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JOINT COMMITTEE ON THE IMPLEMENTATION OF THE GOOD FRIDAY AGREEMENT debate -
Friday, 27 Apr 2012

Northern Ireland Peace Process and the Good Friday Agreement - 14 Years On: Discussion with Senator George Mitchell

I am pleased to welcome US Senator George Mitchell to the meeting. George J. Mitchell has a distinguished career in public service and an illustrious career in the US Senate spanning 15 years. He left the Senate in 1995 as the Senate Majority Leader, a position he had held since January 1989. He enjoyed bipartisan respect during his tenure and, for six consecutive years, was voted the most respected Member of the Senate by a bipartisan group of senior congressional aides. It was a welcome honour and most of us would love to be voted on by our peers in that way.

In 1995, Senator Mitchell served as a special adviser to President Clinton regarding Ireland. From 1996 to 2000, he served as independent chairman of the Northern Ireland peace talks. Under his leadership, the Good Friday Agreement was agreed to by the Governments of Ireland and the United Kingdom and by the political parties of Northern Ireland. For his service in Northern Ireland, Senator Mitchell received numerous awards and honours. More recently, he served as US special envoy for the Middle East peace process from January 2009 to May 2011.

The purpose of today's meeting is to provide an opportunity to reflect on the peace process and, in particular, to discuss the seminal role Senator Mitchell played therein and in the genesis of the Good Friday Agreement and to look back on the 14 years since. As chairman of the talks, his patient and practical diplomacy played a defining role in facilitating the peace process. His presence will allow the committee to explore with him the role he played in the intense negotiations in the run up to the Agreement and his reflections on how the settlement has been consolidated with devolved power-sharing in Stormont.

As part of our work programme, the Joint Committee on the Implementation of the Good Friday Agreement has undertaken regular visits to Northern Ireland and the Border region and met leaders and members of the community involved in community development and peace and reconciliation work, or in work to strengthen North-South relations. For example, we recently visited Derry where we met members of the PSNI and people from different interest groups in the community and received an update on the work being done to deliver on the peace process on the ground.

The committee does not expect Senator Mitchell to express firm views on current policy issues, as he has not been directly involved in matters relating to Northern Ireland for some time. However, we greatly appreciate this opportunity to reflect on the peace process with him.

Before I invite him to make his presentation, I wish to advise him that he is protected by absolute privilege in respect of utterances at this meeting. However, if he is directed by the committee to cease making remarks on a particular matter and he continues to do so, he is entitled thereafter only to a qualified privilege in respect of his remarks. This is the standard procedure. Senator Mitchell is directed that only comments or evidence relating to the subject matter of this meeting are to be given and he is asked to respect the parliamentary practice to the effect that, where possible, he should not criticise nor make charges against a Member of either House of the Oireachtas, a person outside of the Houses or an official by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable. I invite the Senator to make his presentation.

Senator George Mitchell

I thank the Chairman, members of the committee and guests for inviting me to join them. It is an honour to participate in this meeting. I encourage members in the stated efforts that they have undertaken to support the process in the North. As members know, I have been asked to speak about my experience in Northern Ireland. I will do so briefly so as to permit the maximum amount of time for questions or comments by members.

Permit me to begin with a reference to my country. Some 225 years ago, a small group of American colonists, 45 men, gathered in Philadelphia in a constitutional convention. Their objectives were independence and self-governance, both of which they ultimately achieved. A decade earlier, the Americans had stated their case for self-governance in the Declaration of Independence. At the constitutional convention, they sought to create a framework of government in which the rights claimed in the declaration could be vindicated and safeguarded. The result was the American constitution. The first ten amendments to that constitution, what we in our country call the Bill of Rights, comprise one of the most concise and eloquent statements ever written on the right of the individual to be free from oppression by government. That is one side of the coin of liberty.

The other side is the need for everybody to have a fair chance to enjoy the blessings of liberty. The man without a job, the woman who cannot get good care or education for her children, the young people who lack the skills needed to compete in the world of technology, do not think much about liberty or justice; they worry about coping, day to day. The same is true of people living in a society torn by division, violence and fear. Without civil order and personal physical security, freedom and liberty come to be seen as mere concepts, unrelated to the daily task of survival. So it was for many years in Northern Ireland, as a deadly cycle of misery and recrimination took hold. After a half century of a cold relationship and only occasional co-operation, the British and Irish Governments concluded that if there was to be any hope of bringing the conflict to an end they would have to co-operate in a sustained effort to lay the foundation for peace.

Thus the Good Friday Agreement of 1998 traces its lineage to the Anglo-Irish Agreement of 1985 and the Downing Street Declaration of 1993. In spite of much difficulty and throughout many setbacks, the Governments persevered. For that, they deserve more credit than they have received. Tony Blair and Bertie Ahern were brilliant in bringing the process to a conclusion but they would be the first to acknowledge that their predecessors set the stage. Those predecessors, British and Irish, kept the process going in exceptionally difficult circumstances. Primary credit, of course, must go to the political leaders of Northern Ireland, the men and women who demonstrated great courage and commitment. After years of effort, the British and Irish Governments were finally able to get peace negotiations under way in June 1996. The Prime Ministers invited me to serve as independent chairman, with my two colleagues, the former Prime Minister of Finland, Harri Holkeri, and the Canadian former chief of general staff, John de Chastelain. I had been involved long enough in Northern Ireland to realise what a daunting task it was. I spent five years there, chairing three separate but related discussions. The negotiations were the longest I have ever been involved with and for most of that time no progress seemed possible. Until recently, I used to say they were the longest and most difficult negotiations but I have just returned from two and a half years in the Middle East and can now tell members something I never thought I would think or say, namely, after two and a half years of dealing with Israelis and Arabs, the Irish were really easy and friendly to deal with.

For most of the time in the North, however, there was no progress. Somehow we kept going. There was an especially bleak and dangerous time in the Christmas season of 1997, and the early months of 1998. We had been at it for a year and a half with little to show. In an effort to encourage progress, the Governments moved the negotiations to London in January and to Dublin in February but there was no progress in those locations either. On the contrary, the process appeared to be moving backwards. In mid-February 1998, on a flight from Dublin to the United States, I began to devise a plan to establish an early unbreakable deadline for an end to the talks. I was convinced that the absence of such a deadline guaranteed failure. The existence of a deadline could not guarantee success but I believed it made it possible. It took me a month to put the plan together and persuade all the participants to join. By late March they were ready and I recommended a final deadline of midnight on Thursday, 9 April 1998 for which I needed the approval of all the major parties. Any one of them could have prevented me from establishing a deadline, thereby, in my view, dooming the talks - but they all agreed. I knew then they were serious and determined. They recognised there had to be a deadline to force a decision.

As we neared the deadline, there were non-stop negotiations. Tony Blair and Bertie Ahern came to Belfast and demonstrated true leadership. With great skill and assurance, they helped to bring the negotiations to a successful conclusion. President Clinton made an important contribution as well. He stayed up all night at the White House on that final 24-hour push, telephoning me and several of the delegates at critical times in the final hours of negotiation. In a tight timeframe, a powerful focus was brought to bear and produced the right result. The very fact that getting an agreement took such extraordinary effort, however, was a clear warning signal of the difficulties that would follow. Finally, in the late afternoon of Good Friday, an agreement was reached.

It is important to recognise that although the Good Friday Agreement did not, by itself, guarantee a durable peace, political stability or reconciliation, it made them possible. There still had to be a lot of effort over a long period of time by many people to achieve those goals. For that, the political leaders of Northern Ireland again deserve great credit. In spite of many setbacks, and for over a decade, they continued the effort. There were further negotiations and several breakthroughs, one important one occurring at St. Andrew's in 2007. Today, peace prevails but there remain many issues to be resolved. The leaders and the people of Northern Ireland need our continued support. I believe they have earned it.

In recent years, I have often been asked what lessons Northern Ireland holds for other conflicts. I would now like to try to answer that question briefly, beginning with a caution. Each human being is different and unique, as is each society. It follows logically, therefore, that no two conflicts are truly identical. Northern Ireland is different from the Middle East and they are both different from Asia or Africa. Each conflict requires a unique and locally tailored response. Much as we would like it, there is no magic formula which, once discovered, can be used to end all conflicts. However, arising out of my experience in Northern Ireland, I believe there are certain principles which are universal. First, I believe there is no such thing as a conflict that cannot be ended. They are created, conducted and sustained by human beings; they can be ended by human beings. No matter how ancient or hurtful the conflict, peace can prevail.

When I arrived in Northern Ireland I found, to my dismay, a widespread feeling of pessimism among the public and, indeed, among the political leaders. As members know, it is a small well-informed society and I quickly became well known. Every day, people stopped me on the street, in the airport or in a restaurant. They always began with kind words - "Thank you, Senator, God bless you. We appreciate what you are trying to do" - but they always ended in despair - "You're wasting your time. This conflict can't be ended". I recall in particular one woman who looked like everybody's favourite grandmother. She said to me, "We've been killing each other for centuries and we're doomed to go on killing each other forever".

As best I could, I worked to reverse such attitudes. This is the special responsibility of political leaders, from whom many in the public take their cue. Leaders must lead. One way is to create an attitude of success, the belief that problems can be solved and that things can be better, not in a foolish or unrealistic way but in a way that creates hope and confidence among the people. A second need is for a clear and determined policy not to yield to violence. In July 1998, after the agreement had been reached and had been approved in a referendum, three young boys were burned to death as they slept. One month later, a devastating bomb in Omagh killed 35 people and injured over 300. These were acts of appalling ignorance and hatred. They had to be, and were, totally condemned but the people of Northern Ireland did not succumb to the temptation to retaliate. That would have given the perpetrators what they wanted, escalating sectarian violence and the end of the peace process. That means there must be an endless supply of perseverance and patience. No matter how bleak the outlook, the search for peace must continue. It takes courage, perseverance, steady nerves and strong political leadership.

Another need is so obvious that it is simple to state – a willingness to compromise. Peace and political stability cannot be achieved in divided societies unless there is a genuine willingness to understand the other side's point of view and to enter into principled compromise. That is easy to say but very hard to do. It requires of political leaders that they take risks for peace. It is an extraordinary fact of human history that, over many centuries, leaders have been willing to take the most desperate risks in war but are rarely willing to take substantial risks in and for peace. Most political leaders dislike risk-taking of any kind. Many get to be leaders by minimising or avoiding risk. To ask them in the most difficult and dangerous circumstances to be bold in the cause of peace, is asking much but it must be asked and they must respond if there is to be any hope for peace. I know it can be done because I saw it at first hand in Northern Ireland. The political leaders of Northern Ireland - ordinary men and women, some of whom had never before met or spoken and most of whom had spent their entire lives in conflict - came together in an agreement for peace. It was long and difficult but it happened. If it happened there, it can happen elsewhere.

A fourth and important principle is to recognise that the implementation of agreements is as important as reaching them and usually much more difficult. Someone once said that when we have the agreement, then the work begins. That is not inaccurate. It should be self-evident but usually getting an agreement is so difficult that the natural human tendency is to celebrate and then turn to other matters. Getting it done is more difficult than getting an agreement to do it. Perseverance and patience are necessary. It is especially important that those involved in the effort do not become complacent by the good feeling often generated by a highly publicised agreement. If the conflict is important enough to get involved in, it must be seen through all the way to a fair and successful conclusion and implementation. Peace and political stability are not too much to ask. They are, in fact, the minimal needs of a decent and caring society.

I recall my first day in Northern Ireland, 17 years ago. For the first time, I saw the huge wall that physically separates the communities in the heart of Belfast. It was 30 feet high and topped in places with barbed wire. It is a stark reminder of the intensity and duration of the conflict. Ironically, it is called the peace line. On that first morning I met with Nationalists on their side of the wall and, in the afternoon, with Unionists on their side. The messages had not been co-ordinated but I was struck by how similar the messages were. In Belfast, they told me with charts, maps, graphs and powerful testimony, there is a high correlation between unemployment and violence. They told me that where men and women have no opportunity and hope, they are more likely to take the path of violence. As I sat and listened, I thought that I could just as easily be in Chicago, Calcutta, Johannesburg or the Middle East. Despair is fuel for instability and hope is essential for peace and stability. Men and women everywhere need income to support their families and the satisfaction of doing something worthwhile and meaningful in their lives. Conflict in Northern Ireland was not exclusively or even primarily economic. It involved religion, national identity and territory. Unionists tend to identify with, want to remain part of, the United Kingdom; nationalists tend to identify with, and want to become part of, a united Ireland. The Good Friday Agreement acknowledges the legitimacy of both aspirations. It requires, however, that advocacy for either position, be exclusively by democratic and peaceful means and it commits all to the democratic principle that a change in status can occur only with the freely given consent of the people of Northern Ireland. The agreement creates the possibility that economic prosperity will flow from and contribute to lasting peace. Economic growth, the creation of jobs, opportunity for every member of society – no matter what his or her background or his or her family status or wealth – is the most important element in building strong and peaceful societies.

I am not objective because I favour the people of Northern Ireland. Having spent years with them, I have come to like and admire them. While they can be quarrelsome and often quick to take offence, they are also warm and generous, energetic and productive. Some here may recall the first day of meetings when David Ervine, a wonderful man and a powerful contributor to peace, said that if I was to be any use to them, there was one thing I had to know. I asked him what it was and he replied that in Northern Ireland they would drive 100 miles out of their way to receive an insult. I thought he was kidding but no one else in the room laughed so I took it seriously. When the agreement was reached, at 6 p.m. on the evening of 10 April 1998, we had been in negotiation for nearly two years and, continuously, for the previous few days. We were all elated and exhausted. In my parting comments to my colleagues, I told them the agreement was, for me, the realisation of a dream that has sustained me for three and a half years, the longest and most difficult years of my life. I told them I had a new dream, which was to return to Northern Ireland with my young son, Andrew, who was born during negotiations. I told them I would take my son and travel the country, taking in the sights and sounds of a beautiful land and, on a rainy afternoon, we would drive to Stormont and sit quietly in the visitors gallery in Northern Ireland Assembly. There, I hoped, we would watch and listen as the members debated the ordinary issues of life in a democratic society, such as education, health care, agriculture and tourism. There would be no talk of war for the war would long have been over. There would be no talk of peace for peace would, by then, be taken for granted. I told them that on the day peace is taken for granted in Northern Ireland I will be fulfilled and people of goodwill and people of peace everywhere will rejoice.

I spoke those words 14 years ago, and I am happy to tell members that a few weeks ago I made the journey with my son. We spent one week travelling across Northern Ireland and we sat in the visitors gallery in the Northern Ireland Assembly. The only difference is that, for one week, it did not rain, which I found extraordinary given all the time I spent in Northern Ireland. As we sat in the gallery listening to the Northern Ireland Assembly debate, we heard a calm, peaceful and democratic debate. We heard a Minister report to the Assembly on a conference he had just attended. His report was as dry as dust and as boring as only a government report can be, but it was music to my ears and I thought it wonderful to hear. It made that day truly one of the best days of my life.

I will be glad to respond to any questions or to hear any comments committee members would like to make.

I thank Senator Mitchell for his contribution to this committee and for his contribution to the peace process. I will call on members to contribute in the order in which they indicated their interest in asking a question. However, as I know Senator McAleese must leave shortly, I will call on him first.

We are privileged and grateful to have Senator Mitchell here today. I acknowledge again that Senator Mitchell's determination, patience and commitment to the peace process has been very important in getting us to the point we are at today.

I had a question in mind, but the Senator has just answered it. It was a simple question about transferability. People are naive and think there is a toolbox that one can pack up in one conflict situation, take it to another, open it and take out the tools and apply them. That is not the case as we know. What I was interested in knowing was what value the Senator took from the Northern Ireland peace process in terms of addressing the conflict in the Middle East. He has addressed that most eloquently and I thank him for that. During the course of the year he spent in Northern Ireland, what moment did Senator Mitchell find most difficult? Was there a moment when he felt things would not work and he felt like walking away? Will he comment on how he sees the situation progressing over the next ten years? Is the peace process under threat from anything? How does Senator Mitchell envisage it looking back after this decade of sensitive centenaries?

Senator George Mitchell

I will answer the second question first. We must all recognise the limitations on the human ability to predict future events. We have seen over and over again, in every part of the world, extraordinary unforeseen and unforeseeable events that have changed the nature of societies and the course of human history. Therefore, we must all be cautious and humble about suggesting what may or may not occur in the future. However, I believe, based on spending a lot of time in Northern Ireland - I was for ten years the Chairman of Queens University Belfast and I returned there often - that while Northern Ireland society remains divided in many respects, there is an almost universal desire not to return to the troubled times of the past and there is almost universal recognition that whatever differences exist can be resolved and composed through the democratic process that now exists there. That is a tribute to the people and their dissatisfaction with what they went through, but also to the political leaders in Northern Ireland. I have emphasised that in my comments because in all societies today, particularly the democratic societies of the west - specifically my country - there is a tendency to denigrate, demean, insult and hold political leaders in low regard. Surely all of us have done enough to earn some criticism, but men and women rise to the occasion when challenged and that was the case in Northern Ireland.

In other parts of the world, I cite Northern Ireland not so much for the specifics of the disagreement, but for the extent to which courageous political leaders can make a difference and can alter events. Harry Truman was a famous American President known for his blunt speaking. He was once asked how he responded to one of the principal tenets of communism which held that there are inexorable forces of history which shape events rather than the actions of individual men and women. His response was pungent. He said: "Men make history, not the other way around." If he was saying that today, he would say "men and women", but he said it 70 years ago. I believe that to be the case and believe political leaders do make a difference. The absence of political leadership is the most striking element in many of the conflict situations around the world.

I conclude by emphasising a point I made earlier about the importance of opportunity for every member of society. People who do not have hope, opportunity or who see no role for themselves or their loved ones in a society tend to fall quickly into despair and become easy prey for the wrong course. We must give people a chance and that is possible. If people have opportunity and a fair chance to succeed, their aspirations can be more easily realised and the seeds of conflict not planted.

I now call on Dr. Alasdair McDonnell, leader of the SDLP.

Dr. Alasdair McDonnell, MP, MLA

I echo the comments of Senator McAleese on how great a privilege it is to have Senator Mitchell with us today. It has been a personal privilege to have known Senator Mitchell and to have observed some of the superhuman efforts he made to get us up off our knees in the North over the past 17 years. The people, not just in the North, but throughout all of this island, will be eternally grateful to the Senator and those behind him, such as former President Clinton and an array of others, who supported him and helped drive the peace process forward for us.

My question is simple, but the answer may be complicated. How would Senator Mitchell see us bringing the current processes to some degree of conclusion or completeness? One of the frustrations of all of us involved in the process is that we do not seem to get to reap the full benefits of all that was done and of what the Senator helped us to achieve. I do not lay blame anywhere, but agree with the point Senator Mitchell made that getting the agreement was only the end of the beginning rather than the beginning of the end. Far too many people saw it as the end. I was in the United States a few weeks ago and people there think everything is complete and the issues are solved - that Northern Ireland was bundled up and George Mitchell sorted it out 20 years ago. How do we consummate the peace we have and bring the process to a conclusion? It seems to be more difficult to get the fruits of the process, because we still have economic difficulties and inefficiencies and still cannot get the trust and cohesion we want. Perhaps this is too tall a question.

Senator George Mitchell

I thank Dr. McDonnell for his kind comments. It is a pleasure to see him again. I repeat again how important growth and opportunity are as a lubricant to the ills of all societies and they must continue to be available. Bringing a process to a conclusion is truly a difficult dilemma in resolving all conflict situations. In my experience, beginning with my six years as Leader of the United States Senate, I can say that there are vast numbers of people around the world who regard an agreement as the beginning point of discussion and who, once having agreed to something, then use it as a bargaining chip as to its implementation. This is not unique to any society or any conflict, but a reality of human nature and behaviour and requires extraordinary perseverance and patience in pursuing goals - once agreed upon - to bring them to a final conclusion.

I do not have a specific magic formula. I am generally aware of the issues which remain to be resolved and what is occurring. All I can advise is that the same degree of diligence and effort that led first to the reaching of the agreement, led then to implementations of major provisions, must continue and be applied to the remaining issues. It is fair to say that, as in any society, there will never be an end to issues or problems or disagreements. Human life is dynamic, as is the life of all human societies and so the solution to every problem invariably contains within it the seeds of the next generation's problems. I do not think the committee should despair nor do I think it should be perceived that the problems that exist here are unique to here. This is a universal problem.

One of my most difficult tasks as majority leader of the Senate was to get people to do what they had agreed to do, no matter how often I reminded them of their promise and commitment. It is down to nothing more than perseverance, patience and a willingness of people to acknowledge that the best interests of the society come before the best interests of any individual or group in society.

I thank Senator Mitchell for his presentation to the committee which has been a very impressive contribution. I am very impressed that he referred to the American Bill of Rights on the subject of the importance of opportunity and the right of an individual to justice and liberty and said that governments must legislate for the common good. It is only by means of legislating for the common good that individuals can achieve that justice and liberty and opportunity.

Senator Mitchell said these problems are not unique to Ireland and I agree. In many current conflicts throughout the world there is a lack of trust in political leadership and in many instances a lack of political leadership, there is the subjugation of people to the will of a dominant force and the lack of economic justice. The consequences of a lack of economic justice means there is not an educational system capable of developing the gifts and talents of every child. A proper education results in a level of tolerance and understanding and provides the skills to resolve difficulties by means of dialogue and acceptance of opponents as equals.

I wish to ask Senator Mitchell about the situation in the Middle East. This is the era of the Arab spring and there is much brutality associated with it. We are receiving our information from two differing points of view. Senator Mitchell has been there. Is he aware of any mechanism that might bring about a situation where that level of tolerance and understanding and that commitment to diversity and a resolution could exist? Does he see any light at the end of the tunnel in this regard?

I thank Senator Mitchell for his role in the conflict resolution process in our country and the difficulties associated with it. I have been part of that conflict. There were times when many of us were in despair and we could not see any possible immediate resolution in the short or medium term. It took courageous people at a certain time in history to possess that tolerance and that understanding to realise the only way it could be resolved was through mutual negotiation and talks.

Senator George Mitchell

I thank Deputy Ferris very much for his comments. I spoke yesterday at an institute here in Dublin and I described in detail the situation in the Middle East. Time does not permit the full extent of an answer that really is necessary because it is an extraordinarily complex situation but I will try to summarise it briefly. I ask his forgiveness in advance if I do not touch on some aspect of the situation which he or others regard as important; it is simply because it is so detailed.

I spent a lot of time in the Middle East. I had two assignments there and I reported to three Presidents on the situation. I acknowledge that in the latest effort we were unable to obtain an agreement although we were able to get the parties to briefly begin direct negotiations. I remain optimistic, not in the immediate future, but perhaps after some period of time, for the following reason. While it will be very politically painful for the leadership in both societies to reach an agreement, because it will require significant compromise and flexibility to which substantial portions of each society will object, nonetheless, I believe, and have conveyed personally to the highest political leadership in both societies, that the risks of not getting agreement pose a much higher danger to both societies. Their national self-interest very much lies in a resolution to this conflict and the longer they put it off, the more difficult it becomes and the higher the risks become to their societies.

This is a summary because it would take me much more time than is available. I will mention a couple of points. Israel is now in an overwhelmingly dominant military and economic position vis-à-vis the Palestinians and the Arab societies as a whole. There is a lull which has created a sense of comfort and complacency which, in my judgment, if history is any guide, will not last. There could be a further eruption of violence which could take directions that are not foreseeable or predictable for the reason that in a very small area there is the intersection of several conflicts such as the Persian-Arab conflict, an historic conflict which is now at a high level of intensity, the Sunni-Shia conflict which has existed for the 13 centuries since Islam was founded and which has been recurring and ebbing in an accordion-like fashion and is now also at a high pitch. There has been unprecedented turmoil throughout the region, most notably in Egypt and Syria and with the possibility of spreading to other places and there is the conflict between Israel and Palestine. Jerusalem is a very intense flashpoint. Any eruption in any one of these areas could quickly spread to all of the others and lead to a regional conflict that has not occurred for a very long time and with devastating results for all concerned. This is my first point.

The Israelis face many serious problems, notwithstanding the current lull. Demographics is the first problem. In a very short time, the number of Arabs living in the area between the Jordan and the Mediterranean will exceed the number of Jews. If the two-state solution is lost, the people of Israel will have to make a fateful and extraordinarily difficult choice to choose between being a democratic state or a Jewish state. Once the two-state solution is lost, it cannot be both. This is not much discussed in the West and not at all in the United States but in Israel itself it is a subject of discussion, especially led by Ehud Barak, the former Prime Minister, now the defence Minister, who described that as an awful choice which Israel should never have to make.

The second problem is technology. Israel has won every major war and it built a large wall around the country to prevent suicide bombings, both of which have ensured its military supremacy. However, the real threat now comes from neither of those; it comes from rockets against which the wall is of no use. Hamas has 8,000 on Israel's southern border, Hezbollah has from 30,000 to 50,000 on its northern border, all limited in range, accuracy and destructive power but creating fear and anxiety, and both are upgrading so it is a matter of time until they have more and better rockets. Most dangerously of all, Iran now has crossed a major technological threshold in gaining the capacity to construct solid fuel rockets as opposed to liquid fuel rockets, the technicalities of which I will not go into but it is a big advance, and that means it can now reach Israel with rockets launched in Iran. I am not talking about nuclear weapons but about conventional weapons. Israel is constructing and deploying a huge anti-missile system and the United States is funding a large part of it, consistent with our commitment to Israel and its security, which is firm and unshakeable. It has never occurred in human history that in all-out conflict in which tens of thousands of rockets were launched simultaneously against an anti-missile system one can guarantee what the outcome will be. There is not a person on earth who can guarantee that. Therefore, it is a dangerous situation for Israel.

The Palestinians face the risk of another 60 years or more of occupation under which they do not have the right to self-governance and the dignity that comes with it. In 1947 the United Nations proposed a partition. The UN said 55% of land was to go to Israel, 45% was to go the Arabs and that Jerusalem was to be an independent international city. Israel accepted it, the Arabs rejected it and invaded Israel and the first of many wars began, all of which were won by an increasingly strong Israel. There is not an Arab leader today who would not gladly accept the offer of 1947 that their predecessors rejected if it was still available but it is not and never again will be because the circumstances are so dramatically changed, and they have rejected each of the offers since then. I told Chairman Arafat directly, and I told President Abbas directly the same thing, that there is no evidence whatsoever to suggest that the offers will get any better in the future. To the contrary, all the evidence is that they will get worse and so at some point they will have to get into negotiation and negotiate an agreement to get a state, even though it will be less than 100% of what they want and even though, from their perspective, it will not be fair, and then build on that state. There is no alternative to it. That is the way it has to be done. If they do that, they will have the strong support of the United States, European nations and many others who want a secure peaceful Israel and a viable independent and peaceful Palestine. It can happen and I hope and pray that it will in the near enough future.

Michelle Gildernew, one the MPs in Northern Ireland and a member of the Sinn Féin Party, has a question.

Ms Michelle Gildernew

Senator Mitchell, fáilte romhat. It is great to see the Senator here. I add my voice of thanks to that of many others around this room today for his contribution to the peace process. Obviously, the Good Friday Agreement came about because of the people's need to see a good quality of life and peace and prosperity. I enjoyed the Senator's contribution and was privileged to be here to listen to him speak, and was struck that at the beginning of it he talked about independence and self-governance. I am in my fourth term as an MLA for Fermanagh-South Tyrone and we had a debate in the Assembly on Tuesday on the rise in fuel prices during which I was struck by the lack of desire for independence and self-governance among those on the Unionist benches to make decisions such as that on behalf of our people, and the lack of commitment to extend matters which are devolved, to extend fiscal powers, etc., and to move further. Does the Senator envisage an opportunity for further change being delivered by persuading Unionists of the merit of unification, of the merit of that independence and self-governance, by demonstrating that it will deliver greater economic growth and jobs while also enhancing their democratic representation? At times it is very frustrating to be there with the limitation on the powers we have and the lack of a desire from the other side to increase that and hopefully end up with proper independence and self-governance.

Senator George Mitchell

I do not wish to become directly involved in the disagreeing points of respective sides on the issue of independence or self-governance. What we sought to do in the Agreement was to create the conditions in which: first, there would be an end to conflict; second, there would be a legitimacy for both aspirations as expressed by both sides, to which I referred in my comments; third, to commit everyone to the principle of democratic and peaceful means in advocacy for those aspirations; and, finally, any ultimate decision on the change of status would be made by the people themselves. I felt, along with my two colleagues, in trying to help draft the Agreement that this captured the essence of what was agreed largely by both sides, that is to say, both sides would agree on that much, although there were many areas on which they did not agree, which we had to put off for further resolution, and it did not prejudge their determination on those issues. My own view is that the right of self-determination is fundamental to human liberty and freedom and its full exercise is necessary for any people to have their dignity. That does not mean that people would exercise their right to self-determination in a manner that is consistent with my personal beliefs, Ms Gildernew's or anyone else's but they do have the right to express it in the manner that they feel best for them.

In economic terms, that is a very powerful argument and usually economic considerations are dominant factors in decisions made by the public. I can tell Ms Gildernew, on an unrelated matter, that we are now entering a huge and important campaign in the United States and the economic considerations will be by far the overwhelming dominant factor in a decision that people make. It is historically the case in our country, and I think in most countries, that a good deal of debate and discussion occurs on other issues but when one gets right down to it what interests people most is the economic circumstances and, in particular, their conditions, opportunities and prospects.

Deputy Regina Doherty, one of the Fine Gael Deputies, would like to ask a question.

I am deeply humbled to even be in the Senator's presence today. I have only been a Member for just more than a year. It is humbling to meet such an amazing person who has had such a huge and significant impact on not only the lives of Irish people but around the world. When I was in school, we learned about great political leaders and influencers such as Michael Collins, Pádraig Pearse and others. My children in years to come will learn about the huge work the Senator has done and the gift in which he has participated in giving to the Irish people. I wish to say "Thank you".

I intended asking the Senator the question that Deputy Martin Ferris asked him about his optimism about the Middle East but he has answered it. Therefore, can I ask him a semi-personal question? Given the significant negotiation processes he has been involved in over many years and continues to be involved in, has it changed him as a person? Has it reinforced his belief in humans and in their dignity or has it caused him to question what it is that we do to each other in the name of democracy? How has it influenced and affected him?

Senator George Mitchell

Depending upon the moment and the conflict, it has done both. I have to tell the Deputy that for a very long time in Northern Ireland I was very discouraged. Some here lived through it, and we remember the first month. We did not have a set of rules to begin with. I thought it would take a day or two but it took three months before we adopted what was a simple set of rules on how to proceed. As Majority Leader of the Senate I thought I had learned all there was to know about delay and how to throw sand in the gears but boy I learned a lot in Northern Ireland about how to really throw sand in the gears when one wants to stop something. It was very frustrating. However, in the end it was extremely rewarding and heartwarming and it led me to believe ordinary people can rise to extraordinary heights when they recognise a challenge and understand the tremendous benefits that can flow from it.

It is difficult now looking back over the past 14 years to get in mind the uncertainty that existed at the time the agreement was reached. There was much anxiety and concern. Nobody knew for sure what was going to happen. Political careers were placed at risk - and some were ended - by very courageous men who put their country and society above their personal and political interests. Overall I would say it is one of optimism and hope but I cannot say it has been universal.

I want to be careful about how I phrase my next point. Not everyone can be persuaded. I ran for office, like all of the politicians here, and we would all like to get every vote. I know I tried very hard to get every vote when I ran. However, the fact is in any society, even one as small and homogenous as this one, there is enough disagreement that one must accept one must compromise to move along and get one's way. It does require some degree of personal humility and willingness to accept at least the possibility that an opponent may occasionally be right and may have a good idea, notwithstanding his or her otherwise dismal record and comments.

I thank Senator Mitchell and it is a pleasure to meet him. He and others in this room participated in the process but I am just a student of it, perhaps not a very good one. Recently I headed an Irish delegation to the Parliamentary Assembly of the OSCE in Vienna where we met Armenian and Azerbaijani delegations to discuss the conflict in Nagorno-Karabakh. At the end of our meetings on the first day I was exhausted, thinking it was an impossible task. My question is on mediation. Given that the story here is unique, what is transferable to other conflict areas? How important is the role of the mediator, that is the actual person involved? Much literature I have read about the agreement and the process placed much weight on Senator Mitchell's shoulders and the role he played.

Senator George Mitchell

The role can be crucial. In many conflict situations the parties have no history of direct communication. This certainly was the case in Northern Ireland where to an extraordinary degree I was surprised by the extent to which men and women had never before spoken directly. They had spoken indirectly criticising each other across the airwaves and in the media. As a result, and I do not want to overstate this, they had been captives of the narrative of their society. I recall when President Clinton first came to Northern Ireland I arranged for him to meet the various party leaders. It was extraordinary. All of the party leaders were articulate and extremely effective orators and all depicted or described the history of Northern Ireland as seen through the eyes of their community. It was extremely striking to hear one after another as it was basically a recitation of the grievances of that community without even a hint of recognition that the other side might have any grievances at all. It was like reading only the left-hand pages of a history book whereby one gets only one narrative but not the other. I do not think one of them said a single thing that was not true but the overall impression was untrue because it avoided entirely any mention of a competing point of view.

We all grow up this way and we now read much about science and we understand more and more the way human beings function. Having spent most of my adult life in politics I believe the receptors in our brains that receive information consistent with our prior views are bigger than those receiving information inconsistent with our prior beliefs. Therefore, we all have this disposition. We must fight hard to try to understand or even listen to another person's point of view. Some of our colleagues will remember when I became chairman the moment I sat down, in the middle of the night after a long stormy debate about my fitness for the role, two political parties walked out. I was astonished until I was informed the dramatic walkout is standard process in Northern Ireland. One states one's case, one throws down one's papers and one walks out before the other side has a chance to respond. Therefore, one never gets to hear the other point of view. It was about just getting them to stay in the room to be polite and listen. There was a Northern Ireland women's party and there was much gender-based hostility with regard to even listening to women and having them participate in the process.

The role of a mediator can be to try to establish a context in which reasonable discussion can occur. One of the most important things I think I did in Northern Ireland, and it was inadvertent and not intentional at the time, was on the very first day to say to the delegates that I am a product of the United States Senate where there exists the rule of unlimited debate. I told them I had listened to 16 hour speeches and many speeches of eight or ten hours so I could take anything they could throw at me. I told them there would be much I would do of which they would be critical but nobody would be able to say they were not listened to because I would listen to anything anyone had to say, and I did so. On many occasions afterwards I regretted that statement as I sat and listened for ever and ever but people had their say and it made a difference. They felt someone actually listened to them whereas previously nobody from the other side would ever have listened to them or have given them any attention.

Skilful mediation involves to a very significant degree creating a context in which reasonable discussion can take place. I emphasise this is a matter of timing. One cannot force it on people. If on the first day I had insisted everybody had to sit and listen to everybody else we would not have got anywhere. It took a long time and much patience and perseverance. Gradually people listened, came to understand and recognised the need for accommodation. In the end the agreement at least attempted to enable everybody to say they had prevailed in obtaining a principal objective even if it meant the other side also obtained a principal objective. Making someone feel like a loser is an almost certain way to fail in a mediation. The objective must be that everyone feels that he or she prevailed in some respect. Members of the joint committee are all politicians and know very well that if they enter an important negotiation, they will not return home waving a piece of paper and saying "Re-elect me, I have just lost; I did not prevail in this negotiation and sacrificed your interests". They must be able to tell their constituents they succeeded and gained and that society benefits as a whole. This probably is the most important aspect of external mediation when parties do not have a history of direct communication or even worse, have had a history of direct but adverse and failed communication.

Mr. Pat Doherty, MP, MLA

I welcome Senator Mitchell and thank him for his attendance. I echo comments made by other colleagues that it is a privilege for the joint committee to have him in attendance today. A number of years ago, I read a book on the second president of the United States, John Adams, who succeeded George Washington. When he was asked about American independence and the revolutionary wars against the British, he stated the American people already had made up their minds that they wanted independence and that what they did during those wars and in the course of George Washington's struggle was to give format to that. Likewise, I believe the Irish people have made up their minds that they sought justice, peace and the reunification of their country. Senator Mitchell's great work gave us the Good Friday Agreement and a roadmap, based on democracy and peaceful means, to achieve that end. This has been the great advance made in Ireland, which was approved in the referendums held both North and South after the Good Friday Agreement, which the people supported in huge numbers.

Senator Mitchell touched on the question of implementation in his introductory remarks and while Members tend to refer to this committee as the Good Friday Agreement committee, its full name is the Joint Committee on the Implementation of the Good Friday Agreement. I ask Senator Mitchell to elaborate further on the question of implementation because previously, when entering into negotiations, Sinn Féin had some dialogue with the African National Congress, which strongly advised us that implementation was an absolute must in the follow-up to any agreement. Consequently, I would appreciate further elaboration in this regard from Senator Mitchell.

Senator George Mitchell

I will do that and I thank Mr. Pat Doherty, MP, MLA for his comments. In a way, it can be more difficult because as he will recall, once I established the deadline in the North, there was a huge focus and concentration whereby just outside the gate of the building in Stormont in which we were located, a media colony grew up. There were temporary structures in which hundreds of media people gathered and which, like a magnifying glass concentrating the powers of the sun, created a tremendous focus and a pressure on people to perform. All of that is gone when one gets around to implementation and it is much easier for people to delay and to procrastinate. Moreover, it is much harder to bring focus to bear repeatedly on each issue and in a certain sense, it is harder to make progress on such things in the absence of being able to create a sharply focused circumstance. The kind of delay that would not have been possible when we had an absolute deadline of midnight on Thursday makes it more difficult, which means it requires even more perseverance and patience. In addition, hopefully it requires a duty on the part of the media, which tend to focus on controversy and difficulties, to try to give their attention to the kinds of issues that are required to obtain the full benefits of the initial agreement itself. The initial agreement was a compromise by human beings, imperfect but representing the best that could be accomplished at that time. It left to future political leaders, not just those present but those who would come along the future, to carry it through to fruition.

All I can say is it requires a maintenance of effort and perseverance, as well as a drive to realise the full benefits of what was anticipated at the time the agreement was reached in what obviously is a more difficult circumstance. The more satisfied people become, the less attention they pay, which constitutes another difficulty. If people think it is all over and the battle has been fought and won, then trying to get them to refocus on the issue is even more difficult. However, that does not diminish from the importance of getting full implementation. To me, the best argument is that one cannot be satisfied without it because one then does not realise the full promise of what has been agreed and one increases the risk, whatever it might be, of regression, which is something of course that practically no one seeks.

Deputy Brendan Smith, who is a Fianna Fáil Deputy, wishes to ask a question.

I join with other Members in complimenting Senator Mitchell on his outstanding work for our country and elsewhere and thank him for his inspiring words this morning. I represent the constituency of Cavan-Monaghan, which are two of the counties in Ulster immediately south of the Border. We had the privilege of a visit from Senator Mitchell in late 1999 or early 2000 when he officiated at the formal putting in place of beams for a new bridge that was named the Senator George Mitchell Peace Bridge. For 30 years, the main arterial route from Dublin through counties Meath and Cavan leading to counties Fermanagh and South Donegal was cut off because the Brits had blown up the bridge outside Belturbet, County Cavan. As a result of the progress in the peace process, Cavan and Fermanagh councils thankfully were able to put in place the aforementioned new bridge, which is dedicated to Senator Mitchell's work. It is an important piece of infrastructure and both in Cavan and in the part of County Fermanagh from which Ms Michelle Gildernew, MP, MLA comes , it commonly is known as the Mitchell bridge. Consequently, the memory of Senator Mitchell's work is very much alive in my constituency and that immediate area.

Senator Mitchell spoke about the need for opportunities for every member of society, while Dr. Alasdair McDonnell, MP, MLA and others spoke of the importance of implementing the process and how there would be benefits for everyone in so doing. Everyone is conscious of the importance of employment but unfortunately, jobs are not as readily available as one would wish. To Senator Mitchell's knowledge, where there has been conflict resolution, are there any areas in which particular interventions were made, perhaps through education, to upskill people, particularly in the more disadvantaged areas, to prepare people in those communities for the limited job opportunities that might exist in whatever jurisdiction they lived? Everyone present is aware of the dangers of people being left idle and of communities in which parents do not go to work. One can often underestimate the importance of education as a follow-on and as a highly important investment in society and in human beings, to try to prepare such people for job opportunities in order that they can reach their potential and contribute to society.

Senator George Mitchell

In the Deputy's latter comments, he has highlighted one of the critical weaknesses in many of the conflict resolution efforts that have occurred, that is, the adjustment to a shifting of the international spotlight away once the fighting ends, as well as the great difficulty of adjusting in the absence of international attention and support. It simply is a sad reality of human nature that controversy is news, while its absence is not. One of the real dangers is precisely that mentioned, namely, once the fighting stops the level of effort necessary to lay the foundation for a successful society through good universal education and care is even greater. This is a big controversy in my country.

Science provides us with much information on the human body and mind. It is clear that what occurs during the first few years in the life of any human being can have a decisive physical and physiological effect on a person's capacity to learn and grow throughout his or her lifetime. A child could be taught by the best teacher in the very best school but if under-nourished, uncared for and lacking in stimulation will not benefit from that great education. This is one of the most critical problems.

I said directly to the Palestinian leadership that they had gotten used to a great deal of public attention in that they had only to call a press conference and the press came running but that once Palestine got its state the press would not come running but would be off covering another conflict somewhere else. I told them that they should be building for that day and creating the foundation of a strong economy that will enable them to survive when not alone the attention but the money in terms of the international donations which sustain the Palestinian people and others in conflict situations, stops flowing. I agree completely with what has been said in terms of the importance of that aspect of education and preparation. In my judgment, this has, in the cases with which I am familiar, been lacking and needs to be the focus of attention.

I would like to comment on the kind remarks in respect of the bridge dedication. I have a son who is 14 years old and a daughter who is 11 years old, both of whom were born during the time I was working here. I have told them about the bridge and the dedication. In their minds, they pictured the San Francisco Oakland Bay Bridge and George Washington Bridge over the Hudson River. When in Northern Ireland approximately one month ago, I went with my son to see the bridge but had passed it by some 500 yards before I realised. Members will be aware it is a single span bridge. I should not say I was disappointed. When asked to lay the span for the bridge, I thought I would be laying the first span of it but when I got into the tractor which was to lay the span I realised the river is only about as wide as my living room.

That is the Border.

Senator George Mitchell

Nonetheless, I was happy to see it. Members will be aware that there is a peace monument a couple of hundred yards down the road from where one drives into the Republic. The driver thought that was what we were looking for but when we saw no evidence there of the dedication we returned to the bridge and found the plaque embedded in the middle of it. My son has asked that I pass on to you that people do not stop in the middle of a bridge and as such it should be replicated in a place where people can stop to look at it.

Dr. Alasdair McDonnell, MP, MLA

We need a new bridge across the River Liffey.

It shows that little divides us in Ireland.

Senator George Mitchell

Two of the nicest days I spent here were the day I laid the span, following which there was a nice ceremony at the Slieve Russell Hotel, which I very much enjoyed, and the day I took my 14 year old son over the bridge. Some amazing development has occurred. Deputy Smith will recall, as he is from that area, that when I laid the span of the bridge there was nothing in the area. The highway and surrounding environment is a testimony to what has occurred. I appreciate and thank the Deputy for raising the issue.

Mr. Paul Maskey, MP, MLA

Senator Mitchell referred earlier to a quote by Mr. David Ervine with regard to travelling 100 miles to be offended. I drove 100 miles this morning although not to be offended but to listen to his words of wisdom, for which I thank him.

I have had the pleasure of visiting the Basque country on many occasions, where there is currently a ceasefire. While this is to be welcomed, an issue remains in regard to the Basque population gaining its independence from Spain and France. Prior to Christmas there was a mass demonstration in the Basque region which was attended by more than 100,000, the images of which were powerful for such a small country, who were calling for justice for the people and in respect of prisoners rights and the release of prisoners. Many families have to travel thousands of kilometres every week to visit their loved ones in prison. The Spanish Government has not engaged in any real dialogue with the Basque people or Government. Does Senator Mitchell have any words of wisdom for the Basque, Spanish and French people? While as stated by him, every conflict throughout the world is unique, the conflict in the Basque region is not dissimilar to the conflict which took place in Ireland over many generations.

Senator George Mitchell

I will be limited in my remarks. I was approached on more than one occasion and asked to get involved in the process in the Basque country but declined because among other things it was incompatible with my going to the Middle East at that time. I cannot make a statement based on detailed knowledge of the situation. I met on a couple of occasions with representatives of both sides and as such have a general familiarity with the issue but not sufficient for me to express any meaningful opinion. Anything I might say publicly would not be based on the type of knowledge one should have before commenting on such situations. However, I hope very much that the two sides can resolve the situation.

Mr. Maskey will be aware as he has more intimate knowledge of the situation that the issue of regional autonomy in Spain is an old one, one not limited to the Basque region. Catalonia has a long history of contact with the national Government regarding issues of autonomy. As I mentioned earlier, they are unique to that circumstance. I think it best that I do not express a view beyond that except to say that I was asked a couple of months ago to add my name to a statement issued by a group of former leaders who had somewhat more direct involvement than I had and I agreed to do so in an effort, as explained to me, to encourage both sides to try to reach an agreement. Beyond that, I probably would not go at this time.

I welcome Senator Mitchell here today. It is a great privilege to have an opportunity to meet him. It is clear that the qualities which Senator Mitchell possesses played a part in his facilitating the peace process. The role of the mediator in moving talks forward was mentioned earlier. It is clear that Senator Mitchell, who started out in Maine as a humble lawyer, following which he made his way to the US Senate, of which he became majority leader, has the required qualities to bring such matters to fruition.

There are people in Ireland who are against the concept of greater globalisation, free trade and greater links with the EU. I note that Senator Mitchell, when leader of the majority in the Senate, was an architect of the American Free Trade Agreement and the WTO. Senator Mitchell referred earlier to the link between unemployment and violence, lack of hope and violence and lack of opportunity and violence. Greater globalisation and more free trade gives people hope and the opportunity to improve themselves and their lives. Based on his history in the US Senate, what are Senator Mitchell's views on that in the context of greater links between Ireland and the EU and greater globalisation and how that can foster peace and hope?

Senator George Mitchell

I would be glad to respond but I want to state at the outset that I do not feel it is appropriate for me to attempt to intervene or get involved in the domestic or other affairs of other countries. What I will do is respond and describe what happened in my country and in my case. Whether that is applicable or helpful to others is a judgment others have to make.

I was the Senate majority leader when the Senate took up the ratification of the World Trade Organisation and the North American Free Trade Agreement. Both were very controversial items. They were particularly controversial in my position as the majority leader because I am Democrat and I, therefore, served a dual role as the leader of my party in the Senate but also as the majority leader, the manager overall of the operations of the Senate. On that issue, my party was divided, although neither party had unanimity on the issue. There was support and opposition within both parties. I think it is fair to say that the most intense opposition came from within the Democratic Party and so it was a difficult task in both instances.

I had had very strong support from organised labour in the United States which was particularly opposed to it and so I had many direct confrontations with people who had supported me but who were opposed to my position on this issue, something which all members go through in their political lives. This was on a magnified scale, in particular in terms of the creation of the World Trade Organisation agreement.

If one looks back over time and over American history, the two major parties have regularly shifted their positions on the issue. Like ships crossing in the night, on a variety of major issues, parties tend to be in opposition. When one side takes a position, the other side takes the opposite one and 20 years or 30 years later, their positions are the reverse. That surely is the case in respect of the issue which has come to be known as free trade.

It was very important to me to address the issue outside of a directly or limited political context and to look at the substance of the issues as opposed to their political lineage - who might have suggested or who might not have suggested it. On balance, I felt that the United States and the American people would benefit from greater trade both in terms of access by our people to products produced elsewhere and the ability of American manufacturers, producers and service providers to market their goods around the world and that while there would be, and have been, many instances of individuals, communities and regions that have suffered as a result, the overall benefit to the society justified proceeding with trade, provided there could be some substantial protections to make certain there was some remediation for those who were most injured. Just as the benefits would be widely distributed, the harm should not be localised and it too should be absorbed throughout the country.

I had a particularly dramatic confrontation. My mother was an immigrant to the United States. She was 18 years of age when she arrived, could not speak a word of English and could not read or write but the demand for immigrant labour in textile mills was so great that she got a job in a textile mill the day she arrived and she spent her entire life there. When we got to the World Trade Organisation agreement, those who opposed my position brought an elderly gentleman who had worked with my mother, who was deceased, to a large publicised meeting. He informed me that if my mother was still alive, she would be ashamed of me and of my position as a way to persuade and embarrass me. It certainly embarrassed me, although it did not persuade me.

The argument that I made was a simple one. In a dynamic free economy, there is inevitably some dislocation but the vast majority of it is caused not by trade agreements but by innovation. There once was in the New England states - I grew up in Maine, one of the New England states - a thriving industry in the manufacture of stage coaches in which many people were employed. There is now not a single American employed in the manufacture of stage coaches. Those communities, the people who were so employed, were hurt when the automobile came along but no sensible person could argue that society as a whole is worse off because we have automobiles and not horse drawn stage coaches even though, unfortunately, they make automobiles in places other than New England. That is the way one has to look at it.

One cannot stifle innovation. It is crucial to advance in any modern society even if it means that new products will come along that displace others and that it means some dislocation. My feeling is that there must be protections because one cannot have unrestricted trade just as one cannot have raw and unrestricted capitalism. We have all kinds of mechanisms or restraints. We, in the United States, have the Securities and Exchange Commission which regulates trading and we have laws and rules governing trade to make certain that the economic competition is within fair and recognised boundaries that operate to the larger public good. The same is true with respect to trade. However, difficult as it can be and while it will undoubtedly produce demonstrable examples of people who have been injured and hurt, the challenge to society is not to stifle the competition but to make remediation for the hurt in terms of education and other training as opposed to trying to prevent the trade from occurring.

There is a vote in the Seanad so some of the Senators have to leave. The Senators could possibly ask Senator Mitchell questions over lunch.

I have one question. I compliment Senator Mitchell on a wonderful, genuine and informative contribution. As he is aware, we have a decade of commemorations coming up that will celebrate many events in history which are of importance to both sides of the political divide. We hope that will bring a greater understanding of both traditions but we are cognisant of the fact that there are people who may use these events to sow further divisions. How important does Senator Mitchell believe these celebrations will be in creating greater respect and understanding?

Senator George Mitchell

I think they are important and that it is a mistake to try to forget history or to suppress it or to ask people to forget what happened in their lives. Open recognition and pride in one's history is important, as is open and direct recognition of injury done. It can be a profound error to try to repress bad memories or bad events or to see everything in a continuing conflict circumstance.

We can all be proud of our heritages and of our histories however different they may be. The important thing is that it is all done in an open and direct manner and is not used as a mechanism for demonising or denigrating someone who has a contrary point of view. Most important is that one should never forget that a lot of people suffered a lot of hurt in Northern Ireland specifically and in every conflict situation. It is unjust and unfair to them to try to minimise that hurt or to suggest that somehow it must be overlooked. One must make allowance for grievance and loss while constantly pointing out that the best way to remember those who suffered loss is to ensure that it does not happen to others.

Senator Cummins is the Leader of the Seanad and I thank him for attending.

Like other speakers, I welcome Senator Mitchell. His positive message is refreshing, particularly his statement that there is not any conflict that cannot be ended. Had he told me that 30 years ago, I would have had a different opinion because I did not see any light at the end of the tunnel. In the 1970s, I asked young students from Africa, some of whom were involved in the South West Africa People's Organisation, SWAPO, the Africa National Congress, ANC, and other organisations, whether they believed the situation in their country would ever be resolved.

Senator Mitchell's belief in people's humanity and ability to adapt and change is striking. Consider conflicts across the world, for example, in Chechnya, the Middle East, parts of Africa and South America. We should get the message across to the people involved that hope is essential. Where areas have moved beyond conflict, how important is it that the message of ex-combatants or the people involved in negotiations be heard?

Is there a role for people involved in the Irish situation? For example, Martin McGuinness was involved in the situation in Singapore and Baghdad and Deputy Adams tried to give leadership in the Basque situation. They did not do this to make comparisons, but to highlight the tiny steps that we took, the importance of providing space for dialogue and how that came about in Ireland. How important is it that the people involved in the Irish situation give their message of hope to those parts of the world?

Senator George Mitchell

It is important. One of the most striking aspects of Northern Ireland was that many of those who participated in discussions had been active combatants in the prior conflict. The system that the Governments adopted provided for an election as the first step to what was called the Northern Ireland forum. From that forum, a less than whole number of people were chosen to participate in the negotiations. To get into the negotiations, one had to be elected. Many of the candidates who ran and won had been participants in the conflict. David Ervine, who proved to be one of the great leaders in the peace process, had served six and a half years in prison for an attempted bombing and had been an active member of a loyalist paramilitary unit. Like many, while in prison he became part of a group that had done some studying and talking. Its members became convinced of the importance of peaceful resolution and were active in spreading that message to great effect. Mr. Doherty was there. He can tell the committee how influential David Ervine was, not just with the members of his small party, but with everyone. There were many such examples on both sides. The roles of each individual were different. Some were acknowledged, some were not, some had served time in prison, some had not and some had been the targets of action, having been beaten or shot. It obviously carried a special significance and resonance with people in Northern Ireland and around the world that these were men and, in some cases, women who had been actively engaged in conflict before becoming convinced that the best course for their people, society and country was to engage in peaceful negotiation, which is the case everywhere.

Although I stressed in my remarks my strong belief that each conflict is unique and requires a local solution, Northern Ireland is seen around the world as a shining example of the possibility of conflict resolution and movement. Without trying to transpose the specifics of the Northern solution to another place, wherever I go, particularly in the Middle East, there is a great fascination with what occurred. There is also more study of it than even I know. I mentioned that I visited Stormont with my son. When we went to lunch in its dining room, 12 Palestinian activists were at the next table. They were in Northern Ireland studying the experience and meeting some of the Members of the Assembly and political leaders.

While the specifics may be different, I strongly stress the example of strong political leadership. Political leaders who are willing to take risks for peace are critical and indispensable to success. We can all be thankful for the fact that there were such leaders in Northern Ireland. They took risks for peace in a difficult and uncertain circumstance. Their message is welcome.

Closer to the time of the Agreement than to now, I organised several conferences in the US to which I invited many of those involved in the Northern Ireland peace process to tell American audiences about their experience and why they made the conversion from violence and activism to political activism and peace. There is no question but that the example of Northern Ireland carries a strong message. I thank the Deputy for raising his points.

The next member to contribute is Deputy Phelan.

Senator George Mitchell

The Bible reads: "The last shall be first."

I was one of the last to attend as well. I am not a member of the committee, but I wanted to listen to Senator Mitchell. I was in school when he was chairing the talks in the North. With a name like John Paul, I am identifiable with a particular community even though I come from south County Kilkenny, which is a long way from Northern Ireland. I wanted to place on record my personal gratitude as well as the gratitude of a generation of Irish people for what Senator Mitchell helped to achieve in Northern Ireland. I remember waking up to get the 7 a.m. bus to school. My mother would be making breakfast, the radio would be on and the news would be dominated by who had been killed, murdered or blown up the night before. Even though I grew up a long way from Northern Ireland, it was a hot political issue in my part of the world. The fact that another generation does not need to wake up to such stories every morning is a practical realisation of what Senator Mitchell helped to achieve in the North. I commend him on his work.

I noted Senator Mitchell's remarks about how politicians would love to get 100% support. In one of his last elections, perhaps even the last one, he achieved support of more than 80%.

Senator George Mitchell

That is why I quit. I knew I could not top that.

It was a good last election to have. Senator Mitchell might not be able to answer my next question. I cannot remember whether it was an official offer at the time, but there was some speculation before he came to Northern Ireland that he might have ended up as a member of the US Supreme Court. As a wannabe lawyer I ask, tongue in cheek, whether he thinks it would have been an easier or more peaceful job? The job of a US Supreme Court judge is particularly difficult.

This committee deals on an ongoing basis with a number of issues which remain outstanding in terms of implementing the Good Friday Agreement. Progress on some of these issues can be slow or non-existent. However, we have also become aware that a considerable number of positive initiatives are being implemented on the ground. For example, when we visited Derry recently we spoke with community workers from across the political divide. In their opinion, which they gave unsolicited, they were happy with the way the PSNI was engaging with the community. We met members of the PSNI later the same day and they were chuffed when we told them about this. Policing in Northern Ireland is a model for police service reform. We have tried to follow that model in our own reforms in the South of Ireland. The number visits between North and South has also increased substantially. I never went up there during the course of my childhood but I have been there many time of late not only with the committee, but also to visit sights and go shopping. The gestures that are constantly being made by the leaders of the various political parties and community workers are making a difference and are being noticed by those who were on the opposite side of the conflict.

Senator George Mitchell

President Clinton told me that he wanted to appoint me to the Supreme Court and he offered me an appointment in 1994 but I declined primarily because we were at the time engaged in an effort to reform the health care system in the United States. I had been working closely with a group of Republican Senators, particularly a Republican Senator from Rhode Island, John Chafee, who was a close friend of mine. I had been a federal judge previously and the Supreme Court is the ultimate aspiration for anyone who practises law in the United States. However, I told the President that while I was honoured and flattered, I thought we had a chance to achieve a major compromise overhaul of the system and I felt I should stay to see it through. As it turned out, we did not pass the legislation because Senator Chafee and I underestimated the difficulties that would follow, and I went on to other things. I have often been asked by reporters whether I regretted my decision. My response has been that when the US Supreme Court makes an occasional lousy decision with which I disagree, I wish I was there to state the other side. Only last year it passed what is known as the citizens united case, which has opened the floodgates of money to American politics as though the problem was that there was insufficient money. Adding more money was exactly the wrong answer. Overall, however, I console myself with the fact that had I accepted an appointment I would never have come to Ireland.

I will close on a personal note. My father's parents were born in Ireland and emigrated to the United States in the late 19th century. My father was born in Boston in 1900 but he never knew his parents because his mother had died and his father could not care for the children. My father was raised with his siblings in orphanages in the Boston area until he was adopted by an elderly couple who lived in Maine and who were not Irish. My father, who had no education and worked as labourer and janitor, never went anywhere and I never heard him say the word "Ireland". He knew that he had been adopted and he learned about his heritage subsequently from meeting his brothers and sisters, who had been adopted by families in different states. When I came to Ireland at President Clinton's request in 1995, I had no sense of an Irish heritage. I honestly feel that whatever benefit has followed from my coming here, I am the principal beneficiary because I have had the opportunity to travel Ireland, meet people and become aware of a history which is in my blood but of which I was previously unaware. Although my father did not live long enough to see this, I console myself by thinking how amazed he would be, as an uneducated man who lived a hard life of labour in the United States, if he had the pleasure of travelling all over Ireland and perhaps learning about his ancestors.

This has been a labour of love for me and I have enjoyed it very much. One of the reasons I greatly enjoyed my recent visit is because I brought my children with me. I want them to have the benefit of understanding their heritage in a way that was not open to me. The bridge was a very important part of that. I thank the committee for inviting me. It has been a pleasure to appear before it.

I thank Senator Mitchell for attending the committee to offer his great insight. I also thank him for the role he has played in the peace process.

The joint committee went into private session at 12.55 p.m. and adjourned at 1.10 p.m. until 11.30 a.m. on Thursday, 24 May 2012.
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