This is simply to meet the points that Senator Sir John Keane desired to meet in his two proposed amendments.
PUBLIC BUSINESS. - LOCAL GOVERNMENT (RATES ON SMALL DWELLINGS) BILL, 1928—REPORT.
Amendments 1 and 2, by leave, withdrawn.
Amendment 3—Government Amendment:—
Section 1, sub-section (1). To delete in line 23 the words "actually used or is" and to substitute therefor the word "structurally."
Amendment agreed to.
Amendments 4 and 5, by leave, withdrawn.
Amendment 6—Government Amendment:—
Section 1, sub-section (1). To delete all from and including the word "rack-rent" in line 29 down to the end of the sub-section and to substitute therefor the words "in respect of the small dwelling in relation to which the expression is used a rent equal to or exceeding the valuation under the Valuation Acts of such dwelling or the person who would for the time being so receive in respect of such dwelling a rent equal to or exceeding the said valuation if such dwelling were let at such a rent."
This is really a drafting amendment. It is desired, while meeting the points that were made on the Committee Stage of the Bill, to provide that what might be regarded as a rack-rent shall be the valuation, but to leave out the expression "rack-rent" so as not to have the definition of rack-rent in this Bill at variance with the definition of rack rents in the Public Health Acts generally.
I think the amendment offers a solution of the points that were raised.
Amendment agreed to.
Amendment 7—Government Amendment:—
Section 4, sub-section (1). To delete at the end of the sub-section the following words added in Committee: "and the owner shall be provided with particulars of the rate in respect of each separate valuation."
This amendment proposes to take out some words that were put in on the Committee Stage. The situation is better met by amendment 8, which follows.
Amendment agreed to.
Amendment 8—Government Amendment:—
Section 4, sub-section (4). Before sub-section (4) to insert a new sub-section as follows:—
"(4) Whenever a rate is made by virtue of this section on the owner of one or more small dwellings, the rating authority by whom such rate is made shall furnish to such owner (as the case may require) particulars of such rate in respect of such small dwelling or separate particulars of such rate in respect of each such small dwelling, and such particulars shall be deemed to have been duly so furnished if the same are transmitted by post to or left at the address appearing in the rate book of such owner or, where such address is uncertain or the address of such owner does not appear in the rate book, are transmitted by post to or left at the small dwelling to which they relate."
CATHAOIRLEACH
This amendment proposes to carry out an undertaking given by the Government that the party liable will receive full particulars of the amount of the claim in respect of each separate dwelling.
Amendment agreed to.
Amendment 9—Government Amendment:—
Section 4, sub-section (5). Before the word "every," in line 44, to insert the words "save as is otherwise provided by this Act."
Amendment agreed to.
Amendment 10—Government Amendment:—
New Section. Before Section 5 to insert a new section as follows:—
5.—(1) Save as is otherwise provided by this section a rate made by virtue of this Act on an owner of a small dwelling who is not beneficially entitled to such small dwelling shall not be recoverable from such owner.
(2) Whenever a rate is made by virtue of this Act on the owner of a small dwelling and such owner is not beneficially entitled to such small dwelling and such rate is in arrear and unpaid for whichever of the following periods is the longer, that is to say, four months from the making of such rate or three months from the furnishing in accordance with this Act to such owner of particulars of such rate, the following provisions shall apply and have effect, that is to say,
(a) it shall be lawful for the rate collector by whom such rate is collectable to serve either personally or by post on such owner a notice restraining him for so long as any part of such rate remains unpaid from paying to the person beneficially entitled to such small dwelling any rents or profits received (whether before or after the service of such notice) by such owner out of or in respect of such small dwelling;
(b) when such notice has been served such owner shall, to the extent of all rents and profits issuing out of such small dwelling and either received by him before and still in his hands at the service of such notice or received by him after such service, be liable to pay such rate and the same shall be recoverable from him accordingly by all or any of the remedies authorised by this Act;
(c) the receipt of a rate collector by whom such rate is collectable for a payment made by such owner on account of the said rate after the service of such notice on him shall, as against the person beneficially entitled to such small dwelling and notwithstanding any direction given by such person, be a good discharge to such owner for moneys received by him for the use of or in trust for such person up to the amount of such payment;
(d) if such notice as aforesaid cannot conveniently be served on such owner or the rating authority by whom such rate was made is of opinion (whether before or after the service of such notice) that the amount of such rate so in arrear or some part of such amount is or probably will be irrecoverable from such owner, it shall be lawful for the rate collector by whom such rate is collectable to serve either personally or by post on the occupier of such small dwelling a notice stating the amount of the said rate then unpaid and requiring such occupier to pay to such rate collector or his successor in office all rent then due or thereafter to become due by him to such owner until the said amount of the said rate is by such payment or otherwise discharged;
(e) the service of such notice as aforesaid on such occupier shall operate to transfer to such rate collector and his successors in office the exclusive right to recover, receive and give a discharge for the rent required by such notice to be paid to such rate collector or his successor in office.
Under this proposed new section it is intended to meet the points raised on the Committee Stage, that it would be unfair that an agent who came in under Section 1 as the owner might be liable to suffer distraint and seizure in respect of money that he actually had not in hand. The section enables steps to be taken by the local authority to order the agent to retain rents paid in respect of a particular small dwelling and to hand over these rents to the local authority in satisfaction of rates due. Under certain circumstances, where it is impossible to get the agent to do this because of his absence from the country or for any other reason, a a similar order may be issued on the occupier of the house requiring him to hand over the rents due to the owner until such time as the claim for rates is satisfied. I think the new section meets in a satisfactory way the points raised by Senator Sir John Keane on the Committee Stage.
I think the amendment is reasonable. It relieves the agent of individual liability, and I think I am correct in stating that it, in fact, garnishees the rates.
Amendment agreed to.
Amendment 11—Government Amendment:—
Section 5, Sub-section (1). To delete in lines 1-2 the words "commencing at the expiration of one month after the making of such rate," and to substitute therefor the words "hereinafter specified."
Amendment agreed to.
Amendment 12—Government Amendment:—
Section 5, sub-section (1). To insert after the sub-section a new sub-section as follows:—
"(2) The twelve months mentioned in the foregoing sub-section shall be the twelve months commencing at whichever of the following times is the later, that is to say, the expiration of one month from the making of the rate or the expiration of fourteen days from the furnishing in accordance with this Act to the owner of the small dwelling in relation to which the said twelve months are being calculated of particulars of such rate in respect of such small dwelling."
I think this amendment meets in a satisfactory way the points raised on the Committee Stage with regard to fixing the date from which the owner will be entitled to add on the increase to the rent in respect of a particular rated year.
CATHAOIRLEACH
This deals with the point raised by Senator Sir John Keane in Committee.
The amendment, I think, is quite satisfactory.
Amendment agreed to.
Amendment 13, by leave, withdrawn.
I move Amendment 14:—
New section. Before Section 7 to insert a new section as follows:—
"7.—The rating authority shall repay to an owner that portion of the rates comprised in any rent which remains irrecoverable after full recourse to legal proceedings."
This is the only point on which the Minister and myself have not been able to come to an agreement. For that reason, the House may feel inclined to have considerable sympathy with the Minister owing to the number of amendments on which he has met me and met the House. I would ask the House to differentiate in this respect between quantity and quality. There is a large element of quality, but not much quantity, in this amendment. It is quite a simple proposition. It is that the owner under the Bill when it becomes law will be bound to bear the burden of irrecoverable rates. I ask the House to take the view that it is an unjust burden and may be a very large one. I consider that it is in no way met by the 10 per cent. poundage which the owner is to get for the duty of collection. The poundage is given for all the trouble and extra work involved in making the collection.
This question of irrecoverable rates is really the basis of the whole Bill. It is because these irrecoverable rates are so heavy that the Bill is brought in at all. Everyone who has ever acted as a member of a county council knows of the trouble there is in dealing with these small occupiers who have got little or no goods and who are no mark for the sheriff. They will be a mark for ejectment if the Seanad is satisfied that that is a desirable process. I am afraid it is a process that will have to be resorted to to a considerable extent. In cases where the rates cannot be recovered ejectment will follow much more harshly for them than as regards the recovery of rent which is largely a personal matter. I hope the House will support this amendment, and ensure that the owner is recouped by the local authority for rates that he has to pay himself and which he cannot recover.
The Minister, on the last day, gave me to understand that he would be able to give the House some figures, not for the whole country, but for certain areas of it with regard to the volume of irrecoverable rates. My information is that in some districts they amount to a considerable figure. In the county with which I am acquainted the total amount of irrecoverable rates in one year was £1,400. I do not think it would be overestimating if I were to say that £1,000 of that was in respect of this class of small dwellings. If that is so, then the position in the future will be that that sum of £1,000 is going to come out of the pockets of the owners. That, I suggest, would be a harsh burden to place upon them. I would remind the House that these owners are not big men with ample resources. They are often small men who own perhaps three or four or five houses which they purchased out of their hard-earned savings.
The amendment, in my opinion, is not a reasonable one and I intend to oppose it. The owner is already provided for, because if the occupier does not pay the rates he has power to eject him and let the house to someone who will be willing to pay. I do not think the principle in the amendment to let the owner go scot free and to hold up the house until such time as he can get the rent he wants, is a right one. I do not think that principle should be admitted in this Bill.
I put it strongly to the Seanad that in giving a rebate of one-tenth of the total rate payable we are meeting the owners not only to any extent which they may justly be met because of any additional work thrown upon them—I do not think that the work will be very much—but that we are meeting them also in respect of any other contingencies which may arise. This is not really a question of the irrecoverability of the rates. The point involved in the amendment is the suggestion that there is a big amount of irrecoverable rents to be dealt with in the country. I do not think that we can take cognizance of that, because this Bill only deals with the question of rates. If this amendment were to be embodied in the Bill it would complicate the rates situation unnecessarily. I suggest that the 10 per cent. is an ample margin to allow to cover any small amounts of irrecoverable rates that there may be.
On the last day I said I would get some particulars as far as they might be got, but the figures that I have obtained do not, I am afraid, bear very much on the situation. However, for the information of the Seanad, I will give the figures that I have got. They refer to certain urban districts and to certain county councils in the country. They give the total amounts of irrecoverable rates for certain years in these districts. They deal with cases under £6 valuation. In the case of Ballinasloe urban district, for the half year ending March, 1928, the total amount of irrecoverable rates was £43, and of this £25 related to cases under £6 valuation, the percentage being 58. In the case of Cashel urban district, in the year 1927/28 the total amount of irrecoverable rates was £120; cases under £6 valuation £102, or 85 per cent. In Castlebar urban district, in the year 1927/28, the total amount of irrecoverable rates was £78; cases under £6 valuation £63, or 81 per cent. In Clonmel for the year 1925/26 the amount was £136 10s.; cases under £6 valuation £72 11s. 5d., or 53 per cent. In Clonmel for 1926/27 the amount was £164; cases under £6 valuation £75 4s. 7d., or 46 per cent. In Drogheda in 1925/26 the amount was £427 10s. 4d; cases under £6 valuation, £159 15s. 5d., or 37.5 per cent. In Drogheda for 1926/27 the amount was £730 6s. 6d.; cases under £6 valuation £224 1s. 2d., or 30.5 per cent. In Dungarvan for 1925/26 the amount was £447; cases under £6 valuation £447, or 100 per cent. In Dungarvan for 1926/27 the total was £493; and cases under £6 valuation the same figure, or 100 per cent. In Fermoy in 1925/26 the total was £686 13s. 5d.; cases under £6 valuation £353 18s. 1d., or 51.5 per cent. In 1926/27 the amount was £716 17s. 5d., and in cases under £6 valuation £400 11s. 10d. With regard to county councils in the period 1927/28 the total amount of irrecoverable rates in the case of Dublin County Council was £3,221; cases under £6 valuation £191, or 5.9 per cent. of the total. Mayo County Council in 1925/26 the total was £755; cases under £6 valuation £123, or 16.3 per cent. In Mayo for 1926/27 the amount was £530; in cases under £6 valuation £147, or 28 per cent. In the case of Waterford County Council in the year 1925/26 the amount was £960; cases under £6 valuation £537, or 56 per cent. In Waterford in the year 1926/27 the total was £1,210; cases under £6 valuation £587, or 48.5 per cent. of the total.
Waterford seems to have been a particularly difficult area in the matter. It, however, does not bear on the general principle in the Bill, which is, that we have to deal with the matter in a fair and equitable way. I submit that the 10 per cent. should cover all contingencies for the owner.
I am glad to have the figures given by the Minister. They seem to be rather uneven and do not cover the whole of the country, but from them perhaps one may get a fair percentage figure. I think that the figures for Dungarvan are certainly rather striking. The whole amount of the irrecoverable rates there amounting, as well as I could catch the Minister's figure, to over £400, is on small dwellings. Dungarvan is a rather small place, with a population of, I suppose, three or four thousand people. I ask the Seanad to accept the view that to cast an annual burden of over £400 on the owners of the small houses there is a rather serious thing. It is a heavy annual burden to transfer to the owners, who are all very small people.
I would suggest to the Senator that under the new arrangement these rates will be recoverable, because they will be collected in weekly amounts instead of half-yearly as at present.
It will be easier to collect them, I admit, to that extent. I am afraid there will be an element of harsh evictions involved, and the owners of property, rightly or wrongly, will be blamed for discharging a responsibility which, I think, should be placed on shoulders other than the owners. That is the only point I wish to make.
Amendment put and declared lost.
Amendment 15—Government Amendment:—
New section. Before Section 9 to insert a new section as follows:—
"9.—(1) Whenever the owner of a small dwelling who is not also the occupier of such dwelling pays to the rating authority or to a person on their behalf nine-tenths of the amount of a rate made by virtue of this Act on him in respect of such dwelling within three months after the making of such rate or within two months after the furnishing to him in accordance with this Act of particulars of such rate in respect of such dwelling, such rate shall be deemed to have been fully paid and satisfied by such payment, and such payment shall be accepted by such rating authority or such person accordingly.
(2) The provisions of this section shall be in addition to and not in substitution for the provisions of any other enactment (whether public, general, local, or personal, public or private) enabling a rate to be discharged by payment of a fraction thereof within a limited time, but not so as to entitle any person to relief under this section and under such other enactment in respect of the same rate."
This amendment contains the provision to give the one-tenth rebate in respect of rates paid under this Bill by an owner inside a particular period of time.
Amendment agreed to.