On Section 4. I should like to ask the Minister if he is quite satisfied that the bonds may be issued at par. The section provides that "such denominations (not less in any case than £1) and bearing interest at such rate (not less than 3 nor more than 4 per cent. per annum)." Is parity secured by these words in line 24? I only wanted to make sure if it was an obligation on the Minister not to issue bonds at less than par.
Land Bond Bill, 1934—Committee.
Question—"That the Title be postponed"—put and agreed to.
Sections 1 to 3 inclusive agreed to.
SECTION 4.
Would the Senator look at sub-section (3)?:
"When fixing under this section the rate of interest to be borne by any series of land bonds, the Minister for Finance shall have regard to the prices at which the latest issue of National Loan and previous issues of land bonds under this Act or the Land Bond Act, 1933 (No. 33 of 1933) are quoted on the Dublin Stock Exchange, to the intent that the rate of interest so fixed may (within the limits imposed by this section) be such as to secure that the market price of land bonds of the said series shall, for a reasonable time after the creation of the said series, be at or near par."
Is he satisfied? To my lay mind that seems to carry an obligation to issue at par.
The actual issue would be at par.
With regard to the remark made by the Minister, if the issue is to be fixed at par, I am afraid the suggestion made on the Second Stage will not be operative.
Not so far as the first issue of the bonds is concerned. That is the bonds issued prior to December 31, 1935.
Will the rules and regulations issued under the £10,000,000 issue apply?
The Minister may make rules.
There is no reason whatever if the credit of the country is 4 per cent. why 4 per cent. should not be fixed by the Government and the bonds issued then at any price which may be fixed with perfect facility and without upsetting the market, but if you issue them at certain rates of interest confusion will reign supreme.
In that connection we have National Loan at several rates of interest. The intention here is not to make an independent issue of land bonds but to make an order on which a substantial block would be issued. Take the case of the bonds issued up to December, 1931. We might assume there will be £3,000,000 of those—it may be more or less—but. say it may be £3,000,000 of the new land bonds in the first series. That might be followed after December, 1931 by a further block of new land bonds—second series. However, power is taken to consolidate any issue to make it more marketable.
I would ask the Minister to consider the suggestion. He can adjust from day to day the equities of the case. If you issue a series of bonds to-day the cash value may be very different and there would not be justice to those who received the bonds whereas if you had the powers to vary the rates of interest it would be different. I will ask the Minister to consider that aspect of finance.
As already indicated, I am prepared to do that, but it is not so very simple because the machinery of land purchase is fairly rigid and it all relates to the prices at which the bonds will be issued.
Sections 4 to 8, inclusive, put and agreed to.
SECTION 9.
I wonder if it is appropriate under Section 9 to raise this matter of financial accounts. The finance accounts will disclose the fact somewhere that these moneys and the surplus that is available under the pre-Treaty Acts will be shown as brought in distinctly in aid of Land Commission expenses. If not, will it be shown as falling into the general revenue?
It is shown under the head of Miscellaneous Revenue in the weekly Exchequer Returns.
It is not ear-marked distinctly as in aid of the Land Commission. It all has a bearing on the form of public accountancy and I hope the Minister is not going to let that matter slip. I do hope he is going to address his mind to the whole of this question of the form of public account keeping.
Sections 9 to 11 agreed to.
Question—"That the Title stand part of the Bill"—put and agreed to.
Question—"That the Bill be reported to the House"—put and agreed to.
The Seanad went out of Committee.