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Seanad Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 10 Oct 1928

Vol. 10 No. 29

PUBLIC BUSINESS. - HARBOUR FOR HIGH-SPEED TRANSATLANTIC PASSENGER AND MAIL SERVICES.

I move:

That the Government be requested to consider the proposals of Senator Sir John Griffith with a view to establishing forthwith a national terminal harbour at Galway for high-speed transatlantic passenger and mail services.

The position at present is that Ireland in spite of the advantages of its position and harbours so far as transatlantic trade is concerned is practically a sea suburb of Liverpool. It is a day or two nearer to America, depending on the speed of the ships, and yet all European bound ships go around this country and leave it marooned. As Sir John Griffith has pointed out, there would be a saving of time and money to English companies —a saving amounting to one and a half millions to any company running six ships, that is a bi-weekly service. Slower ships would be given the advantage of using Galway instead of Liverpool. That is a matter for the English companies, whose interest in the existing ports is too strong. One might as well expect Lord Aberdeen to provide the Shannon scheme as to expect the English shipping companies to strip their docks in Liverpool and come to Galway. If it is to be done at all it has to be done from other considerations which will constrain the shipping companies to consider the advantages of the position of this island. The competition for shipping is in the North Atlantic at present. In no case can ships create a harbour, but harbours can create trade. By providing a harbour on the West of Ireland we can induce the more enterprising of the two shipping companies which are competing to use that harbour. It is not generally known that sixty-four per cent. of tourists who leave America go to the Continent never touch the British Isles. In the case of that sort of tourist trade if vessels were diverted to Galway it would save a day, two days or two and a half days. If you had a terminal port there, if only for mail services, it should pay, for that would avoid the delay that is caused by fog outside Liverpool, and it would provide the advantage of a quick transport from Galway to Dublin.

I should think that if the railways showed as much enterprise as they could afford, and with a little trade to justify it, Dublin could easily be brought within three hours of Barna. Senator Sir John Griffith with his experience showed the advantages of Barna and its advantageous situation as regards the material for constructing a Transatlantic port. There are heavy lodes of granite in the vicinity of Barna deep water, and sea room for manoeuvring. The advantages from the shipping point of view are nil at present. The only advantage that can arise is to create competition by putting a harbour near to the source of traffic, and that is America. Remember that the south-west of Connemara is the most poverty-stricken and pestilential part of this country. If relief is to be given to the Gaeltacht in that district the aim should be at putting it on an economic basis. I cannot think of any better relief than putting down a work which, not only would not have the fate of all relief works, whether for ornament or otherwise, but which would be useful and would open to the light of day the south-west of Connemara. The construction of a big harbour there would be about one-sixth of the cost of the Shannon scheme and less than one-fourth of the money already expended on roads. The estimate suggested comes to about two millions of money. Certain people who are interested in foreign shipping reaching Ireland suggested one and a half millions when it was proposed to link it up by an air service.

When one goes to see the works on the Shannon it is a revelation to realise what extraordinary work can be done, and what the immense resources of this country really are when coupled with enterprise and determination. To see that man-made Niagara at Ardnacrusha would do one good, and when you think at the same time that the prosperity of the country is not so intimately bound up with the creation of an electricity supply as with the breaking down of what is really the key-note of our whole position, and a thing on which the existence of the Free State depends, that is the stranglehold of outside shipping, it will be seen how urgently necessary it is to direct those resources to this relief. Any country depending for sea-borne trade on shipping, and freights which cannot be controlled, is being constantly stultified when imposing tariffs. Every tariff we create is turned against us if we cannot call the tune of the freights.

You put a tariff of 33? per cent. on boots, but the freight on boots coming to this country is £2 a ton readymade, while when we send out for the raw hide the cost is £8 a ton. Where is your 33? per cent? So far from being a free country, England's customs houses are on the sea—not her revenue is an index of her wealth, but the returns of the earnings of her mercantile marine. There is some excuse for me arriving at that conclusion so late in the day, because it took Arthur Griffith so many years to realise that it was not the revenue returns gave any indication of England's wealth but her mercantile marine. This country is completely in the hands of the mercantile marine of another country, which, no matter how friendly, is bound to give the shareholders at least 5 per cent. dividend on their investment. Many of the ships concerned in our trade were bought when they were four times dearer than they would be now; hence the great advance per head in the freight of cattle going to Liverpool.

Galway is not concerned with the cattle trade, but it is concerned with the maintenance of competition between the shipping companies, and I maintain that competition there will reduce freights and give advantages to the customer. At present there is no competition whatever. There is not a single company in Ireland except the Limerick Steamship Company, in the hands of the Irish people, which is vitally engaged in the country's prosperity. A western port would have another advantage, and this is important when one thinks that the death of civilisation is caused by the trekking towards the cities. It is estimated that with our good roads that within 50 miles of Dublin there will be a general exodus from the country into the city. That is not healthy. In a small country it is disastrous. If you had a western Liverpool in Galway, as Ireland's position would justify, you would have a balance; you would have an agricultural country within such easy reach of the city that the people might be satisfied to remain in agricultural districts, and not trek in and swell all that is associated with big cities. That is the chief advantage.

The gist of my motion is that this cannot be done without Government enterprise just as the Shannon scheme was carried out. It cannot be done by the English shipping companies, as they are not interested. It is better for them to spend the 24 hours outside the Mersey than go out of their circuit. Liverpool is already suffering from Southampton. If my proposal is carried out it will suffer more, but really not finally suffer at all for this reason: The saving, according to Senator Sir John Griffith's figures in the running of ships, would make up for any loss that they might have for the dereliction of one or two docks there. It is not a case of kid gloves. It is a case of competition and of using this country's natural advantages, because for many years the railways have fallen short of any deep-water harbours there are. The history of Galway recalls competition of such a kind as was not perhaps very honourable. Ships coming from New York were snatched up to prevent them getting into Galway, and one that did get in was run on the only rock in the harbour. I have not gone into the figures, which is a matter for experts, but the important thing to which I wish to draw attention is that the natural position of this country presents Europe to America almost 24 hours earlier than any other country. We should bear in mind that it is not British-bound trade can be got by bringing Europe nearer to America, but 64 per cent.—the predominating trade —Europe-bound Americans may come here.

I have said nothing about the air because it is a moot point if air services have not reached as much perfection as the nature of the services will permit. All air services are handicapped by the fact that the aircraft have to maintain their own weight in the elements. It is different with shipping. If you increase the aeroplane in size you do not do more than double the carrying capacity. If you increase a ship to twice its size you multiply its carrying capacity by eight. I may say that there are at present in existence machines in Frederichshaven to carry 60 passengers. If you wish to have these machines waiting in Galway, and a ship coming from America to Galway in four days, the capitals of Europe are only four days and nine hours from America. Three of these would carry 180 passengers, and that would pay any company. As long as we do not allow this country to continue in its present position of being marooned, freights that are now a stranglehold on our trade will fall as competition increases. As long as the cost of sea-transport of our external trade remains in the hand of an external power all our tariff and protective measures can be stultified by a pro rata increase in freights.

I second the motion.

I am afraid I am bound to speak against the motion. Nobody would be happier than I if an Irish port could be made the main port to deal with Transatlantic traffic. I believe if any port were in that position this way would be the right way. The proposed port suffered from certain disadvantages to which other ports in the past have been open. On principle I could not vote for this motion, because it involves requesting the Government to spend very large sums of public money on a commercial venture of an extremely risky character. If the case was so good as represented it would be done long ago. The very fact that it remains undone, and can only be done by the Government and public money, is what put me against it. Besides, I have grave doubts of the success of any such scheme for certain reasons which occurred to me, as having some knowledge of the reasons why people choose certain routes of travel and avoid others. Although there would be a saving in time, it is extremely questionable if that saving in time would compensate for other things. In the first place, with regard to passengers in a great hurry to get to their destination, I doubt if the saving in time would compensate them in the case of Great Britain. There would be two additional changes there, and in the case of Continental Europe four. That would be a very serious thing.

In addition, instead of landing at the ultimate port of landing in the ship in which they started, they would have Galway, Kingstown and Holyhead to deal with in the case of Great Britain, and Dover and Calais if they were going on to the Continent of Europe. That would be all very tiring and very harrassing, and I think a venture of that kind in Transatlantic service would really fail to capture the bulk of the passenger traffic.

As regards traffic other than passengers, Liverpool has been talked of a great deal in this connection. Liverpool is one of the greatest ports in the world, but it is by no means the greatest port. It has great physical drawbacks as a port. It has very great objection from that point of view, but it has great commercial advantages by reason of the fact that it has Lancashire and Yorkshire behind it, where an enormous amount of goods are made, which goods have to be exported by the shortest route. I am afraid I cannot say that there is anything in Ireland now, or that there is likely to be anything, which will ever compete with Lancashire and Yorkshire as an attraction for ships for return cargoes, and consequently a venture of the kind advocated by the motion is really thrown back upon passenger traffic which looks for the most rapid transit possible, and I do not think that that is a good enough thing to justify a very big expenditure of public money. It is a very risky thing, and it must be remembered that while for years the bulk of the people going to the Continent from America, or a large proportion of them, came to Liverpool, went across England, and then took ship again to some Channel port, the shipping companies found some years ago that a desire to get to the last point and to do all the sea journey in the same ship was so strong that they abandoned Liverpool where they had been going for years, and went to Southampton, from which their ships went to Cherbourg. A scheme like this would be the very negation of that system, and for that reason with regret I find myself compelled to vote against the motion.

As Senator Gogarty has mentioned my name in connection with this motion, I think the Seanad will expect me to say something about it. I do think that there can be no division of opinion in our minds as to the desirability, if it is possible, of passing as large a number of American passengers through this country as possible. Our isolated condition has been a drawback to us in the past, and many of us longed to see more passenger traffic passing through this country. It may be said, of course, that we have a very efficient service in connection with the Transatlantic trade, with a number of steamers that call at Cork, Moville and Belfast, but when we come to analyse it, it appears that the attraction to these boats to touch Ireland is simply to take advantage of our losses in emigration. They come here to capture a trade which is represented by something like 26,000 emigrants annually. That is not the direction in which I have ever thought of the importance of the Transatlantic service by high-speed passenger and mail service to the western side of this country. I have looked forward to it as a tremendous advantage, if it can be accomplished, to our people and to our country at large. It would inevitably lead to a considerable influx of visitors to the country, and necessarily of money passing through it.

I should like, with the permission of the Seanad, to read a short preface which I wrote in connection with this subject in the year 1923 when I published the second edition of a pamphlet on sites for a Western port:—

The first edition of this paper was published in March, 1918, during the Great War. The submarine menace had reached its most acute stage. The food supplies of the British Isles were within a measurable distance of exhaustion. Germany was making its final bid for supremacy, and the Americans had but recently thrown in their lot with the Allies.

As an Irish Lights Commissioner I had during the war sailed round Ireland. I had witnessed the destruction caused by the German submarines, and was impressed by the urgent need of additional harbour accommodation on the western shores of Ireland, capable of being used for defensive purposes and for safeguarding our trade routes and food supplies.

The object of this paper was to concentrate attention on this need, to stimulate interest in the problems connected with the proposal, and to examine impartially the various sites which have from time to time been proposed for a Transatlantic mail port in Ireland.

It was then hoped to induce the British Government to make such provision for the safety of the United Kingdom, and at the same time provide the means for establishing a direct passenger and mail traffic, which must have proved of great benefit to Ireland.

Conditions have altered since March, 1918. The war has ended. The pressure on England has been relieved, and English interests in the problem may be dismissed from discussion, except as regards the opposition of vested interests. It must now be viewed as a Free State problem.

Do the interests of the Free State warrant the construction of such a western harbour? Do the interests at stake justify the costly outlay on the necessary works, and the establishment of the direct service of shipping?

I believe the answer to be in "the affirmative."

What, then, are the reasons for the formation of a terminal western Transatlantic mail and passenger port, and why do they appear more urgent now that Ireland is a Free State than before the severance of the Union? Why do the words of Viscount Morley, "Do not let Ireland be pushed off the great high road between the west and the east," come with greater force now than when they were uttered in 1892? I think the following reasons may be given:—

(1) Ireland by her independence has become more dissociated from English interests.

(2) All the principal Transatlantic liners are English-owned and have their home ports in England. They, therefore, are financially interested in making their terminal ports in England.

(3) They are naturally opposed to a terminal port in Ireland, and are even desirous of abandoning a stoppage at any Irish ports of call.

(4) The time spent in making for a port of call in Ireland is seldom compensated for by the revenue from passengers or mails to or from such a port of call.

(5) The struggle for the American-Continental passenger traffic accentuates the desire to pass Ireland without a call.

(6) The shortening of the time in transit by the adoption of a western port and the resulting economics are the principal reasons that can be held out from the traffic point of view for the proposed development; and the question is, can these be substantiated?

(7) Experience proves that mails and passengers will follow the fastest and most efficient routes. The slow vessels will continue to follow existing routes; but if an Irish service is established and maintained as a premier line for speed and comfort there can be little doubt that it would prove successful.

(8) Ireland is the landing-place of several Transatlantic submarine electric cables. Ireland has been a principal station for Transatlantic wireless telegraphy. Ireland has been the landing-place of the first direct Transatlantic flight, and Ireland should be the principal "bridgehead" for the Transatlantic passenger and mail traffic between America and Europe.

(9) From the purely commercial point of view the saving of time in the Irish-American mail service will prove an important consideration, and there can be no doubt that the north of England and Scotland would be better served by such a service than by any line via Southampton or any other southern English port.

(10) With this accomplished, a stream of passenger traffic would pass through Ireland which could not fail to be beneficial to the country. Although a very considerable portion of such traffic would pass directly through the country on its way to England, yet there can be little doubt but that a large and increasing tourist traffic would be developed and fostered. The "Old Home" love would play an important part in such development.

(11) The value of tourist traffic to Ireland, if developed on sound lines, can hardly be disputed. Given easy access and facilities for travel and good hotel accommodation, there is no reason why Ireland should not rank amongst the most favoured tourist resorts. Placed on the thoroughfare of American-European passenger traffic in the manner proposed, the necessary access will be afforded.

(12) A deep-sea fishery harbour should be included in this western port, which, given proper equipment and up-to-date transit facilities, would place our west coast deep-sea fisheries in as favourable a position to the English markets as Aberdeen and Grimsby provide for the North Sea fishing fleets. This was the principal object of the publication of this pamphlet, and the outcome may be mentioned in the concluding words:

"We have endeavoured to give an impartial description of the various sites which have from time to time been proposed for the Western port, and have largely drawn from the official Admiralty sailing directions. We have also considered the relative advantages of these sites under the heads (1) depth and area; (2) facility of approach; (3) shelter; (4) position of the proposed port; (5) capacity for development; (6) facilities for bunkering, commissariat and repairs.

"We have come to the conclusion that, if an efficient artificial sheltering breakwater is constructed, Galway Bay affords the best site for the proposed Transatlantic terminal port in combination with a deep-sea fishery harbour."

Senator Gogarty has asked the Government to consider, and since reading his motion I have been wondering what the consideration was that was chiefly in his mind. It has occurred to me that it would be perfectly fair to ask the Government to consider this harbour in connection with the following items: Let them decide as to the desirability of a western port; let us know their opinion about it; let them consider and decide on the feasibility of forming such a port and its site; let them begin with the question of financing such a port and the control of such a port, and also what help the Free State could give. These are the principal points which I have desired to bring before the Government from time to time. I think at the present time there is a likelihood of a great struggle for the supremacy of the Transatlantic trade between German-built vessels and English-built vessels, and the question of their maintenance and upkeep becomes one of enormous importance. I am not going to bother you with figures about it, because they would be of little use to you, but they are worthy of the consideration of the Government, and I think if they would ask the Ports and Harbours Tribunal, which is at present sitting and has heard evidence in connection with this subject, certainly from representatives of Cork—I am not sure about the North of Ireland—but from others they have a good deal of information as to these ports which would be of great assistance to the Government. I cannot help thinking that it is worth their while to do this thing dispassionately. I have endeavoured as far as I am concerned to rid my mind of many hindrances that appeared in the first instance, and I think that I have in great measure satisfied myself that for economic reasons a very high-speed mail service can be run with advantage between Galway and Halifax. It is for these reasons that I rather welcome Senator Gogarty's motion that the whole problem might be taken up by the Government dispassionately.

I would like to make a few remarks with regard to this most interesting motion. It is merely a suggestion that the Government be asked to consider the proposals, and I hope that the suggestion will be unanimously passed. I had sent up to the office of the Seanad another motion on a subject that would not clash with this with regard to bases for aeroplanes and seaplanes that we are taking up in a very practical manner in Cork. This very day, if I mistake not, the engineer of the Harbour Board is submitting to the Board suggestions in connection with what has accrued since the visit of Colonel Russell, and I hope something will be derived therefrom. Possibly in the future, be it longer or shorter, the Government will see their way to expend money on Galway, which I understand will cost about half the amount that is being spent on the Shannon scheme—perhaps a couple of millions. It would be of great advantage not only to the Galway people but to the rest of Ireland. But in the meantime there are practical suggestions from the South of Ireland that I hope to submit. I hope that this motion will pass.

I think that the motion is rather restricted, and I suggest, with the permission of the House, that it should be amended to read: "That the Government be requested to consider the practicability of establishing a national terminal port at Galway for high speed Transatlantic passenger and mail services." As it is, the motion practically asks the Government to confine its investigations to the proposals of Senator Sir John Griffith, which I have read with a great deal of interest; but if they make any investigation I would like them to take all practical proposals into consideration and view them from other points of view than those submitted by the Senator.

On reading Senator Sir John Griffith's pamphlet on the matter I found that, whilst the engineering aspects of it have been attended to, the geographical situation and so forth and the saving in time for Transatlantic steamers have been taken into account, no estimate is made as to the amount it would cost, and there is also, of course, left out the question of arrangements with Transatlantic lines of steamers. For instance, if we had such a port, one of the finest ports in the world, the question would then arise of having it utilised by Transatlantic steamers. Of course in addition to that there are to be considered the railway connections, both in Ireland and in Great Britain, as well as the crossings of the two additional strips of water in the case of Continental passengers.

But, apart from these considerations, we have to look at the fact that the West of Ireland has no port capable of accommodating a Transatlantic liner, and this is at any time a serious consideration. In time of war it would be one of vital consideration for the well-being of the country. If those steamers have always to come round the extreme south to the eastern ports it will in times of war result in greater risks from submarines, mines, and hostile sea and aircraft. From the point of view of safety it is very desirable, if at all practicable, to have at least one port on the west that would be able to receive the produce which we require from the American continent.

I would look therefore, for the development of a harbour like Galway as one method of national defence or of self-preservation in times of peril arising out of war. There is, of course, the certainty that the whole of the Irish emigrant traffic to America would pass through that port, as well as returning emigrants. But in addition to that there is a possibility, almost a certainty, that a large section of American tourist traffic, which is now one of the great items in international passenger traffic, might in the new conditions break their journey in Ireland on their way to the Continent and spend their holidays here, which they do not do at present because they land on the Continent. The same might apply to them in regard to Great Britain; they might take the short route to Great Britain via Galway, break their journey there, cross to the Continent, and pick up a steamer on the way back at Hamburg, Antwerp or Bremen. In that way there certainly would be a chance of tapping that great flow of American tourist traffic. That is not now possible because of our failure to supply a decent port.

There would be, I believe, certain lines of steamers that might have rather intermittent services to Galway, not very regular services, because they could not get very large numbers of passengers to travel, but they would, I think, get a sufficient number to travel that way to enable them to maintain a fairly decent service. Then, of course, for epicures in travel and those who desire to have the very fastest possible way of travelling, there would be the question of Galway being an air port, of passengers arriving from New York or Halifax and going by air to the Continent, which would, of course, shorten their journey considerably and would constitute a journey that many American tourists would like to make. It is a big proposition financially, and the possibilities arising out of it are big. I think for these reasons we shall do no harm, at all events, while we may do some good, by passing the motion in the more extended form that I have suggested. It is a matter that primarily, I think, might go before the Harbours Tribunal, but a motion of this kind might induce the Government to give added powers to them to go more intimately into this question than they now can under their terms of reference. At the same time I think a word of praise is due to Senator Sir John Griffith and his colleague—I think it is his brother—for the immense amount of trouble they have gone to in investigating the possibilities of Galway at their own expense, and for the expense they have incurred in issuing pamphlets in connection with this matter and in distributing them free. It certainly is a most admirable and patriotic service that they have rendered.

It would be a pity if all their labours and expense went without any serious consideration, or if they were not availed of to the best possible advantage by the Government and the country as a whole.

Senator O'Farrell has put into words what I have been thinking about. The resolution, as it stands, requests the Government to consider the proposal of Senator Sir John Griffith with a view to establishing forthwith a national terminal harbour at Galway for high-speed Transatlantic passenger and mail services. In other words, the proposal is that we should recommend the Government to put their hands in our pockets and in the pockets of the country and spend two or three million pounds in establishing a harbour there. I think we are all agreed as to the greatness of the project. With the development that there has been in air traffic, fast steamers, and so on, as well as in view of the various points touched upon by Senator Sir John Griffith, I think we are all agreed that the project is one of vital importance. It is quite right that the Government should give it their attention. They should look into all these matters well ahead and see what they can do with regard to them. But Senator Sir John Griffith did not, I think, suggest that the Government should proceed forthwith in making a national harbour there. If they did decide to make certain proposals the matter would have to be debated. We would have to examine the financial aspects of it. I think that we are spending quite enough money at present. At the same time I think the Government could do a great deal along the line that Senator Sir John Griffith indicated. They could probe the problem and see how it meets modern conditions. They could make investigations that might result in encouraging other people to come in to see whether it is possible to formulate such a favourable proposition that moneyed people in America and elsewhere might be got to provide the capital required. I would not like to vote for the resolution as it stands, because it could be quoted afterwards and said that we had asked the Government to put their hands in the pockets of the people to enable them to spend two or three millions on this scheme for Galway. At the same time, I think that the Government can give a tremendous amount of valuable assistance, but I think that the Seanad ought to pass the resolution in such a way as to leave the money question out for the present.

CATHAOIRLEACH

I would like to know from Senator Gogarty if he would be prepared to amend the motion in the form suggested by Senator O'Farrell: that the Government be requested to consider the practicability of establishing a national terminal harbour at Galway for high-speed Transatlantic passenger and mail services.

I think that no matter how the Government consider this or how far afield they may go they can hardly improve on the investigations made by Senator Sir John Griffith. He has sounded the different ports from Barna as far as Spiddal. He has investigated the conditions of water power in the fall of Lough Corrib, and the geological conditions of its environment. So that I was just as broad in getting in Senator Sir John Griffith as the Government. I would be delighted to give them every facility provided they considered them. One objection to the scheme urged by Senator Bagwell was that he thought it would mean that a great deal of public money would be wasted. I was limiting the cost to one and a half millions, which is really the price of one of those ocean-going liners. In other words, it would be the case of a shopkeeper providing himself with a shop for the price of a suit for one of his customers. I think that is a point of view that we cannot overlook in view of the fact that on the roads we have spent £5,000,000 and on the Shannon it is possible the expenditure will be £7,000,000. It has also to be considered that sooner or later a great deal of expenditure must take place in dealing with this part of the Gaeltacht. To carry out the recommendations of the Gaeltacht Commission would be nearly as expensive as the proposal contemplated here. If the proposal in the motion is carried out it will give relief to that district, relief that will not alone be permanent but that will put them in a better position than they are in at present, because it will, as it were, let in the air to that part of southern Connemara which wants it so much. The people there are living under conditions which are a disgrace to the rest of the country. That is not the fault of the people themselves but rather of the quality of the land they hold.

Another objection that Senator Bagwell made was as to the disinclination of tourists to leave their ships. It ought to be our desire to get them into the country and let them get out the best way they can. Possibly on account of the tourist arrangements the bulk of travellers go to Genoa or Naples on their way through Europe, and go home from Cherbourg without calling at Britain at all. These people after their rubber-neck tour around the Continent would come to Ireland. If we got them in from America in four days we could have a slow service to take the other people back, for not alone will Galway feed itself from the British tourists but it will make a bid for the other sixty-four per cent. who never, under the present circumstances, go to Britain at all. It is a strange anomaly that I should pretend to be putting myself in the position of giving advice to British companies, but in that competition which is coming they are up against the Lloyd and the Hamburg American Lines. If we can put out an arm where their ships can enter we would be doing a good thing for the country and possibly for those ships. If they stay in their own ports they will be merely fighting and leave this country to one line of shipping alone. Senator O'Farrell's point is very important. In order to keep wages low, England is electing to feed its citizens from the Argentine. In the event of war the Atlantic food routes would be cut more quickly in the Channel. If Galway port were used by food ships food supplies could be more easily protected on the way to England.

I think it would be a mistake to adopt the resolution put before us by Senator Gogarty for the reason that he has excluded every place else but Galway. Galway is the only place the Government is asked to investigate. In my recollection a great many other schemes have been put forward—Blacksod Bay and others. From one point of view Blacksod Bay was extremely attractive, and if carried out would give the shortest route to England. I think it would be a mistake to ask the Government to investigate the case of Galway alone. The whole question of a Transatlantic port should be gone into, and latitude should be given in the matter and not have one port only specified.

CATHAOIRLEACH

Do you propose any amendment to the motion?

I have not the motion before me.

CATHAOIRLEACH

The motion might be altered to read: "with a view to establishing a national terminal harbour at Galway or other suitable place."

The fact is that Galway has been decided on by a Commission. It is only three hours from Dublin and is the quickest of the western harbours. It is the nearest to America and the quickest to Dublin. I do not wish to adopt Senator Guinness's suggestion for it is on the findings of the Commission which favoured Galway that I put forward Senator Sir John Griffith's proposal.

CATHAOIRLEACH

It would not follow they would in any sense be bound by the findings of the Commission if they went into this. They would go into it with their minds fresh. I am not suggesting Galway is not the best port, but I do not see what harm it is to leave out the reference to Galway and let the motion read: "That the Government be requested to consider the practicability of establishing a national terminal harbour for high-speed Transatlantic passenger and mail services."

They want a free port in Dublin, so that they will not be subject to Transatlantic competition in the North Atlantic.

I suggest that the further consideration of this matter be adjourned for a week.

The Senator wants to dredge Cork Harbour.

I am entirely in favour of Galway being left in, but I must vote against any motion that puts in the words "national harbour." I would not vote against the motion if the word "national" is left out.

I will leave out the word "national." I do not want to be wandering all over the country and ending up in Cork.

CATHAOIRLEACH

The motion as amended now reads: "That the Government be requested to consider the practicability of establishing a terminal harbour at Galway for high-speed Transatlantic passenger and mail services."

Motion, as amended, put and agreed to.
The Seanad adjourned at 5.45 p.m.
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