JOINT COMMITTEE ON HEALTH AND CHILDREN debate -
Tuesday, 1 Dec 2009

Separated Parents and Children: Discussion with Time 4 Us.

Chairman

I welcome the representatives from Time 4 Us. I welcome Ms Fionnuala Foley and her colleagues. I draw witnesses' attention to the fact that members of the committee have absolute privilege but the same privilege does not apply to witnesses appearing before the committee. Members are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice that members should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the House or an official by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable.

Members have studied the submission in advance. I apologise that as a result of a vote in the House we are running behind schedule. I invite Ms Foley to synopsise the submission before inviting questions from members.

Ms Fionnuala Foley

Time 4 Us is a play centre for families where one of the parents does not live in the family home. These parents are referred to as non-resident parents. Time 4 Us provides a safe neutral venue where non-resident parents can spend time with their children in a fun-filled relaxed environment. As well as play facilities, parents can prepare snacks for their children and help them with homework if they wish. To date more than 120 families have availed of this service with up to 30 families attending the service on a weekly basis. Typically a family will use the service for two to three hours each week.

I will summarise the objectives which are listed in the submission. The objectives of Time 4 Us are to provide the following: a non-intrusive, inexpensive facility where non-resident parents can spend time with their children; a child-friendly facility with activities and equipment to facilitate improved bonding with parents through the medium of play; a service for certain targeted families referred by the legal and health services; and an opportunity for referral to other agencies to meet the needs identified by the service users.

The need for Time 4 Us's service was identified through consultation in Galway with various professional health and social service groups, community groups and separated parents. A growing social problem was identified where non-resident parents who have limited access time with their children had no alternative but to meet them in shopping centres or fast food outlets. The 2006 census showed there were 7,600 one-parent families living in Galway, 85% of which were headed by the mother. National and international research has highlighted the importance for children of having a father figure involved in their lives.

Time 4 Us was set up to provide a cost-free venue with opening hours to suit the needs of parents and including evenings and weekends. It is in an easily accessible location in Galway city and caters for children from babies to 14 year olds. The venue is provided free of charge by the HSE.

The majority of parents using the centre are fathers with a small number of non-resident mothers also using the service. In addition, the service is used by families where children in foster care have an opportunity to meet up with one or both of their parents on access visits. Time 4 Us also provides a venue for children in care to meet their parents on supervised access visits organised by HSE social workers.

The families using the service come from a broad range of socio-economic backgrounds. It is open to all families in the community with a non-resident parent. Many families self-refer with others being referred by means of the legal and family support services.

Time 4 Us is a registered company limited by guarantee. The management structure comprises representatives from the HSE, the Department of Social and Family Affairs, Galway city and county child care committee and the business sector. Each of these partners provides funding for the service which employs a full-time project leader and four relief project workers who work on contract as required.

An evaluation of the Time 4 Us service was carried out by the child and family research centre at NUI Galway in 2008. The findings of the evaluation included the following outcomes: the service has a positive impact on relationships between the non-resident parents and their children; it led to improved bonding between the child and parent; there was less conflict, better trust and better communication between the non-resident and resident parents; and it led to increased access time for many parents. In many cases there had been weekend-only access initially and this was extended to visits during the week and after school. Children were found to be performing much better at school, as reported by teachers. There was an overall improvement in the children's behaviour. It also found that Time 4 Us has acted as a gateway to other services, such as family mediation and support services in the community.

Since the completion of the evaluation, a number of additional outcomes have been reported. There are now fewer cases going to court. Many families are now referred directly to the service by agreement facilitated by solicitors or the mother and father, without going through the court process. This reduces conflict and stress for the families and children and also has the effect of freeing up court time. It has led to family reunion for children in large families. In a number of cases, Time 4 Us has provided the opportunity for children from large families who are in separate foster homes to be reunited, in some cases for the first time since they went into care. This is the only venue in the region that can facilitate this type of access visit.

Time 4 Us is a unique service and is the first of its kind in the Republic of Ireland. It is the practical response to the changing needs of modern families. Non-resident parents have an opportunity to participate in family life activities such as helping with homework and preparing snacks. The service is open at times that meet the needs of children and parents, in the afternoons, evenings and weekends.

Chairman

I thank Ms Foley for being so concise in her presentation. I congratulate her on the work of the service.

Senator Phil Prendergast

I thank the delegation for a very informative brief. I do not wish to sound patronising but this is a fantastic project. I am sure parents from different cultures are involved in this project because I cannot imagine that Galway is any less cosmopolitan than the rest of the country. Is it planned to expand the service to other areas of the country? I note that the "Nationwide" programme featured the centre in a report. It is such an excellent service that it cries out to be extended around the country. I note that families are enabled to bypass the courts and come straight to the service and this is a very positive aspect. I am sure this contributes significantly to positive family interaction. Some children may be upset by the traditional practice of parental access on Sundays at McDonald's. This is a much more positive and proactive way of doing things. I congratulate those involved in this excellent facility, which assists 7,604 one-parent families in Galway. I would like it to be expanded throughout the country. I am sure we can find statistics to show there is a need for a service like this elsewhere. I am delighted to have been here for this debate. I congratulate Time 4 Us on this great initiative.

Deputy Margaret Conlon

I apologise for being late. It took a little while for me to get here after the vote in the Dáil. I have read the Time 4 Us presentation. I congratulate the group on the work it is doing for mothers and fathers. There is a particular focus on fathers. It is important for children to have both parents in their lives. Children miss out if they do not have a father figure. Is there anything we should be doing for those who made the presentation? Is there anything they would like us to do on their behalf? I apologise in advance for my departure to a parliamentary party meeting in a few minutes. I would be interested to hear from the representatives of Time 4 Us.

Deputy Niall Blaney

I welcome the group from Galway. It is great that the group is doing such excellent work. It is obvious that the delegates have a great deal of expertise in dealing with separated couples. They will be aware of some of the difficulties with the legal system. The courts come down on the side of the mother in almost every case, regardless of the relevant circumstances. Could the representatives of Time 4 Us express their views on how they feel the courts operate? Do they believe the child's place is always with the mother, regardless of the circumstances? Do they agree that our legal system should be changed so that it treats families - mothers and fathers - in a fairer manner?

Deputy Jan O’Sullivan

I welcome the Time 4 Us delegation and thank it for its presentation. It has provided for a humane response to the difficulties that are often encountered by families following separation. Children may be in foster care, for example. Ms Foley said that the children of big families who are in foster care might not get an opportunity to meet their siblings, which is really sad. The idea that they can come together in one place is a really good one. It is not good that separated fathers have to bring their children to burger joints, etc., to meet them. I agree with Senator Prendergast that this endeavour should be replicated throughout the country. I would be interested in how it is funded. Is it feasible to extend it to other parts of the country? Is the future operation of this scheme secure?

Deputy James Reilly

I apologise for not being here for the presentation. I had to go to the Dáil for a vote and to raise a couple of other issues on the Order of Business.

I support what others have said about funding. I would like to know how much the service costs. I agree with my colleagues that this should be available throughout the country. I am inclined to say that some of the best ideas come out of the west. Time 4 Us is based just around the corner from where my wife lived for many years, on O'Conaire Road.

This real social issue will become much more prevalent in the years to come. Time 4 Us has acknowledged that although those who use the service are mainly men, women sometimes do so as well. On the issue raised by Deputy Blaney, I believe the courts are beginning to look at things slightly differently from how they used to do in the past. There was a time when extraordinary circumstances would have to pertain before a father would get custody of a child. It is obvious that it is best for a child to be brought up in an intact family unit. If that is not possible as a result of relationship difficulties, this is a wonderful service to give comfort to all involved. It reassures the parent who has custody that the child is in a safe environment when he or she is with the other parent.

I commend those involved in Time 4 Us. Like others, I would like the service to be extended throughout the country. I would like to know what the organisation's cost base is. How much does it get from the HSE and from voluntary contributions? How much would it cost to extend the service?

Chairman

We do not normally bring in locally-based groups. We did so on this occasion because we were so impressed by the organisation's initial presentation, as well as its innovative and valuable work. As public representatives, we engage practically on a daily basis with families that have been dispersed for one reason or another. We see the consequences, including the trauma for children, of the breakdown of relationships. I suppose we see the ongoing loss that is suffered by parents who do not have regular access to their children. Any agency or body that can do something to enhance the lives of all participants in such families is doing really valuable work. Like Deputy Conlon and others, I would like the delegation to make some practical proposals that would allow us to help Time 4 Us to replicate this sort of initiative around the country.

Ms Fionnuala Foley

I was asked about the cost of the service. The initial once-off capital set-up cost was between €50,000 and €60,000. We have pared back our running costs in recent times. At present, our annual running costs are approximately €110,000, including staffing costs of €80,000. We have to make a payment in kind to the HSE because we use a building that belongs to the HSE. In addition, the HSE covers the running costs of the building such as the telephone bill. We receive €5,000 per annum from the business sector. The total cost of €110,000 per annum is not that much when one considers that we cater for a significant number of families.

Deputy James Reilly

Does that figure include rent costs?

Ms Fionnuala Foley

No, it includes a payment in kind for rent. The building is——

Dr. Trish O’Flynn

I am a child care manager with the HSE in Galway. We support this project through section 10 funding. We give €25,000 a year to it. The project is based in one of our buildings, in which other services are also provided. We cover the rent and telephone costs, etc. Most of the funds are used for salary costs and expenses associated with activities, such as snacks, etc. The Department of Social and Family Affairs provides approximately €30,000 per annum.

Ms Mary Giblin

We are fortunate that the business sector has been involved since the early stages of the project. It helped to kick-start our operations. The chairperson was from the business sector. We never know from year to year how much we will get from the business sector. We could get €5,000 this year. It is not very much, but it is money. This is a bad time for the business sector. We also get a little funding from the courts.

Dr. Trish O’Flynn

We would love to roll out the scheme throughout the country. As child care manager for Galway, my responsibility does not extend beyond Galway. We will struggle with the funding for this service every year. Ideally, a similar scheme would be established in every county. In such circumstances, there would have to be a funding stream in the Department of Health and Children or the Department of Social and Family Affairs.

Chairman

Where was the project initiated? Did it stem from the county child care committee, the HSE or the voluntary sector? Where did the inspiration come from?

Dr. Trish O’Flynn

It came from various sources. Ms Giblin and Ms Foley work in the county child care committee and I work in the HSE. The HSE and the county child care committee in Galway work closely together. The Department of Social and Family Affairs and the business community are also represented. In fairness, it grew from the county child care committee.

Ms Mary Giblin

As Dr. O'Flynn said, it came from a need that had been identified. We work with mothers, fathers and service providers. The fathers made it clear that there was a gap in the market. As the Chairman said earlier, some fathers feel a sense of loss because they do not have access to their children. A group of us came together to consider what we could do about the matter. We are very fortunate that the HSE allowed us to make the best possible use of a building that was vacant. That is how it happened.

Chairman

While I do not wish to pre-empt a decision by members, perhaps our guests should invite a delegation from the joint committee to visit Galway early in the new year to observe the work being done by Time 4 Us. On the basis of its findings, the joint committee could make some recommendations.

Dr. Trish O’Flynn

Perhaps members would like to visit after the floods.

Chairman

We will wait until the waters have safely subsided. I thank members for their attention and contributions. We will meet a number of groups next Tuesday to discuss the Adoption Bill 2009 in advance of Committee Stage of the legislation. A select committee meeting will take place tomorrow to discuss the Estimates.

The joint committee adjourned at 5.35 p.m. until 10.30 a.m. on Tuesday, 8 December 2009.