Joint Committee on the Secondary Legislation of the European Communities debate -
Thursday, 25 Oct 1973

Order of Business.

Chairman

May I direct your attention to your Order of Business? The first item is the consideration of a draft report to both Houses of the Oireachtas on certain documents which are set out. As you know, there were three draft Commission documents submitted to the Council dealing with different aspects of Community regional policy. The sub-committee, which we call the General Policy Sub-Committee, has considered these three drafts in detail and has prepared, for your consideration, a draft report to be submitted to both Houses of the Oireachtas with regard to these proposals.

Senator Robinson, who is a member of the sub-committee, and is a rapporteur, will report to you on the deliberations of the sub-committee in regard to these three documents. Before I ask Senator Robinson to report, I should tell you that the Congress, in response to an invitation from this committee, has sent along a deputation to us today. This deputation would like to be heard by us on the whole question of regional policy and also on some other aspects of Community policy. From our point of view, I think it would be more appropriate to hear the Congress delegates first. If no one objects to that course, I will ask Deputy Barry Desmond to introduce the deputation.

While waiting on the deputation, I will convey to the committee apologies from some of our colleagues. The following are unavoidably absent: Deputy Staunton, Deputy Collins, Senator Higgins and Senator O'Callaghan. The following members are attending the European Parliament: Deputy Creed, Deputy Dunne, Deputy Gibbons, Deputy Kavanagh, Deputy Nolan, Deputy Thornley and Senator Yeats. All these members of our committee are engaged on European parliamentary affairs and cannot be with us today. However, we do have some of our European Parliamentary representatives.

The delegation having been introduced to the committee, the Chairman asked Senator Fintan Kennedy to address the committee.

Mr. Kennedy

Mr. Chairman, ladies and gentlemen, I must apologise at the outset for the fact that our delegation is so small. Members of Congress are on the social and economic committee and other committees in Brussels and are there in Brussels at the moment. We regret this because they are in closer touch with the situation being members of these committees. Although I am a member of the vocational committee in Brussels and maybe I could get off on this level at the very beginning. I was appointed a member some time in January and up to now I have not received an invitation to attend a single meeting of this Committee and have not received any information whatsoever about the activities of the Committee. That is one of the questions we would like to ask you about, lack of communication and, in many respects, lack of information. Congress, representing the entire trade union movement arrived at certain conclusions in respect of the social policy or lack of social policy of the EEC. Mr. Roberts has a number of copies which, if you have not seen our policy already, we shall circulate. We also have a policy statement drawn up in June of this year in respect of regional policy. Mr. Roberts has some copies of this statement. In addition to this, Congress policy in respect of economic and monetary union was determined at the annual conference of Congress this year. I might read this motion which was adopted, because it is a guide to our policies in respect of the social fund and the regional fund :

Conference expresses its most serious concern lest the evolution of a common economic and monetary policy within the EEC should proceed more rapidly than the corresponding social measures which should properly precede any such development. Conference recognises that the final adoption of a common economic and monetary policy does not resolve any of the fundamental problems underlying the imbalances between different countries of the Community. But by abolishing national monetary and credit defence mechanisms transforms these money and credit problems into social problems relating to employment, standards of living, emigration opportunity. Furthermore, the vast demands of the most highly developed areas for finance for even more capital-intensive industry will create new problems for the peripheral areas through the operation of a common banking system. Conference considers that the compensatory measures which are required as a pre-condition will require financial backing of as great a magnitude as would be required at the present time to maintain the currency of any one EEC country in parity with the currencies of other EEC countries. No social or regional policy or other development programme will be adequate to deal with the social problems arising from economic and monetary union unless backed by resources of this magnitude.

Chairman

Thank you very much, Senator. May I point out that today we are primarily concerned with regional policy? The Committee would be grateful if you would, perhaps, address us primarily on regional policy and we might arrange to have you again on another occasion on other issues, particularly social policies. I am not necessarily ruling out any reference to social policy today because, naturally, regional policy and social policy impinge upon each other, but I would just draw attention to the fact that we are primarily concerned at this meeting with regional policy.

Senator Kennedy

I shall ask Mr. Roberts to speak on this. I should say we find it very difficult to divorce regional policy from social policy.

Mr. Roberts

We are circulating to you three documents. The first is the resolution which Senator Kennedy has just read. The second is the statement made at a meeting of the economic and social committee by our representative in June; and the third document is our recently proposed observations on the EEC guidelines for a social action programme. In this we refer to those regional and social policies. Just to underline one aspect of the resolution, Congress, in addition to pointing out the order of magnitude which we see as necessary to meet future needs, at the present time there is much discussion of the order of magnitude of the regional fund to meet current needs. We see these things being vastly extended in the future.

We suggest that it would be an idea to give us more money towards employment in industry, including service industry. It is suggested in the Commission's guidelines. We support the idea. We feel that the limit of investment aids due to the increase in capital cost of developing industries is probably inadequate. We suggest incentives for regional development. In regard to the expansion necessary in areas of greatest need imposed by the 50 per cent or £ for £ investment we suggest there should be direct implementation of the regional policy through the social fund. We also urge the formal association of partners in the regional development committee. In relation to cross-Border co-operation it may be difficult for the individual countries themselves to take the initiative. We suggest Community initiative in securing that cross-Border co-operation. It should be undertaken according to the needs of the areas.

In our third memorandum we referred to the social policy. We reiterated in this memorandum the points relating to regional policy which were contained in our earlier memorandum. I will not repeat them. We have some further thinking and we suggest the need for a positive policy from the EEC to develop the scientific and technological basis. If regional policy is not to be a matter of handouts and if it is to be a European policy for the development of regions all the factors that go into growth must be promoted by such regional policy. We suggest that there is need in areas like Ireland to ensure that there should be a positive policy and aid not only to work by the State but that assistance should be designed to help scientific and technological development. There should be assistance for industries which have the growth factor within them.

We extend our previous suggestions relating to job content.

We support the idea that migrant workers, of which we have none, should benefit from grants for training. We approach this as European policy. It is legitimate that those workers should be on a par with the nationals. We recognise that this means that there would be contributions from the social fund. We view this as other aspects of the policy—we must adopt fully the consequences of such policy.

The memorandum deals with the special problems of members such as those concerned with mental handicap. We have examined the proposals in regard to workers' conditions. We also suggest that the idea contained in the Community's rules for employment benefits should not wait until 1974. That is a summary of what is in the memorandum.

I must apologise for the fact that in the time available to us due to other commitments and the fact that many of our colleagues are on committees both here and in Brussels and because of the exigencies brought about by the present discussions at the employer-labour conference we have not had time to prepare a special memorandum for this Committee. I would like to join with Senator Kennedy in expressing the hope that this quick summary can be followed later by observations when we have time to present them in depth. We felt it was better to come and tell you our thoughts up to the present and then to hold ourselves available for discussion at a later date.

Chairman

I fully understand the pressures which are on you, Mr. Roberts, and on your personnel. This committee are suffering from pressure of similar type. A very high proportion of our members are similarly engaged abroad at this time and cannot be here today. The sub-committee has had the benefit of your memorandum on regional development and through the good offices of Deputy B. Desmond we have adverted to most of your views in these areas. In particular, we have had regard to what you had to say about the inclusion of social partners and your views on the importance of trans-border schemes. We fully understand your position and the pressures on your time. We hope on another occasion that you will come to us and give us the benefit of your views on many of the important matters which we will be discussing. Thank you.

Senator Fintan Kennedy

I would like to mention something on which the committee might help me. I say " me ", rather than " conference " because I have not discussed this with conference. I was handed a good deal of documentation in Brussels. I could not read it until I got home. It included the information which is headed " Regional Structure and Policy of Ireland ". It was issued by the Commission. Within that document it says that as regards the future population trend there is a growth in Ireland's population from 2.8 million in 1966 to 4.1 million in 1986. Having regard to the growth aspect in employment the total population should not exceed 3.5 million.

Senator Alexis FitzGerald

What is the document?

Chairman

" Press and Information of Director General ". The date is June, 1972.

Senator Robinson

There is an Irishman in charge of that now.

Chairman

Thank you, Senator Kennedy, for having drawn our attention to it. We will look into its origins at least.

The trade union representatives withdrew.