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JOINT COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS debate -
Tuesday, 3 Feb 2004

Cypriot Foreign Minister: Presentation.

Ladies and gentlemen, distinguished guests, I welcome Mr. George Iacovou, the Foreign Minister of the Republic of Cyprus. I had the pleasure of meeting Mr. Iacovou during the committee's visit to Cyprus last November and I am delighted to be able to return the hospitality shown then to our delegation, comprising Senator Kitt, Deputy Gregory and myself. Mr. O'Mahoney was with us as our adviser. We were well received and not only did we meet the Foreign Minister but alsothe President and other people of great importance in Cyprus. We appreciated the very detailed discussions we had at that time.

The Foreign Minister is accompanied by Mr. Pavlos Anastasiades, Director of the Office of Foreign Affairs, by the Cypriot ambassador, His Excellency Mr. Andreas Kakouris and Ms Maria Hadjitheodosiou from the Cypriot Embassy.

Today's meeting will give us the opportunity to discuss the forthcoming accession of Cyprus to the EU and the prospects for a final and comprehensive settlement of the Cyprus question. Ireland's well-known position is that we support a solution based on the pertinent UN resolutions. I am aware that this is a sensitive time for Cyprus and that there are developments almost every day at present which affect the prospects for a lasting settlement. The UN Secretary General, Mr. Kofi Annan, has said that in order to meet the 1 May deadline, talks must be concluded in March and referenda on any settlement held in April. One can tell from that how tight the timescale is.

A window is now open which will soon close. Minds are concentrated on both sides towards the May deadline. When we visited Cyprus in November, all eyes were on the elections in the northern part of the island. Those elections produced a new leadership which might be more amenable to a negotiated solution based on the Annan plan.

I invite the Foreign Minister to address the committee, following which I will in the usual way open discussion to members.

Minister George Iacovou

I thank you warmly for this invitation to address this committee. We came to Dublin because Ireland holds the chair of the EU for the six-month period in which Cyprus will accede finally to the Union. We have had useful and interesting meetings with Government and parliamentary leaders. We know that Ireland has been very supportive of Cyprus and of a resolution to the Cyprus problem for many years. It has been very supportive of the aspiration of Cyprus to join the European Union and this is now becoming a reality.

This is my third term of office as Foreign Minister. Although Cyprus has a very active foreign policy on many issues, there are two pylons on which that policy has rested: to resolve the Cyprus problem and to join the European Union, in that order. It is a matter of regret for us that we are joining the Union on 1 May but have still not resolved the Cyprus problem. This is not because we have not tried. I reassert that acceding to the Union as a re-unified country is the major objective for us and has always been so. If we do not manage that, it will be a matter of great regret for us.

Many people refer to important dates in the calendar. One such date is 10 March of last year when the last inter-communal meeting under the chairmanship of the UN Secretary General, Mr. Kofi Annan, was held. The President of the Cyprus Government took office on 1 March 2003 following elections on 14 February. No one on the Greek Cypriot side claimed that because there were elections we could not negotiate. Also, we did not ask for additional time to study the 700 pages of the Annan plan. We negotiated right through the electoral campaign and were willing just 10 days after being installed as a Government to go to the Hague to negotiate.

While many people say that the Hague negotiations collapsed, and I sometimes say it myself, that is totally wrong. They did not collapse because they did not take place. In fact, when the UN Secretary General summoned the Turkish Cypriot leader, Mr. Denktash, he told Mr. Annan he did not know why he had been brought there. He said he had told Mr. Annan on 26 and 28 February that he did not accept his plan, its philosophy or its parameters. He said he could not see why a sick old man like him had to be kept up until 3 a.m.

There was no attempt to negotiate. The plan was rejected by the Turkish Cypriot side, by Mr. Denktash and by the Deputy Minister of Turkey, Mr. Zigal, who was present. He said he was not authorised to commit Turkey to the draft international treaties which were being presented by the Secretary General, Mr. Annan.

Since then, we have publicly urged the Turkish Government and the Turkish Cypriot side to come to the negotiations. We said that the collapse of the Hague talks was lamented because on 16 April 2003 we were to sign the Treaty of Accession, which I had the privilege of signing with President Papadopoulous. However, in his speech during the signing of the Treaty of Accession, the President said we would not turn our backs on the negotiations but would continue to seek negotiations after 16 April. We did so in an open manner, inviting the UN Secretary General, the Turkish Government and the Turkish Cypriot leadership to participate.

What did the Turkish side say over this period? I will only cite Mr. Denktash who repeatedly said the Annan plan was dead and buried. All of the Governments with which I was in touch told me to convene talks as soon as possible because there must be a comfortable margin for negotiations. However they said - this includes the United States Ambassador and the British High Commissioner - there was no point beginning talks as long as Mr. Denktash was the Turkish Cypriot interlocutor.

There is no chance of finding a solution while Mr. Denktash is in the saddle and leads the Turkish Cypriot community. We had to wait until the electoral process took place among the Turkish Cypriot community on 14 December last. That community gave much support to the opposition parties, which seemed more progressive and more amenable to a negotiated settlement.

Fearing a disaster in the elections, Mr. Denktash began importing voters in the pre-election period. The increase in the electorate was 4% within one year whereas it would normally be about 1%. Mr. Akinci, a Turkish Cypriot leader, confronted Mr. Erdogan, the Turkish Prime Minister, in a public meeting in Palma, Majorca, and told him to stop bringing settlers to Cyprus, adulterating the political will of the Turkish Cypriots. He paid for this dearly in the subsequent formation of the administration for he has been excluded completely for daring to voice a Turkish Cypriot view.

There was a time when 25 members were progressives and 25 were of the reactionary elements. Now, we have the old father, Mr. Rauf Denktash, who still represents the Turkish Cypriot community as an interlocutor and his son, Mr. Serder Denktash. Then there is Mr. Talat, the progressive without much spirit, caught in between the father and son. In my view, that is the current and completely indeterminate position in the Turkish Cypriot community. The Turkish Prime Minister said that in any future talks, Mr. Denktash will be accompanied by Mr. Talat, but that Mr. Denktash will represent them. I do not know yet how much influence Mr. Talat will have and I will keep an open mind on the matter.

On 23 January, a body known as the National Security Council of Turkey met in Ankara and issued a public pronouncement that Turkey wants a solution of the Cyprus problem based on realities in Cyprus, having the plan of Mr. Kofi Annan as a reference, and giving full support to Mr. Denktash. This is the same Mr. Denktash that western countries have said is the main obstacle to a solution.

What do "realities" in Cyprus mean? Presumably, it means the effects of the invasion such as ethnic cleansing and the creation of approximately 160,000 refugees. Why was it difficult for the National Security Council to say that it wanted a negotiated settlement based on the Annan plan? Why was it so difficult to specify the Annan plan as a basis of the future inter-communal negotiations? How is using the Annan plan as a reference to be interpreted? Immediately afterwards, there was a concerted public relations exercise, a spin, which took the form of announcement after announcement stressing the goodwill exhibited by the Government of Turkey in the efforts to find a solution to the problem of Cyprus.

I remind the committee that the European Commission published four reports on the candidacy of Bulgaria, Romania and Turkey. One of them is a strategy paper in which it warned Turkey that unless the Cyprus problem was resolved, the EU would find it difficult to give Turkey a date for negotiations. It was formulated in various ways but the net result is that Turkey will have an easier path in its European aspirations if it resolves the problem of Cyprus.

Many of Turkey's friends impressed upon the Government of Turkey the need to resolve the Cyprus problem. At the Thessaloniki summit, and at the Brussels summit last December, the European Union pointed the finger at the Turkish Cypriots and at Turkey as being major obstacles to the solution of the Cyprus problem.

We waited to see what Turkey would do. The action started in Davos where discussions took place with the Secretary General, Mr. Kofi Annan, and then it moved to the United States, where the Prime Minister, Mr. Erdogan, and Mr. Abdullah Gul, the Foreign Minister, made several public statements, which all gave the impression of a positive attitude to negotiating to find a solution before 1 May.

What is the truth? Spin lasts for so long and no longer but in the end the chips are down and the people that have to take the decisions know precisely what has happened. I am sure the public relations exercise will not last forever.

A Security Council resolution gives us the means to resolve the Cyprus problem. The Secretary General of the United Nations is offering his good offices to the two communities in Cyprus to resolve the problem. As a consequence of this process, a document, generally known as the Annan plan, exists. We say that the Annan plan is on the table and we have been waiting for 11 months to have it negotiated towards a solution of the Cyprus problem.

I do not break any confidences when I say what Mr. Erdogan told the Secretary General as it is a matter of public record and not based on information which I have from the Secretary General. They said that the document is too long at 700 pages and that it is impossible to negotiate on the basis of this document in the time available until 30 March when everything has to be agreed, as it has to be implemented by 1 May, allowing time for referenda. It is too long. Why they did not decide a little earlier to allow ample negotiating time is a secret closely kept by the Turkish Government?

They said that they cannot negotiate on the Annan plan, that we now have to negotiate three different things, a basic agreement, a map which marks the territorial aspect of the problem and a constitution. All other issues will be negotiated after 1 May. This is a violation of a number of concepts inherent in the good offices of the Secretary General. In his report, he says his document is comprehensive and self-executing and it is inherent in the document that nothing is binding until everything is agreed. This is fully in conformity with the concept of offering a mission of good offices.

A document exists as a basis for negotiation and we said to the Secretary General in the Hague that we accept it as such, which means that we accept its philosophy and its basic parameters. We will not raise fundamental issues in any future negotiation unless the other side raises fundamental issues. We will raise issues of functionality in the wake of our accession to the EU because we want to be a fully functioning and not a stalled member.

The Turkish proposal is three different documents - not the Annan plan, which is too long - and everything else will be negotiated after 1 May 2004. In effect it is an interim proposal for an interim period which leaves a great deal to be negotiated in the future. Of course, in the meantime, what is implied is that the Republic of Cyprus should divest itself of its international legality and recognition and cease to exist from 1 May and will be taken over by an interim administration. Who the negotiators will be, God only knows. No one has said anything about the future negotiations and as it will be a joint government linked together with only a partial agreement, presumably the negotiations will be carried out within this new government, thus introducing all kinds of centrifugal forces in an already very tentative kind of agreement.

The Turkish Government told the Secretary General also that Mr. de Soto, his special representative, was not to its liking and would prefer a facilitator from a major nation trusted by both sides to facilitate the solution - in effect changing the basic process. I do not think the Secretary General will accept the discarding of his plan or agree to start negotiations on a foundation agreement and three other parts of a new agreement. I believe he will insist on negotiations on the basis of the Annan plan.

In all honesty I hope I am wrong, that the Turkish position will be clarified and that it will negotiate in order to find a solution before 1 May. As I said, we want it. People have said that the Republic of Cyprus will join the EU and then start threatening to block Turkey's accession and try to extract maximum advantage by doing so. We made a declaration in the Council that we would not block Turkey's accession. In fact, we want Turkey to join the EU and we are probably one of the few countries to have been forthcoming in saying so.

A Turkey that is part of the EU is a Turkey that respects human rights, sends the military back to barracks and does not allow the military to participate in decisions relating to foreign policy, a country that respects international law. This is why we unequivocally want Turkey in the European Union. If conditions are ripe and if we are invited, we will burn the midnight oil in the process of negotiating to find a solution before 1 May 2004.

I note that the Prime Minister, Mr. Erdogan, in a press conference after his meeting with the Secretary General, Mr. Kofi Annan, said that if the Greek Cypriot side agreed to do likewise, Turkey could agree to allowing the Secretary General to fill in the blanks of any outstanding points at the end of the negotiations. That seemed to be a conciliatory approach.

Mr. Iacovou

Turkey specified that it does not accept the Annan plan as a basis for the negotiations. He specified that he will negotiate part of the problem and send the rest of the problem for a subsequent negotiation at some time in the future. He even put an additional condition, which is not a facilitating condition. After he deviated from the basic concept of the mission of the good offices in negotiations on the Annan plan, he substituted it with three elements. He said that it is conditional on the Greek Cypriot side accepting his whole proposal of three different parts, a basic agreement, new negotiation on the territorial issue and new negotiation on the constitution and that they would then agree. I do not think that is taking the subject further.

I will be brief as I am sure my colleagues wish to pose questions. I welcome Mr. Iacovou, the Foreign Minister, and I am sure I speak for all my colleagues when I compliment the outstanding work of His Excellency, Mr. Andreas Kakouris, on behalf of his country during the past months.

Members

Hear, Hear.

To put it bluntly, Mr. Iacovou, is there a question of the integrity of the Turkish side as to whether it wishes to resolve this long-standing issue? Is it as much to do with internal Turkish politics and history, going so far as to suggest that the military rather than the political elite still rule and they are the people pulling the strings?

Mr. Iacovou made a comment earlier about the statement from the National Security Council and the realities in Cyprus, the realities being that it has imported people into the country since the invasion of 1974 and has upset the demographic balance within the island and the portion of northern Cyprus. Taking all those factors into account, would you not agree that the members of the European Union, Ireland included, should be putting greater pressure on Turkey to resolve this, if it is really serious about joining the European Union? I know the Taoiseach, as President of the European Union, has made it quite clear publicly in bilateral discussions with the Prime Minister, Mr. Erdogan, that there is a real desire for this matter to be resolved before 1 May. Would Mr. Iacovou not agree at this late stage that the pressure should be more proactive and that Turkey should be told in no uncertain terms that the date for discussions relating to its accession to the EU will be put back even further?

I know that Cyprus does not loom large in the minds of the Irish people but the historical partition of the island is considered important because our island is partioned also. If the question of Turkey's entry to the EU is to be put before the Irish people and the general population of Europe, that might stiffen the resolve and concentrate the minds of the Turks on resolving the problem.

Mr. Iacovou

I thank the Senator for his statement. He definitely sounds like I used to sound some years back. I used to speak about a just, equitable solution, but I have stopped as I do not want to deceive my audience. I do not think we will get a just and equitable solution. We want at least to get a viable functional solution, for which we have made many concessions.

All the help we can get is welcome. The Union is well placed to exercise persuasion or even pressure. I hope the Irish EU Presidency does not underestimate its capacity to play a significant role at this critical juncture because time limits have become very narrow. We need to find and implement a solution before 1 May. Talks should have begun a few months ago and we asked the UN Secretary General last week at least to call a meeting at this time. I hope the Irish Presidency will be very energetic and help to persuade significant members of the Union, because some are more equal than others, in the effort to persuade Turkey to be more forthcoming.

I welcome the Foreign Minister and his ambassador to the committee. I was fascinated by your President's reply to a question of mine asked at the Council of Europe last week concerning the efforts made by the Cypriots before joining the EU without any co-related funds, which was a huge budget constraint on Cyprus. Does Mr. Iacovou believe that Cyprus becoming a member of the European Community can effectively help to improve its economic situation as well as making matters easier on the political side?

Mr. Iacovou

It is well known that we have not got any pre-accession assistance or funds from the Union. The cost of harmonisation is about one annual budget, which is quite high. The argument was that Cyprus was the richest applicant and, therefore, should not receive any funds. We did not press the issue and thought it would be tactically wrong to overload the argument by also making financial claims on the Union. We knew we were at a disadvantage because of the political problem of Cyprus and we wanted to focus on its solution rather than on other issues. We have done well in that regard and estimate that we will be net contributors to the Union.

That does not mean we will not benefit. First, we will benefit because we get a long-term perspective and additional security. We hope solutions to our problems will be further augmented and we will be in a good position not only to benefit without such solutions but also to benefit and help in particular the Turkish Cypriot community which, as a result of its own policies, has fallen a bit behind. Income per capita is about five times greater in the Republic of Cyprus, the area under the control of the Government of the Republic, than in the Turkish Cypriot community. This will introduce many challenges which we are willing to face with, of course, the help of the European Union, which I am absolutely certain will be forthcoming.

How far does Mr. Iacovou think the Turkish side is prepared to go to delay the full accession of Cyprus into the EU, or to use that issue as a political bargaining point?

Mr. Iacovou

The Union has already spoken in a clear voice regarding the desirability of solving the Cyprus problem well ahead of a decision to grant Turkey a date for the commencement of negotiations regarding its own European aspirations. It is my conviction that theposition and plan of the President of Turkey is part of a wider plan to start the negotiations now and to continue them right through the second half of the year. If Turkey finds it is to get a date, it will then ameliorate its position vis-à-vis Cyprus.

A very well informed and highly placed United Nations source told me that the intention of Turkey is to start the negotiations and continue with them while laying down one condition: that the referenda take place in January 2005. If Turkey gets a date for commencement of EU negotiations for December, it will then urge Turkish Cypriots to vote for the agreement. If it does not get a date, the referendum will be negative and therefore there will be no solution. In spite of the authoritative nature of the source, I prefer not to believe there is such a complicated scenario in the back of the minds of the leadership of Turkey.

I welcome the Foreign Minister. I wish to ask about the current feelings of the public in Cyprus concerning accession. I note that a referendum was not required to further the accession proposal but that it was a vote of Parliament, which was unanimously passed. Does that level of political unanimity reflect a widespread view of the Cypriot populace with regard to accession? Is the question of accession to the EU a matter of great public debate or support?

Mr. Iacovou

We have no provision in our constitution or our statute book for referenda. The issue was debated in the House of Representatives but that debate was inconclusive. In the context of the solution to the Cyprus problem, because this is included in the Annan plan, provision will be made by enacting specific legislation to hold such referenda. There is enormous support for accession to the Union in spite of its costs and the numerous problems which are being caused as a result of harmonisation. We do not foresee any difficulties in our path towards accession and well beyond that.

Regarding the Annan plan, to have an agreement we need the entire political leadership to campaign for it, which is very important if we are to achieve a comfortable majority in a referendum. I hope the same applies to the Turkish Cypriot side also.

I had the pleasure of meeting Mr. Iacovou yesterday at the Institute for European Affairs where he very comprehensively answered a question asked about the Turkish people - not Turkish Cypriot - on the island. Mr. Iacovou mentioned Mr. Denktash importing 4,000 voters.

Mr. Iacouvou

14,000.

Mr. Iacouvou

Some 14,000 is what I said was the increase in the number registered on the roll of voters as compared with the previous electoral roll a year earlier. Their fecundity is well known but not to that extent within one year.

Mr. Iacouvou has answered part of my question because I was going to ask whether it had a significant distorting effect on the election, particularly in the light of the protest from the Turkish Cypriot party. In those circumstances, should there not be some degree of independent supervision of these elections? Is this legal under Turkish Cypriot legislation?

Mr. Iacovou

As I said yesterday, there are some questions which I do not raise as issues, nor do I respond as clearly as I might wish. People would then say that these are impossible issues, the Cyprus problem cannot be resolved and if Mr. Iacovou poses these questions he must be negative. Thus, I did not even mention the word "settler" here, except in the context of voting. Those who are members of the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe know very well that rapporteurs have twice been appointed to look at the issue of the legal settlement of the occupied part of Cyprus.

There were 120,000 Turkish Cypriots in 1974. Today, the population in occupied Cyprus is about 200,000 but this disguises the fact that around 75,000 Turkish Cypriots - half of the original total - have emigrated. Only about 75,000 genuinely Turkish Cypriot people reside in the occupied part of Cyprus. The remainder, about 125,000, are settlers, mainly from the Anatolian provinces of Turkey, that came at various times up to recently.

The Lakso report analyses the situation and has called for the Parliamentary Assembly to act. I wrote to Mr. Schwimmer before the elections of 14 December to ask that the Council of Europe - as it is included in the two recommendations of the Parliamentary Assembly - demand that Turkey hold a census to establish these facts that have been provided by the rapporteurs of the Parliamentary Assembly. These are the figures I have quoted. We have our own estimates also but these were independently prepared. The validity of the results of the elections of 14 December must be called into question when one can import voters, or when one can give out so-called citizenship in large numbers to enable people to vote.

This is the original purpose for the settlers. There were many other reasons. First, they were military reservists, then they were imported to sustain the power of Mr. Denktash. Latterly, they are mostly economic migrants. However, I have seen the effect of this. Three years ago, Mr. Talat, whom I have described as a progressive, was saying that not one single settler should stay in Cyprus. During his recent campaign he said that all settlers must stay. Of course, he was trying to win votes from the settlers.

A very basic question comes to mind. The Annan plan says that there should be referenda. What are the referenda for? They are to determine the future of Cyprus. Who will vote in these referenda? The settlers that came from Turkey? In the Annan plan, there are provisions about whether a settler could stay or not. All these are issues that need to be discussed during the negotiations that will take place in the next few weeks before finding a solution. They are difficult questions. I said this yesterday, and so do not say it today simply for your benefit, but it has to be addressed in a most humanitarian way. There are different classes of settlers, but there are imaginative proposals on how to handle the issue, encouraging the Turkish Cypriots who emigrated to return to their homeland and together, in common with Turkey, to become a prosperous member of the European Union.

Thank you, Minister. We noted here at the committee that the European Council, last December stated in its conclusions that a settlement on the Cyprus issue of the basis on the Annan plan would greatly facilitate Turkey's membership aspirations. I hope that will be helpful and encourage urgent discussions between now and the end of March so that the whole process can proceed.

We are optimists. We, too, had many difficulties in the past but we had to put the past behind us and move on to a future. I know this is difficult. It was difficult here on this island. This is a very interesting and sensitive time for the negotiations but the signs are promising in many ways. There is full support from the major players for the negotiations and a solution based on the Annan plan.

I appreciate very much what Mr. Iacovou has said about a comprehensive package for the referendum. One cannot have a referendum unless one has a package which people can understand and which is not going to fall apart in the course of the discussions or negotiations in advance of a referendum. We are very familiar with that type of situation here.

I thank you and your colleagues for coming to meet us and we thank you for a very interesting and a very informative exchange of views. You have many friends here who are very anxious to see a solution in Cyprus. Many members of the committee have been to Cyprus and it is a popular place for Irish people to travel to. We look forward to the developments and can see things are happening fairly urgently. We hope that the difficulties can be overcome. You will have the full support of this committee in any of those negotiations based on the Annan plan. I thank everybody for coming today, the ambassador, His Excellency Mr. Andreas Kakouris, and Ms Maria Hadjitheodosiou.

Mr. Iacovou

I thank the Chairman and members of the committee.

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