You have two alternatives, if you want the work well done. You can get the local work done by a new council facing a comparatively short period of office or you can face the doing of the work by a council that is seasoned by its work during the last three years and that will, I suggest, take a riper interest and, perhaps, a more placid interest in the proposals that will be passing before the Oireachtas for the purpose of remodelling the county councils, than if they were members of a new body without the experience of three years. I do not mean to say that present bodies would be entirely changed. I think I would feel on stronger grounds discussing matters with the present councillors continued in office than with new councillors who would be put into office now.
Such discussions as we have with local bodies will have to be begun pretty early. On the other hand, one of the reasons for introducing this measure is that the people giving service to local government at the present moment are doing it at a very considerable inconvenience, an inconvenience largely created by the awkwardness of the machinery they are using. It would be unreasonable to ask these men to incur the additional inconvenience of having to face elections at this time and for a short period of office. I feel that many of them who are valuable workers in local government would not face an election if it were held this year. I feel they would be prepared to criticise and make recommendations with regard to the measure that is being brought before us, but they would not be prepared to stay in with the present unwieldy machinery and give another year or one and a half years' service with local bodies. Knowing the work that many men do in connection with local government in the country, I very much sympathise with them.
As regards future legislation, if I am not out of order, I would like to say that our minds are pretty clear that the present system by which the board of health is entirely separated from the county council, although handling a very large part of the most important work of local government, and is a separate statutory body as regards finance, free entirely from the county council, is not satisfactory. Such a council as you will have in the future should be a council controlling all local government work. You have had in different counties experience of the county medical officers of health. In other counties you have had the development of the county surveyor as a county engineer, in many places not only giving his services to the county as a whole in all engineering matters, but also being made available for the urban districts.
Senator The McGillycuddy of the Reeks referred to the great overhead cost of local government in some areas. Our urban districts do require a type of person, both on the engineering side and on the medical side, of a calibre that they are not, from their own resources, able to afford. Just as the urban district gets the county medical officer of health to look after the medical work for the urban district, I look forward to the time when the urban districts, in so far as they are unable to provide from their own resources for first-class engineering advice, will have the county engineer giving his first-class engineering advice and the machinery under the county engineer securing for the urban districts that their very important engineering work will be done on thoroughly satisfactory lines. We do want as well that the secretary of a county council or some officer in that position will be given certain managerial powers, co-ordinating powers, over all officers of local bodies. In that way, the county council will have a fully co-ordinated, responsible and efficient machine to carry out whatever instructions the council may give in accordance with its policy.
There are many difficulties in the way. If we take a mental hospital committee, where there is not a joint body we have to consider to what extent the county council might not entirely replace the mental hospital committee. We have to consider whether committees working under a county council might be set up for special purposes and have co-opted members. We have very valuable material very often there to do public work and it is a question if we utilise election machinery, particularly where election machinery is liable to be tarnished by the introduction of Party politics, whether the services of these people may not be entirely lost to local government.
The de-urbanising of certain urban districts may very well be considered in the interests of economy and efficiency. A more satisfactory provision for the extending of an area under an urban authority may very well need to be considered, too. All these matters are very important matters and I think public opinion, particularly among those engaged in local government work, is very ripe for facing and considering all these things and getting another step along the road to wards improved local government, and the provision of satisfactory machinery that will stir up and make effective the capacity that is in the country for local government, and that we must retain in the country if we are going to build it up on proper lines.
Senator Comyn asked Senator Miss Browne who told her that the people did not want elections. Without perhaps, introducing the Party note into the discussion, I suggest to Senator Comyn that the secretary of the National Executive of the Fianna Fáil organisation said, at a very big convention in Navan a few weeks ago, that they would not be afflicted this year with local elections.
