I understand the Minister for Local Government and Public Health is anxious to make a statement to the House on a measure in which he is interested. I am giving him an opportunity of doing so now.
NATIONAL HEALTH INSURANCE BILL, 1926.
CATHAOIRLEACH
I am in something of a difficulty with regard to this National Health Insurance Bill which is before the Dáil to-day. It should be passed through the Oireachtas before the end of the current year. It is only a temporary measure validating the present arrangements under the National Health Insurance Act for medical certification and second medical opinion. Pending the introduction into the Dáil of a more comprehensive measure dealing with National Health Insurance, I am anxious to get this Bill passed through now. The Act has been in operation for the last three years or so. This is a purely formal matter. The Bill has not been passed through the Dáil yet, and, accordingly, I am not able to introduce it at the present moment. If the measure that the Minister for Posts and Telegraphs is interested in does not take up very much time, I may be in the position that this House may have adjourned for the day before I would be able to get back here. I formally ask that if the Seanad is to adjourn in the meantime that they might reassemble at, say, 5 o'clock.
CATHAOIRLEACH
You expect to get the Bill through the Dáil to-day?
Yes.
CATHAOIRLEACH
You have not made it quite clear to the House why it would not be sufficient that this Bill should be passed in January next. You have not made that quite clear to the House.
Well, the Bill is dealing with the present year, and it would be rather a bad precedent to establish here that we would be validating next year a position of affairs which should be validated in the current year.
CATHAOIRLEACH
I am sure the House naturally would be disposed to give every assistance it could to the Minister under the conditions, but I do think it necessary once again to complain of the scant courtesy given to this House in the consideration of Bills of this kind. Some three weeks ago I called on the Clerk of the Seanad and asked him to go to the Executive Council to inquire carefully from them and ascertain whether there were any Bills which they would require us to pass before the Christmas Recess. The Clerk was informed that there was no Bill which required to be passed before the Recess except the Expiring Laws Bill. On the faith of that statement I informed the House more than once that that was the only Bill they would be required to consider before the Recess. That statement of mine was published in the usual way in the report of the debates. Now this is the first intimation that I, as well as the members of the House, have had about this further Bill which we are told ought to be passed before we adjourn. I do think that it is not at all fair to the members or to the Chairman that applications of this kind should be sprung upon them at the very last moment and without the slightest previous attempt to give us any preliminary notice. I am in the hands of the House. If the House is satisfied to say, either that the Bill will go through this House when we have concluded our ordinary business to-day, or that when we have concluded our ordinary business we should adjourn until 5 o'clock and then reassemble, or else adjourn until to-morrow, I am satisfied.
I think the Minister should go back to the Dáil and hurry on with the Bill, and when he comes back with the Bill we could consider what we should do. No one wants to be unreasonable. I object to this whole procedure, and I intend to refer to it when the Wireless Bill is taken up and considered, on the ground that it would be making a precedent.
Doing what the Minister asks would bring the procedure of this House to a farce. The suggestion that a Bill which has not been brought before us yet should be passed by us to-day would tend to make the House a farce.
I should like to express my great objection to this method of rushing Bills. There are a great many members who were under the impression that there was nothing to be done to-day except what was on the Agenda and they are not here.
I have been a participant in our proceedings for a number of years. I have been amazed at the celerity with which we passed Acts of the Oireachtas. Of course, there were reasons why we should pass these Acts with as little delay as possible in view of the circumstances of the country. But there is a limit. I agree, Sir, that this habit of rushing Bills through the Seanad reduces our procedure to a farce. We ought in ordinary circumstances, and I think the circumstances now may be taken as fairly ordinary, at least to give some attention to the laws that we are supposed to enact. I am very sorry that the Minister for Local Government and Public Health is concerned in a measure which has not been presented to us, and which, I suppose, has not been printed—at all events it is a Bill that we, as a Seanad, have not read. I think, therefore, it is rather too much to ask us to pass a measure like this on the spur of the moment. Now, Sir, my remarks would apply to this other measure that we are asked to pass to-day, a very complicated measure, too—the Wireless Telegraphy Bill, 1926. I notice that a colleague of ours proposes to suspend the Standing Orders for the purpose of enabling the remaining stages of this Bill to be passed to-day. I will vote against that motion. I think that, on general principles, it is time that the Seanad took some steps to assert itself and to insist that the measures introduced should have a reasonable time for consideration.
I really feel that I am in the position of the culprit to a great extent in this matter. But against that I would urge that this Bill is a purely formal Bill and the Seanad has passed a similar Bill twice already. The reason that the Bill was not introduced sooner is that originally I had intended to introduce a more comprehensive measure, but finding that the time was limited we decided on leaving out everything of a controversial nature. In this Bill all controversial matters are left over until next session. You may take it from me that there is absolutely no new point of principle involved in this measure. It is purely formal.
CATHAOIRLEACH
Am I right in saying that there is one clause in the present Act which would expire on the 1st of next month?
Would the Minister explain to us what practical harm will come if this Bill is adjourned until January? What will happen if this Bill is not passed before 1st January?
CATHAOIRLEACH
I have been labouring to get that from the Minister. The Minister just showed me the text of the Bill, and there does seem to be one clause in it which is to continue some formal power that would otherwise expire on the 31st December. As far as I could see, that is the only urgency about it.
All the powers we have under the Bill will expire on the 31st December.
What is the nature of the powers?
It is to continue the present arrangements for making provision out of the insurance funds for medical certification and for getting second medical opinion under the Insurance Act.
CATHAOIRLEACH
Is this an annual Bill?
It is.
CATHAOIRLEACH
Why, then, did it not appear in the Expiring Laws (Continuance) Act? If it is a Bill that requires to be renewed every year, I think it should have appeared in the schedule to the Expiring Laws (Continuance) Act. That is the proper place for it.
As I say, it is our intention to introduce a more comprehensive measure giving us additional power, but owing to the fact that the time was so short, we thought it better to continue the existing arrangements.
Can the Minister say how long this Bill has been in the Dáil?
CATHAOIRLEACH
It was introduced by the Minister and ordered to be printed on the 16th November last. It certainly is a formal Bill. That I can see at once. It is undoubtedly a formal Bill to continue existing powers which otherwise would expire on the 31st December. That is what it is in fact and in effect, but that does not alter the principle except in so far as it may affect a special case for not insisting too rigorously on it. Perhaps for the moment we might leave it in this condition—that we will not adjourn until we hear from the Minister whether he has got it through the other House, and then if he brings it red-hot here, we will see what we can do for him.
We will cool it for him.
The proper time to bring this forward would have been when the Expiring Laws (Continuance) Bill was introduced. I do assert that the time has arrived when a halt should be called to this ready-made legislation. It is reducing this Assembly to a farce.
CATHAOIRLEACH
I do not think anyone could say that I have overlooked that, because I have protested time after time.
May I give notice of a certain matter that I wish to raise on the adjournment? It is a question with which the Minister for Posts and Telegraphs is concerned.
CATHAOIRLEACH
Let us deal with the other business first. Perhaps when we finish that business, the Minister will answer you.
As far as one can see for the first time, this is really a matter of book-keeping, and I do not see what harm would be caused if the Bill were adjourned until January.
CATHAOIRLEACH
As far as I can see it would only mean that action on the various orders would be suspended until we had passed this Bill. That is to say, the power of obtaining double medical opinion and so forth would be suspended from the 31st December to the date on which we pass this Bill. That would be the only thing; it would hold up the machinery of the Bill for that period. In view of the fact that it is a pure formality perhaps the House would, subject to the protest we have made—and I only wish to emphasise it again—and in view of the fact that it is really insignificant, let the Bill go through.
The point is that we are very much concerned with the matters involved in this Bill—the whole question of medical certification.
CATHAOIRLEACH
Of course, if Senators think that they ought to raise a discussion——
I only want to say in reference to the manner in which the Bill is brought forward that our attitude would be largely determined by the guarantee given by the Minister as to when this comprehensive measure will be introduced. It is a very serious matter for the people for whom we speak, and unless we get a guarantee that the comprehensive measure will be introduced within a specific time we might feel obliged to refuse to pass this measure.
CATHAOIRLEACH
I think probably the most convenient thing for us to do would be this: If the Minister, before the House rises to-day, can inform the House that this Bill has passed through the other House, we might meet to-morrow to consider it. I do not say that necessarily means that we will pass it, but that we should meet to-morrow for its consideration, because in the morning each Senator would have a copy of it and I do not think it would be pushing the thing to the same extreme of absurdity as if we were to pass this Bill under the conditions here to-day. Therefore I would suggest to the House that we are going very far, if we make this concession to the Minister. If the Bill passes through the Dáil to-day before this House rises, I shall ask the House to meet to-morrow for the purpose of considering it.
I thank you very much, a Chathaoirligh. My anxiety to bring forward the Bill at present was really to save Senators from the inconvenience of having to come here on another day to consider a purely formal matter. That was the sole reason for this request.