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JOINT COMMITTEE ON TRANSPORT debate -
Wednesday, 30 Jun 2010

Road Safety: Discussion

The next item is a discussion with the Keane, Gallagher and Farren families on road safety issues. I welcome Seán and Magdalene Farren, Richard and Kay Keane, and Tommy and Kathleen Gallagher. Before we commence our proceedings, I advise them that witnesses are protected by absolute privilege in respect of their evidence to this committee by virtue of section 17(2)(l) of the Defamation Act 2009. If, however, they are directed by the committee to cease giving evidence on a particular matter and they continue to do so, they are entitled thereafter only to qualified privilege. They are directed that only evidence connected with the subject matter of these proceedings is to be given and that they are asked to respect parliamentary practice to the effect that, where possible, they should not criticise or make charges against any person or entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable. They are also advised that the committee’s remit is limited to making recommendations on broad matters of policy, legislation and departmental or public administration and expenditure. The committee does not have the power to conduct inquiries which may lead to adverse findings of fact or expressions of opinion which adversely affect the good name of named or identifiable individuals who are not Members of either House. Members are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the Houses or an official by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable.

I propose that we hear short presentations which will be followed by a question and answer session.

Mr. Seán Farren

I thank the joint committee for giving us the opportunity to speak today. I am here with my wife, Magdalene, and a number of other families from counties Mayo and Kerry who have lost loved ones as a result of incidents at road works in counties Donegal, Mayo and Kerry. The topic is the failure of local authorities to maintain a safe road infrastructure. It centres on the following issues: road infrastructure safety, including the use of dense bitumen macadam as a final road surface; the lack of safety checks during the maintenance of roads; non-compliance with standards and guidelines of the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government; a lack of accountability for and commitment to the safety of road works; and the failure of Government bodies to act effectively when an incident occurs.

I will briefly describe the events of Sinead's case in the last nine years which will highlight key issues with regard to the last three points I mentioned. On 12 June 2001 Sinead's car went out of control after going over a hump on a road which was covered in loose chippings, the result of work carried out by Donegal County Council that day. There was one small advance warning sign which was lying on an overgrown grass verge. Neither the Garda nor Donegal County Council preserved the scene of the accident, following which Donegal County Council was allowed to erect additional signs and flashing lights and remove the excessive loose chippings by means of a road sweeper. We have learned today that the Garda did not return to the scene until two days after the accident it was completely altered to take photographs and measurements.

Donegal County Council did not report this workplace fatality to the Health and Safety Authority, to which I reported Sinead's death three days later, but no investigation took place. It took us until November 2006, more than five years after the accident, to convince the authority that it was within its remit to investigate the circumstances surrounding our daughter's death. Why should it have been the family's persistence that led to this decision five years after Sinead's death? Why was it left to us to convince the authority of its duty to investigate? Donegal County Council is now challenging in the Supreme Court the legality of the investigation undertaken by the authority, having lost its case in the High Court. So far this process, at serious expense to the taxpayer, has taken two years and could take years to complete. We find it difficult to understand why the county council has refused to co-operate with the Garda and HSA investigations. It withdrew its co-operation from the Garda investigation. We cannot understand what it is that the county council will not divulge to these two agencies of the State.

The original Garda investigation into the incident was, to say the least, minimal. An internal independent Garda review of the initial Garda investigation with instructions "to conduct such further or new investigations and enquiries as are deemed necessary" was started in January 2006. This was completed in February 2007 but we learned only in September 2009 that this reinvestigation found that "grave acts of omission" were committed by Donegal County Council on 12 June, 2001 in the manner in which it conducted its road resurfacing operation on the Malin to Culdaff road, disclosing a breach of section 13 of the Non-Fatal Offences Against the Person Act 1997, namely, reckless endangerment. The Director of Public Prosecutions did not prosecute, however, and we cannot get any explanation for this decision.

Over the past nine years I tried to get information from numerous Departments and Government agencies including: the National Roads Authority, the Departments of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Transport, Justice and Law Reform and Finance, the Office of the Taoiseach, the Road Safety Authority, numerous local authorities, the Health and Safety Authority, HSA, the Garda Síochána, and the Director of Public Prosecutions. To date we have met a series of rejections and claims that responsibility does not lie with these agencies yet no one has been able to inform us where accountability rests. Over the past nine long years we have become aware of many issues in this regard for the Government and EU to address. Despite our best efforts we cannot get any Department to take control of the situation.

At an absolute minimum two things must come out of our presence here today. We want this committee to compel the Government to rectify the situation and to put in place a protocol whereby the families of the bereaved can obtain answers concerning the circumstances and conditions surrounding the deaths of their loved ones and not be subjected to years of grief and uncertainty, filing numerous freedom of information requests trying to find answers. We want the committee to bring in county managers and their relevant senior executives to ask them to account for their actions and their refusal to answer questions to the Garda and their refusal to allow the Health and Safety Authority to do the job the Government is paying it to do. A report on these matters must be placed before the Dáil.

We have tried to give members a brief overview of the position and remain as objective as possible. It is now time for collective action. While we have struggled to get answers to our case, this is a matter of urgent importance and needs to be addressed. This committee must take a lead role and prevent this tragedy from happening to others. It was the ninth anniversary of our daughter's death this month, on 12 June. Surely we are entitled to have someone carry out a full investigation into her death and follow through on the recommendations of that investigation. All that we want are honest answers to our questions. We may not like some of the answers but as long as they are the truth we hope that, knowing the truth and who is accountable, we will get some closure on the circumstances surrounding Sinead's death.

We include some photographs of signage that has been left at road work sites throughout County Donegal.

On behalf of the committee, I offer our deepest sympathy to Mr. and Mrs Farren on the death of Sinead. Mr. Gallagher is making the next presentation.

Mr. Tommy Gallagher

I am here with my wife, Kathleen, and some other families who have lost loved ones as a result of incidents at road works in Ireland. We have been frustrated by officials of national and local authorities in our efforts to get justice for our late daughter, Ashling, and stop similar preventable serious and fatal accidents. We are shocked by the lack of common decency, respect and dignity shown to our daughter by these same officials in their pursuit of self-preservation. We have been betrayed by our Government's culture of cronyism that sustains and nurtures non-accountability. Our Government has reneged on its constitutional obligation to cherish each citizen equally and to value life beyond any other consideration. Our experience from Irish Ministers, Departments and senior civil servants is that the weak and the dead can be sacrificed to preserve the current regime of self-regulation. Self-regulation in these cases has resulted in deaths.

Our hope and purpose is that the intervention from Europe will result in road accidents being investigated in a professional, basic engineering road standard, unbiased and transparent manner. This means that local authorities do not participate in this independent investigation although they can conduct their own investigation. The end purpose of the independent investigation would be to identify causes, primary and contributory, and ensure that mistakes or non-compliances are not repeated; that negligence or non-compliance with safety regulations should be dealt with without exception in the courts.

The topics for discussion include road infrastructure, lack of safety checks, non-compliance with Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government standards and guidelines, lack of accountability and the failure of Government bodies to act effectively when incidents occur. Mr. Farren spoke on the third, fourth and fifth points; I will address the first and second.

I refer to road infrastructure safety, including the use of dense bitumen macadam, DBM, as a final road surface. Dense bitumen macadam base course is designed and approved as an under-surface bituminous construction material that gives the road its strength and shape. It is designed to withstand downward top loading and is never intended or designed to create friction between vehicle tyres and itself. It is manufactured from a softer stone and as a result it smoothes and polishes if it is subject to vehicle traffic wear. The National Roads Authority's directives clearly preclude the use of DBM base or binder course as a running surface and the authority has conveyed in writing that it has not carried out any test on this material to determine its suitability for public use even under severe speed restrictions. There is a long-standing requirement to have this material covered or dressed with an approved finished final running layer. This requirement is widely ignored throughout Ireland. This fact was given in sworn evidence by the Cork county manager in the Circuit Court and the High Court.

These unsafe practices are very often made worse by local authorities actually putting the permanent road line-markings on to the unapproved DBM base course. This conveys to the unsuspecting road user that this is the final, approved, designed for purpose and tested road surface. When this smooth polished surface is wet it becomes lethal. Its smooth surface contains voids which retain water and causes aqua-planing. The only report about road accidents prior to 2006 were generated by the local authorities and hence the truth about road surfaces was never identified and accountability for unsafe road conditions was concealed. In the five years since Ashling died, it is beyond doubt that the Departments of Transport, Justice and Law Reform and Environment, Heritage and Local Government have chosen to renege on responsibility and to deny accountability.

There are three main aspects to safe passage on Irish roads: driver, vehicle, and road or carriage way. In Ashling's case the first and second were proven not to be at fault. We believe No. 3 is the primary cause of this fatal accident and countless others. With regard to the driver, Ireland has stringent regulations for driver certification. Drivers must pass strict practical and theory tests to obtain a licence to drive a vehicle in a public place and there are highly regulated low levels of permitted blood alcohol levels, and so on. With regard to the vehicle, Irish vehicle road worthiness tests are among the strictest in Europe. With regard to road surface, despite having a very high profile, our Road Safety Authority conveniently has no remit over the safety of the road. The RSA’s role is in public safety awareness and the safety of road vehicles and it has achieved progress in these areas. However, it is embracing only part of the criteria necessary to safeguard safe passage on Ireland’s roads. The RSA gives a false sense of security such that if a driver complies with all the safety regulations and his or her vehicle is also compliant, then he or she is in a safe environment when using the country’s roads. Although the two aforementioned factors are imperative to a user’s safety, they become irrelevant if the vehicle travels on an unregulated, unapproved, untested and substandard road surface.

I refer to the lack of accountability for and the need for commitment to the safety of road works. In practice, no one oversees safety at a local authority road works site. Although the National Roads Authority funds all primary and secondary road maintenance and upgrade projects, it does not follow up with inspections on safety or quality. It does not visit sites to verify payment when stage payments are applied for by the local authority. The NRA issues guidelines, directives, specifications on quality and safety but these are ignored throughout the country on a daily basis. The local authorities disregard the NRA rules in the knowledge that they enjoy immunity from prosecution should these omissions cause a fatality. This immunity may not be written in law but it most definitely exists.

The Health and Safety Authority is the only independent organisation prepared to inspect the safety practices of local authorities on road maintenance contracts. However, the local authorities can eliminate this threat to safety checks by simply disbanding the workforce on the works site. They can withdraw labour and plant and leave the road unsafe. As a result, these sites do not meet the description of a worksite and hence a safety inspection which could benefit the workers and the public is eliminated. In our case and Mr. Farren's case, the local authorities are completely resistant to such checks. They believe they are exempt from fulfilling a duty of care to their own workforce or to anyone who is legally inside the parameters of these works areas.

I refer to the fatal road traffic accident of Aisling Gallagher on 22 December 2004. On 22 December 2004 in the course of an 80 km journey, our daughter Aisling unknowingly encountered 1.8 km of DBM, dense bitumen macadam, base course. The final road markings, yellow hard shoulder dashed lines and white centre lines, were laid on this base course, lending a false sense of security to the effect that the road was finished with an approved surface. There was no signage to indicate that the surface was non-standard and that a much lower permitted speed should have been adopted to compensate for the lack of safety, i.e., the skid resistance of the particular road surface. The only sign relating to speed was the then 60 mph national speed limit sign. This unrestricted speed limit together with new road markings just weeks in place on a new road surface indicated that this stretch of road was complete.

After rounding a narrow bend, she encountered a car stopped turning right. We believe she applied her brakes and her vehicle inexplicably crossed over the white line into the path of an oncoming lorry. Her vehicle was pushed backwards for 30 m, more than 98 ft, without either vehicle leaving a tyre mark on the wet glass-like surface. Aisling had neither alcohol nor drugs in her system. Her vehicle had a recent road worthiness certificate. The surface she was travelling on at the time of her death was not designed nor approved to be traversed at any speed regardless of how slow.

When we travelled this same stretch of road the following day, 23 December, to bring Aisling's remains home from the morgue, we travelled through a maze of warning signs and flashing lights. Warning signs indicating "Slow Down" and "Caution: Slippery Surface" were erected throughout the 1.8 km works area. Clearly, Mayo County Council was fully aware of what should have been in place but the guarantee of immunity meant it could ignore safety until an innocent citizen paid with her life for the council's incompetence and the cosy relationship that exists between local authorities and all relevant law enforcement agencies.

The Health and Safety Authority conducted a two-year investigation into the road surface and issued a comprehensive report. The local authority has succeeded in its efforts to have this report excluded from Aisling's inquest. We must go to the High Court to have this decision reviewed. The Director of Public Prosecutions is yet to advise.

The funding body, the National Roads Authority, had paid out the full amount to Mayo County Council for the 1.8 km contract without one site inspection. It was unaware of the road surface being unfinished at the fatal accident scene in December 2004. Had the NRA not funded this ill-managed project resulting in no work been carried out on this stretch of the N59, it is our belief that Aisling would be alive today. The guidelines and directives from the NRA which accompanied the funding should have insured that this booby trap would never exist, but Mayo County Council either did not make itself aware of the guidelines or chose to ignore them. The Cork county manager's District Court and High Court evidence confirms that this unsafe practice is widespread throughout Ireland. We believe it has cost countless lives.

Safety warning signs, although still inadequate, were only put in place after the accident. Despite this non-standard and unapproved surface being in place from September 2004 until mid March 2005, Mayo County Council did not erect one sign to inform the user that the surface was temporary. Despite direct requests by Aisling's parents to the county manager, the council refused to introduce cautionary speed restriction. This disregards and ignores the NRA's guidelines, directives and specifications and it highlights the lack of a safety check sheet.

The local authorities are not answerable to any Department or Minister in respect of safety or work practices at roadwork sites. This situation allows for responsibility and accountability to be lost. It also helps to frustrate families who seek answers or justice because they are directed back to the body they are making the complaint against. Our purpose is that we would prevent the same fate befalling any other victim and grief attached to any other family. The recurrence of another fatal avoidable road accident is rather possible given the current culture of irresponsibility and unaccountability in Ireland. We do not seek to rewrite the book of guidelines or regulations. We simply call for the guidelines, directions and regulation in place to be enforced. This is our purpose.

I wish to convey our deepest sympathies to Mr. and Mrs. Gallagher on Aisling's death. I call Mr. Richard Keane.

Mr. Richard Keane

We are Richard and Kay Keane. We live in Ballylongford, County Kerry. On the morning of Saturday, 22 April 2006, we had a wonderful, full life and were looking forward to the autumn of our years having brought up six beautiful, healthy and respectable children. Within 24 hours, our family had been shattered by the realisation that our beautiful daughter, Eileen, had been killed tragically in a road traffic accident on the evening of Saturday, 22 April, when she was a passenger in a motor vehicle being driven by her boyfriend, Trevor Chute.

The accident occurred at a crossroads at Ardoughter, Ballyduff, County Kerry. The passage of time has enabled us to focus a little on the tragic events of that night and on the realisation that the accident may well have been avoided. Clearly, the full facts of the accident will never be known since, unfortunately, the two best witnesses to the accident were deceased at the scene. Fortunately for them, their deaths were instantaneous, the only thing about which we are grateful. Eileen and Trevor did not have to suffer. However, what has become very clear to us over time is that a necessary and radical approach should be taken to the implementation of all necessary road safety laws, a rigorous safety audit of road transport networks and, we believe, in tandem with the audit, a community wide process should be rolled out for a proper and fundamental investigation of major incidents on the public road network.

We recognise that legislative authorities are engaged in an ongoing review of safety legislation which has had some success in reducing accidents and, in particular, fatalities. This is an ongoing process and we as Irish citizens are pleased that a formerly more relaxed attitude to road safety by everyone is becoming unacceptable. However, the process of assessment and investigation is primitive.

The facts of our tragic situation are that there were no road signs or safety markings at the scene of the accident. Trevor Chute drove through a crossroads without knowing there was a crossroads there. Ninety nine times out of 100 no accident would have occurred. Unfortunately, a bus was travelling on the other road and the impact was sudden and tragic. The Garda was called immediately to the scene of the accident as were the other emergency services. The system of dealing with all such occurrences in Ireland is based on our adversarial system. The Garda arrive at the scene and its main focus at the scene is to police the matter and examine whether there is a possibility of a criminal offence. Any other role that it plays is peripheral.

The official and standard Irish practices followed our tragedy. The Garda took statements from the appropriate witnesses. A decision was made by the Director of Public Prosecutions that there should be no prosecution arising out of the accident. A coroner's inquest was subsequently convened. This is an antiquated and outdated process whose only function is to establish the cause of death, which is largely in medical terms. It has no relevance to us in trying to establish any facts or any closure. Its function is largely to determine what information should be placed on a deceased's death certificate.

As time went on, we began to ask questions about the accident and, more importantly, we began to realize that we were not the only people who were catapulted into such a painful chasm of grief and events. We had always had questions about the role of our local authority, Kerry County Council, in the accident. In time we began to ask questions and assess information. We became aware of the existence of a Garda report, known as a CT68 form, which is a report filled out by members of the Garda in connection with accidents. A copy of this form is sent to the National Road Safety Authority and Kerry County Council. We felt we were entitled to see this form. Initially, and for some time subsequently, we were denied access.

When, through dogged insistence, we received a copy of the form, we found that it contained 11 mistakes of varying significance, not least of which was the fact that Trevor Chute's vehicle had driven through a stop or yield sign and that the location of the accident was approximately 15 miles away from where it had occurred. It is not difficult to envisage the cross-section of emotions that we suffered on seeing this document and how we felt the memory of our daughter was being officially preserved. The appalling manner in which this accident had been documented led us to a myriad of questions and conclusions including, though we have no evidential proof, that there was a cover-up.

The reality is that the junction where this accident occurred and the side which Trevor Chute approached from was entirely unsigned and unmarked. Unfortunately, we are not in a position to state whether this was a contributing factor to the accident because the only person who can say that is the driver of the motor vehicle and unfortunately he is deceased. Three and a half years on we continue to struggle against the powers in place and the laws protecting governing bodies. We cannot take a case against the Garda or against Kerry County Council, nor do we appear to be entitled to the information compiled in the relevant departments because of restrictions under our national freedom of information legislation. As a last effort to be heard, we presented our petition to the European Union.

We have files full of correspondence from every department outlining every piece of information that we have been asked to swallow. We have a letter from our coroner, Helen Lucey, stating that she is paid by the local county council and she decides who is called to inquests. Our file is voluminous and our conclusions leave us embittered and frustrated. The European Union can take a lead and has a responsibility to address issues regarding accident prevention and investigation. It has committed billions of euro to the building up of road infrastructure in its member states.

Article 2(7) of the road infrastructure safe managing directive 2006/0182 states that safety inspection means a periodic safety review of a road in operation. Implementation of this directive should be brought forward immediately and not postponed until December 2010, as is currently the case. In time all road infrastructure of European Union member states should be brought into the safety audit network. Costing of safety audits are infinitesimally smaller than the cost of accidents in real and personal terms. The financial cost of road accidents has been audited and is well known. The human cost of these accidents is incalculable. The European Union has an obligation to ensure that those road networks it funds should be as safe as possible. Risk assessment and prevention is far cheaper than the alternatives.

It should take an active role or ensure member states take an active role in the investigation of serious accidents and injuries that take place on the public road networks of member states. The situation in Ireland and in some other European countries is wholly inadequate. We in Ireland have inherited what is basically an adversarial system. It is not an investigative legal process. When road accidents, in particular, occur in Ireland leadership is taken by the Garda Síochána. It is specifically detailed to investigate the possible commission of a criminal offence. By reason of the obvious implications of such a process, all parties who could possibly be involved in the accident take up defensive positions.

This has been one of the major problems in our family achieving closure and coming to terms with Eileen's death. By reason of the fact that the Garda took a leading role there was no proper investigation. This can be easily seen by the, at best, negligent completion of the CT68 form. The investigating garda clearly formed a view at the scene of the accident as to whether a criminal investigation would follow. Once he had made that decision, all other issues became redundant. We do not exclusively blame the Garda Síochána for this situation. It is the system that we have. It is an adversarial system and not a proper investigative system.

We suggest that a consultative investigation process be rolled out that would be able to liaise with all of the parties involved in the accident be it families, the Garda, local authorities, witnesses, emergency services, and so on. All aspects of serious accidents could be then examined in a more collaborative process. The current system means that answers to questions are not available unless someone is criminally liable. This is unfair and illogical. The European Union as a major contributor to the world infrastructure must and should take a leading role in ensuring that the infrastructure it provides fully serves its purpose. Likewise, local authorities should be in charge of investigations as in many cases local authority engineers are inspecting their own work. Road deficiencies are a fact in roughly 10 road deaths a year. When the facts of a case are not correctly noted the conclusions cannot be correct.

We have now been fighting for more than three years. We want to ensure that no other family will go through the pain and grief we continue to feel. We want a process whereby everyone is entitled to access to information. If prosecutions have to arise as a result of the conclusion of the investigative-collaborative process, then that must happen. That is what accountability is about. We carry the heaviest burden.

Deputy Frank Fahey resumed the Chair.

My apologies for having missed some of the presentations. I have read all three submissions and join the other members in sympathising with the three families on the terrible tragedies they have endured. They have outlined in a succinct manner what they have been through in respect of those tragedies and they have our deepest sympathy in their loss.

I welcome the delegation. I realise this is not an easy day and the delegation has waited a long time for it. One has to be strong when dealing with this issue. We have three different but similar cases. From the committee's point of view we have great faith in each other and it works well. We will try to ensure that in respect of questions that are not answered — I am not speaking about legal issues — we will try to get those responsible in here to answer them. Since the 1970s and 1980s when 700 to 800 people were killed on our roads each year, we have addressed the issues of drink-driving and speeding to a point, but an issue that has become more relevant in the past 12 months is road conditions. The delegation said that local authorities inspect their own work. A new policy must be developed similar to that pushed through by the PARC Association in respect of drink-driving where every road must be inspected and be of a certain standard. As the delegation has rightly said, that is not what happens. There have to be independent assessors inspecting the roads.

The Road Safety Authority, under Noel Brett, must be given responsibility to engage private consultants with engineering experience to carry out an independent examination of every road accident in conjunction with the Garda. As it is, we are only dealing with statistics. The delegation can help the committee in forming policy and in pushing us, and while it is time-consuming, it does work. I am aware of this from the PARC Association which has come in here day in, day out but left yesterday when the Bill went to the Seanad. While it did not succeed in getting 100% of what it sought, it pushed all parties to say that drink-driving kills and it has got the blood alcohol level down to a certain limit. As the delegation rightly said, every road must be properly constructed and maintained. Mr. Noel Brett of the Road Safety Authority can cater for everything but the road conditions. It will have to be given that responsibility. To cater for everything in the three cases is not easy. There are questions that are not answered for the delegation and this could go on for 20 years.

I dealt with the Kentstown bus crash where five girls were killed. People put up their hands immediately and admitted they were wrong. People who tried to defend it were brought to court and in the end the truth came out. I think there have been developments in the past fortnight in regard to Mayo County Council and the court case. Without dwelling on any one of the specific cases, it is crucial that we as a committee, without being judge and jury, ask Kerry County Council, the Health and Safety Authority and the Garda Síochána — and the same for each of the counties involved — to appear before this committee and go through each accident step by step. We are not making any accusations but we cannot have a situation where someone comes back and says the accident happened 15 km from its actual location or where there may be a statistic from the Road Safety Authority — correct me if I am wrong — stating that one of the daughters was killed because she went through a crossroads where there was signage when in fact there was no signage. That position must be cleared up.

I am aware the delegation has had to go to Europe and has had to come back to the committee. This is a fantastic time in terms of road safety in Ireland for the delegation to appear before the committee because this is the issue and it is being addressed in our papers today and is known to everyone on the ground. The families have paid the ultimate price and they know what must be done to ensure this does not happen to anyone else. No one is better equipped to provide the facts with a view to drawing up new legislation. They have lived with these tragedies for between four and nine years and have paid €560 for freedom of information requests to see how their son or daughter was killed. That should not happen.

In the event of an accident there should be a private investigation unit headed by the Road Safety Authority to deal with it. The Road Safety Authority has dealt with drivers' licences. It has the manpower and the will but not the authority to deal with it. Everyone must be strong on this issue. It is not good enough that these people should appear before the committee and that we listen to them. We have corrected the three killers on our roads: drink-driving, speed and road conditions. Road conditions mean the condition of the roads, markings and so on. We know that visitors to our country say there is no signage and someone is killed because they did not know on which side of the road they should drive.

While I may not ask the questions that should be asked, I ask that this committee invite the three local authorities, with the relevant people who either did not want to co-operate or who did co-operate, to appear before the committee and give the facts as to whether a signpost was in place, whether the chippings had been cleared off the road the next day or not——

We all agree with the Deputy's sentiments in terms of the tragedies. However, the advice the committee has received, and which the Deputy has received personally, from the secretariat is that the committee cannot engage in any inquiry into specific accidents and can only consider the broad policy issues arising.

It is not an inquiry. It is just the facts.

We cannot invite in local authorities on the specific accidents and have been so advised.

Mr. Seán Farren

May I come back in?

I will allow Mr. Farren in a moment. We can request the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, which has responsibility for roads, to carry out an investigation and to look at the issues that have arisen. I am not sure whether any discussions took place with the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government or the Department of Transport. The Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government is specifically responsible for road conditions through the local authorities. We must ensure that whatever we do is within our remit, and we want to be of assistance to the three families.

Mr. Seán Farren

I thank the Chairman. If the committee is seriously interested in road safety, it should be noted that the local authorities will not co-operate with two other State bodies. How can road safety be achieved when people are having accidents on the work they carried out and they will not co-operate with either the Garda Síochána or the HSE?

With respect, I suggest that is a matter for the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, which is the responsible body——

Mr. Seán Farren

I understand what the Chairman is saying and I accept that, but I contacted the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government when Deputy Dick Roche was Minister. In his letter he stated that he finances local authorities and issues them with guidelines but he has no administrative role in enforcing the guidelines. He gives them money and guidelines but if they do not follow the guidelines, there is nothing he can do. To whom do they answer? The National Roads Authority says it has no responsibility over roads.

What we as a committee can do is ask the Department about this and whether there is a need for a change in terms of responsibilities and in terms who has responsibility for this area. In the case of the local authorities, they must answer to somebody.

Mr. Seán Farren

To whom do they answer?

That is the issue we can address. We can have that addressed through the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, and I am happy to do that.

Ms Kay Keane

The Department has told us it is the responsibility of the Minister for Transport, Deputy Dempsey.

When I say the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, it will involve both that Department and the Department of Transport, because the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government has responsibility for local roads.

Ms Kay Keane

The problem is nobody has responsibility for anything. No organisation seems to have responsibility for anything.

We can have this examined by the two Departments and we can try to get answers, and we will do that.

Ms Kay Keane

We have written to nearly every Member of the House, including the Taoiseach, and to the Department.

I would like to welcome Seán and Magdalene, Richard and Kay, and Tommy and Kathleen. The three accounts they set out are very distressing and very important. They bring home, in a most powerful way, the loss of these beautiful and talented young women. I can only vaguely imagine the incredible tragedy it has been for their families. Their accounts bring home to us that the policy issues they have raised are the issues that are of concern to this committee.

Deputy McEntee and I were very upset that the Health and Safety Authority, HSA, did not have a role, for example, in the investigation of the accident that occurred in Kentstown. The HSA was not able to carry out the kind of investigation it wanted to carry out in regard to sites where collisions occurred. We have a concern in that respect. There may well be a legislative gap in terms of ministerial powers. The point the couples made about everybody passing the buck is a valid one. There must be an answer to this.

On the first point they made concerning an independent investigation, the Chairman will be aware that I, on behalf of the Labour Party, proposed the setting up of a body some time ago. We are familiar with the marine casualty investigation unit, which investigates an incident involving a casualty at sea or sea disasters. I commend the Government, the Chairman and everybody involved in the setting up of that body three or four years ago. It produces reports on incidents that occur at sea, some of which may have involved tragic losses. In a lucid and cogent way we find out from such reports what happened without it involving an adversarial situation. We find out of the facts of what went wrong with the boat or ship and how the tragedy occurred. We need a similar type structure for the investigation of tragedies that occur on our roads. Such a body should have an independent role in the investigation of such incidents and a local authority, be it Mayo County Council, Kerry County Council or Donegal County Council, should not have the last say. Deputy McEntee's colleague, Deputy O'Dowd, raised issues concerning legal issues if people were to take legal actions and how that would sit with such a body being in place. We were interested in exploring the establishment of such a body which would be able to conduct fundamental investigations of such incidents.

The select committee dealt with the Road Traffic Bill, which provides mainly for a reduction in the legal blood alcohol level for motorists, and the Bill is now being dealt with in the Seanad. The discussion on it also covered this area. Under the Bill, gardaí will be given significant new powers to seek information. I note Richard and Kay referred to the CT68 form. We had a copy of that form during the debate on Committee Stage of that Bill last week. I notice a much more detailed report on a collision is made in Northern Ireland and in the UK, whereas the report of an accident here is very basic and to some extent it is an account taken after the event, after the fact. There is clearly a need for reform in that respect. On behalf of my party, I put it to the Minister last week that we should have a totally different form of reportage of collisions, in that they should be reported in much more detail to examine the circumstances involved.

Tommy went into detail on the surfaces of roads and gave us information on the tarmacadam surface and the aqua-planing. I do not like to use the word "cover up" but there seems to have been a cover up in attempting to pretend that there was not an issue with the road surface. With regard to the point he made about audits, we discussed this point with the head of the National Roads Authority in a earlier part of this meeting, namely, that all roads may need to have audit levels, levels of signage and safety, in respect of which there should be accountability and the details of which we should know. The points made about signage were well made.

The couples before us have done the Irish people a great service by this campaign — that is the basic point I wish to make to them. I commend them on that. Arising from the terrible disaster that has happened to each family, they have mounted this campaign to bring these points to the attention of the Parliament of the country to try put in place systems, which perhaps could avert such a tragedy occurring in the future and avoid other parents throughout the country having to face the terrible devastation they have experienced. I thank the couples for doing that for the Irish people.

In terms of having an independent investigation of such incidents in terms of surfaces, signage and the reportage of collisions, we take on board what the couples have had to say in general terms. I strongly support Deputy McEntee's proposals. I propose that a brief report of this meeting should be forwarded to the Minister requesting him to respond to our discussion on these key points, as outlined in these three reports.

I extend my personal condolences to the three families and thank them for their excellent presentations. I share the view of my colleagues that an independent body should be established and in this respect Deputy Broughan mentioned the body established in the marine area. The Railway Safety Commission, an independent body, is carrying out an investigation into the rail accident that occurred with the collapse of the Broadmeadow Bridge and it will bring a report of that investigation to this committee. The RSA or some independent body should be charged with responsibility in this area.

Perhaps we could ask a safety consultant to provide us with a blueprint in terms of the overall safety issues in regard to roads, including road surfaces. The bitumen surface mentioned in two of the reports is clearly unsafe. It was only one part of the final solution — I assume that chippings should also have been laid. Somebody, either for financial expediency or some other reason, decided the chippings could not be afforded, that the road surface was considered finished and road markings were put down and that caused these unfortunate tragedies. If we had a blueprint in terms of signage, surfacing and everything related to road safety, and a body such as the RSA could request each county council to ensure that all roads in each of their jurisdictions comply with the standards in the blueprint, we could make progress.

I come from an insurance background and insurance companies, acting on behalf of a county council, would say: "Don't let us get involved here because if it was ever proved that we did 1% wrong, we would wind up picking up the tab on the insurance claims". That is an issue, and as long as it remains one, we will never get anywhere on this. I agree with the proposal that we need an independent group established to investigate accidents and to come up with conclusions as to whether the county council is responsible, the vehicles, or the drivers, as the case may be.

The couples are in a very unsatisfactory situation in that many years down the road they cannot bring closure to these tragedies and they are getting the run around from all the different bodies. That is not satisfactory. If we could do anything, it would be to make some recommendations, which perhaps we would need to consider separately. We will not reach conclusions on this here this evening, but perhaps we could give this matter consideration and request a safety consultant to advise us on carrying out an audit of all the roads in each county council area.

I thank the Chairman for allowing me to contribute as I am not a member of this committee. I am aware of the Gallagher case in County Mayo. I never met the family but I know of the battle that Tommy and all his family have fought in the case of Aisling. I have listened to the contributions of the Keanes and the Farrens. I sympathise with them on the deaths of their beautiful children. They are having to put so much energy into securing accountability. When I heard the exact details of the cases, the mind boggled at the lack of accountability. It is a case of pass the parcel. I support Deputy McEntee and all of the other Deputies present. It will be a sad reflection on our administrative systems if there cannot be a sense of closure by way of implementing many of the suggestions they have made.

What we can do is bring before the committee representatives of the two Departments involved and the Road Safety Authority to ask them to answer some of the questions the parents have asked. It is clear that there are policy deficiencies in the investigation of accidents. That has been accepted.

When I was Minister for the Marine I established the Marine Casualty Investigation Board because there was no independent body available to investigate comprehensively the reasons accidents had taken place at sea and it has been successful in so doing. As a policy initiative, we can examine how accidents are investigated and whose responsibility it is to do so. We can ask the Departments involved to answer these questions. Having heard their responses, we can suggest there should be in place a mechanism to investigate the causes of accidents, including road conditions. If we can get agreement on this, I will be happy to bring in officials from the Department involved and the National Roads Authority to answer the questions posed by these parents.

One of the big issues raised here time and again with the Garda and the Road Safety Authority is why does it take so long — in some cases, years — to establish the causes of an accident when it is plain to everybody that it should take no more than a couple of weeks to establish them. We are given excuses of all kinds as to why it takes two or three years to do this. It has often occurred to us at the committee that if within a couple of weeks of an accident the authorities could state the causes, similar accidents could be avoided. On one occasion when representatives of the Garda and the Road Safety Authority appeared before the committee after a tragic accident in which several persons were killed after a foreign national driving on the Dublin-Cork road had passed a line of traffic, I recall it had not taken long to establish the causes of the accident — the individual concerned had been passing a line of cars when he hit an oncoming car.

It is welcome that these parents have made their case today. We appreciate the huge amount of work they have put in. Like everybody else, I know of many families who have lost a child in a road accident. I think we all have good friends who have been in that difficult situation. Christy O'Connor Jnr. described being the parent of a child killed in a road accident as being in the club from Hell. We appreciate what these parents have been through. The committee is prepared to do whatever it can within the contstraints to try to get answers. Notwithstanding this, we will bring officials from the two Departments involved and the Road Safety Authority before us to pursue the issues raised and come back to the parents with the results. We will certainly be happy to engage with them further.

Although it is hard to deal with the matter with the Gallagher family, has there yet been an inquest? Did something happen in the past two weeks that will possibly allow this to happen? That is crucial.

Mr. Tommy Gallagher

Coming from Achill Island, I realise the importance of undertaking a marine investigation whenever a boat is lost at sea. The process has proved worthwhile and saved lives, as boats are now subject to sea trials to check their balance. To use a fishing term, I do not want to trawl over old ground, but with all due respect, I have been through the Departments of Transport and the Environment, Heritage and Local Government and at each twist and turn directed back to the county council. As a matter of fact, we met three members of the NRA in St. Martin's House five years ago in March 2005, one of whom was Mr. Pat Maher, now head of operations with the authority. I have no great issues with the authority, but I was nearly gob-smacked when I was told who was responsible for safety, quality and management in road maintenance contracts. It is the elected members who are responsible, not the Minister for Transport, the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government and the NRA. With all due respect to the 31 elected members of Mayo County Council, I do not know if any one of them would be able to say they know what has been put down on a particular road. I worked in road construction for 35 years and I would be able to say if hot-rolled asphalt, SMA or DBM basecourse has been used or that the size of stone used is 20 mm, 14 mm or 10 mm. One needs to know what one is doing when investigating the causes of a road accident.

Let me give a simple example taken from the NRA's Design Manual for Roads and Bridges, the Bible when it comes to road safety. It is in seven volumes in binder format. It states that, for a given set of traffic and site conditions, the level of resistance to skidding on a wet road surface at low vehicle speed, that is, below 50 km/h, depends almost entirely on the properties and proportions of the material incorporated in the road surface, in other words, that the proper grit is used and there is the proper hardness of stone. It also states that, at vehicle speeds above 50 km/h, the level of resistance to skidding on a wet road surface is affected not only by the properties of the material incorporated in the road surface but also by the macrotexture of the surface and that surface texture, in other words, the roughness of the surface, is, therefore, essential to ensure adequate skidding resistance at high speeds. It states in that regard that the level required on a 1,000 m section of carriageway with a bituminous surface is an average of 1.5 mm or more.

At Aisling's accident scene, I engaged a company which does type work — road surface testing and road material testing at construction stage. It found that at the accident scene, on this new surface down for only three months, the average surface texture depth per section tested was 0.8 mm. This test will stand up to scrutiny in Dáil Éireann or any other forum in the country. The results indicate that this section of the road failed to meet the stated requirements of the National Roads Authority by as much as 47%.

I have received a reply from Mayo County Council which was endorsed by the county manager, the county engineer, the director of services, a senior engineer, an acting senior engineer and a senior executive engineer. These are at the top of the tree within Mayo County Council and the reply they endorsed states there is no need for a speed restriction on the road where Aisling was killed. If this was done in the health service or in respect of the abuse of children, the relevant Minister would call in those involved and ask them what they were doing. He or she would also ask from where they had obtained this nonsense. Why is it that the local authorities represent the NRA in each of the 26 counties? The NRA and the Departments of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government and Transport do not operate in each county. The local authorities represent the NRA in each county.

In the instance to which I refer, the local authority had received €300,000 to put in place 1.8 km of road. I am not stating the NRA should consider what went wrong. That organisation has issued good guidelines. These are not Third World guidelines — far from it. The majority were adopted on foot of material recommended by the Transport Research Laboratory, TRL, in the United Kingdom.

When the Health and Safety Authority investigated Aisling's case, it took on board information made available by W. S. Atkins, an international civil engineering consultancy company which specialises in road design. The HSA carried out an investigation which lasted two years. As a previous speaker indicated, I do not believe it should have taken two years to complete the investigation. If one is kicked from pillar to post and the staff of the relevant local authority will not answer questions unless a solicitor is present, answers are hard to come by. The truth is even harder to come by in such circumstances.

The HSA has issued a summary of the results of the investigation which runs to seven or eight pages. Only three relate to the summary, while the others contain lists of the people interviewed. That was the basis of the W. S. Atkins report. Such a report would be recognised in any country in the world. Its contents would be taken on board and its recommendations implemented. The local authority objected to the report being introduced at the inquest. It did not want the facts surrounding the accident to be presented at the inquest.

As a vote has been called in the Dáil, we are going to be obliged to conclude our deliberations. Nobody is disagreeing with the case being made. The problem is that there is a gap in the investigative ability of the State to arrive at answers to the questions our guests have raised. The task of the committee is to try to find a way to convince the Departments involved that there must be a mechanism, whereby accidents such as those under discussion should be investigated. The only reason the Marine Casualty Investigation Board has been referred to is it is an example of a new approach taken, whereby independent individuals were brought in to investigate various authorities and matters.

I consider this meeting to have been a failure. This could be my final appearance at one of the committee's meetings as my party's spokesperson on road safety. Our guests are only seeking the truth. God damn it, a letter could be sent to local gardaí in County Donegal. The questions our guests have posed could be put to the HSA and a written reply requested. The relevant questions relate to whether the road was cleaned on the following day and a sign was in place, etc. Our guests have outlined their experiences to us and made recommendations. This is an extremely important time in the country's history in the context of road safety and conditions. We should reconvene and request that five or six questions relating to the matters raised by these three families be sent to the relevant bodies.

We can ask the Departments concerned and I will be quite happy to do so. However, as has been pointed out to the Deputy in very clear terms, it is not within the remit of the committee to do what he asks. He was asked to meet the head of the committee secretariat in order that what the committee could and could not do could be explained to him. To be fair, that was also explained to the parents present. I do not wish to mislead them or anyone else. I would be quite happy, in accordance with the advice given to me, to allow representatives from the Departments to come before the committee in order that we might ask them to carry out the investigation being sought.

Ms Anita Gallagher

I am present in my mother's absence. I am employed by the Department of Education and Skills as a teacher. I am deputy principal in a school and governed by policies supposed to be in place to secure the safety and welfare of children in my care between 9 a.m and 4 p.m. every day. I am answerable to a principal and a VEC chief executive officer and committee. In addition, I am a volunteer with the Irish Coast Guard which comes within the remit of the Department of Transport. As a coxswain, if I bring out a crew, I have a duty of care to ensure I bring its members home again.

I welcome members' comments with regard to obtaining answers, seeking advice and examining the investigative procedures. I am sure the Keane family would also welcome such comments. However, I draw the attention of members to the fact that they should give greater consideration to the introduction of preventive measures. This discussion has focused on ad hoc, post-event, pre-emptive action. I would like to refocus the work of the committee on recommending the introduction of preventive measures.

When the Chairman brings representatives of the Departments of Transport and the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, the HSA and the NRA before the committee, he and members must put specific questions to the individuals concerned. As my father stated, Mayo County Council and other local authorities are only answerable to elected members when it comes to safety practices relating to road work sites. If one asks to whom councils are answerable in respect of planning permission, services and utilities, one will be directed to different departments.

The committee must focus on preventive measures. Last night I drove on the N59 while coming here from County Mayo. Dense bitumen macadam is still used on that road. The difference between my journey and that of my late sister Aisling was that I saw a sign with the words "Unfinished Surface". Aisling did not have that luxury. Mayo County Council has done some work, but it still refuses to put in place signs indicating that vehicles should be driven at less than 15 km/h, 20 km/h or 25 km/h. Like other county councils, it is making token gestures in order that it might be seen to be taking small steps. The committee must be extremely specific in the questions it puts to those the Chairman intends to invite to appear.

The questions our guests have posed will be put to those who are invited to appear. The transcript of this meeting will be given to the officials involved.

Ms Kay Keane

The Chairman used the word "remit". Everyone to whom we have written has used that word when replying to us. It is a word people should stop using. Instead they must do something to help us.

That is why I have stated our job is to try to bring about a policy change in order that road accidents might be investigated. When that happens, the preventive measures that should have been there in the first place can be put in place.

Will the committee invite officials from the various Departments to appear in order that we can ask specific questions? The families might help us to ask those questions as well.

Yes. I thank the families for attending and I apologise for having to cut the meeting short but we have to go to the Dáil to vote, which will take some time.

The joint committee adjourned at 7.10 p.m. until 3.45 p.m. on Wednesday, 14 July 2010.
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