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JOINT COMMITTEE ON JUSTICE, DEFENCE AND EQUALITY debate -
Wednesday, 7 Dec 2011

Garda Síochána Ombudsman Commission: Motions

Apologies have been received from Senator Rónán Mullen. The purpose of today's meeting is to have a discussion with the Minister for Justice and Equality on the motion re the proposed recommendation by Dáil Éireann and Seanad Éireann on the appointment of the new Garda Síochána Ombudsman Commission. I welcome the Minister and his officials. We will be given a briefing by the Minister followed by a discussion on the motion. Members should be aware that under the salient rulings of the Chair members should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the House or an official by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable. The committee is discussing the motion and not making any decision on it.

As usual, members should turn off all mobile telephones to ensure there is no interruption of the sound system. I invite the Minister to begin.

The Government at its meeting of 1 December last decided to nominate Mr. Simon O'Brien, Ms Carmel Foley and Mr. Kieran Fitzgerald for appointment by the President as members of the Garda Síochána Ombudsman Commission and to nominate Mr. O'Brien as chairperson of the commission. Under the Garda Síochána Act 2005, appointments to the Garda Ombudsman Commission must also be recommended by both Houses of the Oireachtas through resolutions. These resolutions are scheduled to be taken on Friday in both Houses, which is why the proposed appointments are to be considered first by this joint committee.

The Garda Síochána Ombudsman Commission provides a system for receiving complaints and dealing with allegations of Garda misconduct in a manner that is efficient, effective and fair to all concerned, and that also promotes public confidence in the process for resolving those complaints. The ombudsman commission is empowered to independently investigate complaints against Garda members. It may also initiate investigations in the public interest even where no complaints have been made. It has been provided with the necessary powers to discharge these functions, including policing powers of arrest and detention.

The first commissioners were appointed in 2005 and had to oversee the development of a new organisation with a new mandate. The initial tasks of the commission were to develop relevant procedures and protocols, as well as to provide relevant training for its staff so the organisation could properly carry out its functions when it opened its doors to receive complaints in May 2007. In the period since mid-2007 to the end of September 2011, the Garda Síochána Ombudsman Commission received just over 10,900 complaints of which 6,000, or 55%, were admitted for investigation. Of these admissible complaints, 51% related to allegations of a disciplinary nature, while 35% concerned allegations of a criminal nature. A small number of complaints were resolved informally.

A total of 2,555 complaints have been referred by the Commissioner of the Garda Síochána for investigation in accordance with section 94 of the 2005 Act. Such references relate to relatively minor matters and they may be supervised by the commission, although handled by the Garda authorities. This approach recognises the role of the Garda Commissioner as the disciplinary authority for the force. Additionally, it frees up the Garda Síochána Ombudsman Commission to focus on the more complex complaints.

The ombudsman commission has referred a total of 111 files to the Director of Public Prosecutions, DPP, with a recommendation that a prosecution be considered, and a further 89 files have been referred to the Commissioner of the Garda Síochána with a recommendation that they be processed under the internal Garda disciplinary procedures. In addition, six investigations were undertaken under section 102(4) of the 2005 Act. This enables the Garda Síochána Ombudsman Commission to investigate a matter in the public interest even where it has not received a complaint. A further investigation under section 106 was initiated by a previous Minister, the late Brian Lenihan, relating to the system of fixed penalty charges. The objective of section 106 investigations is to reduce the incidence of complaints to the Garda Síochána Ombudsman Commission on particular areas by clarifying the relevant policy involved.

An important performance indicator is the level of public awareness of the Garda Síochána Ombudsman Commission. A public attitude survey carried out by the commission in 2010 shows high levels of awareness of its powers. More than 60% of participants believed the Garda Síochána Ombudsman Commission to be independent and fair to all parties.

All of the Garda Síochána Ombudsman Commission's work is underpinned by its values of independence, impartiality and fairness. The organisation is provided with an annual budget of approximately €9 million and has a current staffing complement of 87, not including the three commissioners and two senior Garda staff who are on secondment to the organisation. These are some of the key points regarding the operation of the commission and I will shortly lay a detailed report before both Houses on the first five years of its work.

I offer my personal thanks and the thanks of the Government to the two outgoing members of the Garda Síochána Ombudsman Commission, Mr. Dermot Gallagher and Mr. Conor Brady. Mr. Brady has served a full six year term, while Mr. Gallagher joined the commission as chairperson in 2009 following the untimely death of Mr. Kevin Haugh, the first chairperson and former judge of the High Court. Both Mr. Brady and Mr. Gallagher have made a major contribution towards the successful establishment and development of the commission in its crucial early years. Their work, along with that of the third member, Ms Carmel Foley, has laid the foundation for the success of the commission and they deserve our sincere thanks and appreciation.

The nominees whose names are before the joint committee today for approval arose from a public call for expressions of interest for appointment to the Garda Síochána Ombudsman Commission. Advertisements were placed on my Department's website and the website of the Public Appointments Service. This is the first time appointments to the commission have been dealt with in this way. A total of 40 expressions of interest were received and I thank all those involved for their interest and the care they took in their responses. I assure everyone concerned that I have given very careful consideration to all of the applications.

Arising from this, the Government is nominating Mr. Simon O'Brien to be chairman of the commission. Mr. O'Brien is currently deputy chief inspector of the Garda Síochána Inspectorate and was previously territorial policing commander in the UK Metropolitan Police, commanding policing across 11 boroughs in north east London with a staff of more than 9,000 reporting to him. He therefore has not only extensive experience of policing at a senior level, but an excellent knowledge of the Garda Síochána and the policing environment in which it operates.

The Government is also proposing the re-appointment of Ms Carmel Foley as a member of the commission. Ms Foley has played a very important role in the establishment and development of the commission and her re-appointment will provide valuable continuity. She has many years of experience as a civil and public servant, particularly in public interest roles such as Director of Consumer Affairs. She has also previously served as chief executive in both the Employment Equality Agency and Council for the Status of Women.

The Government is also proposing the appointment of Mr. Kieran Fitzgerald as a member of the commission. Mr. Fitzgerald is currently a civil servant occupying the post of head of communications and research in the commission. Previously, he was self-employed as a communications consultant. As a journalist, Mr. Fitzgerald was a senior reporter on RTE's "Prime Time" programme, winning the news and current affairs journalist of the year award in 2000. He has graduate and postgraduate qualifications in law and economics and is in the final stage of a doctorate in governance which he is undertaking through Queen's University Belfast. I have no doubt he will continue to use his considerable communications skills to expand the outreach of the commission to gardaí and the wider community in the coming years.

The combination of the skills and experience of the three nominees will provide the Garda Síochána Ombudsman Commission with strong and effective leadership over their five year term of office. Under their direction, the commission will continue to provide effective, fair and balanced oversight of policing in this country.

The three nominees are strong candidates for important posts in the Garda Síochána Ombudsman Commission. To carry out their tasks gardaí are rightly given extensive powers, including powers of arrest and detention. These powers, although used in challenging and often dangerous circumstances, must be exercised in a lawful and proportionate manner. It is vital that we fully address allegations of Garda misconduct or wrongdoing in the interest of maintaining public confidence in the force and protecting the professional standing of the overwhelming majority of dedicated and conscientious gardaí. The Garda Síochána Ombudsman Commission is a vital part of our policing structure. It must secure and maintain the trust and confidence of members of the public and the force alike. To do this, it must be led by a team of skilled and competent commissioners. On behalf of the Government, I have no hesitation in recommending these three nominees for the joint committee's approval.

I welcome the Minister and thank him for his contribution. I am pleased a detailed report on the first five years of the work of the Garda Síochána Ombudsman Commission will shortly be laid before both Houses of the Oireachtas. I join the Minister in paying tribute to the outgoing members of the commission and concur with his view that they have established a strong reputation for the commission as an independent and impartial body. I was among the many who had various criticisms about the model that was adopted in the original legislation, particularly the fact that it was tripartite, in other words, it consisted of three people rather than one, as is the case in Northern Ireland. The tripartite model has worked very well, however.

I am glad to note Ms Carmel Foley has been reappointed to the commission. This is a positive and excellent choice. I welcome the public appointments process outlined by the Minister which resulted in two individuals being nominated to join Ms Foley on the Garda Síochána Ombudsman Commission. Both candidates appear to be exceptional and I do not have any issue with the choice that has been made. Is it unusual in policing ombudsman commissions in other countries to have two people appointed who are effectively on the inside? In this case, one of the candidates is on the staff of the existing commission, while the other is a member of the Garda Síochána Inspectorate. Clearly, a public appointments process has been followed from which the individuals in question have emerged as exceptional candidates but I wonder if this was an unexpected outcome.

Applications received from all of the persons were examined in detail. The applicants had different levels of experience. Some who applied in good faith had very little experience for this particular job. The three people appointed were determined to be the best qualified with a range of experiences. The Garda Síochána Inspectorate is an entirely independent body and is independent of the Garda Síochána. It has contributed, in a very beneficial way, to looking at and reviewing various matters relating to the structure of the Garda and its performance from an objective perspective. Far from being an insider, the new chairman is someone with expertise in the area. He is not an insider in the sense of being any part of the Garda Síochána structure. On the contrary, he is very much an objective outsider who comes to the job with a degree of expertise and insight that is extremely valuable.

Ms Carmel Foley, as I stated, has done a very good job as one of the commissioners. Two of the outgoing commissioners were not available or interested in reappointment. As the Garda Síochána Ombudsman Commission has worked well and has not experienced some of the difficulties that have given rise to some trouble and publicity in Northern Ireland with regard to its ombudsman in the policing area, Ms Foley provides very valuable continuity from the outgoing commission. My judgment was that it was important that someone of expertise could provide this continuity link to a job that has been well done by the original persons appointed. The third appointee has been a civil servant in the Garda Síochána Ombudsman Commission and part of what has been a successful organisation. He has the insight of knowing how the commission works and brings to the position of commissioner other skills which I detailed. I would hope that members would appreciate that a very open and objective assessment was undertaken as to the appropriateness of who should be appointed.

There would have been within the group who made applications some other individuals who may have served equally well on the commission but these three individuals were seen to be the best skilled, based on experience they have had to date and their contributions to date in different positions, and best skilled to not merely maintain continuity but, now the commission is bedded down in its work, to look at how best to further develop the commission in the public interest, in the interests of the Garda and in the interest of ensuring the commission can fully, comprehensively and effectively fulfil its statutory remit.

I thank the Minister. I did not mean to cast any doubt on the appointments. They are excellent. My only issue is that the previous three appointments involved people from well outside the Civil Service or anything related to the Garda. One person's parent had been a garda. Was there a break with that policy or were the three best people selected?

We simply looked at the three best candidates. One of the previous members of the commission was a former editor of The Irish Times at the time of the appointment. One would have wondered what skills he would have brought to the position. The commission worked extremely well and I genuinely thanked him and his colleague, Mr. Gallagher, for the tremendous work they have done. We believe the three nominees will bring skills, depths and knowledge to the job that is required and will ensure that full public confidence is maintained in the commission.

I welcome the three appointments and the process, in particular. I want to pay tribute to Mr. Conor Brady, Mr. Dermot Gallagher and Ms Carmel Foley for the work they did. The body was only established in 2005 but there is 60% awareness of it. It has handled 10,900 complaints, which is about 50 a week. That is a tribute to the outgoing Commissioner.

I do not know Mr. Kieran Fitzgerald but he has done a very good job. I presume he will be replaced on the publicity side in the commission in order that awareness can be kept up.

I am assuming that as well. There is no suggestion that would not be the case.

The figures state 6,000 cases were admitted, 2,500 were referred to the Commissioner and a further 206 were referred to the DPP or Commissioner, a total of approximately 2,700. What happened to the balance? Were they dealt with by the ombudsman, are they still being dealt with or was no further action required?

I do not have an immediate answer for the Deputy on that because we have been dealing with the appointments. The answer to that will be in the report that will be published shortly. Obviously some of these would be ongoing and it may well be that arising out of some of those the conclusion was that no further action was required and no difficulty arose. I do not have the exact numbers on that and I do not want to any way mislead the Deputy.

We are dealing with the appointment of the commission and not the details of the work. There may be another forum for that.

I welcome the appointments and wish the three new members every success.

I welcome the Minister to the committee. A number of people have said to me they would like to see the people involved in the commission coming from outside the areas of justice and the Civil Service. How does the Minister respond to that?

Some 35% of cases concerned allegations of a criminal nature. Does the Minister think that is a very high number? On minor matters, I hope the commission is not dealing with a lot of silly matters when there are huge problems with policing. I spoke to a constituent during the week who was not happy with the Garda response. She was being intimidated by gangs.

We are dealing with the appointments. I will allow the Deputy to continue. The Minister may not have the information with him today. It might be more useful if the Deputy deals with that at a later stage.

I ask the Minister to comment on criminal allegations and minor matters.

First, the Garda Síochána Ombudsman Commission may get a variety of different complaints from the serious to the minor. It has within its statutory powers the ability to determine the extent to which a complaint should be addressed and followed up. It is clear from the information given there are occasions when a complaint is made it is instrumental in resolving the issue. It may not necessarily always require a major investigation. Ultimately, it has to determine, independently of Government and the Garda Síochána, the extent to which any complaint should be investigated and the extent to which it is serious or not.

I do not want to get into trouble with the Chairman. Between 9 May 2007 and 30 September 2011, 111 files were submitted to the DPP. Of course, submitting a file to the DPP where there are allegations of criminal misconduct means it is then a matter for the DPP to independently determine whether a prosecution should be taken. The members will have seen only very recently there was a prosecution successfully taken in a particular matter by the Garda Síochána Ombudsman Commission. I will not enter into that today. If it concludes that there has been an allegation of criminality by a member of the Garda Síochána that is substantially supported by the information provided to it, it then has an obligation to refer the file to the DPP.

To come back to the first question, the question asked by Deputy McGrath is similar to that of Senator Bacik. This is not about appointing civil servants to a body. Ms Carmel Foley was not a civil servant in that sense. She was appointed to this body in 2005. I have already explained why we have continued her employment.

In the context of the other two appointees, one initially came from the police service in the United Kingdom, was appointed to the Garda Inspectorate and has played a very important role there. The person has not been part of what I would describe as the Irish Civil Service in any sense of the term. He has been doing a job as one of the independent members of the Garda Inspectorate that takes oversight generally on how the force functions.

The other appointee was employed within the Garda Síochána Ombudsman Commission. He had a previous career outside that area. During his time there he has continued to move to a position where he will have a doctorate in an area which is of particular assistance in ensuring organisational matters are dealt with efficiently.

Each individual comes to the position with a skill set background. It is not about a policy of excluding anybody from appointment. The background assessment as to who should be appointed was based on an assessment of who were the best candidates with the best skill set of experience to bring to the job.

I apologise for being late. I was attending another meeting. I read the submission from the Department on the comprehensive review on public expenditure which was released-----

We are dealing with the appointment of the members and not the work of the commission. I want to be fair to everybody because we may return to the issue at a later stage.

Deputy O'Brien may have been absent when I indicated that a report will be published shortly on the work of the first commission during its term of office, which will provide detail on the work undertaken and statistical background information. I expect the committee will have a discussion on the report some time early in the new year.

Will that report deal with any proposals to restructure the commission model? Issues have been raised in regard to the scope of its remit. Will all of that be covered in the report?

No, the report will deal with the work done by the commission. Any question of changes in its remit would be a matter for legislation. When it comes to its functioning and the manner in which it undertakes its statutory obligations, the three commissioners, when appointed, may take a view as to how to develop that functioning further from its existing base and the very good work done in the early years of the commission's operation.

I thank the Minister. Is the motion agreed? Agreed.

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