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Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs and Defence debate -
Tuesday, 18 Apr 2023

Global Progress and Sustainable Development Goals: Discussion

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

Apologies have been received from the Chair, Deputy Flanagan. Deputy Carthy will be substituting for Deputy Brady.

The first item on our agenda is a meeting with representatives from Dóchas to discuss the global progress and the sustainable development goals. The following witnesses are with us for the meeting today: from Dóchas, Ms Jane Ann McKenna, CEO; from GOAL, Ms Mary Van Lieshout, deputy CEO; Ms Mary Keogh, advocacy director with CBM Global Disability Inclusion; and Ms Ana Tenorio, global director for education for World Vision.

They are all very welcome. I thank them again for attending our meeting. The format of this meeting will be in the usual manner. We will hear the opening statements of the witnesses and then take questions from the members, if they so wish. I ask the members to be concise in asking those questions later.

I remind witnesses and members of the long-standing parliamentary practice that they should not criticise or make charges against any person or entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it in any way identifiable or otherwise engage in speech that might be regarded as damaging to the good name of that person or entity. Therefore, if any statements are potentially defamatory in relation to an identifiable person or entity, the speaker will be directed to discontinue his or her remarks. It is imperative that any such direction be complied with.

For witnesses attending remotely, there are some limitations to parliamentary privilege and, as such, they may not benefit from the same level of immunity from legal proceedings as a witness who is physically present. I remind members that they are allowed to participate in this meeting once they are located within the Leinster House complex.

I call Jane-Ann McKenna to deliver her opening statement.

Ms Jane-Ann McKenna

I thank the Leas-Chathaoirleach and the members for the invitation to brief them on progress towards achieving the sustainable development goals, SDGs, and on why 2023 is such a pivotal year for this agenda. In 2015, all UN member states signed up to Agenda 2030, and with that committed to progressing the 17 goals and their 130 underlying targets. Today, the SDGs represent the only universally agreed framework for meeting the needs of all. Indeed, the global goals are deeply interconnected – a lack of progress on one hinders progress on others.

Given our engagement with the committee in the past year on the global food crisis and in particular on the crisis in the Horn of Africa, I am sure the members will not be surprised to hear that at this halfway point towards 2030, many African countries are struggling to meet most SDG targets. The catastrophic levels of food insecurity are decimating many countries' ability to even fathom achieving the SDGs. Without deliberate policies to accelerate progress towards the SDGs by 2030, at least 492 million people will be left in extreme poverty.

Dóchas members and their partners have decades of expertise and experience in not only responding to humanitarian crises, but in supporting communities to build their resilience, address their development needs and realise their rights. For some communities, however, holding onto those development gains is becoming harder and harder. There is an increasing number of crises, escalating humanitarian needs and a lack of adequate funding globally. Aid budgets have become more volatile and stretched amid the crises, compromising investments in long-term development and climate transition. Unsustainable debt levels also continue to cripple government efforts to deliver the SDGs, with 23 out of 50 sub-Saharan African countries considered to be in or at high risk of debt distress.

This year represents a significant opportunity for Ireland to demonstrate its commitment to sustainable development. For the first time in five years, Ireland will present a review of its SDG progress to the United Nations at the high-level political forum in New York. Ireland is also co-hosting the political declaration for the SDGs which will form a core part of the SDG summit in September 2023. Ireland is leading the journey towards the achievement of the goals and has a critical role to play in galvanising energy, optimism and, most importantly, action. As President Biden mentioned in his speech to the Oireachtas last week, Ireland carries "the moral authority with nations around the world". Now, more than ever, we need to use this moral authority. Indeed, in this pivotal year, this Oireachtas joint committee has an opportunity to be a champion for the SDGs and ensure that action for sustainable development leaves no one behind and reaches those the furthest behind first.

Ireland's own policy, A Better World, illustrates our commitment to ensuring our overseas aid will continue to be poverty-focused and 100% untied. However, we do not have a clear framework for action and monitoring mechanism. This should demonstrate pathways for SDG implementation that reach the furthest behind first, plus a commitment to work with partner countries and safeguard civil society space. A roadmap and timeline detailing how Ireland will meet its commitment to contribute 0.7% is overdue and would be a welcome initiative ahead of this year’s SDG summit in September. We will not be able to speak to all 17 SDG goals today, but we will touch on several key areas that we see as being important, especially concerning women, gender equality, people with disabilities and the important role of education.

I am joined by my colleagues who were already introduced by the Leas-Chathaoirleach. Ms Van Lieshout and Dr. Keogh will give the committee an insight into the global progress being made against targets and the impact of humanitarian emergencies in delivering upon ambitions, while Ms Tenorio will provide an overview of how we are progressing on realising the rights of children and young adults to education.

With that in mind, we ask the committee to endorse certain requests. We ask Ireland to live up to the commitment of spending 0.7% of gross national income, GNI, on official development aid spent overseas by 2030 and to develop a roadmap and timeline as to how this will be achieved. If we are to reach the furthest behind - girls and women, people with disabilities, refugees and those who are displaced within their own countries - we must invest in local women-led organisations that can deliver effective community-led solutions. We must also ensure we have data to track this progress because the lack of data, for example on persons with disabilities, makes tracking progress challenging. We ask that Ireland continues to increase its climate finance contributions beyond 2025, including financing the loss and damage fund. We urge the Minister for Finance, Deputy Michael McGrath, and the Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform, Deputy Donohoe, to use their collective influence to push for debt cancellations for sub-Saharan Africa and low-income countries to ease the burden of debt repayments. We ask that Ireland uses its unique role as co-chair of the SDG summit to lead and revitalise global cooperation on the SDGs. This is a significant opportunity for Ireland to communicate its commitment to multilateralism and our shared values of human rights, justice and dignity for all people.

I hand over now to Ms Van Lieshout.

Ms Mary Van Lieshout

I am thankful to have the opportunity to speak to the members. Before I outline the challenges facing us in the context of the SDGs, I remind everyone of the many positive strides made in the fight against global poverty in recent decades. We can be sure that the efforts of this committee and the agencies represented by Dóchas have been part of that success. Between 2015 and 2018, for example, poverty reduction continued its historical decline, with the extreme poverty rate falling from 10.1% to 8.6%. This means the number of people living on less than $1.90 daily fell from almost 750 million to 650 million in those three years. In the last 20 years, gains have also been made in maternal and child health, with the global maternal mortality ratio, MMR, and under-five mortality rate falling by nearly 40% and 60% respectively. Very importantly, the total number of children affected by growth stunting, which is caused by long-term chronic malnutrition, was 27% lower in 2020 than in 2000. This is all important evidence of the value of development co-operation and global leadership, North and South.

All of us in this room need to ensure that as we take on the current challenges, we do not lose sight of or let the public lose confidence in the value of solidarity, partnership and humanitarian action. We all know, however, that the polycrisis elements of Covid-19, climate change and conflict are combining to pose an unprecedented threat to this progress. Covid-19 has wreaked havoc on health systems across the world and an estimated 14 million people have died due to its direct and indirect effects. Additionally, every region across the globe is experiencing weather and climate extremes. If current trends continue, the UN Office for Disaster Risk Reduction projects that medium- to large-scale disasters could reach 560 annually, an average of one-and-a-half per day, by 2030, which is a 40% increase on 2015.

Conflict is also affecting more countries, people and communities than ever before. There are almost 2 billion people now living in conflict-affected countries. The world is today witnessing the largest number of violent conflicts since the Second World War, and a record 100 million people are forcibly displaced worldwide.

As Ms McKenna mentioned, total external debt stacks of lower and middle-income countries rose by 5.3% in 2022 to $8.7 billion. Countries in sub-Saharan Africa have seen the most pronounced deterioration in debt indicators. The ratio of debt to gross national income rose from an average of 23% in 2011 to 44% in 2020 for those countries. The average debt-to-export ratio tripled over the same period.

What does this all mean on the ground for communities for whom GOAL and other agencies work? First, the steady progress on poverty reduction over the past 25 years has been reversed, increasing sharply between 2019 and 2020, from 8.3% to 9.2%. This was the first rise in extreme poverty since 1998 and the largest increase since 1990, erasing more than four years of steady gains. The progress on zero hunger has also been halted. In 2021, 150 million more people faced hunger than in 2019, and 350 million more people lacked regular access to adequate food in 2021 since the beginning of the pandemic. Today, a shocking one in ten people worldwide is suffering from hunger. The progress on good health and well-being, which is sustainable development goal No. 4, is equally negatively impacted as disruptions to health services caused by the pandemic affected maternal and children's health, immunisation rates, mental health programmes, and treatment of diseases such as HIV, hepatitis, TB and malaria. There are 22.7 million children who missed basic vaccines in 2020, which is almost four million more than in 2019.

Tragically, progress on gender equality is simply abysmal. The world is not on track to achieve its goals on gender equality by 2030, and the social and economic fallout from the pandemic has made the situation even bleaker. Progress in many areas, including time spent on unpaid care, domestic work, decision-making regarding sexual and reproductive health, and gender-responsive budgeting, has been eroded. Women's health services, already poorly funded, faced major disruptions. Violence against women remains endemic. Despite women's leadership in responding to Covid-19, they still trail men in securing the decision-making positions they deserve.

Ireland has a really significant opportunity as the co-chair of the sustainable development goals summit to lead and revitalise global co-operation on the sustainable development goals, SDGs. I will make four recommendations in support of this revitalisation effort. First, as part of its globalisation approach, we recommend that Ireland launch a specific fund dedicated to strengthening locally led initiatives in the global south focused on tackling gender-based violence, women's rights and women's health, all of which remain severely underfunded despite global commitments to gender equality. Second, while climate finance provided by developed countries totalled almost $80 billion in 2019, it is actually estimated that what is needed is $1.6 trillion to $3.8 trillion each year through to 2050 for the world to transition to our low-carbon future. Ireland's stated commitment and leadership on climate finance is welcome. We urge the Government to continue to increase its contributions to the global south beyond 2025, including increased financing for the new loss and damage fund.

We also note it is important Ireland closes its own implementation gap between its ambition and its action on climate change. Despite having committed to a 51% reduction in emissions by 2030, the Environmental Protection Agency data show that Ireland's emissions increased by 4.7% in 2021. We urge Ireland to reduce polluting emissions across all sectors and the phasing out of all fossil fuels in accordance with the Paris Agreement commitments and national climate action legislation.

Third, we recommend the end of the catastrophic out-of-pocket health expenditure for resource-poor families. Ireland must deliver on political commitments at the 2023 UN high-level meeting on universal health coverage this September to reinvigorate progress towards delivering health for all, which is significantly off track in achieving its target of coverage for 1 billion additional people by 2030.

Finally, at this week's financing for development forum and at future forums, we urge the Minister for Finance to push for debt cancellation for sub-Saharan African countries rather than ongoing debt rescheduling, and to ensure the International Monetary Fund, IMF, post-Covid austerity measures do not erode local social protection and universal healthcare measures.

We are in unprecedented times. The assumptions of peace, prosperity and partnership that underpinned the original SDG targets have not held, but we know that global solidarity has worked to reduce poverty and inequality. We need to maintain momentum and public confidence in our efforts. The key to getting the sustainable development goals back on track is ambitious, sustained investment and leadership from the global north, and a deeper than ever commitment to partnership with communities and governments in the global south in the face of this daunting complexity.

Ms Jane-Ann McKenna

I thank Ms Van Lieshout. I will now hand over to Dr. Mary Keogh, who is the global director for advocacy for Christian Blind Mission, CBM.

Dr. Mary Keogh

I thank the Chair, Senators, Deputies and colleagues who are here today. I am very pleased to be sitting alongside my colleagues from Dóchas for this presentation. I am here today to talk about how Ireland can strengthen its approach to reaching the aims that are furthest behind. I will focus my input on how Ireland can strengthen its commitment by ensuring its development programmes continue to make strides on the inclusion of persons with disabilities, who are very often the group most left behind, both in a development and humanitarian context.

Similar to Ms Van Lieshout, before I speak to some practical actions on this, I will comment briefly that the adoption of the 2030 agenda and the sustainable development goals was a landmark moment for people with disabilities and their representative organisations. The predecessor to the sustainable development goals, which were the millennium development goals, had no goal or indicator related to persons with disabilities because, at that stage, disability itself was not seen as development theme. This ended up having outright impacts and effects on persons with disabilities and the disability thematic sector, policies and programmes in a development context. The sustainable development goals, however, marked a sea change in this, with the inclusion of persons with disabilities now at the heart of the 2030 agenda, with the request and central commitment not to leave anyone behind until we reached the furthest behind first.

Without going into all of the development goals, as outlined earlier by Ms Van Lieshout, I will just highlight that five of the 17 development goals are relevant from a disability perspective. These range across SDG 4, quality education; SDG 8, decent work and economic growth; SDG 10, reduced inequalities; SDG 11, sustainable cities and communities; and SDG 17, partnerships for the goals. The SDGs, along with the specific targets and indicators, coupled with the Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities, creates a new era for disability-inclusive development, which has seen wider progress over recent years.

That is the positive side. I shall now turn to the more critical side. As Ms Van Lieshout and Ms McKenna outlined, we are at crisis point regarding a number of conflicting polycrises. As Ireland prepares for its review this July at the high-level political forum, and with the upcoming SDG summit in September, it does so against this challenging backdrop which has been elaborated on by previous speakers. All of this is relevant for persons with disabilities as well.

Before I speak to the key area of data, I will highlight some of the key impacts the new crises have had on people with disabilities, particularly coming from the Covid period, the impact of Covid, and how we have seen this impact on the communities of persons with disabilities and their families in the countries we work in. Research we funded in 2020 and 2021, led by researchers with disabilities, highlighted the major barriers faced in accessing services during the time of the pandemic.

With respect to the SDG around education and employment, our researchers found through their work that digital technology and the way it has transitioned over the last number of years presented significant barriers. Persons with disabilities in the global south have particular difficulty with access to services and devices and to literally be able to use the devices everybody has in their hands regularly. There is a lack of access to fast Internet connections to download the most up-to-date information. There is also the matter of the financial means needed to purchase the data packages. While a person may have an accessible phone, there are challenges around being able to access data packages because a majority of persons with disabilities living in the global south live in poverty.

Ms Van Lieshout spoke about the climate crisis. Research we recently carried out in Madagascar and Bangladesh with organisations for persons with disabilities on the impact of the climate crisis has highlighted how the livelihoods of persons with disabilities and those of their family networks are all negatively impacted. Despite this, persons with disabilities and their representative organisations have no space to contribute to the national adaptation planning processes. Research that was carried out in 2021 found a minimal amount of climate adaptation plans at a national level included persons with disabilities. We shared this research most recently at COP27 to highlight disability as a critical issue from a climate crisis perspective.

As to the progress made, it is quite difficult to talk about progress on each SDG with respect to persons with disabilities because data remain a critical issue. Data on persons with disabilities are lacking behind those of other groups with regard to the monitoring of the sustainable development goals. Out of ten SDG indicators that require disaggregation by disability status, only two have data so far. This was emphasised in the SDG report in 2022. Lack of data in these situations can create dire consequences for persons with disabilities and this was the case during the Covid pandemic. Disability data are available for social protection goal 1 and unemployment goal 8. If persons with disabilities are not being measured as part of SDG progress, then gaps continue for them with respect to SDG implementation. Progress on the goals worsened due to the Covid pandemic, and we spoke to that just before. This has also adversely affected persons with disabilities as a group and has continued to compound their being left behind and left out.

I will outline some practical actions Ireland can take in the lead-up to the high-level political forum and to the summit that will happen in September. We urge the Government and other member states to work with organisations for persons with disabilities at home, such as Independent Living Movement Ireland, and at a global level with organisations such as the International Disability Alliance. All these organisations are able to bring their expertise to help us reach those furthest behind. Organisations of persons with disabilities are experts in their own lives. The second recommendation is to provide consistent reports on the development assistance committee, DAC, disability marker to highlight where funding flows in disability and inclusion go to and to be able to drill down further to check how much of that funding is being allocated to organisations of persons with disabilities in the global south. The third and last recommendation is to encourage other member states to take a coherent approach to collecting data on persons with disabilities. Ireland has been cited as a good example for using the Washington Group questions and carrying out a specific national disability survey. This could be championed as part of our development programme both domestically and through international co-operation. I thank members for their attention.

Ms Jane-Ann McKenna

I will hand over to Ms Tenorio, who is joining us virtually.

Ms Ana Tenorio

It is an honour to speak with the distinguished Deputies and Senators on a topic as critical to the well-being of children and adults around the world as education. Education is a fundamental right and an essential foundation for prosperity and peace. The SDGs and all our aspirations for an equitable global society cannot be achieved without inclusive and equitable education, especially for those furthest behind.

I am so hopeful about Ireland leading as co-chair, because Ireland is an example of how prioritising investment in education can ignite transformational change. I am Honduran, but I am fortunate to be married to an Irishman from the Curragh in Kildare. My husband's father was an exemplary hardworking farmer who could only complete primary education, but thanks to the Irish Government's progressive policies in education, his son was able to complete a master's in rural development. What a big leap in just a generation. This is the kind of commitment and leadership in education Ireland can bring to the world and the SDGs. Ireland's leadership is greatly needed because global progress towards realising children and young adults' right to education is suffering unprecedented setbacks.

Other speakers have mentioned Covid-19. We think it is passed, but the consequences remain. Climate-induced disasters and increased crises experienced across the world threaten to undo decades of progress. We were experiencing a global learning crisis before Covid. In 2019, the learning poverty rate in low- or middle-income countries was already 57%. In other words, six out of ten children could not read and understand a basic text at the age of ten years. In sub-Saharan Africa, the rate was even higher, at 86%. This is nearly nine out of ten children unable to read a text at the age of ten years. The World Bank now estimates the learning poverty rate may have risen to 70% in 2022. Based on these estimates, all the gains in learning poverty achieved since 2000 have likely been lost. UNESCO stated we face a generational catastrophe if we do not increase investment and global action to ensure children who are furthest behind realise their right to education. Let us take a moment to reflect on what is happening in Afghanistan, where over a year has passed since Taliban authorities banned girls from secondary school. Hundreds of thousands of teenage girls remain barred from attending classes. In nations affected by conflict and crisis, girls are more than twice as likely to be out of school than boys. In South Sudan, where World Vision is implementing Irish Aid-funded education programmes, climate-induced flooding is resulting in school closure and increasing the risk of girls being kept away from education and prosperity.

The committee knows these realties well, so how can we change this trajectory and return to positive progress towards the SDGs? We suggest three practical actions. As my fellow speakers highlighted, we must reach those furthest behind first. These include girls, children with disabilities, refugees, internally-displaced persons and the youngest of children. These children are most at risk of dropping out or not being able to access education. This is why increasing investment in formal and non-formal education that meets the needs of the furthest behind is fundamental to increasing learning equity. This would include catch-up, bridging and accelerated education programmes to get out-of-school children back on track and on an equal footing with their classmates upon entry into school. Investment in early childhood development and preschool programmes have also been neglected, despite the evidence, the fulfilment and the lifetime-equalising effects of early interventions for most vulnerable children. We fully endorsed a request to ensure promotion of local and community-led programmes that are better positioned and informed to reach children who are furthest behind. We also need to promote laws, like the one changed recently in Zimbabwe, to ensure girls and adolescent mothers are not expelled and can continue their education, as is their right.

Second, we have to recognise education as a lifesaving intervention. When emergencies and crises hit leaders and decision-makers are faced with an overwhelming number of competing needs that can often obscure the lifesaving nature of education. Attention and budgets are typically consumed by what are traditionally considered lifesaving needs without realising the interrelated role that education plays in meeting these needs and also re-establishing stability and protection. Education, including early childhood development interventions, must be prioritised in all emergency and humanitarian planning and responses. Likewise, sector risk reduction and emergency preparedness must be included in all education sector planning to ensure the sector is crisis resilient.

Finally, the education SDGs cannot be achieved without financing. This requires sufficient development assistance, for example, meeting the 0.7% gross national income target. Furthermore, countries should implement the internationally agreed minimum benchmark of 15% of GDP investment in education. In 2022, the Global Education Monitoring Report from UNESCO revealed that one in three countries is investing less than 4% of GDP on education.

The global challenges we face are great. At World Vision, we see the challenges before us and thank Ireland for its leadership in championing a better world. Ireland exemplifies what a relatively small country, but one with a big heart and ideals, can do to transform the world. We expect great things from Ireland's role as co-chair and stand ready to support its efforts.

Ms Jane-Ann McKenna

I thank Ms Tenorio very much.

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

I thank all the witnesses for their contributions and the level of detail included. They reminded us, in no small way, of the expectations and commitments they share and the impact we have seen in recent years of Covid, climate change and war, not alone in Ukraine but in many other parts of the world also. We acknowledge the recommendations and asks of the committee with respect to the central role we have in informing Government policy. Thereafter, the Government, as part of many other forums, can implement our wishes, desires and commitments. Members may now ask questions.

I thank the witnesses for their presentations. The Leas-Chathaoirleach summed up the view of the committee but we must go through it in more detail.

I will first say something that is relevant but not strictly related to what has been said before coming back to the specific points raised. There has been some media focus on the very isolated and disgraceful objections to immigrants displaced from Ukraine, Syria and Africa. There have been disgraceful incidents but what has been missed in all of this is that the vast majority of Irish people, through their silence and activity, are on the other side. That merits pointing out. There is a great generosity in supporting the Third World. There is always a political acceptance that it is our duty to increase aid to the Third World. We should be very proud of our people in this area and perhaps put a focus on the positive because there has been a good deal of media attention on some people who in no way reflect Ireland or its people.

I will put a couple of questions to the witnesses. Unsustainable debt levels continue to cripple government efforts and damage the prospects of delivering on the SDGs. Have any well argued academic or practical studies been done on the implications of removing that debt from a western point of view? I refer to the spin-off improvement in economies and where that might balance up. In other words, has a cogent case been developed yet for eliminating that debt and writing it off? Where are the blockages in the developed world? What are the solutions to those blockages in terms of what it would mean to remove the debt? How would the witnesses see it transforming society in Third World countries? Obviously, that should have ramifications for the entire world. If it has not been done, it needs to be done.

It has been identified that Ireland will have a key position in September. As a committee we must be conscious of that and keep the pressure on so that the Irish input will be very positive and provide leadership. One assumes that will be the case. Could the witnesses comment more specifically on what we should seek the Government to say and do there in a very narrow, specific sense? We will have the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs before the committee at some point. What should we say to him in that regard?

The roadmap and timeline detailing how Ireland will meet its commitment to the 0.7% of GDP target is overdue. I agree with what has been said by the witnesses about that. I think that should be the case. The committee should request from the Government that the position be made clear. I know there are variables but, even at that, it should be a pattern. I accept the commitment is genuine. As I said, there is buy-in from the public. Nobody I represent or have any dealings with has ever said they do not want us to support the Third World or for the Government to vote aid to it. Thank God, I have yet to meet such a person. The witnesses might elaborate on that.

Afghanistan is a horror on so many levels and nobody in this room needs me to reinforce that. As such, I do not propose to do so. What in God’s name could we do about Afghanistan? How could pressure be exerted there? Do the witnesses see channels in which we could move because it is one of the great aberrations. It is not even medieval. It is unfair to medieval society to describe it in that way. It is beyond acceptable. Do the witnesses just state the problem or do they see solutions there? Those are the issues.

I thank all the witnesses for their presentations. I will first focus on the contribution of Ms McKenna. When we have witnesses before a committee we always try to find how we can help them and further the causes we are all trying to pursue together. You might be able to assist in the matter, a Leas-Chathaoirligh. One of the big asks is to make representations to the finance Ministers regarding our contributions and the debt. I do not know if it would be appropriate to invite them to appear before the committee at some stage. We could make a case for doing so and perhaps consider the matter in private session. As my colleague said, we are all singing from the same hymn sheet and we all have the same aspirations, as have our constituents. We are all very proud of our record.

Regarding Dr. Keogh's contribution, I think this is one of the first times we have had a proper contribution from a disability perspective. That is most welcome. I thank her very much for coming in to give that perspective because it is often lost.

We constantly hear how women and young girls are disproportionately affected by conflict, war and climate change. Therefore, it is really important for us to concentrate on helping women and young girls but we must not forget how people with disabilities are also affected.

The roll-out of broadband has been mentioned. We have all heard that Elon Musk's Starlink programme has played a huge role in rolling out broadband when it ceased due to the onset of the war in Ukraine. I am interested in hearing about what we can do on a larger level to progress the roll-out of broadband. I am sure there is a special group on broadband roll-out in sub-Saharan Africa.

On education, without doubt Ireland is as good as it is because of its free education system. It was great to hear Ms Tenorio say that we take for granted the improved access to education. Our parents might not have had third level education but we now all have access to third level education. We take that situation for granted but every family in this country has benefited. Increased access to education was something that had to be thought of in places like Leinster House, where politicians discussed whether to introduce free education for all. Ultimately, a policy decision was made in the Oireachtas years ago that gave us the authority to thrive. I always think that the most important policy measure is probably the ability of women, girls and men, and people with disabilities of all ages, to access third level education.

Ms Tenorio mentioned the stark statistic that the literacy rate has decreased in sub-Saharan Africa. Was the decrease purely the result of Covid? Ireland is a First World country and we closed our schools during the Covid pandemic so one can only imagine the damage that was done to education progression in Third World countries.

Finally, I thank both delegations for attending and I enjoyed their presentations.

I welcome our guests and thank them for their presentations. I ask Ms Tenorio to comment on the violent situation in Sudan, which has worsened over the last couple of weeks, and the impact that situation has had and is having on the people there. I ask her to outline the reports received from people on the ground there. An Irish diplomat was attacked in Sudan and I hope he is okay. With respect to the SDGs, what is the current situation in Somalia and Ethiopia?

It is good to see Ms Van Lieshout again. I agree with Senator Ardagh that we should focus more on disability issues. Perhaps Ms Van Lieshout can comment on the issue of mines, which cause a lot of disabilities. People have disabilities because of being born with them or suffering injuries. War causes terrible disabilities and suffering in many parts of the world at the moment. I have listed some of the places. If I listed them all, the list would be as long as your arm. It strikes me that a lot of the work we want to do, especially in education, demands that an area be peaceful so that our workers and others can go in there.

I was taken with a book I read a number of years ago called The Promise of a Pencil by Mr. Adam Braun. He wrote his book because when he was in India he asked a little boy "What do you want most in the world?" to which the reply was, "A pencil". An organisation, Pencils of Promise, was established and has done a lot of work, particularly in South America, in the last number of years to educate people. However, the circumstances must be correct to make all that happen. It is very hard to improve things if there is war, as we can see from what is happening in Sudan.

I am interested in discussing a British consulate scheme which involves schools in the UK acting as partners to schools in developing countries. There are issues at times with the inequality of relationships. Do our guests believe a school partnership scheme is a mechanism that can be used to engage people? We talk about the Government doing so much here and it must do so. There are very important things coming up with the SDGs this year at the UN and so on. We must focus on those initiatives. I suggest that we, as a committee, invite the Minister and Department officials in here to discuss ways to work on the SDGs. However, I think we need to go further. I am taken with the idea of partnerships between schools here and schools in underdeveloped countries. We can work on introducing school partnerships while bearing in mind the need to ensure there is equality. I would like to hear the views and experiences of our guests concerning this matter.

We can go on with all the other goals with respect to the rights of women and girls, in particular, which are extremely important. Women and girls suffer the most in many places, especially where climate change, war and inequality are concerned, and are often subjected to sexual violence and all that goes with that. Without peace, in a war situation it is very hard to work on a lot of these goals. My colleagues have spoken about Afghanistan and different areas where there is violence. Iran is another area about which we are concerned because girls and women there are not treated as well as they should be.

We could discuss these issues all day. I thank the delegations for the work they do and for assisting the people they represent on the ground at the face of this who often risk their lives to work in very difficult situations.

I am curious about the big geopolitical shift away from the old powerhouses of, say, France in Mali and Burkina Faso and the big shift to a new generation in terms of China and Russia and the money they have rolled out throughout Africa. I am curious to learn about what China and Russia are doing in these areas because we do not tend to hear that much about them. Are China and Russia interested in educating people? Apart from infrastructure and the resources that these two countries have pumped into governments and whatever else, I am curious to hear about what is happening in the region. Heretofore, the old regimes provided a certain number of educational programmes and whatever else but we have not heard about China and Russia doing much of that. How do they view education? Are they trying to educate these people up? Is education on their radar at all?

Our guests will have got a great flavour of where members are coming from with their specific questions. Members have an understanding or belief that it is incumbent on us to prepare wisely for the summit in September and to work with our partners in government, and specifically the relevant Departments, whether that is the Department of Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform or the Department of Foreign Affairs. We must do that to be in a position to ensure that the right buttons are pressed by the nation in terms of its contribution and its pivotal role regarding its co-chairing responsibilities. Perhaps our guests will respond to the points raised and references made. Any indications or indicators that they can give us towards our preparation is welcome.

Ms Jane-Ann McKenna

My colleagues and I will try to address the questions. I ask the Chair to remind me if we miss something.

On the point made by Senator Joe O'Reilly, there is a significant amount of support for ODA in Ireland. We know from recent research that 74% of people feel that Ireland's commitment to ODA is very important. There is a very strong level of support, which many of my colleagues will verify in terms of the level of support that we receive from donors. There is also a great deal of public support for our civil society organisations and our efforts in terms of overseas aid.

On the SDG summit in September, we would like to see Ireland put together its own pathway for SDG implementation. That is a vital part of the preparation we must do ourselves. We want to see, within that, how Ireland will reach the people who are furthest behind. That will give us a strong standpoint to go for in terms of advocating for the commitments to be upheld for women, girls, people with disabilities and those who are furthest behind.

One of the key roles to play with regard to the geopolitical shifts and changes is around ensuring not only that we retain the commitment to the SDGs at this political declaration in September, but also that the underlying principles with regard to human rights and the respect of dignity for all are protected, that we retain the key principles that were agreed and that we put key moments into action as to how we are going to work together on this.

I will hand over to Ms Van Lieshout to say a little on the question of debt. There have been areas in which reducing the debt burden has perhaps had a positive impact. She might also speak to her experience in ensuring local organisations can accept funding through civil society organisations, which is key to navigating access in very difficult circumstances. For example, in Afghanistan and Sudan today we see the vital importance of civil society organisations that have that level of proximity to the local communities.

Ms Mary Van Lieshout

I thank the members for their questions. On the debt rescheduling, which is often the most traditional response from the global north to global southern debt, what we are arguing for is an open renegotiation and cancellation of that debt. I cannot speak to the question of what we know about the impact of such cancellation. A number of Dóchas members have done some research in this area, Oxfam in particular. We can certainly bring that to the committee's attention.

We know that rescheduling is not addressing the problem and that the conditions usually attached to the Bretton Woods institutions - by the IMF, in particular - often include public cutbacks. We know the story. We have had it here in terms of public cutbacks in essential services and fees right at the point of entry for schools and health services. All of those are extremely detrimental. Cutbacks in social protection measures are extremely detrimental to the lives of low-resource families and communities. We know that the traditional methods will not work in this crisis. We need to respond to the tripling of these debt ratios over the Covid period. We can bring some of that back to the committee, particularly as it prepares to meet the Minister for Finance prior to the SDG summit. We can certainly bring to the committee some concrete examples on the ground.

I thank Deputy Stanton for his question on Sudan. We understand the issue in Sudan has risen over the past weeks. GOAL has been working in Sudan since 1985. We have approximately 260 staff there. We have regular reports and regular contact with our staff many times each day since the fighting has broken out. Some of the members will have heard and understood through the news that it looks like approximately 2,000 people have been injured and 200 have died. There is huge heavy fighting and threats to civilian safety at this stage. I understand from our security briefings that things are likely to resolve in Khartoum but continue in the rural areas. It is not located only in Khartoum. The airports have been closed. They could have opened even in the past hours but airports have been closed. Fighting is happening and civilians and our staff, and indeed staff of other humanitarian agencies, are all in lockdown at this stage. It is a very important and sad development for the people of Sudan. It is a poor part of the world. As the committee knows so very well, all of east Africa is facing chronic food shortages. Any kind of conflict that disrupts livelihoods is just a further exacerbation in the lives of families and communities. This is a story that is going to stay with us because it does not look like there is an easy solution to this. We can certainly keep the committee apprised on that, however.

Ms Jane-Ann McKenna

I thank Ms Van Lieshout. Dr. Keogh might speak to Senator Ardagh's comments regarding disability.

Dr. Mary Keogh

I thank the Senator very much for her comments. Disability has been an invisible thematic area for development for a long period of time. As I said, however, the SDGs opened up the opportunity for creating visibility of the constituencies of persons with disabilities, particularly in the global south. In the upcoming summit, Ireland will play a key role in thinking through how persons with disabilities and their representative organisations can be part of that and how to reach out to organisations to hear the experiences of people on the ground. Much of the time, it can be through second-hand experience. For example, the organisation I work with is not an organisation representing persons with disabilities. It is an NGO that works with persons with disabilities as partners. It is really critical in respect of persons with disabilities and other community groups that our Government has a good approach to listening to the voices that are not generally heard. It is about trying to apply that as part of the process in the lead-up to the summit, which would be really critical. It is also about trying to highlight the connectivity of disability to climate change and war, to pick up on Deputy Stanton's comment. We have had the UN special rapporteur based here in Ireland. He is an Irishman. He has just published a number of reports, which are related, around the whole area of conflict and its impact on persons with disabilities and how conflict can create a cycle around disability. Last year, with Ireland within the Security Council, we had a very open dialogue with the Irish UN representatives in New York and the Security Council members around thinking about this whole area of civil protection and peacebuilding and how persons with disabilities can be part of that. We need to move away from thinking around disability from a charity perspective and purely from a needs-based perspective. Needs are critical, obviously, but it is really about starting to think about it sitting more into foreign policy. Persons with disabilities in Ireland are interested in foreign policy. Foreign policy impacts on persons with disabilities in the global south. We need to start making these connections in terms of how we do our work with the SDGs.

Ms Jane-Ann McKenna

I will hand over to Ms Tenorio to speak to a question from Deputy Stanton relating to partnerships in education and the impact they can have, and whether that is something that has worked well in many of World Vision's partner countries.

Ms Ana Tenorio

I thank Deputy Stanton for that question. I want to affirm Ireland's moral authority in advocating for education as a pillar for development. I understand that many other factors come into the equation but education is foundational for any prosperity to really take hold. In as much as Ireland made a valiant decision and commitment to education, there are other countries like South Korea that had a similar impact when they made a decision to invest in education for prosperity and economic growth. We have an aspiration for many countries in the world that those commitments are made, understanding that they might be long-term investments. Some of those investments take time to take hold but they are sustainable, especially when we are investing in the youngest children. Many times, those investments are not done because of the short cycles and expectations of prosperity when we know that sometimes prosperity takes time to build.

Covid-19 absolutely had a detrimental effect across all SDGs. My fellow speakers have eloquently shared some of those perspectives. That is not the only crisis. It is the multiple crises that have hit the world in unprecedented ways that have really eroded much of the progress we had made, not only in education but in other areas of importance for development. It is because of this that we need to be very creative and very decisive in how we partner with countries in the global south as partners. We must understand that while many solutions need to be national and driven by policy, and the SDGs go from the global to the national, we cannot forget the local aspect, especially in terms of crisis when governance may be weaker and, therefore, the only people who are best placed to support the first behind are on the ground closer to communities, such as local civil societies and organisations. Partnering with many others who are in support of their own goals and empowerment is critical.

One agenda that it is important that we align to, in preparation for the SDGs, is that Transforming Education Summit. There must be a recognition of the fact that we have made a lot of progress in education, but now the situation is different and, therefore, we need to consider solutions that are more flexible and that are really catered to reach the children that may be outside of the formal system. While we still need to strengthen formal systems, we need to go beyond them and find other pathways for children to learn. That requires the commitment and investment that we discussed at the beginning, which Ireland can exemplify in its history.

I also want to address the question of investments. It may be a bit of a controversial question in terms of Russian and Chinese influences and their investments in education. I do not have any concrete information on their investments in sub-Saharan Africa. I think I mentioned that I am from Honduras. There has also been a strong presence in Latin America and Central America, specifically from China and other foreign countries. Most of the investments have been in infrastructure. It is more dependent on the needs or the articulation from national governments on where that investment is directed. It is important that all multilateral countries are aligned in human development. I would encourage lining up this dialogue so that we are looking at development holistically. While I am advocating for education here, it is really about holistic support. That is transversal across what we discussed in respect of girls and children with disabilities, and ensuring that we are looking at those different lenses of the furthest behind. However, it does require commitment and long-term commitment. While we can look at addressing crises in the short term, we also need to look at how we are building more resilient societies.

I apologise for missing the initial part of the witnesses' contributions. I found Dr. Keogh's insight into the issues faced by people with disabilities to be very worthwhile. Many colleagues have asked a range of questions, but I am keen to tease out the issue of the developmental side of international aid, in respect of working to empower people, developing their agency and dignity and basically getting people around the table where that is required. I am just wondering, as global aid evolves and changes to meet the needs of communities around the world as the world changes, whether lessons can be learned from other countries. There are the issues of aid, and that will always be the case and that will be specific to the needs of people right across the board, no matter what their needs happen to be. How are we doing where this issue of ensuring that people are empowered and that their agency is empowered and developed is concerned, and what more can be done from a practical, best practice-sharing point of view to ensure that Ireland is leading the way in ensuring that that is the case, if we are not already? The witnesses might tell us that we are doing that already.

Dr. Mary Keogh

My colleagues might want to respond. I think that what the Senator is speaking to is the whole localisation empowerment shift in terms of how development funding actually gets drilled down into communities, and how communities are able to have choice about how they work with that funding. We are all sitting here with our INGO hats on us, and in many spaces we are sitting in those countries sometimes, potentially even blocking some of that funding from actually going to communities - not purposefully, but just because of the way the systems have been set up. I can speak from the CBM Global perspective. We are on a very early journey with localisation. Ms Van Lieshout and Ms McKenna can probably speak a bit more to the issue in terms of examples. It is true that the dignity and empowerment piece is critical to us. As an organisation, two years ago, we did a listening exercise with all of our partners that we work with that are organisations of persons with disabilities. Basically, we said we wanted to hear how we were doing and where we were doing well. We also really wanted to hear how we were not doing well and what we could do to strengthen it. That, in itself, was a power dynamic question that we were asking, because we were asking it of people who were receiving funding or working in partnership with us. We had to be mindful of that. It was very open and honest dialogue. I am happy to share that listening exercise with the committee. We heard our partner organisations saying to us that sometimes the structures that we put in place in terms of giving funding can actually be barriers to them to get access to funding. It really made us think through how we do our work. It is not something that can be fixed overnight. It is a capacity-building piece to work with the organisations that we work with to build capacity. As an organisation and a federation, that is what our critical aim is. Organisations of persons with disabilities in the global south are at the heart of what we do, and how we work with them how we build those relationships and also build sustainable and work in partnership in that way. I can share the listening exercise with the committee. It is not a very long detailed document, but it might give members an insight into that empowerment piece that happens at local level. I might hand over to Ms Van Lieshout and Ms McKenna.

Ms Jane-Ann McKenna

I will refer to Ms Van Lieshout in a moment to speak from GOAL's experience. Generally, as a sector, we are very much focused on shifting a lot of the power towards local organisations, and how we can do that on a long-term basis. As Dr. Keogh said, it requires a significant shift not just in how organisations work, but also in how donors work and how we can ensure that funding gets to those local organisations to ensure that they have the power to actually make and inform those decisions. It is striking that such a small percentage of overall funding goes to women-led organisations, for example. We know that women are very much at the heart of the community. They understand the needs of those who are typically the most vulnerable or most at risk, particularly children. I think it is about ensuring how we can create that space and ensure that we are supporting organisations that are very much carrying out the work that we would like to see, carrying out what we would like to achieve with the sustainable development goals, and seeing how we can enable and empower them. Perhaps Ms Van Lieshout can speak to some of her partners' experience.

Ms Mary Van Lieshout

I thank the Senator for the question. We all know that the big answer to the question is that sustainable development and the real, long-term end of poverty is going to be in the hands of the people in the countries in which we are currently working. It is going to be a coalition of government, civil society and private sector organisations. It was always the assumption behind the sustainable development goals that it would take partnerships across society as well as global solidarity. The big answer is that we have to help and empower civil society to take the solutions and to craft the solutions, and to support them in enabling those solutions. That is the ultimate role of our agencies. We are not going to make this happen. There has been huge disappointment that with these polycrises that we have all been talking about, there has been such an erosion in capacity in many societies, including during the lockdown. A lot of people talk about how civil society spaces have actually shrunk in the past ten years. I was at the UN conference on women and development in Beijing in 1995. Many participants in that conference say that we could not even get the text of the Beijing Declaration and Platform for Action through international discussions today, such is the growth of antipathy towards feminism and equality globally. There is a real issue of how we can ensure that civil society actors are protected, supported and promoted, and that human rights remains a cornerstone of our relationship globally. The solution is not short-term in terms of the crises that we are facing. The cost-of-living crisis is just one more crisis that we are now facing. It is known to be the solution, but that solution is going to take a lot of solidarity in these coming years. There is no doubt about it.

Ms Ana Tenorio

May I speak from our perspective on that question?

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

You can, of course.

Ms Ana Tenorio

I agree that empowerment is absolutely the long-term goal. Perhaps there is an erosion of civil society engagement because of the crises that we are facing.

However, when the Covid pandemic happened we saw how communities and parents rose to the challenge in the role they could play in supporting their children's education. While we do not wish for parents and communities to replace the formal system and everything that needs to happen there, we also need to recognise they are agents of change if there is an enabling environment and a policy environment that is given space. Education and many such systems are not just formal. They need to be open systems that encourage this engagement and empowerment beyond local civil society organisations. It is about citizenship engagement and how we can promote that through smart policies. I do see potential. Covid brought many terrible things but we did see communities rise to the challenge when their kids were not able to access formal schools.

Thank you very much. On behalf of the members of the committee, I thank the witnesses for making themselves available, for their presentations and for their comprehensive answers.

May I ask a question?

Yes. We have covered nearly everything at this stage, but go ahead. Bear in mind we have other business to attend to as well.

If it is agreeable with the Chair, I will just ask questions, and if the witnesses have responded to them already, they should just say so and I will move on. To Ms Van Lieshout from GOAL, I express sympathy following the tragedy of losing 31 people in Syria and Türkiye during the recent earthquake.

I understand Ms Keogh is fairly new to her role so I congratulate her on that. The work going on in the Great Lakes region was mentioned by Ms McKenna in her opening remarks. Will Ms Keogh elaborate on the type of work that is currently being done there?

Is that the Deputy's contribution?

Yes, if I could have a response to that question.

We are pressed for time, so if the Deputy wants to continue with his other questions, we will see if we can fit them in.

In her opening remarks, Ms McKenna referenced the increasing number of crises, escalating humanitarian needs and lack of adequate funding globally. There was reference to the fact the SDGs are on a downward trajectory in contrast to what were very positive developments over a number of years. Where is the cause of the downward trajectory coming from and what can be done at the individual state level to try to address it?

It was also mentioned that Ireland carries the moral authority with nations around the world, which I think was a paraphrasing of President Biden from last week. From the witnesses' perspective, where does that moral authority come from? Clearly, we have been doing something right over the years. What has that been? Is there a chance we are now doing things that could potentially undermine that?

Will any of the witnesses' constituent organisations comment on a development that came as a surprise to Members of the Houses last year when the then Minister of State announced the rebranding of Irish Aid? It was reported at the time that it was an attempt to remove negative connotations for recipient countries. Did any consultation take place with any of the witnesses' organisations? Have the witnesses any views on that and would they have been aware of the negative connotations? To many of us, Irish Aid was perceived to have a very positive brand image, but what was the sense that that was not actually the case?

I think the witness dealt comprehensively with that issue in response to Senator O'Reilly earlier. Some questions about SDGs have been dealt with, but there are one or two other questions the witness might respond to.

Ms Jane-Ann McKenna

There are one or two that I will briefly touch on, but of course I can furnish the Deputy with further details as well. Regarding the Great Lakes, as far as I am aware, neither of my colleagues works there but a number of our members do, so I can provide the Deputy with information following the session today.

On the funding issue, as Ms Van Lieshout mentioned, a significant number of crises have happened and, on a global level, funding streams are being diverted. The knock-on impact is often with regard to investment in sustainable development and investment in key areas such as education, empowerment of local communities, and trying to reach the furthest behind first in a more sustained and long-term way. Ireland has always protected its humanitarian and development budgets, which is very welcome. We have not seen that displacement and we are increasing our aid budget, but we are not on track to reach 0.7% of GDP by 2030. That is why we are asking for a roadmap with regard to that to see how Ireland will be able to reach the target we have committed to.

When it comes to the point about moral authority, we saw very clearly Ireland's leadership during the UN Security Council. One of Ireland's final actions was the agreement on the humanitarian carve-outs. That has had significant impact for our organisations working on the ground. There was a comment earlier on Afghanistan. A very practical way to create space and to be able to reach people in the most difficult circumstances is around some of those policy areas where Ireland has traction and can broker this kind of progress. This is what we are hoping to see at the SDG summit this year. We are very proud and it is a huge opportunity that Ireland is co-hosting the political declaration. It will be challenging and I think I can say, not only for my colleagues here but for all Dóchas members, that we stand ready to support the Government with regard to any particular SDGs and with regard to any information, expertise or support we can give to make the political declaration a reality.

Thank you. As I said earlier, on behalf of the committee I thank the witnesses for making themselves available, for their presentations and for the comprehensive manner in which they have responded to the various queries of the members. I thank them for the inference of help and assistance that is forthcoming as we prepare for the summit among other items and the possibility of us talking to the relevant Ministers in relation to funding issues. I thank them again. We look forward to meeting them again in the future.

The joint committee went into private session at 4.38 p.m. and adjourned at 4.45. p.m. until 3.15 p.m. on Tuesday, 9 May 2023.
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