Joint Committee on the Implementation of the Good Friday Agreement debate -
Thursday, 27 Oct 2022

Architects of the Good Friday Agreement (Resumed): Senator George J. Mitchell

Chairman

This week we continue with our series of meetings with the architects of the Good Friday Agreement. Former US Senate Majority Leader, Senator George J. Mitchell, is extremely welcome. There would not have been peace in our land without his efforts and without the efforts of the Presidents of the United States and its political parties. I recognise the wonderful contribution he has made to peace in our island over the years. Senator Mitchell's co-chairmanship of the party talks showed his unrivalled skills and ingenuity in bringing about the peace we so badly wanted. The Good Friday Agreement is 24-years-old and even at midnight tonight there is a deadline to try to get the Executive he worked so hard to establish up and running.

I will read the notice on parliamentary privilege that has to be read at every meeting. Witnesses are asked to note that only evidence connected with the subject matter of these proceedings should be given. They should respect directions given by the Chair and the parliamentary practice to the effect that, where possible, they should neither criticise nor make charges against any person, persons or entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable or otherwise engage in speech that might be regarded as damaging to that person or entity's good name.

Members are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that members should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the Houses, or an official, either by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable. I remind members of the constitutional requirements that they must be physically present within the confines of Leinster House in order to participate in meetings.

If Senator Mitchell is comfortable with this process, we will have a 45-minute session, at which point we will have a 15-minute break and then we will have a second session.

We are very privileged to have Senator Mitchell present. Each group will ask a question. They may have copies of most, if not all, of the questions. I will call the party and the relevant member will ask Senator Mitchell a question and the Senator can reply as he wishes. If he is comfortable with that, we will proceed.

Senator George Mitchell

I thank the Chairman and members of the committee for inviting me to join them today. As they requested, I have prepared a brief opening statement, which I will read. I will then be pleased to respond to questions. As the Chairman noted, it was 24 years ago that the people of Northern Ireland changed the course of their history. They worked for, voted for and established a democratic and peaceful process as their preferred form of governance. They rejected violence as a way to resolve their political differences. They had the strong support of the people of Ireland, who also voted overwhelmingly for the agreement, and the support of the eight political parties in Northern Ireland who negotiated the agreement along with the governments of Ireland and the UK. On the evening the agreement was reached, I commented on and commended the men and women who negotiated and signed the agreement. In the most difficult and dangerous of circumstances, they acted with courage, strength and vision. However, I also said that evening that it would take other leaders in the future to safeguard and extend their work.

Today, nearly a quarter of a century later, the people of Northern Ireland continue to wrestle with their doubts, differences and disagreements. That is, and should not be, a surprise. No society is free of differences and disagreements but unlike in the times prior to the agreement, they are trying to resolve their differences through democratic and peaceful means, not through violence. Imperfectly to be sure, it involves slowly trying to work forward with occasional steps backwards but with the support of the governments and people of Ireland, the UK and people of good will all around the world, they must be encouraged to resolve their differences peacefully. The solutions will not be perfection or permanence so it is for the current leadership in Northern Ireland, Ireland and the UK to find practical and workable solutions and answers to their current problems and preserve the peace, freedom and opportunity for their people.

From 1995 through 1999, I had the privilege of serving in Northern Ireland. I am often asked about what about those years is most important to me. My answer is in the following numbers: between 1968 and 1998 in Northern Ireland during what had come to be known as the Troubles, approximately 3,500 people were killed and an estimated 50,000 were injured and between 1998 and the present, there have been approximately 160 security-related deaths. I believe that latter figure includes the 30 people killed in a single tragic bombing in Omagh in August 1998.

With enormous patience and skill over several years and under several different governments, Ireland and the UK played crucial roles in establishing the process that led to the talks and ultimately to agreement. Ireland is now directly engaged in that continuing effort and for that, I commend it. I wish politicians here and their counterparts in Northern Ireland and the UK the best of success.

In conclusion, I will make some personal comments. I am sorry that I cannot be with the committee today in Dublin. As members may know, approximately two years ago, I was diagnosed with acute leukemia. Since then, I have been treated with chemotherapy in hospitals and now as an outpatient. As a result, my ability to function, travel and appear at public events has been severely limited and I have suffered some decline in memory and hearing. However, what has happened and what will happen in Northern Ireland means a great deal to me so I am very grateful to the Chairman and the members of the committee for letting me participate in this way. I am now pleased to respond to all their questions.

Chairman

I thank Senator Mitchell for his address - inspiring as always.

Deputy Brendan Smith

The Senator is very welcome. Some years ago, he spoke in person at this committee. Again, our Chairman outlined the fantastic and important work he did as the US President's special envoy to Northern Ireland and chair of the multi-party talks that led to the Good Friday Agreement. As he will be aware, a bridge on the Cavan-Fermanagh border at Aghalane in my constituency is named after him. It is called the Senator George Mitchell Peace Bridge. The communities in counties Fermanagh and Cavan were delighted the Senator was able to visit them some years ago and plant a tree to mark the occasion. His name is recalled fondly throughout Ireland, particularly in the area I have the privilege of representing. I compliment him on his opening remarks where he summarised so well what has been achieved through courage and good leadership on the part of governments and political parties. His input and that of President Clinton was so important as well. He will recall that he took all the political parties to the UK for a retreat on a given weekend where politics could not be discussed. Can he give us an insight into the thinking behind this and what it achieved at that time?

Senator George Mitchell

The agreement was reached in April 1998 and approved in a referendum in May 1998. Nearly a year later, on 16 July, if my memory is correct, the Northern Ireland Assembly collapsed. The two prime ministers and President Clinton called and asked me if I would return to Northern Ireland to try to put the process back on track.

I did and I spent several months there. The negotiations at the time were narrow, involving primarily the Ulster Unionist Party and Sinn Féin. For several weeks we struggled to make progress without much success and then someone made a suggestion - it may have been David Trimble, Gerry Adams or both. They said to me that it was very difficult for them and their party members. As some members may recall, the meetings took place in a government office building in Stormont and there was a fence surrounding the building with a single entrance through a gate. The media tended to congregate just outside the gate and to understandably pepper those arriving in the morning and going out in the evening with questions, challenges and comments.

It was creating difficulties in the discussions. It was an issue, as it was during the main talks themselves, trying to balance two valid objectives in a democratic society - freedom of the press and the right of the public to know, which is a valid objective of course, on the one hand, and the necessity for some discussions to take place completely in private on the other, as otherwise it would be impossible to reach agreement on controversial and contested issues such as those before us.

They asked that I consider convening a series of meetings outside Stormont. I consulted the two governments. Some renovations on the US ambassador's residence in London had just been completed. It is a large and very nice building. I arranged for us to go there. We spent about a week before the press found us and we got quite a bit accomplished during that week. I was able to establish some degree of communication between members of the two parties who had previously not communicated very well. We ultimately returned to Belfast and were able to complete a process of putting the agreement back on track. As I said, it was a one-off situation which worked in that instance. It is impossible to say to what degree the isolation helped. However, I think it helped somewhat and contributed to putting the process back together. I do not think it would be possible to conduct a full negotiation, such as the two years that we spent at Stormont working on the principal agreement in that way.

Deputy Brendan Smith

Obviously, Senator Mitchell has vast experience of public life and has held very high office in the United States Congress. Were there any particular lessons from that engagement and the success of that initiative?

Senator George Mitchell

Clearly the lesson for me was the strength, courage and vision of the people of Northern Ireland and Ireland, their political leaders and the leaders of the United Kingdom. This was an extraordinarily difficult and complex situation. I have already read the numbers, indicating the extent of death and injury that occurred. Most of all there was a tremendous fear throughout society of a further outbreak of violence which would have likely been more destructive. The whole history of human beings, of course, is of continual increase in the capacity of humans to kill one another. Now a relatively small number of people, one person, can with modern technology wreak tremendous injury and harm.

Ultimately through that, the political leaders of Northern Ireland, Ireland and the UK were able to come together. To me it was an example of the best that human beings are capable of. I came away with and I retain a tremendous admiration for the men and women who reached that agreement. They were ordinary people just like the Deputy and me. They had spent their entire lives in conflict. Many of them had been shot at. Some had been shot. Many had been in prison for violent crimes but they were determined not to return to that. As a result, they demonstrated what could be done. Personally, I think it is a lesson not just for the people of Ireland and the United Kingdom but for the people the world over about how strength and courage can rise to the occasion and can meet even the most difficult and complex of challenges for their mutual safety, security and benefit.

I am sorry that I did not get the Deputy's name but he mentioned the bridge connecting Northern Ireland and Ireland. I remember the day very well and the wonderful treatment I received from the people in the area. It was a beautiful day and it is lodged permanently in my memory. Many years later I took my children back and one of the first thing I said was that we need to drive down there and take a look at my bridge. We did, but they were not particularly impressed I might say. I have been impressed with it and I thank the Deputy so much.

Deputy Brendan Smith

It was particularly significant to have that bridge constructed because that was the only national route in this country that was closed during the era known as the Troubles. It is very appropriate that the way across that Woodford river, linking Cavan and Fermanagh, the Republic and Northern Ireland, at that location that is called the Senator George Mitchell Peace Bridge. I recall that day very fondly, as do thousands of other people from both Fermanagh and Cavan who attended on that occasion.

Senator George Mitchell

I thank the Deputy.

Chairman

I now call on a distinguished Member of our Senate, Senator Currie, whose late father Austin Currie served as a minister in the Northern Ireland Executive at one stage and was also a Minister of State at the Department of Health here in the South.

Senator Emer Currie

It is an honour to meet Senator Mitchell, even remotely. I offer him my sincere thanks for everything he has done to bring peace to this island. As we are under time pressure, I will ask my question. What would he do to reinvigorate our commitment to the Good Friday Agreement 25 years on? We have many people who were not directly involved 25 years ago and perhaps were not directly impacted by the Troubles. What would he do to reinvigorate that commitment? That is linked to what is happening at the moment. He has seen his fair share of crises over the years. He shared a story with us on how he managed one. I am not sure whether with social media he would be able to take the same approach today. What advice, if any, does he have for the current crisis?

Senator George Mitchell

I cannot, nor do I think anyone can impose an agreement from the outside. It must be internal, organic and created by those directly involved as was the case in 1998.

I recall how on the first day of the main negotiations, which ultimately lasted nearly two years, I told the delegates that I did not come with an American plan. There was no external plan. If an agreement could be reached, and I said I believed this was possible, it would have to be their agreement. It had to be the agreement of the people who were going to be affected by it and live under it. Two years later, on the morning of 10 April, when I presented the final plan to them after tremendously intensive negotiations over the prior two weeks involving the two Prime Ministers and all of the delegates from the eight political parties, I repeated orally what I had said two years earlier. I said "this agreement is your agreement". Every single word in it was written or spoken by someone from Northern Ireland. I encouraged them to approve it, which they ultimately did.

It takes a long time to achieve reconciliation. Before I came to Northern Ireland, I was involved to some extent in the conflict in the Balkans. I recall going to a small town on the border between Croatia and Bosnia that had been devastated in the conflict. It was about half Serb and half Croat. The Serbs had the initial military advantage, took over the town and burned down many of the homes and buildings owned by Croats. A year and a half later, the tide of war changed and the Croats took control and responded in kind. When I got there, virtually every building in town had been either destroyed or damaged. The mayor was a young man. I asked him when he thought Serbs and Croats would again be able to live together in peace. He thought for a while and said, "We will rebuild our buildings long before we repair our souls, but that's what important."

Repairing the souls of the people, particularly those who suffered direct personal loss of a husband, wife, child or friend, is very hard, painful and long-standing. I try not to be impatient or critical. Rather, I try as best I can to be supportive and encouraging. What I have said to the political leaders in Northern Ireland in the current period - the last time I was there was a few years ago - involved citing the example of their predecessors. Those in 1998 who were no different from us. They had been in the conflict. That was really the only difference in circumstance, although it was a substantial one. They had been through the conflict, had seen death and destruction and were worried about their family's safety and their personal safety. That does not exist now. People tend to forget that. Their minds move to other things. For anyone under 25, this all happened before they were born, but we must keep reminding ourselves and them what is at stake and encourage them as best we can to reach agreement. There is no magic formula I or any external person or force can suggest or impose on them. It must come from within - from the courage, strength and vision of the current political leaders of Northern Ireland in particular but also Ireland and the UK.

Chairman

I now call our first Sinn Féin representative, Senator Ó Donnghaile, a native of Belfast and a Member of our Seanad, but before I do so, I congratulate Ms Gildernew, who I understand is a grandmother. She has had her first grandchild, Muireann, so I congratulate her.

Ms Michelle Gildernew

Thanks a million. I did not have to do the hard work this time. Senator Ó Donnghaile will be asking the questions but I just wanted to welcome Senator Mitchell to the meeting. It is great to see him. Deputy Brendan Smith spoke about the Aghalane Bridge, which connects to my constituency, so we share that accolade.

Senator Niall Ó Donnghaile

It is a great privilege to have Senator Mitchell here. Like other colleagues, I thank him for his role in the peace process. His face and, in particular, his voice have left an indelible print on many of our memories, particularly those of who were growing up in and around the period of the negotiations. He was a familiar face in many of our homes. I was living a ten or 15-minute drive from Castle Buildings and I remember Good Friday in 1998. It was a fast day so we were eating chip sandwiches, or French fry sandwiches as Americans might call them. It was snowing outside when Senator Mitchell came outside to deliver the news that a deal was done. I am very conscious of the change that brought for my generation compared with my parents, grandparents and the generations that came after me, so I thank Senator Mitchell for all his hard work. It is greatly appreciated.

I think I am quoting him correctly that he said that, once the deal was concluded, the hard work would begin. Did he envisage that by now, the outstanding areas of the agreement like a bill of rights, the all-Ireland civic forum and the development of the cross-Border bodies would be implemented?

Senator George Mitchell

I did not envisage the specific issues raised by Senator Ó Donnghaile but, as I said in my opening remarks, I did envisage there would be challenges ahead. For one thing, the agreement did not deal with several of the major issues confronting Northern Ireland. There was no decision on policing and the justice system, which were very important and controversial issues. We in effect created commissions to deal with them in the future, so it was obvious to everyone that the agreement was a political compromise. It was imperfect but it was the best that could be achieved at that time. It did achieve the overriding objective of bringing the violence that accompanied the Troubles to an end, but it did not solve all of the problems that led to the Troubles. It was apparent to all of the participants that there would be challenges ahead and, of course, that turned out to be true.

As I mentioned earlier, in 1999, barely a year after the agreement was reached in Northern Ireland, the Assembly collapsed. We put it back together again by the end of the year but then it encountered further difficulties. There followed a series of discussions and negotiations culminating in the St. Andrews talks. I was not present then - I had nothing to do with it - but I have read about it. It did restore the First Minister and deputy First Minister and sought to resolve the issue of policing, which was a very important issue that was critical to the society and an emotional issue on all sides. I do not think I was the only one. I think everybody involved in the talks recognised that, while the agreement was a great accomplishment, it did not in itself and by itself resolve permanently the difficult issues confronting the people of Northern Ireland, which continue to this day.

I want to say one thing to the committee that I have said several times in Northern Ireland - I think the indication was that Senator or one of his members is from Northern Ireland - I love the people of Northern Ireland and I like the place.

The people are energetic and very friendly to those of us from the outside. They are warm and engaging but if they have a fault, it is that they are too self-critical. Self-criticism is a good thing but it is a great evil in Northern Ireland that is unwarranted. I recall the last time I went there was several years ago, in about 2016 or 2017. I was met by reporters who asked me whether this was terrible what was happening in Northern Ireland what with all of this agreement and unpleasantness. I said I just flew from the US to London and from London to here. I said that given what was going on in the United States and the disagreements we had and given what was going on in the UK - Brexit had just occurred - I did not think any American was in a position to lecture anyone else on internal disagreement. I try to emphasise the positive in dealing with people in and from Northern Ireland and to try to move them away from the negatives that have accumulated over time.

Even if this were magically solved in the coming 60 days and were the Executive to be restored, no one should think that is a perfect, permanent solution. It would meet the current challenges. Life has changed for each individual human being, society, government and nation. It is a truism that in human affairs, the solution to every problem contains within itself the seeds of a new problem. The challenge for the political leaders in Northern Ireland is to figure out a practical, workable way to get this process back on track, get the Assembly functioning and the First Minister and deputy First Minister in place and deal with the practical day-to-day problems that the people of Northern Ireland have. They should not worry about creating something that will last for all time and forever. It will not happen. It will be challenged again the following year. It is more an attitude than a particular issue.

Chairman

Now we have Ms Claire Hanna, the representative from the Social Democratic and Labour Party, SDLP, whose father was a great worker for the SDLP and was extremely well known. I think Ms Hanna is a native of Belfast. I know when I meet her there, she is flying around on her bike like nobody's business. She is another contributor to our meeting from the North of Ireland.

Ms Claire Hanna

I am actually a native of Galway, would the Chair believe.

Chairman

I apologise.

Ms Claire Hanna

I have been a blow-in to Belfast for about 35 years. We really appreciate the Senator's time over the decades and today and the thought he has very clearly put into the session and the challenges. A phrase in his opening statement resonated very strongly with me in that solutions are never permanent or perfect. That is a good reminder that compromise was not just for a moment in time. We have to do it as we go along and in these very turbulent times, it definitely rings true. The fundamentals of the Good Friday Agreement are absolutely solid, that is, a spirit of partnership and co-operation and mechanisms to manage the three core sets of relationships.

However, some of the structures, especially those in strand one, are showing some strain in how they are being operated. This is in part due to changes in how people are thinking and identifying and in part due to a culture of veto and non-implementation that has dogged us. What is the possibility of review and renewal of aspects of the institutions? That was provided for in the Good Friday Agreement. How does he see that review and renewal being managed? Does he have any advice for us as we try to refresh it coming up to the anniversary?

Senator George Mitchell

In retrospect, the absence of a specifically detailed process of review is unfortunate but the reason is simply that there were a number of critical issues pressing on the delegates, who were under tremendous pressure. There was a widespread fear of an immediate and severe outbreak of violence that had been accelerating over the prior three or four months. The difficulty of the issues they dealt with resulted in there not being that kind of specifically detailed review. As it turns out, the periodic reviews that have occurred have been initiated by crisis such as the collapse in 1999 and the further difficulties that have occurred down the line including, most recently, the inability of the Executive to function. If I were teaching a class on this at some university, I would probably encourage people in similar situations, to the extent possible, to include a more specific and detailed review in order that for all of the issues involved there would be some process for determining progress or suggesting ways forward. It is not likely it could have been done within the timeframe and pressure of events.

I am the one who proposed the deadline, because I was convinced that the process was about to fail and that the violence would occur. However, having a deadline and a pressure meant that only a certain number of issues could be dealt with and it was extraordinarily difficult as it was. I see that Ms Hanna is a member of the SDLP. The SDLP delegation was one of the foundations of the agreement in the negotiations led by John Hume and Seamus Mallon. The Ulster Unionist Party was the other, of course, led by David Trimble, Reg Empey and others. They carried a heavy load. All eight parties contributed tremendously to the process and, indeed, we needed the approval of all eight but it was very difficult.

Even though I was physically present throughout, it is hard for me today to recreate the pressure, difficulty and complexity of what they were dealing with at the time. They deserve great credit for what they did but the inclusion of a specific process of review, which I am not sure it could have been achieved, would have been very helpful.

The joint committee went into private session at 2.49 p.m. and resumed in public session at 3.06 p.m.

Chairman

We are now in our second session. We are joined by a Member of Parliament from the Alliance Party, Dr. Stephen Farry. Eighteen Members of Parliament from Northern Ireland are elected to attend in the UK Parliament in Westminster, of whom ten participate regularly in all our meetings. Like Claire Hanna from the SDLP, the Alliance Party participates fully in all our debates and discussions.

Dr. Stephen Farry

I welcome Senator Mitchell. I was a young staffer with the Alliance Party delegation in 1998, so I remember him well and all his efforts to find progress. My question concerns reconciliation and overcoming divisions in Northern Ireland. One of the limitations of the agreement was that it tended almost to freeze identities in the same way the Dayton Agreement in Bosnia also tended to freeze identities. Senator Mitchell has spoken about his hopes that we would see reconciliation. Obviously, we have seen progress but is Senator Mitchell disappointed we have not seen more progress around things like integrated schools, shared housing and other areas where communities should be coming together?

Senator George Mitchell

I think I did meet Dr. Farry at the time. I certainly dealt extensively with John Alderdice and others in the Alliance Party leadership. As with many of the other parties, the Alliance Party made and continues to make a valuable contribution in Northern Ireland.

Dr. Farry has identified one of the dilemmas delegates face, but he also re-emphasised the point I made earlier about how no resolution of an issue can be deemed permanent and unchanging. One of the essential requirements and challenges delegates faced in 1998 was to achieve a power-sharing government. To do that, you had to identify the powers and that is what it did, particularly through the mechanism of sufficient consensus, which, as Dr. Farry will recall, we adopted during the talks themselves in terms of how to proceed in writing the rules under which the negotiations occurred. Subsequently, that was put in variant form into the agreement. That really was the point I made when I said on that evening that there would be challenges for future leaders because I do not think anyone intended the mechanisms used in the agreement to be fixed for all time in Northern Ireland. There would come a time when it would be decided by the people of Northern Ireland and their political representatives how they would move on to other forms for achieving political consensus than those confronted by the delegates in 1998.

No one can say with absolute assurance how or when that will occur but it is inevitable to occur. The political structure in Northern Ireland is unique because the situation the delegates confronted was unique. A solution had to be devised that dealt with those problems and would get through them, it was hoped, and, over a period, adjustments would be made, as needed, to meet the then current challenges of the society.

Dr. Farry pointed out an obvious problem to which I think the answer is obvious, namely, that this is what had to be done at the time to meet the problems the delegates faced when, at some point, there was going to be some change and adjustment in that mechanism. Some time ago, before an American audience, I was asked the same question, in essence, in a different form. I said that we have an American constitution of which we are very proud but that, in retrospect, we know has contained many things that may have been appropriate for that time but are not appropriate for this time. We established a mechanism to amend the constitution and it has been amended dozens of times since then to reflect changing circumstances. I think the same thing will happen over time in Northern Ireland.

Dr. Stephen Farry

I thank Senator Mitchell.

Chairman

The next slot is for Sinn Féin. Ms Michelle Gildernew and Mr. Mickey Brady are online. Can Ms Gildernew hear me?

Ms Michelle Gildernew

Yes. Deputy Conway-Walsh is in situ and will make the next contribution on behalf of the party.

Chairman

Respectfully, she is not in the room. Her bag is here. I think she may be speaking to a constituent.

Ms Michelle Gildernew

I have a notion as to what she was going to ask and, if it is okay, I will put her question to Senator Mitchell in the Deputy's absence.

Chairman

Of course.

Ms Michelle Gildernew

Sinn Féin has Deputies and Seanadóirí, including Deputy Conway-Walsh and Senator Ó Donnghaile, and MPs representing us at this committee. I thought Deputy Conway-Walsh was in the room. It is easier when somebody is there. She is our spokesperson in the Dáil on higher and further education and is very interested in examining the opportunities we probably have not yet tapped into in terms of accessibility for youngsters to cross the Border and study in one jurisdiction and live in the other. We want to ensure those educational opportunities are available to them.

As Senator Mitchell knows, Brexit means our young people here do not have the same opportunities as they did before to study in Europe through the various Erasmus schemes and so on. Student mobility is a very important piece of work in bringing communities together. This may not be the question we notified to Senator Mitchell and it might be a bit left-field, for which I apologise. As the MP for Fermanagh and South Tyrone, I represent a huge constituency of post-primary children, many of whom could go to a school that is closer to them on the other side of the Border. What are Senator Mitchell's thoughts on the opportunities that are there for cross-Border mobility for students as part of ensuring we maximise the opportunities we have on the island?

Senator George Mitchell

I agree this is a very important tool both in the education of the specific individuals and also in broadening the base of support in the society as a whole for actions to solidify progress. I was active in support of an effort that was led by Baroness May Blood, who, tragically, passed away recently, to encourage integrated education in Northern Ireland. I strongly favour student exchanges as a way of bringing improvements in both societies, that is, the society that sends and the society that receives. In fact, there are two scholarship programmes that have been named after me to encourage exchanges between the United States and Ireland, both the Republic and Northern Ireland, for both graduate students and community college students. Such exchanges are of benefit, as I said, to both societies.

Ms Gildernew's question, although she did not ask it specifically, points up the importance of maintaining an open border. I cannot tell the committee how surprised I was when I first went to Northern Ireland to meet with people on both sides of the Border who lived relatively close to it but had never crossed it and whose impressions of the other society were rooted in circumstances that may have existed 50 years earlier but no longer obtained. Exchanges of people, particularly of students, are especially important.

I have also been involved in programmes that actively solicit to bring children from both communities to the United States during their summer vacations. The programme started in dealing with Israeli and Palestinian students and was expanded to include youngsters from both communities in Northern Ireland. I think it is an invaluable tool in trying to garner understanding and to benefit both the individuals themselves and the society as a whole on both sides. I commend Ms Gildernew on that and I encourage it very strongly. It is a truism and a cliché but young people are the future of the society and upon them will rest decisions that are maybe not identical to those being made now but that are similar in nature. Even if by some miracle the current issues are resolved within the coming weeks and the Assembly and Executive are functioning, we know there will be other issues down the road. Having young people who have been exposed to different points of view and understand better those with whom they deal is invaluable for any society.

Ms Michelle Gildernew

I thank Senator Mitchell. Deputy Conway-Walsh has returned and may wish to ask a supplementary question, if that is okay with the Cathaoirleach.

Chairman

Yes.

Deputy Rose Conway-Walsh

I am from County Mayo, where I met Senator Mitchell a couple of years ago when he gave a talk at the Mary Robinson Centre there. It is great to have him online today and I thank him for all the great work he has done. Ms Gildernew asked the question I had about the importance of opening up educational opportunities across the island. I acknowledge all that is being done in this regard through Senator Mitchell's institute and, as he described, by way of the scholarships with which he is associated.

I am very concerned that the exchange of students across the island since the Good Friday Agreement has been very low. The figure is less than 2% for students going either from North to South or South to North. Is there anything further Senator Mitchell thinks we could do specifically to open up opportunities either for apprenticeships or in further and higher education? I am also concerned about the closing off of opportunities under the Horizon Europe programme.

Senator Mitchell will be aware of the EU Horizon programme, which is worth €100 million, but because of Brexit, we are in a situation where there will be fewer opportunities for research and development. Will he speak to the collaboration and networks for research and development between the two islands, North and South, and with the United States as well? Does he see any other opportunities or something the two Governments or the parties can do to open up those opportunities?

Senator George Mitchell

It will require a functioning Northern Ireland government to pursue that, and that is just one more reason it is incumbent on the current leaders of Northern Ireland, Ireland and the United Kingdom to try to resolve matters. They are now engaged in what is a deeply complex set of issues, many of which have been mentioned. I cannot do any more than stress what I believe to be the importance, indeed crucial significance, of broadening the education and understanding of young people in terms of their society in relation to others that will enable them to make the right choices when the time comes for them either to vote or to participate actively in governance and to try to bring all of society forward in a positive way.

Deputy Conway-Walsh hit on a very important and crucial issue. I strongly support student exchanges. My own daughter, who is in college, spent her last semester in London. She is a student at New York University, and it has a campus in London. She felt it was a tremendous experience for her. That was not a conflict situation. The United States has very good relations with the United Kingdom, as it does with Ireland, but just being in a different place, a different society, with different standards and attitudes was a great learning experience. That is compounded, given the history and nature of Ireland and Northern Ireland, the separation and what has occurred. I cannot do any more than say that I strongly support the efforts the committee is undertaking and would do anything I could personally to advance that. It is one more reason for re-establishing direct and effective rule by the people of Northern Ireland for the people of Northern Ireland.

Deputy Rose Conway-Walsh

I thank Senator Mitchell very much.

Chairman

I now call Senator Frances Black, who is a distinguished Member of our Upper House. She also has a very important role to play in Ireland's Future. She might want to give Senator Mitchell a little bit of background on it. There was a large meeting recently in Dublin where thousands attended and talked about the future of our island. Senator Black, who is not a member of any political party, is the chairperson of that group. She has the floor.

Senator Frances Black

Thank you very much for that introduction, Chair. It truly is an honour to meet Senator Mitchell today, even though it is online. He has been an inspiration to many for many years. I say a huge thank you to him for all the work he has done on the Good Friday Agreement. I met him a few years ago through Jim Zogby in Washington. Again, it was only online, but I hope some day to meet him in person. That is an aspiration of mine. I would love to meet him in person.

I have a couple of questions for Senator Mitchell. What would he say to all those working so hard at the moment to secure a negotiated solution to the proper implementation of the protocol? What would his advice or guidance be to all of them? Does he have any advice?

Senator George Mitchell

To what is Senator Black specifically referring when she says "the protocol"?

Senator Frances Black

I refer to what is happening at the moment with regard to Brexit, Westminster and Stormont.

Senator George Mitchell

What I would say to them, I have said many times. This cannot be forced from outside. Even if I had the skill and knowledge to do so, which I do not, I could not write up a plan and hand it to leaders in Northern Ireland and say "Here is the plan for you". It must come internally. That is the only way it can be sustained in any way, moving forward. What I would try to do, as I did in my opening statement here today, is to impress upon them the importance and significance of what they are doing. I would point out what their predecessors did 24 years ago, in circumstances far more difficult and challenging, vastly more so. Many of those present have lived through this, some in Northern Ireland, and they know what it was like during the time of the Troubles. It was a period of profound concern, anxiety and fear and there was great difficulty in leading a normal life. Nobody wants to return to that. The longer they go without solving the current problem, the more likely it is that something like that might happen - God forbid. I would try to impress upon them the importance of what they are doing, how it will affect millions of people, some not yet born, who they will never know but whose lives will be greatly influenced by their decisions. Once again, I would cite the courage, strength and vision of those in 1998 who faced circumstances far more difficult and complex, given the nature of the violence that existed then, than current leaders face.

I would begin with the assumption of good faith on the part of public officials. They want to do what is right for their constituency. They want to do what is right for the full society. All of the members are elected officials and they know the daily challenge they have is reconciling their commitments to their own constituency as opposed to the national interests. There is no limit to the capacity of human beings to rationalise their actions, but in the case of Northern Ireland now, the leaders face a decision that will not just affect them and their families but could affect generations to come. I would do my best to impress upon them the importance of moving forward and being willing to make whatever compromises are necessary.

This does not directly respond to the question, but every political party on Earth, without exception, has those whom I call "the hundred percenters". They have to have everything their own way. Any compromise is a sign of weakness. I experienced that myself over a long period of time, in particular in the six years I served as the Majority Leader of the United States Senate. The fact is that, in a democratic society, where there are inevitably differences and disagreements, there has to be a willingness to compromise. Compromise is not a sign of weakness; it is in fact a sign of strength. I refer to principled compromise that is trying to serve the greater good of the whole society as opposed to one's immediate constituents. That is the challenge, and I hope very much that they will be up to it.

Senator Frances Black

I thank Senator Mitchell very much for his response.

As we approach the 25th anniversary, I have always wanted to know which aspect of the Good Friday Agreement is Senator Mitchell most proud of?

Senator George Mitchell

As I said in my opening remarks, I am most affected by and influenced by the consequences of the agreement as opposed to a specific provision of it, and those are the dramatic reduction in violence and the resort to democratic and peaceful means as a democratic form of governance. My answer to the Senator's specific question is really just bringing it to an end. It is hard for me to describe to the committee the difficulty of the nearly two years preceding that agreement. I said on many occasions we had 700 days of failure and one day of success. It was extraordinarily difficult to keep going in the face of repeated failure, unyielding negativity and unwillingness even to listen to the other side. It was an experience unlike any I had ever been exposed to and it was hard to keep going and hard to stay positive. That is what I tried to do, and I tried to keep open what at first seemed non-existent but later became a lane of opportunity through which the parties could pass to get an agreement. Rather than any specific provision, it is the agreement itself overall and mostly an end to the Troubles that had hung so heavily over the people of Northern Ireland in the preceding decades.

Senator Frances Black

I thank Senator Mitchell so much. He truly is an inspiration.

Senator George Mitchell

I thank the Senator.

Chairman

I have a couple of points. As Chairman of our committee, I was privileged to go with a deputation to Washington. We met Senator Chuck Schumer, who holds the position Senator Mitchell once held. Every door in the US and in Washington was open to us because of the connectivity between the Irish diaspora and all the political parties in Washington. I understand that if things change in the US in the week after next, the name McCarthy could be in that office, so we are very anxious to keep up our contacts with America. The American influence was exemplified by Senator Mitchell and President Clinton but we very much welcome the commentary from President Biden, who is clear on his support for the Good Friday Agreement. Even though the difficulties are not totally resolved between the two governments east and west, President Biden's support for the agreement has been important.

We cannot underestimate, and I think we are all of one voice here, the importance of Senator Mitchell's work, which is part of history and will always be there and will always be relied on. The Senator himself spoke of 700 days of failure and one day of success. All parliamentarians can attend this committee to engage with the unionist community, particularly their political representatives. It is important to pay tribute to the late David Trimble, who was key in bringing about the peace deal. Our biggest challenge is to engage in an appropriate way that is acceptable to unionism about the future of all of us together in some new formula or arrangement. I do not know if Senator Mitchell has any views on that. I just feel it is important I pay tribute to David Trimble and to point out the steps we collectively have to make to finish the task you all started.

Senator George Mitchell

I thank the Chairman. On American support, I am no longer a US Government official but I can accurately state there is broad bipartisan support in the US for a resolution of the differences that continue in Northern Ireland and for a resolution of any differences between the Republic of Ireland and the UK. Specifically, there is very strong support for the full implementation and continuation of the provisions of the Good Friday Agreement, especially as they affect the Border.

I was very fortunate that President Clinton asked me to serve, at first in a very limited capacity, and then ultimately the Prime Minister and Taoiseach asked me to serve as chairman of the talks.. It meant a lot to me personally. My father's parents were born in Ireland. They emigrated to the US just before 1900. My father was born in Boston, where they settled, but he never knew his parents. His mother died and his father could not care for the children so he and his siblings were raised in Catholic orphanages in Boston. My father was adopted by an elderly, childless couple from the state of Maine where I live and am at this moment. He had a tough life with no education and worked as a labourer and a janitor. His adoptive parents were not Irish so he did not have any real sense of his Irish heritage. I, by the grace of God, had the good fortune to be asked to go to Ireland and, in a sense, I am the principal beneficiary of it because I have learned a lot about the land of my father's parents and it has filled in me a void I did not even know existed about my Irish heritage.

If I can conclude this serious stuff on a humorous note, the first questioner mentioned the bridge connecting Northern Ireland and Ireland. I went there for the dedication and there were a whole bunch of ceremonies, meetings, speeches and so forth. At one small gathering I was asked about my father and there was sort of disbelief at how I knew so little about him. A couple said to me they were in the business of genealogy and, if I hired them, they would track down my father's heritage. The local councillor, who had a typical sly Irish sense of humour said, "Senator, if you pay them enough, they will connect you to Brian Boru." I did not do it but to me it is all a labour of love. I love the place, I love the people and I have enjoyed being with the committee this morning.

Chairman

Thank you. On that humorous note, I thank you again for your courtesy, for being available to us and how much we learned from you and your actions and your dedication and commitment to bringing peace to our island. We wish you well in the future in your health and it has been a great privilege to have you as our guest today. On behalf of all my colleagues here, I say go raibh míle maith agat; thank you.

Senator George Mitchell

Thank you very much, Chairman, and thanks to all the members of the committee. It was a pleasure and an honour for me. I wish you the best of success in what you are doing. It really is an important mission. Northern Ireland can stand as a beacon to people all over the world for the proposition that conflicts, even long-standing deeply held ones, can be resolved.

To the extent that you can do so, I pray and wish for you the best of success in helping to continue that in place.

Chairman

Thank you very much, Senator.

The joint committee adjourned at 3.40 p.m. until 1.30 p.m. on Thursday, 10 November 2022.