I move:—
That it is expedient that a Joint Committee of the Seanad and the Dáil be set up to investigate the hardships inflicted on Irish migratory labourers consequent on the fact that they cannot draw unemployment insurance benefit in Ireland in respect of contributions paid on their behalf while in Great Britain, and to report on the most suitable methods to alleviate these hardships:
That seven Senators represent the Seanad on the said Joint Committee.
I need not stress the urgency that there is for dealing with this matter owing to the dire want of these poor people as a result of the failure of the British Government to give them benefits. I will confine myself to the facts as I found them on looking through the files. The trouble originated in about 1922, with the establishment of the Saorstát, but even though there was some trouble at that time I believe that the British Government continued to pay these people benefit up to some time about 1924. I find that there are in or about 14,000 migratory labourers who leave this country annually for periods of six, eight or ten months, and of that 14,000 I believe that almost a half—at any rate, over a third—come from Mayo, and that they contribute, or there is contributed on their behalf, an annual sum of £17,700. To these poor people that is undoubtedly an enormous amount of money, and is a terrible drain on their means. I find also that on December 19th, 1924, a Question was asked in the Dáil by Deputy Tomás Mac Eoin—I presume he is the present Senator Johnson—and in his reply Mr. McGilligan stated—it is a very lengthy reply and I propose only to take some quotations from it —"The numbers of persons in respect of whom this liability fell on the Saorstát was, so far as could be estimated, about 14,000.... Correspondence proceeded over a great part of 1922, and early in 1923 a conference to consider the matter was held in London. At that conference, the British side did agree in principle to a reciprocal arrangement involving a financial adjustment; admitted that the adjustment would always necessitate a payment to the Irish Free State ... and contemplated that the best arrangement would be the payment to the Saorstát of an annual lump sum repreSenting the excess of unexhausted contributions in the British Fund paid by Saorstát workers over the unexhausted contributions of British workers in the unemployment fund of this country ... we duly forwarded an estimate showing that the contributions paid in Great Britain for these migratory workers would amount to about £17,700 per annum. ... Eventually the Ministry of Labour refused to make any arrangement involving financial adjustment and has not since indicated any change in its attitude." So that you will see that between the two Governments these people have not been catered for.
You can see the agreement that the British Government made, but they actually broke through it when they found it would mean that they would have to put their hands in their pockets to pay a greater sum than the Free State would have to pay in return under the reciprocal arrangement. However, as far as the British Government is concerned the fact of the matter is that these people pay at the rate of about 9d. per head, that is, 4d. for the labourer, 4d. for the employer, and 1d. for the State. In any case, after the agreement was come to definitely in 1923 as a result of the conference, the British Government broke through that agreement. I believe that there honour did not count very much with them, and it would be no harm if we had something of the same conscience as far as our Ministers are concerned in dealing with the British Government in the case of the land annuities and the R.I.C. pensions, but I do not intend to go into that now.
In following up this subject further we find that in Article 9 of the Ultimate Financial Settlement it is stated: "The Government of the Irish Free State agree to pay to the British Government so much of the deficit of the Unemployment Fund of the United Kingdom as may be attributable to the Irish Free State on the basis of the relative proportions of the insured populations of the two countries as at 31st March, 1922 with interest thereon from that date." So that, in the Ultimate Financial Settlement, you have another case of this country paying her debt of honour, even in spite of the fact that three years previously the British Government, when they found that it interfered with their financial interests, absolutely withdrew from the agreement which they had with the Irish Government. I find in the records at the time of the Ultimate Financial Settlement that there was a deficit in the English Unemployment Insurance Fund of over £13,500,000. Of course, that came about as a result of the abnormal unemployment in England within the last eight, nine or ten years, in order to cater for which they had what was called uncovenanted benefit. What is meant by uncovenanted benefit are contributions not actually paid by these people, but which will be paid later when they resume work. In any event, the Free State Government agreed to pay their share, with interest thereon, from the date in question. So that you see that in all the relations between this country and the British Government, while the home Government has kept good faith, met their obligations and paid their way honourably and justly, the British Government deliberately put down their foot against anything that would affect their exchequer or that would be of any benefit to the people of this country.
I do not intend to go very much more into details. I think I have shown that this whole matter requires the investigation and the attention of the Oireachtas, and that a committee should be set up to inquire into it. It is of importance, and it is of great urgency to the people concerned, because they are, one might say, the poorest people in the country. They are paying their contributions, and they are getting no benefit. It looks as if the contributions they are paying are tantamount to a tax on their labour on the other side, and a new form of tax. There is one man in Mayo who has gone to considerable trouble in exposing, writing up in the newspapers, and trying to bring to light the terrible condition of affairs which exists and the terrible distress that these people are suffering from as a result of the negligence of the British Government to pay their honest debts. He brought before me a case of a man who had paid his stamps regularly since 1911, and during all that time he had very little, if any, claim on the fund, and he is for the last nine months laid up sick and incapable of earning his living or of working for the family and the home. He, at least, in all fairness, ought to be entitled, according to the Act, to at least twenty-six weeks payment at 15/- a week, but the unfortunate man has not got a cent from anybody. I mention that case as typical of cases all over County Mayo, and probably typical of other counties where such migratory labourers come from. Of course, as far as Mayo is concerned, these people are small tenant farmers, but that in itself should not automatically deprive them of the benefits of the Act, for with few exceptions the land, to all intents and purposes, is hardly capable of being tilled, and their meagre sources of revenue from their holdings would hardly keep them for two months in the year. They are compelled to go away at this time of the year, and they return some time after the harvest on the other side is saved. Most of them live within the Gaeltacht area, and I think it is true to say that these people are really the soul of the Gaeltacht. They are the backbone of the Irish nation; they have borne the brunt in every fight that there has been in this country, and now they find themselves in the predicament that there is nobody, it seems, to take an interest in them and to see that some arrangement is come to to remove these grievances.
Personally, I have no doubt that the British Government will give them very little thought, and that they have definitely made up their minds not to do so. If the home Government is a semblance of what these people always stood for and fought for; if they have any idea of what pertains to them as a Government, it is their duty to cater for these people, and if needs be to accept responsibility for them and to pay out of the Irish Exchequer the benefits they are entitled to, if not perpetually, at least temporarily, while reciprocal arrangements are being made. I doubt very much if there will ever be any result with regard to these reciprocal arrangements, because last week in the Dáil a question was asked by Mr. Lemass referring to reciprocal arrangements. Mr. McGilligan said that that had been turned down, and Mr. Lemass said: "I take it from the Minister's reply that the negotiations are still in progress," and the Minister said: "I have asked them to review the investigation of the matter, but that is all." So that you can see from that that there is very little hope of getting anything from the British Government or that they will pay what is due, the merest justice that these people are asking for.
