The position in regard to this amendment is that Mr. Lemass, the Minister for Industry and Commerce, has been dealing with this matter personally. I know his intention was to set up a definite standard specification himself. In the Dáil he assured the House that, at least, the British standard specification for Portland cement would be maintained. There is no question whatever but that that standard can be maintained. I am in the position that I cannot say at the moment what is the standard of Belgian cement that is being imported in comparison with the British standard specification. What I do know is that the greater portion of our imported cement is coming from Belgium at present.
I could not bind myself at the moment to fix a standard specification on the British standard without having fuller information as to Continental standards. I think that in fact it is probable that all cement imported at present is of a higher standard than the British standard. It is the fact that for the past 30 years cement has been constantly improving in quality. That improvement is likely to continue so that the standard is bound to be higher in future. At present, as the Seanad knows, there is much competition and that in itself ensures that a fairly good standard will be maintained. I am not in a position to say definitely that all cement outside British cement that is being imported into the Free State at present is definitely of the British standard specification.
The intention is, so far as I understand, that after this Bill becomes law an import licence will be given and that a nominal fee would be charged for some time. I am in the position that if I accept this amendment I would be definitely placing upon merchants in the importation of their cement a condition which I fear might to some extent affect them and might tie them down as to the places, for example, where they might buy their cement or as to the quality they might import. Unless Senators can show that definite harm is being done at present by the importation of lower classes of cement, I am assuming that in fact practically all cement, even Continental cement, is of a higher quality than the British standard specification. If I were to accept the amendment in its present form I should have to tell every importer of cement in the country, immediately the Bill became law, that he must import cement of a certain specification. The Department of Industry and Commerce is not in a position at the moment and will not be for some time—if the policy which Mr. Lemass had in mind is to be carried out, to set up a standard specification—to ensure that the quality of imported cement will be at least as good as the British standard specification. To do that they would have simply to accept the British standard specification and say that that should be at least the minimum quality that the Department would allow merchants to import.
It is the policy of the Department to have a specification of their own, but unfortunately some time must elapse before the engineering associations and those interested can be got in touch with to devise a standard. It would be a matter for them to recommend to the Minister whether he should be satisfied with the British standard specification or whether he should go further. I feel that the actual making out of the specification may be rather troublesome, but at the moment the feeling in the Department is, and it has been Mr. Lemass's idea, that we should have our own specification and lay down that specification definitely. If this amendment were accepted by me it would, I fear, hold up operations in regard to the importation of cement, because we might not be in a position, in the event of our going ahead with our own specification, to state for some time what that specification would be. I have no fear that under the present provisions of the Bill the standard and quality of the cement cannot be sufficiently maintained, unless one is going to assume that the Minister has no interest whatever in maintaining the standard. He himself has stated that it is his intention to maintain at least the British standard specification. Unless it is assumed here in the Seanad that the Minister is wilfully going to allow people to manufacture cement under that standard, I cannot understand what the objection is to giving the Minister more discretion in the matter.
I should like to recall to the House also that there are definite provisions in the Bill which make it clear that there has to be a definite adherence to a proper specification. For example, in Section 12 (h) it is laid down that the Minister may specify in a manufacturing licence the nature and quality of the cement to be manufactured. I do not think it is likely that the Minister, having given his word in the matter, is likely to neglect to do that or, as Senators fear, he may decree one standard in respect of one licence and another standard in respect of some other licence. I do not think that is likely to arise.
The Minister when he does prescribe the quality of the cement will prescribe the same standard in each case. In Section 30 it is prescribed that it shall not be lawful for any person to import any cement into the Saorstát unless such cement is of the nature and quality specified in the import licence. It may happen that an importer at present is importing cement which may not be exactly of the standard specification that the Minister wishes to lay down but that the importer is ready to fall in with the Minister's wishes. Is the Minister arbitrarily to compel the importer to import cement of the quality that he specifies; or, if the importer satisfies the Minister that his cement is of good quality, but that in regard to a particular consignment, for example, there may be a particular position, is the Minister going to interfere with the importer's business generally or is he to be asked to lay down definitely in advance a specification that he has no proof that the importer may be able to reach? While I feel that it is the case that all cement imported from Continental countries is above the British specification, I am not in a position to say that the amendment can be accepted because I do not know that definitely. I feel it is the position but it may conceivably happen that people who will be importing cement in the next few months may already have made arrangements. If this amendment were accepted the Minister would be definitely bound in advance to refuse to allow these people to import that cement. I think he should be given some discretion in the matter.
It is prescribed in the section which I have already quoted, Section 30, that it shall not be lawful for any person to import cement into the Saorstát unless it is of the nature and quality specified in the import licence. That is a matter that can be gone into again in the Department but I would ask the Seanad to give us a further opportunity to consider this question. The Minister is pledged to see that a specification is set up. The only question is one of time, and whether we are now going to compel the Minister to do something which he may have to do in the next two or three weeks. His own feeling is that he should be given a little more time to endeavour to see whether he can set up a Saorstát specification.
Section 31 provides that every import licence must state the nature and quality of the cement proposed to be imported, so that as regards this licence full particulars will be published in the Official Gazette. Full particulars will be given in respect of each licence in regard to the nature and quality of the cement and other matters. I have no objection to the general principle of the amendment, but in view of the circumstances that I have explained—that the policy of the Department at the moment is to set up a specification of their own, and that they will not be in a position to name that specification immediately after the Bill becomes law—I would ask that the Minister, in view of the difficulties that would arise in regard to import licences, should be given a discretion. I would ask, in view of the difficulties which would arise in regard to import licences, that the Minister should be given a discretion. I can promise the House that an endeavour will be made to get this standard specification, which is sought, definitely published as soon as possible.