Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport and Media debate

Development of Local and Community Arts: Discussion (Resumed)

An Cathaoirleach

We have received apologies from Deputy Munster and Senator Hoey.

I warmly welcome our guests who are joining us on the topic of the arts. Today's meeting is in two separate sessions. We will resume our consideration of the development of local and community arts with a focus on developing arts in Irish localities. The first session has been convened with representatives from the County and City Management Association, Dublin City Council, Cork City Council and Waterford City and County Council. In our second session we will continue our examination of this topic and hear from Joe Caslin, street artist, teacher and activist; Una Mullally, writer; and representatives from Visual Artists Ireland and the Walls Project CLG.

Today's meeting will focus on developing arts in Irish localities. I warmly welcome our first set of witnesses. From the County and City Management Association, CCMA, I welcome Mr. Michael Rainey, interim chief executive with Carlow County Council and member of the CCMA rural development, community, culture and heritage committee; Mr. Seán McKeown, interim chief executive, Kilkenny County Council; and Ms Melanie Scott, chair of the local authority arts network and local arts officer, Tipperary County Council. From Dublin City Council I also welcome Mr. Ray Yeates, city arts officer in the culture, recreation and economic services department, and Ms Siobhán Maher, acting senior executive officer in the planning and property development department. Those are a lot of titles and names. We are thrilled to have our guests with us today. From Cork City Council I welcome Ms Ann Doherty, chief executive, Ms Michelle Carew, arts officer, and Ms Siobhán Clancy, assistant arts officer in community arts. Ms Doherty will join us online and is very welcome, virtually. From Waterford City Council I welcome Mr. Kieran Kehoe, director of services, and Ms Jane Cantwell, city and county librarian.

The format of the meeting is such that I will invite our witnesses to deliver their opening statements. They are asked to limit them to three minutes each to give us all enough time for over-and-back conversation and questions and answers. As the witnesses are probably aware, the committee may publish the opening statements on its web page. The opening statements will be followed by questions from committee members. Is that agreed?

Before we proceed to opening statements, I must explain some limitations on parliamentary privilege and the practice of the Houses regarding references witnesses may make to other persons in their evidence. The evidence of witnesses who are physically present or who give evidence from within the parliamentary precincts is protected by absolute privilege pursuant to the Constitution and statute in respect of the presentation they make to the committee. However, a number of witnesses are giving their evidence remotely from a place outside the parliamentary precincts and, as such, may not benefit from the same level of immunity from legal proceedings as somebody physically present does. Such witnesses may think it appropriate to take legal advice on this matter.

Witnesses are again reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that they should not comment on, criticise, or make charges against a person or entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable or otherwise engage in speech that might be regarded as damaging to the good name of that person or entity. Therefore, if statements are potentially defamatory in regard to an identifiable person or entity, witnesses will be directed to discontinue their remarks. It is imperative that they comply.

Members are also reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that they should not comment on, criticise, or make charges against a person or entity outside the Houses or an official either by name or in such a way as to make her or him identifiable. I remind members of the constitutional requirement that members must be physically present within the confines of Leinster House to participate in the public meeting. I cannot permit a member to attend where he or she is not adhering to that constitutional requirement.

With all the housekeeping out of the way I am delighted to get to the more meaty part of our discussion. I ask Mr. Rainey on behalf of the CCMA to begin with his opening statement.

Mr. Michael Rainey

On behalf of the County and City Management Association, CCMA, I thank the Cathaoirleach and members of the Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport and Media for the opportunity to present on the role of local government in the development of local and community arts. I am interim chief executive of Carlow County Council and a member of the CCMA rural development, community, culture and heritage, RCCH, committee. I am accompanied by Mr. Seán McKeown, interim chief executive of Kilkenny County Council, and Ms Melanie Scott, chair of the association of local authority arts officers network and arts officer for Tipperary County Council. I acknowledge that our other colleagues in Dublin City Council, Cork City Council, including the chief executive, Ms Ann Doherty, and Waterford City and County Council are also present with the joint committee today.

Local authorities have been to the fore in supporting the development of the arts on a local and national level since 1985 with the appointment of the first arts officer in County Clare in partnership with the Arts Council. This progressive step almost 40 years ago heralded a new era in local arts development and leadership, embedding arts and cultural development alongside a broader local development commitment in a way which is relevant, responsive, specialised and critically unique to our places and communities. Local authorities are the second largest single investor in the arts in Ireland after the Arts Council. In 2022, local government net current investment in the arts was €41,918,230, which is a 10.6% increase on 2021 figures. The Arts Act 2003 requires local authorities to prepare and implement plans for the development of the arts in its functional area, taking account of Government policy in relation to the arts. The 2003 Act also enables each local authority to provide "such financial or other assistance as it considers appropriate ... for the purposes of ... stimulating public interest in the arts ... promoting knowledge, appreciation and practice of the arts, or ... improving standards in the arts, within its functional area”.

The relationship between the County and City Management Association and the Arts Council was formalised in 2016 and articulated through a new agreement, A Framework for Collaboration, which makes clear the respective commitments to arts development and, in particular, to strive for equality of access to and engagement in the arts by all those living in Ireland. While local authority arts strategies throughout the country differ in response to local need, we all strategically plan for local and community arts programmes and development initiatives, leading on innovative approaches to many of the themes currently being considered by the committee. The work of local authority arts offices requires a strategic, collaborative and creative approach in leading and developing a strong vision for the arts in the local authority area to ensure that citizens have the opportunity to engage with and participate in the arts and can enjoy a vibrant cultural life in their locality.

Local authorities are an important local delivery partner for a range of national arts and cultural initiatives, for example, local authority and Arts Council framework agreements; the Arts Council creative places programme; the local live performance programming scheme; the delivery of Keep Well programmes; delivery of cultural programmes in association with the Ukrainian health and wellbeing support fund; In The Open Faoin Spéir, an Arts Council funded Covid-19 programme; the Department of Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media’s outdoor public space scheme; the Creative Ireland programme; the music generation programme; the Per Cent for Art scheme; Culture Night; arts and health initiatives; teacher-artists partnerships; the Bealtaine Festival; and Poetry Day Ireland.

In terms of the broader development agenda, local authorities are intrinsic to the roll-out of policy initiatives such as Our Rural Future, town centre first, urban regeneration and development projects, rural regeneration and development projects, town and village renewal, local authorities urban animation capital infrastructure scheme, cultural tourism, and actions to support the provision of affordable workspaces for artists and creative practitioners.

Local authorities are facing a marked increase in demand from local creative communities regarding the provision of financial assistance due to increased energy, staffing and cost-of-living demands. Increased support for operational costs for access points to the arts, for example, arts centres, theatres, workspaces, rehearsal spaces and long-term strategic programming, will ensure that the arts continue to impact and enhance people's lives across Ireland.

Local authorities play an essential leadership role in the development of local and community arts in their areas, working alongside our communities, the creative sector locally and nationally, and local agencies to improve our counties, cities, towns, villages and rural areas as inclusive and creative places in which to live, work and to visit. Continued long-term strategic investment in local authorities and in programmes to develop capacity and art experiences for all citizens will strengthen the arts in Ireland to the benefit of all.

An Cathaoirleach

I thank Mr. Rainey. I ask Mr. Yeates to try to stick to the three minutes on the clock. I know it might be difficult to time himself, but I would ask that he leaves enough time. We have quite a few guests here today and we want to give everybody the opportunity. I will hand over to Mr. Ray Yeates of Dublin City Council.

Mr. Ray Yeates

Go raibh míle maith agat, a Chathaoirligh. Is cúis áthais dom an seans a bheith agam labhairt leis an gcomhchoiste inniu. Culture and the arts are central to human expression and if placed in a community context, with an inclusive developmental and co-creation approach, their impact can be profound, providing opportunities for everyone involved to learn, safely disagree and grow, while supporting the economy and our society. Dublin City Council is actively engaged in providing opportunities for cultural and arts engagement, through our work and those we engage with, by providing spaces and services for a wide range of events, projects and programming. In line with the UNESCO definition of culture, this work includes the provision and management of parks, libraries, events, sports, community facilities, the Dublin Bay biosphere as well as the arts office, the Hugh Lane Gallery and the work of the Dublin City Council Culture Company. The majority of the cultural and arts buildings and services we provide are managed by the staff of the culture, recreation and economic services, CRES department, where the revenue and capital spend on culture last year was in excess of €100 million.

In addition to the work of the CRES department, Dublin City Council also regularly agrees the installation of murals in negotiated spaces and on temporary structures with the aim of achieving a clean, animated and beautiful city. This approach is taken in order to foster greater community pride and address issues of antisocial behaviour, safety or graffiti and tagging in an area. Staff working in our area offices involved in reopening the city following the Covid-19 pandemic have spent a substantial amount on art in the community through murals and engagements in community building. They commissioned large-scale murals for 2021, for example, at a cost of approximately €300,000. I will refer briefly to some of the work, spaces, programme and activations we engage in, which support community arts and cultural engagement for those who live, work in or visit our capital city.

On 21 May, Dublin City Council, with key support from Creative Ireland and in partnership with Sing Ireland, brought four specially commissioned songs about the Docklands area of Dublin to be performed by local communities at the Bord Gáis Energy Theatre. Sing a Song of Docklands, a project four years in development, featuring songs from the communities of East Wall, Ringsend, Sheriff Street, North Wall and Pearse Street, was written by professional composers and local residents guided by the noted conductor David Brophy. The songs celebrate the identity, history and unique characteristics of the village of Ringsend, the heritage of East Wall’s former dock workers, the community that live on boats near Pearse Street, and the hopes and dreams of local schoolchildren.

In Creative Places Darndale, which is funded by the Arts Council and Dublin City Council, artists who live locally work alongside visiting artists, and they produced their second Made in Darndale festival last weekend, from 26 to 28 May. It was headlined by the great Jerry Fish, and the festival demonstrates all of the values that Dublin City Council wants to bring to arts in community settings: excellence of process and performance, inclusion, diversity and equality.

When Dublin City Council speaks of community arts, it is usually referring to a community located in a particular place, and the dynamic expression of its identity through the art forms of theatre, the visual arts, music, dance, spectacle, circus, opera, literature and film and much more. The word community itself, when used in this context, refers to the people who live and work in and visit a particular place. There has never been a more important time, in a changed and changing city, to provide opportunities for artistic expression that seeks to be of a high standard, diverse, inclusive and sustainable.

Dublin City Council’s submission sets out four best-practice examples of the values, programming and buildings owned by Dublin City Council: Axis Ballymun, an award-winning arts centre; the work of artist Fiona Whelan with young people in Rialto; the arts in mental health festival First Fortnight; and the Creative Places Darndale project referred to above. These projects show that major partnerships with agencies like Creative Ireland, the Arts Council, local communities and Dublin City Council are the key critical success factors.

The current Dublin City Council arts plan looks at how people and communities engage with the arts. There are professional practitioners like artists, curators, and producers. There are those who join a choir. There are those who use the arts primarily as a platform for learning and self-development. There are audiences, and those who encourage diverse audiences. Críochnóidh mé go luath mar tá mo chuid ama rite. Go raibh míle maith agaibh as an deis seo.

An Cathaoirleach

I thank Mr. Yeates, and I now call Ms Ann Doherty of Cork City Council.

Ms Ann Doherty

I thank the Chair. On behalf of myself and my colleagues who are in the room - Ms Michelle Carew, arts officer, and Ms Siobhán Clancy, assistant arts officer with special responsibility for community arts - we thank the committee for inviting us here to address this important topic from a local authority point of view. Cork City Council recognises the importance of the arts in local development and resources a significant investment in communities across the city. This commitment to the arts is embedded across the city council’s policies including our city development plan, which is the first of what will be three successive development plans that will oversee the growth of Cork as a city of international scale as per targets of the national planning framework, Ireland 2040. The city’s population is set to grow by over 120,000 people to 335,000 people by 2040.

Cork City Council’s five-year arts and cultural strategy pursues a vision for this growing city as one where art and artists thrive. It seeks to develop Cork as a city for artists and to put arts and culture at the centre of a vibrant, just and progressive city. We are building from a strong foundation. Our established arts and cultural institutions, organisations and festivals sustain a vibrant arts ecology. This supports artists, creates outstanding arts experiences, embraces the city’s diverse public and visitors alike, and advances the city’s national and international reputation. A European City of Culture in 2005, Cork ranked second among 79 cities for cultural participation and attractiveness in the European Commission’s cultural and creative cities monitor in 2019.

Along with local organisations and agencies, we maintain key partnerships with the Arts Council of Ireland and the Government’s Creative Ireland programme, working to deliver on our shared objectives for local arts development and community creativity respectively. Since the drafting of Cork city’s first arts and cultural strategy back in 2003, the council has developed and resourced a community arts specialism as central to its arts service, and this underpins the quality of initiatives as detailed in our submission to the committee across areas including community arts, arts and disability, intercultural arts, arts and health, and arts and older people.

The community arts specialism at Cork City Council reflects a standard in service delivery that situates the arts within a critical human rights framework. Our strategic goal, arts for everyone, recognises the importance of freedom to participate in the cultural life of the community, and aims to encourage and enable more people across all of the city’s community to access and enjoy art.

Key considerations for local arts development evident in the experience of Cork City Council include the need to support and encourage inclusive and accessible arts opportunities that reflect the full diversity of the city demographics. We are also cognisant of the need for increased arts infrastructure, in particular accessible arts workspaces, to support the sustainability of arts provision in line with city growth. Finally, we would like to welcome the increase in funding thresholds for public art commissions under the per cent for art scheme, and we note the significant opportunity for local arts development therein.

An Cathaoirleach

I thank Ms Doherty, and finally we will go to Mr. Kieran Kehoe of Waterford City and County Council.

Mr. Kieran Kehoe

I am a director of services with Waterford City and County Council. I am accompanied by my colleague, Ms Jane Cantwell, who is our head of arts and culture and our city and county librarian as well. I thank the committee for its invitation, and look forward to assisting in discussions on the development of local and community arts through our experiences in Waterford.

Waterford City and County Council has a long tradition in acknowledging the pivotal role of the arts and culture in supporting communities across our city and county. This is reflected in the substantial investment by Waterford City and County Council across a range of festivals and supports to artists, arts organisations and venues.

It is also reflected in the long-term sustainability of many of the festivals and events that take place throughout the year. Support for the arts service, the library service, Creative Ireland and our ongoing investment in developing and sustaining a thriving cultural quarter in the centre of Waterford city has created a vibrant range of supports for professional and amateur arts practitioners, individuals and community groups in Waterford.

Waterford's overall allocation for festivals for 2023 is €1.55 million. In 2022, five significant festivals - we term them "flagship festivals" - were approved by the council, guaranteeing them funding for a period of three years. Our highly successful winter festival, Winterval, the street art festival run by Spraoi, which is now in its 31st year, the unique and highly regarded Blackwater Valley Opera Festival, the thriving West Waterford Festival of Food and the Waterford Walls Festival have all been designated as flagship festivals. Council support has been critical to the success and recognition of these festivals at national and international levels.

Waterford City and County Council excels in the development and provision of arts programmes that go on to have a long-standing influence on the community and beyond. These are managed through our arts office, the cultural quarter and our library service. Libraries have a particularly unique place in our communities across the county as venues, facilitators and hosts for artistic activity and free access to the arts, literature and many programmes and events. Through the arts office, more than €90,000 is allocated annually to arts practice grants, which directly support artists and organisations. Waterford Youth Arts, the Waterford Healing Arts Trust and many others are supported and mentored through the arts office. Arts venue funding for a number of important venues such as the Theatre Royal, Garter Lane, the GOMA Gallery and the Coastguard Cultural Centre in Tramore was increased to more than €170,000 for 2023. Significant investment in Waterford city's cultural quarter is yielding results, with the reimagining of buildings in the area into community and cultural hubs, work spaces for creative industries and the development of a new art house as studios and residential spaces for artists. This has been supported significantly through the urban regeneration and development fund, URDF, capital funding programme. The Waterford Gallery of Art's move to the cultural quarter provides access to Waterford's municipal art collection at the heart of the city's cultural offering.

Our submission has outlined key projects covering the areas of interest to the committee, including arts and older people, arts and cultural diversity, arts and health and our support for under-represented communities. The volume, quality and reach of these projects across a wide demographic speak for themselves. In Waterford, our ongoing investment in festivals and a range of cultural, creative and artistic programmes is an indication of our belief in their value in building cohesive and sustainable local communities. Where funding becomes available, for example, under local live performance programme schemes over the past two years, our teams have risen to the challenge and provided not only spectacular public events such as the Winter Firedance, but also supported artists, performers and technicians at a time when they most needed that financial support. We have been doing this for a long time and intend to continue doing it for a long time more.

An Cathaoirleach

I thank Mr. Kehoe. Colleagues have been informed of their speaking slots. I call Senator Warfield.

Senator Fintan Warfield

I thank the witnesses for joining us. Céad mile fáilte. I welcome the committee's work on this matter. Arts is built on community activity. It starts in school and at home with friends and family. Consequently, cultural activity is built on community activity. As such, the committee's focus on local art is timely and welcome.

I wish to address a couple of significant issues in the context of community art, namely, public art or murals and access to workspaces for artists in our cities and towns across the country. Both issues can fall under the umbrella of creating space for artists. In my city, the Dublin City Council development plan recently made reference to a cultural space in new developments. That was welcome, but there is a caveat, in that it will be dependent on a market that has driven artists out of existing properties and workspaces and, in terms of housing, has driven them to other cities abroad, including Berlin. Will Mr. Yeates discuss what is needed from artists' spaces? According to Dublin City Council's recent audit, there are 2,500 artists in the city but only 529 workspaces for them. In addition to the development plan, what will the council's response be to this issue? Is the council committing to the Dean Art Studios permanently providing workspaces for artists?

Regarding public art, murals are a brilliant genre for artists to respond to what is happening in a city. They create a spontaneous city or town where everything can often seem commercial. They create an element of surprise in our towns and cities. Today's session is useful in getting a sense of the approaches of the different local authorities to public art and murals. Later, an artist will tell us that the current practice of permissions is inconsistent and differs depending on eircode and local authority. Will the representatives from Waterford, Dublin and Cork tell us how they approach the issue of public art and the granting of permission for same? Does Mr. Yeates have data on the number of organisations that Dublin City Council has complained to about public art erected on their properties? He mentioned that the council regularly agreed to the installation of murals. Is the council the only authority that can commission public art and is it illegal in every other instance?

I could probably have confined my questions a little better.

An Cathaoirleach

No, I am sure everyone got their thrust. Would Mr. Yeates like to commence? Any of the witnesses who have something to say in response to Senator Warfield's questions can join the conversation.

Mr. Ray Yeates

There were general observations and specific questions, and I will address those. There will be good news around artists' workspaces in the next couple of weeks. I have been engaged in this area for at least six years. There is an acknowledged deficit. Anyone who works in the arts is well aware of artists' lack of economic power. When it comes to rent, how does someone address his or her lack of economic power? This is a great area in which the Government could intervene and try to incentivise certain types of building. In what is a very competitive market, artists have been marginalised. That has been the case for some time.

It has been important for us to identify and buy or otherwise secure buildings or to see whether we could use buildings of our own. We are also dealing with significant demands from other sectors for the temporary and permanent use of buildings. There is no arts emergency – it is difficult to create one – so artists will easily find themselves being pushed away by short-term concerns.

To answer the specific question about Chatham Row, this is a place where Dublin City Council moved quickly to put in artists for temporary use, but it is important there is a process. I receive complaints all the time from individual artists saying they never had a chance to apply for use of a building and that it seemed to have been assigned in a certain way, so we are going to have an open call. An open call is our best practice way of working on a building. In the case of the Filmbase building, which acquired new tenants recently, there was an open call, with a lot of applications, rounds and transparency. For Chatham Row, there will be an open call before the end of the year. It is a short-term licence that Press Up is under in Chatham Row. That is the simple answer to that question.

I am joined by the official who deals with all the street art permissions, Ms Maher. I will transfer to her to deal with those specific questions.

Senator Malcolm Byrne

I thank the witnesses for attending. It is appropriate that we thank local authorities for all the work they do in the arts. It is about not just the funding, which is important, but also the supportive staff and the networking that is done. I certainly see it in Wexford, where I am based. We have got advice from Waterford City and County Council, which has worked on the Waterford Walls project, about a lot of the murals that have been produced in Wexford. There are ways we can work around it.

All the members of this committee are passionate about the arts. At the end of this process, we want to produce a report that will influence Government policy on how we can support local and community arts. It is about trying to support what arts officers, librarians and others do on the ground but also artists and community and local groups. The reports that come from the committee do impact on Government policy, and while we may come from differing political backgrounds, we tend to work in a collegial way. I would like the report to recognise the work being done by local authorities in strengthening the work of local arts officers, in particular. Are there specific recommendations for national policy decisions the witnesses think will help the councils in their work?

My next question relates to access for those from socioeconomically disadvantaged groups. There is often a false perception that some elements of the arts are elitist. What are the local authorities doing to target disadvantaged groups? Are there policy issues they think we could address? Space is one, but there might be others we could look at.

I am conscious art is universal, but how can we support art in rural communities?

Given that the Waterford local authority's area comprises the county and the city, there may be good examples in that context. From a policy perspective, what can we look at doing to support art in rural areas?

To think about recommendations in the context of how we support voluntary and community artists, in all our communities there are art circles, music groups and drama groups that are rich and vibrant. In terms of national policy, what more can we do to support them directly or through supporting arts offices? Perhaps some of the arts officers or librarians might want to take this question. If they were sitting in front of the Minister, Deputy Catherine Martin, or the Minister for Finance, Deputy Michael McGrath, what would be their core recommendation to address some of these aspects that they would wish to proceed with? I am happy for anyone who wishes to do so to seize the initiative and answer first.

Mr. Kieran Kehoe

I thank Senator Malcolm Byrne for his nice words about Waterford. We recognise that similar excellent work is being done in County Wexford. The way we have been looking at this in Waterford, over about a decade or so now, is in a context where we have two hats. One is the regulatory aspect from the planning perspective. This will always be there, and these issues must be identified and dealt with on a case-by-case basis. We took a different approach in respect of looking at this as an opportunity to showcase artists and what they can produce, and also as an opportunity for our city to become the canvas, if we wish to call it that, for quality street art. That is what we have achieved. A few mistakes were made at the start, and we will not say any different.

Through a collaborative approach, between ourselves and Waterford Walls in particular, and now the arts project nationally and internationally, we have developed this real partnership approach. That approach involves ourselves, the Walls Project, Waterford Walls, the owners of buildings and the neighbours. As my colleague from Dublin city stated, we use this partnership process from the perspective of providing the planning consent for these developments. That is one of the reasons why we now have, as I mentioned earlier, Waterford Walls as a flagship festival. Through this programme, we identify the approximately 25 to 30 walls annually that will be the locations for public art installations. The agreement in this regard sets out quite a few terms and conditions regarding what can be put on the walls and placed in the various locations. There can be no logos or political statements because that is not what this is about. This is about street art. Yet we are not impinging upon the artistic creativity of the artists involved.

We think this is going quite well. The success we have had in the city led us to roll out this festival into our more rural parts. Four of our smaller towns across west Waterford, as I would call it, have had the benefit of public art installations on some buildings in those towns and villages. We did this because we wanted to see this as an all-Waterford endeavour. Public street art is not exclusive to city environs. This initiative has been very much welcomed politically and, more importantly, by the communities in those towns and villages where these installations have gone in. I ask my colleague, Ms Cantwell, to talk about how we get art into the social and demographic areas mentioned.

Ms Jane Cantwell

Regarding providing access to the community, we find collaboration among ourselves is crucial. We have our Creative Ireland team, the arts offices and the libraries. We are all working towards the same aim, which is to provide access to people who may be a little isolated from the main towns and cities. We have different programmes in Waterford. The Waterford Healing Arts Trust and the arts office worked together to provide access for people. The project was called "Art at the Kitchen Table". It literally involves going into people's homes when they have illnesses or issues with accessibility.

I echo the words of Ms Cantwell. Partnership is enormous. I refer to drawing from partners who would have on-the-ground knowledge, including through community development projects that are working every day with the experience of those who are affected, and creating opportunities to facilitate and to support, which is what we do within the arts office. It involves engaging with people who have the lived experience. For example, in Cork city, only last Friday we were supportive of the anti-racism youth-led summit where simple, practical measures that young people encounter as barriers in their participation in the areas such as transport can be addressed by means of a cross-sectoral partnership approach.

We also acknowledge the role of various Departments in providing access to the arts through the Creative Ireland Programme, as Ms Carew mentioned. I also take the example of the of the Supporting Traveller and Roma, STAR, project, through the Department of Education, which has been supporting participation in schools through creativity by young Traveller and Roma children. That is a pilot project. It is coming to end now. It has been extremely successful in Cork, not only in engaging the young people directly who participated in it but also in influencing other arts organisations and practitioners across the city to see how they can take those inclusive values and strategies within their programmes. I refer, for example, to Music Generation, which has been actively engaging with the young participants of STAR. They are discovering together how music programmes across the city might be more inclusive in order to ensure a level of diversity. As I said, the key is partnership and I also echo the longitudinal approach.

An Cathaoirleach

Mr. Yeates is offering.

Mr. Ray Yeates

To answer the Senator's question about what specifically could the committee do, one should start to embed the arts outside the arts into agencies, such as the HSE, Tusla and local development organisations. Some of the most valuable conversations we have are with people outside the arts. If developers have to respond to the 5% requirement for creative and cultural, they often come to the office and ask what is this and how do they do it. One can have all kinds of amazing conversations. One should ring people from outside the arts into the arts. The function of most arts officers is to act developmentally. One should provide budget resources and support and a mandate to go and engage together, and that will really grow. For example, we were involved in projects around hip-hop and suicide prevention that were funded by the HSE. This is the kind of place the committee needs to go.

Deputy Malcolm Byrne

On the Per Cent for Art scheme, roads engineers in Wexford County Council suddenly became very engaged, even though it may not have been traditionally an area they would have focused on.

An Cathaoirleach

I will give Mr. Rainey the last word on this. Then we have to move on.

Mr. Michael Rainey

Obviously, the local government sector has been at the centre of the expansion of arts for the past 40 years. The level of local authority investment continues to grow in that space. What we are able to achieve on the ground we do in the main with the assistance of Arts Council, which provides us with programming funds.

The committee can see in the arts officers we have here today there is a huge appetite to do more. There is a huge appetite to reach out. If there was a restraint - I do not believe it is a policy restraint - it is probably a funding restraint. The more programme funding that is provided to the sector to reach out, the better. We have the infrastructure there. We have arts teams. We have culture teams in every local authority area. There is huge appetite and enthusiasm among arts officers to deliver programmes. The more programme funding we get, the more the delivery there is and the more ability we have to reach out to other communities, such as disadvantaged communities and people who are hard to reach in terms of the arts conversation.

An Cathaoirleach

I thank Mr. Rainey. Senator Cassells is next.

Senator Shane Cassells

I thank the Cathaoirleach and I welcome all our guests. It has been an interesting debate. I thank our guests most sincerely for their work.

Having been a councillor for 17 years, I would be unashamedly pro-local government and the work that local authorities do. As Mr. Rainey has said, that the local authorities make up the second biggest source of funding for the arts should not be underestimated. Indeed, I remember working with a former county manager in Carlow, who was our town manager, Mr. Joe Crockett, a Cork man, who was instrumental in delivering the Solstice Arts Centre in Navan when I was mayor of Navan and in making sure that we got the budget, etc., in place with the help of the then Minister for Arts, Heritage, Gaeltacht and the Islands, Síle de Valera, to achieve that. When one has good people in local government, great things can happen in a town. Local government is probably the driving force in that regard.

I welcome everyone and thank them for the work that they do. I remember interviewing Mr. Yeates on the work he spearheads in Dublin when I was a journalist many years ago.

Mr. Rainey mentioned the rural regeneration fund. This day last week we welcomed the Minister for Rural and Community Development, Deputy Humphreys, to Meath to open the new theatre, cultural and library centre, which cost €9 million, in Trim. We also opened St. Kinneth's centre in Ballivor, a rural village in south Meath, which was a disused falling-down church of Ireland that was 200 years old. That is now a new cultural space in a tiny village in the south of the county. The funding in this regard is provided from the rural regeneration fund. It is a little like what Mr. Yeates said in terms of thinking outside of the arts, which means that instead of the Minister for Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media, Deputy Catherine Martin, being involved, the Minister, Deputy Humphreys, is delivering. This is a new source of funding. Those are two projects opened in Meath last week at a cost of over €10 million. We have opened two new cultural spaces in those places. That is significant.

I want to ask the CCMA about the co-ordination in other counties regarding the great work everyone here today is doing. That work is clearly evident. We asked practitioners from the Arts Council and others here a couple of weeks ago the counties that are not doing so well. How can the standard that those here are setting in their various counties be achieved elsewhere?

Mr. Michael Rainey

Senator Cassells is correct. There are huge funding opportunities from Government at present, whether it be the via the rural regeneration and development fund or urban regeneration. We also have a building acquisition measure where we can take derelict properties and provide artists' spaces or facilities or cultural spaces within our towns. There are a mass of planning processes going on in many towns in Ireland under town and village renewal scheme where they are looking at the fabric of the town and how can we build in an artists' space into that vision for the future of the buildings.

While there are lots of capital funding and lost of opportunities, one of the challenges for local authorities is that it is a sustainable model and that when we develop a cultural space or an artists' space, there is still funding there to keep the lights on. One of the challenges we are experiencing as a sector is the existing infrastructure. Where we have theatres, galleries and all kind of artists' spaces, they are experiencing increased costs. Post Covid, there is a reduced footfall and they are coming back to local authorities looking for additional support. That is a challenge, particularly for the smaller rural authorities, in terms of the budget provision. Any expansion of our infrastructure has to be matched by the capacity of local authorities to be fund the day-to-day operational maintenance costs of these units.

Local authority by local authority, there are different budgetary landscapes. Some local authorities are better off than others. Some local authorities are better able to respond to the needs of the arts than others. Then there are obviously conflicting demands on each local authority, whether it is the extent of the urban area that it has to provide for or whether it has a marine environment to provide for. Every budget process in every local authority is different. It is not for me to determine that it is appropriate there is one level of funding for a local authority because there are different challenges within each local authority.

I completely agree with the Senator that there is a major opportunity at present. In the context of the Government's town centre first policy, we look at our town centres, renew them and increase footfall. There is huge ambition in local government in that space. There is only one caveat, namely, that we have to make sure that whatever we are building will be sustainable into the future and that we are not looking at it only in terms of the first year and of somebody cutting the ribbon to open it; we are also looking to the next 35 years.

Deputy Shane Cassells

Absolutely. Mr.Yeates made a really interesting point in respect of embedding beyond what we perceive normally as the arts.

Does he believe that should happen on a legislative basis? There were people from the arts community in here a couple of weeks ago who were calling for that. Mr. Yeates referred to the HSE. Does he have other examples where he sees that happening and where it could be further improved?

Mr. Ray Yeates

There are three parts to everything. There are the aspirations and, unfortunately, if we are always dealing with aspirations, we will keep dealing with aspirations. They have to be translated into policy and then they have to be implemented. People get stuck in one space or the other. Arts people need to be embedded at the point of planning, not just afterwards. In the case of the Dublin edge, there will be 50,000 new houses in that area. What arts infrastructure is planned? Will we have large areas of the city without cultural institutions? Will it be after everything else is done that we try to fit the arts in somewhere? It will not work that way. There will be a tremendous amount of compromise buildings and compromise places which are under-resourced because it is an afterthought. We need to bring it into the planning process, as we are trying to do in the development plan.

I am sorry to speak against the local authorities but we sometimes need nimbler structures. Dublin founded a culture company after our bid for the European Capital of Culture that perhaps is not as constrained by procedure and approach, and that can get out and work at the capillary. That is what we are talking about now: we are talking about a boxing club engaging with an artist. Sometimes, we need a nimbler structure to do that. Those things can be embedded and instead of drawing down public art as being an “if you remember to do it” kind of thing, it could be said that it must be drawn down. We want to see that.

Senator Shane Cassells

To go back to Mr. Rainey, and having listened to what Mr. Yates said, from my time going through many development plans as a councillor and looking at new areas being developed, and from the sustainable point of view, we need that across the board, not just with arts, but in terms of sporting facilities, educational facilities and so on. I have seen it so many times with planners. Planners are good people, but an engineer, for example, might think a particular way and will draw a box and state that is where the sports pitch might be. It comes down to who is going to operate it and who is going to be the club or the arts committee that is going to occupy that space. Those are the discussions. That is the benefit of the discussion here today in this committee room in that it then permeates down into council chambers.

Waterford and Kilkenny are great examples of the cultural art that exists in the very fabric of the city. We tried to do something similar in Navan, where I am from. Shane Donnelly, our late town clerk who tragically passed away ten years ago, started an audio walking tour and, having access to money from the then arts scheme, created a walking tour trail around the town, with an audio tour for people as they went around. In terms of the improvement or the roll-out of that, as Senator Malcolm Byrne said, there are many fine pieces of art lobbed onto the side of motorways. It was great that it was being used for the arts community and great that it was being done. We had a couple of creative managers in Navan who took those monuments and walked down into the centre of town to find better locations, and they are seen by and enjoyed by far more people. I ask Mr. Kehoe to give a refinement of that. Waterford is a great example of a cultural space in terms of the Viking Quarter and so on, and other towns would aspire to be as good as it is.

Mr. Kieran Kehoe

I thank the Senator for that commentary. It does not happen overnight. We have been implementing this plan for decades. It has been led by our numerous chief executives. In particular, our current chief executive in the past 15 years has really driven forward the delivery of a very strong and vibrant city centre. The culture and arts piece is central. To go back to the Senator’s comment on planning - and I have planning as my area as well - what we are trying to do now is create places and communities where people can live and that they can experience, not just housing and all the different infrastructure. It is where people can really live and have a good quality of life. That is our main aim. However, that does not happen overnight. Waterford has had massive regeneration over the last 15 to 20 years, but it has been done in an overall planned way. It has been led by our architects, who have been engaging with our cultural team, engaging with our head of museums, engaging with our infrastructural teams, so we are creating this overall sense of a place and space which provides that vibrancy in which all parts of our society succeed, but particularly through our arts and culture piece.

The Senator mentioned the Viking Quarter and the numerous museums, but that has been developed over years. A more recent one is the Museum of the Irish Wake, which opened last week. It is a continuous piece of growing the offering. We found that as that offering has grown, we are bringing in more people and people want to be part of that success. It is about us creating that culture of wanting to be supportive of the artists and those creative people who can really deliver.

On the Senator’s point regarding the trail, using Waterford Walls as an example, people will obviously see all the beautiful buildings and the way they impact, but there is now a QR code on the bottom of each one and a Waterford Walls app. If people click on that, they will get the full story of the artist and what their thoughts were, and it will lead to the next one. There is this trail around it, so it is not just the beautiful piece of art that people see but a full story is being told as it weaves through the city in general and the city centre. We are then linking that with our other offerings, whether it be the medieval museum, silver museum or time museum. It all comes together as one piece, rather than each individual piece.

That is led by us, as the management team and senior leaders in an organisation, and it is not being done in isolation. It is done as part of the bigger picture. Referencing back to what Ms Doherty and others have said, the development plan sets that tone, along with our arts plans and how they integrate.

Deputy Shane Cassells

It is a credit to all. On that whole aspect of culture, Ms Carew used the term that there needs to be a step change. Does she mean a step change in attitude at national level or what does she mean?

Ms Michelle Carew

No, it is the fact our society is changing and the demographic of our society is changing, and how our arts are governed and managed and who they are for needs to move alongside that. I say that positively because I see major effort and engagement with that among the arts organisations, artists and public bodies that are operating in this space. It is acknowledging that this is really important work a. With the new census data coming out, we see it even more starkly. It is just that we keep in step.

On the matter of public art, I wanted to acknowledge the huge opportunity in the redevelopment of the present arts scheme and the increasing thresholds, and acknowledge that it is apparent that Government policy on public art is being developed. It is really important that that policy takes account of the full potential of public art beyond the notion of monumental artworks on roadsides, but also that those artworks can be any form of art, of any duration, and that they should have at their centre public engagement and create opportunities for artists to make work and to be employed. That is going to be extremely opportune, particularly in the context of a city like Cork, where there is a major amount of capital development planned. The potential there is massive.

Deputy Shane Cassells

I thank everybody for their work.

Mr. Seán McKeown

As Kilkenny was mentioned, I want to add to some of the comments Mr. Kehoe made in respect of placemaking. We have certainly found that when integrating the arts, particularly public art, into the design of our towns and villages, the public spaces, the public realm and that whole placemaking element is really important, and we are beginning to see the economic dividend. I am not going to mention any particular company but we recently got feedback from an inward investment into Kilkenny. It was very pleasing to hear from the senior management that one of the contributory factors to the decision they made to come to Kilkenny was the fact that the public realm blew them away, as well as that whole placemaking piece. This was a place they could come to that respected its traditions, respected its local art forms and celebrated that. The public realm that we have now is designed in such a way that the festivals we run throughout the year can be run in our open spaces and public spaces. They witnessed that and that was one of the contributory factors to their decision. This was not just a place like any other town in Ireland, where careers could be built. This is where we could have a quality of life and invest in futures. They could see what the local authority had done in that regard. The dividends are clear. The economic dividend from the investment that is made through the arts will be realised, and Kilkenny is evidence of that.

An Cathaoirleach

I thank all of the witnesses for their presentations. I have some questions. We could drill down into so much detail on the fabulous projects. If my staycation did anything for me, it got me personally down to Waterford to see the Waterford Walls and I have been to Kilkenny city and all of those lovely places to see the great work that is happening on the ground.

We know how transformative the arts can be of our main streets, particularly in rural towns and villages. It is incredible to see the list of schemes and programmes local authorities are implementing, including Our Rural Future, the town centre first policy, urban and rural regeneration projects and the town and village renewal scheme. Every time I go to see one of those schemes being launched, what stands out most to me is how the arts play a hugely important part in the project, whether that is designing a civic space in which artists can work, creating murals or providing outdoor performance spaces. We are all thinking much more about those aspects. Our local authorities have done incredible work right across the country. These developments are all part of our tourism product and will be there to enjoy for the people who come to visit.

Will Mr. Yeates say more about the project relating to hip-hop and suicide prevention that he mentioned briefly? He nailed the issue when he spoke about the need to embed the arts beyond the arts, in the education system, education and training boards, the HSE, Tusla and all the other bodies. That would bring added value to those arms of the State and would really make the arts matter in those areas.

Will any of the witnesses comment on the education aspect and what their experience has been in working with ETBs, further education organisations and so on? Do any of them have any experience of working with the creative schools or local arts partnership projects? I understand three local authorities around the country have rolled out those types of pilot projects. I will go to Mr. Yeates first with those questions.

Mr. Ray Yeates

A few years ago, the HSE promoted an assist programme whereby young people at risk could be identified. One of the great ways of identifying such young people is by engaging them in a creative activity. We can look at who is engaging, how they are engaging and what they are talking about outside the main activity. All the arts facilitators were trained in the assist programme and then ran the programme, in collaboration with the HSE, very successfully. Having said it was successful, it also was sad to see a lot of cases identified and a lot of people referred. A large number of agencies are looking for solutions. There can sometimes be an unease in the arts about being implemented, so to speak, for the purpose of providing solutions. As long as the quality of the art is good, I do not mind if it is also supplying a lot of other social needs, such as developing confidence and encouraging people to have a greater spirit. The assist programme is one particular example of how that can be done. There are many more. Once an artist starts to work with a kind of emotional intelligence inside certain areas, that will have a big effect outside of the arts work itself. The programme I mentioned was one specific example of that.

Ms Melanie Scott

The role of local authorities as brokers is really important. The education sector is an area with which we work directly across a range of schemes. The Cathaoirleach asked specifically about the ETBs. The Music Generation programme is an initiative on which most local authorities are working with ETBs locally. It has transformed music education across the country and has been a very fruitful partnership. Part of our role is to encourage and enable that type of engagement.

Regarding creative schools and local education centres, there is the teacher-artist partnership, TAP, programme and the bringing live arts to student and teachers, BLAST, programme. We are often the matchmaker between the artists and the education programmes. It is a role we very much play right across the country. We touched on rural arts access earlier. In my area in Tipperary, our arts in education programme is a really important way of ensuring access to the arts for pupils in small rural schools. The same is being done across the county. We should not underestimate the value of that type of engagement very early in young people's lives in terms of developing their own creativity as artists. It is an important area of our work.

Mr. Kieran Kehoe

The Cathaoirleach asked about the education aspect. My city is synonymous with the Waterford Walls festival. There is fabulous stuff being done in the city, and we work with the festival in a lot of ways. A new playground, skate park and performance space were delivered in Dungarvan last year. Brand-new pieces of concrete are a lovely canvas for certain types of art. We engaged Waterford Walls to work with all the secondary schools in Dungarvan, with arts students being mentored on graffiti and other kinds of art. That type of engagement gives students a sense of ownership as the people using the facilities, as well as giving them insight, an initial mentorship and maybe a push to see they can have a career in this type of creative, artistic space. It is not just about big initiatives. It is about experts like the people from the Waterford Walls festival and the Walls Project working with people of that age, who can be influenced in regard to careers and how to do things right.

Ms Siobhán Clancy

Ms Siobhán Maher

On the legislative position in regard to murals, the planning and development legislation requires that they have planning permission.

The partnership arrangement that is in place is voluntary. The purpose is to facilitate local authorities to create partnerships and allow this to be more agile. It is not an adjudication of the artwork; it is an adjudication of the space and location on which it is going.

An Cathaoirleach

I thank the witnesses. We have had a really fruitful, useful and insightful engagement. I know we are not done here, but it has given us an insight into the witnesses' perspective and more importantly their experience. I thank each of them for coming in here today. I also thank Ms Doherty who joined us online.

Sitting suspended at 3.01 p.m. and resumed at 3.11 p.m.

An Cathaoirleach

We move to the second part of our discussion on the development of local and community arts. This meeting has been convened here in committee room 1. I welcome our guests, who somehow patiently sat through the first session and are here for the second session as well. They are all very welcome. First, I welcome Mr. Joe Caslin, street artist, teacher and activist, and Ms Una Mullally, writer. From Visual Artists Ireland, I welcome Mr. Noel Kelly, chief executive director, and from the Walls Project CLG I welcome Mr. John O'Connell, executive director, and Mr. Gabe McGuinness, festival manager. If they can bear with me, I have a little housekeeping to go through.

The format of the meeting is such that I will invite our witnesses to deliver their opening statements, which are limited to three minutes each. That will be followed by questions from my colleagues. As the witnesses will probably be aware, the committee may publish the opening statements on our web page.

Before we proceed to opening statements, I wish to explain some of the limitations to parliamentary privilege and the practice of the Houses as regards references witnesses may make to other persons in their evidence. The evidence of witnesses physically present or who give evidence from within the parliamentary precincts is protected pursuant to both the Constitution and statute by absolute privilege in respect of the presentations they make to the committee. This means that they have absolute defence against any defamation action for anything they may say at the meeting. They are, however, expected not to abuse the privilege, and it is my duty as Chair to ensure that that privilege is not abused. Where witnesses give evidence remotely from a place outside the parliamentary precincts, they may not benefit from the same level of immunity from legal proceedings as a witness physically present does. Witnesses are also asked to note that only evidence connected with the subject matter of the proceedings should be given and that they should respect directions by the Chair and parliamentary practice to the effect that, where possible, they should neither criticise nor make charges against any person or entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable or otherwise engage in speech that might be regarded as damaging to that person's name or entity. Therefore, if their statements are potentially defamatory in respect of an identifiable person or entity, they will be directed to discontinue their remarks, and I would ask them to do so.

I propose that we now proceed to the opening statements, beginning with Mr. Caslin.

Mr. Joe Caslin

The Public Art Mural (Exempted Development) Bill 2022 is an opportunity to explore where street art meets law. The current practice of permission is inconsistent and different depending on postcode and-or council. It is, as described by Dublin City Council, an onerous and time-consuming process. It is convoluted, inscrutable, costly and lacking in input from other artists. The proposed Bill places significance on the concept of cultural merit. Street art fulfils all criteria as an "art" as set out by the Arts Act 2003. As a medium, however, it is not shown the respect afforded to other mediums by current legislation.

As an Irish street artist, I opened the door for the National Gallery of Ireland to acquire artwork representing people who had never before been represented within our State collection: a little person, a person living in direct provision and a drag queen. The work, entitled "Finding Power", highlighted how gender, ethnicity, sexuality, disability and socioeconomic status continue to be seen as legitimate reasons to take or withhold agency and how, ultimately, we must find a way to create our own power. That message was seen and understood through the medium of street art.

Street art offers opportunities for reflection, contemplation and, perhaps, even empowerment. That is understood within our education system. The year 2017 was the very first year a question on street art appeared on the leaving certificate art examination paper. Since then, it has featured as a question on five separate occasions. To give context, in that same time, street art has appeared as often as questions on the life and the work of Vincent van Gogh. The young people who study art in our schools, thousands each year, are being shown the value of street art and taught to understand the process and appreciate it as a platform for social commentary and awareness. To celebrate this medium only in theory, in an academic context, while tacitly discouraging contributions to the art form via the current legislation is hypocritical.

It is not only art students who understand the value of these works. On 3 October 2019 plumes of smoke were seen billowing from the former Ard Rí Hotel in Waterford city, a large derelict building that sits high on Ferrybank hill, overlooking the city. Two fire engines quickly arrived at the scene. After observing the fire and the conditions, the front of the building was selected as the preferred point for firefighters to enter and extinguish the fire. That entry point would have damaged the artwork installed on the facade three years prior. A second location deemed to be less destructive to the artwork was agreed on and the fire was successfully extinguished. The artwork had become so significant to the local community that the first responders chose to work from a more difficult position to preserve it.

I would welcome legislation that facilitates artists to work with more freedom and less fear of legal retaliation. Authentic expression leads to cultural impact, and without the ability for artists to express themselves without fear of reprisal, the culture of the arts in Ireland will stagnate and suffer.

An Cathaoirleach

I thank Mr. Caslin and ask Ms Mullally to make her opening statement.

Ms Una Mullally

I thank the committee for the opportunity to contribute today. I am going to talk about the broader context regarding the development of local and community arts, specifically with regard to Dublin city, although a lot of the issues pertain to other cities and larger Irish towns. I have been writing about creative culture in Ireland for over 20 years and have observed many changes, positive and negative, with particular attention to emerging scenes, fringe culture, how local art scenes emerge and how community is built or dissipates at a local urban level.

We first have to conceive of the cultural activity and creative wellness of any area in Ireland as an ecosystem. In order to function, never mind flourish, that ecosystem requires affordable housing, studio and work space, a wide variety of performance venues, funding, local authorities that are flexible and engaged and facilitate creative activity rather than seeking to curtail it, and planning and leasing mechanisms that facilitate artists and creative collectives.

Unfortunately, in Dublin city, while at a superficial level there is of course creative activity, the vibrancy of hyper-local, local, underground, DIY and fringe creative activity and communities has come under the kind of pressure that, if we continue with the ecosystem framework, can be characterised as resulting in an endangered habitat. Without enriching the more nebulous, less commercial, less visible, more creatively risky, often embryonic arts scenes and the people who operate within them, the more mainstream creative activity they can evolve into enters into a stasis.

In recent years, particularly emerging from the recession, the uptick in commercial development that focused on chain high-street retail, office blocks, purpose-built student accommodation, hotels and aparthotels and other developments that add little to nothing to the arts and culture ecosystem squeezed out artists' studios and workspaces and in some cases literally demolished existing theatres and other cultural spaces. This coincided with a dramatic escalation in the cost of rent, meaning artists - typically lower earning - and people engaged in creative activity could no longer live in our city centres, which disconnects them from the site of their potential creativity, detracting from the creative liveliness of where we live. That hollowing out has not been replenished. In a healthy ecosystem there is a natural evolution, turnover and growth that happens organically. When parts of that ecosystem are broken to the degree that they have been, there is a collapse of authentic cultural activity, street life, character, variety and a resulting atmosphere of soullessness.

We are now at the point where we need several interventions to address this cultural decay. That includes new capital funding models including co-operative models for artists to own buildings and spaces, addressing the planning restrictions on street art, seizing on the abundance of vacant office space for cultural community use, investigating the potential of subsidised artist housing, legislation such as the public art Bill and lots more.

I am happy to answer questions about how retail and commercial vacancy can be utilised for artists, the decline of studio space in the city, positive examples of transforming vacant buildings to create artist communities that add to the capital's cultural infrastructure, and potential affordable artist housing models.

An Cathaoirleach

I thank Ms Mullally. I now invite Mr. Kelly to make his opening statement.

Mr. Noel Kelly

I thank the Chair for the opportunity to bring the voice of the individual visual artist and visual arts organisations to the committee. We provided a very detailed document prior to the meeting, so I will just summarise the content into key points we believe need attention to strengthen supports for local arts.

First, I will say a little about us. Visual Artists Ireland, VAI, is the representative body for professional artists across the island of Ireland and Irish artists living abroad. With around 3,250 members, we have offices in Dublin and Belfast and operate our services across the country. We believe VAI must be active where artists work and live, meaning that we deliver as far south as the Dingle Peninsula and as far north as Inishowen in north Donegal, with all parts in the east and west covered as well.

We offer a range of supports – advocacy, advice, support services, lifelong learning, consultancy and information provision – and operate so that we ensure artists and arts organisations understand we are a trusted space. We are non-political and do not align with any political belief. Our autonomy and independence ensure our work and research can be trusted to be non-partisan.

In our support document presented to the committee, we address the development of local and community arts through the lens of existing local supports and infrastructure. We focus on the impact of local authority arts offices operating within differing policy and funding levels. VAI's work at grassroots level reflects the voice of individual artists, including the silent majority who do not feel comfortable being part of campaigns and consultations. We also touch upon the impact of specific projects and initiatives from a variety of locations around the country.

We acknowledge that work at local level is significantly dependent upon the importance placed on culture by local government. A variety of initiatives at national level provide additional supports, but, as with all project funding, access is predicated on the ability to understand and prepare detailed applications, to fit within strategic parameters and to have the wherewithal to deliver the programme and provide evidence of a wide range of compliances. These conditions equal access, in that any qualified person or organisation may apply, but they are far from equitable given the range of career and experience levels across the artist community and the range of art practices outside the realm of contemporary art practice. We therefore suggest that all local funding, and, in an ideal world, national funding, take this into consideration and that funders be requested to ensure balanced strategies are introduced, resourced and financed to allow artists at all career stages and art practices the opportunity to gain supports at a meaningful level.

In speaking of local authorities, we speak of the executive and council members. We acknowledge and recognise that given the considerable calls on time and resources, local authority arts officers and other relevant officers are operating in an environment where insufficient staff, funding and other resources may have them operating beyond their current capacity. Therefore, each ask is directed at executive and council levels. It is not our purpose to increase already-stretched teams. We offer them our support, acknowledge the work taking place in many local authority areas and ask that greater support be given regarding the authorities' efforts and ability to deliver ambitious and balanced programmes.

We acknowledge there are many discussions around infrastructure, and in this regard we go into some detail in our document. As part of the discussions, we request that all local authorities be asked to ensure all physical infrastructure put in place is based on sustainable funding and security of tenure and that they be enabled to deliver programmes that support artists in a structured manner across a widely diverse range of art practice areas. Such physical infrastructure should include local authority-facilitated spaces as well as artist-led initiatives.

We believe that due to the nature and scale of work that must take place at national and local levels, proper collaboration and outsourcing models are necessary, especially between local government and national resource organisations. We suggest that a formal structure be put in place that allows for structured engagement between local area organisations and the national resource organisations so there will be an efficient and well-researched approach to supports in local areas and artists can gain access to knowledge and experience from inside and outside their local areas.

We know that much has been said about empty spaces and derelict sites. Therefore, all local authorities are asked to create and deliver a detailed strategy that provides an environment that encourages the handover of empty or derelict spaces for permanent use for the arts and by artists. We request that they work on creating a local and national system that addresses precarious leases as they currently stand and look to working with the National Asset Management Agency and any other agencies that may have the ability to engage with developers and landlords in the creation of a permanent and sustainable financial and legal solution to infrastructure provision.

As outlined in our document, the complexity and labour-intensive aspect of funding applications and compliance reporting comprise a serious drain on artists' time and the resources of arts organisations, which, with very small teams, work endlessly to deliver a programme while at the same time complying with requests, engaging in consultation, making applications and producing reports. The duplication in this area is significant. We ask that a cross-departmental committee be set up to investigate a model to replace the complex and precarious annual funding processes across all public bodies and to allow for sustainable funding to be provided to organisations to cover base costs. We give an example of the level of administration that VAI must deliver in any given year while at the same time operating a quality service for artists.

We suggest that a departmental review be undertaken regarding governance reporting and compliance. We recommend a review of the central reporting system used by the UK. This central repository requires organisations to update it once per annum with details of their financial performance and governance.

We ask that all local authorities be requested to ensure funding is sufficient for the meaningful support of artists and arts organisations in their local areas and that funding organisations allow artists from across all disciplines and career levels to engage with a simple application process that understands and respects their ability to make art that is not necessarily in line with current policies and strategic directions at the local level.

We ask that local enterprise development projects be encouraged to consider the balanced experience of communities and engage with cultural organisations, both commercial and non-profit, to develop and deliver their work outside the large cities.

We also ask that SI 375 of 2022, on the European Communities (Artist's Resale Right) (Amendment) Regulations 2022, be enacted in primary legislation, with the suggested adjustments, so it can fulfil the role set for it at both EU and Irish levels and allow Ireland's visual artists to benefit in the way envisioned in the EU directive. I thank the members for their attention.

An Cathaoirleach

I thank Mr. Kelly. I am sure his statement will spark many questions among my colleagues. Finally, I invite Mr. John O'Connell to make his opening statement.

Mr. John O'Connell

I thank the committee on behalf of the Walls Project for this opportunity to speak about the company's work and involvement in community arts.

The Walls Project is a creative arts agency and social enterprise specialising in street art. With a strong community focus, it aims to stem urban degeneration and create social cohesion through active public engagement with mural art. It has four distinct strands of work: the Waterford Walls festival, public art commissions, outreach projects and international exchanges. We exist to create spaces for artists and communities to connect, thrive and engage with art.

We support artists and communities through the commission of site-specific street art, creating colourful, vibrant streets that bring pride of place. We are very committed to operating ethically, with fair treatment and pay for artists. Currently, around 70% of our expenditure goes back into fees for artists and arts workers.

We drive placemaking and harness the potential of street art to democratise art and make it fully accessible. Our purpose is to regenerate urban areas and break down the barriers to accessing art, making it part of people's everyday lives and intrinsic to their sense of place.

The Walls Project grew out of and is best known for its annual international street art festival, Waterford Walls. Now in its ninth year, the company has professionalised and the project has grown to the point where, over ten days in August, 27 artists from 14 countries and five continents will paint 40 murals across Waterford city and county. The festival has a curatorial process that ensures diversity and inclusivity in addition to artistic excellence.

With this kind of growth, the budget has had to expand. The whole enterprise is made possible by financial support from over 40 stakeholders, including the Arts Council, Creative Ireland, the embassies of several countries and now, for the first time, a headline sponsor. We receive considerable support from our local authority, Waterford City and County Council, which has designated Waterford Walls as one of its five flagship festivals. Its support includes financial backing but also logistical help, making the potentially massive task of securing planning consent for 30 public artworks a smooth and streamlined process.

The business model behind all this output is a non-profit social enterprise. Our income includes roughly 25% public funding, with the remaining revenues being generated largely through our work as a commissioning agency for public art. We work year round, nationwide in urban and rural areas. Surpluses generated from this work are then reinvested in community projects such as schools' workshops at primary and secondary level, murals in marginalised or disadvantaged areas and an international youth exchange programme.

An Cathaoirleach

It sounds like it is a busy couple of days in Waterford, on top of everything else.

Mr. John O'Connell

It is busy all year round, yes.

An Cathaoirleach

That is very good. Without further ado, I will hand over to my colleagues. We will start with Senator Warfield if he has some questions in mind.

Senator Fintan Warfield

I have too many notes here at this point. I thank the witnesses for coming before the committee. I really appreciate it, and I know the other members of the committee do also.

I thank Mr. Caslin for his very insightful presentation. In particular, it is a joy to hear reference being made to public art and street art appearing on the leaving certificate as often as questions on the likes of Vincent van Gogh. I know Mr. Caslin lives in Belfast and he has probably worked abroad. Could he give us a sense of how the South compares to the North, or indeed how the island compares internationally, in terms of artists, street art, public art and murals, as well as how they interact with the system? Any insight whatsoever on those issues would be very good to have on the record.

Mr. Joe Caslin

I work predominately in the South. As the Senator said, I am now in Belfast, so I have engaged with the council up there quite a lot over the last year. Internationally, I have travelled from Detroit and Sofia to Australia. My career as a street artist has brought me right across the globe, which is brilliant.

Specific to councils in Ireland, there are three ways that you can make street art. These are through the planning process, hand-in-hand with the council, or on walls. Each of those ways are quite layered. My work is quite different from many other street artists because I use paper and biodegradable paste. I generally tend to look for beautiful heritage buildings. I have done work on Collins Barracks, Trinity College Dublin and the front of the Ulster Museum in Belfast.

If I am looking for planning permission, I will generally have to speak to the local planning officer who will then bring my proposal to the local public art advisory panel. They will meet at certain times in the year. Then, because my work is quite niche, the project will have to be brought to the local heritage officer, who will in turn then bring the proposal to the planning department, who will then have their eight weeks-----

An Cathaoirleach

I am exhausted already.

Mr. Joe Caslin

Yes. Then I have to go to the local roads authority in case I have to close down a road. I will have to pay for that. If I have to close down a road, it will cost on average approximately €2,200. All of that comes with a huge amount of bureaucratic work. I do not know if anyone has recently tried to apply for planning permission, but it is quite a big document. How do you traverse that document as an artist? Dublin City Council even says, as I have said in my statement, that it is an onerous task. They are there to guide you through it, but it can work in other ways.

There is the avenue of working in partnership with a council to receive a planning exemption. This works, but it can be very ad hoc. For example, if I go to Waterford City and County Council, Kilkenny County Council - which was here the other day - and Tipperary County Council, they will all deal with me quite differently, so I will not know what to appreciate or what will be ahead of me when I head down there.

Commissions are, in the main, about being nice. They amplify a specific place. Hard topics are often avoided and when they are chosen, the edges are really rounded off. While this allows quality control, the artists' voices are restricted. I am very wary of advertisements. If a work of street art becomes an advertisement, it will tell you how think and how to act. Similarly, if the only player in the room is the council, the artist will have to act in a very particular way. If that council is quite restrictive, left wing or right wing, you will have to create work that is in that manner.

It depends on the council and it also depends on the person and the relationships, as we saw in the previous session, as well as how those arts offices or art departments engage with planning, and who is there on what specific day.

Senator Fintan Warfield

Does Ms Mullally have any comment on cultures that might exist in councils or in local authorities?

Ms Una Mullally

Yes. From my experience, I will echo what Mr. Caslin is saying, which is that things are very ad hoc. Relationships and working with councils are to be really welcomed in terms of artists getting things over the line.

That also creates a lack of consistency with regard to who gets to make work, how and at what speed they get to do so, and who is facilitated and who is not. The Walls Project is working well with councils around the country, which is to be applauded.

One of the massive issues is that Dublin city does not have the visual vibrancy of cultural activity that other Irish cities have, which is remarkable considering it is the capital and more than half of the practising artists in the country live in Dublin. An adversarial environment and atmosphere seems to colour many artists' experiences with regard to engaging with the council in different ways. When it comes to facilitating art and making a place vibrant and building community around art, celebrating public art and getting it made, much of the issue is not funding. It is about values and culture. We see this in different ways. There is an atmosphere whereby people have to fight for everything. They are existing in a hostile environment in the capital as they try to create and express themselves freely. There are many systemic reasons for that. There are constraints on where artists can paint or work. It is difficult to find a studio or a place to live.

I was struck recently by a conversation involving a group of artists on Richmond Road who were being evicted from their studio in Dublin 3. When they wrote to the council seeking help last summer, they got a response from the assistant chief executive, Richard Shakespeare. I wrote down what he said because I thought it was interesting in terms of how the council speaks to artists who are lower down the ranks. Mr. Shakespeare said that the fact those artists found themselves in an unacceptable position whereby they had to find alternative accommodation and potentially go through an open and transparent process to gain access to city council property was their issue and not the city council's. He went on to say that the belief that the city council was the panacea to those artists' problem was nothing short of astounding. He also stated that he did not see the need to discuss the matter further at that point. That kind of engagement with artists not only upsets the people who are really and genuinely asking for help but it creates a kind of culture and sends out an adversarial message when there is no reason for it. As it happens, that collective of artists ended up finding space in the Phibsborough shopping centre. There are multiple opportunities in the capital and elsewhere for artists to thrive, given the level of vacancy.

Much of the issue does not relate to funding. Public art and all of that stuff can get locked in this funding cycle. Of course, artists are always going to want more funding. Of course, local authorities and central government will always be in that tension. Much of the issue is about the requirement for a shift in attitude. A shift in respect of who is facilitated is evident depending on who the messenger is. For example, the Dean Art Studios on Chatham Row has a meanwhile use licence that was granted by Dublin City Council. It is a fantastic space and an asset to the city. It should be retained. There was no process between the entity looking to lease the building and the council. The council said that the process was waived. As it happens, the people who were trying to lease the building were from Press Up Hospitality Group, a property developer and hospitality operator with considerable resources. We need to ask why it is that a group of artists operating independently and trying to get their practice together and maintain their space were greeted by a particular type of communication by the city's local authority while another entity with considerable resources was essentially allowed to lease a building on a very inexpensive licence. It is great that the building is there, do not get me wrong, but the kind of experience people have in this city, whether fairly or not and overblown or not, adds to a feeling that local authorities are often in enforcement or obstruction mode rather than a mode of facilitation. That makes people fall back from engaging.

Senator Malcolm Byrne

I thank our guests for their testimony and for all of their work, which is important. I want to talk specifically about the Walls Project. I am from Gorey in Wexford and the Walls Project did two amazing pieces there, including a collaboration with Gorey Little Theatre, a voluntary theatre with which I am involved. One of the best aspects of that was the consultation process. It was mostly people with an interest in the performing arts who were talking about what was going on the wall of the building. It was great. It s fair to say there is probably a lot more collaboration in the south east. I certainly think that some of the work the Walls Project has done not just in Gorey but also in Ferns, New Ross and Waterford, has been super. I want to say that to our guests.

The great thing about these committees is that we work in a collaborative way and come up with real recommendations about how we can change or shape policy at local and national level. For the work of our guests, do they have specific recommendations with regard to national policy? Part of that might be on the funding side but are there legislative changes, training or alternative approaches that can be taken? Our guests might talk about that.

Coming from Gorey, I am conscious of the late great Paul Funge, who set up the first arts festival in the country. That legacy continues to live within the community. How do we embed that into a community? Many visual artists are able to do that. Paul Funge certainly did, and his legacy is still there. I am looking for specific recommendations in that regard.

I do not want to get into a row about art on walls and the political context but Mr. McGuinness, Mr. O'Connell or Mr. Caslin might respond to the following point. I love Mr. Caslin's work, and probably share many of his political views. The question is how we strike a balance. Do we allow for somebody with very different political views? What if somebody who does not describe themselves as pro-choice decided to exhibit a pro-life piece of art that is quite graphic? Somebody with very strong right-wing views might decide to exhibit in a particular way. I am not disagreeing with Mr. Caslin but there is always a balance to be struck in respect of freedom of expression. There must be a level of caution. I appreciate that I am moving slightly away from the focus of the meeting but it will inform some of the discussion.

Mr. John O'Connell

I thank the Senator for his kind words about the Walls Project. That community engagement the Senator witnessed in Gorey is very much at the heart of what we do. We try to bring it into our work as much as possible. We seek community buy-in before we create an artwork so that people feel they have a voice and expression, and feel a sense of ownership towards the work that will eventually appear on the wall in front of them. That is an important part of the process. It is not always possible in respect of every single wall but we always try to take into account that people have to live with these art works. It is important that they are on board, insofar as that is possible.

We have quite a happy set-up with the local authority in Waterford at this stage. We have a process of planning consent whereby we are producing 30 to 40 walls each year in Waterford city. If we had to go through planning permission for something like that, it would make the work impossible.

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport and Media debate - Wednesday, 31 May 2023

Development of Local and Community Arts: Discussion (Resumed)

Mr. Michael Rainey

Mr. Ray Yeates

Ms Ann Doherty

Mr. Kieran Kehoe

Mr. Ray Yeates

Ms Siobhán Maher

Ms Siobhán Maher

Ms Siobhán Maher

Ms Siobhán Maher

Ms Siobhán Maher

Ms Siobhán Maher

Mr. Kieran Kehoe

Ms Jane Cantwell

Mr. Kieran Kehoe

Ms Michelle Carew

Ms Siobhán Clancy

Ms Siobhán Clancy

Mr. Ray Yeates

Mr. Michael Rainey

Mr. Michael Rainey

Mr. Ray Yeates

Mr. Kieran Kehoe

Ms Michelle Carew

Mr. Seán McKeown

Mr. Ray Yeates

Ms Melanie Scott

Mr. Kieran Kehoe

Ms Siobhán Clancy

Mr. Kieran Kehoe

Mr. Kieran Kehoe

Mr. Ray Yeates

Ms Siobhán Maher

Mr. Joe Caslin

Ms Una Mullally

Mr. Noel Kelly

Mr. John O'Connell

Mr. John O'Connell

Mr. Joe Caslin

Mr. Joe Caslin

Mr. Joe Caslin

Mr. Joe Caslin

Mr. Joe Caslin

Mr. Joe Caslin

Ms Una Mullally

Mr. John O'Connell

Mr. Noel Kelly

Mr. Noel Kelly

Mr. Noel Kelly

Mr. Noel Kelly

Mr. Noel Kelly

Mr. Joe Caslin

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport and Media debate -
Wednesday, 31 May 2023