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JOINT COMMITTEE ON JUSTICE, EQUALITY, DEFENCE AND WOMEN’S RIGHTS debate -
Tuesday, 20 May 2003

Vol. 1 No. 25

Irish Human Rights Commission: Presentation.

The numbers attending the committee are not great due to the large volume of business in the Houses today. I assure the delegation, that what we have here is the quality.

I welcome Professor Maurice Manning, President of the Irish Human Rights Commission and Ms Suzanne Egan, Commissioner of the Irish Human Rights Commission. I also welcome Ms Jane Liddy of the commission, who is in the public gallery.

It is an opportune time to discuss the recent legal judgments and the issues that have surrounded the various carrier liability matters. We have had a number of discussions with other bodies such as Amnesty International, the ICCL, trade unions, Comhlámh and other groups. I presume the commission has some statutory responsibility in this area.

Professor Maurice Manning

Once again we are pleased to be here and have the opportunity to discuss these issues. As the Chairman mentioned, in accordance with our founding legislation, we have the responsibility to examine all proposed legislation with a view to strengthening and protecting human rights. Since the last time we appeared before the committee to discuss the European Convention on Human Rights Bill, our strategic plan was published. In that we identified the need for us as a human rights commission to keep under careful review the law and practice on asylum and refugees. We made it one our priorities to contribute actively to the debate on this Immigration Bill.

We welcome the opportunity to voice certain concerns we have with the current Bill as it affects the rights of persons seeking asylum in the State. We also welcome the opportunity to advise the committee of the Commission's view on the implications of the recent Supreme Court decision in the DL v the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform case. In particular, we are concerned about the possible effects of this decision on law and practice in the State with regard to deportation and readmission to the asylum procedure. I ask my colleague, Ms Suzanne Egan, a lecturer in human rights law at University College, Dublin and a member of the commission, to elaborate on our concerns.

Ms Suzanne Egan

I will deal first with the Immigration Bill 2003 and then move to the DL decision. The two contentious issues from the human rights perspective with respect to the Immigration Bill are contained in sections 2 and 6.

Section 2 provides for carrier sanctions. Along with the UN High Commissioner for Refugees and with other organisations working specifically in the area of asylum - I understand they made submissions to the committee last week - the commission is concerned about the potential impact of carrier sanctions on persons seeking asylum in the State. Such sanctions thwart legitimate claims to asylum by impeding access to the territory of the State on the basis that a person does not have adequate travel documentation. It is a well rehearsed fact that asylum seekers do not always or necessarily possess adequate travel documentation.

The commission, along with other organisations, is concerned about the imposition of these sanctions in that they might potentially breach a number of fundamental principles of international refugee protection, specifically Article 14 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights which provides that everyone has the right to seek and enjoy asylum form persecution. Article 31 of the Convention relating to the Status of Refugees, to which this State is party, provides that contracting states shall not impose penalties on refugees, which by definition includes asylum seekers, who have entered the territory illegally. Article 33 of that convention provides for the all important guarantee of non -refoulement, whereby a contracting state is obliged not to send a person back in any manner whatsoever to the country in which he or she fears persecution on account of particular stated grounds.

It has been argued persuasively elsewhere that carrier sanctions where applied to legitimate asylum seekers indirectly breach a State's obligation under Article 33 of that convention. A direct breach would occur if a State were to send a person who had reached the territory back to a country of persecution. An indirect breach, which I am speaking of here, applies in the sense of preventing access to the territory in order to make the asylum claim. Specifically, the requirement not to send a person back to a country "in any manner whatsoever" are the very pertinent words of the convention.

As far back as 1967, the Council of Europe recognised the invidious nature of certain practices which impede asylum seekers from claiming asylum in a member state. In a resolution on asylum to persons in danger of persecution, the Committee of Ministers recommended:

Governments should ensure that no one shall be subjected to refusal of admission at the frontier, rejection, expulsion or any other measure which would have the result of compelling him to return to or remain in a territory where he would be in danger of persecution for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of particular social group or political opinion.

Presumably, the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform also recognised that carriers liability should not apply in respect of asylum seekers and refugees by including an amendment to the current Bill in section 2 (9). This amendment, as Members are aware, provides that section 2 is without prejudice to those sections of the Refugee Act 1996 which allow a person who has arrived in the State to seek refugee status and to the discretion of the Minister to admit to the State a person whom the Minister considers in need of protection.

In the Human Rights Commission's view, this amendment does not go far enough to preclude the possibility of a carrier refusing permission outside the State to an asylum seeker to travel to this State on the basis that he or she does not possess travel documentation. That possibility would be precluded only by specifying explicitly in section 2 (1)(c) that the obligation on carriers to ensure non-nationals on board its vehicles possess adequate travel documentation does not apply in the case of a non-national seeking or proposing to seek asylum in the State. The Human Rights Commission therefore urges this committee to consider favourably an amendment to section 2(1)(c) whereby the words “other than a non-national seeking or proposing to seek asylum in the State” would be inserted in the first line after the word “non-national” and before the words “on board”.

The Human Rights Commission is very concerned about the provisions in section 6 which would deem an application to be withdrawn due to a failure of an asylum applicant to comply with procedural requirements, for example, where an asylum seeker fails to inform the Refugee Applications Commissioner of his or her address within five working days of the making of the asylum application. Section 6 also provides that a determination of refusal to grant refugee status can be made in respect of applications deemed to be so withdrawn, and a refusal of refugee status in those circumstances will not be subject to appeal. Similar provisions apply in the context of persons who fail to present for first-instance interviews or appeals.

The Human Rights Commission appreciates the problems posed for the administration of the asylum procedure by the failure of applicants to comply fully with these procedural requirements. However, the Bill goes too far by providing that a failure to abide by procedural requirements can result in substantive rejection of an asylum claim.

Arguably, this provision might conflict with Article 3 of the European Convention on Human Rights, which provides for the right that no one shall be subjected to torture, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishments. In a case against Turkey in 2000, known as Jabari v. Turkey, the European Court of Human Rights held that Turkey was in breach of Articles 3 and 13 of the Convention by reason of a provision in domestic law which required an asylum seeker to submit his or her application to the police within five days of arrival in Turkey. Under Turkish law, failure to do so meant that the person could not be accepted as a refugee, and the Court of Human Rights in Jabari was considering the application of this law to a woman who had failed to comply with this requirement, and accordingly faced return to Iran, where she feared being sentenced to death by stoning, for committing adultery in that country. The Court of Human Rights held that if Turkey deported her to Iran, it would be acting in violation of Article 3 of the Convention, which provides for the right to be free from torture, inhuman and degrading treatments. The court judgment states that “the automatic and mechanical application of such a short time limit for submitting an asylum application must be considered at variance with the protections of the fundamental value embodied in Article 3 of the Convention.”

The Court of Human Rights also found a breach of Article 13 of the Convention, which guarantees the right to an effective remedy for anyone whose Convention rights and freedoms are violated. The only remedy open to the applicant in this case was that of judicial review, which the court deemed to be inadequate in the circumstances. In short, there was no assessment made by the domestic authorities of her claim to be at risk if removed to Iran. Accordingly, the message from Strasbourg jurisprudence seems to be that measures taken for administrative convenience must be proportionate. Applying the logic of that decision to the relevant provisions of section 6 the Human Rights Commission takes the view that similar concerns may be raised about the possibility of rejecting an asylum application simply on the basis of a failure by an applicant to fulfil this procedural requirement. The commission therefore supports the suggestion made by the UNHCR that such applications be considered abandoned and closed, rather than deeming them to be withdrawn and hence rejected. Whenever an application is considered then to have been abandoned, this should not prejudice the applicant from applying to re-enter the asylum procedure. In the commission's view, the right of a person to apply to re-enter the procedure in order to have the substantive merits of the application assessed by the Refugee Applications Commissioner, should be made explicit in this Bill. Section 17(7) of the Refugee Act 1996 does not at present reflect that position, since the right to apply to re-enter the procedure is entirely at the discretion of the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform.

Turning to the decision in DL v. the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, the commission is very concerned about the potentially damaging effect which this decision might have on people previously given temporary permits to reside in the State prior to the judgments. Most of these people had made decisions and personal arrangements based on their understanding on the legal position prior to the DL decision. Temporary residence was routinely granted in this State to the non-national parents and siblings of Irish-born children prior to that decision, based on an expansive interpretation of the Supreme Court’s previous decision in the case of Fajujonuv. the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform. Many of the people who had been granted temporary residence on the strength of that case abandoned their asylum applications in the expectation that they would in time be granted the right to remain in the State on a permanent basis.

Even though the Supreme Court held in DL that deportation decisions do not per se interfere with the family’s constitution and authority as protected by the Constitution, in the view of the Human Rights Commission deportation is likely at the very least to be extremely disruptive in terms of the right to respect for family life as protected under international law. The commission therefore considers that no family whose present position derives in part at least from a decision or other act of a State agency based on a more expansive understanding of the Fajujonu decision than that which was ultimately adopted by the Supreme Court in DL, should be affected to their detriment by the court’s decision.

The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform has stated that each case will be examined on its merits. In the view of the Human Rights Commission, the Minister should adopt an explicit policy not to deport persons who have already been granted residency in the State when the period of residency expires, except for compelling reasons relating to the conduct of the individuals themselves. Such a decision in the view of the commission should be announced at an early date to allay anxiety among parents who have been granted residency to date. The commission would also recommend that where the parents of non-national children had withdrawn their applications for asylum based on their previous understanding of the legal position, they should be entitled to re-enter the asylum procedure as of right. At the moment it appears that persons who withdrew their applications at the appeal stage may only reinstate their applications with the consent of the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform under section 17(7) of the Refugee Act. However, in line with the commission's comments on the Immigration Bill 2002, withdrawal of an application based on a mistaken view of the law should not prejudice the substantive basis of a claim for asylum.

With respect to the position of children born in Ireland to non-national parents after the DL decision, there is also a concern about the possible deportation of those children and their parents to countries where they could still face serious harm as opposed to persecution, which would give rise to an asylum claim. A well-founded fear of persecution would give rise to the possibility of making an asylum application, but adequate provision is not made in Irish law for persons in need of complementary or subsidiary protection, persons who do not have a well-founded fear of persecution but who otherwise would face return to serious harm, for instance a natural disaster such as a famine. The situations of such persons who face deportation are put in sharp relief in certain circumstances. Those situations are considered only on their merits at the moment as an aspect of the deportation process under the Immigration Act 1999. The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform has discretion under section 3 of that Act to have regard to humanitarian considerations in making a decision whether or not to deport a person. The Commission suggests that in such situations there is a heavy onus on the Minister to allow the parents of any such child to remain in Ireland to preserve the integrity of the family unit.

I thank Ms Egan for her enlightening presentation. It raises a number of questions for elucidation and clarification. Particularly interesting was her reference to section 2, wherein she said that asylum seekers should be allowed to get on a boat or aeroplane. Most of those who travel on boats to Ireland come from European countries. Under the Dublin Convention, people go back to a country. There is the question of how that would apply and whether it would affect matters. Ms Egan has certainly very clearly put forward the question under section 6 of the procedures, with the time delays. It appears that there is a need to alter that, for, as she mentioned, administrative convenience, and the measures taken must be proportionate. It has been suggested by several groups that there is a need for adjustment in that case. We have been talking a great deal about what we can do regarding people who have residency in this country because they are the parents of children born here. At least Ms Egan has put forward a scenario for dealing with it. I am very grateful to her for putting something forward that can be discussed.

I will open the discussion to the floor for comments and questions, beginning with Deputy Joe Costello, who is the Labour Party spokesperson on justice and law reform.

I am delighted to be able to welcome the Human Rights Commission once again. Professor Manning was an old colleague of mine in the Seanad. Ms Egan is also very welcome. The presentation today was extremely concise and explicit, making a great many very good points. If possible, I would like to have a copy of Ms Egan's remarks regarding carrier legislation, the Immigration Bill 2002, which we are currently discussing, and regarding the Supreme Court decision.

Perhaps we might also have a list of the amendments Ms Egan feels are justified here. If she gives them to the secretariat, it will ensure that they are delivered to each member of the committee.

I have one or two points regarding the two items on the Immigration Bill 2002. It certainly seems that the function of the carrier sanction is to prevent people from coming to Ireland, and anybody who comes seeking asylum is very unlikely to have their documentation in order, for, if that were the case, he or she would probably not have to seek asylum in the first place. It seems that the requirements regarding sanctions imposed on carriers, vessels and vehicles coming to this country are surplus to anything required for normal business and procedure and that the intention is to prevent the landing on Irish soil of people of any description, whether they be fleeing persecution or economic refugees. The picture, as you have presented it in broad brush strokes indicates that the Minister is certainly going over the top with this legislation.

Ms Egan referred to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the UN Convention and Protocol Relating to the Status of Refugees. Has the Minister gone too far under international law, and could a case be taken against this legislation if passed in its present form? I appreciate the amendment proposed, and I would be delighted to see it accepted. It would be very valuable for those seeking asylum other than non-nationals. The second point mentioned concerned procedural requirements that seemed too restrictive, with the Bill going too far on procedures regarding sanctions and what a person must do to respond within a set period.

Another point concerned the Supreme Court judgment. The commission says that an explicit policy must be articulated on the matter, and that some areas need to be addressed, such as the right for someone who has withdrawn from the process for bona fide reasons to re-enter it. At present, I understand that it is purely at the discretion of the Minister. Ms Egan’s first point was that the position of the parent should not be affected detrimentally based on expectation. Perhaps she might elaborate on that. She said there would be an expectation that, once the child was born to a parent, the person would be granted right of residency, which was the standard position before the Supreme Court decision. How does one compare that with the situation now, after the decision has been taken and everyone knows the Supreme Court judgment fully - if that were possible, which it is probably not? Is there a right of expectation which should be given substantial consideration regarding the 10,000 or 11,000 cases? At the moment no right of expectation exists, so perhaps that should be formalised in some fashion when dealing with the cases currently before us.

Like my colleague, Deputy Costello, I welcome our former colleague, Professor Maurice Manning, and Ms Egan. I am deputising for our spokesman on justice, Deputy John Deasy, who is unavoidably detained elsewhere this afternoon. I will certainly pass on any amendments proposed to him. Examining the big picture with this legislation, are we subject to any other legislation at European level, and are there any guidelines, under which we can legislate and operate, or are we left to our own devices? Surely there are international conventions that can be infringed. What is the situation, and does this Bill come within what is allowable?

My second point is more general. I read in the submission that people can be turned back on the United States' borders and put in a carrier back home. Does that happen in this country? Can people be turned back at an airport or port without being allowed to enter the country at all?

Does the commission consider the Supreme Court decision final, or should the Oireachtas introduce legislation, perhaps also to be tested by the Supreme Court? In other words, does the commission see that as the ultimate decision on the law of the land? Are there any other avenues by which Oireachtas Members or the political system could explore other options or is it a fait accompli in that the Supreme Court, the highest court in the land, has made a decision that is irreversible?

There is a vote in the Dáil. We are not uncaring. After the vote we will listen to the answers to those questions and conclude. Is that agreed? Agreed.

The joint committee suspended at 5.11 p.m. and resumed at 5.29 p.m.

Clerk to the Committee

In the unavoidable absence of the Chairman and Vice-Chairman, and pursuant to Standing Order 88(3), I call for nominations for temporary chairman.

I propose Deputy Costello.

I second that proposal.

Clerk to the Committee

In the absence of an alternative suggestion, I now call Deputy Costello to take the Chair.

Deputy Costello took the Chair.

We had reached the stage where members of the committee who were present during the presentation from the Human Rights Commission had all asked questions with the exception of Deputy Hoctor. I call her now.

I welcome Professor Manning and Ms Suzanne Egan. I have some questions regarding the Human Rights Commission. The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform has catered in the legislation for the carrier issue with regard to shipping lines and airlines. No doubt he had the budget in mind - he has reminded the committee that meeting the accommodation and social welfare needs of non-nationals in this country costs in excess of €350 million.

It is a strong measure in terms of cutting expenditure for the future. Would it not be seen by the Human Rights Commission as a measure by which the rights of Irish citizens would be protected from those who perhaps have a criminal history within their own countries, from where they are possibly fleeing the law? The citizens of this country obviously have a right to be protected and it is the duty of the Government to protect them. Would it not be in the interests of the Human Rights Commission that the Minister should take proper precautionary measures prior to the arrival in Ireland of people we do not want, people who bring with them a questionable history and who will be of no benefit to this country? Would it not accept that the Minister is correct in allowing for that in the legislation?

In the context of legislation that might be coming up, does the Human Rights Commission become involved in individual cases or is it more involved in overall study and research and the provision of information?

Ms Egan

The Acting Chairman, Deputy Costello, asked if it was my opinion that the Minister had gone too far in terms of international law. The answer to that depends on the appropriate interpretation of particular provisions of international law. I draw the Deputy's attention particularly to Article 33 of the Refugee Convention and the wording of that instrument, which provides that a state should not return a person in any manner whatsoever to a country where he or she fears persecution. I refer the Deputy also to other international instruments which provide similar guarantees to asylum seekers - the UN Torture Convention, the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights and the European Convention on Human Rights, to all of which Ireland is party.

The only court which could issue a binding interpretation of international law in this area would be the European Court of Human Rights. It is entirely possible that the court would, in interpreting the European Convention on Human Rights, have regard to Article 33 and the specific wording of that provision, that the State should not return a person in any manner whatsoever to a country where that person would fear persecution. It is possible, therefore, that if a case on carrier sanctions and the compatibility of carrier sanctions with Article 3 of the European Convention on Human Rights came before the court, it could hold a state which imposes such carrier sanctions to be in violation of the convention in an individual case. The United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees has stressed on a number of occasions that the principle of non-refoulement applies to non-rejection at the frontier. Why, in other words, should a distinction be made between who has one foot in the territory and one foot outside? This would give rise to a compelling interpretation of the refugee convention that carrier sanctions effectively breach the principle ofnon-refoulement indirectly.

The Deputy's second question related to the Lobe case. I think the Deputy asked me to juxtapose the position of persons who were relying on a previous legal interpretation with persons who might have wanted to make a claim to residency after the Lobe decision. Our comments with respect to people who are given temporary residency prior to the Lobe ruling raise in substance the prospect of arguments involving legitimate expectations, even if not on strictly legal grounds, but certainly on humanitarian grounds. As regards persons affected after the Lobe case, my comments with respect to the need in Ireland for legislation on complementary protection for humanitarian cases would inevitably apply here.

Deputy McGinley asked if the commission is subject to any guidelines at European level, apropos the Immigration Bill 2002. The relevant instruments are the refugee convention, the UN Convention against Torture and the European Convention on Human Rights.

Deputy McGinley also asked if people could be turned back on arrival in the State when seeking asylum. Under the terms of the Refugee Act 1996, any person who arrives in this State in search of asylum must be allowed enter the asylum procedure and have his or her claim dealt with on its substantive merits. The question dramatically raises the problem with carrier sanctions because the effect of sanctions is to prevent a person arriving in the State. The person arriving would be fully entitled to make a refugee claim, so preventing access to the territory is the fundamental problem with carrier sanctions. They preclude what would otherwise be a right if the person actually arrived here.

Deputy O'Donovan asked if the Supreme Court decision was final, if the Oireachtas could introduce legislation or if other avenues were open. The answer is that, theoretically, the Oireachtas could introduce legislation to deal with the effects of the decision in the Lobe case, but the Human Rights Commission has no specific view on this matter. It is a matter entirely for the Oireachtas.

Professor Manning

I shall address the question raised by Deputy Hoctor. We are bound by the legislation which set up the Human Rights Commission. In this case we are commenting only on the proposed legislation before us. The questions the Deputy raised do not arise for us. We would be straying beyond our brief if we engaged at this stage in those issues. If the Deputy feels that these questions need examination from a human rights point of view and wants a human rights perspective on them, the commission would be very happy to look at the matter and provide the Deputy with what we hope would be an informed view. In response to her other question, we can examine individual cases.

Does anyone wish to raise any other matters? Members are obviously satisfied with the replies, which were clear, explicit and in the manner we have come to expect from the Human Rights Commission. Obviously, the commission is up and running. Does it have its full quota of staff at this point?

Professor Manning

We are close. We are involved in minor rows with the Minister for Finance, Deputy McCreevy, or some of his officials, on a number of matters, but we would hope to be in our premises within two or three months and to have our full quota of staff by then. We are making progress. We would like to thank the committee for the support given to us. It is very helpful to us to know the committee is so supportive.

Thank you very much. We certainly appreciate your contribution to this committee. We know that it has just started but it is a major part of the contribution that will be made to the work we are doing and that is very welcome. We indicated, and the representatives responded, that they were prepared to give us a copy of their statement and amendments that might be suggested in relation to the Immigration Bill. If there are any further submissions or comments that they feel we would benefit from, they should get in contact with the secretariat. We would certainly appreciate it.

Professor Manning

I thank the Chairman.

I again thank the representatives for appearing before the committee. We will pause for a few moments to allow them to withdraw and we will then continue in private session.

The joint committee went into private session at 5.40 p.m. and adjourned at 5.55 p.m. until Wednesday, 21 May 2003.

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