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JOINT COMMITTEE ON THE ENVIRONMENT, HERITAGE AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT debate -
Tuesday, 24 Feb 2009

Waste Management: Discussion with EPA.

Members will recall that at our meeting on 16 December 2008 we heard a presentation by the Irish Waste Management Association on the collection of waste and its concerns about this issue, and by Repak on its concerns about the waste markets. Officials from the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government discussed this matter further at a meeting of this committee on 27 January. A delegation from the Environmental Protection Agency is now before the committee. I welcome Dr. Mary Kelly, director general, Ms Laura Burke, director, Office of Climate Licensing and Resource, OCLR, and Mr. Brian Meaney, senior scientific officer, OCLR, and thank them for their attendance.

The format of the meeting involves a presentation from the EPA followed by a question and answer session. I draw attention to the fact that while members of the committee have absolute privilege, this same privilege does not apply to witnesses appearing before the committee. Members are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the Houses or an official by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable. I understand a new report has issued. I invite Dr. Kelly to make her presentation to the committee on that report.

Dr. Mary Kelly

Thank you, Chairman, for inviting the Environmental Protection Agency to meet this committee. We have previously made presentations to this committee on the EPA's wider role regarding environmental protection issues. We are, as ever, happy to assist the committee in its work.

We are aware that the committee has had a number of presentations about the collection of waste and waste markets in general from Repak, which had commissioned a report from Peter Bacon and Associates, and from the Irish Waste Management Association, and that officials from the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government have also appeared before this committee in recent weeks. The EPA has recently published its annual National Waste Report for the year 2007. In discussion with the clerk to the committee in advance of today's meeting we suggested that the EPA would briefly present the main findings of that report and discuss the issue of packaging waste in that context. With your permission, Chairman, that is what I propose to do. We will be more than happy to answer any questions the committee might have and, if either I or my colleagues are unable to provide specific answers today, I will arrange for the relevant information to be forwarded to the committee.

The Environmental Protection Agency is an independent statutory body, established in 1993 under the Environmental Protection Agency Act 1992, with a wide range of responsibilities including regulation of large-scale industrial and waste facilities, monitoring and reporting on the state of the environment, overseeing local authorities' environmental responsibilities, co-ordinating environmental research in Ireland, promoting resource efficiency and regulating Ireland's greenhouse gas emissions. The work of the EPA is carried out by its four offices, the Office of Environmental Enforcement, the Office of Climate, Licensing and Resource Use which is represented today by my two colleagues, the Office of Environmental Assessment and an Office of Communications and Corporate Services.

The EPA has specific roles with regard to municipal waste which are set out in an appendix to this document. I did not want to make the presentation too long so that is set out in the appendix. These roles include: waste licensing and permitting; co-ordination of the national waste prevention programme; preparation of a national hazardous waste management plan; and enforcement roles under a number of regulations concerning, for example, waste from electrical and electronic equipment known as the WEEE regulations, and restriction on use of hazardous substances under the RoHS regulations, waste batteries and accumulators, and other hazardous substances product restrictions. In general, local authorities may also have specific enforcement roles under these and other waste management regulations. In addition, the EPA's Office of Environmental Enforcement, OEE, has a supervisory role in terms of the environmental protection activities of local authorities.

I will now speak about the national waste report recently published and which members have a copy of. The EPA is responsible for producing national statistics on waste in the Republic of Ireland. The objective of producing an annual national waste report is to present the most up-to-date available information on waste generation and management, as reported to the EPA. The national waste report enables all stakeholders in waste management to make informed decisions and to fulfil national and EU reporting in relation to binding obligations.

Waste data for the report is collected from waste operators, local authorities, industry and other bodies as necessary, reporting waste information for 2007, and primarily deals with municipal waste, which is broadly defined as all household, commercial and non-process industrial waste. The report shows that in 2007 the generation of municipal waste increased by only 0.4% on 2006 to approximately 3,397,683 tonnes following an 11% increase in the previous year, that recycling of municipal waste increased by 3.6% to an overall rate of 36.5% and that disposal of municipal waste to landfill increased by 1.7%. I apologise for the number of statistics and percentages in the report but unfortunately that is the nature of a report such as this. The report also highlights that the quantity of biodegradable waste to landfill increased by 5% to roughly 1,485,968 tonnes and that less than 9% of organic wastes were recovered. Recycling of household waste increased by 8% to 26% and recycling of packaging waste increased by 14% to 63.5%. A total of approximately 50,626 tonnes of waste from electrical and electronic equipment was reported to have been collected for recycling including 8.7 kg per capita of household waste from electrical and electronic equipment. That excludes business waste from electrical and electronic equipment.

With regard to waste collection, 17 local authorities provided a kerbside waste collection service for householders, collecting 48% of household waste. Private sector operators collected the remaining 52%. In 2007, the number of civic amenity sites increased to 90 and the number of bring banks increased to 1,960. Finally, a total of 29 active landfills accepted municipal waste.

The conclusions of the national waste report were as follows: the overall generation of municipal waste did not increase appreciably in 2007, in contrast to 2006; recycling rates generally remained steady with good progress reported in regard to packaging; the diversion of very large quantities of food waste from landfill is a priority that must be addressed as a matter of urgency if Ireland is to meet binding targets under the landfill directive, and failure to meet these targets could result in daily fines; and the level of waste reported in 2007, allied with the need for businesses to reduce costs in 2009, reflects the need for continued support for resource conservation initiatives in regard to waste, water and energy, such as the national waste prevention programme administered by the EPA.

The report also identified the following priority actions which it will be noted are largely in the area of biodegradable waste management: putting in place the services required for the separate collection of organic, particularly food, waste at households and commercial premises; ensuring there is adequate infrastructure to treat the very large amounts of organic, particularly food, waste that must be collected separately and diverted from landfill; developing outlets for the products of such treatment; making regulations and by-laws that can be used to enforce the segregation and separate collection of food waste at household and commercial premises; and delivering the new waste policy on foot of the international review of waste management as quickly as possible to provide certainty and to allow for accelerated investment programmes that are necessary if organic waste is to be treated and landfill avoided.

It will be seen that the priority has been on diverting organic waste from landfill and trying to achieve our targets under the landfill directive. Therefore, although significant progress has been made in managing waste in Ireland, there are still some major challenges to be addressed in managing our waste and meeting Ireland's commitments regarding biodegradable waste in particular. In addition, in a time of increasingly constrained resources, fundamental issues need to be addressed in terms of establishing sustainable resource use in all sectors of the world market economy.

I now turn to the specific issue of packaging waste, which the committee had asked us to address. The packaging directive, Directive 94/62/EC, sets recovery and recycling targets for packaging waste to be achieved by Ireland. The targets have been transposed in the Waste Management (Packaging) Regulations 2007. To date, all targets have been achieved. In 2001, 25.3% of packaging waste was recycled, exceeding the 25% target for that year, and in 2005, 59% of packaging waste was recycled, exceeding the 50% target set for that year. The next applicable national target is for 2008 and at least 60% of packaging waste must be recovered, with at least 55% recovered by recycling. While this target was originally set for 2011 in the packaging directive, the 2007 national regulations brought this target forward to 2008 as a result of targets being exceeded in earlier years.

With regard to packaging waste, the national waste report for 2007 shows that recycling of packaging waste increased by almost 14% from 589,519 tonnes in 2006 to 671,630 tonnes in 2007, representing a recovery rate of 63.6% and exceeding the national target. This was the largest annual increase in packaging waste recycling since 2003.

Municipal waste composition surveys conducted by the EPA in 2008 found that the percentage of packaging in black bin waste had decreased. This resulted in a reduction of over 50,000 tonnes in the calculated quantity of packaging going to landfill. Recovery of packaging wood waste in Ireland was at 98.8%, which is extremely high, and paper and cardboard packaging was at 77%, which is also high. Recovery of aluminium and plastic packaging were at the lowest rates at 26% and 22%, respectively. The large increase in recycling in 2007 and the reduced landfill resulted in packaging recovery growing from 57.3% in 2006 to 63.6% in 2007.

There are two graphs. Figure 1 shows the growth in packaging waste recycling from 2001 to 2007 from a base of just over 200,000 tonnes to the almost 700,000 tonnes achieved in 2007, with steady year-on-year growth. Figure 2 shows how this growth in recycling of packaging waste has resulted in an increase in the recovery rate of packaging waste from 25% in 2001 to 63.6% in 2007, exceeding Ireland's 2008 target of 60%.

With regard to obligations under the Waste Management (Packaging) Regulations, the national waste report includes the results of the first survey of packaging self-compliers reported in local authority areas. The Chairman may remember that when we appeared before this committee last year, he asked me a question on this issue and I undertook to include such detail in our survey this year for the local authorities. This is the first time we have done this so we have just preliminary results.

In 2007, as will be seen in the report, the results indicated a reported 56,000 tonnes of packaging placed on the market by self-compliers. This survey will be repeated annually and will be developed and refined to ensure that the information received is as comprehensive as possible. We will also be passing on the information we receive in that survey to our colleagues in the Office of Environmental Enforcement to ensure we get action on that score. It should be noted that the local authorities are the competent authorities for the enforcement of these regulations in their functional areas.

I will move to recycling markets and, while the EPA does not have a huge role in the economics of this issue, we have included a section on it. A significant collapse of prices in the recyclate market occurred during 2008. The Bacon report commissioned by Repak in November 2008 examines the impact of this recent price collapse in markets for recyclate materials and proposes some interventions. In general, the recommendations are directed at the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, its Minister and the Government in general. In response to the collapse in prices, the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government established an action group on recyclates in November 2008. The EPA participated in this group at the request of the Department.

In particular, the EPA was asked to consider how best to provide for interim storage of collected materials in the short term. The agency recognised the difficulties facing EPA licensees and committed to work with them on this issue. It was agreed that waste licensees would apply for technical amendments of EPA licences as necessary to permit storage of processed non-leachate non-nuisance forming dry recyclables, for example, plastics and metal cans, on their licensed site for extended periods. The external storage would be permitted on condition that it did not result in a deterioration of the recycling potential of processed material. No applications have been received by us to date.

The EPA also committed to consider accommodating, by technical amendment or review of licences, the use of consented landfill void for medium to long-term storage of pre-processed non-leachate non-nuisance forming dry recyclables, such as plastics and metal cans. The recyclables would be isolated from other wastes to ensure contaminant-free status and thereby re-exportability if markets improved. The EPA committed to prioritise any application for any licence in respect of a storage depot for dry recyclables. No applications have been received to date.

Mindful of the difficult market conditions and the environmental risk profile for dry recyclable storage facilities, the EPA committed to actively consider any application for a waiver or refund in respect of licence application fees, although as we did not receive any applications, that did not arise. In addition, the EPA communicated with local authority enforcement personnel, via the EPA environmental enforcement network, to apprise them of the emerging storage crisis. This apprisal also encouraged the local authorities to be flexible and pragmatic in regard to enforcement issues for non-polluting dry recyclables storage, post processing. Since then, as has been outlined in the submission from the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, there has been some easing of the situation, with evidence from the waste management industry and from Repak that markets have recovered somewhat and that material is beginning to move again. From an EPA perspective, the fact that no applications for temporary or emergency storage have been received would support this evidence. However, the crisis is not resolved and has shown up some of the underlying difficulties associated with the long-term commitment to achieving recycling targets, and doing this at reasonable cost. The EPA will continue to participate with all the relevant players in the action group on recyclates and any other such groups and will make its expertise available where appropriate.

I am happy to try to answer any questions the Chairman or members may have.

Perhaps Dr. Kelly might explain appendix B in the EPA's annual report, which concerns household waste as reported by local authorities. Dr. Kelly made it clear that the role of the EPA is to assemble statistics for that appendix. Whose job is it to take it further? Who might the committee have before it at a future date who might ask me what I am doing about such matters? Appendix B of the report intrigues me. In the right-hand column it is stated that last year, of 1.6 million tonnes of total household waste approximately 133,000 tonnes, or just under 10%, was uncollected household waste. I presume that was material in back gardens and dumped in ditches. Was something of that kind meant?

Dr. Mary Kelly

I hope it does not mean dumped in ditches.

What does it mean?

Dr. Mary Kelly

Not all local authorities service every household in their area. Those households might take their waste to a civic amenity site, for example, or directly to the landfill and might not avail of a local service. I am sure some of the waste goes astray but that is my understanding of the situation. Recently we noticed that some households in estates engage in bin sharing. Every household does not necessarily have a collection from a local authority or from a private individual.

I will pursue this topic briefly and then open the matter for discussion. In its report the EPA states that private sector operators collected approximately 52% of household waste and local authorities collected 48%. How can we know how many households are serviced by private operators? I have never seen feedback concerning counties I am aware of that would show that private waste collectors inform local authorities about the numbers of houses with which they deal.

I am intrigued by that chart. I cannot understand how some six local authorities, namely, the Dublin local authority areas and Carlow County Council, can give the impression there is no uncollected waste. The same chart shows that Cavan County Council had 13,000 tonnes of uncollected waste, or 35% of its total waste. Longford County Council had 7,000 tonnes, also 35%. I cannot understand how two counties can show statistics of 35% of waste being uncollected or not attributed to a bin collection of any type while five other county areas claim no uncollected waste. I have a problem with the credibility of both figures. I do not believe the Dublin local areas have no uncollected waste and it is hard to believe that counties Cavan and Longford are so out of synch with every other county. Perhaps there is something of which I am unaware.

Dr. Mary Kelly

I understand. The report is the end product of a very long process of collecting statistics and obviously there is a great deal underpinning it. Our staff and Mr. Meaney, in particular, worked on it. The Chairman will note that in the city areas very little uncollected waste is reported. Rural areas report more because such areas can be very isolated. County Cavan, for example, an area that the Chairman remarked upon, has a large number of rural customers and households whereas Dublin city generally offers a bin service to every household.

That is about service offered but a very large proportion of houses in many counties do not take the service up because of the cost. In my county the price for the average wheelie bin is €394 per annum. This includes collection of one ordinary and one recycling bin every second week. A very high proportion of people cannot afford that. That is not the EPA's problem but there must be much more uncollected waste than has been accounted for in this report.

Dr. Mary Kelly

Over several years we have refined and examined these statistics and they are as accurate as they can be. I do not believe statistics on waste will ever be exact to the tonne but those we have are very reliable. We are in touch with each local authority to go behind the statistics. For commercial reasons the private operators know exactly who their customers are and they make that information available to us, and, from time to time, to local authorities, depending on the relationship they have. I am confident the statistics we have are as reliable as they can be.

I am happy with that. If the EPA's job is to assemble the statistics, whose job is it to call in the Cavan county manager and the Longford county manager and ask them why some 35% of waste in their counties is not being collected? Does that responsibility lie with the Department? It is fine to produce statistics, if Dr. Kelly does not mind my saying this. That is what happened with the Financial Regulator. Reports were supplied but nobody read or studied them or followed them up. This is no criticism of the witnesses. The EPA assembles the information but the statistics serve no purpose unless somebody studies them and takes action to seek improvement.

Dr. Mary Kelly

I assure the Chairman we do not assemble these statistics merely to have them. The EPA is engaged with each county council, local authority and recycling body to produce correct statistics and examine what should be done about them. This is an interim report. Under the Waste Management Act we are obliged to produce a report every two years. To have more up to date information we decided to produce one every year. This one, therefore, is slightly shorter than our usual report. The recommendations we made can be noted. We have gone through the statistics and have picked out what we see as the main priority issues for action. Sometimes we bring statistics to the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government and point out various issues. We might suggest changes in legislation. Sometimes we make a point to local authorities. As I said to the Chairman about self-compliers, sometimes we take action on foot of information and get our office of environmental enforcement to chase up people. The fact that the report is published in this fashion, where statistics can look pretty flat, does not mean that a great deal of work is not going on behind the scenes.

Who might be able to make contact, on behalf of the committee, with, for example, counties Cavan and Longford? Their figures appear to be extreme compared to others. I have nothing against County Cavan; it might have been County Laois but these figures look strange. Might the EPA, or perhaps the Department, give us more background on those two counties?

Dr. Mary Kelly

We can give more background if the Chairman wishes.

It could be sent on to the committee.

Dr. Mary Kelly

Local authorities are not obliged, under legislation, to collect waste from every household. They have a derogation if it is not economically viable to do so and are under no obligation to do so in the first place. In rural areas where one house may be miles from anywhere else authorities are not obliged to provide a service. The fact that zero appears in the column does not mean that waste is being illegally disposed of and I wish to make sure that members understand that. It may be that those isolated householders, particularly rural ones, might be doing a great deal of composting or reusing or they may take their waste to the dump. Very often people do this in the country, as I am sure the Chairman is aware. When zero appears the figure means only that the local authority or private collector is not providing a service. It does not mean that waste is illegally dumped.

I merely wanted to tease out that subject.

I welcome Dr. Kelly and her colleagues. They spoke to the Joint Committee on Agriculture, Fisheries and Food recently, in respect of the dioxin scare. It is a pity we did not invite Carlow County Council to speak before we heard the EPA delegates today.

I refer to the delegation's submission which states, "It should be noted that the local authorities are the competent authorities for the enforcement of these regulations in their functional areas." Carlow County Council appeared before this committee on the subject of the Carlow plant. We were told there used to be yearly inspections but the officials from Carlow County Council told this committee there had been an inspection in 2005 and the licence was granted in February 2006 and there had been no inspection since then by the local authority. The plant operators were allowed to submit their own report in 2007 and that was accepted by the local authority. It turns out that food for human consumption was either badly packaged or out of date. A drying plant was in operation which was not covered by the licence.

My question is whether the local authority is capable of carrying out these inspections or whether this type of business should be the remit of the EPA rather than the local authority. It has cost this country significant amounts of money at a time when money is so valuable. It is costing taxpayers millions of euro and it has done damage to our pork and beef trade, particularly pork, and it will have a severe effect on business for years to come.

Is it fair that the local authority should be allowed to give a licence to inspect, although in this situation the authority was not carrying out an inspection? As public representatives we all know that if some farmer gets 20 or 30 loads of clay to build up a hole and sees a bit of polythene or plastic piping sticking out, it creates a lot of hassle. In some cases they may make the person take out all the clay and do a fingertip search to remove the offending bits. I compare the hassle caused to individuals and it is outrageous that this should be allowed happen with such an important business, along with the damage done to the reputation of our pork. Would the EPA not be the more appropriate agency to deal with this rather than local authorities?

Dr. Mary Kelly

I am not really competent to say——

I know it is difficult for the agency and I understand that.

Dr. Mary Kelly

——whether the local authority is capable of doing this. The legislation assigns that responsibility to local authorities. The EPA is a relatively small organisation with a very wide range of responsibilities and very technically qualified, committed and competent staff. When we are assigned pieces of work, we take it extremely seriously. We assign resources to the work and we do it. I think we have carried out the jobs we have been given well.

However, some jobs are probably more appropriately done at local level, in particular those that have less environmental risk than the big companies which the agency generally regulates. For example, on the packaging side of things, the risk to the environment is relatively small, even though we have targets to achieve at European directive level. In addition, the packaging arises at local level and local authorities therefore are the appropriate bodies to enforce those regulations. If the legislation assigns the work to the EPA and most important, if we have the resources, we will certainly do the work and carry it out well but it is not for me to say which pieces of work are for us to carry out.

I welcome Dr. Kelly back to the committee. This is a very interesting debate and this is an issue of interest to every citizen and every local authority. I will start on a positive note. We must acknowledge that the recycling rates are much higher from 2000 onwards. The people have to be complimented on the way they have engaged with the various waste initiatives implemented by local authorities, such as the three bin collections and the recycling routes. The people have responded when they were asked and when the proper infrastructure was put in place. This is evident in the various bring banks and the civic amenity sites where there is high usage. Any criticism would be that we may not have enough accessible civic amenity sites. Ireland is predominantly a rural society and there are large swathes of rural Ireland where people must have access to civic amenity sites.

With regard to the national waste report, while the report is fine in itself and it contains a lot of statistics, I have an issue about the whole co-ordination of the national waste problem. What role could the EPA play in co-ordination? For example, many regional waste management plans are currently under way and the various county and city managers are driving ahead and putting plans in place to address waste management on a regional basis. The EPA report referred to thermal treatment. A couple of incinerators or thermal treatment plants — call them what one likes — are already licensed. However, thermal treatment plants are listed in all the current regional waste management plans. This would seem to be unsustainable. National and local authority resources are being used in the preparation and progression of these plans but if they are all to go ahead, we will have a number of incinerators right around the country. This would suggest there is no co-ordination or oversight at a higher level. What would be the role of the EPA and how relevant are the regional waste management plans, now that some incinerators have already been licensed?

The Chairman will recall that Repak attended the committee. As we have such huge amounts of packaging being produced in this country I wonder why the problem is not tackled at source. Why is there no strategy to reduce waste? I am aware of the Courtauld commitment in the UK where large retailers and producers commit to cutting their packaging and so reduce waste by 10% by 2010. I may be corrected on that date.

I asked Repak why we do not have similar strategies and targets in this country and the answer was quite disappointing. Repak outlined that it is very difficult to engage the large retailers, even though many of them are the same retailers who are operating in the UK and have already given a commitment there. As a public representative I asked what we needed to do to ensure these retailers engage with the likes of Repak, the local authorities, the EPA, or whoever, to ensure that packaging is reduced because this is not happening in this country and it needs to happen.

The delegation referred to the Bacon report. Recyclables are a commodity on the international markets and when the demand dropped, many of our operators, including local authorities, struggled to find destinations for our recycled waste. This was a crisis situation but yet no applications have been made to the EPA for storage facilities. I thought there was an agreement in place for short to medium-term storage facilities but obviously things have started to move again or operators have found destination markets. I ask the delegation to throw some light on the situation as to where those destination markets are for the recycled product. I remember only a short couple of months ago hearing that there was no demand.

I raised the issue of the illegal export of waste from this country into Northern Ireland and the depositing of waste into illegal landfills in Northern Ireland. Has this amount of waste ever been quantified and has the EPA any involvement in assessing it? This was widely reported. A report in the Irish Examiner stated it would cost a great deal to return Irish waste dumped illegally in Northern Ireland. Does the EPA know about this activity and does it have a role in dealing with it? If so, what sanctions or penalties can it bring to bear on those operating illegally?

Old landfill sites have been identified and some are being remediated at a significant cost. This is a legacy from local authorities and Departments dumping waste without treating it. Is there a requirement on local authorities to list all landfill sites and supply the information on a database to the EPA? Are the local authorities obliged to deal with all landfill dumps? Does the EPA have a database of landfill sites?

I agree with many of Deputy Brady's comments on this issue. Is it practical that local authorities comply with all the waste management regulations? Do local authorities have the technical knowledge and appropriate financial resources to comply with all the waste regulations? Local authorities seem to be under pressure to deal with legacy landfill sites, waste collection, licensing of private operators and private facilities. Dr. Kelly states that the EPA is a small organisation with a wide remit, but I would argue that local authorities are small organisations with a remit spreading across many areas, one of which is waste management. Local authorities are under serious pressure to comply with the regulations arising from European and national legislation. I wonder if local authorities have the capacity to continue to implement the regulations. I wonder if we should consider the need for a shared service — not the EPA — that would advise and assist all local authorities with the technical expertise to deal with what is imposed by legislation. I see on a weekly basis the struggle of local authority employees to try to keep up with the demands of the regulations. I am aware the EPA has the task of ensuring that the local authorities are complying with the regulations. However, the local authorities are struggling and I wonder if it possible that some type of shared service organisation would assist them.

Dr. Mary Kelly

Waste management has been transformed in recent years. We have come a long way from the days when rubbish was left out in black bags on the roadside, to be eaten by dogs or crows to the neat lines of bins for collection. That is a visual symbol of the way waste management has been transformed. Our statistics on recycling are good and our statistics for recycling packaging is particularly good. This is down to the Repak initiative. I agree that in rural areas, there is a need for more civic amenity sites. However, not everybody is able to avail or should have to avail of an actual collection site because many people want to take their waste to a civic amenity site or a landfill. The co-ordination of the national waste problem has been a thorny issue for quite a number of years. The way we have set about producing a national waste plan is to require local authorities to band together in regional groups and produce regional waste management plans. These are supposed to fit together into a national waste management plan. From the historic perspective, it was difficult to get agreement as the system was dysfunctional, but now there are regional waste management plans. However, there is neither a national waste management agency or authority, nor has agency been designated as such. I suppose it is up to the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government to be the overall supervisor of the regional waste plans and to ensure they are coherent. The EPA does not have that mandate and it can only do what the Oireachtas specifies or what is specified in ministerial regulation and has no role in co-ordinating local authorities. Having said that, the EPA has many different roles in terms of waste and tries to influence what is happening at regional and local level. The EPA has licensed several waste-to-energy incinerators. Again, incineration is part of the regional plans but I do not know from memory if an incinerator is planned for every regional waste management plan area. There could be some rationalisation of that, however the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government currently has an international waste review group looking at waste management in Ireland and I would expect that when we receive the report of that review, there will be references to rationalising the situation. My colleague, Mr. Brian Meaney represents the EPA on that international waste review group which is discussing all these type of issues.

The EPA has no role in determining the number of incinerators and has not been assigned responsibility for doing that. The EPA will license them if that is a requirement and similarly with landfill and recycling and all that, but it is not responsible for the co-ordination of it. I hope the international waste review will bring us a step further in the development of waste management in Ireland. In fairness to the Department of Environment, Heritage and Local Government, several waste management policies initiated in the past six to seven years have step by step improved waste management in Ireland and the review will take that a step further and waste management will be co-ordinated in a more coherent way. The EPA has recommended in several reports that consideration be given to making somebody responsible in the overall context for rationalising the number of facilities.

On the question of waste reduction and the Courtauld commitment, one of the things for which the EPA has responsibility is the national waste prevention programme. That is run by a small unit within the EPA which concentrates precisely on the reduction of waste at source. We see disposal as the worst option and reduction as the best option. From a very small start — the EPA is not very well resourced in this area, but has received funds from the environment fund in recent years — this waste prevention programme has been extremely successful in a number of areas. The greenbusiness.ie initiative started from a research project that the EPA did with several hotels and while it is not exactly the Courtauld commitment, we got a group together and looked at what savings they could make in terms of energy, water, packaging, food waste and we have had a significant success. Not alone do they reduce the amount of waste that is produced but save themselves a good deal of money in the process. That initiative has been so successful that the EPA is trying to expand it to other sectors. We are looking at what other sectors could be involved. For example retailers may be a possible group, but I am not exactly sure which sector the EPA has chosen. This initiative is being expanded and the website is www.greenbusiness.ie. The EPA works in collaboration with Sustainable Energy Ireland on the energy side. We are trying to help people to reduce waste in all areas, wastewater, packing and so on. It has been very successful and we will proceed to roll it out.

That seems to be targeting the consumer to reduce packaging.

Dr. Mary Kelly

No.

Hotels, and by extension the users of hotels, are consumers. I am concerned about large retailers who are bringing the majority of packaging into the country. It seems logical to begin with the large and proceed to the small.

Dr. Mary Kelly

We have also funded Repak to investigate a packaging reduction initiative with its members who include big retailers and big producers of packaging. That project has not come to fruition yet but it is in operation.

We are not targeting consumers. Our service is called greenbusiness.ie. It targets the business sector and is making savings at that level. We have other initiatives which target consumers and involve communities, green schools, green homes and so on. They are information and awareness initiatives and people are very willing to take part in them. We have funded Repak to carry out that project.

Senator Coffey asked about markets for recylcate material. I do not have access to information on the precise destination markets which have come on stream recently. From the information available from the Department and from Repak as well as our own experience in not getting any applications for storage, which we are perfectly willing to allow if it does not cause pollution, we think the problem has gone away to some extent. The fundamental problem of the cost of recycling and who should meet it, which Mr. Peter Bacon points to in his report, is still there. That may be something which is being discussed at the international review of waste management. If it is not, it probably should be. It is sometimes thought that recycling will pay for itself but, in general, it costs money. The cost must be distributed, probably between the producer and the consumer.

We were involved in the investigation of illegal waste being sent to Northern Ireland. The amount has been quantified but I do not have the figures today. Large volumes were mentioned at one stage but they have decreased considerably. This is largely because the figures first mentioned included all the waste in illegal landfills while only a portion of it came from the Republic of Ireland. To my knowledge, a number of legal routes are being explored to prosecute these cases. There was talk of some of the waste being repatriated to the Republic. We co-operated quite strongly with our counterparts on the Northern side of the Border in sorting the problem out and I think we have come to an agreement as to what will happen. I cannot give the details off the top of my head

Were there large costs to the EPA or the State?

Dr. Mary Kelly

There were no costs to the EPA, apart from the time spent in sorting the problem out. The costs to the State were not great. Two local authorities were involved and I am not aware of their costs. I can find that out if the Senator wishes.

I welcome the report, although I have not had time to read it in detail. This issue has taken up a great deal of the committee's time. It is an important one for all of us. We are led to believe the polluter pays but increasingly, the consumer pays. We must target the people who create the waste material which is causing such problems. They do not seem to realise the scale of the problem they are creating. I would like to see more action taken against people who create the problem rather than those who are left to deal with it.

Dr. Kelly referred to the problem of remote one-off houses. They may be a problem in that they are isolated and far away, but it is people from built-up areas who create the problem of waste in the countryside. It is they who draw waste material into the countryside and get rid of it in a manner which cannot be tolerated. Herein lies the problem with local authorities. This practice is more common now than ever in my part of the country. I have no hesitation in saying this because I drive on country roads regularly. We are making no inroads into addressing this problem. I look to the EPA to give some indication as to how it can be addressed. Local authorities appear to have no power to deal with it.

The situation has been made worse in the last three or four months since the charge for visits to local bring centres was introduced. There is now a charge for calling to a centre as well as for every item or bag of waste left there. This has increased the problem.

I acknowledge the progress we have made in some aspects of recycling and packaging. I am delighted to hear that the market is once again going in the right direction. However, fluctuations in the recycling market will be an ongoing problem. I am disappointed to hear that we have no increased facilities for holding recycled material and that no one appears to be interested in this activity. I suppose it is not a very profitable business. This issue must be addressed. I look to the EPA, as the body with overall responsibility for waste, to address it.

Dr. Kelly referred to the collapse of the market for dry recyclable material, particularly cardboard and paper packaging. In his report late last year, Dr. Peter Bacon said this market had collapsed and it would be necessary to subsidise the sending of this material to what he called waste-to-energy markets. I am amazed that the EPA has received no applications for waste storage permits. Is there a public relations difficulty? When every area of the economy is collapsing how can the market for this waste material be thriving? The EPA believes the fact that no applications for temporary storage have been received supports this evidence. I am not sure about that and feel it could be a very naive assumption. I would like the EPA to investigate and find the waste in question. How can that market be so healthy and remain at 2006 or 2007 levels while everything else is going down? It does not make sense.

It is important to deal with any problem we may have and not to close our eyes to it. I am not sure if the EPA has the powers to do what I suggest but it would be naive to assume everything has suddenly turned around in this market. I will not make allegations but who knows what has happened to the waste? There needs to be accountability and we must know what action needs to be taken, both from an economic and an environmental point of view.

The report states that local authorities are the competent authorities in the enforcement of these regulations in their functional areas but does the EPA want to take powers away from local authorities? Has any investigation been carried out to find out if dry recyclable waste has gone to landfill? Waste collection is now on a fortnightly basis and if one puts a blue bin out in the wrong week it will be taken and disposed of in the normal way, rather than left there.

Do the EPA, the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government and local authorities have any role in creating awareness of the environment and of people's responsibility to protect it? Does the EPA require extra powers to do that? The county managers' association is a very powerful body. Has the EPA had any input into its thinking on a national level?

The EPA states that in 2007 the number of civic amenity centres increased to 90. How slow has the progress been in that regard? I understand local authorities are somewhat reluctant to develop them because of their running costs.

A person planning a one-off house has to obtain a waste permit for filling in land but there should be an exemption if the applicant can prove that a filling comes from a place where it can be verified as not contaminated. It is very unfair to put people through the hassle of getting permits for a little bit of filling. As Deputy Johnny Brady said, a person who wants to fill in a sandpit incurs enormous costs.

Table 26 in the report refers to contaminated soil and the huge increase in 2006. Is that because industry is cleaning up its act by cleaning up sites and exporting soil?

Dr. Mary Kelly

Deputy Christy O'Sullivan asked about the polluter pays principle and the role of the consumer. The regulations for packaging, electronic equipment, batteries and a range of other items are designed to charge the producer for the costs relating to environmental damage. Such a fee should discourage producers from using the material in question where possible. For example, Repak charges a fee to producers of packaging for every plastic bag they put on to the market. However, there is no economy in the world in which the producer does not pass on the costs of production to the consumer. If the fee is designed properly it should encourage the producer to stop using the product in question and use something environmentally friendly. Economic instruments are cleverly designed to encourage people to move away from using the most dangerous, toxic and harmful substances. That is the basis of producer responsibility.

If people buy potatoes in a supermarket they have two options. They can buy them in an open bag or in a plastic bag but they can put the open potatoes into a reusable plastic bag. However, the consumer will pay for the plastic bag to the tune of the extra couple of cent charged for the product.

Dr. Mary Kelly

The Deputy is right and our emphasis is on developing initiatives to encourage people to prevent waste arising in the first place.

Is there any possibility of bringing in a law to prevent that from happening? There is no incentive because the cost is passed on to the consumer.

Dr. Mary Kelly

The new waste directive will require prevention targets but I do not know if they will apply in the detail suggested by the Deputy. It is frustrating for the Environmental Protection Agency that prevention is so difficult. A report from the European Environment Agency on waste management across Europe states that prevention initiatives are the most difficult to put in place. We will continue to try to get the national waste prevention programme into as many sectors as possible but there is no law against using a plastic bag in a supermarket.

Maybe we should look at introducing such a law.

Dr. Mary Kelly

It is up to the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, not the EPA.

Perhaps coming from the EPA such a suggestion would be taken on board.

A vote has been called in the Dáil Chamber, so we will conclude the meeting. All the questions have been asked, so I ask Dr. Kelly to look through her notes and reply in writing to the committee on any points she has not had the chance to address. I thank the EPA for attending.

The joint committee adjourned at 5 p.m. until 3.30 p.m. on Tuesday, 3 March 2009.
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