JOINT COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS debate -
Tuesday, 21 Jun 2005

Visit of Presidential Delegation from the State Union of Serbia and Montenegro.

Chairman

We have received apologies from Deputies Michael D. Higgins, Tony Dempsey and O'Donnell and Senators Norris and Mooney.

I welcome President Marovic, Minister Ivanovic, who is the Minister for International Economic Relations, and the rest of the delegation from the State Union of Serbia and Montenegro. Members will be aware that the State Union of Serbia and Montenegro was formally established in February 2003. As such, it is a fledgling union in a region of Europe which has not enjoyed political or social harmony in recent years. It is, therefore, all the more impressive that the State Union of Serbia and Montenegro can claim to have made significant progress towards opening discussions with the European Union. The European Commission is currently drafting a negotiation mandate. The political future of the State Union of Serbia and Montenegro is somewhat uncertain. There is a strong likelihood that an independence referendum will take place in Montenegro early in 2006.

I hope that our discussions this morning will be of some assistance to President Marovic and his Government and that his meetings this week, particularly with the Taoiseach, Deputy Bertie Ahern, will be fruitful and informative.

I now invite President Marovic to address the joint committee. Perhaps his Minister will then say a few words. They are very welcome to Ireland and the committee.

President of Serbia and Montenegro (Mr. Svetozar Marovic)

It is a great honour for me to greet the joint committee on behalf on our delegation. Our talks with the Taoiseach and Members of the Irish Parliament confirm this country's understanding of our goals and objectives towards integration with the European Union. The priority for Serbia and Montenegro, with all other countries in the western Balkans region, is to join the Union and we have made some important steps in recent months to accelerate this process. The obligations which have troubled and prevented us from doing so are directly linked to the past. However, we are on the way to eliminating them, particularly in respect of Ratko Mladic. We will be able to complete these obligations in the coming months and begin the negotiating process for the stabilisation and association agreement which will begin in October and further accelerate the process of European integration.

By the end of the year we expect to be received as a member of Partnership for Peace which will mark 2005 as the year of European successes for Serbia and Montenegro. It is important for us to achieve these successes this year, not only for the reasons I have outlined but also because of the situation in Kosovo-Metohija which, as the joint committee will know, has been ongoing for a number of years. There was another outburst of violence and ethnic cleansing last March which made the involved parties and partners aware of their responsibilities. I hope negotiations on the future status of Kosovo-Metohija will begin next October. When we speak about issues related to Kosovo-Metohija, we are very much in favour of meaningful dialogue, compromise and multi-ethnicity, without extreme approaches being adopted and excluding Albania and Prstina from the process. The assistance of the international community will encourage the process and help find a long-term stable solution based on democracy because only the democratic solution guarantees stability and longevity.

I do not want to try to predict what the future status of Kosovo-Metohija will be. However, its future status cannot be sought in the past or the existing state of affairs. We should search for a specific solution which would be satisfactory to everybody, meaning that nobody would win or lose everything. It would be a win-win solution. However, it is not possible to predict what will happen.

As the joint committee is probably aware, the right of every member state to hold a referendum has been stipulated by the constitutional charter. Montenegro will certainly try to exercise this right at the beginning of 2006. Discussions are ongoing on the standards which should be applied when dealing with the issue. The law in Montenegro is highly harmonised with European standards in law. However, I must stress that there is no single harmonised practice in the European Union. The existing legislation in Montenegro was recently taken into consideration and we will soon have an opinion on the matter.

Apart from the legal context, the political aspect is important. In Montenegro, it is necessary to have a consensus among all major political forces and an ability to accept the final result of the referendum. This is important because a referendum should not be a means per se but it should rather introduce Montenegro or Serbia, if the latter decides to go in that direction, to a more democratic and European society. On behalf of the State Union, Montenegro and all the officials in Serbia, I must state that everyone will do everything in their power to organise a referendum, applying the highest possible European standards and trying to avoid jeopardising the stability of Montenegro, the region and the entire western Balkans.

The issues of Kosovo-Metohija and the referendum in Montenegro are frequently linked. Some people tend to say that the referendum could prejudge the future solution for the matter of Kosovo-Metohija. For this reason, we should tread carefully when contemplating the referendum. As the members know, however, Kosovo-Metohija was an open issue long before the establishment of the State Union and it existed in a much less democratic period, for example, during Tito's rule. The problem of Serbia and Montenegro was resolved by establishing the State Union in a democratic way, which should not be viewed in either a strictly positive or negative manner. It can be not be treated as an issue of life and death.

So the essence of things is not to stop the processes of integration with the European Union, whatever the solution may be. I take this opportunity to call anew for the committee's support in our attempts to accelerate the process of joining the European Union in order to reach a more democratic and stable position in this region.

There are definitely ideas to the effect that we should solve this issue through agreement and there are ideas coming from Montenegro that perhaps the State Union should be transformed into a union of independent states, which would allow a constructive approach towards this issue. Establishing the State Union meant that a victory was achieved over a past that incorporated extremist ways of thinking. This was achieved in a spirit of democratic thinking. Agreement is something we should try to achieve because it is the basis for prosperity. If there is no agreement, it would just bring us back to the past.

In any event, the wish of most of the citizens of Serbia and Montenegro to join the European Union will guarantee democracy, democratic processes and stability in seeking solutions in respect of these issues. In conclusion, I am optimistic in this respect. It is encouraging for us that at the summit of the Heads of State of the European Union, the goals and objectives of the Thessaloniki declarations regarding the enlargement of the European Union — which is a priority issue for us — were reaffirmed.

Chairman

I strongly assure President Marovic of our support in the work he is trying to do and for Serbia and Montenegro with regard to the stabilisation and association agreement and its progression towards membership of the European Union. Ireland is a very small state in a very big union and has achieved a major dividend in terms of peace, development and stability. We long for such a dividend for the people of Serbia and Montenegro. Consequently, we appreciate their optimistic approach which is important in the difficult circumstances in which they find themselves at this stage.

One of the issues which worries me in terms of stability is the level of unemployment which currently stands at almost 32%. This must be a major destabilising influence in Serbia and Montenegro. Perhaps President Marovic will comment on how he hopes to deal with this.

President Marovic

I will ask the Minister for International Economic Relations, Mr. Predrag Ivanovic, to reply.

Mr. Predrag Ivanovic

The Chairman is quite right. One of the greatest socio-economic problems faced by Serbia and Montenegro is its high unemployment rate, while another is its large budget deficit. These are two key issues we face at this stage of reform. We have achieved macro-economic stability and the growth target of 8% of GDP, while the rate of inflation and the budget deficit are under control.

We are working intensively on privatisation of state-owned enterprises, 65% of which have now been privatised. We are privatising the major state systems and banks. In order to do this we need direct foreign investment or, more specifically, greenfield investment. The most important investments in Serbia and Montenegro are so-called brownfield investments, whereby state-owned enterprises are privatised. However, we need greenfield investment to create employment opportunities, new products for new markets and new branches in the economy.

The need for greenfield investment in the state union is directly linked to the process of European integration, which link is demonstrated by the experience of Ireland and other countries which went through a transition period. The positive feasibility study evaluation, the initiation of the stabilisation and association agreement negotiations as well as our membership of Partnership for Peace create a good political basis for further development and investment.

We have worked hard on improving the investment climate in the country and our efforts were commended by the annual assembly of the European Bank for Reconstruction and Development, EBRD, which met in Belgrade recently. All major European banks as well as the World Bank have a presence in Serbia and Montenegro, with an overall capital figure of between €800 million and €1 billion. The presence of the major European banks, a stable political climate, the European integration process, positive investment conditions and the strength of the free trade agreements with our neighbours, including Russia, have all created a good climate for foreign investment.

Our approach to solving our problems is similar to the one adopted by Ireland. The Irish experience is a very useful example for us. I hope we will soon see greenfield investment by Irish companies and enterprises in Serbia and Montenegro. Perhaps members can best understand our current position and how we can work to improve it. I thank the joint committee for its undivided attention.

Chairman

Delegates can be assured of the interest of our people working in economic and administrative spheres to give any assistance possible. Future development will depend on stability in the region. In that respect, we are also contributing to the United Nations with regard to the mission in Kosovo. Delegates have our full administrative support in any arrangements they wish to discuss.

I will now give Deputies and Senators the opportunity to ask questions. I acknowledge Mr. Brendan McMahon, our ambassador to Serbia and Montenegro, and thank him for being here today. I will now hand over to Deputy Durkan who is a member of the main Opposition party, Fine Gael.

Deputy Durkan

I welcome President Marovic, his Minister, ambassador and the entire delegation to Ireland. I hope they have a fruitful stay, that they receive important information and perhaps even convey some to us.

The delegates have come from a very interesting place and at a very interesting time. Like Serbia and Montenegro, Ireland has had its own experiences of ethnic violence based on suspicion, tradition, religion, culture and hatred. People on both parts on the island are in the process of attempting to encourage the next and ultimate phase of the peace process. We hope the efforts of the Irish and British Governments and the constituent bodies in Northern Ireland will be successful. It is imperative that we do everything possible to encourage them. As the Chairman said, a most important economic dividend derives from peace.

The delegates also come at a time when the European Union is looking inward and reappraising its progress. There is now a tendency within the Union to renationalise, as it were, and harp back to the good old days when there was a greater degree of autonomy and each member state had more control over its own affairs. There is merit in both arguments but as the Union moves forward, as it must, it is imperative that each constituent state recognises and takes on board the needs of its neighbours. I have no doubt that eventually the Union will reassert itself and each member state will blend with its neighbours for the development of all European countries. I would not be too disheartened by some of the wayward comments heard in recent times because they have been heard many times before. In the end wisdom will prevail. Therein lies the advantage for all of us. The President visits us at an interesting time from the point of view of development of Montenegro's own union and its relationship with and ultimate membership of the European Union. While I am loath to advise anybody, Montenegro knows best how to proceed. It is obvious the route it is taking is the correct one. Trying to put behind it the difficulties of the past is vitally important but moving forward as a single united group towards the European Union is equally important. It is most important to stay on the route of acquis communitaire, the road map which will eventually lead Montenegro into the European Union. Any departure from it would not be in its own interests.

Many commentators have stated in recent weeks and on prior occasions that the European Union is moving forward at too fast a pace. I do not agree with this assessment. It is imperative that the European Union stays on track and that those within it recognise that countries on the outside looking in such as Montenegro would be much safer inside than outside, both from their own point of view and that of the Union.

Deputy Carey

I welcome the President, the Minister, the ambassador and the rest of the delegation. I am delighted that they were able to attend. I have listened carefully to their presentation. The delegation has come before the committee at an important time for the Serbian and Montenegran people and for the member states of the European Union. I would not blame the members of the delegation if they felt discouraged or disappointed by the message sent by the European summit last weekend. There is no point in disguising the fact that the European project has suffered a setback. There is a crisis that will not go away easily and areas such as the delegation's may regrettably suffer.

My colleagues have heard me say repeatedly that it is the European Union's imperative to reach a stage when the Balkans have been stabilised. While the European Union stands in solidarity with Serbia and Montenegro, it is with regret that I must say it did very little when unspeakable atrocities and savagery occurred in the region. The latter taught us lessons for the future. From the European point of view, our actions must change.

Like the State Union — although not as recently — our country has a bloody past. It is difficult for people to put such matters behind them. In my opinion, President Marovic is dedicated to undertaking a democratic way forward, which is a sine qua non in terms of belonging to the international community. In terms of dialogue with the international community, it should be remembered that such dialogue is a two-way process. The State Union of Serbia and Montenegro must listen to the wishes and views of the international community and that community must listen to its views. I welcome the assertion in Carla Del Ponte’s report in the past week regarding the level of co-operation with the International Criminal Tribunal. This co-operation must continue and, in my view, accelerate. There are no other options.

Membership of or association with the European Union involves respect for democracy, human rights and the rule of law. Democracy is not just the icing on the cake but rather a fundamental tenet of involvement in the EU. From an economic and political point of view, the international community and the EU will stand strongly in solidarity with Serbia and Montenegro but much work must be done by the delegation's people and their neighbours. I do not pretend that all this work must by carried out by the Government of Serbia and Montenegro alone. Senator Mooney, Deputy Durkan, who was Chairman of the Joint Committee on European Affairs when the ten accession states were preparing for EU membership, and I visited all of these countries. We know the sacrifices that had to be made in the economic, political and social arenas. Serbia and Montenegro is capable of the same drive and must make the same sacrifice but the prize — participation in a zone of peace and stability — is enormous.

There may be setbacks. What is happening at present is probably a temporary setback. However, my priority — and, I believe, that of the Irish Government — is to ensure that the Balkans region is secured and made stable so that it becomes an important part of the international community once more, rather than remaining an area about which people will constantly wonder when conflict will erupt again. We have learned some lessons and I hope we can put them to good effect.

Senator Mooney

I endorse everything that has been said by my colleagues, including our esteemed Chairman, regarding the welcome extended to President Marovic and his delegation. I also fully agree with everything my friend and colleague, Deputy Carey, said.

As a student of history, I could not help but reflect that if President Marovic and his delegation had come here some 90 years ago representing the then Kingdom of Serbia, they would have received a great deal of sympathy. It is interesting how international relations change. The delegation arrives here today to not quite the same degree of sympathy because many people in this country remember the exodus of Kosovar refugees following Serb aggression in Kosovo in 1999. Many of these refugees settled here for a short period, so Irish people are very aware — and have obviously formed opinions and taken positions on — who were the heroes and villains during that period. Serbia and Montenegro must embark on a large public relations exercise in terms of the views of ordinary people in this country, as distinct from those perhaps of the Government. President Marovic should be aware of that.

Will Serbia and Montenegro continue to make the efforts in respect of two key areas that are of interest to Irish people? The first of these is the question of people who are still missing from Kosovo following the aggression there in 1999.

I appreciate that the Government of Serbia and Montenegro has resumed direct dialogue with Prstina and Belgrade in recent months. This came after a long break which created enormous human difficulties for people looking for the bodies of family members in Serbia. Stories emanating from Belgrade, to which I attach great credibility, speak of bodies being found where no forensic examination was carried out and the authorities stalling when it came to returning them. This humanitarian issue strikes at the very heart of the relationship that President Marovic and his government intend to build between Serbia and Ireland and must be addressed by him.

We live with the memory of Srebrenica. I cannot accept that the Government of Serbia and Montenegro, with all the resources and state aparatus at its disposal and the client state, Republika Srpska, cannot locate Mr. Mladic and Mr. Karadzic. Let me say with all the passion and commitment I can muster that until and unless both murdering thugs are brought to international justice, there will be a question mark over the commitment and ability of Serbia and Montenegro to enter into the family of nations that is the European Union.

Chairman

Would President Marovic like to make a brief reply?

President Marovic

Yes. I agree that we need to improve public relations and the image of the country. We are not trying to hide missing persons. It is true missing persons are being sought. As members might know, after the fall of the Milosevic regime, the democratic authorities discovered the missing bodies. The matter will be resolved and brought to a conclusion.

Being a historian, I ask the Senator to bear the truth in mind. It is true that during the Milosevic regime many Albanians left Kosovo but it is also true that many Serbs left Kosovo-Metohija after the Milosevic regime. The Senator found it necessary to mention the Albanians but he failed to mention the 250,000 Serbs who have left Kosovo-Metohija, not because they wanted to but because they were forced to flee. Along with us, the committee can influence public opinion, which we should both try to do, and present the truth to prevent evil.

I am ashamed of what happened at Srebrenica. It is the crime of all crimes. It is a symbol of killing in the former Yugoslavia and will remain as a metaphor for disintegration and of crimes committed. We will do everything in our power to bring to justice those responsible, including General Mladic. However, Radovan Karadzic is not on our territory; he is on that of Bosnia-Herzegovina. As the committee is aware, a senior British official is representing the international community in that territory. His job has not been easy, despite the authority and power he commands in both the civil and military administration.

Senator Mooney

Surely Karadzic is in Srpska rather than in Bosnia-Herzegovina?

President Marovic

The Senator is no doubt aware that the Republic of Srpska is within Bosnia-Herzegovina. Perhaps he is suggesting a new proposition. In any event, all international services trained in this respect are co-operating with our services and are doing everything possible to arrest Karadzic and Mladic. We seek to join the European Union, of which Ireland is already a member. We will do everything we can to arrest the people in question and, while doing so, try to present the facts to the committee.

Chairman

I thank President Marovic. The Federation of Irish Societies wants to make an oral submission to the committee. Its request to do so was submitted by Senator Mooney. Is that agreed? Agreed. We will send a letter with regard to the other matter raised by the Senator.

I thank President Marovic for attending. We have very little time to discuss the practical details but I am interested in them because we became greatly involved in considering the details of economic development and unemployment in the State Union of Serbia and Montenegro. We offer him every assistance and support we can in those areas and wish him very well in his endeavours.

President Marovic

I thank the Chairman very much.

The joint committee adjourned at 12.10 p.m. sine die.