JOINT COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS debate -
Tuesday, 22 Mar 2005

Business of Joint Committee.

Chairman

We have a motion regarding the position of the five Bulgarian nurses and the Palestinian trainee doctor under sentence of death in Libya. On Wednesday last I met the Bulgarian ambassador, Her Excellency Bisserka Benisheva, who is here today. She has since written a formal letter to me asking the joint committee to support the campaign for the early release of the five Bulgarian nurses who have been in custody in Libya for the past five years, convicted of deliberately infecting up to 400 Libyan children with the HIV virus. It is appropriate that we should express our unreserved sympathy with the unfortunate victims who have been infected with HIV. The European Parliament has already debated a motion calling for the release of the prisoners and a transcript of the debate has been circulated.

I understand a further court hearing is scheduled to take place on 29 March. While the purpose of this hearing remains unclear, it would be a positive step if the joint committee could agree a motion supporting the release of the Bulgarian nurses on the basis of concerns that the trial was fundamentally flawed and that the allegations that confessions were procured by torture have not been investigated.

The text of the motion has been circulated. It reads as follows:

This Committee is deeply concerned at the cases of the five Bulgarian nurses and the Palestinian trainee doctor now under sentence of death in Libya on charges of deliberately infecting 400 children in a hospital in Benghazi with HIV.

We wish to record our deepest sympathies for these innocent children and for their families and friends.

We also believe that the trial of the condemned persons fell short of internationally accepted standards of fairness to the accused.

We understand that there is compelling evidence, presented during their trial, that the infections arose as a result of generally faulty and unhygienic practices at the hospital and not as a result of any deliberate action by the defendants.

We therefore urge the Libyan authorities to release these prisoners, without further delay.

Deputy Mulcahy

On a procedural point, I received the motion only this afternoon. I am not sure whether it was on the agenda. I have every sympathy with the substance of what the Chair is trying to achieve and would like to help if I can. However, I was under the impression that a motion had to be on the agenda before it could be passed by the joint committee.

Second, before passing a motion such as this, we should receive some kind of briefing on the issue. I do not wish to be misinterpreted. I applaud the Chair's humanitarian work. However, I would like to receive some kind of background briefing before I would feel comfortable about supporting it.

Chairman

We can do that.

Deputy Allen

I apologise for being late. This is not so much about procedure. I cannot put my name to this motion without having the facts. I do not know whether the trial of the condemned persons fell short of internationally accepted standards, or about the conditions in the hospital. It would devalue our status as a committee to rubber-stamp a motion without knowing the facts.

Chairman

We will provide that briefing document. I thought it had been circulated.

Deputy Allen

I have one. Have the circumstances been investigated by an independent group? I would hate if the joint committee were to condemn any country and its policies and structures without credible evidence.

Chairman

The Minister has already raised the issue on several occasions in Europe.

Deputy Allen

Is he satisfied?

Chairman

Yes. The Department of Foreign Affairs is also satisfied.

Deputy Allen

That is a different matter.

Chairman

That is the effect of the briefing document I thought members had received. I am sorry if the Deputy did not receive it.

To outline the background, the European Union has monitored the case from the outset and assisted with consular representations. EU representatives attended hearings throughout. In contacts with Libya at all levels, including the highest, the European Commission and individual member states have conveyed the European Union's concern that the case should be resolved expeditiously and fairly. EU statements have explicitly queried the justice of the convictions and called for the release of the prisoners. The Minister for Foreign Affairs, Deputy Cowen, strongly pressed the matter with the Libyan Foreign Minister at the Euromed ministerial meeting in Dublin on 6 May 2004 during the Irish Presidency of the European Union.

In October EU Foreign Ministers agreed to lift the arms embargo on Libya which has been in place since 1986. In doing so the European Union decided to recognise significant improvements in Libya's behaviour and engage positively with it in the hope of encouraging further improvements.

The October Council also agreed that the European Union would make an act of solidarity with the infected Libyan children. This will be an action plan of measures to assist Libya in the field of HIV infection to be fulfilled by action by the member states. This consists of measures to assist the children affected in Benghazi and also to improve the Libyan health care system to prevent a recurrence of this tragedy. Preparations to launch the action plan are at an advanced stage.

The European Union still has concerns about Libya, principally regarding human rights. The case of the Bulgarian medics is foremost among these. The conclusions of the October Council highlighted this issue, in particular, as one of our principal concerns and invited Libya to respond to the European Union's positive signals by resolving the Benghazi case speedily and satisfactorily. Ireland strongly supported this emphasis. There has not yet been any positive Libyan response to the European Union's signals. Instead there have been suggestions that the children might be offered homes in Europe or the families offered compensation by Bulgaria and the European Union.

Regarding the Irish position, Bulgaria is aware that we pushed this issue very strongly during the Irish Presidency. We have continued to keep this issue to the fore in EU discussions on Libya. We will continue to stress that the desired normalisation of EU relations with Libya will remain very difficult while this issue remains outstanding.

Deputy Mulcahy

I would like an answer to my point of order.

Chairman

I will come back to it in one moment. I understand the Chairman has the right to place an amendment or a motion before the joint committee at any time.

Deputy Mulcahy

Is it open to members to ask the Chairman to place motions before the joint committee at any time and without notice?

Chairman

It is a matter for the discretion of the Chair at the time.

Deputy Mulcahy

I thought the normal procedure for motions was that all members should receive notice of motions on the agenda.

Chairman

That is what would normally be done. In this case there is the question of time and urgency. The hearing is due to be held on 29 March.

Deputy Mulcahy

I have every sympathy regarding the issue and may end up voting for the motion. However, the text could have been circulated to members with the agenda one or two days ago.

Chairman

The meeting was brought to our attention on Wednesday afternoon last. Thursday was St. Patrick's Day. I see no difficulty in doing this. If I did, I would not recommend it.

Deputy Allen

In view of that advice, the Chairman is entitled to move a motion and I accept his right to do so.

Deputy Mulcahy

I concur. In keeping with best practice, motions should be placed on the agenda.

Chairman

There is no doubt about that. Is the motion agreed? Agreed.

A parliamentary delegation from China will be visiting Ireland from 4-6 April 2005. It will be led by Her Excellency Madame He Luli, vice-chairperson of the Standing Committee of the Tenth National People's Congress. It is proposed to meet the delegation at 2.30 p.m. on Tuesday, 5 April 2005. Madame He Luli is president of one of the five major parties in China.

Deputy Mulcahy

I did not know they had more than one party.

Chairman

Neither did I. The delegation will be here for a couple of days and will meet officials from the Department of Foreign Affairs. Is it agreed that we will meet it?

Deputy Mulcahy

Will we meet it at a committee meeting?

Chairman

Yes.

Deputy Mulcahy

Certain items should be on the agenda, including the proposed arms sale to China, the type of arms and why they want them, as well as the current state of relations between China and Taiwan. I would like to receive a briefing from the secretariat on the following items: the recent resolution passed at the party congress in China authorising the use of force against Taiwan in the event that Taiwan declares independence; the current European thinking on ending the embargo on the exportation of arms to China — there is supposed to be a draft protocol on what arms can or cannot be sold; and why the Americans, in particular, are against the European Union ending the arms embargo. I would like, as a matter of courtesy, the Chinese delegation to be made fully aware that these issues will be raised in order that they will not be taken by surprise.

Chairman

There will be a full briefing on all the current issues, including humanitarian and trade matters.

Deputy Mulcahy

They should be told.

Chairman

I agree with the Deputy that they are all items for discussion. However, how one tells others something is another matter. One can tell them that these are our concerns and ask them the reasons for their position and establish the point. The ambassador will be very concerned about the visit generally. It will also involve a friendship visit to the Ceann Comhairle. All items can be discussed.

Deputy Mulcahy

I am not suggesting diplomatic niceties should not be observed but coming to the point of plain talking on some of the issues involved. The recent Chinese convention on Taiwan was extremely aggressive from a Taiwanese point of view and cannot be skirted over.

Chairman

One can obviously be hard as well as soft. There is nothing to stop the issues being raised. A person with experience at that level must know how we feel about a range of issues.

The AWEPA parliamentary conference on peace will be held in the Great Lakes region, Nairobi from 14-16 April. We have received an invitation to attend the conference which is organised by AWEPA and AMANI. Unfortunately, the dates for the conference conflict with other commitments. The joint committee is due to meet a delegation from Pakistan on 13 April. Nonetheless it might be possible to send a delegation of perhaps two members. In view of the close proximity of the conference, perhaps the convenors would let us know if members would like to travel. We will talk to them after the meeting. Is anybody interested in going?

Deputy Allen

I do not know.

Chairman

We have received a schedule of proposals considered by the Sub-Committee on EU Scrutiny. No proposals have been referred to this committee for scrutiny. It is proposed to note the correspondence. Is that agreed? Agreed.

The Foreign Minister of Timor-Leste, Dr. Ramos Horta, will visit Ireland on Tuesday, 12 April and has sought a private meeting at 11 a.m. With Rev. Carlos Belo, the Roman Catholic Bishop of East Timor, Dr. Horta won the 1996 Nobel Peace Prize. He is the first Foreign Minister of East Timor. It is proposed that a small number of members and I will be available to meet him. Is that agreed? Agreed.

Deputy Mulcahy

Is the visit to the national assembly in Ankara still going ahead?

Chairman

The invitation was withdrawn due to austerity measures.

The human rights sub-committee wants to send two members to Geneva for the meeting on human rights. Did members receive a copy of this request? Is it agreed that one or two representatives will go? Agreed.

The joint committee adjourned at 5.20 p.m. sine die.