JOINT COMMITTEE ON THE IMPLEMENTATION OF THE GOOD FRIDAY AGREEMENT debate -
Thursday, 17 Apr 2008

Good Friday Agreement - Ten Years On: Discussion.

Chairman

Is cúis mór áthais dom céad fáilte a chur roimh an Taoiseach, an Teachta Parthalán Ó hEachthairn, chuig Coiste Chomhlíonadh Comhaontú Aoine an Chéasta. Ar mo shon fhéin, ar son ár gcomhleacaí uilig, ar son muintir na hÉireann, an pobal áitiúil ó Thuaidh agus ar son polaiteoirí uilig na tíre ba mhaith liom buíochas ó chroí a ghabháil leis as ucht an éacht iontach atá déanta aige chun síóchán a bhaint amach don tír. Táimid an-bhuíoch dó. Is ceannaire iontach cumasach cneasta atá ann agus tá an-obair déanta aige ar son muintir na hÉireann le blianta fada anuas. Tréaslaím leis agus gabhaim buíochas leis ar son an coiste agus muintir na tíre ar fad.

It is a great honour and privilege to welcome the Taoiseach, Deputy Bertie Ahern. He is accompanied by Mr. Martin Fraser and Mr. Paul McGarry, whom we also warmly welcome, from his Department.

As Chairman of the joint committee, I take this opportunity to pay public tribute to the Taoiseach on being one of the principal architects of the Good Friday Agreement, which has transformed the island of Ireland for ever. The Taoiseach's role in revitalising the peace process and his patience, resilience and determination, along with that of others - some of whom are present today - during complex and intricate negotiations has brought about an incredible change on this island.

The changes we have witnessed under the Taoiseach's stewardship include the overcoming of decades of mistrust, an end to a terrible legacy of communal violence, the decommissioning of weapons and the effective demilitarisation of Northern Ireland. We have seen a transformation in relations between Ireland and Britain and also the successful establishment of a power-sharing Administration in a positive and prospering Northern Ireland. These are truly remarkable achievements, which, ten years ago, we could not have anticipated coming to pass within our lifetimes.

Many others deserve praise for their brave roles in bringing the peace process to fruition. I refer to Mr. John Hume, Mr. David Trimble, Mr, Gerry Adams, Mr. Martin McGuinness, Dr. Ian Paisley, Mr. Peter Robinson, the former US President, Mr. Bill Clinton, the former UK Prime Minister, Mr. Tony Blair, former US Senator George Mitchell, General John de Chastelain, Mr. Albert Reynolds, Mr. John Major, the late Mo Mowlam, the late David Ervine and the many others who collaborated with the Taoiseach to secure this historic achievement.

I wish to acknowledge all of the civil and public servants - I include Deputy Martin Mansergh in this regard - who, whether based in Belfast, Dublin or London, did outstanding work. I have first-hand knowledge of the excellent efforts of these wonderful individuals because I was privileged to work alongside them at strand two level, under both Mr. Reynolds and the current Taoiseach

The people to whom I refer have made contributions to and deserve great credit for bringing about peace on our island. The Taoiseach's efforts and inclusive leadership have changed not just Irish but also Anglo-Irish politics for ever. We salute him once again on his herculean achievement. We are both grateful to and proud of him. I invite him to make his presentation, following which there will be comments and questions from members.

The Taoiseach

I thank the Chairman and members for this opportunity to address the committee and wish it well in its work. I hope the committee achieves all the objectives it has set out for itself in its work programme. I must inform the Chairman, members, Minister Gildernew and all of the Northern Ireland representatives that it is a pleasure to be here.

I welcome this opportunity to discuss the Good Friday Agreement, ten years on. The establishment of this committee is a reflection of the transformed political context on this island. There have been good developments in that regard in the past year, particularly with the restoration of devolved government in Northern Ireland and the successful operation of the institutions provided for in the Agreement. I am also delighted to have the opportunity at this forum to discuss developments in the implementation of the Agreement with colleagues from the Oireachtas and our counterparts from Northern Ireland.

It is particularly important that public representatives, North and South, have an opportunity to discuss together the work of the North-South Ministerial Council, the implementation bodies and areas of co-operation in which vital work is being done to improve the lives of the people on the island of Ireland. This is also an important oversight mechanism that increases the public accountability of the institutions and it will undoubtedly help to bring all of the work being done in this vital area to the attention of the wider public.

It is also fair to say that in recent years our relationship with the Unionist community has also been transformed. We recognise and value the central role the Unionist tradition has played in the life of this island. I fully appreciate the reasons many Unionist representatives feel unable to meet with us at this forum. However, I hope that, if not here, we will find a way where public representatives across the island can engage with each other on matters of interest to all our people for the benefit of all.

In recent weeks, there has been much commentary on the process leading to the Agreement and the major turning point which it marked for relationships on and between these islands. In reflecting on what has been achieved, I wish to acknowledge again the vision and leadership of successive Irish and British Governments. In that context, I refer to former Taoisigh, Garret FitzGerald, Charles Haughey, Albert Reynolds and John Bruton, former Prime Ministers, John Major and Tony Blair, and the leaders of the Northern Ireland political parties, John Hume, David Trimble, Gerry Adams, John Alderdice and Monica McWilliams, who led their delegations with courage and vision. As the Chairman stated, sadly Mo Mowlam and David Ervine, who played vital roles, and are no longer with us. I also wish to acknowledge the contributions of the members of the various political delegations, the members of various Cabinets in the Republic and the Ministers of State who were directly involved in the negotiations.

A large number of people were involved from the late 1980s onward. Working together, people in both communities and our friends in Europe and the United States - in particular former US Senator George Mitchell, former US President, Bill Clinton, and, subsequently, President Bush - transformed the political situation on this island and relations between Ireland and Britain and laid the basis for a new era of peace and prosperity for the benefit of everyone, North and South.

By adopting a comprehensive approach that addressed all the key relationships and enshrined a commitment to partnership, equality and mutual respect, the Agreement provided for the first time an enduring framework for co-operation between the two main traditions on this island. Those changes were hugely significant as they related to constitutional provisions in both Britain and Ireland, institutional changes, changes in security and justice arrangements and strong protection for human rights and much has been achieved in all those areas. The Agreement made possible a new dispensation on this island and we are now fully realising its benefits, following the restoration of the Northern Ireland Assembly and Executive just over one year ago. We are well placed to realise the very significant opportunities that present themselves.

Co-operation on North-South issues features prominently on the committee's work programme for the months ahead. I believe this demonstrates the vitality and dynamism of this element of the Agreement. In the negotiations on the Agreement laying the groundwork for North-South co-operation, we knew we needed a framework that would enable real and effective engagement. We envisaged a North-South Ministerial Council that would get real business done, with real outcomes that would improve people's lives, North and South. That is its purpose, on which it must be judged. Since restoration, we have entered a new era in all-island strategic co-operation. We are getting down to business.

I will not go into every area but I refer to the agenda of the North-South Ministerial Council in July last year. This was the first time in more than five years that Ministers, North and South, sat around a table together and we had a genuinely open and wide-ranging discussion. We intensified our deliberations in Dundalk in February, examining issues that affect our all-island economy. Practically every topical economic, social, health and educational issue was on the agenda. These are the bread and butter issues of political life and the engagement was substantial. We are also getting into the habit of co-operation, as happened, for example, when the Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food, Deputy Mary Coughlan, and Minister for Agriculture and Rural Development, Michelle Gildernew, worked together to fight the threats of animal diseases. This is an ongoing issue and it happens every year. That is a practical and sensible approach to deal with such issues.

For nationalists, there has always been a compelling logic to co-operation on a North-South basis but it is perhaps in the area of economic co-operation that the most persuasive argument for increased collaboration can be made and this is understood by all the parties represented on the Executive. We are, after all, sharing a small island in an increasingly globalised world. There is nowhere more globalised than this island. The latest figures highlight that 4% of globalised services emanate from the South. Our European colleagues were double checking the figure during the week because they could not believe it but it is true. We are a small fraction of the world's population but we provide 4% of such services, which is the fastest growing area. As we approach North-South co-operation practically on the basis of mutual benefit, I have no doubt we can make an all-island economy a resounding success. We are working together and making important progress in areas such as transport and education, agriculture and the environment, tourism and energy.

In a fast-moving and competitive international landscape, our island economy needs cutting edge research and innovation, which is why the Government is contributing €60 million to an exciting new joint innovation fund over the next few years with our colleagues in the North. We also need to focus on areas that require a joint approach. That is why we are working with the Executive to make the north west a key priority area through our north-west gateway initiative and contributing €580 million towards the upgrading of the A5 road to Derry and Letterkenny so that the region will realise its full potential, on which it lost out over many decades. We are assisting the Northern Ireland Executive in every way we can as it prepares to reposition Northern Ireland on the global stage ahead of the international investment conference in a few weeks.

The recent announcement by the Tánaiste and Minister for Finance and the Northern Ireland Minister for Finance and Personnel of co-operation in the financial services area is an example of a joined-up approach, which is important, and ensures a win-win situation for both the North and South. Both the Irish and British Governments have committed to participating at a high level in the investment conference and financial services is one area of potential success. Both Governments are determined to support Northern Ireland on the path to economic success, as we supported it on the path to political agreement. There is huge potential over the next five years and beyond.

A number of challenges remain, as always, as is the way with life. One never completes anything. Ten years after the Good Friday Agreement was signed, we have made a great deal of progress in its implementation but I refer to a number of areas where work needs to be done. A major achievement of the Agreement was the establishment of a police service in Northern Ireland as a policing force widely accepted across the community. This was a difficult but very necessary task, the realisation of which required considerable political courage. Huge progress was made over the years. Our SDLP colleagues who are present made a huge effort to move that on and everybody has followed suit.

This needs to be completed through the devolution of policing and justice powers to the Assembly and Executive and that will be a crucial step in the transformation of Northern Ireland. It was envisaged in the Good Friday Agreement and is provided for in the St. Andrews' Agreement. It is an essential element in a process that will give confidence at home and abroad that the Executive can take control of a matter which is so central to the lives of ordinary people. I have had many discussions with Prime Minister Brown on this and both of us have made clear that we consider that the time is right to proceed with this step. I have given this commitment to all our colleagues, including Sinn Féin colleagues who sought this and SDLP colleagues who supported the move, and it is crucial that this timeframe is lived by. It would be a disappointment if it were not.

While loyalist paramilitary groups have begun processes of transformation, they have not decommissioned. This is an outstanding and important element of the peace process. For our part, we remain committed to helping loyalist communities to move beyond the conflict of the past and secure the benefits that peace and prosperity bring. Perhaps the most daunting and long-term task facing us is that of combating sectarianism and promoting reconciliation. This task will be ongoing for a long number of years. The parties to the Good Friday Agreement specifically committed themselves to "partnership, equality and mutual respect as the basis for relationships within Northern Ireland, between North and South, and between these islands". In addition, we firmly dedicated ourselves "to the achievement of reconciliation, tolerance, and mutual trust".

These are the basis of the Agreement and we must honour them. I have no doubt the committee will keep a close eye on these issues in the years to come. These commitments are as relevant today as they were when we negotiated the Agreement ten years ago. They form the foundation stones for the new era of peace, partnership and prosperity which is being progressively built in Northern Ireland and across the island and between these islands.

We have also celebrated the history of all traditions on the island, most notably through the development of a visitors centre at the site of the Battle of the Boyne, which First Minister, Ian Paisley, and I will officially open in the coming weeks. Members of the House co-operated with me in making sure we resumed the Easter Rising ceremony at the GPO. I hope they continue at a low level over the next number of years and are ready for the 1916 centenary in eight years. I attended the commemoration of the Battle of the Somme at the Memorial Garden, Islandbridge. We have done a great deal of work where people of all traditions are now co-operating with each other. I refer to the commemorations held at Islandbridge which were attended in large numbers by all traditions from the North. We can look to a much brighter future, North and South, where we can respect each other's traditions and respect each other's shared beliefs. It is important we do that.

Healing decades of division and mistrust will take time. These are issues which will not be possible to put away in the filing cabinets for a long time. In my view they will be current issues for a decade or so because there is such a large number of issues that must be dealt with. It is a fundamental necessity to building a better and shared future for the people of these islands that we do that.

I thank the Chairman for inviting me and I thank the members of the committee from both North and South for attending to listen to me. I wish you all well in the work you will carry out in the years ahead.

Chairman

I thank the Taoiseach for his reassuring address and for the indications he has given that there are many opportunities ahead for collaboration in the interests of all our people.

I propose to take questions from members in groups of three. The Taoiseach will be here for at least half an hour. I ask members to be as brief as possible.

Deputy Seymour Crawford

I welcome the Taoiseach to the meeting and I pay tribute to the work he has done over the past ten and a half years. We have come a long way since the 1970s. I agree with him that other people also deserve credit for this progress. Dr. Garret FitzGerald and Dick Spring set up the Anglo-Irish Agreement which led to what we have today being possible. I well remember meeting Dick Spring when he was president of the EU Council and dealing with the Northern Ireland situation. He was a pretty exhausted person. I remember also my own party leader, John Bruton, and all the different groups who were involved. The Taoiseach was there during a very important time and used his undoubted expertise to bring about the final agreement known as the Good Friday Agreement. This is what we are celebrating today.

I pay tribute also to all the Ministers of State, together with the ambassadors of the United Kingdom and the USA. They and all the civil servants worked tirelessly behind the scenes to make this possible.

I recognise the funding that has been committed and I hope it will bear fruit soon in the form of cross-Border relationships. I refer in particular to my own local Ulster canal and the roadway which joins the fourth biggest city on the island, Derry, to Dublin. These are two very significant initiatives and I hope they carry through.

The Taoiseach referred to the fact that the Unionist parties were not in attendance today. Deputy Niall Blaney is Co-Chairman of the British-Irish Interparliamentary Body. I had very useful meetings with the Ulster Unionist Party and the DUP. I am fairly confident that in the not too distant future we will have them on the British-Irish Interparliamentary Body and perhaps steer them towards participation in this body as wellI welcome the fact that the MP from the Ulster Unionist Party conveyed her apologies so it is obvious she wishes to be involved in this forum.

The North-South Ministerial Council is an important and influential body. The Taoiseach referred to the role played by Ms Gildernew and our own Minister, Deputy Mary Coughlan, on the issue of foot and mouth disease. I would like to see co-operation on this issue because animal disease has no boundaries and we need an all-Ireland animal disease strategy. I hope this would lead to closer contacts all round.

The Taoiseach also referred to the new police force which has been a great success. The work of the policing body has to be recognised and it is hoped this will come forward, perhaps not by 8 May but in the not too distant future, and that control will be in Northern Ireland.

I must mention the close co-operation in the Monaghan and south Armagh area between the Garda Síochána and the PSNI. For the first time, both parties co-operated in an effort to track down the murderers of the late Paul Quinn and I hope that case can be brought to a conclusion.

The investment conference will be important and I hope the wee counties south of the Border will not be forgotten when investment is being considered. Those counties of Cavan, Monaghan and Donegal suffered more than most. Jobs can lead to the final solution to this problem because if people have work and money in their pockets, they will not become involved in other organisations.

I thank the Taoiseach sincerely for the work he has done and which has been recognised across the board. I wish his successor, Deputy Brian Cowen and Ian Paisley's successor in the North, Peter Robinson, continued success. I hope the Good Friday Agreement and the setting up of the Northern Assembly can lead to permanent co-operation between the people of this island which can only have good consequences.

Deputy Niall Blaney

I pay tribute to the Chairman for arranging this meeting. It says much for his foresight in marking this anniversary. I congratulate him on inviting the Taoiseach to address the committee. I wish to speak about two issues, namely, policing and the British-Irish Interparliamentary Body of which I am Co-Chairman.

On the policing issue, does the Taoiseach foresee major problems down the road or any setbacks in the make-up of the Northern Ireland Assembly if the deadline on policing is not reached? On the British-Irish Interparliamentary Body, we will need to move on. When I became Co-Chairman it was my aim to see the day when the body would have moved on and brought Unionists on board. Could the Taoiseach foresee that body shadowing the work of the British-Irish Ministerial Council? What benefits to democracy would this bring?

Much has already been said about the Taoiseach's work and he is aware of my opinions. I wish him well in any future career. He still has a lot of work to do and he is not finished yet.

Deputy Ruairí Quinn

I will first address my remarks to the Chairman. Perhaps inadvertently in the litany of names of politicians who have helped the construct a peace process on this island, he forgot to mention Liam Cosgrave and Brendan Corish, who negotiated Sunningdale. He perhaps forgot to mention Garret FitzGerald and Dick Spring who were at the signing of the Anglo-Irish Agreement in Hillsborough. If we do not remember our past, we are going to confuse our future and we cannot be sectarian or exclusive about our past. This committee is not complete until Unionists sit here comfortably and securely with us. They are not here today. The Taoiseach has been gracious in his remarks. He used the phrase "tolerance and mutual trust". There are 1 million people on this island whose forebears have been here for four centuries, which is longer than Europeans have been in North America, and we have yet to construct a relationship of tolerance and mutual trust. Their absence from this room today is an indication of the length of the journey we need to travel to meet them. Seamus Mallon famously said that the Good Friday Agreement was Sunningdale for slow learners.

I salute the Taoiseach. He knows how far back we both go. We entered Dublin Corporation on the same day many years ago. He has kept his hair. If I had my hair it would be the same colour as his. We have travelled a similar road. I do not believe anybody could have concluded the negotiations on the Good Friday Agreement other than the Taoiseach. For that I unreservedly salute him and thank him from the bottom of my heart.

However, we have a long distance to travel and we must do it with respect for mutual history, with respect for different loyalties and with respect for the diversity of different identities which has finally brought the European Union together to become the most successful peace project in the history of the world. I have one question for the Taoiseach. We talked about this matter over lunch and I learned much from the Northern Minister for Agriculture and Rural Development. How can we constructively create an all-Ireland economy and at the same time adhere to the principles of tolerance and mutual trust the Taoiseach indicated?

Chairman

I was addressing the item on the agenda and I used the word "others" on several occasions taking into account what was done before that. Members can be assured that we fully accept and respect everybody's contribution.

Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

Ar mo shon féin agus ar son Sinn Féin ba mhaith liom fáilte a chur roimh an Taoiseach chuig an choiste seo. Tá sé oiriúnach gur é seo an uair dheireannach, b'fhéidir, a mbeidh sé ag labhairt ag coiste Oireachtais mar Thaoiseach. Molaim é as an obair atá déanta aige thar na blianta, ó 1997 ar aghaidh, chun an próiseas síochána a chur chun cinn. On my own behalf and on behalf of Sinn Féin I extend a welcome to the Taoiseach to the Joint Committee on the Implementation of the Good Friday Agreement. This may very well be his last formal address to a committee of the Houses of the Oireachtas in his position of Taoiseach. I can be corrected if I have it wrong. If it is the case it is very appropriate, as he was the person responsible for bringing it into being. I join the commendations of his work to advance the peace process since he became Taoiseach in 1997. I was elected to the Dáil that same year and I voted for him as Taoiseach on that occasion which caused a bit of interest and reaction. I have not done so since and that was for other reasons, equally deserved. We have seen unquestionably a transformation on this island over the period since and without exception all who have participated in bringing this about are deserving of our collective appreciation, and deserving of the praise of the people of Ireland and internationally.

The peace process has been consolidated successfully. However, the new all-Ireland political process still needs significant assistance and encouragement. There is a need to help to bring about a coming together of Irish society on this island in political, social, economic and cultural terms. It is not only in the hands of elected representatives in this Chamber and this committee room, but also in the hands of ordinary citizens at grassroots level. I commend so much of the work that is taking place in my constituency and in Border counties where people at grassroots level are showing great example and getting on with that work successfully.

It is very important that this process is not allowed to come to a standstill or move along at a very slow pace. It is important that we collectively inject as much energy and enthusiasm to maintain the momentum and keep the process moving forward at all times. There is no end to the areas of co-operation that can be brought about. The six cross-Border implementation bodies can be added to. There is no end to the list of areas that we can collectively work together, co-operate, co-ordinate our approach and better serve the interests of people on the island as a whole. I welcome the Taoiseach's remarks and his encouragement that there is a continual investment of energy in that progress.

I have a number of specific questions I would like the Taoiseach to address. We are told there are comprehensive studies on the potential of all-island co-operation in the areas of health and education. We are told these have been undertaken or are being undertaken. Where stand these studies now? Can the Taoiseach advise us of any deadline for their completion? The Ceann Comhairle and the Speaker of the Northern Assembly have been discussing the all-Ireland parliamentary forum. Can the Taoiseach give us an indication of the stage those discussions have now reached? When can we expect an outcome and the establishment of the all-Ireland parliamentary forum?

Regarding structures committed to in the Good Friday Agreement and as yet unrealised, which are very much a focus of this committee's work, a joint committee of the commissions of human rights, North and South, has been formed and it has been addressing the proposed charter of rights. As with the earlier two areas on which I posed questions, at what stage is that process at this point in time? What can the Taoiseach tell us about the preparation of a draft charter of rights for the island of Ireland? When will it be published? I ask him to share with us whatever information he can at this juncture.

I expect other colleagues will address many other issues regarding policing, justice and the Irish language Act. I also want to reflect on the other important elements that have been committed to. Perhaps the Taoiseach could give us a brief indication. Deputy Crawford, a constituency colleague, has referred to the N2-A5, the proposed development from Monaghan through to Derry and Letterkenny respectively. Where are the plans for that at this point in time? The Taoiseach and his Government deserve commendation for the Ulster Canal project, taking on the funding of the initial stage of the link from Belturbet to Clones. Where are the plans at this point in time to bring it to the stage of commencement of works?

We saw a clear commitment regarding the last roads that remain to be reopened arising from the St. Andrews discussions and the subsequent meeting in Dundalk between the respective interested representatives North and South including the Minister for Foreign Affairs, Deputy Dermot Ahern. We need to see the restoration of Knockaginny and Annaghroe bridges, the last remaining closed bridges that were blown up by the British army. They link my home county of Monaghan with the neighbouring constituency represented here by the Minister for Agriculture and Rural Development, Ms Michelle Gildernew, MLA, MP.

Deputy Fergus O’Dowd

Ba mhaith liom a rá leis an Taoiseach go bhfuil muintir na hÉireann an-sásta as ucht an obair phearsanta a rinne sé ar son na tíre chun síochán a bhaint amach ó Thuaidh agus ó Theas. Is rud tábhachtach é go bhfuil muid ar fad anseo le chéile timpeall an bhoird. Le cúnamh Dé, ní bheidh sé i bhfad go mbeidh na hAondachtóirí linn chomh maith.

We are here today because people moved outside their narrow political mindsets and thought big for the country. The Taoiseach, in particular, has shown great leadership and done excellent work for the country, as have other holders of that office to whom he kindly referred.

Ten years ago, who would have thought that members of the SDLP, Sinn Féin, Fine Gael, Fianna Fáil and the Labour Party would come together to commemorate the signing of the Good Friday Agreement? It is an astonishing development, the result of people thinking big and moving in new directions. All of us must work together to move forward. The principle of co-operation and partnership is the key to the current peace.

From the perspective of my own family, I have been a witness to history in a small way due to my brother Niall's involvement in the peace process. At the time of the first IRA ceasefire, I drove him to different places. He was a frequent visitor to the United States Embassy where he would meet the former ambassador, Jean Kennedy Smith, who played an important role at the time.

Deputy Ruairí Quinn

Hear, hear.

Deputy Fergus O’Dowd

I was also with him in Dublin when the IRA ceasefire was announced. At the time, it was unbelievable that we had made such progress at last. All parties, Sinn Féin, the SDLP and the other parties represented, have moved away from the historical approach to these issues. The future lies in co-operating and working together.

I agree with colleagues that our task is to bring to this table the Unionist parties, who represent the community with which we must share this island with full respect and dignity. Above all, we must have open minds and think for the country, North and South, rather than pursue narrow interests.

Mr. Pat Doherty, MLA, MP

I am pleased to attend a committee meeting in Dublin with Members of the Oireachtas and the Taoiseach. It gives an indication of where we have come from and where we are at. Ten years on from the signing of the Good Friday Agreement and one year on from the re-establishment of the power-sharing institutions it is poignant that the Taoiseach and "big Ian" have announced they are moving on to greater things. One starts to reflect on the numerous meetings we attended all over the country. When I saw Deputy Martin Mansergh, it struck me that it is 20 years since we met in a monastery outside Dundalk. At that meeting someone pointed out that it was the first time representatives of Sinn Féin and Fianna Fáil had met since 1927.

One reflects also on all the issues we dealt with at these numerous meetings, some of which were held in the middle of the night at Government Buildings and other places. The names of people such as Fr. Alex Reid who did a huge amount of work in the background come to mind.

Sometimes we believe we have reached the conclusion to the issue. I believe we are in a transitional phase towards the reunification of our country. Unionists are engaging, albeit slowly and cautiously. The amount of work and dialogue taking place between the Nationalist-republican and Unionist communities is unbelievable. One cannot make public comment on much of it but it is proceeding. As we move through this phase, challenges will arise for colleagues, North and South. The single biggest challenge, however, is to make the Unionist community feel at ease with being part of it all, ensuring it does not feel excluded and providing assurance that nothing untoward will happen to it.

Colleagues have referred to the immediate issues with which we must deal, including the all-Ireland interparliamentary and consultative civic forums and the devolution of policing and justice. We will get around to addressing all these issues. As we tackle these challenges in this transitional phase, outreach will be needed in both directions, from North to South and vice versa, because the deep mark partition left on both sides of the Border will take time to address.

This is a good beginning and a good time to reflect on events but there is work ahead. Wherever the Taoiseach ends up, I know we will be able to lean on him and seek his advice.

Dr. Alasdair McDonnell, MLA, MP

While I could say a great deal, I will try to brief because time is not on our side. I pay tribute to the Chairman for the work he and members of the joint committee have done in bringing us all together for this extremely useful meeting. In the day that is in it, I pay particular tribute to the Taoiseach for the tremendous work he has done and commitment he has shown over the years. As some of the stories to have leaked out have shown, it would have tried the patience of Job and a bit more to have come through some of the things he had to put up with. His work at times would be better described as endurance.

I am very grateful to the Taoiseach for the progress achieved on the island of Ireland, especially in the North. While we are not quite there yet, we have achieved a great deal. I also pay tribute to the efforts made by many others whose roles go back to the early 1970s. I include in this regard the contacts to which Deputy Ruairí Quinn referred. Like him, I believe only the Taoiseach, through his supreme negotiating skills, could have put the final touches to it and closed some of the final arguments.

I was particularly privileged to have been present in the House of Commons when the Taoiseach addressed the joint Houses in London. The occasion was one of the highlights of my political life. As the Taoiseach spoke, I could see British-Irish relationships changing and moving as old hatreds melted away, particularly those on the British side with which I had become familiar since entering the House of Commons. In the aftermath of the Taoiseach's address, I find that many of our friends on the Labour Party benches are nearly as interested in Irish politics as in British politics. The entire relationship has changed and I pay tribute to the Taoiseach for his role in that. I also thank him for the tremendous personal help and kindness he has shown me and others on an individual level. All of us in the SDLP are extremely grateful to him for that.

To address the hard-nosed stuff, as it were, as other speakers noted we have not so much reached the end of our problem but the end of the beginning of solving it. We have overcome the first major hurdle and tremendous changes have taken place in the past year. However, the challenge facing us is to identify how to widen and deepen co-operation between North and South. Very real - perhaps "surreal" is the most appropriate word - barriers have been erected since 1921 or 1922.

As Deputy Ó Caoláin noted, we must work on issues and make changes that affect people's lives. In the area of health, in particular, we can do a great deal. While we seem to have made progress in terms of political or social health or some of the administration aspects of health, we must move very quickly to have free movement across the Border to avail of health services. We all have friends who have been affected by serious illness, especially cancer, and we must ensure therefore if there is a service in the North for a particular cancer, everyone on the island can avail of it. Equally, those from the North should be able to avail of a service for a particular cancer in the South. Ireland is a small island and this needs to be achieved.

I escaped Northern Ireland through discrimination. I was not let into Queen's University Belfast, and I ended up in University College Dublin. I thank God for this every day. I came into contact with individuals such as Deputy Quinn and others, who corrupted me politically. Otherwise I would not be here today.

Quite often there are barriers to access to university education at the top level. Some of the law degrees and various courses cannot be undertaken with the A levels in the North. This presents a challenge. People ask me in my constituency office how they can get into Trinity College Dublin, or University College Dublin considering that the points barrier is too high. I would like to ensure as many people as possible from the North can get into southern universities.

Deputy Quinn referred to the need to create a process that respects the Unionist tradition. We need to address the issues associated with common need and the common good regarding which we can unite. The Taoiseach has helped to lay the foundation for new Ireland in the 21st century. How do we create the space for Unionism to explore the development of, and take its place in, that new Ireland to its full potential? It cannot be your Ireland, my Ireland or that of anyone else; it must be a collective one. That is the big challenge.

Mr. Pat Doherty referred to some of the changes taking place. I agree with him that change is rampant. Much change is at a micro level. If this committee has a job, it is to bring all the strands together and create the space so Unionists can sit at this table.

Deputy Martin Mansergh

I remember the meeting 20 years ago at the end of which Mr. Pat Doherty offered me a lift to Dublin which he knew I could not accept. I would accept the offer today, assuming it were renewed.

Reference was made to Mr. Niall O'Dowd. I acknowledge the extraordinarily important and influential work he did in the United States.

One may not be aware of the countless hours of meetings and telephone calls involving the Taoiseach and the absolute priority he accorded to the peace process. He was open to all parties and never faltered in patience and determination. His relationship with Tony Blair had no precedent in territorial disputes, still less in Anglo-Irish or British-Irish history.

On the historical significance of what has been achieved, the agreement is not just a peace treaty at the end of 30 years of conflict but a new settlement effectively replacing that of 1920-21. There are some loose ends but I agree with Deputy Ó Caoláin that the process essentially has been brought to a successful conclusion and has been consolidated.

As the Taoiseach said in his Westminster speech, it is not the end of history. However, a major change has taken place and traditions are working together for the first time in 200 years. The Joint Committee on Agriculture, Fisheries and Food, chaired by Deputy Johnny Brady, discussed some weeks ago in the North the subject of the World Trade Organisation talks. It had a very successful meeting with its Stormont counterpart.

Economic conditions are now totally different from those of the past. To a certain extent, Dublin is now acting as a locomotive for the entire island. I regret there are still a few people on the fringes trying to keep space open for renewed violence, despite the absolute rejection of further violence by the rest of the community, North and South. Many of us in this room look forward to a united Ireland that will be brought about peacefully. However, a united Ireland, like a united Germany, is inconceivable outside the context of a united Europe. This should be borne in mind when we are voting in June.

I had the opportunity to say to Tony Blair on 8 May in Stormont that he had done better than Gladstone. The Taoiseach has transcended all his predecessors, to whom I also pay credit.

Deputy Joe McHugh

I thank everyone who has been involved in the process over recent years. I thank the Taoiseach for his genuine efforts to bring us to where we are today. To borrow his slogan from the last election, this committee finds itself having to take the next steps. There is plenty of work for it to do and I look forward to the participation of all representatives, including those from the Unionist tradition.

Let me focus on economics. We will not have an economic plan for our country if we do not have an inclusive debate. The Taoiseach mentioned the €580 million for the A5-N2 road. When the project is completed, I have no doubt the Taoiseach will be using the road to come to Downings on holiday, as he has done in the past.

On the making of announcements on new roads or innovation funds, we are not in the business of playing catch-up any more in the north west and Cavan-Monaghan. In saying "the north west", I include Pat Doherty's area west of the Bann. We have been neglected historically and traditionally by central government, be it in London or Dublin. The challenge is to achieve proper, balanced regional development. I, as a politician, do not advocate the business of playing catch-up. We must put the neglected regions to the forefront in terms of competitiveness and we must introduce proper next-generation broadband and whatever else is required to stimulate the economy. Playing catch-up is not good enough and this is a challenge for the committee. I look forward to working with the Chairman because we are involved now in the serious business of economic generation.

Senator Cecilia Keaveney

Today is another of those days on which we recognise that there has been much progress for ordinary people achieved by extraordinary people. I put the Taoiseach at the helm of the good ship Progress.

I agree with Pat Doherty's statement that it is another step. It scares the life out of me to see so many people celebrating the tenth anniversary of the Good Friday Agreement as if were being put up on a shelf and were to be framed and signed by all the various partners.

When I referred to progress for ordinary people, I was thinking of my own life. I live in Donegal and did not live among those at the heart of the Troubles. However, I was born in Derry in 1968 and my grandfather's pub was blown up in the 1970s. I do not know the reason - he might not have paid those seeking protection money. I experienced the bomb scares of the 1980s while going to and from Jordanstown. I did the opposite to Dr. Alasdair McDonnell; he went South and I went North. One cannot study in the North now because of the student fees.

In the 1990s, I was teaching for a brief period in Derry. My car was regularly taken apart by the British army at the checkpoint at Culmore. It was great to watch the same checkpoint being dismantled in the 1990s.

At one time a group of us from Jordanstown looked like idiots, when in England, standing at the door of a shopping centre, waiting to be searched. We did not know that they did not search people in England. Somebody copped that we would not be searched, so we went in. There was something happening, as indicated by a siren outside. None of us spoke to anyone else, but we all ended up outside, because a siren in Belfast, Derry or anywhere in the North meant in effect, "Get the frig out of there". Pardon the fact that this is not diplomatic or parliamentary language, but--

Mr. Pat Doherty, MLA, MP

The Senator is being emotional.

Senator Cecilia Keaveney

I was emotional when I thought of it again. We did not realise that we ordinary people were warped by what had happened to us. There is an enormous legacy that affects very ordinary people who were not at the core at all and it is ongoing.

I laughed when I heard about Deputy Martin Mansergh's experience of getting lifts or not in the car. I got a lift from boys who probably did not want me in the car at all, but Deputy Éamon Ó Cuív refused to give me a lift at that time, after some work with ex-prisoners in the mid-1990s. Thankfully, we moved on to the new millennium and now we are now sitting together. People say the Unionists are not here, but there has been a good deal of work done at local authority level where most of the political parties were in attendance. If that type of initiative could be further developed, we should be flying.

Infrastructural development, health and development co-operation are massively important for my area. Dr. McDonnell talked about health and the announcement of the cancer radiation centre for Derry. However, it comes down to open access and people feeling they are equal regardless of whether they are one side or another. I had only one question to ask but I wish to ask a subsidiary question to it. Deputy Ó Caoláin mentioned the issue of the Border roads that are not open. There is actually one still in Muff, Coney Road, Cannings Lane. If one looks up the parliamentary questions in the Official Report for the ten years 1996-2006 one will find that I have raised this on a regular basis. The Taoiseach might do one more stroke of the pen with some of the boys in the North before he leaves. This is a very small issue, but it is very big, locally, namely, that a bridge still needs to be fixed. The bridge is the problem, and the Taoiseach has been brilliant at fixing bridges. It would enable the people of Derry to get to Donegal even faster.

I have a serious question. With the huge development of the political institutions and local decision making, is the Taoiseach concerned that ten years after the Good Friday Agreement, there are 17 more peace walls - and extensions of peace walls - than before it was signed? If we forget the economic implications of segregation, it comes down to questions that have already been asked. What steps can we now take to support the people of Ulster - I do not say the Unionists, but rather the people of Ulster - to move towards mutual respect and learn to work and live peacefully together, rather than preferring to live happily in segregation? Who is going to lead that work?

Is the Taoiseach concerned, particularly, about those who are not in school or those who have seen the Troubles and are now at the stage where they want peace? In other words, does the Taoiseach have a particular concern for the 18 to 25 year old age group? How can we make a structured intervention with targeted funds that will ensure they see the benefits of the peace as they would not have recognised the difficulties of the past?

I salute the work the Taoiseach has done. He has been brilliant.

Deputy Margaret Conlon

I dtosach, ba mhaith liom fáilte a chur roimh an dTaoiseach. Tá an-áthas orm bheith anseo inniu chun mo buíochas a ghabháil don Taoiseach as ucht an obair a rinne sé ar son na daoine sa tír seo, agus molaim é.

It is right and proper that the committee recognises the achievement of the Good Friday Agreement and the work political parties on all sides and divides have put in, mindful of the enormous courage that was needed to take that last step. It is also right and proper that we salute the Taoiseach for the personal sacrifices made - I am thinking of the day the agreement was signed, in particular - to ensure no stone was left unturned and that the event took place.

I visited Belfast recently, not having had occasion to go there for six or seven years. While one can see that Northern Ireland is prospering, there are still parts of Belfast where the gates are up, no-go areas, with the murals still on the walls indicating the mindset in particular parts of the city. While there has been enormous progress, further courageous steps need to be taken. I see great potential for co-operation North and South, and like my two constituency colleagues, I can attest that while there have been moves in that regard, a good deal still needs to be done, particularly in the areas of education and health. The health committee from Northern Ireland came here to meet our committee and a return visit is in the pipeline. I welcome such co-operation, as we can learn from each other's experience.

Over lunch we were talking to the Minister, Ms Michelle Gildernew, and the problems that face farmers in the South are no different to those facing their colleagues in the North. There is tremendous co-operation between the two Ministers, as we saw during times of crisis. When we had to face the threat of bluetongue, foot and mouth or whatever we learned that there are issues that respect no Border, and certainly we have to be in a position to work well together.

In terms of policing, my fear is that the deadline will come upon us suddenly. I ask whether the date is set in stone. If the deadline is not met, I hope that if there are signs of progress, something can be done - or it will be a lost opportunity. I, too, regret that our Unionist colleagues have not been in a position, in the words of the Taoiseach, to trust and tolerate us sufficiently to join us here in our discussions. Only then will we have real and meaningful discussions and deliberations. If there were no challenges we should not be here, but these must be seen as opportunities. We must do all we can to turn the challenges into opportunities.

My hope is that we, as a committee, can replicate the Taoiseach's energy and enthusiasm, as displayed over the ten years in his commitment to the Good Friday Agreement and peace on this island. I hope we shall be able to do this in the discharge of our duties. I wish the Taoiseach well. On behalf of everybody on the island of Ireland - those who have passed on, those who are here and children yet unborn - we owe him an enormous debt of gratitude.

Mr. Eddie McGrady, MP

I thank the Taoiseach for his address on this very nostalgic occasion for me and many others, the tenth anniversary of that Holy Thursday in 1998. I well remember being in the upper room, as it were, with the Taoiseach on that occasion. He had just come back from the very sad family event, his mother's burial service, and I could not be but absolutely astounded by the dedication, bravery and determination he showed on that evening. It is something I shall never forget, and I want to put this on record.

That was a very difficult week. In the small hours of Good Friday, when the white smoke went up, if that is not a poor analogy on this occasion, it was a tremendous sense of relief for the people of Northern Ireland. One of the high watermarks of democracy in Ireland, indeed, was the subsequent endorsement North and South of the Agreement. The setting up of the structures for peace, prosperity and progress was based on that, which in turn was based on the analogy going back to the Sunningdale convention of 1974. Since then we have a growing together of our communities - a working and evolving together that is increasingly bringing us forward into a normal society. I said at lunchtime that after 30 or 40 years of violence, we will have a legacy of people who are used to violence and who have used it for different purposes. Even our younger children inherited some of that ethos, which is unfortunate. We will have sporadic and unacceptable community developments.

Policing is one of the most rewarding and successful aspects of the Good Friday Agreement. I had the privilege, the honour, the fear and the satisfaction of being a member of that first police board. Nothing gave me greater satisfaction in those first four years than transforming - that is what we did - the RUC into the PSNI, and to see all our young people from all communities addressing their commitment to society by joining their police service. There were thousands of applications.

There are a number of loose ends and I will refer to them only briefly, because the Taoiseach has spent much time with us already. The Good Friday Agreement has evolved over the years. It evolved slightly in the Northern Ireland Act 2000. It evolved with the Saint Andrews Agreement, not to my liking, but it evolved nonetheless. The principal reward for that agreement was the devolution of policing and justice and the Irish language. The DUP allegedly agreed to that but has since stood up and said "No" to the Irish language and to the devolution of policing until it sees fit. This is one of the unfortunate consequences of the veto given to that party at the time. The other area the two Governments must address more urgently is the victims and survivors, both North and South of the Border. That is a very difficult, very emotional area, but it must be addressed if we are to make the wounds more tolerable, even though they will never be healed.

The signing of the Good Friday Agreement was the emancipation of hope for the people of Ireland. Our task is now the emancipation of the opportunity given to us by that. It is an evolutionary process and not a static one. It will take time and healing, but it is an evolutionary process that will take us to that new, acceptable Ireland that we can all endorse.

I want to make one final point on Unionist participation. Unionists will participate. I have worked with Unionists in my constituency for around 40 years. Unionists will attend this Chamber when it is politically and economically beneficial to them and their community. That is what we must address, which is the equality of opportunity in reality, and not in a condescending way.

Ms Michelle Gildernew, MLA, MP

Go raibh maith agat, a Chathaoirligh. I thank the Chairman for organising this meeting today. This is the second of three that I can attend and I am delighted to be here. We had a discussion at lunch time about some of the opportunities we have to move things forward. Agriculture is a vehicle for that. Last February, President McAleese hosted the Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food and I at an evening engagement in Áras an Úachtarán, and members of the different farmers' groups across the island were also in attendance. It was a very significant evening and within weeks the Ulster Farmers Union and the Irish Farmers Association had joint meetings with the Minister and I. They attended protests and discovered the benefits of working together. We already punch above our weight in areas where we did not have a global impact when we were divided. There is great potential if we work together. That is one of the areas in which I would like to see this committee move forward.

I was in Australia when the IRA ceasefire was called, when I met the Taoiseach's predecessor, Albert Reynolds, for the first time. He also deserves a mention today. I would also like to share a personal memory of Deputy Ahern's time as Taoiseach. I was in the Taoiseach's office a few days after I got elected to the Fermanagh South Tyrone constituency, 20 years after Bobby Sands took the seat. The Taoiseach gave me a hug that showed how delighted he was that we had won that seat. I hope he does not mind that I share that memory. I wish him well in the future. No doubt we will still be seeing him around.

The issues outstanding from the Good Friday Agreement relate to policing, justice and the Irish language, and we must press on with them. I think we will see the Unionists in these fora. The more we work in partnership, the more we encourage them to work with us for the betterment of all our people. There is much we can do, but there is a great feeling of optimism. I wish the Taoiseach well in his future career and I am delighted to be here today.

Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

He was not as happy when I won my seat in Cavan-Monaghan.

Deputy Margaret Conlon

He was thrilled when I won mine.

Senator Donie Cassidy

I will be brief because everything has been said. I thank the Chairman for convening us on this historic occasion. It is a great privilege to be a member of this committee and it can make great progress over the coming years. It is a great idea that came from a wonderful proposal by the Taoiseach. I see us making progress in the areas of health, education, tourism and agriculture, which we had been discussing over lunch.

Not in our wildest dreams as legislators could have we have hoped for this ten years ago, but to see it happening today and to have the Taoiseach present is a dream come true. The Taoiseach has played a major part in advancing Ireland to where it is today. I hope we can experience the united Ireland, Gaelic and free, within our lifetime. The Taoiseach has led all-Ireland trade missions all over the world. Whether it was in India, China, Abu Dhabi, Dubai or Riyadh, he was the person admired in all those countries. He has built up a huge wealth of goodwill that has benefited Ireland both North and South. It has been an honour and a privilege to have worked with the Taoiseach. He has built up an exemplary trust between those he has worked with, and it has motivated every one of us to do our utmost on behalf of the people of Ireland. I wish him well and I hope he has central role to play in the affairs of Ireland for many years to come.

Deputy Eamon Scanlon

I thank everybody involved in what was a difficult process many years ago. There is no doubt that there would be hundreds of people dead in the last ten years but for the risks taken by the people in this room and others who are not in this room today. We should remember that. I particularly thank the Taoiseach for the work he has done. There is no doubt that we in Fianna Fáil will miss him and the people of Ireland will miss him.

All politics is local, so I would like the representatives from the North to remember the N16 from Sligo to Belfast through Manorhamilton. There is definitely more interaction between the people in the North and the South, but especially in the Border counties. There is no doubt the Border counties suffered due to the Troubles. I notice when I walk around Sligo on a Friday, Saturday or Sunday the number of people coming from Northern Ireland to shop or holiday. The same is happening with people from our areas going to Belfast and other parts of Northern Ireland for weekend breaks and holidays. This is to be welcomed and is a result of the great work that has been done. Hopefully, it will continue and, please God, everything will work out at the end of the day.

Chairman

We are very grateful to the Taoiseach, who has been with us for 45 minutes longer than expected. We will leave it in his hands as to how long he wishes to stay with us.

The Taoiseach

I will try to answer some of the questions. I thank everybody for the remarks they have made. It has been an inclusive process, which is what made it a success.

Several speakers referred to what can be done to establish a North-South parliamentary forum. We discussed this issue at both of the plenary meetings of the North-South Ministerial Council when we noted it was ultimately a matter for the respective legislative bodies. I understand contact is ongoing between the Oireachtas and the Northern Ireland Assembly on the issue and between the Ceann Comhairle and William Hay, to whom I have spoken and who has visited Dublin. He knows my view, which is the same as the views of others here, namely, that we would like to see this matter brought forward. There have been recent exchanges of visits between the Oireachtas and the Assembly at committee level, which is a very positive development. The Government wants and remains very committed to the earliest establishment of the parliamentary forum. It is important we achieve that.

We are also committed to the establishment of the consultative forum, which is important because it is wider than just the political system. We have had positive and very useful discussions with the social partners and other interested groups. Based on these consultations, we have put forward a proposal on a consultative forum to the Executive. Work is continuing on this and it will be fully complete in the next few months. The Northern Ireland Executive is currently undertaking a review of its own arrangements and it is consulting civic society in Northern Ireland. It is envisaged that there will be further consideration of the consultative forum at the North-South Ministerial Council when that review is complete. It is work in progress and we should keep moving in that regard.

A number of speakers referred to the devolution of policing. Mr. Eddie McGrady, MP, has just given his views, which I share. The target date of May this year was an integral part of the agreement reached at St. Andrews in October 2006. The date was not forced out of anybody. It was given, and it was to be May. Under the terms of that agreement, all-party support for the institutions of policing and criminal justice is now in place. Huge work has been done on this issue. We have the full participation of Sinn Féin on the policing board and the district policing boards. As Mr. McGrady said, all the work done in recent years has borne a huge amount of fruit.

Frankly, I do not see any reason for further delay in transferring policing and justice powers to the Assembly and the Executive. The demand from the community on both sides is for political leaders to take responsibility in this area, as they have done in education, health and other areas. An enormous amount of preparatory work has been done and much power has already been devolved to the policing boards. I hope the parties will now get down to finding agreement on the remaining issues of timing and practical arrangements.

Everything does not have to happen overnight on these issues but people should be clear on where they are. To be fair to Sinn Féin colleagues, they must report back on the issue. They moved to this position on a particular basis, and I have made this clear time and again to the British Prime Minister and to others. When they had responsibilities and I urged them to live up to those responsibilities, this was what was asked for and this date was given. The matter should be dealt with. With the greatest respect to my Northern political colleagues, despite the waiting, delaying and dragging things out, and ultimately we get there, and all it ever does is pull us back from doing something in a gracious manner. If one is going to do something, one might as well do it, particularly if one has agreed to it. I accept some practical issues remain but I would strongly advise that this be got on with. The basis for dragging it out does not exist. I think that will happen.

Clearly, the request for powers to be devolved can only happen by agreement among the parties - it cannot be done any other way. There is no point shouting at Prime Minister Brown to do it if there is no agreement. There is clear support for devolution to take place and it is in no-one's interest that the issue be allowed to drag on. I plead with people to move this on. It would be of huge benefit.

Reference was made to the Irish language issue. From the Government's point of view, we remain firmly committed to the introduction of the Irish language legislation and that has been our position throughout. It is set out in the St. Andrew's Agreement and we have clearly stated it in our current programme for Government. The Minister, Deputy Ó Cuív, has indicated the importance of this issue for the Government to Minister Poots in his various meetings. It is unfortunate it has not moved on. The issue is a devolved matter and therefore it is up to the Executive and the Assembly to find an agreed way forward. It is in the best in interests of the Irish language, Irish speakers and those who have a great grá for the language, which includes most of us, even if we are not fluent. In the meantime, we can continue to explore with the British Government how progress can be made with regard to non-devolved language issues. There are also issues around the broadcasting fund and other important issues.

Deputy Ó Caoláin asked about the draft charter of rights. The all-island charter remains a matter in the first instance for the joint committee of the two human rights committees. It would seem logical, however, to wait until the outcome of the Bill of Rights process in Northern Ireland becomes clear before taking further steps in regard to the charter. I understand the Northern Ireland Human Rights Commission is due to present its advice in this regard to the Secretary of State before 10 December next. That does not mean it has to go that far but it must be done by that date.

The comprehensive study on health is under way. The interim report was released in November, about a month before Christmas. The final report is due in June or perhaps as late as mid-July, before the holiday period. The work on education is not as far advanced.

Work on the roads issue is well under way. A feasibility study or a roads study is to get under way and will be done this year. There is much debate in the project teams and engineering teams in that regard and we have allocated funding for that. I say to our Northern colleagues that the more this issue is advanced, the better. We know from our own position that construction inflation eats into allocations of funding. If one does not get on with the project, one will lose more time.

The canals issue is one on which we have been supportive. In all my discussions with David Trimble over the years, I had to spend time studying him and I realised he had two great loves. One was opera, which I knew nothing about, so I confined myself to canals, because I had them in my constituency. We used to spend a lot of time pushing our way with the canals. I did get more into opera later when Deputy Brendan Howlin kept annoying me about rebuilding the Wexford Opera House, which I understand is nearly finished. Hopefully, we can invite David Trimble down to that. I promised we would, so somebody had better do that.

Senator Cecilia Keaveney

Is this a new career?

The Taoiseach

Somebody else can look after that invitation.

Two other points are very important. Deputy Quinn made a point on how we can, based on mutual respect and trust, advance the all-island economy. In my view, this must be built on every week and every month from henceforth. The investment conference will kick off a new leg in this regard. I do not say this as criticism but everyone here and in Northern Ireland realises that the public sector portion of GDP in Northern Ireland is not sustainable. I say this with the greatest of respect but it simply cannot continue. The only way of successfully moving on is to replace it with the private sector, which will require great co-operation. While we can play a major part in that, it can only be done by agreement. Peter Robinson has a good phrase, namely, win-win by agreement. Eddie McGrady has just made the point, as had Pat Doherty earlier, about dealing with these matters and respect. As for all these issues, if we agree to make progress on agriculture, infrastructure, industry and European issues while working together all the time, the mindset of an all-island economy will win support. Moreover, the sense and reality of doing it that way will have their own benefits at some time in the future. However, if we rush this fence, people will build up suspicions and antagonisms and it will not be done. Although I fervently support the implementation bodies, it does not matter whether this happens through an implementation body. We can really make progress once we have co-operation and when people see it is by working together on a North-South basis. In my view, ultimately they will see that there is far more co-operation between the North and South than in looking to joint colleagues across the water. This will be the reality. While perhaps this will not happen overnight, people will see that. We simply must do this, but always while respecting one other and working very carefully.

The other hugely important item concerns victims and survivors. I refer to the reason these matters cannot be jumped over quickly. I have met endless groups of those who have been victims, in one way or another, of the Troubles. As for the survivors of the victims of the Troubles who went to their eternal reward from all sides of the community, it is not possible for this issue to move on at the same pace as the administrative or legislative progress. It simply is not humanly possible, for obvious reasons. Some people have the ability to turn the page and move on quickly. Other people can never turn the page and it simply is not possible. I have seen this repeatedly. I have been in a room - and people present in this room have brought such groups to me - and although the event might have happened in 1972, 1974 or 1984, it does not really matter. The story is given as though it happened last night. One hears chapter and verse on the circumstances and the aftermath and in my view, there is not a way to give closure to some people, other than to try to assist them in every way possible.

As for those who have never been found, it is amazing what the discovery of a body, or a site where a body was laid, does. I know that people who are present have worked hard to try to help in this respect. As for the Victims Commission work of John Wilson and others such as Frank Murray who is now involved, this must continue. Another aspect is helping, counselling and understanding, as well as trying to bring people together. However, this is a drawn-out process and we must help them as best we can. This applies to people in the South as well as in the North. While it predominately took place in the North, we must be highly sensitive towards those who were deeply affected by the Dublin and Monaghan bombings and other issues and must spend much time on them in the years ahead.

This is a worthwhile committee, which has done some good work today. I thank members for their comments to me and equally, I wish to extend such comments to all the others who were involved in this issue at every political and administrative level, including civil servants both past and present. While there is an enormous amount of work that could be done, I wish to make a point. Forty years have elapsed since the current period of the Troubles began. Senator Cecilia Keaveney noted that she remembered the start of the Troubles in 1968 and Pat Doherty referred to his first meeting with Deputy Martin Mansergh. While 40 years is a long time, it is not really a long time in the history of the country. The next ten to 15 years, which will bring us up to 2020 or thereabouts, constitutes a short period. While it sounds like a long time when one adds it to one's own life, it is a short period. It should be used to bed down the Good Friday Agreement and the review of the St. Andrews Agreement and to try to implement the all-island basis wherever we can, while respecting people's positions and keeping the temperature down, because this issue has the capacity to boil over very easily.

This is not a business for people with short fuses. One is better off looking at the roof. Over the years I became expert, in Castle Buildings and Hillsborough, at studying the architecture of the roof and things like that and wondering how they were built, because were one not to do so, one would simply lose it. Deputy Ruairí Quinn is familiar with how intricate the architecture is and it probably was useful to look at the roof. One could spend several hours trying to work out how it would have been designed in the first place, rather than speaking. However, it is amazing how the next day can bring a different position. People have a different attitude in the morning and are not quite as uptight. This issue requires very careful attention over the period ahead.

For my part, working on the Northern peace process has been of great interest. While of course it has its frustrations, there is nothing better than seeing the progress that can be made over time. I wish to thank all present in this room, as well as all those represented by their party structures, both those who have been involved in this process and those who have not, for their support. The support that I received across the party bases during 11 years as Taoiseach has made it far easier to be able to do things. There were times when we were obliged to do very difficult things, attend difficult meetings and contend with difficult issues. Moreover we were obliged to deal with some people despite the unhappiness of others at times that we were so obliged. However, people were tolerant, which I appreciate.

In particular, I wish to thank people for mentioning the week of Good Friday, which was a difficult week. However, my great memory of that week took place during the night. I never knew the duration of the final session of the negotiations until Senator George Mitchell pointed out to us at both the meetings in Belfast last week and Dublin Castle on Friday night, that it lasted 58 hours and ten minutes. It was a long period and I did not sleep during it, although I believe a few people did. I know that Ken Magennis took Tony Blair's bed during that period, which meant that Tony Blair did not get into the bed. I remember that well. He returned quite upset that he was not going to get any sleep. However, we continued on.

My great memory was that I became fed up at one stage because one person was supposed to meet me at approximately 5 a.m. but had gone off to bed. However, I noticed it was snowing outside and, with a few of my officials, I went out a fire door that had no alarm, so we thought we were okay. The rooks were nesting. They were working on their nests in the early morning, which was quite bright because the snow was falling and the floodlights were on. We were intrigued that the rooks would bother to build their nests and we moved down into the grounds but obviously someone finally spotted us on a security camera. I was quite enjoying the snow - to wake up - when approximately ten not too peaceful-looking RUC men came with their machine guns and began to interrogate us as to why we were there. I replied that it was simply part of our interest in the Good Friday Agreement to know how rooks made their nests and that we might learn something from it. We were told to get the hell out of it. We then went back inside. I had not met RUC men with machine guns at 5.30 a.m. that often but it led me to believe that some people must have had a rough enough existence during those times. It was a good experience.

I thank this committee for its ongoing work on this issue and wish it well. As many people have said here, there is still a significant amount of work to do. I look forward to and think we will see the day when the other parties will join in. Deputy Quinn is right in saying that they need to be here. They can be convinced and cajoled. It may take a while but we should have patience with them because they will come around.

Chairman

I thank the Taoiseach for the detail and warmth of his responses and the amount of time he has given us, which is an hour longer than what we had agreed. We are very grateful for that.

Today is a very historic day where elected Members, North and South, meet to review the past ten years and indeed the past and to look to the future with great optimism and hope. The Taoiseach has deservedly secured his place in Irish history as an outstanding statesman for his instrumental role in securing a permanent peace on the island of Ireland.

This nation and all of its people, North and South, will be forever in his debt. There will be no going back to the dark days of the Troubles. Our island has been transformed forever. The Taoiseach and others with and before him have taken great risks for peace. The people of Ireland are now enjoying the rewards of peace as brought to all parts of our country. I thank him sincerely on behalf of everybody here. Every Irish man and woman is so grateful to him for all he has done. Go raibh míle maith agat arís. Guím gach beannacht ort sna blianta atá os ár gcomhair amach. Le cúnamh Dé, casóidh muid le chéile go minic sna blianta sin.

The Taoiseach

Go raibh maith agat.

The joint committee went into private session at 4.32 p.m. and adjourned at 4.35 p.m. until Thursday, 15 May 2008.