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JOINT COMMITTEE ON JUSTICE, DEFENCE AND EQUALITY debate -
Friday, 13 Jul 2012

Property Services Appeals Board: Discussion with Chairman Designate

The purpose of today's meeting is to have a discussion with the chairperson designate of the Property Services Appeals Board. I welcome Ms Patricia O'Connor on behalf of the committee. This engagement is a new process for committees as a means of keeping everyone informed and it provides the opportunity to get to know Ms O'Connor. I ask that all mobile telephones be switched off because silent mode is not sufficient and interferes with the sound recording system.

By virtue of section 17(2)(l) of the Defamation Act 2009, witnesses are protected by absolute privilege in respect of the evidence they are to give this committee. If a witness is directed by the committee to cease giving evidence in relation to a particular matter and the witness continues to so do, the witness is entitled thereafter only to a qualified privilege in respect of his or her evidence. Witnesses are directed that only evidence connected with the subject matter of these proceedings is to be given and witnesses are asked to respect the parliamentary practice to the effect that, where possible, they should not criticise nor make charges against any person or persons or entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable.

Members are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the House or an official by name in such a way as to make him or her identifiable.

I invite Ms O'Connor to make her opening contribution.

Ms Patricia O’Connor

I thank the committee for the opportunity to address it. I will describe my professional background for the information of the committee. I qualified as a solicitor in 1994 and I have practised in Limerick since then. I am originally from County Kerry. Since 1994, in addition to my practice, I have also acted as a lecturer in law in the areas of the built environment, estate agency and auctioneering. I have lectured on property valuation and quantity surveying courses in Limerick Institute of Technology and I also lectured with the Institute of Professional Auctioneers and Valuers up to 2005. I have acted as an assistant internal examiner with the Law Society. I have acted as adjudicator with the Private Residential Tenancies Board for a period from 2007 to 2010 and I am currently a member of the Valuation Tribunal.

I am honoured to have been nominated as chairperson designate of the Property Services Appeals Board. This is a new entity so I am describing how it will work in the future rather than any current work. The Act establishing the Property Services Regulatory Authority was enacted last December. This Act also provides for the establishment of the Property Services Appeals Board which is a body independent of the Property Regulatory Authority. Its purpose is to hear and determine appeals against certain decisions of the Property Services Regulatory Authority. The committee will note I refer to certain decisions; not every decision of the Property Services Regulatory Authority may be appealed to our agency and there are reasons why this is so.

I have set out in my presentation to the committee the decisions of the authority which may be appealed to the Property Services Appeals Board. This list is not exhaustive because in the future it may be decided on foot of court proceedings that certain other decisions may be appealed to it. The list currently includes, a refusal to issue a licence on grounds other than factual grounds; a decision not to have complaint investigated on grounds that it is not made in good faith, is frivolous or vexatious or could be resolved by informal means; a decision to impose a minor sanction on a licensee; a decision to dismiss a complaint following investigation by an inspector; a refusal to make a grant out of the property services compensation fund or a decision in relation to the amount of any such grant.

The Property Services Regulatory Authority will make its decisions on matters and it has its own disciplinary board which is separate from the appeals board and any person who is dissatisfied with a decision in those categories may within a period of 30 days appeal to the Property Services Appeals Board.

Once a case is heard the appeals board may either confirm the decision of the authority, send the case back to the authority with recommendations for review, with or without direction for reconsideration, or it may substitute its determination of the decision and substitute an alternative penalty. Anyone dissatisfied with the outcome of an appeal decision from the Property Services Appeals Board may appeal to the High Court on a point of law. This is a further redress.

This body is a completely new entity and we do not know what will be the level of appeals which will be presented. This will become known when licences are issued and the regulatory authority decides to grant or refuse licences. We do not know yet what will be the number of cases. We may need to have meetings once a month or three times a year but this depends on the number of cases. I have met the departmental officials and the team who will be dealing with these matters. They are experienced staff and are very enthusiastic about the provisions of the Act.

I will be happy to return to the committee when the agency has been dealing with cases. At the moment this is all the information I can give the committee.

I welcome Ms O'Connor and I wish her well in her appointment. Ms O'Connor has previous experience of working with a newly established function. Will those skills be of assistance in her new role with this start-up body?

Ms Patricia O’Connor

It is another start-up situation. Having worked in the private sector as a self-employed worker I had to undergo a significant learning curve. I had no previous experience of public procurement. What I learned was that it was advisable to do any new job properly and ensure the work was done properly. It is clearly much better to have the correct system in place from the start rather than attempting to change it months or years later. The answer to the Deputy's question is that what I hope to bring from that is a clear head, for want of a better expression, and the ability to sit down with the team in the Department of Justice and Equality which will be dealing with this and iron out any kink there may be before they arise and know exactly where we are going in order that when people start to file their appeals with us we have a system that is streamlined, smooth and efficient and one in which they can have confidence. What we do not want is that, when a person files his or her appeal with us, it appears we do not have the correct system in place. We want an open and transparent system in which all the stakeholders can have confidence.

Does any other member wish to comment?

I have a comment. I welcome Ms Patricia O'Connor to the committee and wish her well. I have read her curriculum vitae and I am impressed with her background. It might be beneficial if she were to appear before the committee at a later stage when she has dealt with a number of issues. That would give us more of an insight into the process involved. I agree with her that when one starts something new, one must do it properly and efficiently. I wish her well.

Ms Patricia O’Connor

I will be happy to come back before the committee.

The Property Services Appeals board is a new body and Ms O'Connor is the first person to be nominated to be chair of it. How many staff are involved in the operation of the board and in terms of an inspectorate how many people are working for it?

Ms Patricia O’Connor

That is not determined at present. The current staff are from the Department of Justice and Equality and a secretary has been appointed to the board. As regards board members, there will be five including myself. We are very much feeling our way at present and if we get a huge number of appeals, we will need to bring in more people. At present, however, we are confident that we can deal with whatever comes in.

What is the position regarding the appointment of the other board members?

Ms Patricia O’Connor

I believe that names will be submitted to the Cabinet on Tuesday and, therefore, they will be announced in due course.

Does Ms O'Connor have a say in any of that?

Ms Patricia O’Connor

No. It is not my area.

That was short and sweet. We are nearing the end of term and this has been a very busy committee. We have not had a large attendance of members this morning but I do not think people expected there would be a major confrontation or anything like that.

Ms Patricia O’Connor

I hoped there would not be.

No, not at all. I thank Ms O'Connor very much for coming here today, going through this procedure with us and giving us an opportunity to say hello to her. No doubt we will meet her again at a later stage when she has settled in. We might invite her back in six or eight months to give us an update on how things are going. I take this opportunity to wish her and the new board all the best in the important work they are doing.

Ms Patricia O’Connor

Thank you, Chairman.

The next meeting of the committee is next Wednesday to consider the committee's response to the Minister on the heads of the Irish human rights and equality commission Bill. I ask members to forward any observation they have on that to the clerk for collation by close of business today. Also I remind members that we are due to visit Wheatfield on Tuesday.

The joint committee adjourned at 10.25 a.m. until 2.30 p.m. on Wednesday, 18 July 2012.
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