Seanad Éireann debate -
Thursday, 6 Mar 1924

Vol. 2 No. 20

TREATMENT OF LIVE STOCK.

Mr. COUNIHAN

I move:—

"That the Seanad requests the Government to adopt measures to improve the transit of live stock and other agricultural produce, and to exercise supervision over the handling of live stock at fairs, markets and railway and steamship yards."

Great importance attaches to the subject matter of the resolution, especially when we consider that 75 per cent. of the total wealth of the Free State is derived from agriculture. If the country is to prosper everything possible should be done to improve the industry. I intend mainly to deal with the transit and handling of live stock. The live stock trade is by far the biggest side of the agricultural industry, and it is computed that over £1,000,000 is lost annually owing to the bad facilities and the careless and brutal handling of live stock at fairs, markets, railway stations, and steamship yards. In pre-war days the railway companies ran special trains at something approaching reasonable time, but since the British Government took over the Irish railways and guaranteed the dividends, the railway companies have gone from bad to worse. I admit that the railway companies in recent years have had a very difficult time, but even now they are making scarcely any effort to get back to normal working conditions. In pre-war days if cattle trains were unreasonably delayed a complaint was made to the railway company, and they put forward some sort of reasonable excuse. Now any sort of excuse is good enough when a complaint is made by the cattle trade. I have seen cattle "specials" shunted into sidings and left lie there for hours in order to allow "specials" from race meetings to get in at the scheduled time. I do not object to race "specials" getting in in scheduled time, as I consider that all trains should be run up to time. I protest against preferential treatment being given to sports or other forms of enjoyment as against the cattle trade.

At most of the stations the railway banks are too small, and are badly constructed. In a good many cases the cattle waggons are obsolete and badly ventilated. There is a shortage of waggons, which is one of the great causes of hardship on and the beating of stock. The shipping yards also want to be looked after, and improved facilities provided for the feeding of stock. I would like to say a few words about the Dublin cattle market. From the point of view of numbers and quality of stock the Dublin market is the finest in the world, but it is a disgrace, I might say to civilisation, the way cattle are treated there. In the heavy season there are sometimes as many as 8,500 cattle in the market, crowded into a space that cannot accommodate more than 5,000 cattle. The Government should insist on the Corporation providing sufficient accommodation for the stock shown in the market. My idea in bringing forward this resolution was to draw public attention to and to see what means could be devised to remedy matters. I think we might add to the motion a request to the Minister for Agriculture to call a conference of the Cattle Trade Associations, representatives of the railways and steamship companies, as well as members of the Transit Department of the Department of Agriculture to devise means and draw up rules and regulations that should be drastically adhered to. Unless that is done, it is useless to look forward to any improvement in the deplorable state of affairs that now exists.

Sir NUGENT EVERARD

I beg to second.

Dr. GOGARTY

I am going to ask what is the fate of a resolution of such importance as this? When we make a statement, I should think as regards the Government reaction to it, the only advantage we have is to use the Seanad as a platform. Resolutions passed in the Seanad, so far as we have had any experience, are really only pious aspirations. The definite resolution to approach the Minister for Agriculture is very necessary, because when we pass a resolution or draw attention to an outcrying scandal, such as exists in connection with the cattle trade, there should be some means whereby we get an acknowledgment that such a resolution reaches the ears of the Government, or that our words come home to roost somewhere. Otherwise it is like writing letters to the newspapers. There is an aspect of the treatment of cattle that I think is very important. That is the cruelty to the animals. The amount of suffering caused to dumb life in this country is greater than in any part of Europe. The attitude towards dumb animals is more callous than anywhere else except in some parts of Southern Europe, where they are equally callous to horses. The statement that £1,000,000 is lost annually to the country by ill-treatment of animals does not cover the entire loss, because Senator Counihan has told me that in some instances a beast may be depreciated to the extent of £5 by bad treatment. I will try to explain what constitutes bad treatment and what depreciates the worth of the animal. It seems that if an ox is beaten weals arise under the skin, into which the blood flows. If the animal's life is preserved for a month even then the weals would not be altogether healed. The result is that a butcher on the far side of the Channel knows that if he buys a badly beaten animal he will lose when it is killed about 3d. per pound, which would amount to about £5 per head.

That means about £5 a head, or it might mean more. The point is: Can nothing be done by the Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals to summon people, responsible for the conditions which give rise to this scandalous treatment of brutes? Senator Counihan has shown that the shortage of cattle trucks and the thrusting of cattle into wagons which cannot contain them contribute to this cruelty. Then again the shipping facilities are very poor. Getting animals on board and taking them off the ship involves a great deal of hammering and belting, and helps towards injuring them. Then, again, the method of dishorning cattle involves a great deal of cruelty. I need not go on from dealing with cruelty to live stock to the methods of plucking geese. All our references to such scandals seem to end in the ventilation of them. I just wish to point out first that some arrangement should be made by which our resolutions should go before the Departments to which they are addressed. Secondly, we might draw the attention of the Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals to this important matter. I think the country can draw its own conclusions regarding the monetary loss sustained by these acts of cruelty.

The EARL of KERRY

I would like to support the motion, and especially the point of view emphasised by Senator Gogarty that much of the cruelty which is involved is due to insufficient accommodation. Senators are aware that a good deal has been written about this matter on the other side of the Channel lately. I was asked by a friend last week whether something could not be done on this side. I do not know to what extent the sufferings which animals undergo on board ship would form a subject within the scope of the Government of this country. I suppose it is a matter whether the shipping is Irish or British owned. I understand that most of it is British. Anyhow, there would be room for improvement on this side also. The cruelties to which Senator Gogarty has referred consist largely of driving the animals on board, as well as the insufficent accommodation for them on the ship. I suppose there are Inspectors on this side, as there are Inspectors on the other side, and both Governments ought to co-operate through their officials with a view to largely remedying, if not obviating altogether, these conditions.

Colonel MOORE

I have been in communication with the Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals, and I have been informed that the only remedies that they can suggest are the licensing of drivers, who should carry badges with numbers on them, and also that the police be called upon to interfere as much as possible to prevent animals being beaten. These suggestions have been put forward by people very much interested in this question.

Mr. BENNETT

I have practical experience of the conditions that prevail in fairs and markets and I am satisfied that Senator Counihan has established a good case. I hope, however, when considering this matter that the docility of the average bullock will be taken into account and whether the hardship inflicted is not to some extent necessary. In fairs there is a rush of dealers to get the cattle to the terminal points with the least possible delay. 20 or 30 beasts are hurriedly driven to the nearest railway station. They are closed up together and one bullock may be of a peculiar temperament, and may attempt to escape. I suggest that the three or four-year-old bullock is not an animal to which you would say, "Come, my dear, kiss me." Instead of that he makes a rush for you and I say that it is asking too much from a human being to stop the use of his stick. I hope that in investigating the matter my countrymen will not be maligned for having in self-defence hit a simple bullock. I do not think that my countrymen are as cruel as it has been the fashion of the Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals to suggest. I hope when the grievances are being ventilated the whole aspect of the question will be considered and that it will be acknowledged that a certain amount of coercion is necessary for certain animals.

Captain GREER

It seems to me that in this discussion we have perhaps wandered a little away from the excellent resolution which Senator Counihan put before us. We have wandered into a question of cruelty to animals which is of course involved in this question. What we really seem to want is to try and devolve some system by which our cattle trade may be regulated. At the present time it is not regulated at all and every man works on his own system. Every man drives his own bullock with the largest stick he can find. If there were some branch of the Department of Agriculture definitely responsible for all matters connected with the transport of animals it might be well. I do not think that there is any proper system of inspection at ports. Seeing how very great our cattle trade is it is not asking our Government too much because the expense incurred would be repaid in the immense saving there would be in preventing the deterioration which occurs in the transport of animals. If a proper system of inspection were rigidly carried out an immense amount of that deterioration could be avoided and the country would benefit to that extent. I agree with what Senator Gogarty said. I do not know what happens when resolutions such as this are passed. I do not know what power we have beyond expressing our pious opinions. The opinions of many of those here are worth considering, and I hope that the matter will be brought to the notice of the Government.

Mr. DUFFY

I am in agreement with the resolution put forward by Senator Counihan, and particularly with the views expressed by Captain Greer. It seems to me rather strange, however, that there is such a tenderness with respect to cattle on the part of the members of the Seanad generally. Why should it be expressed for cattle over and above any other class of animal?— for, to my mind, the same cruelty is practised on other classes of animals and nothing is said about it at all. Go to an ordinary race-course and you see a jockey mounted on a horse, with spurs, with steel spikes half an inch long, to goad the animal, and a heavy whip to lash him along. That does not seem to strike people at all. In the country districts an innocent deer is brought in a cart, and hounds which are kept from food and made hungry are let loose after the deer. When they want to train hounds a lame deer is brought out, and if they have not a lame one they tie up one of its legs in order to blood the hound. Take the case of fox-hunting. The fox is hunted into a net, pulled out and thrown alive to a pack of hounds. Is there no cruelty in that? It is sport. If an unfortunate working man works a horse with a sore on its back or breast he is prosecuted. It seems to me we should look on those matters in a much more logical manner. The real thing that matters, to my mind, is that the trade of the country is affected by the cruelty with which cattle are transported and handled in bringing them to the other side of the channel. I have no doubt a considerable loss is entailed, and that the bruises and injuries sustained in transporting the cattle from the Dublin market and others will go on as long as the trade goes on. I would suggest to Senator Counihan that the proper method to adopt to wipe out that loss is to encourage the members of his own trade to take over and put into working order the dead meat factory at Drogheda. By developing the dead meat industry he will wipe out whatever loss is incurred in this way, and which in general is inevitable, to my mind. I would like that it should be made an offence to abuse any animal, whether it is done for sport or necessity.

AN CATHAOIRLEACH

Senator Counihan, would it suit you to add those words to your motion: "And that in furtherance of this purpose the Minister for Agriculture be requested to call a conference of persons interested in the cattle trade with a view to framing and enforcing the regulations necessary for giving effect to this resolution"?

Mr. COUNIHAN

Yes, thank you, Sir.

Motion, as amended, put and agreed to.