Joint Committee on the Implementation of the Good Friday Agreement debate -
Thursday, 24 Oct 2013

Border Region Road Links: Discussion with NRA

Chairman

I welcome Mr. Fred Barry, CEO of the National Roads Authority, NRA, to discuss the development of road links along the Border region. Mr. Barry is accompanied by Mr. Michael Nolan, head of regional and programme management with the NRA. We look forward to exploring how infrastructure development can be progressed to the benefit of citizens and the economy both North and South of the Border.

Before I call Mr. Barry to make his presentation, I advise witnesses that they are protected by absolute privilege in respect of utterances at this committee. However, if they are directed by it to cease making remarks on a particular matter and continue to do so, they are entitled thereafter only to qualified privilege in respect of their remarks. They are directed that only cognisant evidence on the subject matter of this meeting is to be given and are asked to respect the parliamentary practice to the effect that, where possible, they should not criticise or make charges against a Member of either House of the Oireachtas, a person outside the Houses or an official by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable.

We look forward to a good morning's work. In addition to members of the committee, we have been joined by a number of Members from counties Leitrim and Sligo with an interest in connectivity. While we appreciate that Mr. Barry's remit is in the southern jurisdiction, we are looking at the long-term vision and the potential for connectivity. I do not doubt that members will have many questions and observations to make.

Mr. Fred Barry

I am grateful for the opportunity to address the committee on the development of national roads in the Border region and links to Northern Ireland. Members will, no doubt, be acutely aware that the economic downturn in this part of the island has necessarily resulted in the cancellation or curtailment of many plans and projects that were to be funded from the public purse. Nowhere is this more apparent than in the national roads improvement programme, which has seen the NRA's funding reduced by 83% from peak levels, and halved between 2012 and 2013 alone. In real terms, the authority has had to deal with a reduction from a peak of more than €1.5 billion to approximately €280 million this year. It is a case of having to cut our cloth to measure and, consequently, our scope for undertaking major improvement works on our national road network, which comprises more than 5,500 km of carriageway, is now extremely limited. Unfortunately, this will continue to be the case for the foreseeable future.

During the period from December 1999, when the British-Irish Agreement came into force, to 2010 the authority's national roads programme was largely focused, in line with Government policy, on the development of motorway links between Dublin and the major cities on the island, namely, Cork, Waterford, Limerick, Galway and Belfast. The M1 motorway from Dublin to the Border was the first of these major interurban motorways to be completed in its entirety. Coupled with the improvements implemented by Transport Northern Ireland from the Border to Belfast, the construction of this high quality corridor linking the two principal cities on the island has brought significant time savings, reduced transport costs and enhanced safety for road users. An important element of the Dublin to Belfast project was the construction of the A1-M1 Newry to Dundalk dual carriageway scheme, which was jointly managed and was a model of co-operation between the authority, Transport Northern Ireland and the local authorities involved. I am pleased to say that, through our experience of working together on the A1-M1 project and through our contacts on other road schemes of mutual interest, the NRA and Transport Northern Ireland have established a close and positive working relationship.

The authority's major interurban programme in the period to 2010 has not been undertaken at the exclusion of other routes. We were able to complete a number of major schemes which have provided significant time saving and safety benefits for users of other road corridors, including the main cross-Border routes. Examples of these include the N2-A5 road, which saw the construction of bypasses to Carrickmacross, Monaghan and Castleblaney, as well as the motorway link from the M50 to the north of Ashbourne. The M3 Dublin-Ballyshannon route saw the completion of 60 km of new motorway from Clonee to the north of Kells, while the N4 Dublin-Sligo route, which connects to Enniskillen via the N16 and Donegal via the N15, also benefited from several major improvement schemes. Motorists can now enjoy the benefits of dual carriageway standards from Mullingar to Dublin.

As I noted in my opening remarks, given the fiscal constraints under which we currently operate there is limited scope for the authority to develop and implement the many national road improvement works required not only in Border regions but throughout the country. We are nevertheless progressing planning work on a number of important schemes so that we are in a position to commence construction as soon as funding allows. One such scheme is the section of the N4 between Castlebaldwin and Collooney and we expect the scheme proposal to go to An Bord Pleanála for approval shortly. The N14 Letterkenny-Lifford and the N15 Lifford-Stranorlar projects have been brought through the preliminary design stage but unfortunately we will not be in a position to bring the schemes concerned to compulsory purchase order stage until funding permits. Meanwhile, the bypasses at Belturbet, County Cavan, on the N3 have been partially open to traffic since August and the entire scheme is scheduled for completion early next year. In regard to the N14-A5 link, members will no doubt be aware of the position regarding the development of the A5 in Northern Ireland. In the event that the project proceeds, we will be engaging with our colleagues in Northern Ireland in the context of the State investment for the project.

I welcome members' questions and further exploration of the issues I have discussed or any other issues that they care to raise.

Deputy Brendan Smith

I welcome Mr. Barry and his colleague, Mr. Nolan. The landscape of our national routes has changed dramatically over the past decade. The establishment of the National Roads Authority was pivotal to the co-ordination of the work undertaken. Many people in our area of public life refer to every statutory and semi-State agency as a quango but the NRA is not a quango. It has been extremely important to the development of necessary infrastructure. I am not being parochial if I dwell on two or three issues because I represent two of the Southern Ulster counties. The first issue is the N2 from Clontibret to the Border at Aughnacloy, where it links with the A5.

A 400 m wide corridor has been identified for this in County Monaghan. The next stage is preliminary design stage one, which would reduce the width of the corridor and give some certainty to landowners in that region. It is a cause of concern to people, particularly farmers who may see their holdings bisected. My understanding, based on information from Monaghan County Council, is that it would cost €1.5 million to advance the project to the next stage. We fully appreciate what Mr. Barry said about the funding challenges but we must put in place the plans, proposals and advanced preparatory work as much as possible. The Monaghan county manager, Mr. David Fallon, and the then mayor made a very strong presentation here along with their counterparts from North of the Border on the critical role this development can play in development of the north east and the north west of our country and the Chairman's own county.

Some preliminary design work on the Cavan-Dundalk route is nearing completion, particularly the section from Cootehill to Shercock, Carrickmacross and Dundalk. The designers have rightly and prudently segmented the route into short stand-alone projects, which will cost approximately €2 million each. Thankfully, there is a fair bit of commerce and economic activity along that route. It is important for products going to Greenore Port and Dundalk. I am anxious that this project be advanced through planning. I appreciate the funding pressures, but Cavan, Monaghan and Louth County Councils have sought funding for the further advancement of the planning process through strategic regional and local road grants or through the specific road improvement grant schemes. It gives the opportunity to do segments of the route.

The N54 Cavan-Clones-Monaghan Town route is of particular concern to the people of Monaghan. There is a huge amount of traffic on that road and much traffic between the two general hospitals in Cavan and Monaghan. We talk about developing east-west. The route connecting Belfast, Monaghan, Cavan, Athlone and Galway encompasses different sections of the M1, A3, N12, N54 and N55. If further development and preparatory work can be done on that route, it would be using major sections of our road that are already upgraded or new routes. Those routes are extremely important for the economic and social development of that Border region. This would enhance the east-west economic development we want to see.

Deputy Michael P. Kitt

I welcome Mr. Barry and the NRA. I compliment the NRA on what it has done. The first motorway out of Dublin was to Galway. The road to Galway is excellent, but problems arise when one gets to Galway, where there are serious issues. Where are we with the Galway outer city bypass? My other question is a north-south Galway issue, the Gort to Tuam road, which is part of the Atlantic corridor. This road is very badly needed and is a priority for the NRA. Is the funding in place or are we going by some other route? It is a PPP. If the Minister is coming down to turn the sod, the NRA will also be there. I hope that road will benefit Galway. As I now represent Roscommon, I also hope it will benefit Roscommon.

Mr. Fred Barry

We have a number of corridors around the country, including the one to which Deputy Smith referred, where we would like to take the planning process further and reduce the corridor width. We are very aware, from representations from Deputies, officials and the public, that very wide corridors are disruptive and can sometimes be there for a very long time. We are mindful of that. We have very little discretionary money next year. While our budgets might sound significant, the moneys are already committed. We have unpaid bills for old projects that are open. We have commitments against PPP schemes which must be paid. Next year we are unlikely to begin any new planning activities and very unlikely to start any new schemes on the ground other than PPP schemes.

We are aware of the value of segmenting projects and doing them in smaller sections. Many Deputies will have seen that last year and this year we have had very few big projects but many smaller ones. Given that the funding will not be there for the big schemes for a few years, we have identified the worst bottlenecks, bends and realignments. We have done a series of projects, some only half a kilometre or two kilometres long, to make the very best use of the money available to us. We have more of those schemes in the planning process but we do not have the money to start building them next year. We will get to them as soon as we can. The money spend on those smaller schemes or on subsections of schemes is probably giving the best value to the public for moneys that might be spent on improvement. Despite our agreement with Deputy Smith on the routes he mentioned, the funding for this coming year will not allow us to do much with them.

It is well known that the European Court took a decision that led to the quashing of approval for the Galway outer bypass. Galway County Council is preparing a new application. It has started work on it, and some of the habitat mapping has happened over the summer. It will take the council until the end of next year or early 2015 to get a new application into An Bord Pleanála. Getting approval will be a long drawn-out process. An Bord Pleanála will have to send its comments and recommendations to the European Commission, so that will take a few years to get through the process with no guarantee of success. Nonetheless, we all recognise that Galway city is the last of the cities that has not yet been bypassed. The congestion there from one side of the town to the other is ridiculous at any time. We will do what we can to address it, but I cannot see it getting through An Bord Pleanála and the European Commission in fewer than several years. It will not be quick.

Chairman

What does Mr. Barry mean by "several" years?

Mr. Fred Barry

We must allow until early 2015 for it to go to An Bord Pleanála, which typically takes one and a half to two years to deal with a major road scheme application, although that may speed up as it has worked through its backlog of applications. Public hearings will take place during that time and there will probably be continuing objections to the scheme. If An Bord Pleanála is generally well-disposed to the scheme and accepts the arguments made, it will send its views to the European Commission. I do not know how long the European Commission will take, but given how bureaucracies work it is unlikely it will take less than a year. I do not have a timeline. We are in new space. We have not been through this before where a local authority application has gone to An Bord Pleanála and then to the EU Commission for its opinion and it has come back. This will be a first, but it is unlikely to take fewer than several years.

I have no better opinion than anybody else in the room as to how many that will be. The position on the road from Gort to Tuam is better. The State funding is in place. Earlier this year we were given a commitment of funding to pay the State's bills on it through construction and development. A funding plan, involving private sector lenders together with the European Investment Bank, has been arranged and approved. The lenders are lined up and the negotiations are going on at the moment. Unless something comes along to derail progress, I expect that to be signed early in the new year and work on the ground to commence in the spring. In all of these things there is no certainty until the deal is signed, but it is looking very promising at the moment.

Mr. Pat Doherty

I thank Mr. Barry and Mr. Nolan for their presentation. When this meeting was scheduled I had expected a joint presentation from the Roads Service in the North and the National Roads Authority. It is a bit disappointing that representatives of the Roads Service in the North have not been here.

Chairman

I wish to clarify that they were invited.

Mr. Pat Doherty

I understand that. Do representatives of the National Roads Authority and the roads service in the North meet on a regular basis and if so could Mr. Barry comment on the content of those meetings? Mr. Barry has stated that the N14 road from Letterkenny to Lifford has been brought to preliminary design stage. Did that also include the design stage of linking into the A5 south of Strabane?

Deputy Frank Feighan

This is the Joint Committee on the Implementation of the Good Friday Agreement. I agree with Mr. Doherty and I am disappointed that we do not have the road authorities from both jurisdictions represented here. We are really only discussing one side.

As Deputy Kitt has mentioned roads in his area, it gives me liberty to mention the N5 from Ballyleague which is much closer to Northern Ireland than the roads mentioned by Deputy Kitt. However, fair play to him for raising them.

Deputy Michael Kitt

From Galway to Roscommon is cross-border of a kind.

Deputy Frank Feighan

Absolutely.

Deputy Michael Kitt

It is an Atlantic corridor as well.

Deputy Frank Feighan

Since we cannot discuss the A5 because the other organisation is not represented here, we should discuss the N5 and N4. I believe there is progress on the N5 from Tarmonbarry to Frenchpark. I am delighted that work on the Ballaghadereen bypass is ongoing and it should be open early next year. We have a motorway from Dublin to Galway and from Dublin to Belfast. In between we have the N4 to Sligo, which people from Donegal and Northern Ireland are using, coming through Sligo. What are the proposals for the road from Mullingar to Sligo?

The N16 from Sligo to Enniskillen is a terrible road and certainly needs serious upgrading if we are really interested in the access from Sligo to Belfast. Much has been done from Ballygawley to Belfast, but much more needs to be done on it, because it is the forgotten part of that region and needs upgrading.

Dr. Alasdair McDonnell

I come at this issue from a slightly different perspective - a very Northern perspective. What are the stand-by, provisional or ad hoc arrangements around the A5? What progress, if any, can we make? If we can make progress, when might we make it, despite financial restrictions? My understanding was that when this was delayed, it was to be delayed for a couple of years. I know two years can sometimes become four. On the Northern side, we are very keen to ensure that everything is done to facilitate the overall development and to ensure there are no excuses for not moving on the A5. I welcome Mr. Barry's suggestion that a number of small schemes have gone ahead. What is the connecting road - the N2 or N3?

Deputy Brendan Smith

It is the N2.

Dr. Alasdair McDonnell

Are there further projects from the extreme end of that from Aughnacloy? Approximately 15 or 20 miles need to be developed.

I would also like to hear good news on the road beyond Strabane into Donegal. I will leave it to Mr. Pat Doherty to pursue that, as he is more familiar with it that I am. The bits at each end of what in Northern Ireland is the A5 are equally important as otherwise the A5 becomes less viable. I will be very blunt. I am very keen to ensure no excuses are left open for people not to work on that.

What preparatory work, if any, is taking place around the Narrow Water Bridge? There are concerns in the North that some of the excuses that were used to delay, stall and question might disrupt the connectivity around Omeath and that the bridge might be built but it would be a bridge to nowhere. What plans are in place to create or widen roads? We heard of significant local objections because people felt they would be overrun on narrow roadways.

I am usually upstaged - today is no different - by Deputy Feighan, who basically stole my thunder. I am concerned about the Belfast to Galway route via Enniskillen and Sligo, which is very important for that part of the country. We have got as far as Ballygawley and need to get to Enniskillen on the Northern side - we will get there sooner rather than later. While the route from Enniskillen to Sligo is very scenic, it needs to be taken slowly. While it may not be on the top of it, that route needs to go on the list somewhere. In raising those points, I fully accept there is a financial difficulty and I would be factoring that in. Are we talking about five, ten, 20 or 30 years down the road, or in our lifetime?

Chairman

A vote has been called in the Dáil, but we have a few minutes in which Mr. Berry can reply.

Mr. Fred Barry

I was asked about meetings with our counterparts in Northern Ireland. We meet irregularly rather than regularly, but fairly frequently.

We do not have an automatic arrangement with our Northern Ireland colleagues to meet three or four times a year but we meet one another regularly enough. We have common issues to discuss. We are working with the same suppliers, using the same materials. The European Union is issuing new directives and technical standards and we have much in common in our reactions and dealing with them.

We review where we are on our development programmes, both in terms of the work for which we have funding and what we will be building in the near future and on co-ordination of cross-Border routes. Everybody present is very aware that many routes cross over the Border and need to be developed on both sides in a consistent manner. These are just some of the topics we talk about and sometimes there will be very specific issues such as the specific agenda items dealing with the A5 scheme and our role in it.

A number of questions were raised on the cross-Border links in County Donegal, including the N14 Letterkenny to Strabane and the N15 Stranorlar to Strabanee routes. We have done the preliminary design work on the routes but the work is not going any further for the same reasons I gave earlier. The traffic is heavy. The return on investment is very strong. Even taken in isolation these schemes have strong economic returns well in excess of the cost of the routes. The fact that they will link into the A5 adds to the benefits they provide. We are keen to do the work, however, these routes are in the same limbo as most of the other routes. We have approval from An Bord Pleanála for the work on our side of the river crossing, with the design for the new bridge approved and the linkage arrangements are ready to go with the A5 at Strabane. We will tie in with the construction of the A5, when that construction programme is put in place.

I was also asked about the N4 and the N5. We are submitting the plans for the route between Westport and Turlough along the N5 to An Bord Pleanála. Our next main initiative following planning permission is to get this route constructed. My colleague, Mr. Michael Nolan, will comment on the planning work on other parts of the N5.

Mr. Michael Nolan

The proposed Ballaghaderreen bypass was mentioned.

Chairman

Before Mr. Nolan comes to deal with this, may I suggest that we suspend the sitting for the vote in the House.

Sitting suspended at 11.15 a.m. and resumed at 11.25 a.m.

Chairman

We will resume in public session. Mr. Barry was going to pass over to Mr. Nolan.

Mr. Fred Barry

Mr. Nolan was going to say something about the N5.

Chairman

He has had a chance to reflect on what he really wanted to say.

Mr. Michael Nolan

Deputy Feighan mentioned developments relating to the N5 from Longford to Westport. Mr. Barry mentioned the Westport to Turlough scheme on the N5 which has gone to An Bord Pleanála recently. Aside from that, we have some developments there. We have finished the N5 bypass to Longford, which was opened last year. Between that job and Frenchpark, the Ballaghadereen bypass is under construction. The contractual timescale is that it should be open by the end of 2014. The contract has initiated and with the bounce it got this summer, I would be surprised if it is not open by next summer.

That is the current state of development on the N5.

Mr. Fred Barry

I mentioned the smaller schemes, one of which is the N16. The second phase of development will be the next piece of work on the N16. Our side of the N16 certainly needs improvement but the likelihood is that the improvement will come by means of a series of connected but smaller schemes rather than one very large scheme doing very large lengths of the route. I do not see the money being available to do 20 km or 30 km lengths at once. However, we will continue to work and I am sure that over time, everyone will see progress.

On the questions about connections to the A5, connections at Strabane are well advanced and we are ready to begin the work just as soon as the A5 proceeds with it. With regard to the northern end of the N2 I understand there is a concern that we should ensure that we advance our planning at the least on our side of the Border to ensure that lack of planning on our part does not in any way hinder developments on the far side of the Border. I will undertake to ensure that this happens. I understand that the current position is that we are sufficiently advanced and in tune with what is being done on the far side to allow the scheme on the northern side to progress, but we will check into that and if anything needs doing on our side to allow it to happen, it will be done.

Chairman

I ask Mr. Barry to clarify what are the plans for the southern side of the N2 with regard to Monaghan.

Mr. Michael Nolan

We have selected a corridor between Monaghan town and the Border. This is a 400-metre-wide corridor which is being incorporated into the county development plan. That route has been reserved and protected. That is as far as we are going due to funding constraints.

Mr. Fred Barry

I will add that the European Commission has agreed with the Council and the Parliament to turn the TEN-T guidelines into a regulation, which means the provisions will be binding on all national governments. The TEN-T network includes the N2-A5 as one of the roads designated as being of European importance. That will add significant impetus and support to the concept of developing the road, particularly if there are second thoughts in any quarters as to whether the route should be developed. I regard this as a very positive development.

Chairman

That is interesting. I ask Mr. Barry to elaborate. The TEN-T corridor is the Belfast-Dublin-Cork route.

Mr. Fred Barry

A network of roads in Europe have been designated for decades as being of European importance. The European Commission has produced guidelines as to how they should be developed. These guidelines are very useful but guidelines are not mandatory. Earlier this year the Commission, the Council and the Parliament agreed that the TEN-T provisions would become regulations. They agreed a network of roads to be included and the N2-A5 route is included.

In reply to the Chairman's question, a subsection of the comprehensive network is the core network, which includes Belfast-Dublin-Foynes-Cork. The comprehensive network - which is the TEN-T - is inclusive of the N2-A5 route. I have no idea how this will pan out but it is the practice that EU measures come with funding support. It may well be that funding support will be provided, given the cross-Border nature of the scheme.

Chairman

Could a public-private partnership arrangement be included?

Mr. Fred Barry

Our PPPs are always supported by the European Investment Bank, which provides a significant level of low interest funding to PPPs. If a scheme is on a TEN-T route it will at least be eligible for a consideration by the EIB for support funding, whereas if a route were not a TEN-T route it is much less likely that the European Investment Bank would support it. Having the N2-A5 designated as a TEN-T route is quite positive from the perspective of at least allowing the possibility of PPP developments.

Chairman

I note there is a vote in the Seanad, Senator White.

Senator Mary M. White

I regard this issue as my priority. I thank Mr. Barry for arranging the signage indicating the ancestral home of President Obama in both directions on the road to Limerick. This means so much to the people in Moneygall and in the wider region. I applaud his decision.

I refer to the sad fate of the Dublin-Derry economic corridor. I have spoken about this issue many times at this forum. On Monday of this week a total of £115 million was reallocated which had been earmarked for the upgrading of the Dublin-Derry corridor. This project is now stationary. I believe it is probably one of the most important infrastructural developments in the country and is needed for the economic and social welfare of the people who live on the corridor between Dublin and Derry. It takes three and a half hours to get from Dublin to Derry. It is the most tiring and stressful route in the country. It is now much quicker to travel between Dublin, Limerick and Cork. It used to take nearly a day to get to Cork. Mr. Barry said the Derry to Dublin route was in limbo. The development of this route has now gone into limbo. I raised this issue at a previous meeting. I believe sincerely and passionately that Monaghan County Council should be allocated €1.5 million to prepare for the planning and there should be a definite indication of where the road will be. If the funding for the road is provided sooner rather than later, it will be necessary to go through this process. Pre-planning should be done so that when the funding becomes available to the NRA the project can go ahead. In my view it is an appalling lack of action that the Government cannot come up with €1.5 million. I do not wish this to be a criticism of my colleagues in the Government party but in my view there is a lack of commitment.

I hope the Chairman, Deputy McHugh, does not mind me saying it, but in my view the Government is not engaged adequately with what is happening in the North. High-level meetings have always been held but I do not think there is any thrusting energy going into maintaining the peace process by means of economic development. The Northern Government and its representatives on this committee have also slipped up in this regard, because it is also in their bailiwick. I have very passionate views on this issue. The Good Friday Agreement and the St. Andrews Agreement do not seem to matter a damn, and this road is just lying there. I cannot understand it because so much depends on this road. The biggest issue in the North is employment creation, and here is an opportunity to develop the road and the infrastructure.

Mr. Andy Pollak has set up a new project to develop a form of cross-Border economic development unique to the Irish Border region. Its aim is to create a Border development zone. This innovative research and conference project will explore the potential of the joint economic development approach across the whole Irish and Northern Irish cross-Border region.

I am not being too personal but my husband chairs this in a voluntary capacity. Many people are very excited about this development, and they are dedicated and sincere about the development of cross-Border regions. I spoke to Mr. Barry on the margins of the region.

Deputy Martin Ferris

I welcome Mr. Barry and Mr. Nolan and thank them for their attendance today. I am very disappointed that we do not have anybody from the roads service in the North before us. Who indicated that a party from the service would not be here?

Chairman

Representatives were invited but they indicated they would not attend.

Deputy Martin Ferris

Did that come from the Minister?

Chairman

No, it came from Transport NI.

Deputy Martin Ferris

We should write to the Minister and seek an explanation as to why they are not here today. All of us are making a significant effort to try to drive the project forward, and part of it is a cross-Border aspect that regards the roads service from the North of Ireland and the National Roads Authority here. It is very disappointing that representatives have not turned up and I am concerned about political interference in that regard.

The A1 and Narrow Water bridge issues have raised. I assumed until recently that they were a priority so when were they deprioritised? We have debates about them recently. There were also plans to develop the Ballynacarrick bridge linking south Armagh and County Monaghan. Could we get an update on where that project stands? There is a question of funding for projects, many of which have been put on the backboiler. I understand there is a shortage for many projects in the South but does the same issue apply in the North? Is the funding in the South the problem? Is there anything we can do as a committee committed and dedicated to the implementation of the Good Friday Agreement, of which this is a part?

I would not like to see this committee politicised and everybody is doing their best in that regard. As a committee we are working across all parties, so perhaps we make representations to the relevant Minister or the Taoiseach, as it could be a big help in trying to get those projects over the line.

Deputy Tony McLoughlin

I thank the Chairman for giving me the opportunity to address the meeting. I welcome Mr. Barry and Mr. Nolan. I met Mr. Barry in the past when I spoke to him about an issue relating to the N4, particularly the stretch from Colloney to Castlebaldwin. I acknowledge that the issue was helped along the way and it got to An Bord Pleanála for approval under an environmental impact statement compulsory purchase order. Perhaps Mr. Barry could update us that. When I travel every week from Sligo to Dublin, I can see the motorway, and the stretch from Mullingar to Dublin was mentioned. A new part was recently opened. People in my constituency have serious difficulty commuting from Sligo to Castlebaldwin to Boyle, for example, and there is also the potential to bring entrepreneurs and investors to Sligo. When they see the 27 or 29 white crosses along the route from Castlebaldwin to Colloney, it indicates there is a major issue. They highlight the number of fatalities that have taken place over a number of years. There is a committee working well with Sligo County Council to try to resolve these issues. Mr. Barry has indicated that motorways were completed during the boom years but the poor relation has been the N4 to Sligo.

There is also an issue with the N16. There have been negotiations between the National Roads Authority and Leitrim County Council about phase 2 of the N16 at Cornacloy to Sradrine. The matter was discussed and there is funding for additional works to be carried out. Will the witness provide an update on that? Sligo County Council is required to develop a proposal for a minor on-line realignment scheme and the matter is with the NRA. It is the worst section of the N16, from approximately the townland of Lugnagall to the Sligo-Leitrim county boundary at Gortnagrelly. I am sure the witnesses are familiar with it as I had a meeting with officials from Sligo County Council, who are very concerned because the N16 forms part of the east-west corridor linking Northern Ireland with the Republic of Ireland, or more specifically, linking Sligo and much of Connacht in the west with Belfast, Larne and Dundalk on the east coast. The EU has designated the road as an east-west link forming part of the trans-European road network. A route selection process for the section within County Sligo around Glencar was carried out in the mid 1990s and Sligo County Council is now attempting to develop a proposal involving a minor on-line realignment scheme of 3 km of the worst section of the existing N16. It heads from Lugnagall to the Sligo-Leitrim county border at Gortnagrelly.

I am highlighting these serious issues for cross-Border co-operation. The volume of traffic has increased substantially on this route over a number of years and it is vital that the NRA takes the responsibility to prioritise these roads, and particularly the areas of which I have spoken. These sections have been highlighted by officials with Leitrim and Sligo county councils.

Chairman

I ask members to brief as there is another delegation due here at 11.30 a.m. That is InterTradeIreland and I am sure this conversation is important to its work as well. I appreciate the patience of the witnesses.

Senator Michael Comiskey

I welcome Mr. Barry and Mr. Nolan and I thank them for the presentation. Most of the points I wanted to raise concerned the N16, which has been covered by Deputies McLoughlin and Feighan and Dr. Alasdair McDonnell, MP. The Glenfarne part of the N16 is very important for us; I live in north Leitrim and travel the route regularly. As Deputy McLoughlin has stated, the Sligo side has a couple of very bad bends and it is important to get an update on what is happening in that respect.

The N4 is very important to all of us and the Dublin to Sligo stretch is bad. It is disappointing to see all the crosses at the roadside but they demonstrate that there is an urgent need. It is good to see the matter going to An Bord Pleanála but we want to see funding to move it on. The Belturbet bypass is a great job but is it on target and is it almost complete? I spoke to somebody yesterday who wanted a sign on the Dublin side to direct people to the village. After building a good road, it may be more sensible to get people to come in from the Enniskillen but the person to whom I spoke was anxious that a sign be provided on the other side.

Deputy Dessie Ellis

I thank Mr. Barry and Mr. Nolan for attending. It is disappointing we do not have some Northern representation. I would like to mention some of the issues raised. There have been problems along the A5. We should apply pressure to get them addressed, pending funding becoming available. The Taoiseach said he would start to make money available in 2015 or 2016, so it is very important we overcome all the problems and objections.

I refer to the N16 and the A4. There is a suggestion that the Sligo to Belfast via Enniskillen road has been removed from the 2021 plan. I do not know if that is true and I would like to know where we stand with that. Could we have got TEN-T funding for work on that road? We seem to very slack in terms of chasing European funding. Is that funding being chased North and South for some of these bigger projects?

I would like to ask about the N4, the Castlebaldwin-Cloonamahon road. As we know, almost 30 people have been killed on that 9 km stretch. The Minister indicated he has a design, etc. When will the work commence? The Minister said he was ready to deal with it.

I refer to the Narrow Water Bridge. As far as I know, there was an issue about funding, tendering and so on. We need to get moving on these projects because these links are vital. Many of these are major cross-Border links. The Good Friday Agreement is about getting the infrastructure North and South, in particular to the north west and links taking in Donegal, Derry and places like that. They are fundamental links which need to be established. There are links throughout the rest of the country. The only main roads which seem to be left out are the links to Derry and Donegal. They seem to be more isolated than anywhere else.

Mr. Fred Barry

I thank the member for the kind words about the signage. On the Derry corridor, I completely agree that a good road corridor has proved important for economic growth everywhere. We have seen the changes on the M1-A1 since the roads were upgraded and the difference it has made. Equally, the lack of connectivity to the north west is definitely a restraint to business travel, social travel and so on. Whether it is to Donegal, north-south or to Sligo, improved road connections are absolutely essential for economic growth and competitiveness, both to sustain what is there and for the future.

In regard to the possibility of the Border crossings being, in any way, a constraint on the A5 going ahead, I would like to repeat what I said earlier. We think we have it in hand but I will check with Mr. Nolan. If anything further needs to be done to ensure the state of planning on our side of the Border does not become a constraint in any way, we will get it taken care of.

Deputy Dessie Ellis

There is a bigger problem on the other side.

Mr. Fred Barry

There is a much bigger problem but the issue has been raised. We will make sure we do not do anything to prevent it from going ahead. In terms of going beyond that to doing works or planning, I have spoken about the funding situation. In the absence of change to that funding situation, we will not be able to do a whole lot more than that.

I discussed the Narrow Water Bridge while some members were voting. The Narrow Water Bridge is on a regional road, so it concerns Louth County Council and County Down. We do not have any role in this development and we do not own or manage the roads which connect into it. It is not for us.

Mr. Michael Nolan

On the Ballinacarrig Bridge on the N53, that scheme was brought through the route selection stage and the visibility study and constraint study were done. Due to the lack of funding, we just cannot progress it any further at this stage.

Mr. Fred Barry

I would say to members that their colleagues in the North would probably give them a better picture than I could of the situation for funding North of the Border. I would not have anything to add to that. That leads to Deputy Ellis's question on TEN-T funding and European funding. The TEN-T regulation is a proposed one, which has not been passed, so whatever funding measures come with it will not be there yet. When the regulation goes through, we will see what funding goes with it. To some extent, I am sure it will draw on existing funds, such as the Cohesion Fund and the various other funds already in place, and perhaps direct them towards TEN-T projects. To the extent that there is additional funding, we will flag it internally with the Departments of Finance and Public Expenditure and Reform and will go from there in making applications for it.

Deputy McLoughlin asked about the Colloney to Castlebaldwin road. That is with the local authorities at the moment and we expect it to be in the hands of An Bord Pleanála by year end. I mentioned earlier that An Bord Pleanála typically takes a year and a half to two years to deal with a scheme. We expect, all going well, to have An Bord Pleanála approval for it in 2015. The question of funding for it to go ahead arises at that stage.

The next work we will do on the N16 will almost certainly be phase two of the work which has been going on this year. It ties in with it and it is a longer section. It is ready to go. That will be the next section. It will not happen unless there is a change in arrangements. It will not happen in 2014 because although it is one of a number of schemes which we have taken through design and planning and is ready to go, it is ready to go when we are in position to do it.

We will talk to Sligo County Council about its realignment scheme. I am not in a position to comment on it more than that. I know the section of road generally, as does Mr. Nolan, but if it is developing a scheme, we will certainly talk to it about it.

The comments I made about the N16 and the N4 related to Senator Comiskey's questions as well. Belturbet is well behind schedule in terms of completion. There have been various difficulties with the scheme, including one of the construction companies, which was part of the consortium to build it, going into administration at an early stage of the construction and so on. There are a lot of issues and disputes there. Most of it is now open to traffic.

Mr. Michael Nolan

I would say the balance of it will be open in the new year, some time in the spring. The last bridge across the bog is just reaching completion. The structure will be finished this week, so it is now down to all the tie-ins and the slow bits to bring it all together. That should be done over the next five months.

Deputy Brendan Smith

We want to amend the record of the committee not to say the "village of Belturbet". Deputy Joe O'Reilly and I would be very offended to think people would class Belturbet as a village.

Deputy Joe O'Reilly

Hear, hear.

Deputy Brendan Smith

Unfortunately, it is losing its town council, which it should not be, and my colleague and friend agrees with me on that.

Chairman

Does Deputy O'Reilly wish to come in? His colleague from Cavan mentioned every road in Cavan in his absence, so he would just be-----

Deputy Joe O'Reilly

I certainly endorse Deputy Smith's view on Belturbet. We both have a great affection for the town.

Chairman

Does Deputy O'Reilly have any specific questions?

Deputy Joe O'Reilly

I am okay.

Chairman

Is Senator Moran happy with the Narrow Water Bridge-----

Senator Mary Moran

I am obviously not happy. There is no link.

Mr. Fred Barry

I think I have covered most of the questions. In regard to Deputy Ellis's question on the A5, N16 and N4, there is not much more I can say as to what will happen.

If there is any funding available from TEN-T we will certainly be active in chasing it. We have done quite well on funding even though funds coming to Ireland have reduced in the past decade. In the first decade of the century we received close to €1 billion, €900 million of which went towards road infrastructure. That should not be missed.

Senator Mary M. White

I return to the point I made about pre-planning for the Aughnacloy-Clontibret section, for which €1.5 million is to come from Monaghan County Council. In the whole scheme of things, that is a very small amount of money. We forget there is the money for the project in full. The first part of the sum is intended for pre-planning and a following amount for planning. A delay will hold up everything. Who can I go to in order to push for the €1.5 million from Monaghan County Council?

Mr. Fred Barry

If I had an extra €1.5 million for next year I would propose to use it on renewal works where there is deteriorating pavement on the existing network.

Senator Mary M. White

Who can decide that €1.5 million could be given to Monaghan County Council, either now or in the very near future?

Mr. Fred Barry

Only somebody who was in a position to give us an extra €1.5 million. The money available to us next year is going to go to paying existing commitments and bills, and then towards renewal and maintenance works on the existing network. We are not starting any new improvement construction projects in 2014 and if we had-----

Senator Mary M. White

What does Mr. Barry mean by construction projects? I am referring to deciding what the route will be. Farmers and others are involved.

Mr. Fred Barry

I understand that. We are not initiating any new planning activities next year.

Senator Mary M. White

This committee is in place to implement the Good Friday and the St. Andrews Agreements. This is a total failure. I do not mean the committee is such but there has been a failure by the Government to get this small amount of money, even if there is a hold-up. It is appalling. I do not blame Mr. Barry personally but there is a lack of political will.

Mr. Fred Barry

I am not speaking for the Government or getting into that arena. Normally the Government does not direct us as to whether we put money into a section near Aughnacloy or in some other place. In some cases it gives us a specific direction on larger schemes. It has strategic plans such as the national development plan which pick out the larger strategic developments, and in this respect it tells us what we need to do. On other issues we are left to use our own judgment as to whether we should do A or B. In this case I am saying very openly to everybody that we have insufficient funding next year to carry out basic rehabilitation and maintenance work on the national road network, to the extent that if any additional money comes our way, unless it comes with a direction to use it elsewhere, it will go, in the first instance, to managing what we have.

The Aughnacloy project is undoubtedly very worthwhile - there is no issue about that - but it is one of very many worthwhile and necessary schemes throughout the country. To advance such projects involves much more than €1.5 million.

Senator Mary M. White

I know that but I am talking about pre-planning. We really must ask the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport to become engaged and see how imperative this pre-planning work is. It is not a big deal.

Mr. Fred Barry

I understand. I have committed that we will ensure the planning of that section, particularly at the Border, is sufficiently advanced that it does not become an obstacle to the development of the A5. I do not imagine it will take us anything in the region of €1.5 million to do that. I am giving that commitment but I cannot give a commitment that we will pick that particular scheme and give it additional funding.

Senator Mary M. White

The position remains that we must get the Minister involved.

Chairman

We will have two final contributions, from Deputies Ellis and McLoughlin.

Deputy Dessie Ellis

I am looking for clarification. I asked about the N16-A4 Sligo-Belfast road. Did Mr. Barry say the N16 was ready to go?

Mr. Fred Barry

I apologise if I misspoke. The entire N16 is not ready to go - far from it. There is one section of work we have done between last year and this year, and some kilometres of road have been constructed. A second phase is ready to go. That is what I meant when I said a section of work on the N16 was ready-----

Deputy Dessie Ellis

The case is that the other section has been removed from the plan for 2021. Is that correct?

Mr. Fred Barry

I am not familiar with any-----

Deputy Dessie Ellis

That is what was said to me. I was not sure, and I wanted to clarify the situation.

Mr. Fred Barry

I apologise, but I do not know the plan to which the Deputy refers.

Deputy Dessie Ellis

All right. It is of no concern.

Deputy Tony McLoughlin

I seek clarification from Mr. Barry. He stated no work will proceed on the N16, or on the Sligo County Council end of it. I mentioned some areas that have been highlighted. Has the NRA told Leitrim County Council it will fund going to the compulsory purchase order, CPO, phase for the scheme, but not for construction? There is a short section at Cornacloy.

Mr. Michael Nolan

That is on the N16. We told the council to go ahead with phase 2 and go to CPO stage with the lands so that the project will be shovel-ready. We will get the documentation work done and have the lands lined up but we do not have funding to go to construction. However, it is another significant step.

Deputy Tony McLoughlin

Yes. I thank Mr. Nolan and the Chairman.

Chairman

I thank the delegates. It is important to point out that this occasion was not only about a meeting today. We appreciate that our visitors attended and we acknowledge their input to the conversation. It is also important that we express the viewpoint of the committee on Transport NI, which has nothing to do with the delegates. That message can be conveyed. I ask the members from the North to work with us and try to explore the possibility of having a meeting with their colleagues in the North.

I will pick up on Senator White's point although I will not get into the areas where I disagree with her. In regard to forward planning, there are great examples where the national roads design office, NRDO, is doing its work, especially in Donegal town. I remember that in the early 1990s, the NRDO had a design ready for the Clar-Barnesmore project. This point can be clarified but I understand that €7 million was supposed to go towards a project in Dublin which was not ready. The next thing we knew was that Clar-Barnesmore was ready to go because the design had been done. The Deputy's message is the right one. Obviously the delegates are working within funding constraints. However, we could try to lay out a vision, have the design made and the preparatory work done. For example, there is a design for the Letterkenny-Lifford-Strabane section. Everything is a precursor to something else happening. The Lifford-Strabane bridge is ready to go but the A5 project must be done first. This is where the political fear creeps in. If one big project is not ready to go, what happens to the rest of the funding?

As a committee, we ask the delegates to stay in touch with us and help us to try to arrive at a degree of consistency in developing a vision. A vision is quite simple. We can look at all the inter-city connectivity from the capital to areas throughout the country and see all the good work the NRA has done, providing fantastic roads to Galway and Limerick, the south east and Cork. Then we look at the missing pieces of the jigsaw. This is not about entitlement. There may have been a bit of parochial politics today but this is more than that. It is about disenfranchisement, neglect, partition and all those elements of an entire geographical section of our country that was isolated as a result of lack of connectivity. We want to work with the delegates. If they can help us then we, as a committee, will help them to work towards their ambitions and aspirations.

I ask the members to use their influence in their own positions, even if only to create public awareness of the work going on behind the scenes. I am aware that officials are meeting at very high levels within Departments and local authorities, but the public must be made aware of this work. Members of the public will say these roads are not going to go ahead simply because the funding is not available. There is a negative attitude towards the ambition that we, as politicians, are trying to realise. Whatever the visitors can do to help is welcome, even if it is only to raise more public awareness about how the committee could act as a facilitator. We have met on this issue before. It is important to keep them alive. It is about fairness, justice and equality and about looking at the benefits of opening up an entire section of this country that was never opened up before. We are all singing from the same hymn sheet in that respect.

We will not suspend the meeting but will take the next part of the session. We invite the delegates from InterTradeIreland to take their seats.