JOINT COMMITTEE ON EUROPEAN UNION AFFAIRS debate -
Thursday, 20 Oct 2011

School-Business Partnerships: Discussion with Business in the Community Ireland

Chairman

Apologies have been received from Deputy Timmy Dooley and Senator James Heffernan.

The first item on our agenda is the discussion on the role of national school and business partnerships in delivering the EU 2020 strategy targets on education and training. On behalf of the committee, I welcome Ms Germaine Noonan, programme manager of the schools business partnership of Business in the Community Ireland. She is accompanied by her colleague, Mr. Thomas Sercovich, manager of the member services team dealing with the Business Working Responsibly Mark.

Members will be aware that education and training have a key role in the EU 2020 strategy. School business co-operation is a new initiative from the European Commission under the EU 2020 strategy. Co-operating with outside partners, including businesses, will help schools to improve education. The delegation will address the committee on the school business programme operated by business in the community Ireland which has been showcased as an example of European best practice. I met Ms Noonan at a meeting organised by the chambers of commerce and was impressed by the material she presented. The work being done is very valuable.

Members are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that members should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the Houses or an official either by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable. By virtue of section 17(2)(l) of the Defamation Act 2009, witnesses are protected by absolute privilege in respect of the evidence they are to give this committee. If they are directed by the committee to cease giving evidence in relation to a particular matter and they continue to so do, they are entitled thereafter only to a qualified privilege in respect of their evidence. Witnesses are directed that only evidence connected with the subject matter of these proceedings is to be given and they are asked to respect the parliamentary practice to the effect that, where possible, they should not criticise nor make charges against any person, persons or entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable.

I invite Ms Noonan to make her opening remarks.

Ms Germaine Noonan

I thank the Chairman for inviting us here today. We met a number of members in Buswells Hotel in June. I am the schools business partnership programme manager at Business in the Community Ireland. I have been seconded there since 2003 from a school in Drumcondra. My colleague, Mr. Thomas Sercovich, is our membership services manager.

Business in the Community Ireland is the leading business network to work with companies on corporate responsibility. We work with them on their corporate responsibility journey and help them improve their sustainability practices. Mr. Sercovich and I are delighted to be here with a good news story for Ireland, which is important and beneficial to the committee.

Since the conversation arose ten years ago, the schools business partnership has been matching schools at risk, that is, school completion programme schools, with large corporations and engaging them in many programmes. We are concerned with educational inclusion and bringing the power of business to bear on that. We have six programmes: skills at work; student mentoring; management excellence for principals; management excellence for teachers; time to read for primary school students; and work placements.

We have outlined the macro factors in the briefing document. The logos are a who's who of Irish business, from the multinational sector and successful indigenous companies. More than 18,000 students have participated. We opened our principals development programme to all 733 post-primary schools, not just those at risk. They love it and two thirds of them have participated in the programme.

In terms of bringing a person's story to life, the committee can see some pictures in the presentation. One shows students from Crumlin with John Sisk & Son. They watched the Aviva stadium being built. I was in Ballygowan yesterday. It is a fabulous Irish brand and another picture shows students on a site visit in Newcastle West. The ESB is showing off its electric car to students in Ballyfermot. Remarkably, Cisco Systems in East Point business park had a video conference from the UK with local students in Marino College showing them how to prepare for interviews. It is fantastic and positive.

The key success factor for Ireland over the past decade has been the support of Government. It is a true partnership at local, regional and national level. Ministers have always supported it and it is a bedrock. Our partnership with the Department of Education and Skills and our future partnership with the Department of Children and Youth Affairs involve openness, honesty and trust.

The programme has been showcased as a model of best practice at European Commission and OECD level. The French and Czech presidencies showcased it. I was in the Czech Republic a month ago and it is now replicating the model. Representatives have come to Ireland and we have shown it to them. The last European Commissioner for education, training and culture, Ján Figel, invited Batt O'Keeffe to make a statement to the European Council of Ministers in May 2010, which was remarkable. The Commission is very interested in the project. What Ireland is doing is second to none and is leading the way in member states.

Some of the comments made by participants are contained in the presentation. The students love it and feel it is helping them. It is as good for business as it is for schools in Ireland and they get just as much out of it. There is a new openness in school leadership in Ireland. There is a thirst for learning and people are interested in breaking down the walls with businesses to hear how business leaders approach the leadership and management functions.

We conduct evaluations annually with all our stakeholders. The feedback loop is critical for continually improving what we are doing. I am interested in hearing what the committee thinks we should be doing. It is a matching funding model. The Government pays half and all participating businesses pay. We have a fabulous lead sponsor in Marks and Spencer Ireland.

In terms of the EU 2020 strategy, as we know, the Council has set out that education and training are a fundamental part. The two major initiatives are youth on the move and the agenda for new skills and jobs. What Ireland is doing dovetails with that. The schools business partnership is trying to reduce the dropout rate from 14% to 10%. We are trying to have closer collaboration between the public sector, industry and education.

We are also assisting on the European platform against poverty because the students we work with are those most disadvantaged and at risk. We are assisting the European Commission on its headline target. The committee has a great opportunity to promote what Ireland is doing. We would like to assist it. I will hand over to Mr. Sercovich to discuss the Business Working Responsibly Mark.

Mr. Thomas Sercovich

I thank the committee for the opportunity to make my presentation. I will be brief and will discuss the EU 2020 agenda. That agenda is about delivering an economy and society that is smart, sustainable and inclusive. As Ms Noonan said at the beginning of her statement, our organisation has always been about raising standards for businesses in terms of responsible and sustainable business practices.

Within that framework, we launched a certification scheme last March called the Business Working Responsibly Mark. It is the only scheme of its type in Ireland and one of the very few in Europe which enables a company to measure its performance in respect of responsible business practices. This is done by way of third-party audit, which is delivered by the National Standards Authority of Ireland, and businesses receive a certification in recognition of their compliance. It is a very comprehensive and robust system. We have been working for years with businesses which sought recognition for what they were doing and for their role as leaders in this area. That is why we launched this certification scheme, which is robust, independent and transparent.

There is no similar scheme at European level. As such, there is a great opportunity for Ireland to show leadership and to demonstrate that through schemes such as this, there is great scope to assist businesses in delivering on the EU 2020 strategy. Members will be aware that the European Commission is due to issue a communication next month on corporate social responsibility. One of the key elements of that communication will be a call on all member states to develop a national action plan on corporate responsibility. Ireland does not currently have such a plan. There is a great opportunity for this country, first, to learn and take on what is best in class and, second, to develop practices which will encourage, promote and recognise responsible business practices. Business in the Community Ireland is keen to assist the committee on that journey.

Last week we presented four companies with their first certification, as shown in the slide. To reiterate, there is a great opportunity for further promoting and enhancing responsible business practices, an issue on which Ireland could show the way. I will be pleased to answer any questions members may have.

Ms Germaine Noonan

Our board comprises some of Ireland's top business leaders. The chairman is Kieran McGowan, former head of the IDA and currently chairman of CRH; our vice chairman is Padraig McManus, chief executive officer of the ESB; and Paul Rellis, managing director of Microsoft Ireland, is also a member. They are outstanding people who are totally committed to our mission. Business in the Community Ireland seeks the committee's support to continue financing the schools' business partnership programme, to highlight it as a unique partnership model in Ireland and promote it in Europe, to recognise and support our Business Working Responsibly Mark, and to ensure we are at the table to develop the national action plan on corporate responsibility.

Chairman

I thank the delegates for their interesting and informative presentations. They are engaged in important work. In particular, matching schools with corporate entities through a mentoring programme allows the business community to link up with the formal educational system and engage with pupils at an early stage. I also welcome the delegates' valuable work in the area of best practice in the corporate area. I understand Business in the Community Ireland has been in operation for some ten years. If I recall correctly, I attended the meeting at which it was established. It is a great initiative.

Will the delegates elaborate on the support they are seeking from this committee? I assume some of that refers to support on a resource basis. In regard to the EU context, will the delegates indicate whether or not they have had any discussions with the Irish Commissioner, who has the research, innovation and science brief, and whether there is scope for some resource response and greater engagement in that regard?

Senator Terry Leyden

I welcome Ms Noonan and Mr. Sercovich. I am delighted to hear about the schools' business partnership scheme, of which I was previously unaware, but I notice that no schools in Roscommon or Leitrim are involved. The majority of participating schools are in Dublin. What promotion have the delegates undertaken in regard to bringing the scheme to the attention of school principals and boards of management throughout the State? It is an excellent project, but I am surprised that no school in Roscommon or Leitrim has availed of it. I would be happy, with the assistance of the delegates, to alert schools in my area to the scheme. Do the delegates visit schools to promote it? I presume they deal with post-primary rather than primary schools, but do they concentrate solely on transition year students?

Ms Phil Prendergast, MEP

I thank the delegates for their interesting presentations. This week in Brussels I met with the European Movement in Ireland to discuss its work in making European issues more accessible to the public. The newly opened parliamentarium of the European Parliament is a very exciting project with a significant interactive element. It appeals to young people because of the fancy lights and technological bells and whistles. It includes films of various MEPs, the countries they represent and the committees on which they serve. As such, it offers a fundamental understanding of the entire workings of the European Union.

Senator Leyden has already asked some of the questions I wished to raise. There is a huge opportunity to facilitate a more active engagement between MEPs and students as part of Business in the Community Ireland's schools' business partnership programme. Visits to schools, particularly those with disadvantaged students, is something we could consider in the future. The initiative is very exciting and I note that a significant number of Munster schools are involved. Any scheme which helps to engage students in terms of seeing how businesses work, and their responsibilities and obligations, including in a European context, is a positive development.

Senator Fidelma Healy Eames

I welcome the delegates. I became aware of this initiative last June when Ms Noonan delivered a presentation in Buswells Hotel. The delegates are meeting an important need. I have worked in schools, as a teacher educator going into classrooms and I also had my own business where I was assisting students in aspects of learning. We have a very exam-driven system at second level and the missing piece relates to creativity, innovation and entrepreneurship.

However, as Senator Leyden observed, there is a lack of public awareness about what Business in the Community Ireland is doing. Last year the Oireachtas education committee undertook a major study on early school leaving and the organisation was not mentioned in any of the schools with which we engaged. That is a major difficulty. There must be a national spread if the initiative is to have an impact. I notice that Aviva is working with Galway community college. In the context of the references by the delegates to businesses working responsibly, is it intended that Aviva will continue, now that it is downsizing its operations in Ireland, to participate in this scheme? Many would be of the view that it has not worked responsibly with its employees and in terms of its corporate responsibility to the country.

How do the delegates intend to improve awareness of the work they are doing? Will they expand on the Time to Read programme? Is it geared towards primary school students?

The need to ensure that funding remains in place is the main reason the delegates are present. Their organisation's goal of delivering for the economy and society is both credible and necessary. This is an ideal project to be co-funded by Ireland and the EU Commission. The Chairman highlighted the fact that Ireland's EU Commissioner, Ms Maire Geoghegan-Quinn, holds the research, innovation and science portfolio. I am aware, from the discussions we had with her during our visit to Brussels, that the Commissioner is very interested in this area. The Young Scientist Exhibition is very popular in this country. I have given consideration over a long period to how we might stimulate creativity, which is the precursor to innovation, enterprise and entrepreneurship, and have reached the conclusion that we require a young innovators' scheme. Would Ms Noonan's organisation be interested in examining the possibility of establishing such a scheme? I would be interested in examining this possibility.

Chairman

I wish to point out that the main reason for this meeting does not relate to funding. That is not why Ms Noonan and Mr. Sercovich are before the committee. They are here to make a presentation in respect of the programme their organisation is conducting.

Senator Fidelma Healy Eames

I accept that.

Deputy Seán Kyne

I welcome Ms Noonan and Mr. Sercovich. I commend them on the programme, which appears to be excellent in the context of educating young people in respect of business and, hopefully, their future roles in the business sector. Did the programme begin as a pilot project in Dublin? Programmes normally commence in the capital because the uptake is generally higher than in other parts of the country. Does Business in the Community Ireland approach businesses or are the latter sufficiently aware of the programme that they get in contact and volunteer their services? Do any of the students who participate in the programme subsequently obtain employment with the companies with which they are initially placed?

Ms Germaine Noonan

In the context of Senator Leyden's question, we do not choose the schools. They are chosen from the Department of Children and Youth Affairs's school completion programme. The Government determines which schools are involved in the SEP programme. Essentially, they are DEIS schools. It is good we that do not choose them because we would not wish to do so. The good thing with regard to Leitrim and Roscommon is that there is very little drop-out there. That is why we are not involved in much work in those counties. We obtain the list of schools from the Department and we then source the business. In essence, we examine which businesses are located close to the schools and which would be deemed suitable. We tend to use businesses that have CSR strategies. However, having heard about the programme, Proctor & Gamble literally came in off the street because it wanted to become involved. Therefore, it is a mixture.

Given that drop-out occurs at senior cycle, we are currently focusing our energies there. However, we are considering taking a preventative approach and launching a programme for second years. The position in this regard is currently being researched.

Ms Phil Prendergast, MEP, referred to Ireland's MEPs being involved with the students. I am very interested in her suggestion. Such a connection would be a great development because it would broaden the students' horizons.

In the context of what Senator Healy Eames stated, the situation at Aviva is very interesting. The company fully committed itself to its three partner schools two months ago and the planning meeting took place in Galway. As a result, the programme is planned and that is excellent, particularly as those involved are aware of the potential impact on students and those at risk.

One of the reasons we are here today relates to awareness levels. Not many people know about our organisation. The reality is that the media are not interested in many good news stories, of which this is one. However, the important players - the Government and the EU Commission - are aware of us. We would welcome assistance with regard to raising the level of awareness about us.

In the context of trying to assist innovation, we are conscious of the activities of Junior Achievement Ireland, Young Social Innovators and BT Young Scientist and Technology Exhibition. We are trying to ensure that we have the maximum impact. Entrepreneurship is not one of our aims. We are focused instead on showing the students the world of work, highlighting career opportunities and demonstrating how they can break down barriers in their lives.

Deputy Kyne inquired about follow-up. A student addressed our mentoring event in June, at which the Minister for Education and Skills, Deputy Quinn, was present, and indicated that he had worked on a part-time basis with Irish Life & Permanent while also studying for a business degree at NCI. He stated that when he obtained his qualification, he took up another position with the company. There is huge commitment on the part of businesses to try to maintain contact, particularly as a follow-up to the mentoring programme. It is by means of the mentoring programme that businesses develop close relationships with individual students.

The programme originally developed on foot of a conversation. Mr. Joe Kennedy from the school completion programme asked our then chairperson, who was head of Marks & Spencer in Ireland at the time, whether business could help at-risk students. As a result of the consequent conversation, the programme was launched on a pilot basis in Dublin and Cork. It took off from there. The programme makes sense because when we were all in school, I am sure we would have loved to have our own mentors.

Senator Terry Leyden

It is amazing that Business in the Community Ireland relies on the Department to choose the schools. St. Jarlath's college in Tuam and St. Aloysius in Athlone have better records than any other schools of which I am aware in the context of attendance. However, schools in Leitrim and Roscommon have not been included on the programme. The programme is good enough to extend to other schools, not on the basis of the criteria used by the Department but rather because it can be of benefit to students. I am not merely referring to those who leave school early in this regard but also to students in other schools. I cannot understand what is being done in this regard. I read the list and the information that Business in the Community Ireland is receiving is not accurate. I am going to promote the programme directly to the schools themselves. I do not believe that the criteria used by the Department are fair.

Senator Fidelma Healy Eames

Are all schools on the school completion programme definitely included on the list? There is merit in the proposal to extend the programme to all schools. Every child has a right to know about the world of work, be it as an employee or an employer. Involvement with the programme gives students a valuable insight into the area of employment.

Chairman

What the Senators are suggesting would be a huge job because there are a lot of schools in the country.

Ms Germaine Noonan

We have been working towards targets. In the first five years, we tried to get the first 100 schools in the school completion programme matched. By the end of 2009, we extended this to 167. Last year, we agreed with the social inclusion unit to take on another 40 schools. That brought us up to over 200 and at present there are 212 schools involved. I fully agree with Senator Leyden. My own vision for Ireland is that every school should have a business partner. If that were the case, it would be very beneficial. However, we began our work where it would have the most major impact, namely, with those who do not have the type of personal network within their own lives by means of which they might gain access to the business world.

Chairman

Does Business in the Community Ireland plan to expand its programme to the entire country during the next ten years?

Ms Germaine Noonan

No. Our target for the next three is to match the 200 schools on the school completion programme. We would be excited to engage in a conversation relating to the matter to which the Senators and the Chairman refer. It is remarkable how our programme expanded within the first decade. What occurred is a testimony to the commitment of those on the education side and their counterparts on the business side.

Deputy Joe O’Reilly

Like previous speakers, I am of the view that this is a great concept. It is important that every school should be placed in a community context. It is also important that each school should have links with business and with those involved in local economic activity. I see great merit in pupils having placement experience, an awareness of the world of work and a focus thereon. A number of programmes such as the transition year programme in schools provide a level of that experience but this scheme, as it is constructed, is excellent.

Despite the idyllic nature of the area I represent and the wonderful features of that region, I find it amazing there are not schools in the Cavan-Monaghan region that would qualify for this programme. There needs to be a more reasonable dispersal of the programme in schools and access to it. Awareness of it needs to be considerably increased.

Chairman

Members will not rest until schools in their constituencies are in the programme.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan

Given the economic climate in which we live, to what extent has it been envisaged that it may be possible to expand the programme? I would be in agreement with the concept, which is a good one, but I would be anxious to ascertain the results over a range of the schools. The promotional material indicates that the results are good and the potential exists for good results, but some of the schools are in severely disadvantaged areas and I would like to know the extent to which progress has been achieved towards improving the status of some of those schools. It is not possible in all cases to bring them to the level of reaching an equilibrium but it is possible to make strides towards that. That is what I would be most concerned about.

The general aspiration to spread the concept nationwide is a good one and I presume if more sponsors were secured from the business sector throughout the country, that would be a possibility. I am conscious of the difficult economic climate in which we live. The witnesses need to plan for the future with that in mind. In other words, they need to encourage the business sector to become more involved as it is in their best interests to assist and enhance the educational system with a view to creating a finished product, for want of a better description - a student or an executive who will meet their requirements in the business world. Those requirements are changing daily. I hope that all the failed business models we have seen in recent years, the details of which I do not need to go into, will not be regurgitated in the course of any training or indoctrination of students in the future.

Deputy Pádraig Mac Lochlainn

The witnesses invited Oireachtas Members to attend a presentation they gave in Buswells earlier this year and I took up that opportunity. I was very impressed with the work the organisation does. I believe local advocates for the model contacted Oireachtas Members, or at least I was contacted by people who are active in advocating it. There are a number of schools in my constituency of Donegal and throughout the country that are part of the programme and I may have been contacted to reflect the level of activity in my county. I am a fan of the initiative and all that the organisation does.

The Global Irish Economic Forum took place in Dublin Castle recently and one of the main areas of focus that repeatedly came up was small businesses. It was said that every company, ranging from Apple to the fairly large companies that have operations here, all started in an attic or in someone's room or shed. The business starts at that level. I wonder about the scope of extending this positive and important initiative to local small businesses. We all know that the people who sustain communities and play a major role are all the small and medium businesses. If one runs a shop on a main street, one will be hit for tickets, collections and contributions all the time. The business community, particularly the small and medium business community, play a fundamental role and have fundamental interaction with their community. Is there scope to extend this project to the small and medium business community?

How would the witnesses develop a culture of entrepreneurship? The transition year opportunity has been taken in recent times to examine that but it is critical to engender a sense of entrepreneurship among secondary school students to the extent that they would have a sense that they could start a business and run their own affairs.

Chairman

I wish to add to the previous comments. The witnesses are seeking our support. We are a European Union affairs committee and our work is on matters related to the European Union. What the witnesses spoke about in terms of education, innovation, entrepreneurial matters and links with schools is all relevant but are there areas in terms of contact with the institutions of the European Union, whether it be the Commission or the Parliament, that would be valuable, or in respect of any of the programmes developed by the European Union that the witnesses could fit into the work they are doing?. Rather than simply seeking our support, which could be with the Government, I am talking about our support in regard to the European Union. Are there matters the witnesses have thought of in that respect or they might like to come to us on that at a later date? The witnesses can now reply to the questions raised.

Ms Germaine Noonan

It is nice to meet Senator Mac Lochlainn again this morning. Donegal is very active in this programme. We are examining the involvement of the SME sector because we recognise, especially on the western seaboard of our island, that the companies in that sector are the norm in terms of business size. We are seeking, for example in the case of schools in Connemara, to establish a joint partnership with small businesses that would replace what was the large company in the larger cities because that is the reality in their economic communities.

Deputy Durkan mentioned the current climate. The commitment from chief executives in these companies is huge. They completely see the value of what their employees do, what is at stake in the future, and how to influence them. Since July, 15 new companies have set up with us linking to local schools. There is a continuous pipeline of interest there. I am delighted to say that Abbott in Cavan two days ago agreed to match with Breifne College in Cavan. This is the north east that covers some of Cavan and Monaghan. We have also had the fabulous story of Silverhill Foods, which joined our programme this summer.

Deputy Joe O’Reilly

It is a fabulous company.

Ms Germaine Noonan

Absolutely. This is tremendous and we are delighted. Abbott is also an amazing company.

In terms of what the Chairman and the committee can do for us, if they agree that what we have presented is good for Ireland, we would be delighted if they would contact the Ministers, Deputies Bruton, Fitzgerald and Quinn and outline their support for this initiative, which would include the provision of funding resources. Through the vehicle of the forum of COSAC at European level, the committee members could speak about this great Irish story. At Commissioner level, if they could speak to, or if we could assist in terms of showcasing this initiative to, Commissioner Androulla Vassiliou on education and training and Commissioner Antonio Tajani on the industry and business side, that would a very positive outcome.

Chairman

Do not forget the Parliament.

Ms Germaine Noonan

I will definitely follow up on the Parliament idea. It is important to use all the machinery in place. It is multifaceted at all levels. We are interested and committed. There are not many great stories coming from this island, but the schools business partnership and the Business Working Responsibly Mark are two of them.

Deputy Pádraig Mac Lochlainn

I accept that entrepreneurship is not within the group's specific remit, but following the global economic forum, the Government will focus heavily on developing a culture of innovation and entrepreneurship in schools and throughout society because having such a culture is critically important. Is there scope to extend the remit or develop a new arm of the programme to focus on entrepreneurship at local level?

Ms Germaine Noonan

The Deputy's question is timely. We are conscious that the country is building a knowledge economy, of which we want to be a part if we have a role to play with the business connection. It is about creating space in timetables in schools and providing opportunities for young people to meet entrepreneurs. Venues must be created for that purpose and we can assist in that respect. In the next year we will examine whether we should have a role to play on the science, technology, engineering and maths, STEM, agenda and, if so, what should it be. It is people outside who will determine that matter, taking account of the wisdom of Members of Parliament and stakeholders. I would welcome contributions that might help us in the innovation area.

Chairman

Does the group have any connection with the State organisation Léargas which has a partnership with schools? Irish schools are partnered in groups of three, with two schools in other European Union countries? Links have been established. Perhaps it might be desirable to try to expand on this. It is like the COMENIUS programme.

Ms Germaine Noonan

I participated in that programme. I was involved in a project 12 years ago when I was teaching on the euro when it was introduced. With two other colleagues, I have applied to go to Finland next spring in which there are two programmes. There is also one in Portugal on the drop-out rate. It is a great vehicle for sharing information on what we do and hearing the best of what others do, particularly the Finns. I am excited about hearing their story.

Chairman

I thank the delegates for their interesting and valuable presentation. It is great for us to hear what is being done. It is important work, on which I congratulate delegates. I also thank them for their fine presentation and compliment them on their easy ability to answer all of the questions thrown at them. If they wish, they are welcome to remain for the next session.

Sitting suspended at 12.23 p.m. and resumed at 12.25 p.m.