Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade debate -
Wednesday, 24 Oct 2012

Gender Equality: Discussion

Chairman

I am delighted to welcome Ms Saraswathi Menon, director of policy, UN Women, an entity established in 2010. I am also delighted to welcome Ms Lilian Looloitai, director, Community Research and Development Services, CORDS, a voluntary organisation concerned with the development needs of the pastoral communities in northern Tanzania; our good friend, Mr. Jim Clarken, chief executive officer, Oxfam Ireland; and Dr. Nata Duvvury, co-ordinator of global women’s studies and the MA in gender globalisation and development at NUI Galway.

Gender equality is a fundamental human right and essential to effective poverty reduction. Advancing the empowerment and equality of women is fundamental to the elimination of gender inequalities in access to, control of and the benefit of resources and services. Irish Aid, the Government’s overseas development programme, has placed a strong emphasis on the need to advance equal rights for men and women and actively supported work in our partner countries to combat gender-based violence, improve maternal and reproductive health services, prioritise the nutritional needs of pregnant women and infants, increase access by girls and women to education and assist women affected by or living with HIV-AIDS. Irish Aid supports local protection programmes in some of our partner countries which are actively directed towards women in vulnerable circumstances, increasing participation by women in politics and women’s access to and control over agricultural resources and services.

Last August, with Mr. Jim Wells, MLA, and Mr. Jim Clarken, I visited northern Tanzania to see at first hand the work being done by our non-governmental organisations. I am delighted we met two of our guests today there. We were given a great insight in the work being done to overcome the obstacles, the culture and the difficulties women encountered in African societies. Only last week a delegation from this committee visited Sierra Leone to review the delivery of the Irish Aid programme there. We were struck by the immense challenges faced by women. For example, gender-based violence is a serious problem.

Maternal and child mortality rates are extremely high. Education levels for women and men are poor. I believe from visiting Tanzania and Sierra Leone that education will play a key role in developing gender equality. The delegation was also impressed by the delivery of the Irish Aid programme in Sierra Leone and what can be achieved through the careful targeting of resources at gender equality and women's empowerment. Resources were focused on schools feeding programmes, infant nutrition, maternal and reproductive health and support for victims of sexual assault. The delegation was also pleased to see the strong involvement of women in decision-making processes and co-operative agricultural projects.

If this kind of work is to be strengthened and embedded, we must maintain our focus. The supports that a single international gender entity such as UN Woman and organisations such as CORDS and Oxfam can provide are essential in ensuring the actualisation on the ground of the principle of equality. I am delighted to welcome some of the people who were involved in our trip to Tanzania, where we saw at first hand the plight of the Masai people.

Before inviting the witnesses to make their presentations, I wish to advise they that they are protected by absolute privilege in respect of utterances at this committee. However, if they are directed by the committee to cease making remarks on a particular matter and they continue to do so, they are entitled thereafter only to qualified privilege in respect of their remarks. They are directed that only comments and evidence relating to the subject matter of this meeting are to be given, and they are asked to respect the parliamentary practice to the effect that, where possible, they should not criticise or make charges against a Member of either House of the Oireachtas, a person outside the Houses or an official by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable. I invite Ms Saraswathi Menon to address the committee.

Ms Saraswathi Menon

It is a great honour to address the committee on behalf of UN Women. The full name of my organisation is the United Nations Entity for Gender Equality and Women’s Empowerment. I am grateful to Oxfam for its campaign, ending poverty starts with women, because that is the reason I am here. UN Women is the newest agency in the United Nations system. We were created because the United Nations recognises that what it has done over the past 60 years of its existence has not been sufficient. That can also be said for many of the governments that comprise the UN.

Progress has been made in some areas. In 1946, the Commission on the Status of Women was established under the aegis of the UN. The commission continues to meet annually to monitor the implementation of governmental commitments. In 1979, as an outcome of the commission’s work, governments adopted the Convention on the Elimination of all Forms of Discrimination against Women, which provides the framework of rights for women against which we measure all our work. There has also been a series of international conferences, the last of which was held in Beijing. The Beijing platform for action outlines what needs to be done to advance women’s rights and gender equality.

However, within the UN system we recognise that we have been fragmented. All UN agencies have worked on these issues but the results are not commensurate with the effort. This is why member states decided in 2010 to create UN Women by pulling together four distinct existing entities, namely, the division for advancement of women, INSTRAW, UNIFEM and OSAGI, which monitored internal UN efforts to achieve gender balance and women’s rights. The General Assembly asked us to continue the good work of these agencies but to do it differently. We were asked to combine what we do at the intergovernmental, normative level in terms of setting standards that governments apply to their own work with what is happening on the ground in terms of programmatic work. UN Women was given a clear universal mandate so that, unlike many development agencies which work solely in developing countries, we work all over the world to provide programmatic support to developing countries and policy advice to developed countries, as we did last year when the Council of Europe was developing the Convention on Preventing and Combating Violence against Women.

One of the purposes of building on these achievements was to enable UN Women to catalyse more effective work within the UN system. We were not created to replace the work of other UN agencies but to help them do better. We do not implement huge programmes at country level, although we are expanding our country presence, but rather we work through the UN resident co-ordinator system to support the co-ordinator and other UN agencies in becoming more effective on the ground. Our programmes are designed to be catalytic in order that national governments as well as UN agencies can build on them and make them sustainable in so far as development and women’s rights are concerned.

We carry out a number of global programmes which we try to make as collaborative as possible. We do not have unique programmes but, for example, work with FAO, IFAD and WFP on a programme for rural women, primarily in Africa but also in other regions. We are also working with the Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights and UNDP on a global programme of access to justice, and the UN statistical division, the World Bank, and the OECD on a programme to improve indicators and data on gender equality in order that they can be standardised for the entire world through the statistical commission.

Our funding reflects this unique mandate. We receive funding from the regular assessed budget of the United Nations as well as voluntary contributions. The OECD countries are our primary donors but many developing countries, such as the United Arab Emirates and the Dominican Republic, also provide regular annual support to our core budget. We are particularly grateful to Ireland as one of the leaders of the system-wide coherence effort within the UN, of which UN Women is one of the first children. In terms of funding, Ireland has also supported UN Women from its early years and has increased its contributions over time.

UN Women was established in recognition of the great disparities that exist for women worldwide. This is perhaps most starkly evident in developing countries, but it is true not only of them. Violence against women is a universal phenomenon that affects countries at all levels of income regardless of whether they suffer from conflict. Inequality in the distribution of resources, rights and responsibilities affects the lives of many. In the case of women, the structural basis of gender inequality compounds poverty, deprivation and discrimination. I wish to highlight a case which we have all been following over the last month. Malala Yousafzai is a 14 year old Pakistani girl who tried to claim the right to education and was attacked for it. For every 100 boys out of school worldwide, 122 girls are out of school. In many countries the situation is far worse. Ireland has kept gender equality as a central concern in its engagement with Europe and countries in the developing world. We commend it on this commitment and admire the fact that it brings its priorities together. Addressing hunger is one of Ireland’s priorities and, therefore, the issue of women in rural areas has also become a priority. If we work together we can make a big difference because rural women produce more than 55% of all food grown in developing countries and, once again, we are facing hunger problems and a spiralling food crisis.

Our priorities involve expanding the voice of women and their contribution to their own and their communities’ well-being.

We work on the issues of political participation and leadership, economic empowerment, women's role in peace building and gender responsive budgeting and planning. We recently joined the UNAIDS partnership as a co-sponsor and also play a key role in the Secretary General's Age Four Plus and Education First initiatives in an attempt to try to influence what the United Nations is doing in various areas.

I will not give specific examples of our work, but I hope we will have an opportunity to discuss it further. I would like to finish with a few remarks on the future and what we could do together. We know Ireland has played a lead role in influencing other countries on the issue of gender equality and in terms of its own commitment in its work. We look forward to a partnership with Ireland that can build on the past but also transform what we want to achieve in the future. We have several opportunities. We have the opportunity in the post-Rio conference period where sustainable development will be central to the agendas of all countries. We will have the post-2015 development agenda and have the intersection of the two with the definition of sustainable development goals. We are looking to the leadership of Ireland in ensuring these future frameworks will address the structural issues of gender inequality to transform everyone's life. We believe - this is something the United Nations has been saying for the past few months - that it is important that any future framework is underpinned by human rights, equality and sustainability and that it is developed in consultation with many interests. I look forward to today's engagement and I am grateful for the invitation extended to me.

Chairman

I thank Ms Menon. I call Ms Lilian Looloitai of CORDS. We are delighted to have her in Ireland and it is great to see her before the committee in her traditional dress. She looks extremely well.

Ms Lilian Looloitai

I thank the Chairman very much. I appreciate very much the invitation and the opportunity to meet the joint committee. We appreciate as NGOs in Tanzania the contribution Ireland makes through Irish Aid because we always receive support through it for our programmes. I thank the committee on behalf of my other colleagues from Tanzania.

I refer to the organisation I work with and gender issues. CORDS is a local organisation which was formed in 1998. It started to have a gender and women development programme in 2000. It has not been easy to undertake this programme. The Masai communities do not give opportunities to Masai women to access their rights. We have three objectives. One is reducing poverty through income activities. We have been doing work on income generating activities. This has to do with businesses and microfinance, from which we have seen many results. We also have a non-income poverty objective. This deals with education and the issue of capacity building for women and men because we find Masai women do not have access to education and that this has an effect from the family level to the community level. We have many challenges, but we believe we have done a lot to promote gender rights.

Property rights have also been a problem within Masai communities, especially with the link to gender issues. Women are not allowed to own livestock, land and other productive resources and this has limited their access to human rights. Education is not available because women are in the minority. The number of Masai women in the country with a degree is very low. We do not number more than 50. We feel like we are a minority among men and can also see how many of them go to university to masters level. Women are not moving that far. If one has a degree, one probably received a scholarship and there is no family support. The government is still not providing support. This has also dragged down the opportunities for women.

Decision making has been a big challenge for women in Tanzania and for us as Masai women because we are not allowed to attend meetings and talk and also to try to influence, even at the family level. This is also a factor I need to highlight. We do not have health facilities and services on Masai lands, but we believe as women we are the vulnerable among this vulnerable group. Men own properties and can sell livestock and land to go to hospital. Only men can sell livestock to take a woman or a child to hospital when they are almost dead and they probably will die on the way. We also do not have access to mobile clinics and vaccinations. I am not here to complain about my government, but we have hospitals only in the headquarters of the districts which are 80 km away from the people in rural communities. Therefore, it is difficult for the majority to access them. However, we can see how men have exposure. They are free to move or go to towns and have a higher possibility of accessing the available hospitals compared to women.

The only request I have for the Irish Government and the European people is to try to promote the issue of security of land within the pastoralist areas because we believe we are not secure as pastoralists. Members will be aware of Ngorongoro National Park and Conservation Area, the Serengeti, Tarangire, Manyara and Mkomazi. They were used to build pastoralist lands. Therefore, we believe the government and investors are torturing the pastoralists which, at the end of the day, affects pastoralist women. We need to have security over our own land in order that we can at least see something is being developed on our own land. The tendency is that the government considers the Masai are not settling, but this is not true and we do not receive social services or have access to resources surrounding our own area. I request the committee to lobby for resources and to tell our government to do something for its own people, including the people within pastoralist communities. We also need to look at changing the role of women. This has to be part of the international effort in our country because we can see how the government receives a number of policies and laws from outside, but they do not want to receive comments or an input from their own people. I request the committee to continue to support partners such as Oxfam in promoting our programmes for pastoralists and the entire developing world.

Mr. Jim Clarken

I thank the joint committee for its invitation, with special thanks to the Chairman, who has travelled with us in the past few months. Others have shown a tremendous commitment to our issues.

The impact of the visit by the Chairman and others to particularly remote parts of rural Tanzania to really understand the issues instead of reading about them was important and we are grateful for that level of engagement. We had a conference this morning on the theme of "Ending poverty starts with women" because that is something we in Oxfam strongly believe in. During the course of the morning, a number of issues came up. This gave a sense of the disproportionate effect that so many issues have on women and women locked into poverty. The burden of the financial crisis has been borne by women more than anyone else. Issues such as land grabbing, which Ms Looloitai mentioned and which is fuelled by the drive towards biofuels encouraged at EU level, have had a disproportionate impact on women and access to land. The lack of access to literacy, health and basic human rights disproportionately affects women. The impact of culture and unacceptable behaviour driven through social norms over generations again disproportionately affects women. Members are acutely aware of gender-based violence, which is not unique to developing countries but something from which we suffer in this country. There are many important issues and it was helpful to have our really great speakers come a long distance to speak to a large audience. Details of that will be available to members.

The disproportionate impact of poverty on women and girls is not an accident. It is the result of discrimination and the denial of women's basic human rights, rooted in the historical subordination of women in societies around the world. We in Oxfam believe that issues around women's rights are central to resolving wider issues of inequality and poverty. The gender justice agenda we speak about has to involve developed country donor governments and recipient governments, NGOs, local community-based organisations, local leadership and citizens all working together and focusing proactively on these issues that keep women and thereby their communities locked into poverty. These issues can be as far-ranging as the lack of progress on reproductive health, which we heard about this morning. People may not realise it but the single biggest killer of women in South Sudan is childbirth. Other issues include access to education, land rights and the impact of gender-based violence. Supporting women around the world in tackling these injustices and human rights abuses must become an even bigger priority than it is now. Certainly, we must laud Irish Aid and the Government for their commitment thus far but we feel Ireland and governments around Europe can do more, as can NGOs. We request that this become a key focus in the committee's thinking and in the strategies around our development support and assistance.

We say ending poverty starts with women not because women are passive victims who need to be helped but because women are often the innovators, the survivors, the source of true leadership and the social glue in their communities. I can give the committee many examples of inspirational leaders whom I have had the good fortune to meet in the various countries in which Oxfam works. I will give one example. Our country director in Haiti had to deal with the tragedy of losing two staff on the evening of the earthquake in 2010. When she was finally able to contend with this and try to ensure everybody else was alive and accounted for - the programme was terribly damaged - she went home and found her mother had been buried under her house. She recovered her mother's body, buried her and went back to work for the next several weeks leading the emergency response. This is just an example of one of many inspirational women leaders. Unless we invest more in women's rights issues, women such as that will not make it to the fore and will not make it into those leadership positions. That is what we need for society to prosper.

We strongly request that Ireland continue to develop its investment in gender issues and also act as an inspiration to other EU countries. There is a wonderful opportunity now with the Presidency starting in January. During those six months, a lot of progress will be made on the post-2015 framework for development. We encourage those in Ireland who will be involved in that to push strongly to ensure that women, women's rights and gender issues are at the forefront of and key to the delivery of that. We have seen how investment in gender issues from the donor community is now going down globally. Not only does this trend need to be reversed, but investment in gender issues needs to be strengthened substantially. Some good work has been done but we certainly need to do a lot more. Ireland has shown great leadership in the area of overall development support over many years but I appeal to the committee in these difficult times to continue to show the commitment that Ireland has shown and to work our way towards our aid commitment of 0.7% of GDP by 2015, which is not that far away. In respect of the millennium development goals, we are now talking about the post-2015 framework but we still have three years in which a lot can be achieved, so it is important that we do not lose sight of that and that we continue our focus and commitment. We encourage the committee to do that.

I have some closing points in respect of why the focus on gender is so important, which might help to trigger some thoughts and discussion later on. If one does not address gender issues consciously but rather buries them in some other programme, change will not really happen. Culture is never an excuse for gender inequality. A tradition that demeans people is not worth saving and we should not be precious about that. We should consider women's rights as human rights and think of sexism in the same way we think of racism - how offended we are by it. We should have zero tolerance in respect of discrimination against women. Gender issues are about the entire community, rather than just women. Men have a critical role to play in this. I encourage the men who are involved in decision-making processes to show a commitment for the benefit of the whole society.

Dr. Nata Duvvury

It is a great honour to be here and to present a few thoughts on gender equality in international development. I want to focus on gender-based violence. We are all aware of how important an issue this is but we do not necessarily understand the significant cost violence places on development itself and that it must therefore be addressed.

There are three ways in which violence affects development. It impacts on household economy, because households must spend a considerable amount of money to meet the out-of-pocket expenditures that are incurred when there is an incident of violence within the household. A study in Uganda showed that the out-of-pocket expenditure for households was $5, or 1.5% of the per capita GNI, per incident of violence. In research just concluded in Vietnam, we found that an incident of violence incurred out-of-pocket expenditures that amounted to 21% of monthly income for women. In India, we have calculated that out-of-pocket expenditure plus loss of income for missing work amounted to almost 30% of the monthly income of poor agricultural labourer households. This tells us that our anti-poverty alleviation programmes can be undermined by violence and that this is extremely important to bear in mind.

Violence has an impact upon the participation of women. We are all concerned that development should be on the basis of women's participation, but violence affects this.

Women are isolated and have very little social capital. Research has shown that women's participation in groups and social movements acts as a significant protective factor. We need inclusive development where we bring women out of the house and into the community and the economy. Violence impacts on long-term growth and it is very important to keep this in mind. The impact of violence on productivity is quite significant. Two studies conducted in 1996 found the productivity loss was 1.6% of GDP in Chile and approximately 2% in Nicaragua. Violence also impacts on schooling and the performance of children in school, which is an intergenerational cost of violence. This can impact on long-term growth, which requires developing human capital.

Evidence points to the importance of investing resources in preventing gender-based violence and enabling women to access the services they need after a violent incident. Irish Aid has been a very strong supporter of gender-based violence programmes and this should be recognised and applauded. The support given to the joint consortium on gender-based violence has been very important. The difficulty has been that there is very little integration of gender-based violence programming in other sectors, for example very little attention is paid to gender-based violence in agricultural sector programming. Gender-based violence programming is seen as legal programming to effect legislative frameworks and support women's groups, but it is not integrated sectorally in all of the main issues which underpin development.

The other issue in terms of gender equality and international development is the role of women in post-conflict reconstruction. Ireland has taken a very important first step by having a national action plan on United Nations Security Council Resolution 1325. It is very important that this comprehensive action plan is implemented without further delay.

Deputy Brendan Smith

I welcome the representatives from the various organisations before the committee today. Their comments indicate clearly the significant challenges which exist in the area under discussion. Mr. Clarken's comment that a culture which demeans people is not worth saving is powerful and surely strikes a chord with any rational person. Discrimination, the denial of basic human rights, injustice and the need, as Dr. Duvvury stated, for inclusive development are all very important points in developing and implementing policy. I welcome the important work done by Irish Aid in so many areas. All the witnesses referred to its work. The fact UN Women assists 62 countries with planning programmes shows the breadth of the work being undertaken and its necessity. I welcome this work.

All of us as individual parliamentarians support the work of Irish Aid, and it is worth noting the first objective of Irish Aid's gender equality policy is to advance equal rights for men and women. Particular emphasis is laid on the need to work to combat gender-based violence. The policy's second objective is to eliminate gender inequalities in access to, control of, and benefit from resources and services. Irish Aid has worked with many partners in many countries. Last year Irish Aid supported Ethiopia, Tanzania and Mozambique in strengthening their health systems and providing better services to their citizens. The work is wide-ranging and addresses not just hunger, which is very important, but also development. Ms Looloitai referred to the difficulties faced by women, especially with regard to food production and working in agriculture. We all would like to see a greater impetus in the role of women in agriculture and food production.

I do not know whether I understood properly, but it was mentioned that in Tanzania, women are not allowed own land or sell livestock. Eastern Africa was also mentioned in this regard. Land strikes a chord with Irish people because, throughout our history, it has been in our psyche and we had difficulties for many decades. I would like to hear the views of the witnesses on whether programmes can be improved or a different emphasis can be given to women in food production. The comments made today are very important.

I am relatively new to this area. A report from Irish Aid referred to greater participation in education at primary level in countries where the global partnership for education exists. Participation at primary level had increased to 60%. I am not at all familiar with the education systems which exist in developing countries. What is the participation rate of girls and young female adults at post-primary level or in technical education? Is there an imbalance with regard to those who have the opportunity to participate?

Senator David Norris

I compliment the Chairman on also looking well in his traditional dress.

Chairman

As is Senator Norris, as usual.

Senator David Norris

I thank the Chairman. May I say how welcome and instructive the visit of our distinguished guests is. Some of the questions I was going to ask have been at least partially answered. I was going to ask about the significance of cultural determinants because these are terribly important. I do not think we can afford to be too superior in this country. I am quite elderly, which comes as a surprise to people, but I am. I was an exact university contemporary of Mary Robinson, with whom I am sure the witnesses are familiar. I was very interested in the comment that ending poverty starts with women because several years ago Mary Robinson spoke in the Thomas Davis theatre in Trinity College, at an event which I believe was hosted by Oxfam, and this was the theme. She spoke very effectively.

Mary Robinson and I won the same prize for coming first in our subjects in university. I was a foundation scholar but she was a non-foundation scholar because women were not allowed to be foundation scholars. When I was an undergraduate, women had to leave the university premises by 7 p.m., otherwise they were fined. They could not be members of the main debating societies. Until 1882, women's property was immediately and automatically assumed into their husband's estate on the moment of marriage. We are all travelling, perhaps at slightly different rates for different reasons, along the same road. Therefore we cannot afford to be too superior.

I very much welcome what Mr. Clarken said, and the former Minister, Deputy Smith, noted it also, that a culture which discriminates is not worth preserving. He went on to say something from which I took even more heart, which is that we must not be precious. Very often in these diplomatic circles I see a preciousness that we must respect culture because of a colonial past. This is rubbish. Where there is injustice, one must face it and confront it. One does not bury one's head in the sand because of an absurd inhibition about treading on people's corns.

We are used to the ideas of centrality, women, the family, child rearing and multi-tasking. What I found particularly interesting, which was also discussed at the earlier conference, was the significant proportion of contribution in agricultural areas.

Getting as many facts on this matter as we can would be helpful, since these difficult issues make a significant difference.

The case of the 14 year old girl involves martyrdom. Unfortunately, progress is often made only because we learn how extreme a situation is. It is awful to say this, but the terrible suffering inflicted on a 14 year old girl appears to have changed some of the cultural context in Pakistan.

Violence was mentioned. I have been approached and have proposed a motion. Perhaps my Dáil colleagues on the committee might consider a version of it. It makes a number of points, that we condemn sexual violence, that the Government should affirm Ireland's commitment to implementing UN Security Council resolutions on women, peace and security, that we play a leadership role in international efforts to end sexual violence, bring about accountability and support survivors of sexual violence in conflicts through Irish diplomacy and development assistance, and that we support the efforts of organisations that draw attention to and denounce sexual violence. The motion has been supported by all Independent Members and Opposition parties. I have been negotiating with the Government and gather that we will get its Members' signatures next week and that the motion will be passed unanimously in the Upper House the following week. I hope this tiny measure will help in a small way.

My final point stems from my personal interest and career. Most of what we have discussed relates to domestic violence, but there is also political and conflict violence, as it were. The phrase "the vulnerable of the vulnerable" was used. Let us not forget gay men. I had coffee with Mr. David Kato six months before he was murdered at the instigation - regrettably, as I am a Christian - of the Christian churches in his country in sub-Saharan Africa. Gay men are even more vulnerable than women. In recent months I heard a story on RTE radio or perhaps the BBC World Service of men being raped. They were not gay and the shame and humiliation they felt meant they could not speak about it. Rape was used as an instrument of terror. It was sexual violence that was not sexual in the sense of intimacy. It was used to degrade, demoralise and cow. Be it men, women or, in some appalling circumstances, children who are raped, we cannot afford to be precious.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan

I welcome and congratulate our guests on their interesting dissertation. We all agree with the sentiments expressed. A number of matters spring to mind that are not purely gender-based. There seems to be a worldwide problem of violence against the vulnerable, be they women, children or the elderly. It appears to be a part of society. This ugly side seems to be prevalent and is not being checked. It continues regardless across the board in the form of female genital mutilation, a lack of education or access to job markets, etc. As Senator David Norris stated, many countries are affected.

The issue of the teenage girl who took a stand in Pakistan went slightly unnoticed. Given her age, her stance was courageous and she paid a high price for it. As other members probably have, I have submitted questions to the Minister in this regard. It behoves the worldwide community to focus on these issues and ensure the sacrifices being made and, most importantly, the reasons they are being made do not go unnoticed. That a child recognised the need to take such a stance on the issue of access to education is an inspiration to people of all ages everywhere. The worldwide community should converge on the issue and offer support in every way possible, be it through diplomatic intervention or otherwise.

Thanks to a recent visit, in the past week we have learned about land grabbing. Given the reasons set out by Mr. Clarken and others, it is a serious issue. People are conned out of their properties and relocated to facilitate mining or major agricultural enterprises that have nothing to do with the supposed intention of improving poor farmers' living standards but with the profit interests of large multinational corporations.

My final point is on development aid. It is important that we recognise that these straitened times pale into insignificance when compared with the level of deprivation and poverty obtaining in many other countries. We need to get this message across to the Government and the population. We must live up to our international responsibilities and we have bravely done so to date. The efforts of aid agencies and people on the ground, including indigenous community leaders, are superhuman and should be supported.

Deputy Maureen O'Sullivan

I welcome our guests. The presentations have been interesting. Each of the millennium development goals is praiseworthy, but unless we sort out the basic issue of hunger, nothing else can be done. If someone is hungry, he or she will not be able to attend school or work. I have limited experience of this issue in that I have visited some African countries. This time last week we were in Sierra Leone and I have been left with particular images in my mind.

The quality of teaching in many African countries is a significant issue. In Dublin I chair the board of management of a primary school. A vacancy arose unexpectedly. Last week we received 288 curricula vitae from qualified unemployed teachers. A connection could be made with teacher training colleges. All teachers would not want to take up this major role in Africa, but a number could fulfil it. As someone who was a teacher until three years ago, I was appalled that quite a number of teachers in Sierra Leone were involved in the rape of their students. It is horrific that a family member would do it, but teachers are in a position of trust. Having travelled miles to attend school to avail of an education, young girls must then face this possibility.

To mark International Day of the Girl Child I attended an event two weeks ago. Is this issue on our guests' agendas? We were conscious of the number of children having babies in Freetown in Sierra Leone. It was frightening.

On World Food Day we heard a presentation by Concern. We also heard from a man from Tanzania about land rights, including that people were giving away land for the price of a beer and so on, following which they moved on to another piece of land. He made us aware of the work ongoing in Tanzania to secure land rights.

An issue of major concern is land grabbing by multinational companies. I support the work some organisations are doing on the issue of tax injustice. Leaving aside the issue of corruption in particular governments, one conservative estimate is that €16 trillion is being lost to countries in the developing world because of the lack of country by country accounting and a blind eye is turned to tax avoidance and evasion. Ireland could play a much stronger role in calling for greater transparency in this regard.

Power in African countries appears to be vested in the President or often the government, with little or no role for Parliament. This is another issue on which Ireland could play a strong role. Communities in African countries have no voice. In Ireland community organisations have been progressive and to the fore in bringing about change. While today's discussion is focused on the issue of gender equality and the empowerment of women, communities must also have a voice. I am struck by the disconnect in certain places. While Johannesburg has first rate medical facilities, a high number of women die in childbirth. I am interested in hearing if there has been progress on the caste system. I acknowledge that many small steps are being taken. The role model idea is a good one. Each of the delegates is a good role model.

This time last week we visited a project in Sierra Leone with a particular NGO and discovered that every person in employment was a man. We had just come from meeting a group of women farmers. Given the upcoming elections in Sierra Leone, through an interpreter, I asked one woman who showed fantastic leadership qualities and was extremely feisty if she had any interest in politics. I might as well have asked her if she would consider going to the moon as to suggest someone of her farming background would even consider that possibility. As such, it is fantastic to see Ms Looloitai here today.

Deputy Dan Neville

I welcome the delegates and thank them for their succinct presentation. Although we have heard many presentations on this matter, we have not heretofore been given the same level of information.

I have two questions for the delegates. How committed is the international community, in particular the richer countries such as the United States, Germany, France and Britain, to tackling the issue of gender equality worldwide? Obviously, UN Women has an input in China, an important member of the United Nations. However, we receive very little information on gender status in China. There is much concern about the one child family policy in China. I do not know of any woman who is a senior member of the Communist Party. What involvement does China have in politics and civil society? While we are conscious of what is going on in terms of gender equality in Africa and the Far East, the position in China is, for some of us, a blank spot in this regard. Can the delegates, in particular Ms Menon, cast light on that issue?

Deputy Seán Crowe

I apologise for coming in and out of the meeting, but there is another meeting taking place with a delegation from the western Sahara. Having left that meeting early, I have also insulted it.

I would like to focus on NAP provision and apologise if this issue has been addressed. It is 11 months since the Government launched its national action plan on UN Security Council Resolution 1325. In the delegates' view, should the monitoring group be up and running by now, with full implementation of the plan under way? I understand the civil organisations involved in the UN Security Council resolution have proposed an alternative independent chairperson of the monitoring group, given the resignation of Inez McCormack owing to ill-health. Perhaps Mr. Clarken might indicate if there has been a response from the Tánaiste's office to that proposal?

Earlier this week some of us attended the launch of an RTE film on the Congo from which we learned that to date 4.5 million people had been killed and of the systematic use of rape as a weapon of war and a means of breaking people in that part of the world. The situation does not appear to be on anyone's agenda. While we are all aware of what is happening in Syria and other parts of the world, the scale of what is happening in the Congo region, in terms of the number of people killed, has been almost forgotten. Previously Roger Casement shone light on what was happening in the region, including people having their arms cut off and so on. This is still going on, despite the fact that there is a huge UN presence in the region. There have been stories told of enormous numbers of rapes being carried out about 20 km from the main UN camp. While standing up for human rights is important, it is equally important that we do not stand idly by while this continues.

On the last occasion the Tánaiste met the committee he told us about the establishment of a new group on Saudi Arabia. We are all aware of the role of women in society there. I have previously tried to get information on whether women are involved in the new business council. It is important to ensure a gender balance in these groups, in particular in those parts of the world where women are forced to take a step back. How important is it for countries in the West which have their own views on the issues of gender balance and the involvement of women in society to take a lead in this regard?

Ms Saraswathi Menon

I thank members for their suggestions and questions. On the issue of sexual violence in conflict, the important point was made that this did not only affect women. When the United Nations undertook an investigation in Libya, it found that the incidence of sexual violence against men was higher. This was an interesting finding. We need to address this issue.

A question was also posed about the situation in Syria.

The international community has made a significant breakthrough with a succession of resolutions at the UN Security Council. The shift was from looking at sexual violence from the perspective of women as sufferers and vulnerable victims, which they are, as rape is still used as a weapon of war. Nevertheless, there was a transformation of that perception to a different approach building on women's own abilities to transform their environment. The emphasis is on the role women can play in peace building and peacemaking, which is often undermined even when the UN does mediation work. We are pushing for the voice of civil society to be heard in mediation processes in the Middle East and Africa, in particular, among others. The UN Secretary General has committed to trying to ensure that whatever the UN does in fielding missions and providing advice, there should be inclusion not just of the presence of women but also advice on processes such as quotas and so on in any post-conflict reconstruction.

We have seen through analysis that where there are suggestions of having temporary special measures introduced within an electoral system - as is being introduced here - as opposed to where there is no such advice and countries have not introduced quotas, in post-conflict positions election results are very different. Where that advice exists from the UN, 30% of the elected body is often made up of women. There is a shift but that should not mean we will continue to ignore what is still happening with regard to violence against women and men during conflicts.

Our concern as UN women is to deal with the issue by exposing where it happens and finding solutions that are not just limited to a response. In other words we look at preventative action. I will not provide a detailed answer on the specific question of the national action plan as others from Ireland are better placed to answer it. UN Security Council Resolution 1325 not only calls for response to violence but for training peacekeepers to play a different role and training those engaged in negotiations and the diplomatic services. We have just begun a programme with the United Nations Institute for Training and Research, which trains national civil servants, on the role of women in mediation, conflict resolution and so on. All this is an essential part of the resolution in any national action plan. When we consider sexual violence, we cannot only see it as a weapon of war but using that prism, we must unpack much more to give opportunities to women, civil society and activists to transform what comes out of conflict as much as the way conflict is carried out.

With regard to UN Resolution 1325, it would be wonderful if Ireland took a strong position on the national action plan soon as next Monday, 29 October, is the annual open debate on women, peace and security at the UN Security Council. All governments will speak on what they have done with their own action plans.

The attack on Malala Yousafzai took place one day after the first International Day of the Girl Child. It is a reflection of how we honour something in public but it does not translate to what is happening on the ground. I was intrigued by the comment that we are not doing enough internationally so I draw attention to the fact there is a major campaign - detailed on www.iammalala.org - which is seeking approximately 1 million people to sign up. This petition is to be taken by Mr. Gordon Brown, the UN Secretary General's special envoy on education-----

Senator David Norris

Can men sign up to it?

Ms Saraswathi Menon

Everybody can sign up, even those older than 14. Mr. Brown will take the petition to President Zardari and there has already been a reaction in Pakistan. We hope it will encourage that and other governments to do more.

I will speak briefly on what Ireland can do. One can relate to the issue of gender-based violence. The next Commission on the Status of Women, which meets in March in New York, has as its priority theme violence against women. It is a significant opportunity for a country like Ireland to showcase how it has dealt with the issue nationally. The second element of the issue is that Ireland will at that time have the EU Presidency, so there is an opportunity to bring together the entire European Union to discuss the issues in a way that recognises violence against women is a global epidemic. This must be dealt with in the same manner we dealt with HIV-AIDS; it is not just a problem of health, violence or women individually but a problem affecting economies, societies, politics and the lives of men, women and children. Therefore, the method of tackling the problem must be more significant than if we are dealing with an issue just related to women, health or the provision or funding of services. We must consider prevention, so I refer to the quality of education. We must judge whether the standard of education deals with these kinds of issues and transforms society in the process.

There were a couple of questions on the caste system. I come from India but gender inequality is innate in all societies, and it is often compounded when it intersects with racism, caste systems or any other form of discrimination. Gender discrimination has all kinds of ramifications in different societies. We have discussed Saudi Arabia and the one-child policy in China, including the discriminatory consequences for girls. When it intersects with other forms of discrimination, it plays out in a very different way, so tackling it cannot only be done through legislation. Untouchability is banned in the Indian constitution, for example. The problem must be tackled through the actions of women and men in society, which can be supported through education and campaigns etc. It is a transformation of the mind and the way one thinks of his or her culture and tradition that must come about.

Several of us have spoken about the opportunity Ireland will have with the post-2025 framework. Perhaps the next six months will be crucial with regard to Europe coming from the crisis, and Ireland will have the EU Presidency at this time. We would like to see the response to the economic crisis as one promoting people's development, gender equality and looking for solutions that are not singly technocratic but rather pro-people. Perhaps this moment of crisis could be used to carve a new future.

Mr. Jim Clarken

There were some interesting comments and questions and I will do my best to try to cover as many as I can and complement what has already been said. Deputy Crowe asked if the monitoring group for the national action plan should be up and running. It should be but is not so we urge those with influence to try to ensure that happens as soon as possible. It is very sad about Ms Inez McCormack's personal situation and we offer our sympathies to her. She would have been an ideal chairperson but, unfortunately, that has not been possible. It is important that the process gets moving with some momentum.

I was not aware of the documentary regarding the Congo. We brought a television crew to Congo approximately three years ago and there was an outdoor exhibition in Dublin and Belfast to highlight the issue. The statement that this is a forgotten war is correct. With 5.4 million people killed, it is the worst conflict since the Second World War but it is still not seen on the media every day of the week. As a result there is not sufficient focus on it and we must continue our efforts in that respect. Oxfam works there, supported by Irish Aid, and we are grateful for that.

I will mention the Arab world with regard to Saudi Arabia. I recently returned from Tunisia, having met with women's groups in that country.

They talk about revolution in the present tense, which is interesting. One would have been very ambitious for the rights of women in that type of environment but they are very concerned - surprisingly enough, it was quite a secular society underneath the dictatorship - about women's rights not only in Tunisia but in Egypt and other countries in the region. That is an area we need to continue to focus on and apply pressure, externally and internally, to make sure it does not slide and that progress is made in the right direction.

I refer to Deputy O'Sullivan's comments and to tax justice, as we describe it. It has to be a key focus for our work and we need to highlight where injustices occur. As part of our work, we have been involved in applying pressure and laws have been enacted in the US to ensure that US multinationals involved in the extractive industry in various African countries, in particular, are transparent in regard to where exactly the material comes from, the prices paid, how the communities are affected and so on. That is for all of the companies listed on all of the US stock exchanges. We hope similar pressures will work in Europe because there is still a lack of transparency as to how these exchanges work and, of course, we have situations in which there are shelf companies in tax havens preventing national governments from generating revenue.

Ultimately, development will be in the hands of the governments of developing countries with the support of bilateral and multilateral engagement and so on. Our belief is that for effective development to happen, one needs two things. One needs an effective state, government and parliament rather than power being vested in one space. One also needs a very active civil society which holds that government to account to ensure it does what it says it will do and delivers what it says it will deliver and which challenges it on all those issues. An active media space in which it is safe for civil society to challenge the government, as we are fortunate enough to have here, is needed. That is something we strongly believe in.

Deputy Smith talked about agriculture and the role of women in agriculture. Today, as part of our conference, we are celebrating some work we have done in Tanzania, with which the Chairman is familiar. We run a programme called Female Food Heroes which shines a light on the important role women and women farmers play in the production and delivery of food for the whole of the nation. This started off as just a concept and we thought we might have a couple of hundred people interested in participating but in the first year, we ended up having more than 7,000 applicants. We reduced it down to a manageable number and created a competition which was televised in Tanzania. Ultimately, the winner won a tractor and other support. The prizes are not important; what is important is raised awareness among men and women of the key role women play in agriculture and food production. They are central to the success of that, so our support is important.

I really appreciated the comments by Deputy Durkan in regard to the relative significance of our problems versus those in other parts of the world, which he linked to our ongoing commitments in regard to aid. It is important to realise there is much success, although we talk about these huge problems and issues we are dealing with. I refer to the We Can End All Violence Against Women programme, on which we work in many countries. We encourage men and women to sign up to this campaign and become what are known as change makers. We were at an event outside Dar es Salaam at which these change makers were being initiated and were being asked to sign up to make a very short number of commitments that they would not engage in violence against women. The men will not do it and the women will not accept it and they will encourage others. This is having a dramatic effect on culture and society and on acceptance of these things. There are tremendous successes as well.

This is a long game and we need to stay in it. Collectively, we need to stay committed and we will continue to see positive results.

Dr. Nata Duvvury

I have one comment in regard to the national action plan. It is extremely important that the action is implemented without further delay. It is, of course, extremely sad about Inez. As Mr. Clarken said, we are all very understanding about that situation. As others highlighted, there will again be a discussion at the UN Security Council on women and peace and security next Monday. It is really important as it is more than a year since the action plan was drafted.

Ms Lilian Looloitai

People can own land but in the case of women, they might not have access and utilisation. In the case of the Masai, one can have the piece of paper showing ownership of land without having access to and utilisation of that land. We need to go beyond that.

It was mentioned that people are selling land for a bottle of beer. In the case of Masai, that is true in some parts but this has been tricky for village governments and at district level. Something needs to be done.

I refer to the issue of pastoralism. I think I mentioned that pastoralism is not supported as a livelihood system in Tanzania. In the case of Kenya, it is getting support through the new constitution. It is different from Tanzania right now.

Chairman

I endorse that, particularly in regard to the Masai tribe. Pastoralism is their way of life and an important part of the Masai culture. We hope that when the Tanzanian Government is reviewing its constitution, that form of farming and the Masai tribe will be taken into account because they are the face of Tanzania for many tourists visiting the country. Tourism is important to Tanzania and the Masai people are important, as we saw when we were there.

Deputy Seán Crowe

I asked about UN Security Council Resolution 1325. It was adopted unanimously in 2000 but ten years later, very little had happened. We now have this national action plan. No chair has been elected, although I think civil society has recommended a number of replacements for Inez. I recommend that we write to the Minister in this regard. The resolution is coming up at the UN again. If a chairperson were in place, we could move forward in implementing the plan. It is a small step. Again, we are talking about symbolism.

Deputy Dan Neville

I am aware that in China there are more suicides among women than men, whereas in the Western world, the ratio is 4:1 men to women.

Ms Saraswathi Menon

In India, we see male farmers committing suicide. There are many different types of pressure in different countries. In China, it is an interesting situation. Inequality in China is now wider than in Brazil, which was the benchmark. There have been huge gains in many areas, including education, health and economic opportunity, but we still have some structural issues which did not exist earlier or had been combatted in certain ways, including women's rights, and which are resurfacing. Two were touched on. One is the role women play in decision-making, which is a universal problem. On average, women comprise only 18% or 19% of parliaments throughout the world. I believe it is even lower in Ireland.

I am not judging by the current participation rate. It is still lower in this Parliament. In China it is not just a question of representation. The actual decision making in the higher bodies of the party, etc. is also critical. We are more concerned that the one child policy has led to a skewed male preference within families. The efforts to deal with the population problem have changed perceptions of the value of children.

We discussed tradition and culture. Tradition is something that is passed down but culture is something society creates. In a way, the problem we see in China has been caused by something that had to be done. If the population of China had continued to grow as it was growing, China and the rest of the world would have had a problem because of the pressure on resources, etc. The action taken in China has unleashed another problem, however - the reduction in the value of the girl child. This issue has to be dealt with. The Chinese are very aware of the problem and the United Nations and various countries have to help to find a solution to it. We cannot just point fingers. This is a shared problem. The rest of the world is grateful that China dealt with its population growth problem as it had to do, but this has led to a further problem. However, male preference is not unique to China. It also happens in parts of southern Asia and Africa. We need to work together on this general problem.

Chairman

I thank Ms Menon. I acknowledge the presence of Mr. Jim Wells, MLA, who travelled with me on the Oxfam visit to Tanzania as part of a North-South initiative that worked extremely well. I thank him for sitting in the Visitors Gallery. I know he attended this morning's conference to hear at first hand about what was happening in this jurisdiction on the issue of gender equality. I thank him very much for doing so. Obviously, gender equality is a fundamental human right and an essential part of any effective poverty reduction strategy. On foot of today's meeting, with the permission of the committee, I suggest we write to the Tánaiste to ask him to highlight the importance of gender equality during Ireland's forthcoming Presidency of the European Union. It would be useful for us to ensure gender equality was included as part of the programme for our Presidency. With the permission of members, we will get the secretariat to organise this.

Deputy Brendan Smith

Agreed.

Chairman

I thank our guests sincerely for taking the time to come before us. We have had an interesting debate on a subject that is of great importance, particularly in developing countries. I thank Ms Lilian Looloitai of CORDS. I hope she has a good time during her few days in Ireland. I thank Ms Saraswathi Menon of UN Women for coming before us and attending this morning's conference. I thank Mr. Jim Clarken for arranging this process. I thank Dr. Nata Duvvury of NUI Galway. All of our guests made interesting and valid contributions on the subject matter of the meeting which we all found very useful. Unfortunately, some of our members had other commitments and could not be here. I am sure they would have enjoyed the session and found it interesting.

The joint committee went into private session at 4.05 p.m. and adjourned at 4.15 p.m. until 2.30 p.m. on Wednesday, 7 November 2012.