Skip to main content
Normal View

Joint Committee on the Secondary Legislation of the European Communities debate -
Wednesday, 11 Mar 1981

Implementation of Council Directives.

This report relates to the whole question of the implementation of Council Directives. Some EEC Directives are implmented in this country by what the Department — in this instance Agriculture — describe as "non-statutory" or "administrative" measures. These schemes are financed partly by the Community and partly by national funds. The national contribution is voted annually by the Dáil and the sum voted is appropriated to the service concerned by the annual Appropriation Act. The latter is the sole legislative basis for the schemes within the State.

The previous Joint Committee objected to this practice on the grounds that it frustrated the control which the Houses of the Oireachtas intended to exercise over the implementation of Community secondary legislation. In that Committee's view the detailed provisions of these schemes should have been incorporated in statutory instruments made under the European Communities Act, 1972, and so be brought under the parliamentary control of the State through the agency of the Committee. The Committee's view was not accepted by the Department.

The present Joint Committee revived this issue in December 1979 in their Sixty-sixth report, drawing attention to the fact that the Directive relating to the Farmers' Retirement Scheme had been implemented by a statutory instrument. The Committee asked the Department to re-examine the position in relation to other Directives that had not been implemented by statutory means. The correspondence that we had with the Department is annexed to this report. I would like to draw Members' attention to part of that correspondence, the second paragraph of the body of the letter itself where the Department say the following:

This Department sees no inconsistency in implementing structural Directives by statutory instrument in one case and by non-statutory measures in others. We consider that statutory or non-statutory measures may be used depending where the balance of advantage lies in each particular case. The EEC Treaty does not require Member States to use legislative measures to implement Directives.

And they go on to quote from Article 189, third paragraph, of the Treaty which provides that:

A Directive shall be binding, as to the result to be achieved, upon each Member State to which it is addressed, but shall leave to the national authorities the choice of form and methods.

The Department in this instance seem to describe themselves as the appropriate national authority and thus see themselves as having the right to introduce, by administrative means, the Directive concerned.

If the implementation of a Directive requires legislation, then under the Constitution, only the Oireachtas can implement a Directive, although the Oireachtas has the power to delegate to the Executive the power to legislate. The question is: has the Oireachtas done so by appropriating the necessary money in the annual Appropriation Act? The Department, it is presumed, would refer to the case of Latchford and Sons v. the Minister for Industry and Commerce to give them authority for doing what they are doing. But the previous Joint Committee held that, although it was not at all clear to them that this decision was applicable to schemes financed partly from the Community and partly from national resources, a different view might be held in some Government Departments. However, the views expressed by the Department of Agriculture in their minute, to which I have already referred, would not lead the Joint Committee to change their opinion. It remains the view of the Joint Committee that Directives such as the two under question should be implemented by statute or statutory instrument. The ones to which I refer are the Disadvantaged Areas Scheme and the Farm Modernisation Scheme. Again this matter has been considered by the Joint Committee before, but there is an analogous view which is taken from the Report of the Committee of Public Accounts on the Appropriation Act. The Committee of Public Accounts, in their report dated 21 April 1977 on the Appropriation Accounts, 1974, examined the question of payments from the Exchequer which were in excess of the limits laid down in legislation and for which the statutory validation was held to be provided in the Appropriation Act. This arises in cases where an Act of the Oireachtas might allow, let us say, to CIE millions of pounds to be spent in a certain way. What happened was that subsequently the Departments spent more money than was provided for in the original enabling legislation. The Minister and the Department take the view that the Appropriation Act gives them the right to expend more than was provided for in the original legislation. The Committee of Public Accounts takes a different view to that. That Committee held that it was clear to them that the efforts made in the past to justify by reference to the Appropriation Act the making of payments in excess of amounts specifically provided for in particular legislation has now led to the situation in which, as in the case of the housing reconstruction grants, statutory limits were being ignored and parliamentary control was no longer evident.

On the general principle involved, the Committee of Public Accounts made the following points, inter alia, as included in our Report:

"(a) The Appropriation Act appropriates moneys voted by Dáil Éireann for services described in Part I, the ambit, of each estimate. It makes no reference to the subheads and therefore gives no legal standing to the subheads ...............................................................

(d) Successive Committees of Public Accounts have been adamant that the Appropriation Act provides no statutory cover for payments in excess of the limits laid down by particular statutes relating to, for example, transport, housing, pensions. This Committee holds the same view.".

The observations by the Committee of Public Accounts reinforce the views held by the Joint Committee, that is, that the Appropriation Act, of itself, could not provide statutory validation for payments. In these circumstances and in view of the fact that the Appropriation Act is the sole legislative basis for the Farm Modernisation Scheme and the Disadvantaged Areas Scheme within the State, the Joint Committee recommends that the present practice for the implementation of these schemes be abandoned and be replaced by appropriate statutory legislation.

I should also say that the Sub-Committee felt strongly about the implementation of Directives by administrative and non-statutory means and proposes that this report be debated in the Seanad.

Thank you. I am very much in favour of that. Indeed Senator Molony and I are looking forward to a legal field day. A most important legal question is involved here, of great importance to the country, to get clarified, as to what precisely is the basis of authority. It arises not merely in relation to this but also in relation to all sorts of other questions which get put to one side. If that has been the persistent view of the Committee of Public Accounts over the years, we would like this to be clarified once and for all.

It is not just a legal point.

It is a significant matter from which much general consequence flows. It is not limited to the measure the Senator adverted to.

I do not mean to disagree with what you said. There is a very substantial legal point involved. I accept that, but I am saying that it is not just a legal point. Many of the Members of the Oireachtas who are concerned about areas being admitted or not being admitted to the Disadvantaged Areas Scheme, for example, would be worried about it. One of the big problems in relation to that is identifying how the scheme works and how submissions are made for admissions to the disadvantaged areas schemes. One cannot refer to any statutory instrument to get information about it. One has to contact the Department and seek the Department's view on everything. It is not spelled out anywhere what criterion is employed or what procedures are involved. Apart from the legal point of view altogether there is the general difficulty of making people aware of what their rights are under different schemes.

I should like to ask a question for information. What this is saying is that the Directive relates to certain expenditure a proportion of which is supplied by the EEC, that the Irish administrative system could initiate a scheme under that Directive as an administrative measure, vote the moneys for it under the Appropriate Bill and take the money from the EEC to make up the difference. This, therefore, would not appear under any legal instrument other than operating within the Department.

The Department would say that the Appropriation Act is its legal foundation.

The situation at the moment is that the Supplementary Estimates arise for expenditure which has already taken place but they have to arise.

The ordinary Estimates would include costs that arise under these schemes.

Supplementary Estimates when they are debated in the Houses usually arise for expenditure that has already taken place. If that can be done legally, is there anything wrong with handling the EEC expenditure in the same way?

There is a general point of view in relation to that. There is provision under the European Communities Act for the implementation of Directives. Section 3 provides for the introduction of statutory instruments to give effect to Council Directives. That seems to be the most appropriate one if one looks at our enabling legislation. It would not appear that the Appropriation Act was ever designed to introduce schemes.

The position is that the money is voted to the Minister by Parliament. Then, when he gets it, the Appropriation Act can appropriate it to a particular purpose but that Act cannot give him the authority to spend it when it goes over the amount which is stipulated under the basic Act which he is operating in regard to the expenditure. For example, in the case of a Housing Act, that Housing Act will contain limitations on what the Minister can do. All the Appropriation Act does, if I understand it, is appropriate this lump of money to the Minister for him to use under the authorisation of the Act in question.

Invariably, he spends more than appears in the Vote.

He may spend more than has been voted as a total but you will not find that he has spent more than the Act authorises him to without his coming under the criticism which the Committee of Public Accounts have expressed over the years. This now arises for us with regard to EEC money. We are in exactly the same position as the Committee of Public Accounts would be in relation to an expenditure which they found was in excess of the statutory limit. We are to report here on the authority by which the Minister does these things. A particular Department has accepted this after our reports with regard to the Farmers' Retirement Scheme but has not done it in regard to two others. Is that correct? After we kicked up a dust about this they did produce a statutory instrument governing the Farmers' Retirement Scheme and that has operated.

I cannot understand how they could have taken that view regarding Directive 160 when you have Directives 159 and 161 interacting with that particular Directive. The Farm Modernisation Scheme under Directive 159 will have the greatest effect on the face of rural Ireland, more than Cromwell even had. The categorisation of farmers, the amount of grant they are paid and then, under the Disadvantaged Areas Scheme, how certain areas are designated severely handicapped or otherwise and the amount of aid going into them, all arise. There is no way one can establish on what basis the criteria are drawn up for the categorisation of farmers and the designation of areas and so on. One Directive could be just pulled out and have a statutory basis but the other three might not have to have it. I would certainly like to see this discussed more fully.

In a way all we are concerned with is parliamentary control. If there was a Bill or an Act of Parliament giving the Minister authority to do this at his discretion then he could do what he liked with it, but we would have given him the discretion. At the moment there is no granting of that power which is being exercised by the Department.

He has his own discretion.

One would expect a Bill to set out some criteria that he must follow in the implementation of it. Parliament might choose not to have it so.

Does it reduce to the interpretation of national authorities in Article 189 of the Treaty? Is that why we are asking what is meant by national authority?

That is one aspect of it. The Department is assuming it is the national authority or the Minister is the national authority. We say that there is need for legislation and legislation is only capable of being enacted by the Houses of the Oireachtas.

There is need for legislation because we are spending money as a nation and there is no authorisation for that expenditure.

It comes up under an existing Vote, does it not?

It does not. There is nothing in the Appropriation Act.

For example, the Farm Modernisation Scheme is handled under some Vote.

The money is voted under the Appropriation Act and that is just one general Vote. Take the views of the Committee of Public Accounts, which are that:

The Appropriation Act appropriates moneys voted by Dáil Éireann for services described in Part 1, the ambit, of each Estimate. It makes no reference to subheads and therefore gives no legal standing to subheads.

It is like giving a chit to spend £100 without saying what it was authorised for.

In general I am not in favour of controls for controls' sake, if the existing controls can catch any misuse or abuse or wrong operation of a scheme.

I do not think anybody is suggesting that there is anything wrong with——

I realise that, but if the existing procedures can handle all this without tying up Parliament, passing other statutory instruments or otherwise, then why do it? I am willing to go ahead with this but I am just making that point. It involves more man hours or hours of time that have to be spent by people to make something happen. If it is a good thing, EEC legislation has tabled it and it has been accepted by everybody, then the administrative procedures by which it is carried out should be minimised as long as there is some process which oversees it so that it does not go wrong.

First of all, if we take the principle involved in this: does the directive require legislation to be passed? It requires legislation because Irish money is being spent on it, yes. The Oireachtas is the only body empowered to pass legislation——

But does it require new legislation? That is the point.

It would, of course. There is no enabling Act on our Statute Book to cover the question of either of these Directives we are talking about—the Farm Modernisation Scheme and Disadvantaged Areas Scheme — there just is not any at all. There has never been an instrument or an Act passed in relation to either of those. Nevertheless, millions of pounds are being spent each year in relation to them. The justification for doing it is the Appropriation Act which covers every item of expenditure in the country. The only occasion the detailed aspects of those are discussed is when the ordinary Estimates go before the Dáil.

The matter is very fully reviewed in the Public Accounts Report dated 24 June 1976 signed on 21 April 1977 by Deputy Vivion de Valera and is even more extensive on all of this than the citation in the Committee's report. I think I had better put it on the record:

On the general principle involved, the Committee makes the following points:

(a) The Appropriation Act appropriates moneys voted by Dáil Éireann for services described in Part I, the ambit, of each estimate. It makes no reference to the subheads and therefore gives no legal standing to the subheads. A subhead which provides for a payment to CIE could not therefore be held, by virtue of the Appropriation Act, to provide statutory validation for payments in excess of the limits laid down by the Transport Acts.

(b) There was, in fact, no reference in the long title or in the text of the Appropriation Act to the amendment of the Transport Acts.

(c) If it is being held that the Appropriation Act constitutes amending legislation by virtue of what is contained in the subheads of particular estimates, the subheads themselves then assume a statutory significance which is at variance with recognised principles of Government accounting. It would call in question immediately the practice of virement under which, by the specific authority of the Minister for Finance, savings on one or more subheads can be applied to meet excess expenditure on another subhead or subheads in the same Vote. Virement would be in breach of the Appropriation Act if the subheads had any statutory significance.

(d) Successive Committees of Public accounts have been adamant that the Appropriation Act provides no statutory cover for payments in excess of the limits laid down by particular statutes relating to, for example, transport, housing, pensions. This Committee holds the same view.

That is a fairly lengthy citation from paragraph 12 which is probably the most relevant part.

I bow to the professionals in this. It looks as if it needs further discussion. Perhaps, if it is discussed, I might then understand it better.

The point has also been made: was it the intention of anybody that that power be given to the Minister under the Appropriation Act? The analogy is that we could repeal all our social welfare legislation, simply vote X million of pounds to the Minister in the Appropriation Act and he could spend it as he pleased himself. This is really what we are talking about. He has been given a sum of money under the Appropriation Act and he has got full control himself as to how that money is spent, in what way it is spent——

But could this not be if this claim were correct?

Under the existing system——

Could he not spend the money under some existing agriculture Act?

The Legislature has no control——

Only to the extent of the power given to him by the Agricultural Act. That is the point.

And the Farm Modernisation Scheme would come under that.

There is no equivalent legislation giving him power to do that. And he could have that power.

No, there is no Act at all. If we appropriate £20 million to the Minister under the Appropriation Act, for which he has applied for this purpose, he need not spend it on the Farm Modernisation Scheme or the Disadvantaged Areas Scheme at all, if my understanding of the position is correct.

Does the Senator want a debate on this?

That is for the Committee.

I think it is required, yes.

Does that require an amendment of the Senator's Report? It is in the draft?

It is not in the draft, no.

I might draw the Senator's attention to the fact that he failed to note the Joint Committee's indebtedness to himself in the last sentence of paragraph 1.

Paragraphs 1 to 8, inclusive, agreed to.

NEW PARAGRAPH.

After paragraph 8 to insert a new paragraph as follows:

"In view of the importance of this matter the Joint Committee requests that a debate take place in Seanad Éireann. In this connection the Joint Committee refers to the order of Seanad Éireann of 18th February, 1981".

Amendment agreed to.
Appendix agreed to.
Draft report, as amended, agreed to.
Ordered: To report accordingly.

We have now completed our public business. We have an item on the agenda in respect of which I might invite Senator Mulcahy to open in private business.

The Committee went into private session at 6 p.m.

The Committee adjourned at 6.15 p.m.

Top
Share