JOINT COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS debate -
Thursday, 20 May 2004

Visit of Croatian Parliamentary Delegation.

Chairman

I welcome Mr. Vladimir Seks, the President and Speaker of the Croatian Parliament, Mrs. Durda Adelsiç, Deputy Speaker of the Croatian Parliament, Mr. Neven Mimica, Chairman of the European Integration Committee, Mr. Josip Sesar, Secretary General of the Croatian Parliament, Mr. Boris Abramoviç, Head of the Office of the President and Ms Marina Ploskinjiç adviser and interpreter.

The members of the committee present are Deputy Dan Wallace, Mr. Jim Fitzsimmons, MEP, Deputy Pat Carey, Senator Paschal Mooney, Deputy Michael D. Higgins and Senator Paul Bradford.

Croatia is well represented by H.E. Ambassador Nenad Prelog and his staff who have been particularly active since coming here. We are very impressed by the progress made by Croatia in recent times. We applaud the developments so far and we encourage you to continue. We look forward to Croatia becoming a member of the European Union and I understand that public opinion in Croatia is fully behind membership. The delegation will be aware, of course, that Ireland was one of the first members states of the Union to ratify the stabilisation and association agreement that Croatia has signed with the European Union. Ireland has a very positive view of Croatian membership of the EU and we were pleased to hear that the Commission's opinion on the application from Croatia to join the EU was more positive than had been expected. This confirms that Croatia meets the Copenhagen requirements and the conditions in the stabilisation and association process, and is co-operating fully with the International Criminal Tribunal. As holder of the EU Presidency, Ireland intends to work for a clear decision at the June European Council on the Commission's recommendation to open accession negotiations with Croatia. The President of the Croatian Parliament will now make an address and the discussion will be opened to members after that.

Mr. Vladimir Seks

Ladies and gentlemen, distinguished colleagues, it is a great honour to speak to you today in the Irish Parliament. The Irish Presidency of the EU has been marked by the accession of ten new member states to the Union. This historical enlargement represents a decisive turning point in the development of the EU and it will be remembered as one of the most important achievements in building a new Europe of the 21st century. We hope that the Union, under the Irish Presidency, will be able to make one more important step, which is the acceptance of the EU Constitution. It will be a great conclusion to a very successful Presidency and a firm foundation for the further development and integration of the EU.

With ten new countries formally joining the EU, we have finally overcome the Cold War division of Europe's past. European identity and integrity are equally important for all the European nations. The EU-SAP Thessaloniki Summit last June reaffirmed the fundamental attitude of the EU member states in favour of further enlargement. However, the historical EU enlargement process will not be completed until the south-east region of Europe joins the Union. The Euro-Atlantic ambitions of these countries have been a powerful motivation for positive but sometimes radical political, economic, social and legislative reforms. They have led to the accelerated processes of regional normalisation and reconciliation among yesterday's enemies, as well as through comprehensive regional co-operation.

I would like to present Croatia's key foreign policy goals. These include our accession to the EU and NATO. We wish to maintain and strengthen relations with neighbouring countries as well as with the wider region. We also wish to increase our presence in the global market. Croatia will remain actively engaged in the joint efforts of the international community to combat international terrorism and organised crime.

A few weeks ago, a new perspective was opened for my country in its approach to the EU as we received a positive opinion from the European Commission on our application for EU membership. In its opinion, the European Commission recognises that Croatia is a functioning democracy, with stable institutions guaranteeing the rule of law, and a functioning market economy. The European Commission therefore recommends that negotiations for accession to the EU should be opened with Croatia. Croatia is now ready for the decision to start full membership negotiations and we hope that negotiations will start at the beginning of 2005.

The most important challenges on our road to the EU are the harmonisation of our political, economic and social standards with those which exist in the Union. This will occur through harmonisation of our legislation. We must become fully compatible with the EU and the Croatian Government and Parliament are determined to meet those challenges. We have also achieved much in regard to the implementation of the Copenhagen and other political criteria and respective reforms, and believe this is evidence of our capability to fulfil our obligations. The European model of democracy and the rule of law have become irreversible in Croatia, which was clearly demonstrated by the manner and content of the three subsequent changes of government.

I assure the committee that in Croatia there is full consensus among the parties and broad public support for undertaking all necessary steps to join the EU. In our Parliament there are no major differences among parties when decisions are made concerning the EU. In addition, the Croatian market has been almost entirely harmonised with the EU common market and the European Commission considers Croatia a functioning market economy. The Commission also notes Croatia should be able to cope with competitive pressures and market forces within the Union in the medium term, provided it continues implementing its reform programme to remove the remaining weaknesses.

Ireland, with its rapid and astonishing development, is a great inspiration and example to us of how a small country with an appropriate plan and determined leadership can benefit from its accession to the European Union and become an inspiration for others. Regardless of our geography, economic development and political tradition, Croatia and Ireland share many common interests, especially concerning the EU. I hope we can improve on our already good co-operation. Parliamentary co-operation is of huge importance for the promotion of democratic values. Parliaments play a very important role in the realisation of the Euro-Atlantic ambitions of the aspirant countries by incorporating European values and standards in their respective legal frameworks. I am convinced that establishing closer co-operation with the Irish Parliament can be of great importance and benefit for the Croatian Parliament.

Chairman

Thank you. Croatia's preparations are well advanced and satisfactory. It is also co-operating fully with the International Criminal Court in the Hague, which is recognised. The Irish EU Presidency will ask the European Council in June to take a clear decision on the Commission's recommendation to open accession negotiations with Croatia.

Our bilateral relations have developed well. There is, of course, potential for further development on the economic, tourism, cultural and other fronts, and we look forward to this. A delegation from the committee has visited Croatia, as have a number of our Ministers, and we have worked closely with Croatia in regard to its development. In response to Mr. Seks's point, we would wish to maintain close relations between our respective Parliaments and committees on foreign affairs.

Deputy Carey

I welcome Mr. Seks and his colleagues. I had the pleasure of visiting Croatia in September of last year as a member of the Oireachtas Joint Committee on European Affairs, and of meeting with members of the previous Administration. Croatia is obviously very keen to join the European Union and Ireland, as holding EU Presidency and a member state of the EU, will be anxious to facilitate this in every possible way.

I welcome the fact that Croatia is now co-operating with International Criminal Tribunal. However, co-operation with the tribunal should not be regarded as a badge of honour by any country but an international obligation grounded in respect for human rights. I hope this co-operation will continue and know that the present Administration is fully committed to it. However, it must be recognised that the moral position of Europe as a community is such that it expects full and voluntary co-operation with such tribunals.

Will Mr. Seks comment on the present state of discussions with Slovenia on access to the sea, particularly in regard to the Pula area? There was some concern among the committee delegation which visited Croatia in September with the independence of the media there. Has there been any change in the way the media is managed and is it independent? In addition, it is important that an independent judiciary exists in every EU and potential EU member state.

Croatia has much to contribute to the stability of the region. How does Mr. Seks assess the general situation in the western Balkans, an area to which the EU will have to devote considerable attention in coming years? Foreign investment is another important area for Croatia and there has been an improvement in the level of foreign investment there. Has encouragement of this process developed? Is it possible, for example, for Irish companies to engage in joint ventures there and can they invest in acquiring total control of companies and businesses?

One point which struck me while visiting Croatia was the high quality of furniture design. I have not seen furniture as beautifully designed in any country I have visited.

Chairman

I understand Croatia also won the world handball championship last year.

Deputy Carey

However, it did not vote for us in the Eurovision song contest.

Senator Mooney

If it had given us one vote, the song might have had some chance. However, it gave us none.

Deputy M. Higgins

I join with colleagues in welcoming the members of the parliamentary delegation from Croatia and wish them success. I also took the opportunity to visit Croatia in July 2003. Senator O'Rourke accompanied me on that visit and I am sure she would have liked to be present today. She is attending to the Order of Business in the Seanad and perhaps she will join us later.

It is important not to neglect the cultural dimension. Senator O'Rourke comes from the same part of the country as Lavall Nugent and we were interested in that particular connection. He was an Irishman from the midlands who joined the Austrian Army at the age 16 and who later went on to make a distinguished contribution of a diplomatic kind to Croatia. Lavall Nugent was able to engage with memory in a non-conflictual way. His scholarly interest in Rome and Greece was exemplary and it probably made the point that scholarly approaches towards archaeology and memory are more fruitful than the manipulation of memory for difference and conflict, a topic on which we in Ireland would have some experience.

It is interesting that James Joyce, who is being celebrated this year by way of exhibition, found no difficulty in moving between the different communities of the Adriatic. He did so easily because of his interest in matters that were profoundly human. That is the way to go. Having allowed myself those few remarks there are a few political points I wish to make.

We are one of the foreign affairs committees in the European Union that has yet to discuss fully the most serious implications of the confusion of an international war on terrorism. "War" is the wrong word. It should be an international opposition to terrorism and the invasion of Iraq. We have not fully considered this matter. The common day assumption that the international world movement against terrorism is, was or could ever be associated with the invasion of Iraq is one of the most powerfully dislodging suggestions among the public all over Europe. With unanimous support we can co-operate in our efforts against terrorism but the suggestion that the invasion of Iraq could be justified under that cover is the most powerful recruiting atmosphere at present for terrorists from several backgrounds. There is no point in going on with the fudge of imagining that one cannot face that confusion. Humanity will pay a price for it for generations to come. I am interested in hearing about co-operation between countries against terrorism but I am not interested in the dishonest justification of illegality. A moral and political question flows from that in relation to the future of Europe.

Like others, I support the welcoming of Croatia to the European Union. It is a European union. The EU will be will be dislodged rather than helped by people with covert agendas within it. There is a need for an alternative force in geopolitics, one that is committed to peace, humanity, diverse cultures, respect for a view of history and several different forms of economy that is not crude militaristic imposition of a neo-liberal single ignorant agenda that has nothing to do with economic theory. When the members of a delegation from the previous Croatian Government visited the Oireachtas I put a question to them, as I have put to every country applying to join the EU. I asked, given that the EU was pushing the notion of people adapting their economies and society, what price was being paid in terms of social protection. The countries we welcomed on 1 May had a litany in that regard. In some places the teachers were on strike, in other places it was the nurses. In some places nurses, teachers and the transport workers were all on strike. The price being asked was so high that the acque negotiated at the time was one that sought to impose the model irrespective of the human cost. I exchanged this view with my fellow Europeans because one does not need to join anything to be European.

One thing that has fascinated me has been the manner in which the Lisbon Agenda, which was a high moment in regard to balancing competitiveness, innovation and social cohesion, is being abandoned to facilitate a cruder relationship in the labour market, which is attacking pensions social security. The gift we have to offer each other as neighbours is that of truth. We have done enormously well in the European Union and we have increased incomes but we have remained at the bottom of the league in terms of social protection. We are the second lowest, reflected in the fact that we spend less than half of what Sweden does, which is at the top of the league in this area. The issue of social protection is crucial. When I visited Croatia, my wish for the Croatian people was for that culture and humanity, to which I have referred, to thrive. I also wished for a different relationship with between Croatia and its neighbours because I could detect a significant amount of negativity in regard to the capacity the country to deal with its neighbours.

I want to say, lest people think I am vague — I was an academic at one stage — what I mean specifically about the US influence and its dislodging of some of the relations within the European Union. I am referring specifically to the international criminal courts where several countries, not only in Europe but all around the world were asked, as a condition of a positive relationship with the US Administration, not to sign up to the International Criminal Court. I raise this point because today our Parliament is due to debate the International Criminal Court.

I wish to end as I began. I have got the greatest pleasure from Croatian film makers and writers. The film festival in Pula is very good. It was my pleasure to meet John Malkovich as he was receiving a well deserved award. That is what we need — a mind of the European Union that deals with matters cultural, social protection and has generosity and is not trying to be anything else. Our message should be not that we are failed soldiers but that we would like to be Europeans who did not imagine that we were at some disability because we are not talking or acting like that.

Mr. Jim Fitzsimons, MEP

I, too, welcome the President of the Croatian Parliament. For my sins I am a member of the European Parliament for the past 20 years, a period of fast change in Ireland. We commenced negotiations to join the European Union, formerly the European Economic Community, in the 1960s having first applied to join in 1961. We have been a member for 30 years and everyone in this room has witnessed the changes for the better that have taken place in our country in that time.

Members should not be too concerned if the accession negotiations which are currently taking place with the Commission are slow, tedious and detailed. The Commission can be a political, economic and social jungle to deal with on such occasions. Nevertheless, under our Presidency there is enormous good will towards Croatia in its accession negotiations.

I remind the representatives that when the EEC was set up under the Treaty of Rome in 1957, the original idea was to look after the coal and steel industries but the real goal of the founding fathers was peace in Europe because they had witnessed the consequences of the First World War and the Second World War.

Deputy Higgins is very concerned about social justice and so on and we are all concerned about terrorism but we have maintained peace very well in Europe, apart from in Northern Ireland and the Balkan areas. One of the inspirations for Croatia coming into the European Union is that we will have peace both in the south east of Europe and here in Ireland, where efforts in this regard are ongoing.

A number of celebrations in Stasbourg and elsewhere marked the accession of ten new countries to the European Union on 1 May. It was a big leap to go from a Union of 15 countries to one of 25. When Ireland joined, the EEC increased in size from six to nine countries, subsequently to 15 and now it is 25.

We will witness immense changes over the next few years. When Croatia becomes a member state — we hope that will be sooner rather than later — it will make a vast difference to its political, economic and social circumstances. The President mentioned his ideas on foreign policy, the European Union, NATO and so on. Some countries are in NATO while others are not, but that is his prerogative. The idea of harmonisation is part of the soul of the European Union. It is not easy, and Ireland also has difficulties with total harmonisation.

The President mentioned that Ireland has been an inspiration to his country and the rest of Europe. We are regarded across Europe as probably one of the most successful of the countries which joined the Union in the past 30 years. We are pleased that he recognises that because Croatia and Ireland have common interests and when Croatia joins the Union we will be happy to work with it. During our Presidency, which will be followed by The Netherlands' Presidency, we will assist Croatia in any way we can.

Chairman

We have very little time left. I will call Senator Mooney and then Senator Norris. The delegation has to leave at 11.30 a.m.

Senator Mooney

Along with my colleagues, I welcome the Croatian delegation. Almost all of my colleagues on this committee and the European affairs committee have had the opportunity of visiting Zagreb and found it to be a very positive experience.

Most of the points that would engage members of this committee have been raised, particularly by my distinguished friend and colleague, Deputy Carey, and by Deputy Michael D. Higgins. I welcome the fact that the HDZ represents not only the majority party in Government but that the reforms of that party, since the death of President Tudjman, have resulted in the HDZ becoming a much more broadly acceptable party in terms of its policies and focus.

When we met in previous years, particularly during the 1990s, many of us were concerned about the somewhat narrow nationalism of the HDZ and its attitude towards the return of the Serb population which had been displaced. It would be useful if the delegation were to give some indication as to the status of those Serbs because the issue, which I appreciate is sensitive in Croatia, is one that would engage the international community.

Like my colleagues, I would also welcome Croatia's involvement in the international criminal tribunal for the former Yugoslavia but, again, there appears to be some resistance on the part of member states, particularly the United Kingdom and The Netherlands, to fully embrace the Croatian concept of full co-operation, despite the positive emphasis that has been placed on it by Mrs. Carla Del Ponte.

It is important also that we acknowledge the continuing Irish aid to the western Balkans, and specifically to Croatia. I am pleased that this aid takes the form of a focus on cross-border issues, for example, people trafficking and refugee return. I am sure Croatia needs no reminding that it is now more in the spotlight in terms of the extension of the European Union borders following the 1 May accession and that its border with Slovenia is now the outer border in the south east Balkan area as the one point of access to the European Union for those who would be involved in illegal trafficking, particularly in child prostitution. It is a route through the south-eastern Balkans of which I understand the President is very much aware.

If he has an opportunity I would be grateful if the President would outline whether he is pleased with the resources and encouragement he is receiving from the European Union. Does he have sufficient resources along his country's border with the Union to ensure there is not a continuance of this human tragedy? Illegal trafficking of people, especially young girls, into the Union is a continuing human tragedy. It is, in effect, an international slave trade. I do not wish to over-emphasise Croatia's role in this regard. I am sure the President's Government is fully aware of the extra responsibilities now placed on Croatia because of the extension of the borders but I would be interested to hear about the resources available to it. Croatia is a small country, like Ireland, with limited resources, therefore, it will not be in a position to police the borders in the manner in which all of us would wish. In view of this, is the President receiving not only platitudes and positive noises but practical support regarding Croatia's accession to the Union from the member states?

Senator Norris

Most of the serious matters of political concern have been already raised by my colleagues. I apologise for not being here at the start of the meeting, but once again there was a conflict in timing with the Order of Business in the Seanad, and I had to move a motion on the appalling atrocities committed in the Middle East yesterday by both the United States and Israel, which required my serious political concern.

The President's country is very well served by his Ambassador, Dr. Prelog, whom I will meet at an exhibition later this evening. I compliment the President on having an extremely skillful translator which makes an interchange of views a real practical possibility.

I visited Croatia twice, first, in 1971 when I visited Pula because of my interest in James Joyce. I note with pleasure that in the city of Zadar there will be an exhibition on which one of my former students was the academic adviser. Joyce's book, Ulysses, commemorates 1904. When I went to Zagreb I discovered something of almost equal importance happened there in 1904, the invention of the propelling pencil, for which the world is grateful to Croatia.

I am sorry to have in front of me a note for which I apologise to the Croatian people. It states that a group of Irish developers are interested in golf course developments in Croatia, which I deplore. If there is one game that is marginally worse than cricket, it is golf. I apologise that the Irish nation should be involved in spreading this infection all over that beautiful part of Europe.

Chairman

We do not have much more time available but the President might like to give a short reply.

Mr. Seks

How much time do we have?

Chairman

The President should not feel inhibited in replying because of time constants, we can continue for another while.

Mr. Seks

I would like to briefly answer the questions raised by members. With regard to our relations with Slovenia, in accordance with the International Convention on the Law of Sea, Croatia declared the so-called ecological and fishing zone. We still have not resolved an inherited border issue with Slovenia, but in agreement with Slovenia we now have a certain status quo when it comes to primarily fishing in that region. Both countries have reached agreement that they would not undertake any steps that may worsen their mutual relations.

We recently passed a new law on the media, which is fully compatible with the highest level of EU standards on the freedom of the media. We have limited the concentration of ownership to 40%, therefore, none of the groups may control more than 40% of the daily edition of newspapers.

With regard to the judicial system, the previous and current Government, as well as the Parliament, have been finalising a comprehensive reform of the judiciary that should lead to justice being achieved quicker. According to our Constitution, the judiciary is completely free and independent and all judges are appointed by a special body which consists of various legal experts, university professors, etc. The same applies to the state attorney's office, which is also an independent and free body. We still have to remove some barriers to improve the efficiency of the judiciary. This is closely linked with the legal framework for the protection of foreign investments and creditors. The legal framework provides for good protection of foreign investments and for the transfer of investments abroad and of profits. I hope that the recently founded Croatian Irish business group will also contribute to more investments from Ireland to Croatia.

With regard to our individual relations with the other countries in south eastern Europe, the Croatian government supports the development of good, neighbourly relations with those countries aspiring to become EU members in future. Croatia's position is an encouragement for them in accepting EU standards and coming closer to the European Union. Europe cannot be complete without the region of south eastern Europe.

Croatia is committed to co-operating with neighbouring countries in the prevention of terrorism and organised crime, including human trafficking. Interior ministers co-operate actively with each other in their efforts to cut the so-called Balkan route. A few days ago there was a conference of speakers of Parliament of the Adriatic-Ionian initiative at which the modalities of fighting organised crime, including human trafficking and smuggling, in this sensitive region were discussed. We have reached an agreement that those organising human trafficking should be discouraged. We will try to prevent their activities and will introduce big fines for those convicted. In that way, their efforts to engage in organised crime, including human trafficking, would become very expensive. No country can fight against international terrorism on its own. An international force or unit is required, therefore, to act as a pillar in the fight against organised crime and terrorism.

Finally, we showed much understanding for the coalition formed after the terrible tragedy of 11 September 2001 and for the policy of the United States. However, we did not participate in the military intervention in Iraq; we agreed only to give a contribution in the humanitarian field, which means without our soldiers. Neither are we ready to sign Article 98, which refers to the non-extradition of US soldiers to the International Criminal Court.

There are still many topics to discuss but I wish to thank you, Chairman, and Ireland for its continuing support for Croatia on its way to EU and NATO membership. We now eagerly anticipate the forthcoming conclusion of the second cycle of EU negotiations under the Irish Presidency. Thank you very much for your attention.

Chairman

I thank the President and members of his delegation. You have received a warm welcome. There are many more matters for us to discuss but we will have to leave them for another occasion. We fully support Croatia's accession to EU membership. We congratulate you on the speed with which you have completed the requirements and we look forward to working closely with you in the future.

Sitting suspended at 11.45 a.m. and resumed at 11.55 a.m.