JOINT COMMITTEE ON SOCIAL AND FAMILY AFFAIRS debate -
Wednesday, 28 Oct 2009

National Strategy on Homelessness: Discussion with Simon Communities of Ireland.

Vice Chairman

We will now hear a presentation on the perspective and experiences of the Simon Communities in the implementation of the national strategy on homelessness. I welcome the representatives from Simon Communities: Ms Niamh Allen, communications officer; Ms Niamh Randall, national research and policy manager; Ms Marlene O'Connor, CEO, Galway Simon Community; and Mr. Tony O'Riordan, CEO, Midlands Simon Community. In a moment I will ask Ms Randall to commence her presentation.

I draw the attention of the witnesses to the fact that members of the committee have absolute privilege, but the same privilege does not apply to witnesses appearing before the committee. I am sorry about that. Members are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that members should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the House or an official by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable.

The representatives are particularly welcome. I am sorry that because of the nature of the Dáil day some of my colleagues on the committee are elsewhere, including the Chairman, Deputy Healy-Rae, and the Fine Gael spokesperson, Deputy Enright.

Senator Nicky McFadden

She has a good reason.

Vice Chairman

We are happy to have the representatives here and we wish them well. I believe Ms Randall will make the presentation.

Ms Niamh Randall

I offer sincere apologies on behalf of Patrick Burke, who was ill this morning and unable to attend.

Vice Chairman

I should have mentioned that Mr. Burke is well known to us and we wish him well. Ms Randall might convey that to him.

Ms Niamh Randall

I will. Thank you.

The Simon Communities of Ireland welcome the opportunity to meet the committee today and we thank the members for taking time out of their busy schedules. I am aware of the time constraints so I will be quick in getting to the main points.

The Simon Communities of Ireland provide the best possible care, accommodation and support for people experiencing homelessness and those at risk. Together with people who are homeless, we tackle the root causes of homelessness, promote innovative responses and urge the Government to fulfil its commitments. Simon delivers support and services to almost 5,000 people who experience or are at risk of homelessness every year.

The Simon Communities is an affiliation of local communities in Cork, Dublin, Dundalk, Galway, the midlands, the mid-west, the north west and the south east. In addition, the national office performs a co-ordinating role in terms of campaigning in the areas of housing and homeless policy, the wider poverty and social inclusion agenda, best practice in service delivery and working with people who are homeless, and in the area of full-time volunteering promoting excellence and providing accredited training. Members will see an attached list showing the ways we work in this area.

We appreciate the remit of this committee and will focus on those issues which the committee can influence. However, initially we would like to give a quick update on the current context in which we are working. We are acutely aware of the pressures associated with the fiscal crisis and the fact that difficult decisions must be made. However, we wish to highlight a number of issues based on our knowledge and experience for almost four decades in working with people who are homeless and at risk of homelessness throughout Ireland.

The Government has pledged to end the need to sleep rough and long-term homelessness by 2010. The Way Home — A Strategy to Address Adult Homelessness in Ireland, along with the homelessness strategy national implementation plan offers a blueprint to facilitate the realisation of these key commitments. The Government is cutting funding from essential services working towards these goals. Simon communities throughout the country are under increasing pressure in terms of funding with reductions in statutory funding across a range of budget lines and uncertainty in terms of voluntary donations. In addition, the communities are responding to increased demands and are bracing themselves for an increase in those turning to their services for support in the coming months. The recession means more people are at risk of homelessness, more people will become homeless and more people will turn to the Simon communities for support.

Housing is important, but homelessness is about more than housing. It is also about physical and mental health, drug and alcohol use and is often about complex needs. The long-term accommodation and support needs of people who are homeless are not being met currently. The 2010 commitments cannot be met until accommodation and health and social care needs are addressed. More information on the current context will be found in the appendix on page 7.

The Department of Social and Family Affairs plays an essential role both in preventing people from becoming homeless and in facilitating people to move out of homelessness though welfare and family support services. It is critical that vulnerable groups are not impacted further with changes in the budget for 2010. Of particular concern are recent changes to the rent supplement scheme and the habitual residence condition. As most members are probably aware, the rent supplement scheme is a supplementary allowance available to those who cannot cover the cost of rental accommodation from their own finances. In general, households qualify for rent supplement if their only income is a social welfare or Health Service Executive, HSE, payment and they satisfy a number of other rules. Rent supplement payments are intended to prevent household incomes from falling below the relative income poverty line after payment of rent. Rent supplement offers a safety net for people at a time of real crisis preventing them from becoming homeless or returning to homelessness.

However, there are a number of difficulties associated with this scheme. It can be difficult to access and landlords are not always willing to accept rent supplement payments. Sometimes the rent supplement amount is not enough to meet the full cost of renting and many landlords require tenants to pay an additional top-up to their personal contribution, often from their own limited resources. This often results in people doing without basic necessities such as food to avoid the risk of eviction. There are currently 90,825 households in receipt of rent supplement in the State, an increase of 52% since the end of 2007.

Changes in the operation of this scheme as part of the 2009 budget and the 2009 supplementary budget have put increased financial pressure on people and families on low incomes, increasing their risk of becoming homeless. The changes in the 2009 budget meant that the minimum contribution of households in receipt of rent supplement was increased from €13 per week to €18 per week. In addition, the changes in the 2009 supplementary budget meant that entitlement to rent supplement was restricted to households who were living in rented accommodation or in accommodation for homeless people for at least six months in the previous 12 months or who were on a local authority housing list following a full housing assessment. The minimum household contribution was further increased from €18 to €24. The maximum rent limits were reduced by between 6% and 10% depending on geographical area and household size. Rent supplement payments currently being made to tenants were reduced by 8% to encourage landlords of existing rent supplement tenants to reduce their rents.

The reductions in rent supplement were argued on the basis of a decline in rental markets. However, while rent reductions are undoubtedly being experienced at the higher end of the market, these are not necessarily being felt at the lower end where the majority of people who are poor and vulnerable reside. Evidence produced by Threshold suggests that in high demand areas, especially at the lower end of the rental market, rents are not falling as fast as elsewhere, if at all. Thus, many people who are already living in poverty are not benefiting from such rent reductions and yet are being penalised by reductions in State support.

These changes will put more individuals and families at increased risk of homelessness. The combined increase in the tenants' contribution from €13 per week to €24 per week represents an increase of 85%. We also fear that these changes will pressurise already vulnerable tenants to increase their personal contribution with further topping up, thus diminishing their limited resources and increasing their vulnerability and risk of homelessness. In addition, while a central tenet of the national homeless strategy is prevention, recent changes may mean some households become homeless as they do not meet the tighter eligibility criteria. For example, they might not be living in private rented accommodation or in accommodation for people who are homeless for six of the previous 12 months or they may not have had a full housing needs assessment, HNA, for which there are waiting lists. Thus some households clearly at risk may fall through this vital safety net for administrative reasons.

Many members will be familiar with the habitual residence condition, HRC. However, an additional criterion for qualifying for certain social assistance payments was introduced in May 2004. Since its introduction there have been changes with regard to family payments for those from the European Union and the European Economic Area member states, which we welcome. However, this condition continues to have very real implications, especially for those from EU-EEA member states with no work history and for non-EU-EEA nationals. The HRC is having a particular impact on the following groups of people: those with limited or inconsistent work history; those who were employed and had assumed their employer had filed appropriate documentation on their behalf who, since becoming unemployed, have discovered this is not the case; people who came to Ireland in pursuit of a better life for whom things may not have worked out; and those who meet the HRC criteria but concerning whom the guidelines are being misinterpreted.

A study undertaken in Dublin in one week in December 2006 identified that 283 EU-ten migrants were using homeless services. Of those, 170 agreed to participate in a survey. This survey looked a range of factors, including housing status, and found high levels of housing instability, homelessness risk and homelessness, as is shown in the accompanying table. If members look at the bottom of the table they will see that 36% reported they had applied for State assistance but were rejected. In addition, in Counted In 2008 — The Rough Sleeper Findings, which are confined to Dublin, 110 people were identified as sleeping rough in the Dublin area. This is down from 185 in 2005. However, there was a large increase in the number of non-Irish nationals who reported sleeping rough — from one in ten people, or 9%, sleeping rough in 2005 to two out every five people, or 37.6%, who reported sleeping rough in 2008.

The implications are that the HRC is putting people at risk of homelessness and is causing homelessness. This is increasing pressure on already stretched homelessness services. There is inconsistency in the interpretation of the rules and guidelines surrounding the HRC. There is no reference to the habitual residence condition and its implications for homelessness services in the national homelessness strategy or the implementation plan. This issue is not being addressed in any meaningful way at a policy level.

I will now hand over to my colleagues, Ms Marlene O'Connor, the chief executive officer of Galway Simon Community, and Mr. Tony O'Riordan, chief executive officer of Midlands Simon Community, who will talk members through a number of case studies which demonstrate the impact of these changes.

Ms Marlene O’Connor

One of the services we provide in Galway is a day centre. Within the past year, people of 55 different nationalities accessed services in the day centre. They came primarily from eastern Europe but also from other parts of the world. I will talk about two people whom I came across in recent days.

Paul is in his 40s. He is originally from one of the EU member states, came to Ireland in 2001 and began to work. He lost his job through the economic downturn but initially was able to claim and receive rent allowance. Unfortunately, because he has very poor mental health he lost his accommodation. He began to look for other accommodation but in the interim was sleeping rough. I have seen where he has been sleeping. The accommodation he can access in Galway costs €500 per month. The rent allowance level which he is able to claim is €97 per week. This leaves him with a shortfall of €112 in each four week period. His rent costs are €112 which he must pay himself from his social welfare payment, which is in addition to his rent supplement. This obviously leaves him quite short of money for food, clothes and other necessities. He is very concerned about instances of people who are topping up the rent to the landlord being denied rent allowance by the community welfare officer when that officer discovers they are topping up. He is basically in a no-win situation. He cannot afford to top up the balance himself and, in fairness, does not believe he should be doing it. However, he also runs the real risk of losing rent supplement altogether if he tops up the rent. He is in a catch-22 situation.

The other person I came across is a much younger man who is in his late teens. He arrived from his home in Europe and has a severe and diagnosed mental health problem. He is unable to access any payment because he has no work record in Ireland. He is finding it extremely difficult to access adequate mental health services. The money he had on arrival in Ireland has run out. He is no longer able to pay for the private tourist hostel. He has no hope of getting into the emergency hostel which is already full. That hostel is operating on the basis that it is full to capacity. People get respite there for a few nights, go back on the street and then get respite again. We believe we will be able to enable that young man to return home within the next week or so in which case his circumstances will be much less extreme. Those are two small examples of people who have got caught in the system which does not cope with their circumstances which are by no means unusual.

Mr. Tony O’Riordan

The Midlands Simon Community, with which I work, provides emergency accommodation and also a regional settlement service. That service helps people to move into and sustain that accommodation. We work with people who are at risk of and experience homelessness throughout the midlands counties of Laois, Longford, Offaly and Westmeath.

I avail of the opportunity to outline the difficulties in getting affordable accommodation in the private rented sector for people in receipt of rent supplement and emphasise that what is available is of very poor quality. I would also like to give examples of delays in rent supplement as a result of the potential changes whereby the local authority must complete a housing needs assessment prior to the community welfare officer progressing a payment.

In the midlands region it is difficult to get affordable accommodation. We acknowledge that rents have decreased in the past year by about 10% to 15%, that is, €25 to €50 per month. We work predominantly with single people. Given that rent supplement has been reduced, a single person now in receipt of €94 will have to pay €24. The majority of accommodation available for single people costs approximately €450 per month. If a person can get accommodation at that price he or she will have to top it up with an extra €40 per month from their own resources. As my colleague, Ms Marlene O'Connor, has outlined this has an effect on the already limited resources of the people with whom we work. It means they have to make difficult choices around food, heating and other essentials. Because of the lack of affordable accommodation it takes longer to find same, thus the process of helping people to move out of homelessness takes longer.

The accommodation that is available at less than €450 per month is of very poor quality. Last week one of our settlement workers accompanied a service user, an emergency case, who wants to move out of a hostel and into a home of his own but the available accommodation which costs €500 per month was damp, had limited heating and paint peeling off the walls. Some accommodation is available but it is of poor quality. That is even more of a challenge given the profile of the people with whom we work who are struggling with poor mental health while a considerable number are recovering from addiction.

I wish to highlight the difficulties experienced as a result of the supplementary budget whereby people, once they find accommodation, must go to the local authority to complete a housing needs assessment prior to the community welfare officer processing their application. There is a backlog in the local authority given that it has to complete the housing needs assessment from within its existing resources. The effect is that pressure is put on tenants and often they move into accommodation and get into arrears within a short time which is a regular occurrence. The matters Ms O'Connor and I have outlined are the daily issues, that of trying to assist people move from hostel-type accommodation into more suitable long-term accommodation.

I have outlined the blocks and the challenges in respect of the rent supplement. I acknowledge the significant advancement of services in the midlands with the support of the local authorities in counties Laois, Longford, Offaly and Westmeath, the HSE and the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government but there are significant challenges for us in supporting single people.

Ms Niamh Randall

I thank the members of the joint committee for the invitation to address it. We would ask for the support of the committee in a number of key areas. First and foremost, the poor and vulnerable, whom the Government has repeatedly pledged to protect, must be protected from further cuts in budget 2010. There must be no further cuts to the rent supplement scheme as part of budget 2010. The Department of Social and Family Affairs, in conjunction with the social partners, must conduct an impact assessment of the budget 2009 and supplementary budget 2009 changes to the rent supplement and claimants before any further changes to this benefit are made. The habitual residence condition and its impact in terms of homelessness and increasing the pressure on homeless services must be addressed at a policy level. Acknowledging the cross-cutting nature of the habitual residence condition, the Department of Social and Family Affairs in conjunction with the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform and the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government and the social partners, must conduct an impact assessment of the condition in regard to increasing homelessness and the risk of same.

We hope the joint committee will continue to remind the Government of its commitments to end long-term homelessness and the need to sleep rough by 2010 and to monitor the implementation of the national homelessness strategy and implementation plan. We would appreciate the opportunity to return to the joint committee in the future to report on the Simon Communities of Ireland's perspective on these issues at this critical time.

Vice Chairman

I thank the delegation for its presentation. I am sure I speak on behalf of all my colleagues in complimenting Simon on its excellent work in all our communities. I propose to invite my colleagues to ask questions which I will bank and Ms Randall can decide which of her colleagues will respond.

Deputy Róisín Shortall

I welcome the delegation and join with the Chairman in commending Simon on its outstanding work throughout the country with the increasing number of people living on the margins. I would hope, arising from this meeting, that we might take up the whole issue of the rent supplement, and make recommendations to the Minister prior to the budget, because it is an issue that is of concern to many people working in this area. While the homeless strategy is in place there is a disconnect between it and the actions of the Minister for Social and Family Affairs over the last two budgets, as the two increases in the rent contribution and the arbitrary reduction in rents have imposed an enormous financial burden on those who are dependent on rent supplement. For economists and others who speak about the reduction in the CPI in the past year and use it as a justification for cutting social welfare rates, clearly these figures give the lie to that claim because the 91,000 households who are dependent on rent supplement have experienced a very significant reduction in the purchasing power of their income. Many of us warned about this at the last two budgets when people were required to increase their contribution to the rent and also the decision to cut rents across the board. We warned that one cannot expect people in vulnerable situations, such as tenants in receipt of rent supplement, to negotiate with their landlords to reduce their rent. If they have a lease, there is agreement on the rent, the law is on the side of the landlord so how on Earth could a person in that position negotiate a reduction in rent? If there was to have been a reduction in rent, which was a valid view to take given what was happening nationally regarding rent, it should have been done by the State. I would like to know the experience of tenants regarding seeking an 8% reduction. Has the delegation any sense of the number who have achieved that reduction? What has been the response from landlords?

The objective of moving people from rent supplement to the residential accommodation scheme makes sense. If the State was prepared to take over responsibility for managing this element of the private rented sector, it could achieve significant savings in driving down rents, but it would need to be involved in doing that. Why are people not moving from rent supplement to the RAS scheme? What is the logjam?

The delegation said the 2008 strategy would not be realised by 2010 as it is supposed to be. Who is responsible for overseeing that strategy and its implementation? Who is monitoring it? What role does the Department of Social and Family Affairs have in that scheme? As I said earlier, it seems to be working against the strategy. It is an issue I would like us to pursue here.

What has the impact of the recession been over the past year or so on the Simon Communities generally in terms of the number of clients they are dealing with? How have the volunteers responded? Has there been an improvement in volunteers or otherwise? What impact has the recession had on fund raising?

Vice Chairman

There are a number of ways in which we can deal with the issue raised. We can agree in private session at the end of the meeting to send a transcript of this session to the Minister. We can also deal with the issue at the next meeting.

Deputy Róisín Shortall

I think it would be a good idea for us to engage with the issue and make firm recommendations to the Minister.

Vice Chairman

Absolutely. We will list that.

Senator Rónán Mullen

Cuirim fáilte roimh an bpainéal agus gabhaim buíochas leo as ucht teacht anseo inniu agus as an dea-obair atá idir lámha acu ar ár son uilig. Go n-éirí leo.

Everyone is agreed that the general thrust of the Government's national strategy on homelessness has a specific focus on supporting people to move out of homelessness and into a home of their own, which is what is most conducive to the dignity of people and which we all want to support. It is humane and, it is to be hoped, cost effective. We have spoken a lot about the private rented sector so far, but its strikes me that there are many people for whom it might not be suitable, such as those with particular complex needs, addiction problems or mental health issues. The delegation might address the question of whether the private rented sector provides the solution in every case. For example, are there other ways of addressing the particular needs of those who have been in institutional care?

I ask the delegation to clarify a number of factual issues. Forgive me for my lack of understanding which I ought to have on the issue of the top-up but I understood a contribution is made by the person who is in receipt of rent supplement. The delegation referred to the question of people being required to pay top-ups and in its submission it notes this practice is illegal. What is the precise position? If a person has entered into a tenancy arrangement with a landlord for X amount of monthly rent and it emerges that the rent supplement will be X minus Y, is it illegal for the landlord to require that the difference be paid monthly? Can the delegation clarify that point? I apologise if I am asking a rent supplement 101 question, so to speak. I would welcome clarification on that because it strikes me from everything that has been said that it is a widespread practice and that there is a difference to be made up. In what sense is the practice illegal or is it an aspect of the law which is completely flouted?

Can the delegation discuss the differential of the figure of 56,000 people on housing waiting lists and the more than 90,000 on rent supplement? In what circumstances are people who are on rent supplement not on a waiting list? I would like some idea of the profile of such people. Deputy Shortall referred to the RAS scheme. What type of numbers are involved in it nationally? I would welcome the answer to that question.

Deputy Seymour Crawford

I welcome the Simon Communities here today and record our appreciation of all the great work they do. A few of my questions have been asked so I will not go over them. The main issue I have is twofold, namely, single men and the habitual residence condition.

I raise the second issue for many reasons. There is often a problem where a family member returns home for the sole reason of caring for an elderly parent and to save him or her from going into a nursing home or whatever else, but because the family member concerned has not been living in the country for some time, he or she does not receive the allowance. It is causing serious problems in many areas. An increase of 85% in the payment contribution is unacceptable, especially if the social welfare limits are reduced. I may have misunderstood one issue in this context but Mr. O'Riordan referred to a €94 payment for a single person.

The other issue is that of fund-raising. Many of the larger companies which were generous to all sorts of organisations in the past will not be able to make donations. Some have gone out of business. What impact has that had on the delegation's funding? How is the organisation funded? I ask the representatives to give the committee some idea of where their main funding comes from.

A major issue in the country is that many houses are now lying idle because of oversupply and prices have often dropped considerably. There is a genuine reason for the relevant authorities to look at those houses or flats and move people from rent supplement to permanent accommodation.

There is a major problem with addicts, especially those who are addicted to alcohol, which is a significant problem in my constituency of Cavan-Monaghan. In years gone by there was no money in the country, but such people could get a brilliant service in St. Alban's complex in Monaghan where there was a special unit for dealing with alcoholics. Nowadays such people have to go to Newry or elsewhere and significant numbers of them are living in very poor conditions or on the streets. It is completely unnecessary when beds in institutions which could be utilised are lying empty.

A great deal more pressure should be put on the HSE and other organisations to ensure the accommodation available is properly utilised and to try to bring these people back. Some experts say this approach did not work and that this or that should be done but history has proved that people who went into such accommodation did extremely well when they came out. They have become excellent citizens and many have gone into full employment. We are going backwards in respect of dealing with alcohol addiction. A further problem is that alcohol is so freely available and people can easily buy it in packs. I would like to hear the representatives' comments on that point.

Senator Nicky McFadden

I join my colleagues in welcoming the representatives here. I thank them all but especially my local organisation led by Tony O'Riordan which does fantastic work in the midlands. I am concerned about the delay in the housing needs assessment. Is the Government procrastinating to frustrate people and services? People need to be housed. Why do members of the local authorities have to assess people who are on the housing list? That is quite frustrating.

Housing single men is a big problem in my area. Is there any provision for them? Many of these men live in substandard accommodation and those who have access to their children at weekends end up bringing them to McDonalds because they have no proper home. The Way Home was a fantastic aspirational document but how can we alleviate the terrible pain and stress affecting families? Many people are sleeping on couches and floors in other people's homes. They are homeless because they have no fixed abode. We need to thrash out the definition of homelessness.

There has been a 25% increase in the number of people accessing the Simon Communities' services. I come from an urban area but there is a large surrounding rural area in Westmeath. There are people down on their luck who live in isolated rural areas. I would like to hear a comment on their situation. There should be a focus on rural homelessness which is as important if not more important than urban homelessness. There are no services in rural areas.

The settlement programme has the best outcomes because it gives people the life skills they need to remain in proper dignified homes. I compliment Simon on that because it is the best service.

Deputy Joe Carey

I join my colleagues in thanking the Simon Communities for a wonderful presentation and for the work it does on the ground. The fact that 91,000 people depend on rent allowance says a great deal. They are suffering a double whammy because the Government increased the contribution and lowered the amount given. The State would make significant savings if more people were in the rental accommodation scheme, RAS, but there is a problem in moving people from rent supplement to the RAS. This committee needs to examine this area and how the Government could encourage people to move to RAS. Maybe RAS needs to be changed or amended. Several people in RAS have contacted me because they cannot move to standard local authority housing. That may deter people from joining RAS.

Simon says it has 5,000 clients. Has it broken them down by age, sex, nationality and so on. Which group is most affected by the recession? Is there a nationality bias? Ms O'Connor mentioned two cases of foreign nationals in Galway.

Senator Nicky McFadden

In respect of the illegal top-up for rent supplement somebody said the client runs the risk of being refused or excluded from rent supplement. Is it right that the person who is trying to top up his or her rent because he or she has no choice is penalised, rather than the landlord who is looking for excess money? In many of this committee's discussions we have asked for regularisation of the community welfare officers and how they deal with people.

Deputy Róisín Shortall

I wish to excuse myself because I must attend a meeting at 12 o'clock but I will be very interested to read the representatives' replies to our questions in the Official Report.

Senator Larry Butler

I thank the representatives from the Simon Communities for the wonderful work it does around the country. Without that work it would be almost impossible to deal with some cases. How does Simon categorise the people it deals with? One can be homeless for any number of reasons, whether an alcohol problem, a break-up in the home, addiction or inability to pay rent. How does Simon find suitable accommodation for people? The same accommodation will not suit everybody? Even if it had all the money in the world this would be a problem. Private landlords do not want people with addiction problems who will cause problems. Private sector accommodation is probably not suitable for most of the people with whom Simon deals. Is it more reasonable to seek sheltered accommodation or to go through county councils? It is important to understand how Simon deals with that problem. How do we deal with the 91,000 currently being paid rent allowance? They are not all homeless or dealing with addiction problems. What type of accommodation are they looking for?

The rental accommodation scheme is very important, it gives control to local authorities and the Government to be able to deal with a certain sector. We all know there is plenty of accommodation, the problem is knowing how to allot it. NAMA offers a great opportunity to bring housing into this scheme but it will cost money. The money should go to local authorities to buy accommodation in particular areas. It should be looked at. The Bill for NAMA is being debated at the moment and I would like to see if there will be a housing sector in the agency. We need a report on the type of accommodation needed, the sort of people who will use it and where they will go.

We must get real. People are coming into this country, as the Simon Community is seeing at present, and it might be possible to send them home. Is money available to resettle people if they have better accommodation or better social support at home for their problems? If someone goes to America, New Zealand, Canada or Australia, before he goes he would find out about accommodation. It was stated that this gentleman had run out of money. How well do we advertise that there are major problems for certain sectors before they come here?

My questions are perhaps difficult and it might not be possible to answer them all but we must be aware of the entire situation if we are to solve it.

Vice Chairman

There will be provision for the delegation to pass on information if it wishes after the meeting.

Ms Niamh Randall

We thank the committee for the supportive and insightful comments. We will do our best to respond and if we miss any points, the committee can pick us up on them.

A possible recommendation to the Minister from the committee would be most welcome and we thank the committee for the suggestion. The disconnect at different policy levels is something we regularly experience. There is a lack of joined up thinking, where a policy change has an unintended consequence that makes people more vulnerable to homelessness. We would argue that policy should be homeless-proofed so it does not increase the risk of homelessness.

We do not believe the 2010 commitments cannot be achieved, they can be achieved with renewed energy and renewed vigour and they must be achieved. It is critical that we respond to the needs of people who are most vulnerable in the State at this time. The Minister of State in the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government has primary responsibility for the strategy and its implementation. We have received a great deal of personal support from the Minister and there have been worthwhile developments in terms of the supported living initiative, an excellent initiative, although we are concerned that it focuses on those with low to medium support needs while not targeting those with more complex needs, many of whom we meet in our services around the country. The implementation of the scheme outside of Dublin is also a matter of concern. The focus is Dublin-centred and we are concerned about the wider implications.

The National Homelessness Consultative Committee acknowledges that homelessness is a multi-faceted issue that involves a range of players across Departments. The frequency of meetings is a source of concern for us there. We would like to see monthly meetings in 2010 so we could monitor progress of the strategy, allowing us to reach the 2010 commitments.

We included a piece in appendix 3 of our presentation on the rental accommodation scheme, RAS. To date, local authorities have transferred almost 12,000 rent supplement cases to the rental accommodation scheme. It is restricted in that normally it caters for those who have been in rented accommodation for 18 months and the roll out of the scheme has been very slow. There are commitments that the pace will be increased and to review the scheme before the end of the year. We have not received any information on how that will happen, however, and we are interested in that and anxious to participate.

The impact of the recession has increased pressure on our services around the country. There is increased demand for services, with the trickle starting to become visible. When people initially run into difficulties, they do not turn to homeless services, they turn to friends and family, they borrow money, they go to MABS and the Society of St. Vincent de Paul. We are now seeing a slow trickle into our services, particularly on the emergency side in larger urban centres. There is definitely an increase in demand and we will continue to monitor it and supply the committee with up to date information on it.

There has been an increased interest in volunteering. We enjoy a huge amount of support and interest from full and part-time volunteers. People might have a difficulty with their own employment prospects and see that volunteering is a realistic option to pick up new skills and to get some work experience.

We receive great support in fund-raising from individuals around the country. Corporate social responsibility programmes are a larger issue, where larger corporate bodies might have to reduce their corporate social responsibility spend, which is understandable at this current point. All of this means that communities around the country are looking at increased uncertainty across a range of factors in terms of statutory funding, voluntary donations and corporate social responsibility schemes at a time of increased demand for services.

Ms Marlene O’Connor

In Galway we get two thirds of our funding from the statutory services. Of that, two thirds comes from the HSE and a third from Galway City Council and the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government. The final third we raise ourselves through street collections. As Ms Randall pointed out, there has been a major increase in the numbers of people willing to volunteer. We could not deliver many of our services to the level we do without volunteers. So far this year our fund raising has held up but we expect things will be more difficult next year because there will be more demands on the services. We are hoping against hope that the statutory funding we get will hold up. We are realistic, however, in thinking that may not be the case, in which case fund raising will become more important and possibly more difficult.

Deputy Shortall asked about the difference between the 91,000 households on rent supplement and the 56,000 on local authority housing waiting lists. There are two reasons for that difference. First, unless a person is deemed to have a long-term housing need, he will not get on the local authority housing waiting list. A young person will not be deemed to have a long-term housing need, instead he will be seen to have a short-term housing need. He will get rent supplement but will not get on the local authority housing waiting lists.

The other divergence is the number of people who have registered as having a housing need but who have not undergone a housing needs assessment and are not, therefore, on the housing waiting lists. Until now, if a person had registered as having a housing need and had a stamped docket from the local authority, he was eligible for rent allowance. Unfortunately, that changed within the last year and there must now be a full housing needs assessment before receiving rent allowance. What happens in the interim particularly if one is homeless? One cannot get rent allowance and probably one has used up all the credit of family and friends that will be available and one is obviously in a much worse situation if one is in homeless services. That is a real problem.

The aim of the homeless strategy is that from next year people will spend no longer than six months in emergency accommodation before moving out or they need to sleep rough. The changes to the rent supplement provide that one will not get rent supplement unless one has spent 183 days in the private rented sector or in homeless services in the previous year. I cannot get my head around that. Why the requirement for 183 days in homeless services before one can get rent allowance? Yet, the commitment is that one will not spend longer than six months in emergency accommodation before moving on to a more settled place.

We say that the solution to homelessness is a home but one also needs the supports necessary to maintain it. By and large, people who have been homeless and have lived either on the streets or in emergency accommodation almost invariably have complex needs, arising from poor mental health, frequently poor and deteriorating physical health and either have active addictions or are recovering from addictions. As a result of those circumstances, if people move out of emergency accommodation, a home of whatever category, to use Senator Butler's expression, and unless they are given the supports necessary to maintain that home and build a life there, they will not be able to maintain that accommodation and they will go back on to the street or into emergency accommodation. The solution to homelessness is a home but there will have to be the supports necessary to maintain it.

Deputy Shortall or some other member asked why is the tenant, who is the weakest part in the relationship between the State, the landlord and the tenant, required to negotiate the rent downwards? I have no idea. In that triangle, the tenant is the person who has the least amount of power. They have no bargaining power and can only negotiate around the worst condition of accommodation because there is nothing else available at the prices that can be afforded.

Deputy Carey asked about the range of people who contact our services. When I was a young woman I worked in Simon. At that time the majority of people with whom I worked were men in the 45 plus age group, single or separated. Many had returned from working in the UK, and occasionally in America, and many had alcohol problems. In Galway at present, the youngest person with whom we work is in the late teens and the oldest is in the mid-eighties while one third of those who use our services are women. We have 50 people in shared supported accommodation, some with 24-7 staff cover, some with floating support, and an additional 50 persons in move-on accommodation. They have gone through homeless services and are now living in the community in supported accommodation, through RAS, our own CAS apartments, local authority lettings and the private rented sector.

The private rented sector is probably the least suitable accommodation option for those moving out of homeless services and for those with complex needs because, as Senator Butler said, the private landlord has very little interest in maintaining that person in their accommodation for their own good. They do not have the experience, background, time or energy to work with that person which is why support services, such as those provided by Simon Communities, are very important to help that person maintain his or her accommodation. While they are not in the private rented sector, they are more likely to have good quality accommodation, the supports necessary to remain there and the security to know they can remain there at an affordable rent.

Vice Chairman

That contribution was helpful because it helps us to understand the issues. Does Mr. O'Riordan wish to say something further? For God's sake mention Longford-Westmeath so that I can keep one of my colleagues calm.

Mr. Tony O’Riordan

I will refer to the issue of rural homelessness. To add to what my colleague said, while 90% of those we support are moving into private rented accommodation, there is the challenge of supporting those with complex needs, for instance people who have had a life of addiction and who struggle with mental health. Senator Mullen posed the question of private rented accommodation, but that is not the solution for everyone. While that issue may fall outside the remit of this group, it must be realised that if the 2010 commitments are to be met, special provision will have to be made for those who need more support than private rented accommodation, a model that will look at a supported housing model for which there will have to be some additional capital commitments.

It is generally accepted that homelessness is not confined to large urban areas. Unfortunately, it is an issue in rural areas also. We are just one of the organisations in the midlands region and we work with more than 150 people. We have seen a 25% increase in the number of new referrals from local authorities. Those referrals are not from people who make casual contact with us but formal referrals from the local authorities, which are 25% up on 2008. This is not confined to the county towns in Laois, Longford, Offaly and Westmeath but throughout the region. Unfortunately, the problem is not visible as people have a stereotype image of homelessness. One third of those with whom we work are families, which is a statistic that may surprise people.

Ms Niamh Randall

I wish to come back in on a few points. There is a huge data deficit in regard to homelessness throughout the whole country so we are always operating in a vacuum. The housing needs assessment takes place every three years, the last one being 2005-2008. The count was carried out in Dublin and the major urban centres last year, that is, Limerick, Galway and Cork. We have a commitment that it will be carried out again next year but we argue that it should happen in every county so that we will have an idea of the number of people involved, particularly in the current climate when people are under increased pressure and there will be increased numbers and also in terms of those who are vulnerable to homelessness.

In terms a needs assessment, we do not know a great deal about the needs of everybody. We know about those who use Simon services and the different communities would know their particular needs. As I said previously, those who use Simon tend to have particularly complex needs. What the national figures tell us in regard to complex needs is that between 25% and 50% of those in homeless services have mental health issues and about 20% to 45% have a drug dependency, according to 2005 figures. In terms of alcohol dependency or certainly habitual alcohol use, we are talking about 29% to 51%. When we talk about people who use Simon services, we are talking about more complex scenes and the figures are even higher. Where these issues intersect, there may be dual diagnosis where a person has a mental health issue, a problem with alcohol and a chronic health condition. The question is how to meet their need in the long term.

We have argued across the board for having a menu of options because what works for one person will not necessarily work for another. One person might need intensive support for a short period to live independently, and private rented accommodation may be perfect for that, but there might be somebody who will always need intensive support. Somebody might need daily support and assistance but might still be able to live independently. We should support people who are able to live independently to do so. There are then those who Ms O'Connor referred to who would need to live in some kind of supported accommodation, perhaps for the rest of their lives. We should support their needs.

Deputy Crawford mentioned the Health Service Executive. It is critical to get that health and social care support for people, particularly those with more complex needs. We will argue for that type of cross-cutting response. The Department of Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs, which has responsibility for the national drugs strategy; the HSE or the Department of Health and Children, and the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government must knit together more tightly to respond to these issues more effectively.

The problem of rural homelessness is one of the reasons for Simon Communities of Ireland's current set-up because it is about responding to local issues locally. If people can remain in the area where they are from in contact with their local networks, friends, families, health care centre and the social welfare support people they know and see, they are likely to move out of homelessness much more quickly. We would advocate for that also.

Vice Chairman

Does Ms Randall wish to make a final remark?

Ms Niamh Randall

If there are no more questions I will just thank everybody again for their supportive comments and request that we can come back before the committee in, say, a year's time to update it on our position. We are a resource and if anybody has any questions about homelessness, housing or related issues they should feel free to contact us. If we do not have the information to hand we should be able to find it.

Vice Chairman

We will invite the representatives to come before the committee again when it is hoped all of us will still be here. I thank them for their presentation. All my colleagues made the point that we found it enlightening and it gave us an opportunity to support the work they do, with which I am happy to be associated.

The joint committee went into private session at 12.20 p.m. and adjourned at 12.40 p.m. until 11 a.m. on Wednesday, 11 November 2009.