I welcome Ms Mary Akrami, director of the Afghan Women's Skills Development Centre, AWSDC. She is accompanied by Mr. Terence G. K. O'Malley and Mr. Brian Hamilton Rodgers from SAFE, an NGO which focuses in its work on Afghanistan. The AWSDC was established in 1999 by a group of committed Afghan women with the aim of reducing the suffering of Afghan women and children through the promotion of peace and rehabilitation and development programmes. As its name suggests, it is a programme for Afghan women with vocational skills and facilities for information designed to enable women to become more self-reliant and improve their status in the family and the community. Over the years the centre has shown its ability to help the women of Afghanistan. I call on Mr. O'Malley to introduce Ms Akrami, who will tell us more about her organisation, its work and the situation facing women in Afghanistan.
Women’s Rights in Afghanistan: Presentation.
Mr. Terence O’Malley
Ms Akrami is a 30-year old native of Kabul. This is the first time an Afghan woman has spoken to an Oireachtas committee. Before coming to Ireland she appeared in Brussels and attended two meetings of the European network of NGOs working in Afghanistan. She was the first Afghan woman ever to attend their meetings. On 12 October she spoke about women's rights to the European Parliament, where the main speaker was Mr. Francesc Vendrell. Again, she was the only Afghan woman present. Throughout that meeting not one sentence was spoken by members about women's rights in Afghanistan until she stood and spoke for approximately 15 to 20 minutes on their situation. SAFE brought her to Ireland because it wished to help her and could do so only by bringing her here and giving her an opportunity to tell people about her situation and that of women in Afghanistan.
It has been a testing time for Ms Akrami because Ramadan has just finished. It entails the Muslim obligation of fasting from sunrise until sunset. Nothing passed her lips, not even a glass of water from 6 a.m. until 6 p.m., until yesterday. I am glad to say that yesterday she had a very big pizza. It has been tough. She has attended a number of meetings. The day after she arrived she attended the annual conference of the Irish Federation of University Women in the Burlington Hotel and its gala dinner that night. Fortunately, the gala dinner took place after sunset; otherwise she would have gone hungry. To attend meetings and speak to people at length during the day is taxing and she is brave to do so.
I am familiar with her situation in Afghanistan and the peace-building work she does in civil society there. I also know about the shelter programme she operates in Kabul. The programme is not without its dangers, because it is not entirely recognised in Afghanistan. The shelter helps women who have been raped or abused and young women trying to escape a forced marriage or engagement. It also helps young children who have been victims of, or who have witnessed, extreme violence. At the moment there are more than 30 people in a shelter designed for just over 20.
I will hand over to Ms Akrami to tell members of the joint committee her own story. She has experienced the war and the resulting difficulties in Afghanistan. She became a refugee in Pakistan and made it her task to learn English, which is not her first language, and to study computers. She laboured long and hard with a group of committed ladies to gain recognition for women, much of the time without any success. She attended the Bonn conference after 9/11 and the fall of the Taliban. Even in Bonn she was denigrated by one of the Afghan men. She says "gender" refers to men, not women. These are some of the difficulties that Ms Akrami has faced and continues to face. However, she is slowly making progress and conquering.
Ms Mary Akrami
Mr. O'Malley has given so much information about me that there is nothing left to say about my work and the situation in Afghanistan. It is my great pleasure to be present today in the company of members of the Irish Government to talk about the plight of women in Afghanistan and I appreciate the opportunity.
Mr. O'Malley spoke about how my organisation began. I am aged 30 years, which means I have experienced 30 years of war in Afghanistan. I am a member of a luckless generation in having had to suffer such tribulations. I completed school in Kabul despite the war, which caused many problems and much suffering. I successfully graduated from high school in Kabul but the situation worsened after the Taliban came to power and the cause of women's rights deteriorated greatly. It was not exclusively the fault of the Taliban because when any new government came to power in Afghanistan women and children were the first to see and suffer all the problems, as we did.
After that we became refugees in Pakistan, where it was difficult to get a job or to find any means of supporting ourselves or our families. We left to learn English and computer science but I was not, even in Pakistan, able to complete my education satisfactorily because access to good higher education was difficult.
As a group we decided to share our knowledge and to consider how we could pass on what we had learned to other people, especially women and girls who were refugees in Pakistan. We wanted to do something to help them. We succeeded and established this organisation and worked for three years as volunteers in Pakistan.
After the terrorist attacks in the United States on 11 September 2001, people expected many changes because 30 years is a long time to suffer these problems and the loss of more than 10 million people. We were hoping for some positive changes, especially regarding women's rights, as the situation changed. At that time the Taliban treated women badly but when the situation changed, much international assistance came to support the Government and continues to do so. Afghan women, however, still do not have access to basic education, health care, water, sanitation, food and the necessities required for all Afghan people to be able to live in peace and security. Unfortunately, there is no peace or security. Women and children suffer and face many problems.
Many people are still at war, although in different groups. They have simply changed their clothes, not their minds. These are the people in power in parliament and cabinet. There are no women in senior positions who can act for women's benefit because there are no opportunities for women. There is only one woman minister but she has male advisers, although she is the Minister for Women's Affairs. There are also some women members of parliament but even there they do not have the right to say anything because all those who fought before under different names are in power and in senior positions. Women can do nothing, even with some encouragement. At heart it is not possible to act. Although groups come to help the reconstruction and development of Afghanistan, no such groups come to help women receive an education.
Women in rural areas do not have access to basic education, let alone higher education. There are a few women in Kabul, as there were before the war, who have access to higher education. We expected that, given the interest the international community shows in Afghanistan, it would support Afghan women, but it ignores the position of women, who form 60% of the population. International agencies did not give women a chance to be involved in the reconstruction and development of Afghanistan.
Women suffer many problems in Afghanistan, especially violence. If a woman is at risk from violence even those at senior level in Government sit back and say it is a family issue. Women's issues are regarded as family issues and women have no individual rights. A woman is the property of the family, especially of the men. Women are second-class citizens in Afghanistan. Some women want to work for Afghanistan but there is no opportunity to do so. Therefore, I appreciate the committee providing me with the opportunity to make a presentation to it. At all levels in society, the women of Afghanistan need moral and financial support.
I note members have a high level of education. For the reconstruction of Afghanistan, the opportunity must be available for men and women to avail of education. They must be educated on human rights and, specifically, women's rights. Women must be given the opportunity to take an active part in the reconstruction and development of Afghanistan.
Many resources are available for Afghanistan but they are only for the short term. There is no long-term commitment to the country. If we approach the Afghan Government for resources, it claims it is busy with the war. Some 80% of supports from the international community go to military assistance while the remaining 20% go to civil society and its reconstruction. How is it possible for men and women to have access to education with this allocation? Even our men do not have access to education.
At a recent conference, I emphasised that we are fed up of war. Thirty years is a long time and we have lost everything. We expect all countries, especially developed countries, not to ignore Afghanistan. We need international support at different steps to provide us with good education to build the people's capacity. Those who wish to help in the reconstruction of Afghanistan do not have the opportunity to do so.
How can the Irish Government help in the reconstruction? I may be wrong that it has good relations with our Government. Ireland has much experience that can help bring about positive changes in Afghanistan. I also told the representatives of NATO and the European Commission that we need their support in development at different levels. We need to learn from Ireland how to provide for civil society, encourage women to work for Afghanistan and encourage our people in learning about human and women's rights.
Mr. O’Malley
Last week when we visited the Dublin Rape Crisis Centre, I left Ellen O'Malley-Dunlop and Mary Akrami together for one hour. When I returned Mary Akrami's eyes were glowing because she was wonderfully encouraged by Ellen O'Malley-Dunlop's undertaking to go to Kabul to see the centre. Furthermore, she said the Dublin Rape Crisis Centre would consider training a person from Ms Akrami's centre here in Dublin. This was a practical form of help.
Some years ago I approached several aid agencies in Ireland seeking financial assistance for the purposes of training an Afghani person here. I received apologies from each on the basis that they only provide such assistance for their own personnel. Several thousand euro is spent in sending staff to a university or training centre in Afghanistan but the agencies are not willing to give that money to a person from abroad.
What Afghanistan needs, what Ms Akrami needs, is the professional training of a trauma counsellor by a child psychologist skilled in post-conflict trauma. There is no such person in Kabul or elsewhere in Afghanistan. I have been travelling there for 14 years and I am aware of what is going on. Aid agency staff from Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Germany, England and elsewhere go there for a fortnight, one month, or six weeks at the most. These people are paid an enormous salary but cannot speak the language and must communicate through an interpreter. However, they return home in the belief they have provided effective training to a member of staff there. It is utter nonsense.
It would be far more advantageous, representing thousands of euro in aid, to allow an Afghani person to be trained professionally in this country for a year. That would have tremendous long-term benefits and I ask any representatives of Irish Aid who are attending this meeting to consider it seriously. We must concern ourselves not with what we believe should be done but with what the Afghan people want and need. They certainly need financial assistance but they also need constant moral encouragement and contact. That is what Ms O'Malley-Dunlop has provided.
Ms Akrami mentioned basic human rights. Some development is evident in urban areas, particularly in Kabul, where the construction of high-rise apartments is probably funded by drug money. I am frustrated that nothing is being done in rural areas. When I heard British troops were going into Helmand and Kandahar, I thought to myself that they were on a hiding to nothing. Britain and the United States will not win there. I know the Afghan people. There will be many body bags.
Frustration and dissatisfaction are building up within Afghanistan in regard to the Afghan Government. As I said to Ms Akrami earlier, I met Ministers in the Afghan Parliament as well as male representatives of Afghan NGOs. It is all about "me, me, me" with them; they display a mé féin attitude. The welfare of the country is down the list of their priorities. Ms Akrami has pointed out that many of these people have very little education. More than 80% of Afghanistan is rural and the people there see what is happening. They realise they are not getting the benefits they should have received for several years.
It is little wonder the Taliban is gaining in strength once more. It was successful initially because people were so tired of the infighting. I was there at the time. Now people see the corruption on a massive scale in Kabul. They recognise that money is not coming to them and that nothing is happening in rural areas. A spokesperson for President Karzai said in a statement after a recent conference in London that 75% of people in Afghanistan now have access to basic health care. That is a complete lie.
We appreciate the scale of the difficulty, which Ms Akrami has indicated. We have a good deal of information on Afghanistan, particularly in view of today's meeting. We are aware of what has gone on over a longer period but this discussion with the witnesses helps to focus matters. We know how difficult the situation is in Afghanistan and of the major problem with heroin and that side of the issue. My colleagues and I believe the kind of work being done by Mr. O'Malley has lasting value and will help to build up Afghanistan and its people, which is where self-help and education come in.
Mr. O'Malley stated that above all the people of Afghanistan need help with education, both for women and men. I am delighted to hear Mr. O'Malley refer to men because when we set up grant schemes in the 1980s, which were very effective for women, our difficulty was in getting men to make use of them. For every 1,000 women's groups established, there were only five or six men's groups. Mr. O'Malley's figures point to the major literacy problems among men.
We could spend much time discussing Afghanistan but as Mr. O'Malley is on the ground doing worthwhile work and knows what needs to be done, it might be preferable for the committee to put him in touch with Irish Aid. Since January 2002 Irish Aid has spent more than €32 million on aid and assistance to Afghanistan. We could take up Mr. O'Malley's issues and work with Irish Aid on his behalf. It would appear to be the kind of work that is necessary.
Perhaps my colleagues will now comment. I do not want to cut Mr. O'Malley short but I do not want to discuss the whole problem. I appreciate the points he made, which are very relevant. It is no harm to hear them again from one who is as involved as directly as Mr. O'Malley.
Mr. O’Malley
With respect, I speak with the experience of 14 years. I regularly travel with and stay with Afghans. I would like to make one point. This modest lady, Ms Akrami, set up a walking club in Kabul which walked in the grounds of the Continental Hotel, with some of the ladies dressed in burqas. They were stopped and congratulated by men. Unfortunately, because of the spate of suicide bombs in Kabul, they had to stop for security reasons. Nonetheless, she set up that walking club.
When I wrote to the Chairman asking him to receive Ms Mary Akrami and Mr. Terence O'Malley of SAFE, I knew we would hear an important first-hand account of events in Afghanistan. As we are running late, I will deal with the business as expeditiously as possible. I would like to make two proposals. The first is that we should ask Irish Aid to re-examine the applications made by SAFE in recent years and allocate funding to it. The second proposal is that we should consider the block allocations we are making and test these with regard to gender proofing.
In 2003 we gave just under €4.5 million to different NGOs, including GOAL, Trócaire, Christian Aid, Concern, UNDP, UNICEF and, in particular, the Afghan Reconstruction Trust Fund, which is administered by the World Bank. I will not go into the matter because it can be dealt with by Irish Aid. However, between 2003 and 2006, although applications were made, no funding was provided for SAFE. I am strongly in favour of such funding and now suggest that it be provided.
I refer to the gender proofing of our contribution to the core funding of the World Bank's trust fund, which came to €1.5 million, €1.5 million, €500,000 and €1 million in 2003, 2004, 2005 and 2006, respectively. I am in favour of so doing, as submitting to gender proofing the manner in which the World Bank spends its money encourages it to adopt better practices — and not simply in Afghanistan. A worrying feature of this issue is that the easiest way for a concerned Government to commit itself to the decisions made after the Tokyo reconstruction conference is to transmit its money through Government channels. However, there is strong evidence that a better set of human rights conditionalities and better formation of civil society would be achieved with project-led disbursal. My second proposal is that gender proofing should be considered in respect of the investment-related technical assistance plan, to ascertain whether the question can be addressed in this manner.
At present, a total of €3,050,000 has been allocated for the year 2006, which constitutes a fall from the 2003 figure of €4.4 million. In the short term, given its commitment of such funds, Irish Aid should consider making up the shortfall with a particular emphasis on education. In particular, this should take into account the development needs of women, as 60% of the population of Afghanistan are women. The education issue is very worrying and I would prefer to see money going to basic education and personnel.
I have been studying development literature for a long time and have perceived that we could have achieved much better results in Africa, had we invested in agricultural transition involving low, appropriate and indigenous technology. Instead, we related to Africa through the elites, who did not have great interest in power being either dispersed or coming up through the villages. In respect of the post-Tokyo conference, we are in danger of doing the same thing. Although we are trying to approach the problem through the top with the exception of a small part of it, even the capital city itself lacks security. The best result we can achieve from this relationship is to avoid repeating the mistakes we have made elsewhere. I suggest we should listen to how a strong effect can be achieved by adopting a different strategy.
Moreover, when in discussion with non-governmental organisations, questions should be asked of them regarding the fit between needs and cultural practice in Afghanistan, as well as their own practices, which are also an important issue. At this stage of my life, I have realised that villages in Africa or Afghanistan do not need a dozen four-wheel drives from different agencies. If this matter is to be discussed frankly, the issues of coherence, consistency and best means of transfer must be discussed.
Those who must bear this issue in mind should consider the 4.2 million children going to school who will benefit. In Ireland, people find it difficult to understand that life expectancy in Afghanistan is 43 years and the literacy rate for women is 14%. If Irish Aid is to prioritise its aid expenditure, it should focus it on where the need is greatest, where it can have the greatest impact and where it can probably do it most efficiently and with the best result in a genuinely democratic way through education. We do not need an endless list of suggestions of how democracy can be imposed from outside in Afghanistan. Anyone who looks at the history of the region will know that civil society formations, particularly those at the most basic educational and gender equality levels, are probably the best way to go forward.
I salute the courage and integrity of Mary Akrami. It is a remarkable example to us who are privileged not to live in such a disturbed society, particularly one which has been disturbed largely by Western intervention. The tragedy of Afghanistan appears to lie in the fact that it has had a history of having proxy wars fought within it by some of the great powers. I also salute the work of Mr. O'Malley and Mr. Hamilton Rogers because at the Irish end, it is very important to have people like them to bring to our attention the kind of situation that Ms Akrami has worked through.
Many people in Ireland, myself included, had our attention first forcibly directed to the dreadful situation in Afghanistan precisely because of the appalling mistreatment of women under the Taliban. We remembered stories of women not being allowed to have cancer operations because the surgeons were male, which was an utter trampling of the most basic of human rights. We did have a horror of that but the military situation is disastrous. This was confirmed by everything I heard this afternoon. Afghanistan has never proved itself amenable to this kind of military intervention. The British ought to have known this. They received a bloody nose in the 19th century. Why are they going back for another black eye? The Americans ought to know. They helped establish the Taliban in the first place, a policy which backfired. Will they ever learn not to start winding up these clockwork Trojan horses and sending them out where they just turn around and whack into their own camp?
The military situation is a mess. In respect of the rural areas and the lack of intervention, there is no control over them. As far as I am aware, the remit of the Government in Kabul simply does not run in these areas, although if I am wrong, please tell me. I would be delighted to think there was a central government but I do not believe there is. I do not believe it is even effective within Kabul. If Ms Akrami had the wonderful human idea of starting a walking club in the grounds of a hotel but was forced to stop even that, this tells its own story. One can add to this the situation concerning the opium poppy and the nonsensical idea that they were going to wipe it out. The problem is worse than ever. The market in the US is sucking it in.
Ireland is a small country even though there is a so-called economic miracle in progress. I do not trust miracles and I hope this one lasts. However, at the moment, we seem to be doing well. We have a certain amount of money at our disposal but we cannot simply splash it around in a way whereby we do not know what the result will be. We should learn some very valuable lessons from what Ms Akrami has said here today. At best, much of the financial intervention is wasteful. At worst, as described both by Mr. O'Malley and Ms Akrami, it is a kind of crisis tourism. People who do not speak the language float in with no knowledge of the culture, are very impressed with their own goodness and then bugger off again, having done nothing. One point that may not have been taken up or was perhaps missed by me was one of the most important things said by Ms Akrami. There is a very efficient way of helping in Afghanistan which would, to use the acronym, be "totally safe" from the point of view of Irish personnel and would not risk anything — only a few thousand euro here and there. No personnel would be exposed to the dangers Ms Akrami so bravely endured. It involves agreeing to train people here. As a result of acting decently and in a humane manner, we establish contacts which may be valuable in the future when a proper civil government is established in Afghanistan, as we all hope it is.
This committee has no remit to spend money, except for the odd old trip. However, the Chairman and the committee have influence. It is an all-party committee that does not break down along partisan lines, which is useful. I suggest this committee carefully examines how we can influence the spending of our resources.
I understand the Dublin Rape Crisis Centre is prepared to train people from Afghanistan.
Mr. O’Malley
Yes.
That should be encouraged at every possible level and this committee should welcome it as a positive action which will help the human reality of people living in Afghanistan.
It should be done for teachers. I used to teach in Trinity. I do not imagine my skills in interpreting Finnegan’s Wake would be of much use in Kabul but other people may be able to train teachers. We have programmes in other countries. Our former President, Mary Robinson, was involved in training. At present, she is involved in training at Columbia University in New York. Such programmes involve training people from communities such as those we are discussing how to influence the government to gain access to basic human rights. We also have programmes for training legal personnel. Let us conduct that training here.
There was reference to this business of sending 12 SUVs which are of damn-all use and I saw my colleague Senator Henry nodding. The best action we could take would be to spend that money to make skills available through programmes here. I hope the Chairman in his vast wisdom will find a form of words at the end of this meeting whereby the committee can encourage this and recommend it to the Government and universities. UCD has a marvellous programme in collaboration with Birzeit University in the West Bank. Perhaps it is with Bethlehem University. It has had a major effect and I would like to see universities here taking it up.
I welcome the delegation. I know Mr. O'Malley for years and I support what his organisation tries to do for Afghanistan. To hear Ms Akrami is incredible. She is an incredibly brave woman. That bravery is physical because in Afghanistan many dreadful things happened to women who tried to help other women. I am extremely depressed to hear what she stated about women in parliament having so little status. When democracy was promoted, a great scene was made by the forces in power about women having special seats. It is extremely disappointing if they are token positions.
I am also greatly upset because over the decades I have known women from Afghanistan who were doctors. They were graduates of Kabul University. What happened there? Is it finished? I met two doctors, a husband and wife, who had to flee Afghanistan years ago. Mr. O'Malley possibly knows them too. When the Taliban took power and stated women couldn't work the woman had a complicated case in the hospital. Her husband worked with the Red Crescent. She thought the rule did not include people like her but her husband told her he thought it did. He gave her a lift to the hospital where, as he turned the car, he saw her come out pursued by two men with whips. I do not know what happened to her patient but she and her husband eventually fled the country and came here.
It is dreadful to think that 15 years ago people with good third-level education dealt with women's health issues in Afghanistan and now we have this dreadful situation. I am a doctor as well as a Senator. The health figures provided by the delegation are extremely bad. The fertility rate must be one of the highest in the world. Maternity mortality rates are not listed but I remember from the UNFPA reports the rate is approximately 200 per 100,000 live births which is shocking. It is one of the worst rates in the world. Regarding health, Ireland supports the United Nations Population Fund, the UNFPA and UNICEF. I do not know how great a presence it has in Afghanistan. Those with a certain degree of training in nursing and medicine could be assisted here. We accept students at postgraduate level and could assist in this way. It is a good suggestion that psychologists could help those who were the object of violence.
The delegation makes a very important point in stating that cultural norms are taken as part of religious teachings. This is a serious matter in Afghanistan because cultural norms are constantly put forward as reasons for certain behaviour. Having read the Koran years ago, I referred to it again recently on women's dress. Apart from being told to cover one's bosom and wear distinctive clothes, it does not mention dressing the way women are obliged to dress now. The role of the family is important in women's lives and I do not know how anyone from outside Afghanistan can deal with this. If the delegation has any suggestions on this matter, we will consider them.
I am delighted the Dublin Rape Crisis Centre will assist. I was chair of the fundraising committee there for many years and if the centre promises help, one can be certain that it will be provided. Training people here would be much better than sending people to Afghanistan for three weeks, which is not satisfactory if they have to rely on interpreters.
It is worth pursuing the point raised about the World Bank. The Nobel laureate, Mr. Muhammad Yunus of Bangladesh, did much work on microeconomics, mainly addressed to women. Mr. Paul Wolfowitz is not one of my friends, although I have met him. It is worthwhile contacting the World Bank. I am a member of an organisation of world parliamentarians which keeps an eye on the World Bank. We could ask this group to address gender-proofing.
Mr. Wolfowitz has moved the World Bank to the right wing. He has US marines outside his office.
He has. He must have protection because of the way he is behaving at present. This is an area where we could do something practical for the delegation. The delegation can see that it is pushing an open door. Women in Ireland would like to help the delegation. To come from outside to help a culture such as that in Afghanistan is often not productive. We have read of cases taken under Sharia law and this concerns us. I have visited Turkey, where violence against women and honour killing is a serious problem even though Turkey has been a secular state for so long. We do not under estimate the problems. The courage of the delegation is remarkable and we pray for the safety of its members. Afghanistan is a dangerous country at present.
We are under time constraints and a number of committee members have had to leave. Does Ms Akrami wish to comment? We are all on her side and view her as a shining example of what can be done. We believe in the foundations she is creating. The process is similar to when one drops a stone in a pond and ripples emanate from it. Families will be affected in the future.
Education is at the heart of development, for the family, the community and the country. This must start at the bottom and work upwards. The development of second-chance education and the involvement of women had a significant impact here. Senator Henry mentioned women and credit. Here, too, women are known to be much better at handling finance and credit, getting home finances right and bringing their husbands and the whole family along with them.
The Chairman speaks for himself. I am more or less a man and run my own household extremely efficiently.
The witnesses should not mind what Senator Norris says. He is unusual.
I am not.
Ms Akrami
It gives me great encouragement to be here and realise that the members have all this good feeling for Afghanistan and its people. The Chairman mentioned the support of organisations such as the World Bank. While I appreciate their support, their main focus is Kabul. They have forgotten that even in Kabul women do not have the right to benefit from the centres. Time is pressing. The World Bank project provides good opportunities for women. Although I attended many workshops and seminars, unfortunately I have not seen any women from rural areas there. The focus is on Kabul.
While many people and organisations are concerned for Afghanistan, their work is short-term. There is no long-term commitment to Afghanistan. It is difficult for a women from an NGO to make contact and get access to international NGOs. In all my work I was supported by my family and friends. Only after four years was I made a partner of one international NGO that already had 13 men's organisations as members. My organisation was the lucky one women's organisation that became a partner. There are no opportunities for women's organisations to have contact with the international community. I know about Rasan, and that money for women’s affairs comes through governments and through different channels of civil society. Very little money comes to women’s organisations and there is little we can do with it. Some Afghan women are committed to taking action but there are no opportunities for them to do so.
It is a pleasure for me to come here and talk and I appreciate that Ms O'Malley-Dunlop says she will visit Afghanistan. We need moral support even more than financial. If an Afghan woman does something, everybody is against it, even sometimes authorised people in parliament. They give women no chance. However, women still struggle, as I do. I began with nothing. I did not give details before or talk about my presentation because I had already distributed it to the members. I just wanted to make some practical comments about the fact that this is still happening. Some 50 or 60 years ago it was happening in Afghanistan but it is sad for Afghan people to see many resources come to Afghanistan, but that there is no effective, high-level evaluation and monitoring system.
I appreciate that the Irish Government gives €30 million or more, but unfortunately I am not sure that there is a good evaluation or monitoring system to see that the money goes to the people of Afghanistan. It is also too difficult for me to share orders, as I have built up a good relationship with the government owing to some serious cases that we have in the shelter. Such women have no future except death, and I therefore built up a literacy project to foster good relations with the Government. I do not wish to be negative, but the situation is totally different from that in other countries, with which we cannot compare Afghanistan. It is not like Iraq or other post-conflict or underdeveloped countries.
Thank you. Perhaps Mr. O'Malley might comment briefly.
Mr. O’Malley
I will furnish a few soundbites. To answer Senator Henry's question, in some areas of Afghanistan the rate of infant mortality under the age of five is between 25% and 29%. It also has the highest maternal morbidity rate in the world. During the days of the Taliban, the situation was so bad that people in Kabul would say that women were not even allowed to die. However, today there is still the highest infant mortality rate under five and the highest maternal morbidity rate.
In rural areas people lack basic human rights, clean water, elementary education and rudimentary health care. There are areas of Afghanistan without a clinic or school. Regarding the paper citing a 14% female literacy rate, which I have not seen, I assure Senator Henry that I have visited areas where the literacy rate for both men and women is zero. I have been to areas in which I would have died if I had broken my leg. If a woman is pregnant, she will have to travel nine hours on a donkey if she is lucky.
I know what it is like in those areas. The trouble today is that aid agencies send people out on short-term contracts, and they generally stay in Kabul rather than going out to evaluate matters. Unfortunately, there has been a breakdown in trust between the community and the agencies, perhaps because of the security situation. I am still able to visit areas that others cannot, since I have been there so long. What I say is true, because I have been there and witnessed it. I could show Senator Henry photographs that would make her hair stand on end. However, I cannot publish them because they are of women and children. Starvation and famine exist, but out of pride an Afghan will not show the evidence.
I thank Mr. O'Malley and Ms Akrami for attending. Ms Akrami is a very brave person and absolutely right in what she is doing. We will certainly communicate with Irish Aid and make her needs very clear. We work in rural areas of other countries and have enjoyed great success in quite a number. My initial degrees were in agriculture, and I purposely started that kind of work in Ireland. Although people do not comment on the fact regarding countries such as Zambia, Ethiopia and Uganda, one knows without looking at the figures that 80% of people will be engaged — "employed" is not the right word — rurally. One cannot forget that reality. In Ireland that used to be true in a smaller way. In the 1950s, the figure for low-grade, low-paid agricultural work was 50%. We built up work in the cities, with people constantly migrating from the countryside. One must get into rural areas to build up micro-industries as well as larger agricultural industries, helping the people. One of the strongest aspects of the skill development approach is the self-help aspect. The situation in Afghanistan is very much like that some time ago of women in Ireland in disadvantaged areas. They were prepared to help themselves and were able to do so when they got a little help. In Afghanistan people were not getting this help. It is outstanding that when they began to get it they had the power and cleverness to use what was available and that they could build things that people might not have believed possible beforehand.
We appreciate what SAFE is doing and are pleased to have had the opportunity to meet Ms Akrami and Mr. O'Malley. We wish them success in their work. We will follow up on this with Irish Aid. At international conferences I always press the World Bank and others to work from the ground up. However, we must have governance and work with governments and people must work within this. The real future, however, is in building on the ground as SAFE is doing. We wish it every success.
Mr. O’Malley
I have a DVD which was made by Ms Akrami in Kabul. It is based on a true story written by Mary. I will give it to Senator Henry or Deputy Michael D. Higgins and other members may see it. It is a powerful and true story.
I think there are facilities here for making copies and perhaps we can ask the technical experts to make them so that committee members can each get a copy.