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Joint Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality debate -
Wednesday, 25 Jun 2014

Constitutional Protection of Economic, Social and Cultural Rights: Amnesty International Ireland

On behalf of the committee I welcome Mr. Colm O'Gorman, executive director, and Ms Pia Janning, legal officer, from Amnesty International Ireland and thank them for giving their time to attend the meeting. The format of the meeting is that you will be invited to make an opening statement of approximately five minutes duration, followed by a question and answer session.

I draw witnesses' attention to the fact that by virtue of section 17(2)(l) of the Defamation Act 2009, you are protected by absolute privilege in respect of your evidence to the committee. However, if you are directed by the committee to cease giving evidence on a particular matter and you continue to do so, you are entitled thereafter only to qualified privilege in respect of your evidence. You are directed that only evidence connected with the subject matter of these proceedings is to be given and asked to respect the parliamentary practice to the effect that, where possible, you should not criticise or make charges against any person, persons or entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable. Members are reminded that under the salient rulings of the Chair they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the Houses or an official either by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable.

I invite Mr. O'Gorman to make his opening remarks.

Mr. Colm O'Gorman

We are grateful to the committee for the invitation to discuss the issue of giving greater legal protection to economic, social and cultural, ESC, rights in Ireland.

As members are aware, the Constitutional Convention recommended in February this year, by an overwhelming 85% majority, that the Constitution should be amended to enhance protection of economic, social and cultural rights. ESC rights are those human rights relating broadly to issues such as health care, education and an adequate standard of living, which includes the right to adequate housing. Along with civil and political rights they are part of the international body of human rights. Amnesty International Ireland has launched a report, and the Chairman attended the launch, "Bringing ESC Rights Home", a copy of which has been circulated electronically to the committee. We also have printed copies for the members. This report provides greater detail on some of the points we will outline today.

Legal protection of ESC rights is by no means a new or radical idea in the Irish context, or globally, and is very much within our political tradition. In 1937 the framers of the Constitution put some of these rights in Bunreacht na hÉireann before they were ever set out in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, UDHR. The UDHR declaration was drafted in 1948 and makes no distinction between civil and political or ESC rights. Over the years, legal protection has also been granted to ESC rights in various treaties which Ireland has signed up to, both at an international and regional level. For example, the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights 1966 is a creation of states themselves, and was intended to be binding. Ireland ratified the ICESCR convention in 1989 thereby agreeing to be bound by its provisions. At a regional level, the European Social Charter also affords protection for these rights, along with the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union.

Let me answer why ESC rights should be made enforceable. First, at the heart of human rights law, and expressly stated in the UDHR, is the right of everyone to an effective remedy. The Committee on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights, the UN expert body charged with overseeing the implementation of the ICESCR, has said that it would be difficult for a State which has signed up to the ICESCR, to justify its failure to provide any domestic legal remedies for the violation of ESC rights.

The right to a remedy does not mean that everyone should be able to run to the courts whenever something goes wrong. This is not what human rights law envisages. Remedies take different forms. We already have some bodies and structures in place in Ireland, such as the Irish Human Rights Commission, the Ombudsman, the Equality Tribunal or administrative complaints mechanisms. Parliamentary committees also play a vital accountability role. For example, in Amnesty International's report, we highlight the distinctive role that the parliament's constitutional law committee plays in Finland. These bodies and processes play a crucial part in ensuring Government accountability but operate within specific mandates and limitations. None can take the place of judicial remedies and people should have access to the courts, as a last resort. International bodies and procedures have on several occasions recommended that ESC rights be made legally enforceable in Ireland yet no steps have been taken in this direction. As Justice Albie Sachs, former judge of the South African Constitutional Court says in the foreword of our report, the Constitutional Convention recommendation is the golden opportunity for the Government to make this happen.

Second, making ESC rights legally enforceable provides individuals and groups with a means to hold the Government to account. ESC rights litigation can also function as a corrective mechanism for the political system, shining a light on issues that otherwise might not be addressed. Case law on ESC rights from other states gives examples of how neglected issues have been brought to the fore and resulted in positive changes in law and policy, therefore directly impacting on people's lives.

Third, ESC rights are as much a tool for government as they are for civil society. When we talk about accountability we are not simply talking about a means through which we react to or repair failure or wrongdoing. Accountability is a vital tool for those charged with making complex and difficult decisions; one that can guide and strengthen decision-making and the development of law, policy and practice. ESC rights are outcomes focused on but also concerned with the process that is used to achieve same. For example, ESC rights require the Government to take steps, over time, to deliver on those ESC rights outcomes identified in international law. They do not specify the policies that must be pursued to deliver on these rights. They require that the Government adopts appropriate processes for planning and decision-making and that decisions are made in a transparent, participatory manner, using reliable evidence.

Government decisions and expenditure must be geared towards those outcomes. For example, one outcome is that everyone has access to health care without discrimination, when they need it. This includes affordability of health care. How that is done is up to Government. For example, human rights law does not prescribe public health provision over private only that all are able to access it without discrimination.

Accountability has become the byword in recent years for the promise to do things differently, to make better decisions and deliver better outcomes. If we look at how courts have protected ESC rights in other countries, like Latvia and Germany, we see a focus on good process. The courts ask the question whether decisions have been made in a transparent manner, using reliable evidence. Real accountability, also requires that decision-makers consult with those affected by their decisions and when implementing these decisions. In this way accountability becomes a vital tool to inform good decision-making and ensure that policy decisions serve the people they most affect.

Fourth, making ESC rights legally enforceable, would show that the Government attaches the same importance to all human rights, civil and political, economic, social and cultural. While we are slowly emerging from the economic crisis, this is still not felt by many people who are currently affected by issues such as access to health care, and adequate housing. Showing a strong commitment to the protection of ESC rights has never been more important and what better way to do this than in the Constitution, the basic law of the State?

Finally, making these rights legally enforceable, would also bring Ireland in line with a growing trend among many countries to legally recognise ESC rights as enforceable. Around the world the right to health care is included in 133 constitutions, the right to housing in 81 constitutions, the right to work in 136 constitutions, to name but a few examples.

What is stopping us? In Ireland, as sometimes in other countries, myths and misconceptions around ESC rights have hindered their application in the domestic legal system. These myths and misconceptions often relate to the nature and definition of ESC rights and the resources involved. In the interest of brevity I shall only speak about two misconceptions here but we address more of them in chapter 2 of our report.

Regarding resources, there is a fear among some that ESC rights require huge levels of resources and that it is a reason they should not be given legal protection. International human rights law recognises that no government has infinite resources and cannot be held to an impossible standard of perfection. Important checks and balances are put in place. Under the ICESCR, states must progressively realise the rights in the convention, subject to the maximum amount of resources available to it. This phrasing is directly reflected in the full recommendation of the Constitutional Convention. These may seem like abstract concepts, but the UN Committee on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights has laid out clearly what the concepts mean in practice. This is outlined further in our report. It is not about spending more and more but ensuring that the resources we do have are used appropriately, in a transparent and evidence-based way, delivering equitable outcomes for all.

A particularly prominent argument against enforceable ESC rights is the separation of powers argument. It is claimed that legally enforceable ESC rights distort democracy as the Judiciary become unelected decision-makers. ESC rights throw up complex and difficult questions. But if we look at the body of case law on ESC rights from other jurisdictions, it shows that courts have found ways of dealing with these issues that are appropriate to their respective legal system and respects the separation of powers. For example, the South African Constitutional Court has adjudicated on many ESC rights cases but limited its judgments to its appropriate role. It has made clear that when considering the reasonableness of state actions, it would not look at whether better measures could have been adopted or public money could have been better spent but whether the measures that were adopted were reasonable. In our report we show how countries such as Portugal, Finland and Germany have enforced ESC rights. Different approaches can be adopted in different national contexts. These approaches are outlined in greater detail in our report. It is clear that it is possible to adjudicate on ESC rights in a way that respects the separation of powers between the different branches of government. Examples from these jurisdictions also show that it is possible to take what might appear to be abstract ESC rights related obligations and apply them in domestic legal systems. There is no reason that the same cannot be done in Ireland.

In conclusion, time and again we have seen the public support that exists for ESC rights. In polls carried out by Red C on behalf of Amnesty International this year, 71% of people polled believed that the Constitution should be amended to protect additional ESC rights. The Constitutional Convention overwhelmingly voted in favour of strengthening protection of ESC rights in Bunreacht na hÉireann. Also, according to the terms of reference of the convention, the Government now has until the end of July to respond to its recommendation.

Amnesty International Ireland urges the this committee to press for the Government's acceptance of the recommendation made by the Constitutional Convention on ESC rights, that the Government engages robustly on the issue, and that it ensures full transparency and clear timelines in any measures adopted to take the matter forward. Giving greater legal protection to ESC rights in the Constitution would not cure all our ills. It would require that the Government designs systems that prioritise good, evidence-based decisions, in the interest of all our people.

I thank Mr. O'Gorman for his presentation and I call Deputy Corcoran Kennedy.

I welcome Mr. O'Gorman and thank him for sending us the hard copy of the document which, I confess, I have not read from cover to cover. I have a question on item number two. Mr. O'Gorman referred to how neglected issues have been brought to the fore in other countries. Will he give practical examples of what happened in other countries?

Mr. Colm O'Gorman

Probably the best example would be the recent Portuguese one.

Ms Pia Janning

If we look at the South African example, which I do not really like to give because it is better to talk about European countries, it is really strong. There was a huge campaign there called the Treatment Action Campaign which was campaigning for the right to health for persons with HIV and AIDS. There was huge denial on the part of the state there that HIV even existed. This case was brought before the South Africa constitutional court claiming that because antiretroviral drugs were not rolled out on a nationwide basis but only in certain states, this was unreasonable and that there was no reason it should not be rolled out on a nationwide basis. The Treatment Action Campaign won its case and it effected a massive change in how the government viewed and dealt with HIV and it saved tens of thousands of lives. Antiretroviral drugs were actually rolled out on a national basis. That is just one example.

I welcome Mr. O'Gorman and Ms Janning. Mr. O'Gorman said this was strongly supported at the Constitutional Convention and that 85% of the delegates supported it. Mr. O'Gorman said the right to a remedy does not mean that everyone should be able to run to the courts. He mentioned the Irish Human Rights Commission, the Ombudsman and the Equality Tribunal. If we bring in the proposals about which he spoke, will these existing jobs no longer be required? What is the difference between having them and implementing what he is asking for?

Mr. Colm O'Gorman

Does the Deputy mean that the Irish Human Rights Commission, the Ombudsman, etc., could be replaced by the courts?

Mr. Colm O'Gorman

That would be problematic on lots of levels not least because of the kind of pressure that might place on the legal system but also the fact it means one is immediately rushing to the courts to address things which should initially be dealt with perhaps through an administrative process and then through a watchdog-type body, whether an oversight body such as the Irish Human Rights Commission or the Ombudsman. When we talk about accountability and effective remedy, it does not mean that people find themselves taking the State to court on a routine or regular basis but that a whole range of remedies are provided, starting with the administrative which are meant to be corrective and engaged to identify and address problems rather than an almost a punitive mechanism where the State is being brought to court in some way.

The reason we flagged that is that first of all, it is a critical point and a really core principle but also to try to encourage decision-makers to engage with the concept that these kinds of processes support effective decision-making. They are revelatory rather than adversarial, so we reveal where a difficulty or an issue arises and an approach is adopted to it which is about identifying and constructively engaging to address an issue and to inform the development of a solution. Of course, in situations where a difficulty is intractable and where somebody, therefore, needs a remedy before the courts, that needs to be available to people as a last resort.

It is important to recognise that the Irish Constitution has ESC rights provisions in it. There has been jurisprudence on ESC rights in the Irish courts. If one looks at some of the cases taken over the years on the right to education, for instance, it demonstrates the Irish courts can adopt an approach, adjudicate on these issues, deal with complex issues and can engage effectively within their role to reveal where problems are and then it is back to the Legislature - the Oireachtas - to address whatever those difficulties might be.

Mr. O'Gorman mentioned South Africa and that Justice Albie Sachs, former judge of the South African Constitutional Court, said that the Constitutional Convention recommendation is the golden opportunity for the Government to make this happen. What would Mr. O'Gorman say to the cynical side of me that says that South Africa is still steeped in inequality, poverty and lack of rights for its citizens? A friend of mine was in South Africa last week and he said that the poverty he saw, despite Mandela and the vision, was absolutely shocking. In terms of examples of good practice where ESC rights are implemented, I think Mr. O'Gorman mentioned Portugal, Germany-----

Mr. Colm O'Gorman

Portugal, Latvia and Germany.

To go back to the point about South Africa, does Mr. O'Gorman not think it undermines his argument?

Mr. Colm O'Gorman

Not at all. Amnesty International is not here to be a cheerleader for any particular state and for the approach it adopts but if we look at the role the constitutional court has played when it has been asked to adjudicate on ESC rights issues, whether housing or health rights, one sees the outcomes for people, for effective policy-making and for service delivery have been incredibly positive. That is not, in any way, to take away from the very significant rights issues that still exist in South Africa, including economic, social and cultural rights issues. Flagging South Africa as an example is to flag a constitutional model that has been able to work from a judicial perspective - a court perspective - and which has demonstrated an ability to deal with incredibly complex issues from very broad issues such as the supply of antiretroviral drugs to combat HIV to very specific issues such as a case taken by an individual who felt he was being denied his right to health because he could not access dialysis. The court made a challenging but really thoughtful decision to say that it is reasonable for the State not to provide a health service to this individual on the basis of likely outcome for the individual and scarce resources and that it had an obligation to consider, and it was reasonable for the State to consider, the broad needs that existed and that might mean that an individual case's specific needs were not addressed. We flagged the legal process in South Africa as a really solid example of how courts can address these issues without it leading to separation of powers issues for states.

Deputy Finian McGrath: My next question is about the resource issue. There is fear out there. I agree with everything in Mr. O'Gorman's submission but the big question I must ask as a legislators is about the resource issue. Granting ESC rights requires high levels of resources. Our country is broke and does not have the resources, which I come across every day in that I must look for a service for a person with a disability but the services have been reduced. One must face that reality. Is this not a huge cost issue?

Mr. Colm O'Gorman

I actually think that is the compelling reason we need this framework now. It is precisely when one has fewer resources that one needs a framework that very clearly identifies the criteria we use to decide how one will spend those resources. It is precisely at a time when one has limited resources that one needs really good decision-making - evidence-based, outcomes-focused and transparent decision-making. That is exactly what one needs when one has limited resources.

Human rights law does not say that states must sign a blank cheque but what is says instead is that within the limits of available resources, there is a framework which has to be applied in how states decide how they are going to allocate those resources. It is about minimum obligations.

When we talk about minimum obligations in that regard, we need to remember that this convention was adopted in 1966. Sometimes people talk about ESC obligations as if these are wildly aspirational, way off concepts. These were minimum obligations states agreed were appropriate in 1966 when the world was a much poorer place. Countries like Ireland were much poorer. These are standards Ireland signed up to in 1989. I left Ireland in the flood of emigration in 1986 and at a time when Ireland had a very depressed economy and yet in 1989, Ireland believed that it could sign up to the binding obligations.

Consequently, that argument based on limited resources is compromised for many reasons but fundamentally because it is when one has fewer resources that one needs better decision-making. One needs transparency, clarity of purpose, outcome-focused decisions and decisions that are solidly grounded in evidence. This is what a human rights framework would require. Governments decide what they can do within the maximum of available resources and the focus is on the process that is used, not the amount of money involved.

Mr. O'Gorman thinks it would lead to the prioritisation of resources and bring out the best and most effective-----

Mr. Colm O'Gorman

Yes.

I will give Mr. O'Gorman the example of an adult with an intellectual disability whose parents, one of whom has dementia, are in their 80s and 90s and for whom a residential place is sought. If a problem arises about getting that place, while doing their usual day jobs in here all Members must approach the Minister and must lobby. Under the situation outlined by Mr. O'Gorman, that person would be guaranteed a proper place.

Mr. Colm O'Gorman

No.

A proper service.

Mr. Colm O'Gorman

It depends on what the Deputy means by a proper place. It would mean the failure to provide a service to that individual could be challengeable ultimately before the courts if it could be demonstrated that in how the State allocated resources and provided services, it had not done the best it could to realise the rights of that individual within the limits of available resources and the competition that existed for resources. I am not talking about an individual or micro approach to rights but about a broad process.

I take Mr. O'Gorman's point. However, would such a person with an intellectual disability not have certain legal rights to a service?

Ms Pia Janning

Absolutely. If we come back to the particular case in South Africa that Mr. O'Gorman mentioned about the dialysis treatment, it concerned a man who could not get access to dialysis treatment because there was a scarcity of resources and at the time, the hospital had in place guidelines stating who would and would not qualify for dialysis treatment. This particular man did not qualify and without that dialysis treatment, he ultimately would die. However, the court held that the guidelines that had been put in place were reasonable because the state was under such pressure in terms of resources. Moreover, were those kinds of guidelines to be changed to apply to this particular man and to others in his position, it would then require a huge increase in the health budget, which simply was not reasonable. The judgment was that this decision had been made in good faith and as no more resources were available, there was nothing the court could do. However, were these rights to be included in the Constitution in the first instance, as Mr. O'Gorman has stated, on the macro level there would be better decision-making that was evidence-based and which had in place indicators, benchmarks and timeframes, as well as engagement by civil society and an understanding on its part as to what the Government was doing and why it was doing it. Second, on an individual level, there of course could be cases in which an individual might end up going to the courts if he or she thought his or her particular right had been violated. This has been seen in respect of primary school education in Ireland previously and the concept is not completely foreign in Ireland, as it has happened in the context of primary school education.

I thank the Chairman and I thank Amnesty International for the submission.

I also have a question in this regard. Correct me if I am wrong but has anyone come up with the wording for this constitutional amendment?

Mr. Colm O'Gorman

Not as yet.

While the suggestion is that the economic, social and cultural, ESC, rights must be strengthened in the Constitution, any wording that might be inserted into the Constitution is yet to be seen, even though Article 45 contains what I believe are called directive rights.

Ms Pia Janning

The Constitutional Convention recommended using the wording used in the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights. These state the state shall progressively realise these rights, subject to the maximum available resources and that these rights shall be enforceable by the courts. The Constitutional Convention also recommended that certain rights, such as those pertaining to housing, social security and access to health care should be referenced explicitly within the Constitution.

Mr. Colm O'Gorman

Moreover, as the Chairman is aware, the convention delegates did not ever propose specific wordings on reform. They made recommendations for reform.

Mr. Colm O'Gorman

Neither would Amnesty International ever make recommendations with regard to specific wording, as that is a matter for the Government and for the State.

Yes. Mr. O'Gorman also has stated the Government must respond to the convention before some time in July.

Mr. Colm O'Gorman

Yes, there normally is a four-month timeframe for a Government response. As I believe a number of responses to other recommendations remain outstanding, it is unclear as yet as to when the Government will respond to this recommendation.

Amnesty International also mentioned that the optional protocol to the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights should be ratified, as should the third optional protocol to the Convention on the Rights of the Child. I am aware that the optional protocol to the Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities is on the way because the assisted decision-making legislation is going through at present and it is one of the big issues that must be got through before that can be ratified.

Ms Pia Janning

That is just the treaty and then there is an additional optional protocol the State also can ratify which would allow people to make a complaint to the United Nations if they thought their rights under the treaty had not been upheld and if they had exhausted all domestic remedies in Ireland.

I congratulate Amnesty International on the work it has done on this excellent report, which is a good read and which contains a great deal of work. I also thank the witnesses for their attendance.

The joint committee went into private session at 3.55 p.m. and adjourned at 4.20 p.m. until noon on Wednesday, 2 July 2014.
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