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Joint Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions debate -
Wednesday, 12 Nov 2014

Role and Remit: Financial Services Ombudsman

The committee is sitting in its capacity as a joint sub-committee on the ombudsman. I remind all those present, including members, witnesses and people in the gallery that mobile phones and BlackBerry devices must be switched off or switched to flight or safe mode because they interfere with the broadcasting system, even when left in silent mode.

I welcome Mr. William Prasifka, the Financial Services Ombudsman, who will make a presentation on the role and remit of the ombudsman and the challenges facing his organisation. He is accompanied by Ms Jacqueline McCrum, Deputy Financial Services Ombudsman, Ms MaryRose McGovern, head of investigation, Mr. Diarmuid Byrne, head of administration and Mr. Tom Finn, head of legal services. I welcome our witnesses and thank them for forwarding the presentation which has been circulated to members. We are keen to hear from them.

By virtue of section 17(2)(l) of the Defamation Act 2009, witnesses are protected by absolute privilege in respect of the evidence they give to the committee. If they are directed by it to cease giving evidence on a particular matter and continue to do so, they are entitled thereafter only to qualified privilege in respect of their evidence. They are directed that only evidence connected with the subject matter of these proceedings is to be given and they are asked to respect the parliamentary practice to the effect that, where possible, they should not criticise or make charges against any person or an entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable.

I invite Mr. Prasifka to make his presentation.

Mr. William Prasifka

I thank the Chairman and members of the committee for inviting us to appear before it. We welcome the opportunity to give our views on these important matters. I also thank the committee for looking at the Office of the Ombudsman as a whole. I am sure, as the Chairman has found by looking at the respective ombudsman schemes, that we are different bodies, each with a different remit. Some of us deal with stakeholders in the private sector, others in the public sector. Some can only make recommendations but others, such as ourselves, make decisions that are legally binding. Despite the fact that there are many differences, we have things in common, in particular as the committee looks at the respective roles of each of the ombudsmen, I would commend them very much to look at the guide to principles of good governance that have been put forward by the Ombudsman Association. The Ombudsman Association is an association of the ombudsmen of the UK and Ireland. All the various Irish ombudsmen are full participants and they look at very different ombudsman schemes - from the financial services ombudsman, the statutory ombudsman to the various private sector ombudsmen. They deem there are certain principles such as independence and effectiveness that really are principles that should apply across the board. It is very important for the committee to focus on those types of issues as they look across the ombudsman spectrum.

I am here primarily to talk to the committee about the work of the Financial Services Ombudsman. We were set up to be an alternative to the courts. We are independent and impartial in resolving disputes. Our particular jurisdiction is that we handle complaints by eligible consumers against regulated financial service providers. This includes banks, building societies, insurance companies, intermediaries and a host of other providers, which are all regulated providers.

We were set up in 2005 on a statutory basis as the Financial Services Ombudsman. Prior to the establishment of the financial services ombudsman, there were voluntary schemes, set up by industry, such as a banking ombudsman, a credit institutions ombudsman and an insurance ombudsman. Those roles were amalgamated and we were put on a statutory basis.

We are a statutory officeholder who deals independently with complaints from consumers about their individual dealings with all financial service providers that have not been resolved by the providers. It is a requirement that before someone should come to us that he or she engages with the provider first. The provider is required to inform the eligible consumer of our existence. If the consumer is not satisfied with the resolution the financial service provider has given, he or she can then complain to us.

The legislation that established us is the Central Bank and Financial Services Authority of Ireland Act 2004. It provides that we should deal with complaints efficiently, effectively and fairly, and that complaints should be dealt with in an informal and expeditious manner. We are funded by a levy on the industry, not by the Exchequer, and consumers who make a complaint to us pay no fee and can do so free of charge.

We operate in a larger institutional framework. We adjudicate complaints based on principles made by others. The principal basis on which we adjudicate cases is the consumer protection code and other regulations that are promulgated by the Central Bank. We are also guided by legislation and general legal principles. Our decisions are only binding on the parties in front of us. We do not establish legal precedents. That is not our job. We are not a court. We do not investigate financial service providers. We do not investigate complainants. If we come across an issue that we think is of systemic effect, we notify the Central Bank with which we have a very open and productive relationship. It is up to the Central Bank as the regulator to make an investigation, if it wishes. It has administrative powers. It can issue fines and penalties. We do not issue fines. We do not award penalties. We adjudicate individual complaints and we award compensation.

The Financial Services Ombudsman is appointed by the Financial Services Ombudsman Council. He is not a member of the council. The council operates in a supervisory and advisory capacity. It is a separate body. It has no role with regard to how the ombudsman and the bureau deal with a particular complaint. The ombudsman and the bureau are completely independent, not only of the stakeholders but also of the council. We have been issuing a report about our complaints twice a year, our biannual review. The latest one was issued for the second half of last year. We have given the committee a copy of that review. It tells a very important story about what has been happening in terms of complaints to our office in the past year. By way of background, it is important to know that if one considers the financial crisis and the record of complaints before the ombudsman, between 2006 and 2009 the volume of complaints doubled and trebled. That put a significant strain on the work of the office. From 2009 to 2013 the complaints levelled off, broadly speaking. Since the second half of last year, however, there has been a very significant reduction in the numbers of complaints of approximately 50%.

There are several reasons for this. The complaints were driven by the financial crisis, by people often in very severe financial distress, for example, people who had lost money on their investments. Complaints about investments in the past 18 months are down by approximately 90%. We operate under a six-year rule of the statute of limitations. In effect, the people who lost their money when the markets collapsed in 2008 have already made their complaints to us. People who made their investments in 2009 or 2010 had, by and large, a very different outcome from those who made their investments in a previous period. There are reductions in complaints across the board. There are two reasons for that, the first of which is that we have changed our procedures to insist that complainants fully engage with providers before we adjudicate a complaint. We have found that many people come to us prematurely before they have engaged with the financial provider and we tell them we are here for them if they are unhappy with the resolution the provider gives, but first they must deal with the provider. They go to the provider and many do not come back to us.

Second, the legislation was changed in the second half of last year to give us the ability to issue reports on the complaint performance of individual financial service providers, and we did this in our first report which we published earlier this year. It set out a fairly simple league table of the numbers of complaints upheld against financial service providers where during the relevant period, three or more complaints were upheld. We did this according to the statutory instrument which sets out the way this must be done.

It has been our experience that this single report has had more influence on the behaviour of financial service providers than all the other decisions we had made in the first almost ten years of the office. There is a renewed sense of engagement by providers. They are trying to settle more cases and are engaging with their customers at all stages in the process, from before the complaint is made to us to very advanced stages of investigation. We, by and large, consider this to be a good thing because there can only be a settlement if both parties agree. If someone is not happy with an offer made, that person is fully entitled to adjudicate to continue with the investigation and have us adjudicate the case. We are very pleased to do that.

The committee has asked us several very specific questions. I have dealt with some about the role and function of an ombudsman and the rights of citizens. For us, it is very clear: citizens can make complaints to us if they are eligible consumers and they can do that free of charge. Another question we were asked was whether the office of any ombudsman should be statutorily based and why. I have to qualify my answer by saying that in terms of financial services we believe that it should be statutorily based because it means our decisions are legally binding. Given the history of financial services and their importance, the public needs a manner of clear, effective redress and that can only be given if the body has binding legal powers.

If we turn to the broader network of ombudsmen, there are many voluntary schemes that are not based on statute that effectively provide a very good service. They are forms of complaint handling. Often their jurisdictional limit is quite small. For some of the ombudsmen schemes dealing with telecommunications or other types of commercial services, the remit of the ombudsman may be only €1,000 per complaint - relatively small - whereas ours is €250,000. Those schemes provide a valuable service. They can be quite effective provided there is buy-in from the industry, and putting them on a statutory basis may not gain much more. There are some areas, such as financial services, which because of their importance in people’s lives and because it is one area where there is a great disparity in knowledge between the average consumer and the financial institution should be statutorily based. We have learnt from dealing with people that many of them do not understand the nature of the products they have bought. They do not understand their rights. That cries out for the need for effective redress.

Another question is whether each ombudsman should be independently funded directly from the Central Fund. We are not funded by the Exchequer. We are funded by a levy on the industry. That is entirely appropriate. We inherited a voluntary scheme which was already funded by the industry.

It is more appropriate for the industry to pay for it than the Exchequer. Having said that, sometimes when we get letters from people who have made complaints and who are unhappy, they ask how they can expect anything else because we are funded by the industry. It is very important that when a body is funded by a levy on the industry it has proper governance in place in order that it is independent. In that sense, we are independent. The levy is not imposed by the ombudsman or the bureau but by the council, which does it independently of us. The council takes no part in deciding individual cases. The independence of an ombudsman, if it is fully enshrined, is compatible with funding by the industry.

An important question is whether all public bodies should respect and implement in full recommendations made by the ombudsman arising from formal investigations by that ombudsman. As I said previously, one can broadly separate the world of ombudsmen into two groups, namely, the public and the private ombudsmen. The public ombudsmen, such as the Garda Síochána Ombudsman Commission or the statutory Ombudsman, Mr. Peter Tyndall, deal with complaints against public bodies. We deal with complaints against private bodies, which makes us significantly different. Public bodies should have a buy-in to the ombudsman process. If public bodies are able to ignore recommendations of the Ombudsman without giving any reason whatsoever, that obviously undermines its authority. That is not to say that the Ombudsman is infallible but, clearly, in respect of the public ombudsmen, there must be some thought given to the integrity of their decisions. We, however, are in a very different space. We do not deal with public bodies but with private ones and our decisions are legally binding. To that extent, our decisions can be fully and completely implemented by the parties concerned. If, for example, a financial service provider does not implement one of our decisions, there are provisions in place which allow us to take the provider to court. By and large, the only circumstances in which our decisions and findings are not implemented by the financial service provider are when that provider has gone out of business or into liquidation. At that point, there is nothing that anyone can do in terms of enforcement.

On the question of the threshold for a government which wishes to reject a report from an ombudsman, this is something that the public ombudsmen would be better able to comment on rather than us. The impartiality of the ombudsman is both a matter of fact and perception and the prestige of access to independent redress by citizens is also a matter of perception. In that context, we have been asked for our views on how this should be strengthened. Independence is at the absolute heart of what we must be. If we are not independent, in both fact and perception, we cannot do our job. Again, that is enshrined in legislation, as follows:

The Financial Services Ombudsman is entitled to perform the functions imposed, and exercise the powers conferred, by this Act free from interference by any other person and, when dealing with a particular complaint, is required to act in an informal manner and according to equity, good conscience and the substantial merits of the complaint without regard to technicality or legal form.

We believe that independence is extremely important. We have to be able to investigate complaints free from all interference. There are also very important governance aspects to the tenure of the ombudsman. The Ombudsman Association argues that the recommended term of office should be a minimum of five years. Everyone understands the importance of the independence of the Judiciary and we all accept that it must be free from any type of influence. That is why judges are given, in many cases, lifetime tenure. We are not asking for that but we believe that a minimum tenure of five years is appropriate, given the fact that we have a quasi-judicial function at the very least. We also believe that the salary of the officeholder should be tied to a Civil Service grade and not simply a single salary point.

Effectiveness is also very important. We must continue to have the necessary powers and ability to provide an aggrieved complainant with an adequate remedy. As one looks across the spectrum of other ombudsmen, this is a question that must be focused on. What can the other ombudsmen do to compensate an aggrieved party? If they cannot do that, there is no incentive for anyone to make a complaint to them. If an ombudsman is not getting complaints, then he or she is not really an ombudsman. My office has a very wide jurisdiction to give a complainant effective relief. If someone has made an investment and makes a case that he or she was mis-sold that investment, I have the legal powers to direct that the investment be returned to the financial service provider and the individual can get all of his or her money back, irrespective of jurisdictional limit. That is a very clear-cut example of how we can give an individual an adequate remedy. It is very important to look at this issue through that lens in the context of other ombudsmen.

The final question is whether all bodies and entities providing goods and services, whether delivered by the private or public sector, should be subject to the remit of the ombudsman. The statutory Ombudsman has spoken about this and it is a question that is more relevant for him. That said, we would agree with his position. If services were provided by the public sector previously - and under the public regime, a complaint could be made to the Ombudsman - the privatisation of those services provides no reason to deny aggrieved consumers the ability to access the Ombudsman. It should not make any difference whether the service provider is in public or private ownership in terms of the public having access to an ombudsman scheme.

I am very happy to answer any further questions the committee may have.

I welcome Mr. Prasifka and his team and thank them for appearing before this committee. A number of thoughts struck me as I listened to Mr. Prasifka's opening statement, particularly on the broader ombudsman issues. I have a particular interest in the Irish language and one of the points regularly made by an Coimisinéir Teanga relates directly to what Mr. Prasifka said, namely, that if an ombudsman cannot impose appropriate sanctions, then he or she is not really an ombudsman. That is an issue which we will be discussing further with the language commissioner, who does not seem be enjoying the co-operation of various Departments and semi-State bodies because they do not see the possibility of sanctions being imposed on them if they do not do what he recommends. He tries to cajole them and bring them along. It is interesting to see that in the case of the Financial Services Ombudsman, the sanctions that can be imposed actually work. The so-called name and shame table issued by the Financial Services Ombudsman seems to have worked very well and I applaud his office for that. Many people believe that if financial institutions are not acting properly they should be named and shamed publicly.

I note that there does not seem to be a large number of complaints relating to credit unions and I ask Mr. Prasifka to elaborate on that issue. I apologise for not going through everything in detail but it appears to me that there seem to be more complaints made against the larger institutions in the financial services sector.

Given that there have been a number of issues around some credit unions that have been amalgamated or have got into trouble, is there a reason there is not as much around that area? Is the ombudsman happy with the powers he has or is there an extension of the remit that he would like? The statutory Ombudsman has named a number of areas where it feels we should have jurisdiction in this area because we get complaints and we cannot deal them. Are there particular areas from which the ombudsman receives a body of complaints but which are outside his remit and where he would be open to having the remit extended to cover them?

Mr. Prasifka said that for the decisions to be legally binding it is important for the office of the Ombudsman to be statutorily based. What discussions has he had with the Department and the relevant Ministers in this regard and what has been their response when he has sought these powers?

The health insurance industry is an area in which everybody gets mind boggled. If one seeks to change one's policy from one provider to another, it is very difficult to compare and contrast the prices. If Mr. Prasifka sees a body of complaints arriving around a particular matter, does he issue a recommendation that perhaps the industry should look at homogenising the way it presents the information to the consumer in order that it is easier to compare and contrast and, if so, what mechanisms are in place for changing the way financial services present their products and services and how successful has he been?

I will get a response to those questions.

May I ask one final question? How does Mr. Prasifka think the committee could be of use to him? How can we engage with him to support the work he is doing in order that he could be more efficient or successful in his aims and we could be of use to him within the Oireachtas setting?

Is Mr. Prasifka clear on those questions?

Mr. William Prasifka

I will take the questions in turn. I agree completely with the Senator that the effectiveness of a remedy is the most important thing. The ombudsman is there to decide individual complaints so the remedy must be there for the aggrieved party. The ombudsman is not a regulator. The office is not there to award a penalty or to issue a fine but to award compensation, to give a remedy to a person. That is very important because if someone has no remedy, why should he or she make a complaint? If one is not getting complaints, one is not in the business of being an ombudsman. As the committee goes through the other ombudsmen, one has to ask what is there for a person to make a complaint? For us, we have the full powers so maybe, in some regard, we are best in the class. One has to look at it with that lens for other ombudsmen.

The second point was about name and shame. I can tell the committee it has been our experience that there are many financial institutions who are extremely concerned about potential reputational damage that may come to them by featuring prominently or, in some cases, featuring at all in our table. To be in our table one has to have three or more complaints. It is inevitable that for the largest institutions they will always be there given the volume of business they do. It is an important lesson. We always had full legal powers. We had full legal powers to award a good deal of compensation but for many institutions we only really got their attention when we had the ability to report on their individual performance. There is a lesson there for some of the other ombudsmen.

In terms of credit unions, it is interesting to note that I am speaking to some people in the credit unions tomorrow so we have the number of complaints there to hand. In the past couple of years, complaints about credit unions have averaged just under 1% of the total number of complaints. This year, they are running at approximately 0.5%. By any context, given the size of the business that is a very good performance. Why is that? We have looked at this for a number of years. It is clear that its product portfolio is simpler, it is relationship based and community based. Where one gets into trouble with people in the financial service providers is if there is no relationship. So much of what we do is looking at whether there is a match-up between the product that is sold and the person who bought it. If one is dealing with an institution which has the customer today, has had them for a number of years, and hopes to have them for the rest of their life, and if they are relationship based they will know the customer better and are more interested in selling them products that will make them want to come back. We think those are very important issues. We receive relatively few complaints about credit unions. Perhaps that is something they should speak about more and it is to their advantage.

The Senator asked if we need any additional powers. On a broad level, the answer is "No". We have full powers. In terms of our proposed amalgamation with the pensions ombudsman, we have been looking at the powers of the pensions ombudsman versus the powers that we have and we have found a few anomalies. For example, when the pensions ombudsman does an investigation, it has the power to compel third parties to give it information if it deems it relevant to its investigation of a complaint. We only have the power to compel the financial service provider for information. Often, what happens in, say, the case of an investment product is that the sale is made by a financial adviser who is the agent of the financial service provider and that person has left the company. We have taken legal advice on this issue. We have no power to compel that person to give us information or to appear if we have an oral hearing. Sometimes that is the critical witness and we have no power in that area. As we are looking at amending the legislation, that may be one area where we would look for additional powers.

The Senator raised the issue of health insurance. We deal with health insurance on a daily basis. We had noticed there was an increase in health insurance complaints going back three and four years ago. This was understandable because the market was becoming more complicated. We had gone from a position of one or two providers to more providers. There were different types of policies and it was clear that a number of complaints were driven by the fact that people did not really understand the coverage they had or the coverage they were getting. We did have a number of complaints in this area. This is one where we make the individual decisions. If we think there are any systemic issues we refer them to the Central Bank but we are not there to give industry guidelines. That is not our job. Our job is to adjudicate individual complaints. Hopefully the industry will learn from that but in terms of further regulations, industry guidelines, these are issues for the regulator and not for ourselves.

The Senator's last question was how I think the committee could be of benefit to us. I welcome the committee looking at the ombudsman's spectrum across all of us. What I would like to see the committee do is to look at the principles of good governance of the Ombudsman Association in the context of each ombudsman. How are they living up to that? Are they effective? Are they independent? If not, why not, and how can they be made better? That is how I think they be of benefit to us.

I am well aware that while we have full powers, many of our fellow ombudsmen do not. There is a useful role for the committee in examining those issues.

I thank Mr. Prasifka and his colleagues for their very clear presentation. I apologise if the answers to any of my questions were included in the annual report of the Office of the Financial Services Ombudsman and I simply could not find them. Mr. Prasifka expressed the view that the levy is the appropriate way to fund his office rather than direct Exchequer funding. Without meaning in any way to impugn the work the delegates do, there is always the possibility that some people will say that because the office is being paid for by the industry, it might not be as independent as one would like. Have the delegates found that any of their members are reluctant to pay the levy and, if so, what recourse does the office have, or is this not really an issue?

Most of the other ombudsmen who have appeared before the committee observed that they often encounter delays in getting information from Departments and other bodies and experience a level of non-co-operation. Where they make findings, we were told, there is sometimes a problem with their implementation and, in some cases, they are just plain ignored. I note that the delegates' annual report makes no reference to any of these types of problems. This might mean they are not experiencing such difficulties or it could be that they are just not referred to in the report. Will Mr. Prasifka clarify that?

The Office of the Financial Services Ombudsman offers the right to mediation, but only a very small number of cases have ended up in mediation and only six were resolved by that route. Is this low rate because mediation is still a very new process or is it simply the case that it does not work in many instances? Does Mr. Prasifka have an observation on the role of mediation in general? As a society, it is surely something we ought to embrace more widely. I am pleased the option is there, albeit on a small scale. Perhaps the intention is to expand it. If a complainant is dissatisfied with the ombudsman's findings, is that the end of the line or does he or she have the right of appeal to the ombudsman?

Mr. Prasifka indicated that where a matter is found to be of systemic concern, his office will refer it to the Central Bank. Does that happen often? Mr. Prasifka observed that his office has a good and open relationship with the Central Bank. If information on referrals is not included in the annual report, does he agree it should it be included in the interests of transparency? If the office is discovering issues that have a systemic quality, should it not report them and say it has done so?

Mr. Prasifka noted that the Financial Services Ombudsman office is not obliged to feed into the setting up of rules or guidelines. Is there a relationship, either formal or informal, with the regulator whereby the office can feed in its expertise and findings, or do the delegates expect the regulator to read what they have done and take its own findings?

Mr. William Prasifka

Regarding the levy, I acknowledge the public perception issue that might arise from the fact that we are effectively funded by the industry. The difficulty is that the choices are rather stark in this regard. Would it be better to have the office funded directly by the taxpayer? I have said that the levy is effectively paid for by the industry, but it is really paid for by customers as well. It is a cost of doing business. Best international practice in this area is for bodies like ours to be paid for by the industry, that is, by the people who are using the financial services products that are being regulated. However, as I said, there is the danger that people will deem us to be not independent, which is why we must have proper structures of governance in place. It is very important that the ombudsman is seen to be clearly independent.

Regarding our ability to collect the levy, the only issue we have in this regard is with very small providers. Our remit covers everything from the largest financial institutions, banks and insurance companies down to two-person operations providing intermediary or broker services. During the contraction of recent years, many of those smaller providers went out of business. There is no real issue in terms of collecting the levy from 98% plus of the bodies we regulate. We are dealing with regulated financial service providers - companies which must have the licence - and that puts them into a separate category.

The Senator asked whether we experience any element of non-co-operation when it comes to implementing our findings. As I said, our findings are legally binding and are generally implemented. The only exception we have found is in circumstances where a company goes out of business and is in liquidation or receivership. In such cases we would be in contact with the receiver. The Senator is correct that there is no reference to this issue in our annual report. That is because it is not really an issue for us. It is only an issue where parties go out of business, but at that point nobody can collect a judgment against them.

Does what Mr. Prasifka is saying also apply to the way in which companies co-operate with the ombudsman's office in terms of coming before it, providing paperwork and so on?

Mr. William Prasifka

Sometimes, by the time a complaint is made to us, the company is already in liquidation.

I was referring not to companies in liquidation but ongoing concerns with which the ombudsman's office is dealing.

Ms Jacqueline McCrum

We have specific timelines within which we expect companies to engage with us, and most concur with those timelines. At the same time, one size does not fit all and where there is a very gritty case which might reasonably require an extension, we are quite happy to accommodate that. In general, however, it is important that those timelines are adhered to so that everybody knows what the next stage will be. That information is exchanged with the complainant, so both sides know exactly where they stand.

Mr. William Prasifka

Senator O'Keeffe is correct that there has been a relatively small take-up of the mediation option. When I say "mediation" I am referring to formal mediation where both parties come into our office and meet with our staff members who are trained as mediators and can work to facilitate agreement. We are required, under the legislation, to offer mediation, but it can only happen where both parties consent to it. Many providers are not willing to give that consent because, in their view, they have already made their case and, in some cases, have already made a settlement offer. They are not willing to go any further.

Having said that, the incidence of settlements has been increasing in recent years. "Settlement" simply means the parties talking to each other, which we encourage. I always make the point in regard to mediation that we fully understand it is never going to be a means of resolving most or a large number of cases. By the time complaints have been made, positions have hardened. Mediation will only take place when both parties come forward with a willingness to compromise and meet somewhere in the middle. However, I tell providers every time I see them that there is scope for more than one mediation per month. Many of the companies that have availed of it have found it to be beneficial. It is a means of resolving those cases where parties are willing to compromise. The take-up is not that high but, as I said, more cases are being settled, which is a good thing.

The Senator asked where people can go if they are dissatisfied with the outcome of their appeal and whether we have an internal mechanism for dealing with such cases.

The simple answer is that there is no internal mechanism. The courts have stated our findings are legally binding. If either party, the complainant or the financial service provider, is dissatisfied, they can appeal to the courts. That is where they have to go.

In response to the question about systemic concern and how we report to the Central Bank, we have a very open relationship and meet it formally every quarter and copies of findings go directly to it from time to time, which raises issues. We occasionally have a follow-up with it on where certain matters have gone. We are not the regulator. The information goes to the Central Bank. We have a memorandum of understanding with it, which allows us to exchange information on a broad range of issues. We are the Ombudsman and the Central Bank is the regulator. The Ombudsman can be a very good early warning system, particularly during turbulent times. We see many issues before others would. All of our information feeds into the Central Bank which can use it for a variety of means. It can use it to prioritise where it will work and carry out investigations; it can even assist it in identifying areas of concern and certain financial service providers. At the end of the day, it is up to the regulator. We are there to adjudicate on cases and provide the regulator with information.

I thank the ombudsman's office for its report and submission. Am I right in saying there have been approximately 6,000 complaints this year - 3,000 in the first quarter and 3,000 in the second?

Mr. William Prasifka

We have not released the figures for this year.

Ms Jacqueline McCrum

We had just over 8,000 last year and the number is dropping again this year. There are probably just over 5,000 this year, but the figures will not be issued until February.

The biggest bloc of complaints is in the insurance sector and the second in banking. Is there a pattern to the complaints in these two areas? Are many complaints of a similar type?

Mr. William Prasifka

Each sector has a particular driver. A big driver in the insurance sector is payment protection insurance, but it is not sold by the general insurance providers. We have found that complaints spiked approximately 18 months ago, but they have been coming down significantly. In the banking sector issues about mortgages, loans and repayment terms have been a significant driver of complaints. The reason for each is very clear because payment protection insurance, loans and mortgages are of particular concern to those in financial distress. Generally, the numbers of complaints have been coming down; in particular, the number of complaints about payment protection insurance has been coming down significantly in the past year.

Between 70% and 80% of complaints are not upheld, the bulk of which would be in the areas covered in the previous question. Why were they not upheld? Is it because they are settled, because they are frivolous or the ombudsman cannot prove the case?

Mr. William Prasifka

The way we released figures in the past gave an incomplete description of the work we had been doing. For example, in the last quarter of 2013, 78% of complaints were not upheld. This refers only to complaints that have gone all the way through to final adjudication. Approximately, between 50% and 60% would have been dropped between the time a complaint was made and final adjudication. Of the total number of complaints, the number of cases settled after a complaint had been made has averaged approximately 25% in recent years. That gives a full picture of the work of the ombudsman.

Is that 25% of the total number of complaints?

Mr. William Prasifka

That is right, 25% have been settled after the complaint was made to us. When other jurisdictions release their figures for the full year, they roll the cases settled after the complaint was made into the percentage upheld. That would mean that the percentage upheld would go from 22% to 47%. In some respects, the financial providers have an advantage over the consumer because they know us and have a record, many of the larger ones would have very extensive dealings with us and if a complaint was made, they would have a very good idea if it would be upheld. In these circumstances they have been settling cases. Sometimes they settle at a very advanced stage. In future reports we plan to try to set it out more clearly.

In a separate block in the graph.

Mr. William Prasifka

Yes, it will be a separate block to show what they are doing.

In response to the question as to why we did not uphold more complaints, we have a statutory duty to consider matters impartially and independently; therefore, we can never say we will uphold more or fewer complaints this year than last year. We must have the same methodology. There are a couple of reasons we do not uphold more complaints, one of which is that many complaints are driven by people in financial distress; they simply do not have the money and this may be their last throw of the dice and their only means of dealing with the issue. We hope that as the economy begins to improve and more people are working, there will be fewer people in financial distress. That would help to reduce complaint levels. The second reason is that it is quite obvious to us that there are many people who do not fully understand the products they have bought, how they work or what their rights are; therefore, they make a complaint to us and we consider it independently. We have a very experienced and well trained staff who are engaged in continuous education, many of whom have many years of experience in the area and are familiar with the various products on offer and policies in place and can give people an independent view of their rights. I have always believed it is a very important service that we provide, to give people at least the reassurance that someone with experience and expertise has considered their issues.

I have been in this job almost five years and my experience is that we get very few frivolous complaints. Many people do not understand the products they have and we provide the service of explaining such products and clearly explaining rights. From the thousands of complaints I have dealt with, I can count the frivolous ones on one hand.

Mr. Prasifka makes an important point because in some debates the bogeyman of frivolous complaints has been raised and some of us have suggested this is a red herring. Regarding complaints that are not upheld, I take the point about people not understanding the products they bought. Some people might say financial service providers should take greater responsibility to explain things properly. People may not be fully informed of matters covered in small print.

I wonder about the burden of proof in disputed situations and how it works. Must a person making a complaint against a service provider prove beyond reasonable doubt that the complaint is justified or is it decided on the balance of probability? I know of cases where people made complaints to a financial institution relating to decisions perceived as unfair. As far as I was concerned the complainants were honest and the complaints were true but the bank simply said "you cannot prove it so tough luck". In one case the person was a long-standing customer of a financial institution and there was not enough money at stake for anyone to believe the customer was playing fast and loose with the institution to make a few bob. However, the customer could not absolutely prove the case. How does the Financial Services Ombudsman deal with such cases?

Deputy Michelle Mulherin took the Chair.

Mr. William Prasifka

We were set up as an alternative to the courts. As I said in my opening statement, when we deal with a complaint we are required to act in an informal manner according to equity, good conscience and the substantial merits of the complaint without regard to technicality or legal form. We do not operate under a criminal burden of proof and our fairness is our overall guide. The question relates to what is fair in the circumstances.

The obligations on financial institutions under the consumer protection code of conduct require that they act in the best interests of customers. Financial institutions are required to sell products suitable to customers and to get to know them. These are the kinds of points we deal with. Our actions are more scrutinised by the courts than those of any other ombudsman scheme in the world and the courts have forced us to deal with complaints in a more legalistic manner. Having said this, our fundamental ethos is fairness and we do not require proof beyond reasonable doubt. We need complainants to make a substantial effort to put their cases to us and we judge the cases on the substantive merits. The office focuses on fairness.

I will pick on something Deputy Boyd Barrett said. Mr. Prasifka described what a product is and it could be an insurance policy. I have encountered cases where people thought they had bought life assurance but after a spouse died they learned that exclusion clauses may mean one type of heart condition is covered and another is not. I am confident that these people were not aware of the distinctions and that they were not explained. People must disclose treatments and conditions when taking out policies but, assuming this is done correctly, do many people make complaints about unfair exclusion clauses in life assurance policies? Has the Financial Services Ombudsman had success overturning decisions by life assurance companies not to indemnify on the death of a spouse?

Motor insurance is a topical issue, unfortunately, in my county of Mayo and the same applies elsewhere in the country. Hundreds of cars have been destroyed in Mayo due to petrol stretching and contaminated petrol and I understand that third party, fire and theft insurance does not cover such damage. However, a number of affected people with comprehensive insurance have brought to my attention the fact that insurance companies have been slow to indemnify in such circumstances, though an assessor may be sent quickly. Has the Financial Services Ombudsman had complaints in this regard or relating to diesel laundering, though the latter may have less influence on the operation of a vehicle?

I have received many complaints relating to the National Asset Management Agency, NAMA. I know the transactions involved are substantial and the people involved may not have recourse to the Financial Services Ombudsman but can Mr. Prasifka envisage his office taking a role in such complaints? NAMA is all-powerful and it is touting for joint venture and loans business in the area of development so I wonder whether it could fall under the remit of the Financial Services Ombudsman. I would be relieved if the Financial Services Ombudsman could deal with NAMA. What is Mr. Prasifka's view on this? NAMA is expanding its remit and giving money for development.

Mr. William Prasifka

The first question related to our experience dealing with exclusion clauses and this is something we do on an everyday basis. We fully understand the difficulty that some people face as they believe that when they buy a critical illness policy and something happens, they will get paid. People learn, on reading policies, that only certain types of illness are covered and some of the definitions are very technical. We go through these matters on a case-by-case basis and we first examine what the contract says.

In terms of disclosures, the common law rule in Ireland is one of uberrima fides. The contract of insurance is one of utmost good faith. There is an obligation of disclosure but there is also an obligation on the financial service provider to ask the right questions. We have had a number of cases where financial service providers were claiming non-disclosure in circumstances where they had simply failed to ask the relevant questions properly or clearly enough in order to place the burden back onto the customer. This is a matter with which we deal all the time. Ultimately, what we want to happen is not for us to be obliged to uphold more complaints but rather for standards to be raised. What needs to be done in some of these areas is that more information must be provided at point of sale so that people will be better informed when they are buying the product. That is why we are taking some degree of satisfaction from an overall drop in the number of complaints, particularly if this is an indication that standards are improving. One element of better performance is for providers to settle more cases after complaints have been made. An even better way of dealing with the situation is to obviate the need for people to make complaints as a result of providers changing their practices. We have seen some progress in this regard. We take a very firm view that the burden must be on the provider to ask the correct questions and to do this in a way that is understandable.

How was this demonstrated to Mr. Prasifka's office? Was it by means of a list of questions?

Mr. William Prasifka

Yes, and by the clarity of the questions posed. The questions must be asked in a way which enables people to understand fairly the information being elicited from them. I was asked about cases relating to motor cars and contaminated petrol and diesel laundering. In four and a half years, I do not recall a single case of this nature coming across my desk. This does not mean that we have not dealt with such cases but I believe there would be fewer than a handful of them. In such cases we would be obliged to examine the contract terms to establish what is covered. We would also need to establish whether those terms were interpreted fairly and reasonably. Again, this is not something which represents a significant part of our work.

My legal adviser will correct me if I am wrong but I understand that NAMA is not a regulated financial services provider. As a result, it does not come within our remit.

Would Mr. Prasifka have any objection to NAMA coming within his office's remit if the position relating to it changed?

Mr. William Prasifka

Properly understood, the role of an ombudsman relates to a rather unique jurisdiction. We have special powers and we are charged with acting informally, expeditiously and without regard to the legal technicalities. That really is a service for consumers, as we would properly understand the meaning of what constitutes a consumer. NAMA does not deal with consumers. It deals with people who are involved with more substantial economic entities. I have not really researched this matter but it would not seem like a good fit for our office.

On behalf of the joint committee, I thank our guests for attending and for engaging in a constructive and wide-ranging discussion.

Mr. William Prasifka

It is always a pleasure.

I remind members that our next meeting will take place in committee room 4 at 4 p.m. on 19 November next, when we will discuss translation services for an Coimisinéir Teanga.

The joint committee adjourned at 5.35 p.m. until 4 p.m. on Wednesday, 19 November 2014.
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