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JOINT COMMITTEE ON FINANCE AND THE PUBLIC SERVICE debate -
Wednesday, 27 Jul 2005

Business of Joint Committee.

The first item on the agenda is the minutes of the meeting of 13 July 2005. Are the minutes agreed? Agreed. Are there any matters arising from the minutes? No.

The second item on the agenda is correspondence. A number of items of correspondence are very routine and deal with statutory instruments. The first item of correspondence is reference No. 0142, a letter from the clerk of the Joint Committee on European Affairs, regarding Statutory Instrument 317 of 2005, European Communities (Taxation of Savings Income in the form of Interest Payments) Regulations 2005. I propose that this be noted. Is that agreed? Agreed.

The next item is a letter from the Industry and Parliament Trust Fellows Dinner Club which is to be noted.

What is the subject of the letter and who are they?

I do not know who they are. A copy of the letter has been circulated to members.

Are they inviting us to dinner?

They seem to be informing us that a planned dinner is not now being proceeded with and those who had paid to attend are being refunded their money. This has no relevance to any member of this committee.

The next item is a letter from the Minister for Finance, Deputy Cowen, regarding correspondence with this committee about an unsatisfactory resolution of a gentleman's case with the Revenue Commissioners and the Office of the Ombudsman. Members will recall that the committee received a letter from a particular taxpayer who was not satisfied with the manner in which his case was dealt with by the Ombudsman and the Revenue Commissioners. A delegation from the committee met the chairman of the Revenue Commissioners and the Ombudsman. It was accepted that this committee had no remit in the matter as a report had not been submitted to the Oireachtas. The committee cannot act on a report it has not received.

As the committee could take no further action and as both the Revenue Commissioners and the Ombudsman are within the remit of the Department of Finance, the matter has been referred to the Minister for Finance, Deputy Cowen, to resolve the matter to the satisfaction of the taxpayer. The response from the Minister of Finance states he notes the sequence of events laid out in our letter and that the Chairman of the Revenue Commissioners and the Ombudsman consider the case to be closed. In light of this, and the long-standing formal independence of both offices in discharge of their functions the Minister deems it inappropriate for him to intervene in the matter. I propose we note the letter and send a copy of it to the taxpayer with whom we are dealing. Is that agreed? Agreed.

The next item is a letter from the clerk of the Joint Committee on European Affairs enclosing information on the priorities of the UK Presidency of the European Union for 2005. We will note that.

The committee has received an invitation from the OECD to attend a seminar on China, entitled Current Economic and Policy Changes. This will take place in Paris on 6 October. The committee had not planned to attend such a seminar and the clerk is working with the convenors of the Government and Opposition members of the committee to find a suitable visit abroad to deal with——

Is the meeting in Paris?

Yes, it is in Paris on 6 October.

If a member is interested in attending——

I am interested. I might even be there at the time.

Is it agreed that two members should attend this seminar, one each from the Government and the Opposition? Agreed. I will leave it to the Whips to decide who should attend. We can hear about the travel arrangements at our meeting in September.

The next item is a letter from the clerk of the Joint Committee on Health and Children regarding women's support services. Have members had an opportunity to consider that proposal to set up a sub-committee of various groups in the Oireachtas? I suggest we note the letter and leave the matter with the Joint Committee on Health and Children. Is that agreed? Agreed.

The next item is a booklet from the Combat Poverty Agency regarding ending child poverty. We note the booklet which all Members of the Oireachtas have received.

The Department of Finance strategy statement 2005-07 and the Department of the Taoiseach's statement of strategy 2005-07 are relevant to today's meeting and we will deal separately with them.

The next item of correspondence is the Central Bank Financial Services Authority annual report 2004. We will note that, as all Members of the Oireachtas have received it.

The committee has received a letter from the Competition Authority regarding the interim report of the Joint Committee on Finance and the Public Services on bank charges and interest rates. The outgoing chairman of the authority, Mr. John Fingleton, took the trouble to respond to our recent report. I suggest we write back to him immediately thanking him for all his work as chairman of the authority and wishing him well as chief executive of the Office of Fair Trading in the United Kingdom. Members may have read about this appointment in the newspapers last week. Mr. Fingleton is moving to a similar role in a bigger organisation across the water.

I wish to group together the statutory instruments. Document No. 0153 is Statutory Instrument No. 278 of 2005, regarding Members of the Oireachtas, ministerial and parliamentary party allowances and salaries. I suggest we note these. There are statutory instruments on the following items: mineral tax, the Tax Consolidation Act commencement date, the Finance Act commencement date and the Central Bank financial services, levies and fees regulations. There is a large number of statutory instruments on qualifying urban renewal schemes, including one that covers all the towns in the country. There is a separate statutory instrument for every town affected all of which are listed. There is also a list in the Oireachtas Library.

This committee has always asked to be informed of all statutory instruments but these instruments seem routine and it is not necessary to discuss any of them individually. There is also a statutory instrument regarding living over the shop allowances, under that taxation scheme. We will note those. It is not necessary to make any comment in responding to them.

The next item is a letter from the Department of Finance regarding information sought by members at the committee meeting on 18 May. I suggest we note it. There is much information there for members and if individual members want to use it, they are free to do so in their own capacities. We will simply note it.

The next item is a letter from the Department of Finance regarding a presentation to be made to the committee at its meeting on 27 July, relevant to today's meeting. That will form part of today's meeting. There is an e-mail from Dr. Rory O'Kelly of the Department of Finance regarding Statutory Instruments Nos. 329 and 330 of 2005. These are additional instruments we received after the first batch was circulated. Finally, there is an e-mail with attached letter from Mr. David O'Sullivan of the Department of Finance regarding Statutory Instrument No. 284 of 2005 re poll tax. Deputy McGrath requested information on that at the last meeting. The information is there for any member who wishes to utilise it.

At the previous meeting we spoke about considering work in September on tax incentive schemes and the various examinations being undertaken by consultants for the Department of Finance. All the submissions made to the Department are on its website and available to the committee. As Chairman, I was asked to contact the Minister to see if we could get sight of information or documentation being produced by the consultants in order to assist us in our work during September if we were of a mind to make a submission. The Minister of Finance replied saying the documents from the consultants are not being made available to us because the documentation is part of the deliberative process which the Government will be utilising and in which it will be involved in the run-up to the forthcoming budget. Accordingly the consultants' reports and information are not available to the committee in terms of us putting together a submission from the Oireachtas to the Department in advance of the budget.

Regarding items on our agenda for September, I suggest we see about dealing with some of the tax incentives or follow up on our intention to invite Mr. Finbarr Flood, the new chairman of the decentralisation implementation group, to appear before the committee on a suitable date in September. We indicated we would do that as soon as possible. Can we have agreement on that? Our slots would normally be 14 and 28 September. I propose that the committee does not sit on 28 September because that is the date on which the Dáil returns. No doubt whatever we might be doing at a committee meeting would be lost in the bigger picture on that day. There is no point in holding a committee meeting on that day. We could meet on 7, 14 or 21 September. Let us see on which of those days Mr. Flood is available.

Because there is a number of Fine Gael members on the committee, they might let us know the date of their parliamentary party meeting. No disrespect to the smaller parties, but because of the Dáil being in recess, and the possibility of not getting a quorum, it would not be wise to call a meeting when the two main parties would not be represented. We informally decided not to hold a meeting during those two weeks last year. We can hold a meeting on 7 September and on 21 September. I am aware it is not a normal sequence but I am sure the committee rooms will not be too busy.

Are we tied to a specific date?

We are not, but it makes life easier for other people booking meetings. We are not tied to any date. There is nothing wrong with Wednesday, which is the day that the committee selected for itself. If Mr. Finbarr Flood is available on 7 September, well and good. If not, we will ask him for 21 September. We will have a preliminary discussion on the examination of tax reliefs and incentives and the committee will then decide how far it will take this process during the months of September and October.

That concludes all the correspondence. I am sorry for the long list, but it is important to clear the decks before we break up for the summer. We will suspend while the representatives from the Department of the Taoiseach take their seats.

Sitting suspended at 3.26 p.m. and resumed at 3.27 p.m.
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