be very useful to do the kind of comparison you have in mind between the Dutch, the French and the Irish referendum and outcome. For that we need access not just to the report but to the raw data and we hope to have that data presently.

I agree regarding the Danish comparison. A close colleague of mine in the University of Aarhus has done a lot of work on referendums. He and I have discussed these matters informally and those discussions have ended up in publications in various places. We have never been able to design a comparable survey after two comparable referendums in Denmark and Ireland. Given the remarkable similarities and differences in Danish society in comparison to Ireland, it would be a very interesting exercise.

All the questions on my list have been asked by my colleagues. There is just one outstanding question. Did you survey the effectiveness of electronic media in influencing the opinions or decisions people made?

Professor Richard Sinnott

Only in respect of the channels of communication. There is a section on the questionnaire about Internet and websites found useful in coming to a decision. It surprised me that this was positively evaluated by only 10% of the population.

It is a very low figure in comparison to the other factors.

Professor Richard Sinnott

I agree that it is a surprisingly low figure. The introduction to that question states:

There are many different ways in which people get information in relation to referendums. I have a list here of several possible sources of information. Please say how useful, if at all, you found each of them in the lead up to the Lisbon treaty on 12 June.

Do you have that information available per age group?

Professor Richard Sinnott

That could be cross-tabulated to see, for example, how those under 25 responded. I will be going away with a list of things to do.

While 10% is very low, within certain groups such as those under 25 it could be a decisive factor.

Professor Richard Sinnott

Certainly.

Do you have information as to why people voted as they did according to party affiliation? If I ask to see that information for Fine Gael or Fianna Fáil voters, is the information yet available?

Professor Richard Sinnott

You mean that we could take out the data regarding particular party supporters and make that available?

Professor Richard Sinnott

That would be quite possible. I think it will happen when the data are released. I think it is the intention to release the data through the Irish social science data archive. Individuals, parties or groups will be at liberty to do that analysis themselves.

Thank you, Professor Sinnott, for your contribution and for bearing with us for the day.

Sitting suspended at 2.55 p.m. and resumed at 3.15 p.m.
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