I invite the Minister to comment on the concerns raised by the Irish Rural Dwellers Association at this committee with regard to the composition of An Bord Pleanála. We have written to the Department for its views and we await a reply. We told the association we would raise this issue with you when you attended before the committee.
An Bord Pleanála: Discussion with Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government.
Thank you, Chairman. I refer to the meeting of the Oireachtas joint committee on Tuesday, 27 May 2008, a copy of the transcript of which was sent to my Department for comment. I note from the transcript that representatives of the Irish Rural Dwellers Association attended the meeting to air their concerns relating to, inter alia, the composition of the board of An Bord Pleanála. I am also aware that similar concerns have been raised previously by IRDA with the Department through parliamentary questions and representations.
An Bord Pleanála was established in 1977, primarily to allow independent consideration of planning authorities' decisions on planning applications in the event that such decisions are appealed. I am satisfied that the board fulfils this primary function very well. The board must have regard to the principle of proper planning and sustainable development of all areas, as well as to ministerial policy and guidelines in making its independent decisions on planning applications.
In terms of planning applications to build houses in rural areas the Irish countryside is a rich resource in terms of visual amenity, habitats and biodiversity, tourism and recreation. Importantly, it is also home to many people who live and work on the land and contribute to the rural community. In more recent times living in the countryside has also become increasingly attractive as a lifestyle choice for people who work in urban centres. About one third of people live in the open countryside. It is vital therefore that the future viability and sustainability of such rural communities is balanced with appropriate environmental protection.
Achieving sustainable rural communities does not mean that we facilitate unrestricted building and development. Housing development in rural areas should complement rather than dominate its natural surroundings. It is for this reason that a balanced and sustainable approach must be adopted at both national and local level. Of particular relevance in this context are the Sustainable Rural Housing Guidelines for Planning Authorities. These guidelines were published in 2005 and are aimed at achieving a balanced, sustainable planning framework for rural housing. They are still relevant and practical in helping to secure this balance.
The guidelines consolidate the approach taken in relation to rural housing in the national spatial strategy, which aims to support rural communities and provide the framework within which rural communities can develop economically and socially, with inherent environmental consideration. The guidelines are quite clear that environmental, health and safety issues, such as site appropriateness, waste water disposal and road safety, are overriding concerns for all planning applications.
While respecting the need to consider each planning application individually and on its own merits, planning officials are also aware of the need to ensure that the provisions of the guidelines are applied consistently and uniformly across the country. The guidelines were published under section 28 of the Planning and Development Act, which requires planning authorities and An Bord Pleanála to have regard to them in the performance of their functions. Bearing in mind the considerable volume and individual nature of each appeal referred to the board for its consideration, I do not believe it has been over-strict in its interpretation or application of the guidelines.
On the specific points raised by the IRDA regarding the make up of An Bord Pleanála, I point out that the procedures for the appointment of ordinary members to An Bord Pleanála are set out in the Planning and Development Act 2000, as amended by sections 14 to 16 of the Planning and Development (Strategic Infrastructure) Act 2006. Under the Planning and Development Act 2000, the process for the appointment of members to An Bord Pleanála requires selections to be made from names put forward by organisations listed in six panels of nominating bodies prescribed for this purpose. Under the Planning and Development (Strategic Infrastructure) Act 2006 the number of prescribed nominating panels was reduced to four. As members are aware, Article 11 of the Planning and Development Regulations 2006 amended the list of prescribed bodies for the purposes of making nominations to the board and the Irish Rural Dwellers Association was included on the list. Overall I am satisfied that the current nomination and appointment processes are fair and transparent.
On the points made at the aforementioned meeting regarding the appointment of two nominees made by ICTU in 2001, I can clarify the position as follows. At the time in question a board member had resigned and it had been decided to increase the overall number of board members in response to the increasing level of planning appeals being made to the board. The Department wrote to four of the six panels of nominating organisations to seek nominations to fill three vacancies arising. The remaining two panels would have already had two representatives each on the board. One of the incoming appointees had to come from the trade unions, farmers and rural and local community development panel to ensure a valid board with members from all of the panels. The other two appointments could be made from the nominations received from any of the four panels, once there were not more than two representatives from any one panel on the board.
In total, 27 nominations were received, details of which were submitted to the incumbent Minister at the time, Deputy Noel Dempsey, from which he made his three appointments. These appointments included two of the nominations received from the Irish Congress of Trade Unions. This decision was undertaken in keeping with the procedures set out under section 106 of the Planning and Development Act 2000.
I stress that appointees to An Bord Pleanála do not represent their nominating body, but are appointed on individual merit to make independent assessments of planning authorities' decisions submitted to the board on appeal. In dealing with an appeal, the board members must consider all submissions on the file, together with the inspector's report and recommendation. The board reaches its own conclusion in each case, in accordance with the proper planning and sustainable development of the area. It is the board members and not the inspectors who have statutory authority and responsibility to decide an appeal.
As these procedures have only recently been endorsed by the Oireachtas I have no proposals to make any further amendments at this time.
I thank the Minister for his response to the concerns raised by the Irish Rural Dwellers Association.
The point being made by the Irish Rural Dwellers Association was that there is no rural representation on the board. The Minister has now clarified the position. There is not much more to be said about it. We all accept there is no rural representation on An Bord Pleanála.
There are a few other points I wish to make. The Minister mentioned that dwellings or any development in the country should complement the countryside. I live in the countryside and have been involved with farmers and other people with a connection to it seeking planning permission to build in the area where they were brought up and went to school. It is nice to see people returning to their own area which they left to get employment and so on. Now they want to come back to where they were born and reared but, unfortunately, owing to the regulations in place, they find it virtually impossible to do so. With regard to development, if a house is designed and built properly it can complement the countryside. There is nothing more pleasant than driving along the road and seeing a nice house designed on a nice site. We all look at it in a different light, but that is my point of view.
The sooner we get back to reality the better. People will have to live in the countryside. A third of our people live in the countryside while two thirds live in cities and towns. I take it the figures are correct. The countryside is a very large place and it could hold a little more than one third of the population. Perhaps the Minister might consider this some time and change some of the rules to make it easier for the people who have connections and want to live in the countryside, whether for retirement or for any other reason.
I have a certain amount of sympathy for the Irish Rural Dwellers Association which, after all, is a voluntary association whose members have a deep connection with the rural environment in which they live. They are not coming to Dublin to speak to joint Oireachtas committees for the fun of it. They have real concerns because they have real-life experiences of difficulties in acquiring planning permission for their own families, locals or others in various local authority areas. They have organised themselves in this fashion in order to make a good point on behalf of rural dwellers. They have a fair and significant membership and it is important their views are heard. I am glad that we as a committee were able to hear that and we have passed on their views to the Minister, to which he has responded today.
As a representative from a rural area, we must not close the book on development in rural areas. As Deputy O'Sullivan said, many families were reared in rural areas, and many people who moved away want to come back to live in these areas. We need some joined-up thinking and a common approach between local authorities, An Bord Pleanála and whatever representative associations are out there, whether it is the Irish Rural Dwellers Association, An Taisce or another body. There must be flexibility. Development plans must be flexible and contain an acknowledgement of the need for people to live in rural Ireland.
As the Minister said in his statement earlier, more than one third of the Irish population live in rural areas. That is a considerable proportion. Perhaps what the members of the Irish Rural Dwellers Association were trying to get at was that An Bord Pleanála may be oriented towards urban planning, and they are looking for balance with regard to rural dwellers. This needs to be considered in any future guidelines we might adopt.
I am supportive of people who want to live and work in rural Ireland. The Minister mentioned people who live and work on the land. However, there are many people in rural Ireland who have lived there all their lives but do not work on the land. I am thinking in particular of professional people who have done tremendous work over the years — schoolteachers, gardaí and so on — and have made enormous contributions to their communities. It is sad to see a family applying for planning permission for a son or daughter on the land holding next to them and being turned down because they cannot prove they have a functional need to live there. They have lived there all their lives and if they want to continue to live in the townland in which they live we should facilitate them.
I support the Irish Rural Dwellers Association. Speaking to the representatives after the recent meeting, I realised that many of them had bad experiences with regard to planning in rural Ireland. Many of them are driven by these experiences. I ask the Minister or his officials to meet these people — they may have done so already — and discuss these bad experiences. There is nothing as bad as an individual who is driven by a chip on his or her shoulder about one particular issue. It would be better if they had a clear vision of how we can develop rural Ireland and maintain it as best we can for the future.
All the questions I wanted to ask have been answered.
As an urban dweller, I add my support to the other members so that our views are unanimous on this matter.
In case people get the wrong idea, I wish to clarify one point. Someone used the phrase "close the book on development". There is no book being closed. The 2005 guidelines still apply.
They are not being implemented. That is the problem we have found.
They are being implemented.
No, they are not. We can give lots of instances.
They are being implemented, but that is——
No, they are not.
I can honestly tell the committee that the sustainable rural housing guidelines for planning authorities which date back to 2005 are being implemented. Members may not like they way they are being implemented, but——
Let me give one example. Sustainable rural development involves keeping up the numbers living in particular rural areas. In Leenane, County Galway, the number of pupils in the national school has fallen to 12. Somebody came back from England with two small children but was refused planning permission to build a house in the area, of which they are a native. Their children are enrolled in the school. I can tell the Minister that the 2005 guidelines are not being implemented and can give the reference numbers of the cases to which I refer.
We must look at the number of houses built in rural areas in the last few years. There has been a major increase. The statistics bear this out. It has been said by Deputy Fitzpatrick that there are people who live in the countryside but work in urban areas. I did recognise this in my opening remarks. It is a fact. It is also a fact that this is becoming an increasingly urbanised society, but people still like to live in the countryside. All of these factors are recognised in the sustainable rural housing guidelines. Obviously, people who cannot get planning permission experience a great deal of frustration. This applies even in urban areas. People do get frustrated and have, to use Deputy Fitzpatrick's phrase, a chip on their shoulder. That is regrettable.
My perception is that rather than facilitate people to live in rural areas — people who do comply with the guidelines — planners seem to be preoccupied with finding reasons to oppose development in rural areas. They should be more proactive in facilitating people who do comply with the guidelines. There should be some fast-track system in place in local authorities. The Vice Chairman has mentioned that where pre-planning approved has been obtained for a rural development, people from the local area should be facilitated rather than being rejected or made to jump through hoops. That is a real concern. We are only reflecting the views of the people we represent. We are not just saying it for the fun of it.
I fully understand that.
Deputy O'Sullivan may make a final point. We have exhausted the discussion.
We have a long way to go to make up the shortfall caused by people leaving the country in the 1920s, 1930s and 1940s. The doors were closed and their houses went to ruin. We are only replacing those houses now and have a long way to go before we get back to where we were in those days. The school in my own parish used to have 200 pupils; now there are 22. If the Minister can tell me that there will be 200 children in that school and houses in the area, I will be happy. In the townland where I was born there are only two houses left, although there were at least 15 when I was going to school. That is where we are.
I thank the Minister for his response to the Irish Rural Dwellers Association. I also thank members for their comments. Is there any other business?
I have a query. Some time ago at a meeting I mentioned newspaper reports that waste from the Twenty-six Counties was being illegally placed in landfills in Northern Ireland. The reports stated enormous sums of money would be required to reclaim this waste and deal with it in the State. Has any assessment of the problem been made?
The clerk tells me that the Chairman will investigate the matter.
The joint committee adjourned at 4.50 p.m. until 3.30 p.m. on Tuesday, 1 July 2008.